The ONLY Winged Scapula Fix THAT WORKS (step by step) | SmashweRx | Trevor Bachmeyer

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 2 янв 2025

Комментарии • 203

  • @Osprey850
    @Osprey850 Год назад +19

    I saw the chin-up bar in the thumbnail and thought that he was going to be hanging from it. I learned from a comment on another video that simply hanging can fix a winged scapula. I tried it yesterday, felt immediate relief and notice even more of a difference today. I suggest trying it.

  • @jonmposada7
    @jonmposada7 3 года назад +70

    As a Registered Occupational Therapist, this stuff is golden. God bless you brother 🙏🏼

    • @mmayojr
      @mmayojr Год назад

      Right because an occupational therapist is qualified to do what a PT does? Go show someone how to tie their shoes.

    • @jh-ys5zw
      @jh-ys5zw 11 месяцев назад

      cry @@mmayojr

    • @Soldier4life-H5
      @Soldier4life-H5 7 месяцев назад

      One of the stupidest things I've heard. OTs work on shoulder, elbow and hand rehabilitation as well. Educate yourself before yiu sound like a moron​@@mmayojr

  • @Arri11
    @Arri11 3 года назад +5

    Realest human on RUclips.
    So glad to be absorbing your content Sir.
    Love from New Zealand 💯

  • @coreycarpenter5976
    @coreycarpenter5976 3 года назад +48

    Anytime I have a problem, this is the guy I look up!

    • @abraham132100
      @abraham132100 3 года назад +1

      same

    • @1Lexicon
      @1Lexicon 3 года назад +1

      No cap. Real hacks, real results

    • @marco7838
      @marco7838 3 года назад

      do these exercises in the video help in getting rid and fixing a winged scapula? I don’t feel pain from it but every time I put my hand behind my body it sticks out. Please let me know if these help and how long it takes to recover roughly

    • @TheDailyWisecrack
      @TheDailyWisecrack 2 года назад

      Seriously

  • @TBIZ8325
    @TBIZ8325 3 года назад +13

    I can't believe this guy doesn't have a million subscribers . Best channel anywhere for getting over pain you are experiencing related to muscle skeletal issues. I wish this guy lived in my city so i could go to his clinic.

    • @mmayojr
      @mmayojr Год назад

      You think his channel is good then you should check out The Squat University

  • @wornshoes7975
    @wornshoes7975 3 года назад +8

    I've been watching your videos because of my daughter. She has scoliosis and I'm always looking for something that can ease her situation.

  • @ForeverYoungKickboxer
    @ForeverYoungKickboxer 3 года назад +109

    I see a winged scap video and I click it.

  • @renatosousa9971
    @renatosousa9971 3 года назад +27

    1:40 PEC MAJOR RELEASE - 2 minute hold
    2:06 LAT RELEASE - 2 minute hold
    2:29 RHOMBOID RELEASE - 2 minute hold
    2:45 PEC MINOR RELEASE - 2 minute hold
    2:55 LEVATOR RELEASE - 2 minute hold
    3:13 BANDED SCAPULA SWEEP - 3 x 15
    3:37 PROTRACTED BAND WALK - 3 x 15
    3:51 PUSH UP PUSH OUT - 3 x 15
    4:06 SAP - 3 x 15

  • @Adjektivity
    @Adjektivity 3 года назад +1

    I've been to several doctors and therapists looking for a cue to fix my lower back and shoulder. I was close to getting used to the pain, because none of them helped me out. Finally Mr. Bachmeyer fixed it. I cannot thank you enough, Sir.

  • @joshuaroberts6712
    @joshuaroberts6712 3 года назад +5

    Trevor is the man! all of his videos have been pulling me slowly out of my defunct body mechanics, starting to feel human again...who knew youtube would be better than my docs and PT combined..smh but thank you to trevor for keeping it real!

  • @hikerinpam33
    @hikerinpam33 3 года назад +2

    Dude, I can't even explain how great this video is.... Keep up the good work and addressing issues that nobody else does.... Thanks

  • @corysturgis6660
    @corysturgis6660 3 года назад +4

    Thank you Trevor. Been a fan for years

  • @matthewgonzalez646
    @matthewgonzalez646 3 года назад +2

    Great tips. I’ve been dealing with a winged scapula for YEARS. Can’t wait to give these a try. Appreciate the videos!

    • @quinnmacewen1010
      @quinnmacewen1010 3 года назад +2

      Has it improved

    • @s.j23
      @s.j23 3 года назад +1

      Has it improved

    • @MGK283
      @MGK283 3 года назад

      has it improved????

  • @christopherhauser1376
    @christopherhauser1376 5 месяцев назад +1

    I believe the initial tests are legit, this could help so many people. Great breakdown video!

  • @tinfro
    @tinfro 3 года назад +2

    Good to see you back.

  • @MinusMedley
    @MinusMedley 2 года назад

    Thanks for confirming my suspicions

  • @ericmckelvey1264
    @ericmckelvey1264 3 года назад +1

    I've suffered with scapular winging for over 10 years. Like even saying that is unreal to me. For me to do this in going to need to join a gym. Either that or see a functional doctor for assistance. Thanks for this man

    • @marco7838
      @marco7838 3 года назад

      do these exercises in the video help in getting rid and fixing a winged scapula? I don’t feel pain from it but every time I put my hand behind my body it sticks out. Please let me know if these help and how long it takes to recover roughly

  • @AlejandroGonzalez-wo5fk
    @AlejandroGonzalez-wo5fk 3 года назад +1

    Youre the best fitness youtuber ever

  • @dmmaster9357
    @dmmaster9357 3 года назад +2

    I felt my muscels the First time After 3 years back there in my shoulder, gonna do this every day hopefully it becomes better
    Thank you man

    • @marco7838
      @marco7838 3 года назад

      do these exercises in the video help in getting rid and fixing a winged scapula? I don’t feel pain from it but every time I put my hand behind my body it sticks out. Please let me know if these help and how long it takes to recover roughly

    • @maryshepherd5736
      @maryshepherd5736 2 года назад

      ​@@marco7838 Have you been doing the exercises and is yours better? I've had a winged scapula over 10 years and went to PT for it. PT didn't "cure" it, but watching this video makes me motivated to try again because Trevor gave a better explanation and more exercises.

    • @bruht9921
      @bruht9921 Год назад

      @@maryshepherd5736 did it work?

  • @danielflowers1985
    @danielflowers1985 3 года назад

    Cuz your stretches really work. You helped me free up my stiff knee by stretching my psoas. I never knew. Bless you

  • @apracity7672
    @apracity7672 3 года назад +5

    THANK YOU for keeping the comment section on

  • @smodoosh
    @smodoosh 3 года назад +2

    You’re the best, thank you for all the time and effort you’ve put forth over the years. I look up to you sir.

  • @DaskaiserreichNet78
    @DaskaiserreichNet78 8 месяцев назад

    Thank you for al your helpful rehab and prehab Videos.

  • @STG642
    @STG642 Год назад

    Really detailed information.......best one I have ever seen.....Thanks a lot......and you got a Great Physique there👍👍

  • @jeremywininger694
    @jeremywininger694 2 года назад

    Been using your videos Trev to try to find out why I have insane pain and tightness in my bicipital aponeurosis. I cant do pull OR push workouts anymore. I tried some of his stuff and have been doing lots of scap exercises and stretches. And now I can say that I have pain in my shoulder that I've never had before. Thanks Trev!

  • @jonnyeom
    @jonnyeom 2 года назад

    Thanks so much.
    this has been the most comprehensive guide that helped my entire shoulder structure.

  • @anmaralharbi5341
    @anmaralharbi5341 3 года назад +5

    4:11 if u don’t know what perpendicular is u have a problem 😂😂❤️

  • @deansutherland6506
    @deansutherland6506 3 года назад +10

    Trevor have you got anything on "lateral Scapula winging" where the trapezius is the issue not the serratus. Medial scapula winging seems to be the only condition of 'winging" RUclipsrs cover".
    Spinal accessory nerve not the serratus anterior nerve innervation.
    The blades flare perfectly symmetrical - lateral and out on both
    Sides.

    • @my7k169
      @my7k169 10 месяцев назад

      Did you find any fix?

  • @coreyfrasca2073
    @coreyfrasca2073 3 года назад +1

    awesome video man. helping me recover from the weakness in my scapula from a pinched nerve in my neck. I just want to be able to train heavy again 😫

    • @imsafewithmusic
      @imsafewithmusic 3 года назад +1

      How did it go for you man?

    • @Jp1904lt
      @Jp1904lt Год назад

      exactly what happened to me!

  • @magnetmountain33
    @magnetmountain33 Год назад

    Bruv, this stuff is gifted next level!
    Truly fantastic work highly innovative. Well done mate you’re a credit to the industry. I only hope that if they don’t reward you social media will !

  • @therealmattchong
    @therealmattchong 3 года назад +7

    I don’t know what’s more majestic, this video or Trev’s beard hmmmm haha

  • @dalemass1857
    @dalemass1857 2 месяца назад

    Very helpful, but perpendicular is at a 90 degree angle to the referenced plane (4:06). You were parallel to the band. 🔥 thanks again for the tips 💪

  • @veloxversutusvigilans4133
    @veloxversutusvigilans4133 Год назад +1

    Wing and scap right side.. right shoulder pain, right elbow pain. Right shoulder rolls forward and down... have Thoracic outlet issues and get botox to relax the muscles around the clavicle and put less pressure on nerves. The upper portion of pec doesn't really work due to botox. I'm going to work at following this video for a week or two and come back with some follow up.

    • @kimianderson5352
      @kimianderson5352 9 месяцев назад

      How did it go?

    • @kimianderson5352
      @kimianderson5352 9 месяцев назад

      Have exactly the same issue but on my left side. Rolls forward and winged scapula on that same side

    • @selmonbheoi203
      @selmonbheoi203 7 месяцев назад

      I have elbow pain like hell does it work ?

    • @veloxversutusvigilans4133
      @veloxversutusvigilans4133 7 месяцев назад

      It went well... traveled to the DR in Feb.. lean and strong and feeling great... back to training... nope.. umb hernia... I've had a few months off... just following women who try to correct diastis recti after pregnancy... and walking... hernia hasn't been an issue for 3 weeks with new found pelvic floor and core strength.... so I'm heading back into training and simultaneously working on the scap, shoulder, and elbow. Weak as shit... but everything is getting better daily... including strength and pain... it just sucks that At 44 I got close to the best shape of my life and then a little hernia poked out.

    • @selmonbheoi203
      @selmonbheoi203 7 месяцев назад

      @@veloxversutusvigilans4133 damn man hope you get better , so basically it works if you stick to it right ?

  • @irenechaps5721
    @irenechaps5721 3 года назад +2

    Yup that’s exactly it thank you so much been fighting this problem for so long! You are awesome

  • @grahamcallaghan5429
    @grahamcallaghan5429 Год назад

    Those releases 🤌 amazzzzing!!

  • @dj_Davepz
    @dj_Davepz 3 года назад

    Great to have you back Trev, we appreciate you brother 🙏🔥😎

  • @flexjay87
    @flexjay87 3 года назад +1

    Thanks again for the info. I had rotator cuff surgery 9 months ago, but i have been experiencing scapula pain lately at night, and sometimes much of the day, along with pain going down to the elbow sometimes. Think i'll give these tips a try !

  • @Degsta001
    @Degsta001 3 года назад

    The pec minor stretch was exactly what I needed. Great cues too.

  • @joewhisney
    @joewhisney 3 года назад

    Your videos crush, or a better term is smash. Thank you for the effort and cranking out valuable and immediately applicable content!

  • @Phoebeokyas7292
    @Phoebeokyas7292 4 месяца назад

    This is amazing. I’m in a wheelchair and I was wondering if you could recommend some exercises I can do for my winged scapula. Thanks

  • @brettl.7133
    @brettl.7133 3 года назад +2

    Awesome Trev!
    You've helped me so much over the last few years!
    Great videos. 👌🙌. Keep up the great work dude!

  • @joshwong5008
    @joshwong5008 3 года назад +2

    Do I need to do on both side?
    Should I do it every day?
    Do I need to be on a caloric surplus in order to gain result or should I be in a deficit or diet doesn't play a big role in fixing winging scapula?
    I don't have a band, can I do some other alternative workout to replace the band exercise?
    Should I experience any pain while doing the workout?
    Should I continue those exercises even when the scapula is fixed?
    Sorry if I ask too many questions! Haha

  • @subchan6595
    @subchan6595 3 года назад

    Thing is : Its important to identify the CAUSE of the winged scapular. For instance I took a fall skiing years ago and as I was flying forward through the air I decided to take the fall on the side of my left shoulder, thinking my chunky shoulders could handle the hit. Well - I ended up with a number shoulder which after 6 weeks turned into a frozen shoulder. Had xrays and nothing was damaged seriously. But over time Im convinced I developed calcium in the capsule. I tried get capsule water blasted so to speak to free it up - and tried every band exercise on youtube. If I lie on my back, with both hands behind my head, I can take my right elbow down 90 degress and touch the groud, but left arm I cannot touch ground. The scapula issue I have is therefore a result of this problem with my shoulder because its obviously impinging my scapu;ar from working properly and over time its goten worse - and therefore any of these exercises in your vid just wont help. Do you have any vids on frozen shoulders ?

    • @corysturgis6660
      @corysturgis6660 3 года назад +1

      Work the different planes of your rotator cuff. Barbell, bands, cable etc

  • @valeriaff1
    @valeriaff1 3 года назад

    Very good exercises. I am trying them now and hopefully it will also help with scoliosis and the upper pain

  • @asablack1364
    @asablack1364 3 года назад +1

    Could you do a video on building BIG and bulletproof shoulders? Thanks.

  • @Mr7qn
    @Mr7qn 3 года назад

    Good information, thanks again Trev !

  • @r00t17
    @r00t17 4 месяца назад +3

    what a fucking video, this is the only winged scapula video that actually fixed it for me! I really appreciate it!

    • @lostimx
      @lostimx 2 месяца назад

      How long did it take / did you have the problem?

    • @andrewevans7992
      @andrewevans7992 2 месяца назад

      @@lostimxyes we need to know.. my right side is fucked, it’s definitely the scapula, it’s been getting better/worse over the years

  • @magnetmountain33
    @magnetmountain33 Месяц назад

    Again, thank you bruv. What do you think of move you show the program and the pricetag???

  • @codylimongello
    @codylimongello 3 года назад

    I’m extremely grateful for this guidance and I gotta say thank you

  • @christophervaca7116
    @christophervaca7116 3 года назад

    The lat release stretch was super helpful! Just what I needed

  • @DunderMufflinMuscle
    @DunderMufflinMuscle 2 года назад

    Wow! Game changer. Thank you sir

  • @JackCkiller
    @JackCkiller 3 года назад +1

    Great content, the best out there! You just fixed my midback in 2 days of stretching after I could barely move.
    Thank you for existing, if it werent for you my shouders, low back wouldn't be the same.
    First place I go once I get injured.

  • @tonyrockstudio7334
    @tonyrockstudio7334 3 года назад

    Thanks Trev. Great as always

  • @anmaralharbi5341
    @anmaralharbi5341 3 года назад

    Can you post a video about the stretches
    We should/shouldn’t do

  • @sant0s93
    @sant0s93 3 года назад

    Thank you very much Trevor

  • @kokoti111
    @kokoti111 2 года назад

    thanks man,needed this

  • @gmasstudios
    @gmasstudios 8 месяцев назад +1

    So for the second one which do I know is the bad scapula?

  • @swosh303
    @swosh303 3 месяца назад

    is actually better this video guys you compare to other

  • @KEAWE7
    @KEAWE7 3 года назад

    Thanks Trev, your videos help me a lot!

  • @marksusman9640
    @marksusman9640 3 года назад

    Always good info

  • @unogazzy84
    @unogazzy84 7 месяцев назад

    It worked for me the first time. I tried pushing against the wall like this 0:31 after all the exercices and my right shoulder blade hardly moved. I did before and it popped out. How many weeks do I have to do this to get rid of the winged scapula?

  • @Mrhorrible97
    @Mrhorrible97 3 года назад

    Thanks bro I really needed this.

  • @rafaeldediego5835
    @rafaeldediego5835 9 месяцев назад +1

    How long did you guys do this consistently to see results?

  • @UnitedBJJCobourg
    @UnitedBJJCobourg 3 года назад +6

    Thanks Trev. Ive been one month almost on level one of the shoulders. My hip is pretty jackef and have been running some of your stuff for that. Any chance you might do a 3 step hip program as well? Thanks again for being so giving on here. Ousss.

  • @donaldthomson8965
    @donaldthomson8965 4 месяца назад

    i dont have time for this stuff i got work to do every day starting 4.30 in morning repairing machinery and i finish just on dark then i start doing inside projects till 11.00 at night but this Winged Scapula a real pain every morning so i have to do what i do every day is work to ease the pain

  • @MRGNRLLNS
    @MRGNRLLNS 3 года назад

    I can’t stand CrossFit.... but I love this dude... I’m conflicted.

  • @txlespaul30
    @txlespaul30 2 года назад +1

    I love the protocols that Trevor comes up with, but I haven't seen any recommendations on how often to do these mobilization drills. Has anyone got any information on that?

  • @daryno4267
    @daryno4267 3 года назад +2

    Torso parallel to the band?

  • @devonchejameson6231
    @devonchejameson6231 3 года назад

    Some wonderful content

  • @Brian-cn8ef
    @Brian-cn8ef 11 месяцев назад

    Been two months since I realized I somehow unknown injured my right shoulder. Had aching pain in my shoulder to my arm. Then realized my scalpia was winging and my arm was hard to lift over head and without any pain but did have stinging burning when reaching down kind of stretching in the lat area which is now gone. I have no pain now and can do a full back workout not as heavy as normal but decent weight. I’m going to try your exercises and hopefully cures this sht. Was doing pt but stopped do to I can do the same sht they had me doing at home less 35$ a pop.

  • @JAMIE_ATKINS
    @JAMIE_ATKINS 3 года назад

    Another AWESOME video!

  • @tarp11z
    @tarp11z 4 месяца назад

    Wow... thank you!

  • @deanwebb4816
    @deanwebb4816 2 года назад +2

    Hey there. Pretty sure this has to do with a long thoracic nerve issue as well. When I do these stretches I build tingles and a feeling of numbness down my arm. Should I continue stretching / strengthening ??

  • @TCedward
    @TCedward 10 месяцев назад

    AHAHAHAHA I died when he said if you don't know what perpendicular is, you have a problem- that was funny

  • @EduardBadea-t9n
    @EduardBadea-t9n 6 месяцев назад

    Should you use the exercises for one arm only?

  • @poohead879
    @poohead879 7 месяцев назад

    What do you do if one side of the Scapula is clearly higher than the other?

  • @Teodorazhrnv
    @Teodorazhrnv 2 месяца назад

    Damn … we need more people like you, man..👏🏻🫶🏻

  • @barkleyhunt9004
    @barkleyhunt9004 3 года назад

    Dude you rock!

  • @AlBasrawi98
    @AlBasrawi98 Год назад

    I feel like the exercises are the one that will actually progress to anything. The stretches don't do anything by themselves but maybe prepare your body for the exercises that come after.

  • @euge9660
    @euge9660 2 месяца назад

    can i do this before strength workout?

  • @truestrength-oz5kk
    @truestrength-oz5kk 3 года назад +1

    Do you do all the exercises in one go ?

  • @kouta562
    @kouta562 8 месяцев назад

    Hi, do you have to do this on both side or just injury one? Thanks

  • @MBeezy815
    @MBeezy815 2 года назад

    Thank you! Started doing these yesterday. Have you seen cases where a winged scapula causes issues with pec activation on the same side? That's what I'm battling with

    • @evanbrown7851
      @evanbrown7851 2 года назад +1

      I’ve been dealing with the same thing the past couple months with scapular winging and the loss of pec activation as well. Has it gotten any better for you?

    • @MBeezy815
      @MBeezy815 2 года назад

      @@evanbrown7851 slightly...I can now feel *something* in my left pec, but I think it's nerve, not muscle honestly. I've been going to a chiropractor/PT shop and it's been helping a bit. I appear to have thoracic outlet syndrome....and will be also following up with a neurologist

    • @evanbrown7851
      @evanbrown7851 Год назад

      @@MBeezy815 Hey I hope you’re doing well. I was wondering how you’ve been doing with this? I’m still dealing with this and was wondering if you’re doing better now.

    • @MBeezy815
      @MBeezy815 Год назад

      @@evanbrown7851 unfortunately not...left front delt still takes the load from my pec. I actually went to see a neurologist but because there were no visual muscular deficiencies, he thinks I'm fine (but I think he is young and inexperienced). He wasn't listening about my complaints of pain, etc and was trying to tell me that a "little" asymmetry is normal... I was able to get him to agree to move forward with an EMG so hopefully that provides some insight.

    • @MBeezy815
      @MBeezy815 Год назад

      @@evanbrown7851 try some of the pec/shoulder stretches in this video. I've been doing these recently as well
      ruclips.net/video/WWEYP0CFmRQ/видео.html

  • @seancarlopiodo2685
    @seancarlopiodo2685 Год назад

    shoulder impingement + clicking and scapula wing on my right side 😢

  • @tipceo
    @tipceo 11 месяцев назад

    I am building my gym inspired by your videos, can you please link to the bar and cage that is shown in your videos?

  • @andytheindividual3862
    @andytheindividual3862 3 года назад +1

    Golden!

  • @bagface1599
    @bagface1599 Год назад

    Confused: For Hack 5 - I feel a really deep tight stretch only when my free arm is down and not pointing up.

  • @arturoreyes4583
    @arturoreyes4583 Год назад

    Will this cause tingling in the upper chest closer to the sholder, under arm and index finger?

  • @jianqiangzhangchina1007
    @jianqiangzhangchina1007 3 месяца назад

    Which muscle does Hack 9 Straight Arm Pressdown work on? thanks

  • @student-co3yx
    @student-co3yx 2 года назад

    Thanks Doctor, i have a question please: for how long/ how frequently should we do these exercises ? Thanks in advance.

  • @rachelhawkins2084
    @rachelhawkins2084 3 года назад

    PLEASE ADDRESS THIS:
    I've notice in almost all of your winged scapula videos, you say that the drills work for pretty much everything except a long thoracic nerve dysfunction.
    MY QUESTION TO YOU:
    What do we do if we our winged scapula is caused by long thoracic nerve dysfunction? Can you please make a video on this topic?

    • @perry3175
      @perry3175 3 года назад

      you go to a fkn doctor thats what you do

  • @shaniniazi4448
    @shaniniazi4448 Год назад

    Can I do these moves prior to my workout??

  • @justanotherguy4178
    @justanotherguy4178 2 года назад

    Is it normal to still feel triceps and lats work a little

  • @beckykay9178
    @beckykay9178 3 года назад

    You rock, Trevor! Thanks for these videos. Not sure how often you get to check out these comments, but I’m hoping you might answer my question here? I’m assuming that these are ongoing exercises that must be done until the imbalance is corrected. But I am also looking at one of your videos for correcting flat feet and I’m not certain if I need to do the fascia release exercises regularly or if one session following your directions will do it. Please clarify? Thank you, man. You’re a godsend!

  • @jessepower9036
    @jessepower9036 Месяц назад

    How many times a week?

  • @mystikyogi
    @mystikyogi 3 года назад

    Great information, I want to know how long it will take to improve 100% like before and I can start doing bench press again without impingement?

  • @leecarroll6910
    @leecarroll6910 Год назад

    This was a very helpful video. It has helped eliminate bad pain I was having at night, but the winging doesn’t seem to be changing/getting better. How long does it typically take for the shoulder blade to align properly? I’ve been doing these stretches and exercises for about 10 days.

    • @aj_36081
      @aj_36081 Год назад

      I’ve read that it can take up to 6-8 months. Keep going at it

  • @samibakir
    @samibakir 3 года назад +1

    Hi, EVERY video I have seen that you made is amazing. May I ask for two things, PLEASE! 1) Get a good quality microphone... it is a shame for this wealth of information not to be documented properly! 2) For this video, would you please put a PDF file or do it again as many parts are not very clear for me and I do not want to pass it by.
    Thanks a million for your time and effort

  • @caseycain6681
    @caseycain6681 2 года назад

    For the last year and a half I have had shooting pain originating from my scapula and down. Feels like a horrible knot under my scapula and I can’t take a deep breath without feeling a pinch. I have done what the PTs tell me but I still cannot Olympic lift as the pain is worst when I pronate my shoulders. I have started to wonder if it is derived from my scapular winging.

  • @formodius
    @formodius 3 года назад +1

    Imma order some bands just to fix my winged scapula

    • @marco7838
      @marco7838 3 года назад

      do these exercises in the video help in getting rid and fixing a winged scapula? I don’t feel pain from it but every time I put my hand behind my body it sticks out. Please let me know if these help and how long it takes to recover roughly