When I saw this, I thought, no way I'm watching an hour-and-a-half video. Not only did I watch it, but I hung on every word. I learned a lot. Thanks for all your efforts.
I believe the content of this video could help new hobbyist that are considering a lathe purchase. Actually seeing them function in testing was great. Thanks for sharing it!
As youtube doesn't like long format video's I'm making sure to stay around UNTIL THE END. I've seen a couple of these "small lathe review" vids and this one is pretty cool.
RUclips doesn't "not like long format videos" .. users have to ration their view-minutes to take in all the assorted content in their limited free time. "The algorithm" responds to viewer demands. As much as I love 3d printing and lathes, I don't have 1.5 hours to invest in getting the executive overview. Chapter marks would help, as would a condensed 20-minute summary video... with link to the longer "director's cut" if you will.
That's not even entirely true anymore. You haven't heard about the "sleep viewtime meta"? Super long formats like stream vods or recombined into 1 video episodic series are doing super good on the platform. This is long enough to start entering that realm. It is true that there's a few gaps in lengths that perform poorly. The prime real estate is shortd
RUclips loves "watch time", so so many channels now are making >hour long videos that are full of fluff, they maybe have 15 minutes of actual content in them and the rest is filler, just to get their watch time numbers up - it's driving me nuts
@gorak9000 that's the completely wrong way of achieving that... If people click off because you made boring content you don't get watchtime at all. I'm not sure about what you are describing because none of the channels I watch seem to be doing that. I do know that you can manipulate the metric after the fact if you use the youtube editor to remove the boring parts of the video some time after the upload.
Thanks! I have access to nice tools thru a MakerSpace but I am curious about these incredibly low cost machines. This was obviously a massive amount of work so here is a small expression of thanks. Love your channel.
I saw a really neat set of power tool projects, including a lathe that were 3D printed, but the infill was concrete. Basically he printed the parts and then filled them with concrete afterwards and went through several iterations of design and made the plans free. It's a neat idea for the types of functional prints he was making (e.g. drill press, lathe, etc.).
I would love to see the electronic lead screw conversion on the PM machine as well as turning dimensional parts from 3d printed parts. This is a very informative video. Thanks.
I wake up in the middle of the night quite often, and have to get up early for work (construction) so I started watching at around 1:30 AM, but did finish the video at 5:20 (fell back asleep a few times), but I loved it! I am starting to learn more about CNC/metalwork, so this was awesome in addition to your 3D printing videos. Would definitely like to see that electronic lead screw update. Also good to know I can spend 3 grand and get a very capable lathe with a DRO!
So well Shown! I for one think you should start a secondary channel of lathe turning /machining! Well Done I bet your grandpa Would be proud! It really shows how these 2 machines are night and day apart.
In the realm of small lathes, you can actually go smaller and get really very nice lathes. You mentioned your grandfather's watchmaker lathe. There are two similar-size lathes currently available that are able to do serious work: the Taig and the Sherline. I have a Taig, and I think it would probably have stood up really well in this video. For about $900, you can get the 5C collet chuck version, which has a 1.125" spindle bore. I have an ER40 version (0.79" spindle bore) with a 1-horsepower brushless motor, and it never fails to impress me that the 15-long (overall!) lathe does such good work. A couple weeks ago, I turned down the head and most of the length of a 3/4" grade 8 bolt. With a carbide insert tool, the lathe made relatively easy work of the interrupted cut in hardened steel. When I was done, I picked the whole thing up and turned it upside-down over a trash can to clean out the metal chips. Thanks for going in to so much detail in your video. I think it will give a lot of would-be lathe owners some good perspective on what they're getting in to.
This is a very good point. There are also lathes like the Emco Compact 5 (Austrian made) and Hobbymat/Prazimat models (old communist East German made and probably being the 'inspiration' for the modern Chinese mini lathe) that are significantly higher quality and more rigid than Chinese mini lathes. In the cases where people absolutely need a small lathe and can't fit even a 9x22 lathe, these can be found on the used market and are generally a good buy.
Ha, I thought the title said building a lathe. Watched the whole thing before realizing. Super helpful video, I have considered buying a small lathe, or building that concrete filled 3d printed one I saw.
I have next to no idea what I just watched, but I watched the entire video because I enjoy your channel. The message you present is very clear, you get what you pay for / buy once cry once.
Appreciate the time and effort put in to answer questions I think a lot of hobbyist have. It definitely changed my opinion as far as the route to take. Thank you.
Great review on both machines. I personally own the PM727 Mill and have enjoyed the convenances of its accuracies and size for my simple projects. Now I am looking at this PM's 1030v lathe as a space saver over my South Bend 10K x 48". I love my SB 10K, but it is a horizontal drive and being 48" just takes up too much space in my garage. I normally turn much shorter stock and therefore this 1022 will fit my needs much better. Thanks for the comparison although I personally would never have considered anything like the Vevor product, but your video gave me a great look at the PM lathe. I will be in contact with Matt soon and will let him know I watched your video. Thanks again, Bill from Colorado
You make a very good point about electronic lead screws in these machines. The components for that have gotten so cheap, they might even be cheaper to manufacture than a gear-based system. I'm actually a bit surprised that someone like PM isn't already doing that.
I'm not awfully surprised that one tool costing more than 4x what another costs also performs considerably better; but actually seeing the difference in build quality and machining capabilities was fascinating. Great video, thanks taking the time to make it, and for sharing your insights and explanations.
More of this. Really good video. I come from an engineering and machinist background first, and still relatively new to 3dp. I've noticed so much in the 3D world that seems to be 3D printed for the sake of 3D printing, even though a different material would do the job way better. The combination of additive and subtractive and plastic and metal where each are best is the real deal. Just a matter of right tool for the job. What both fields have in common, is that the lowest end machines can be made to perform fairly well, but are probably not worth the time, outside of just being good learning experiences. I have a mediocre 9x20 lathe, a nice 17x40, and a truly crappy little 7x14 (used in my mobile shop for trackside work) but which is still useful. Best thing I ever did to it was to axe the compound and thus greatly increase the rigidity (and a small STEEL qctp setup). Good luck with the little lathe. You'll need it as much as I do with 3DP right now. Cheers :) p.s. I look forward to seeing your 1022 lathe. I've been thinking about replacing my 920 with either it or the 1127.
I saw a 7x10 mini lathe at harbor freight the other day, and was shocked at how small it looked in person vs in photos. It really drove home how much smaller the practically usable volume is compared to the "it will technically fit" dimensions.
I've been working with desktop sized lathes for small parts for ~25 years now. The harbor freight lathe is what is commonly referred to as the 7x lathe, it's imported from china and rebranded by a large number of companies. It's.. fine. If you don't need much precision, speed, or power, you can do a lot with it. It can be user upgraded and tuned to do decent small/light work. Very small lathes have great usefulness for a ton of people, and can be a dirt cheap way to get into the hobby and learn. If anyone happens to just need something very small for lighter work and doesn't want to spend much, check out Taig. They're extremely well made, basically bulletproof, and very cheap. Very much designed to be upgraded DIY style. I've had one in the shop for 20+ years and still love it for really small precision stuff.. but I've turned 2" titanium on it too, albeit with great difficulty. For anything "normal shop sized" this video is spot on, precision matthews is the way to go.
Man, you really knocked it out of the park this time! I couldn't believe you'd review two lathes to settles that issue.🤯 I loved the review, as always it was very well thought out and performed. I have a MicroMark 7x14, and although a different brand, it looks identical. I recently replaced the spindle, spindle bearings (taper kind), motor (1hp servo), scraped every surface by hand (had a 0.005" bow in the bed), CNCd it, and 3D printed all new covers for it, and yes, the spindle and backplate are one single piece. Of course I would love more machining content, I think most metal machinists also dabble in 3D printing nowadays, and viceversa. If I were to be greedy, and be able to ask for even more goodness from your already excellent channel, I'd say try filming in 4K. I'm sure you have already evaluated that option, and you have your reasons. I'm just throwing out there as a wish list item to make your channel even more compelling. Good job as always. Ciao, Marco.
The Grizzly G0602 is essentially the same lathe as the PM, for less money, with slightly different paint colors. If you're patient, they come up on CL or marketplace used for less than half of new cost regularly too
A good example of "you get what you pay for" thanks for info and review. I've been looking at a PM and I now know that I'm spending the extra money in a good way. It would be nice to see print comparisons between the X1C a Plus4 when it comes to abs,nylon,pps ect.
Hi! I loved this video. Back when I first came across your channel, it was for one of the videos where you were printing way covers for your mill. As it turns out, I have the big brother to your mill (the PM-833TV), and a smaller brother to your lathe (the PM 12-28). I actually have lathe envy...I'd much rather have YOUR lathe, but my 12-28 runs on 110, weighs less than half as much, and accommodates all the jobs I've had for it so far. When I start feeling inadequate, I mill something on my mill. Seriously though...in the beginning, I started with a smaller lathe...my first lathe was a Lathemaster 9x30. And even that was a giant compared to the VEVOR. Like you, I get folks all the time asking about those mini lathes. And what I ultimately tell them is that if they're only ever going to turn brass or aluminum, and usually less than 3/4", they'll probably be able to live with the cheap mini-lathes...but any larger, and they'll be unhappy with that choice! I'm sure you've already seen Clough42's videos regarding his electronic leadscrew! I'm certain that could be adapted easily to the PM 10-22! There's certainly no need to re-invent the wheel, and he's refined that quite a bit at this point.
Brilliant video, thank you 👍 I'm considering a small hobby lathe, and this has really helped me to hold on, save up some more money, make a bit more space, and get a "proper" lathe 😉 Keep up the great content 👍
As someone who is big on ambition but small on space, videos like this are extremely helpful in knowing what to look for. So many people just gloss over the small equipment and proceed to tell you how much they love whichever full-sized machine they have. If we all had the space for a full-sized metal working lathe, then I think we'd all have one we love already. Sadly, this is reality and there are constraints.
An electronic lead screw would be a good reason to buy that PM, especially if the price could be around the same. I'd love to see a video of a conversion. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this video!
This has to be the best demo of 'you get what you pay for' I have seen. I really appreciated the dual camera workpiece + controls shots (I do not recall seeing anyone else do that) and you showing the Vevor's lack of rigidity resulting in a cut that was changing diameters. Please do more on 3D print then get precision with a lathe or mill where needed!
Great video. Have wanted to get into metal work, but this video showed I have a lot to learn before pulling the trigger. Any recommendations for how to learn would be appreciated.
I’ve been looking at getting a lathe, and this was the best comparison video I’ve seen. Watched the whole thing, and learned so much. For me, I’m just gonna keep saving and get a Precision Matthews with DRO.
I really appreciate your detailed video. I also bought a vevor 7x14 lathe and yes it's taking some time and in fact I'm still upgrading it just because I've enjoyed building it into a proper machine. I personally couldn't afford a $3,000 machine but I would love to have one. So for me the $500 7-in was the only option but thank you very much for this video. It's been very educational and I hope one day to be able to purchase my own precision Matthews 10-in machine.
My first machine tool was the little machine shop mini lathe. The motor is much stronger, will do .020 cuts in steel, though chatter can be an issue due to rigidity. Watching this video was great as it showed how small my problems are in comparison to the Vevor.
I have been wanting a small hobby lathe forever. Was considering the Vevor or maybe trying my luck on Craigslist. This has definitely made me seriously consider that Precision Matthiews, a brand I hadn't even hear of before.
I picked up a Vevor MX-S716G recently as a first lathe. Looks like the same casting and cross slide as the one you tested, but different motor configuration. The motor seems a lot stronger and smoother than yours, but it's a brushless motor that's built into the spindle, so longevity is questionable. A lot of the issues that you ran into were definitely there: the whole thing was packed with oily grinding dust, the cross slide gibs can't be adjusted, and the tool post height issue is the same. I did swap the fixed tool post for a QC post already, so that's a big improvement. The biggest issue I'm having is that the carriage saddle has slop in it, and much like your cross slide, I can't find an adjustment point where it's snug without binding the whole thing up. That makes it chatter like crazy. Still, for the price, it's been a fun little project and I've learned a lot. For the $500 I paid I think it's worth it for the education before stepping up to something nicer.
It's a great comparison for someone like me with a passing interest in buying a lathe, who might end up buying a cheaper one not knowing the limitations. Having said that. the vevor is still significantly cheaper and frees up funds for other things - if you are only doing very basic things with it. What I got out of this, is I should probably pony up for a proper unit if I end up doing it, otherwise the frustrations would turn me off the hobby. Cheap 3d printers turned me off 5 yrs ago, and its only now with relatively affordable reliable and easy to use ones from Bambu that i've come back in, and its reignited a love for the hobby.
Great long-for video with real world details a user would need to determine if one of these machines would work for them. I'm not even in the market for a lathe and sat through the entire video. Great work Rich!
Having been intimidated completely during an "intro to metalwork" course at a local makerspace, I went toward 3D printing instead and have had a blast. I still have hopes for learning lathes and mills "one day" and liked your presentation and affect so much, I'm going to stick around and see what you can show me to help up my 3-D printing game! And I'll still watch any future metal videos with interest. Thanks for a great video!
Those small lathes are sold with different names, mine, cost almost the double but had more accessories and better assemble and motor, after spending weeks working on it, I can turn titanium and get good results, but the most important thing that I didn’t knew is that for a underpower machine we need good tools so I end up spending 10x more the cost of the lathe on them. To turn steel on it it’s necessary to install a pc fan to help cool the motor and a thermistor on the shell or it will burn because it’s cooled by internal blades that depend on the speed, since the speed will be slow it will melt after a couple of hours.
Just a tip for the hardened rod on your 1440. Try some ceramic inserts for the hardened layer. Expensive. But you won't tear up your cnmg's. Nice review. I have a vevor 8x16. And mine came in far better condition than yours. However it's not a steel cutting lathe. Plastic. Brass and light aluminum work only. Also works great for pool cues, and trimming cases for reloading. Everything else goes on my PM 1440sm2v. Nice video again Sir.
I don't know a darn thing about Lathes. I do 3D printing and somehow found this vid. I have to say... this was a great concept for presentation, and definitely increases my interest in subtractive manufacturing. I'll check out some more videos on RUclips
They have come a long ways from 13 inch Southbend I learned on. It must of weighed at least 1200lbs or more. Nice looking machine! Looks like a challenging project to take on, the language barrier can be difficult. I still have South Bend we got for free with 38 " length and center holder set up in my father's business where he was using it to rechamber rifles. It seems a bit strange, I gave him his first lessons on using it back in the early 90's. He then learned the skills of precision rifle barrel making and rechamber work from a master machinist who taught him all the details he needed to learn over the next two years. He was quick to pick up the highly intricate work one needed to do to rechamber the rounds for new cartridges. He was quite accomplished at it, building some of the best long distance rifles one could buy. Wow, that machine no where near the power had on the South Bend, they do not make them like they used to!
There is a filament called HTN CF25, (High Temp Nylon with a 25% carbon fiber mix) it's nickname is black aluminum. It is very hard and it IS machinable, I use it to test print the wrenches and sockets we design. The parts printed with this stuff even have a metal sounding ring to them if you tap two of printed parts together. The filament can be printed on any 3d printer with a hardened steal nozzle and a max temp of at least 300c, on my machine it prints at 285c (no heated chamber needed). It is kind of expensive but once you use it, it's hard to go back to PLA.
You forgot to include the fact that the Precision Mathews comes with an installed DRO. I don't know if that was included in the $3k package or not but if it was by the time you add that plus the time and effort involved to install on the Vevor it would be very close to the same price. I also have a PM lathe, 12-28 and it does everything I have needed to do. Great comparison. Thanks.
I got myself an even cheaper Seig type mini lathe a while ago. Out of the box they are pretty bad, but there is a lot of tutorials and videos online to set them up and clean them up to produce good parts in soft metals and plastics. I couldn't afford nor fit a larger lathe, so a low quality mini lathe had to be the choice. For those that have the time and mind to finess and upgrade small things on the machine they end up working pretty well for a hobbiest working with Aluminium, Brass, Nylon and POM... and some very light steel work. I wish I could have a Precision Mathews lathe though, they seem to work well right out of the box.
Honestly, unless you got one from a really bad, Friday afternoon batch, you likely still got a better lathe than any Vevor lathe. Vevor sells some quite reasonable accessories at keen prices but the lathes they sell seems to be from the scrap bins of the likes of SEIG!😂
I've been trying to talk myself into getting a small metal lathe and had been considering to 8x14. This video showed me the false economy (needing to basically double the initial $$ outlay) to have similar functionality with weaker results requiring additional effort.
Hi, I've lathe more less the same as the PM one (different brand, I am in EU). The oil leak was there as well, so it seems to be feature, not bug :( That was pretty much what I could adfford space wise, I'd go for one step up otherwise (with regular gearbox and better guides). I've changed the 1HP async motor for 2HP 120Hz one with VFD to get reasonable power in low RPM and installed the ELS by clough42. I am still thinking about the DRO, but it's not that important on the lathe (I have one oin my mill). BTW there is a company selling the small (imported, of course) lathes with ELS here in Czech republic since last year. BTW2: the "hook" wrench is for the nut holding the belt pulley on the spindle.
What was the expected benefit of comparing a $600 lathe to one 5x the cost? Great vid, but was the point just to show a more expensive lathe is better?
Im a trained machinist, someone gave me a Vevor 8.5x24. Shipping cost more than the machine is worth. I got it running well, including making new tailstock (was 50thou low). Is decent now, in my friend’s garage.
I noticed from your coroplast yard sign in the previous video (484 area code) and the PA license plate that we're probably located relatively close to each other. I live in Pottstown. I'm frequently wondering about how I can use my CNC, 3d printers and other tools together to make functional items. I would love to see more videos about the confluence of all of these technologies. If you ever need access to a large cnc router let me know, I have a 5x10 avid in my garage!
The video was very informative. I didn't expect much from the Vevor and if didn't do anything to change my mind. I have a Grizzly 12X36 gunsmith lathe that I really like but I want to get a smaller lathe to convert to CNC. I know now that the Vevor won't be that lathe. Thanks for saving me the disappointment.
Great video. I'd like to see more 3d Print with engineering stuff. Looking forward to seeing how you "improve" the PM Lathe. Like a few others here I'd like to own a budget lathe and it's useful to see real-world unbiased comparisons.
Holy crap. There’s no way someone buying the Vevor will have the skills you have to fix that Wow that would be gut wrenching to still of dropped over 700 bucks and hear that for the 1st start 😢 So for me I would of been dead in the water with the Vevor having no prior experience with metal lathe. I’m glad you made this video for the world to see. I would love to hear your thoughts about this company Littlemachineshop they are in Pasadena Ca. And seen to be more on top of their quality. I wonder if they would work with you so you could put one of their lathes up against the PM 10-22.
LMS are well respected and do seem to offer much better quality lathes than Vevor (not hard, Vevor's lathes are infamous for their dreadful quality). Not all Chinese small lathes are equal and Vevor are the bottom of the pile. The PM 9x22 is Chinese of course, so it goes to show that China can make decent machine tools. 😉
I have a Grizzly 7 x 12 and really like it. I also have 2 larger lathes. I would say that the Grizzly is a much superior machine compared to the Vevor. The Grizzly does have its limitations but is great for the smaller projects that i usually find myself doing.
From a budget perspective, this is always a tough debate. Vevor is so cheap, but then you pay for it in the long run with the upgrades, frustrations, and maybe regret. I went the path of a used Hardinge lathe, and as a result have a lot of cleanup and repairs to do. Everything's a trade-off, but your budget is the budget, and adding two grand on to your budget isn't as easy as we would all like it to be. Either way, great video, and I would love to see the conversion you were talking about.
Wow, the value of the accessories that come with the P- M lathe have got to be about what the entire Vevor lathe costs. That plus the issues with the Vevor make it a pretty easy choice to make.
You're correct the back plate is part of the spindle. However it is an MT3 TAPER at least send my 7-in. I believe the 8-in uses the same spindle. Is that a 100 mm chuck?
The fact that you had so many out of the box issues with the Vevor did surprise me only because you really should not have to fix anything that is new. I think the amount that the Vevor chassis was flexing was telling and seems like it is a must to bolt down to a solid bench to have less the frame flexing and then it probably would run more accurately. In your cost comparison to make the Vevor closer in price I think you for got to add the DRO cost to the Vevor if it can even have one. Great video as always!
There is a Chinese lathe manufacturer that sells an encoder thread cutting kit for these mini lathes including that PM. They are called Numobmas. Unlike Vevor who is the trying to get your business once there are many quality Chinese manufacturers who are barely 10% more expensive and several are even giving big western brands a run for their money.
What are Western brands? Nearly all of the machines that are available new today are made in China or Taiwan. I have owned both and will have to say that the Taiwan built machines are head and shoulders above the Chinese. I currently own the Eisen 1440, which is the twin to one shown at the beginning of this video.
Nice video! I have no reason to ever get one of these but still very interesting. Also thank you for using a sensible knife to open the boxes rather than the typical RUclipsr Crocodile Dundee knife.
I recently bought a Vevor electric winch because I needed a really cheap simple one to mount on some kind of swiveling arm mounted to a wall. And Vevor had one that was supposed to fit an arm they had too. I didn't expect much from it and it was still worse than I expected. It was possible to put together and make work but none of it went together really well. I have lifted about 40% of its stated weight limit with it, it worked, but I will not be doing anything heavier than that. So after that experience all the issues this cheap Vevor lathe had are not that surprising. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, especially after seeing the loose mains voltage parts inside the metal cover. I used to have a small lathe that was a Sieg C2 (with different local branding on it), bought in 2008 I think. It was very similar in quality and size to this vevor. I kept using it until I got a much bigger one some years later (built in 1952, weighs one ton). I even managed to make bicycle wheel hubs on the small lathe out of 70mm aluminum. The biggest depth of cut it could do at that diameter was maybe 0.2mm so it took hours 🙂. So for someone extremely limited on space and money (like a student living in an appartment) such small table lathe can be usefull. It is that one or no lathe. It can be used if you have enough patience to work around its flaws. But it is a coin toss whether or not the particular unit you get will have issues that make it non-functional or not. And you better be an electrical engineering student just to judge if it is safe to plug it in...
I really have no interest in lathes and will never buy one, but enjoy watching your content and reviews, whatever your content is. Some people just have a knack of being interesting, informative and educational all at the same time, and you have that covered.
When you brought up the electronic controlled feed... I'm actually floored it's not a thing already. The price of the components is not an issue. It's just a different kind of expertice needed by the manufacturer between electornics and machining. It shouldn't be that hard to bring to market.
You would get better rigidity with the lighter tool if you bolted it to something. Those lathes are very light with narrow ways just to sit on a table. A little cutting oil would help with the drilling too. You can't just power through jobs with a 500 watt lathe. I have the 220x750mm Vevor lathe which is a bigger model with a 1100 watt motor and the spindle has an MT5 taper for turning between centers with a 38mm bore. I don't know about the really little one. The documentation says the 8x14 has an MT3 spindle taper.
Another great video! Should be very helpful for some. You got my attention and I've had a PM 1127-VF-LB for years (discontinued and replaced with PM-1130) and I recently just purchased a PM-1340GT. I've thought about the electronic leadscrew for some time for my 1127, but just keep putting it on the back burner. Would certainly be interested in seeing you outfit the PM-1022 with an ELS and it would certainly save time and effort from messing around with change gears on the occasions when you want to single point thread with it. Out of curiosity, will you be designing and making your own or using someone else's, like Clough42?
Thank you. Yes, it influenced my opinion. I knew Vevor was crudely made but I didn't realize how much they skimped on basic functionality. I figured they may be good enough but not great. I'd been considering a small lathe to play with and they were on the list but unless they have something significantly better than this model, they're not worth considering. I know there's a big price difference but you've shown that value seems to be in spending more to get more.
As a guy with a mid-size and a large lathe, my expectations of my little vevor I picked up on craigslist (essentially brand new, the o.p. thought he could make things instantly and easily, and so lost interested instantly and sold it to me cheaply) was pretty low. But not low enough. One step above junk. That having been said, I just got it for my mobile work (trackside race support) to make/mod little widgets and it has been OK (just) AFTER I replaced the compound with a block of steel to get rid of the flex. I don't badly need tapers, and it made it radically more useful. If you can possibly swing the budget, buy a bit better, like a PM or similar. Or at least a grizzly where there are parts and community to help you. Good luck.
I have an old Enco 9x20 lathe I picked up like 10 years ago for around $900 on the used market. The guy that owned it before me basically threaded the top slide for a different quick change tool post stud which basically stripped out in the first few times I used the lathe. I tried to get a new top slide for the lathe from the company that now supports Enco tools and after a LONG wait I got a top slide that doesn't match the same dimensions as the old one. That was $115 down the drain as MSC Industrial Supply ghosted me after trying to get the right part and return this one. I think the machines that littlemachineshop recommends would work better than this Vevor from my research. I still haven't given up on my old Enco though as it's a machine I don't need very often. I did learn some tips form this vid because I really didn't know anything about lathes before I bought the Enco. Makes me want to get my lathe back up and running. The world of 3D printing has made my dream of fabricating in metal less appealing as the scratch building projects I do can now be printed.
Love your videos bud....no shouting and hype, just functional and factual. Thank you! Out of curiosity, are PM available in the UK - I suspect not 😢. I'd like to buy my first lathe at some point, but as a complete newbie am somewhat daunted by the learning curve.
Nope, I spoke to the owner on the Hobby Machinists forum (and if you're interested in machining,this is the forum to join, no silly elitist 'willy-waving' or put downs of beginners or hobbyists) and he said they don't. He said he'd be interested in finding a partner but suspected that the logistics and level of sales would probably make it economically infeasible. We do have Warco. These guys have been in the business since the late 1970s and are pretty well respected (especially compared to the other hobbyist machine tool importers in the UK). As always, though the more you spend, the better you'll get. I'd suggest considering Warco's WM180 the lowest model to look at. It's 8" swing and 12" between centres but the bed width (as in front to back of the slide ways) is 4", which compared with the usual 3" found on mini lathes make the lathe a fair bit more rigid. If you can afford it though, go as big as you can afford and fit in your workshop. 😉 The other alternative is used English 'old iron'. The advantage of this is (assuming the lathe has been well looked after), you often get a good amount of tooling in the deal, and so you can get a better manufactured, higher quality lathe, cheaper in the long run (despite sometimes the used prices approaching the cost of new). Models to look out for are Boxford, Harrison (and Myford but they're often overpriced, there's a hefty sentimental cachet associated with Myford in the UK for some reason, despite them arguably being less capable than equivalent Boxford or Harrison models).
You can hold a square piece of stock I a three jaw, by putting the square inside a thin wall tube with a slit along its length. Yes, not ideal, but OK for non-critical stuff.
Nice one man, thanks for taking the time. The Vevor performed pretty much as I expected to be honest (coming from someone who owns zero lathes and is not a machinist) but you always want to know for sure… Can it work? Surely they can’t make a lathe that cheap that works?! Hahah! The Precision looks like the way to go. New subscriber ✌🏻
Honestly, buying new is probably not the best way of getting a really good lathe. PM do a fantastic job of making sure the Chinese manufacturers they buy from, produce quality products, but if you can find one, a well looked after used 'old iron' lathe (South Bend 9" or even an Atlas 6" if you're in the US, or Myford ML7 or Boxford (A, B, or C model) if you're in the UK can often be found for reasonable sums (and they often come with a decent pile of tooling, which is generally another real money sink with machine tools). If you know someone with some experience of lathes or have a maker space near by with someone there you can talk to, they'll often be willing to help you sort the wheat from the chaff (or rather, used and a bit mucky looking lathes from rusty piles of scrap found in a barn! 😂).
What would be interesting to see is what could PM offer for $700 or Vevor could do for $3000. Theres also that variable that is the $3000 PM lathe a good value or are you just paying for another set of hands the machine pass through before it gets to you. When it comes down to it its about $$$$ people buying a new $700 lathe dont have $3000 to spend on a lathe. I will add you need some mechanical inclination for any of these machines. They all need a level of adjusting/repair/up grade.
It’s like buying a cheap 3d printer and then upgrading the hotend, build plate, motors, … In the end you spent almost the same as for a decent printer, still not getting the same performance. If you want to have a decent tool, you gotta pay the price. Btw love your videos and appreciate the effort taken.
Cute is for babies not machine tools. What a great review, super detailed. Longest YT review video I've ever watched. I wasn't surprised about the Vevor, I was surprised how capable the PM machine was.
Excellent Review and Comparison!!! I truly like it ! I specifically liked the honest and very realistic points about Vevor type. Why? Because I have something like that for many years, probably from 2015? But under an older brand, its a german brand, called Einhell BT-ML 300. I live in Romania and Im not very sure how 'german' is this lathe. But, aside of my mistrusting, it is a good lathe overall, and I could cut steel, even a bit hardened steel at some points, but the machine was squicking too loud. But it is cutting mild steel like butter. This was one of your points your Vevor brand suck at, and can cut only aluminium and plastic. And I am very surprised to see that, because it is more rigid mine. I guess, over the years they cheap out, whoever are making these small lathes. Or the brand matters? My lathe motor can run hours and it gets a bit hot but is not smelling hot. I cut for hours on it, incontinuously and it is a very good motor. Like yours it is variable. The toolpost that you have there from aluminium, mine is (cast or mild) steel, and I can not see a visible bending like in yours. Other than these 2 obvious things, I was very glad to hear your impressions about it, all the little details on how bad it performs at certain tasks, because it is Exactly how mine is doing too. The gibs for the sliding of the toolpost are VERY shitty, rattling the post, so I screw them harder to be more rigid, big backlash on the traveling screw, because its the main wheel Im turning all the time, 3 jaws chuck is small and shitty, I understood very quickly I have a length limit so I didnt put it to more that it could. In your experiment, you get different diameter on the cut on your vevor, and I did had exactly the same problem, until I find out that it come from the toolpost ratling on to the traveling gibs. Also it is true for Deep cuts and harder steels , I get that non-uniform cut, BUT if I Im cutting small depth, I get the same result as your PM-1022 ! Very smooth and very precise. It matters how you cut, how deep or how shallow. Also the rigidity of your toolpost and the entire column it is attached to. Very important. I only use carbide cutter, since I dont have any other fancy triangular cutter that are common these days. They are too expensive for me so I limit myself to carbide cutter and I can do a lot with it. The only inconvenient it is that I have to sharpen it more often. All the little problems you said you had on your vevor I have them on mine, with 2 or 3 exceptions so again, it was a very good review !!!
Also I feel like you might already know this, but you should be taking your measurements on cold parts. Working them on the lathe heats them up, and distorts the measurements. If you want to measure hot, create the female part first, because the hole will get slightly bigger as the parts cool (because cold contracts and heat expands).
Brilliant comparison. I have watched any number of mini lathe "upgrades". I have made the same comments on them all. For all the time and effort and expenditure upgrading them, they could have just bought a bigger/better machine. If you look at everything that came with the PM lathe it is far, far better value, even at 4 times the price.
When I saw this, I thought, no way I'm watching an hour-and-a-half video. Not only did I watch it, but I hung on every word. I learned a lot. Thanks for all your efforts.
I believe the content of this video could help new hobbyist that are considering a lathe purchase. Actually seeing them function in testing was great. Thanks for sharing it!
As youtube doesn't like long format video's I'm making sure to stay around UNTIL THE END. I've seen a couple of these "small lathe review" vids and this one is pretty cool.
Thanks!
RUclips doesn't "not like long format videos" .. users have to ration their view-minutes to take in all the assorted content in their limited free time. "The algorithm" responds to viewer demands. As much as I love 3d printing and lathes, I don't have 1.5 hours to invest in getting the executive overview. Chapter marks would help, as would a condensed 20-minute summary video... with link to the longer "director's cut" if you will.
That's not even entirely true anymore. You haven't heard about the "sleep viewtime meta"?
Super long formats like stream vods or recombined into 1 video episodic series are doing super good on the platform.
This is long enough to start entering that realm.
It is true that there's a few gaps in lengths that perform poorly. The prime real estate is shortd
RUclips loves "watch time", so so many channels now are making >hour long videos that are full of fluff, they maybe have 15 minutes of actual content in them and the rest is filler, just to get their watch time numbers up - it's driving me nuts
@gorak9000 that's the completely wrong way of achieving that... If people click off because you made boring content you don't get watchtime at all.
I'm not sure about what you are describing because none of the channels I watch seem to be doing that.
I do know that you can manipulate the metric after the fact if you use the youtube editor to remove the boring parts of the video some time after the upload.
Thanks! I have access to nice tools thru a MakerSpace but I am curious about these incredibly low cost machines. This was obviously a massive amount of work so here is a small expression of thanks. Love your channel.
I saw a really neat set of power tool projects, including a lathe that were 3D printed, but the infill was concrete. Basically he printed the parts and then filled them with concrete afterwards and went through several iterations of design and made the plans free. It's a neat idea for the types of functional prints he was making (e.g. drill press, lathe, etc.).
I saw that too. I thought it was interesting even if the lathe didn't turn out to be that useful.
I would love to see the electronic lead screw conversion on the PM machine as well as turning dimensional parts from 3d printed parts. This is a very informative video. Thanks.
I wake up in the middle of the night quite often, and have to get up early for work (construction) so I started watching at around 1:30 AM, but did finish the video at 5:20 (fell back asleep a few times), but I loved it! I am starting to learn more about CNC/metalwork, so this was awesome in addition to your 3D printing videos. Would definitely like to see that electronic lead screw update. Also good to know I can spend 3 grand and get a very capable lathe with a DRO!
So well Shown! I for one think you should start a secondary channel of lathe turning /machining! Well Done I bet your grandpa Would be proud! It really shows how these 2 machines are night and day apart.
In the realm of small lathes, you can actually go smaller and get really very nice lathes. You mentioned your grandfather's watchmaker lathe. There are two similar-size lathes currently available that are able to do serious work: the Taig and the Sherline. I have a Taig, and I think it would probably have stood up really well in this video. For about $900, you can get the 5C collet chuck version, which has a 1.125" spindle bore. I have an ER40 version (0.79" spindle bore) with a 1-horsepower brushless motor, and it never fails to impress me that the 15-long (overall!) lathe does such good work. A couple weeks ago, I turned down the head and most of the length of a 3/4" grade 8 bolt. With a carbide insert tool, the lathe made relatively easy work of the interrupted cut in hardened steel. When I was done, I picked the whole thing up and turned it upside-down over a trash can to clean out the metal chips.
Thanks for going in to so much detail in your video. I think it will give a lot of would-be lathe owners some good perspective on what they're getting in to.
This is a very good point. There are also lathes like the Emco Compact 5 (Austrian made) and Hobbymat/Prazimat models (old communist East German made and probably being the 'inspiration' for the modern Chinese mini lathe) that are significantly higher quality and more rigid than Chinese mini lathes. In the cases where people absolutely need a small lathe and can't fit even a 9x22 lathe, these can be found on the used market and are generally a good buy.
Ha, I thought the title said building a lathe. Watched the whole thing before realizing. Super helpful video, I have considered buying a small lathe, or building that concrete filled 3d printed one I saw.
I have next to no idea what I just watched, but I watched the entire video because I enjoy your channel. The message you present is very clear, you get what you pay for / buy once cry once.
I learnt so much about lathes today. I knew nothing before and now I know there's a lot more detail to these machines than I ever realized.
Appreciate the time and effort put in to answer questions I think a lot of hobbyist have. It definitely changed my opinion as far as the route to take. Thank you.
Great review on both machines. I personally own the PM727 Mill and have enjoyed the convenances of its accuracies and size for my simple projects. Now I am looking at this PM's 1030v lathe as a space saver over my South Bend 10K x 48". I love my SB 10K, but it is a horizontal drive and being 48" just takes up too much space in my garage. I normally turn much shorter stock and therefore this 1022 will fit my needs much better. Thanks for the comparison although I personally would never have considered anything like the Vevor product, but your video gave me a great look at the PM lathe. I will be in contact with Matt soon and will let him know I watched your video. Thanks again, Bill from Colorado
You make a very good point about electronic lead screws in these machines. The components for that have gotten so cheap, they might even be cheaper to manufacture than a gear-based system. I'm actually a bit surprised that someone like PM isn't already doing that.
I'm not awfully surprised that one tool costing more than 4x what another costs also performs considerably better; but actually seeing the difference in build quality and machining capabilities was fascinating. Great video, thanks taking the time to make it, and for sharing your insights and explanations.
More of this. Really good video. I come from an engineering and machinist background first, and still relatively new to 3dp. I've noticed so much in the 3D world that seems to be 3D printed for the sake of 3D printing, even though a different material would do the job way better. The combination of additive and subtractive and plastic and metal where each are best is the real deal. Just a matter of right tool for the job. What both fields have in common, is that the lowest end machines can be made to perform fairly well, but are probably not worth the time, outside of just being good learning experiences. I have a mediocre 9x20 lathe, a nice 17x40, and a truly crappy little 7x14 (used in my mobile shop for trackside work) but which is still useful. Best thing I ever did to it was to axe the compound and thus greatly increase the rigidity (and a small STEEL qctp setup). Good luck with the little lathe. You'll need it as much as I do with 3DP right now. Cheers :) p.s. I look forward to seeing your 1022 lathe. I've been thinking about replacing my 920 with either it or the 1127.
I saw a 7x10 mini lathe at harbor freight the other day, and was shocked at how small it looked in person vs in photos. It really drove home how much smaller the practically usable volume is compared to the "it will technically fit" dimensions.
I've been working with desktop sized lathes for small parts for ~25 years now. The harbor freight lathe is what is commonly referred to as the 7x lathe, it's imported from china and rebranded by a large number of companies. It's.. fine. If you don't need much precision, speed, or power, you can do a lot with it. It can be user upgraded and tuned to do decent small/light work.
Very small lathes have great usefulness for a ton of people, and can be a dirt cheap way to get into the hobby and learn.
If anyone happens to just need something very small for lighter work and doesn't want to spend much, check out Taig. They're extremely well made, basically bulletproof, and very cheap. Very much designed to be upgraded DIY style. I've had one in the shop for 20+ years and still love it for really small precision stuff.. but I've turned 2" titanium on it too, albeit with great difficulty.
For anything "normal shop sized" this video is spot on, precision matthews is the way to go.
Man, you really knocked it out of the park this time! I couldn't believe you'd review two lathes to settles that issue.🤯 I loved the review, as always it was very well thought out and performed. I have a MicroMark 7x14, and although a different brand, it looks identical. I recently replaced the spindle, spindle bearings (taper kind), motor (1hp servo), scraped every surface by hand (had a 0.005" bow in the bed), CNCd it, and 3D printed all new covers for it, and yes, the spindle and backplate are one single piece. Of course I would love more machining content, I think most metal machinists also dabble in 3D printing nowadays, and viceversa. If I were to be greedy, and be able to ask for even more goodness from your already excellent channel, I'd say try filming in 4K. I'm sure you have already evaluated that option, and you have your reasons. I'm just throwing out there as a wish list item to make your channel even more compelling. Good job as always. Ciao, Marco.
There are very few VS vids with the tiny vs small lathes out there. This has solidified my decision to buy a PM lathe.
The Grizzly G0602 is essentially the same lathe as the PM, for less money, with slightly different paint colors. If you're patient, they come up on CL or marketplace used for less than half of new cost regularly too
A good example of "you get what you pay for" thanks for info and review. I've been looking at a PM and I now know that I'm spending the extra money in a good way. It would be nice to see print comparisons between the X1C a Plus4 when it comes to abs,nylon,pps ect.
Hi! I loved this video. Back when I first came across your channel, it was for one of the videos where you were printing way covers for your mill. As it turns out, I have the big brother to your mill (the PM-833TV), and a smaller brother to your lathe (the PM 12-28). I actually have lathe envy...I'd much rather have YOUR lathe, but my 12-28 runs on 110, weighs less than half as much, and accommodates all the jobs I've had for it so far. When I start feeling inadequate, I mill something on my mill. Seriously though...in the beginning, I started with a smaller lathe...my first lathe was a Lathemaster 9x30. And even that was a giant compared to the VEVOR. Like you, I get folks all the time asking about those mini lathes. And what I ultimately tell them is that if they're only ever going to turn brass or aluminum, and usually less than 3/4", they'll probably be able to live with the cheap mini-lathes...but any larger, and they'll be unhappy with that choice!
I'm sure you've already seen Clough42's videos regarding his electronic leadscrew! I'm certain that could be adapted easily to the PM 10-22! There's certainly no need to re-invent the wheel, and he's refined that quite a bit at this point.
Brilliant video, thank you 👍
I'm considering a small hobby lathe, and this has really helped me to hold on, save up some more money, make a bit more space, and get a "proper" lathe 😉
Keep up the great content 👍
As someone who is big on ambition but small on space, videos like this are extremely helpful in knowing what to look for. So many people just gloss over the small equipment and proceed to tell you how much they love whichever full-sized machine they have. If we all had the space for a full-sized metal working lathe, then I think we'd all have one we love already. Sadly, this is reality and there are constraints.
An electronic lead screw would be a good reason to buy that PM, especially if the price could be around the same. I'd love to see a video of a conversion. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this video!
This has to be the best demo of 'you get what you pay for' I have seen. I really appreciated the dual camera workpiece + controls shots (I do not recall seeing anyone else do that) and you showing the Vevor's lack of rigidity resulting in a cut that was changing diameters. Please do more on 3D print then get precision with a lathe or mill where needed!
Great video. Have wanted to get into metal work, but this video showed I have a lot to learn before pulling the trigger. Any recommendations for how to learn would be appreciated.
I’ve been looking at getting a lathe, and this was the best comparison video I’ve seen. Watched the whole thing, and learned so much. For me, I’m just gonna keep saving and get a Precision Matthews with DRO.
I really appreciate your detailed video. I also bought a vevor 7x14 lathe and yes it's taking some time and in fact I'm still upgrading it just because I've enjoyed building it into a proper machine. I personally couldn't afford a $3,000 machine but I would love to have one. So for me the $500 7-in was the only option but thank you very much for this video. It's been very educational and I hope one day to be able to purchase my own precision Matthews 10-in machine.
My first machine tool was the little machine shop mini lathe. The motor is much stronger, will do .020 cuts in steel, though chatter can be an issue due to rigidity. Watching this video was great as it showed how small my problems are in comparison to the Vevor.
Wow what an ambitious video! Thanks for doing it!
I have been wanting a small hobby lathe forever. Was considering the Vevor or maybe trying my luck on Craigslist. This has definitely made me seriously consider that Precision Matthiews, a brand I hadn't even hear of before.
I picked up a Vevor MX-S716G recently as a first lathe. Looks like the same casting and cross slide as the one you tested, but different motor configuration. The motor seems a lot stronger and smoother than yours, but it's a brushless motor that's built into the spindle, so longevity is questionable. A lot of the issues that you ran into were definitely there: the whole thing was packed with oily grinding dust, the cross slide gibs can't be adjusted, and the tool post height issue is the same. I did swap the fixed tool post for a QC post already, so that's a big improvement. The biggest issue I'm having is that the carriage saddle has slop in it, and much like your cross slide, I can't find an adjustment point where it's snug without binding the whole thing up. That makes it chatter like crazy. Still, for the price, it's been a fun little project and I've learned a lot. For the $500 I paid I think it's worth it for the education before stepping up to something nicer.
It's a great comparison for someone like me with a passing interest in buying a lathe, who might end up buying a cheaper one not knowing the limitations. Having said that. the vevor is still significantly cheaper and frees up funds for other things - if you are only doing very basic things with it. What I got out of this, is I should probably pony up for a proper unit if I end up doing it, otherwise the frustrations would turn me off the hobby. Cheap 3d printers turned me off 5 yrs ago, and its only now with relatively affordable reliable and easy to use ones from Bambu that i've come back in, and its reignited a love for the hobby.
Great long-for video with real world details a user would need to determine if one of these machines would work for them. I'm not even in the market for a lathe and sat through the entire video. Great work Rich!
Having been intimidated completely during an "intro to metalwork" course at a local makerspace, I went toward 3D printing instead and have had a blast. I still have hopes for learning lathes and mills "one day" and liked your presentation and affect so much, I'm going to stick around and see what you can show me to help up my 3-D printing game! And I'll still watch any future metal videos with interest. Thanks for a great video!
Those small lathes are sold with different names, mine, cost almost the double but had more accessories and better assemble and motor, after spending weeks working on it, I can turn titanium and get good results, but the most important thing that I didn’t knew is that for a underpower machine we need good tools so I end up spending 10x more the cost of the lathe on them. To turn steel on it it’s necessary to install a pc fan to help cool the motor and a thermistor on the shell or it will burn because it’s cooled by internal blades that depend on the speed, since the speed will be slow it will melt after a couple of hours.
Just a tip for the hardened rod on your 1440. Try some ceramic inserts for the hardened layer. Expensive. But you won't tear up your cnmg's. Nice review. I have a vevor 8x16. And mine came in far better condition than yours. However it's not a steel cutting lathe. Plastic. Brass and light aluminum work only. Also works great for pool cues, and trimming cases for reloading. Everything else goes on my PM 1440sm2v. Nice video again Sir.
I don't know a darn thing about Lathes. I do 3D printing and somehow found this vid. I have to say... this was a great concept for presentation, and definitely increases my interest in subtractive manufacturing. I'll check out some more videos on RUclips
They have come a long ways from 13 inch Southbend I learned on. It must of weighed at least 1200lbs or more. Nice looking machine! Looks like a challenging project to take on, the language barrier can be difficult. I still have South Bend we got for free with 38 " length and center holder set up in my father's business where he was using it to rechamber rifles. It seems a bit strange, I gave him his first lessons on using it back in the early 90's. He then learned the skills of precision rifle barrel making and rechamber work from a master machinist who taught him all the details he needed to learn over the next two years. He was quick to pick up the highly intricate work one needed to do to rechamber the rounds for new cartridges. He was quite accomplished at it, building some of the best long distance rifles one could buy. Wow, that machine no where near the power had on the South Bend, they do not make them like they used to!
Great show. Well thought out. Machines were like night & day, the machining 3D prints items would be an interesting show, not occurred to me before.
Excellent video! Thanks for doing this comparison. I will be saving up a bit longer if I buy a lathe and steer clear of the cheap mini lathes.
There is a filament called HTN CF25, (High Temp Nylon with a 25% carbon fiber mix) it's nickname is black aluminum. It is very hard and it IS machinable, I use it to test print the wrenches and sockets we design. The parts printed with this stuff even have a metal sounding ring to them if you tap two of printed parts together. The filament can be printed on any 3d printer with a hardened steal nozzle and a max temp of at least 300c, on my machine it prints at 285c (no heated chamber needed). It is kind of expensive but once you use it, it's hard to go back to PLA.
You forgot to include the fact that the Precision Mathews comes with an installed DRO. I don't know if that was included in the $3k package or not but if it was by the time you add that plus the time and effort involved to install on the Vevor it would be very close to the same price. I also have a PM lathe, 12-28 and it does everything I have needed to do. Great comparison. Thanks.
I have a Old Craftsman 101-214 lathe that even though it is small has worked great for my needs.
I got myself an even cheaper Seig type mini lathe a while ago. Out of the box they are pretty bad, but there is a lot of tutorials and videos online to set them up and clean them up to produce good parts in soft metals and plastics. I couldn't afford nor fit a larger lathe, so a low quality mini lathe had to be the choice. For those that have the time and mind to finess and upgrade small things on the machine they end up working pretty well for a hobbiest working with Aluminium, Brass, Nylon and POM... and some very light steel work. I wish I could have a Precision Mathews lathe though, they seem to work well right out of the box.
Honestly, unless you got one from a really bad, Friday afternoon batch, you likely still got a better lathe than any Vevor lathe. Vevor sells some quite reasonable accessories at keen prices but the lathes they sell seems to be from the scrap bins of the likes of SEIG!😂
I've been trying to talk myself into getting a small metal lathe and had been considering to 8x14. This video showed me the false economy (needing to basically double the initial $$ outlay) to have similar functionality with weaker results requiring additional effort.
Hi,
I've lathe more less the same as the PM one (different brand, I am in EU). The oil leak was there as well, so it seems to be feature, not bug :(
That was pretty much what I could adfford space wise, I'd go for one step up otherwise (with regular gearbox and better guides).
I've changed the 1HP async motor for 2HP 120Hz one with VFD to get reasonable power in low RPM and installed the ELS by clough42. I am still thinking about the DRO, but it's not that important on the lathe (I have one oin my mill).
BTW there is a company selling the small (imported, of course) lathes with ELS here in Czech republic since last year.
BTW2: the "hook" wrench is for the nut holding the belt pulley on the spindle.
Thank you for the great comparison! I thought about the smaller, cheaper lathe, but not anymore. For this, I thank you!
What was the expected benefit of comparing a $600 lathe to one 5x the cost? Great vid, but was the point just to show a more expensive lathe is better?
The Vivor strikes as something done by Fisher-Price that you give a toddler to play with.
Im a trained machinist, someone gave me a Vevor 8.5x24. Shipping cost more than the machine is worth. I got it running well, including making new tailstock (was 50thou low). Is decent now, in my friend’s garage.
I noticed from your coroplast yard sign in the previous video (484 area code) and the PA license plate that we're probably located relatively close to each other. I live in Pottstown. I'm frequently wondering about how I can use my CNC, 3d printers and other tools together to make functional items. I would love to see more videos about the confluence of all of these technologies. If you ever need access to a large cnc router let me know, I have a 5x10 avid in my garage!
The video was very informative. I didn't expect much from the Vevor and if didn't do anything to change my mind. I have a Grizzly 12X36 gunsmith lathe that I really like but I want to get a smaller lathe to convert to CNC. I know now that the Vevor won't be that lathe. Thanks for saving me the disappointment.
Great video. I'd like to see more 3d Print with engineering stuff. Looking forward to seeing how you "improve" the PM Lathe. Like a few others here I'd like to own a budget lathe and it's useful to see real-world unbiased comparisons.
Holy crap. There’s no way someone buying the Vevor will have the skills you have to fix that Wow that would be gut wrenching to still of dropped over 700 bucks and hear that for the 1st start 😢
So for me I would of been dead in the water with the Vevor having no prior experience with metal lathe. I’m glad you made this video for the world to see.
I would love to hear your thoughts about this company Littlemachineshop they are in Pasadena Ca. And seen to be more on top of their quality. I wonder if they would work with you so you could put one of their lathes up against the PM 10-22.
LMS are well respected and do seem to offer much better quality lathes than Vevor (not hard, Vevor's lathes are infamous for their dreadful quality).
Not all Chinese small lathes are equal and Vevor are the bottom of the pile.
The PM 9x22 is Chinese of course, so it goes to show that China can make decent machine tools. 😉
Great video. Useful food for thought. My current tools are at work to the micron. The PM looks good.
I would love to see you keep that precision machine and perhaps do the upgrade you talked about!
I have a Grizzly 7 x 12 and really like it. I also have 2 larger lathes. I would say that the Grizzly is a much superior machine compared to the Vevor. The Grizzly does have its limitations but is great for the smaller projects that i usually find myself doing.
From a budget perspective, this is always a tough debate. Vevor is so cheap, but then you pay for it in the long run with the upgrades, frustrations, and maybe regret. I went the path of a used Hardinge lathe, and as a result have a lot of cleanup and repairs to do. Everything's a trade-off, but your budget is the budget, and adding two grand on to your budget isn't as easy as we would all like it to be. Either way, great video, and I would love to see the conversion you were talking about.
Wow, the value of the accessories that come with the P- M lathe have got to be about what the entire Vevor lathe costs.
That plus the issues with the Vevor make it a pretty easy choice to make.
Great video and great videography. Thank you for this breakdown and comparison.
You're correct the back plate is part of the spindle. However it is an MT3 TAPER at least send my 7-in. I believe the 8-in uses the same spindle. Is that a 100 mm chuck?
Yes on the electronic lead screw video. Clough42 version would be great
1h31m video! Let's Gooooo!
Few weeks ago turned a 3dPrint (100% infill) into a xmass three....pure artwork :D
Good video!
Waiting for the (affordable) desktop cnc lathe's
The fact that you had so many out of the box issues with the Vevor did surprise me only because you really should not have to fix anything that is new. I think the amount that the Vevor chassis was flexing was telling and seems like it is a must to bolt down to a solid bench to have less the frame flexing and then it probably would run more accurately. In your cost comparison to make the Vevor closer in price I think you for got to add the DRO cost to the Vevor if it can even have one. Great video as always!
There is a Chinese lathe manufacturer that sells an encoder thread cutting kit for these mini lathes including that PM. They are called Numobmas. Unlike Vevor who is the trying to get your business once there are many quality Chinese manufacturers who are barely 10% more expensive and several are even giving big western brands a run for their money.
What are Western brands? Nearly all of the machines that are available new today are made in China or Taiwan. I have owned both and will have to say that the Taiwan built machines are head and shoulders above the Chinese. I currently own the Eisen 1440, which is the twin to one shown at the beginning of this video.
Compare this blue one against the one you already have in your shop...the larger one. Enjoyed this vid, ty!
Really fantastic work comparing these out of the box, real world experience. How about PM vs Sherline now and Taig brackets now?
1:03 I think the spindle unscrews?
Nice video! I have no reason to ever get one of these but still very interesting. Also thank you for using a sensible knife to open the boxes rather than the typical RUclipsr Crocodile Dundee knife.
I just upgraded my 7x14 to a 14x40. Thanks for the video.
I recently bought a Vevor electric winch because I needed a really cheap simple one to mount on some kind of swiveling arm mounted to a wall. And Vevor had one that was supposed to fit an arm they had too.
I didn't expect much from it and it was still worse than I expected. It was possible to put together and make work but none of it went together really well. I have lifted about 40% of its stated weight limit with it, it worked, but I will not be doing anything heavier than that.
So after that experience all the issues this cheap Vevor lathe had are not that surprising. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, especially after seeing the loose mains voltage parts inside the metal cover.
I used to have a small lathe that was a Sieg C2 (with different local branding on it), bought in 2008 I think. It was very similar in quality and size to this vevor. I kept using it until I got a much bigger one some years later (built in 1952, weighs one ton). I even managed to make bicycle wheel hubs on the small lathe out of 70mm aluminum. The biggest depth of cut it could do at that diameter was maybe 0.2mm so it took hours 🙂. So for someone extremely limited on space and money (like a student living in an appartment) such small table lathe can be usefull. It is that one or no lathe. It can be used if you have enough patience to work around its flaws. But it is a coin toss whether or not the particular unit you get will have issues that make it non-functional or not. And you better be an electrical engineering student just to judge if it is safe to plug it in...
I really have no interest in lathes and will never buy one, but enjoy watching your content and reviews, whatever your content is. Some people just have a knack of being interesting, informative and educational all at the same time, and you have that covered.
I’m in the market for a small lathe and now after watching this think I may need to look at different options
When you brought up the electronic controlled feed... I'm actually floored it's not a thing already. The price of the components is not an issue. It's just a different kind of expertice needed by the manufacturer between electornics and machining. It shouldn't be that hard to bring to market.
0:39 I’d love to see the outtake of the shot that didn’t make it! 😂
You would get better rigidity with the lighter tool if you bolted it to something. Those lathes are very light with narrow ways just to sit on a table. A little cutting oil would help with the drilling too. You can't just power through jobs with a 500 watt lathe. I have the 220x750mm Vevor lathe which is a bigger model with a 1100 watt motor and the spindle has an MT5 taper for turning between centers with a 38mm bore. I don't know about the really little one. The documentation says the 8x14 has an MT3 spindle taper.
I've turned my PLA on the lathe before, works fine.
1:23:45 okay so now what can we buy for that amount?
Another great video! Should be very helpful for some. You got my attention and I've had a PM 1127-VF-LB for years (discontinued and replaced with PM-1130) and I recently just purchased a PM-1340GT. I've thought about the electronic leadscrew for some time for my 1127, but just keep putting it on the back burner. Would certainly be interested in seeing you outfit the PM-1022 with an ELS and it would certainly save time and effort from messing around with change gears on the occasions when you want to single point thread with it. Out of curiosity, will you be designing and making your own or using someone else's, like Clough42?
Those small gearboxed lathes leaking from the drain plug is kind of a meme since the late 80s I think...
Thank you. Yes, it influenced my opinion. I knew Vevor was crudely made but I didn't realize how much they skimped on basic functionality. I figured they may be good enough but not great. I'd been considering a small lathe to play with and they were on the list but unless they have something significantly better than this model, they're not worth considering. I know there's a big price difference but you've shown that value seems to be in spending more to get more.
As a guy with a mid-size and a large lathe, my expectations of my little vevor I picked up on craigslist (essentially brand new, the o.p. thought he could make things instantly and easily, and so lost interested instantly and sold it to me cheaply) was pretty low. But not low enough. One step above junk. That having been said, I just got it for my mobile work (trackside race support) to make/mod little widgets and it has been OK (just) AFTER I replaced the compound with a block of steel to get rid of the flex. I don't badly need tapers, and it made it radically more useful. If you can possibly swing the budget, buy a bit better, like a PM or similar. Or at least a grizzly where there are parts and community to help you. Good luck.
I have an old Enco 9x20 lathe I picked up like 10 years ago for around $900 on the used market. The guy that owned it before me basically threaded the top slide for a different quick change tool post stud which basically stripped out in the first few times I used the lathe. I tried to get a new top slide for the lathe from the company that now supports Enco tools and after a LONG wait I got a top slide that doesn't match the same dimensions as the old one. That was $115 down the drain as MSC Industrial Supply ghosted me after trying to get the right part and return this one. I think the machines that littlemachineshop recommends would work better than this Vevor from my research. I still haven't given up on my old Enco though as it's a machine I don't need very often. I did learn some tips form this vid because I really didn't know anything about lathes before I bought the Enco. Makes me want to get my lathe back up and running. The world of 3D printing has made my dream of fabricating in metal less appealing as the scratch building projects I do can now be printed.
Love your videos bud....no shouting and hype, just functional and factual. Thank you!
Out of curiosity, are PM available in the UK - I suspect not 😢. I'd like to buy my first lathe at some point, but as a complete newbie am somewhat daunted by the learning curve.
Nope, I spoke to the owner on the Hobby Machinists forum (and if you're interested in machining,this is the forum to join, no silly elitist 'willy-waving' or put downs of beginners or hobbyists) and he said they don't. He said he'd be interested in finding a partner but suspected that the logistics and level of sales would probably make it economically infeasible.
We do have Warco. These guys have been in the business since the late 1970s and are pretty well respected (especially compared to the other hobbyist machine tool importers in the UK).
As always, though the more you spend, the better you'll get. I'd suggest considering Warco's WM180 the lowest model to look at. It's 8" swing and 12" between centres but the bed width (as in front to back of the slide ways) is 4", which compared with the usual 3" found on mini lathes make the lathe a fair bit more rigid. If you can afford it though, go as big as you can afford and fit in your workshop. 😉
The other alternative is used English 'old iron'. The advantage of this is (assuming the lathe has been well looked after), you often get a good amount of tooling in the deal, and so you can get a better manufactured, higher quality lathe, cheaper in the long run (despite sometimes the used prices approaching the cost of new).
Models to look out for are Boxford, Harrison (and Myford but they're often overpriced, there's a hefty sentimental cachet associated with Myford in the UK for some reason, despite them arguably being less capable than equivalent Boxford or Harrison models).
You can hold a square piece of stock I a three jaw, by putting the square inside a thin wall tube with a slit along its length. Yes, not ideal, but OK for non-critical stuff.
Unfortunately no shipping to Europe for the Precision Matthews.
NUMOBAMS has an electronic lead screw, and auto threading built into their lathes, similar to how Clough42 modded his Grizzly.
Nice one man, thanks for taking the time. The Vevor performed pretty much as I expected to be honest (coming from someone who owns zero lathes and is not a machinist) but you always want to know for sure… Can it work? Surely they can’t make a lathe that cheap that works?! Hahah! The Precision looks like the way to go. New subscriber ✌🏻
Really sad to see the fall backs of the vevor I always kinda wanted to try a metal lathe but the expense is a major draw back and you validated that
Honestly, buying new is probably not the best way of getting a really good lathe. PM do a fantastic job of making sure the Chinese manufacturers they buy from, produce quality products, but if you can find one, a well looked after used 'old iron' lathe (South Bend 9" or even an Atlas 6" if you're in the US, or Myford ML7 or Boxford (A, B, or C model) if you're in the UK can often be found for reasonable sums (and they often come with a decent pile of tooling, which is generally another real money sink with machine tools).
If you know someone with some experience of lathes or have a maker space near by with someone there you can talk to, they'll often be willing to help you sort the wheat from the chaff (or rather, used and a bit mucky looking lathes from rusty piles of scrap found in a barn! 😂).
What would be interesting to see is what could PM offer for $700 or Vevor could do for $3000.
Theres also that variable that is the $3000 PM lathe a good value or are you just paying for another set of hands the machine pass through before it gets to you. When it comes down to it its about $$$$ people buying a new $700 lathe dont have $3000 to spend on a lathe. I will add you need some mechanical inclination for any of these machines. They all need a level of adjusting/repair/up grade.
It’s like buying a cheap 3d printer and then upgrading the hotend, build plate, motors, …
In the end you spent almost the same as for a decent printer, still not getting the same performance. If you want to have a decent tool, you gotta pay the price.
Btw love your videos and appreciate the effort taken.
Cute is for babies not machine tools. What a great review, super detailed. Longest YT review video I've ever watched. I wasn't surprised about the Vevor, I was surprised how capable the PM machine was.
Excellent Review and Comparison!!! I truly like it ! I specifically liked the honest and very realistic points about Vevor type. Why? Because I have something like that for many years, probably from 2015? But under an older brand, its a german brand, called Einhell BT-ML 300. I live in Romania and Im not very sure how 'german' is this lathe. But, aside of my mistrusting, it is a good lathe overall, and I could cut steel, even a bit hardened steel at some points, but the machine was squicking too loud. But it is cutting mild steel like butter. This was one of your points your Vevor brand suck at, and can cut only aluminium and plastic. And I am very surprised to see that, because it is more rigid mine. I guess, over the years they cheap out, whoever are making these small lathes. Or the brand matters? My lathe motor can run hours and it gets a bit hot but is not smelling hot. I cut for hours on it, incontinuously and it is a very good motor. Like yours it is variable. The toolpost that you have there from aluminium, mine is (cast or mild) steel, and I can not see a visible bending like in yours. Other than these 2 obvious things, I was very glad to hear your impressions about it, all the little details on how bad it performs at certain tasks, because it is Exactly how mine is doing too. The gibs for the sliding of the toolpost are VERY shitty, rattling the post, so I screw them harder to be more rigid, big backlash on the traveling screw, because its the main wheel Im turning all the time, 3 jaws chuck is small and shitty, I understood very quickly I have a length limit so I didnt put it to more that it could. In your experiment, you get different diameter on the cut on your vevor, and I did had exactly the same problem, until I find out that it come from the toolpost ratling on to the traveling gibs. Also it is true for Deep cuts and harder steels , I get that non-uniform cut, BUT if I Im cutting small depth, I get the same result as your PM-1022 ! Very smooth and very precise. It matters how you cut, how deep or how shallow. Also the rigidity of your toolpost and the entire column it is attached to. Very important. I only use carbide cutter, since I dont have any other fancy triangular cutter that are common these days. They are too expensive for me so I limit myself to carbide cutter and I can do a lot with it. The only inconvenient it is that I have to sharpen it more often. All the little problems you said you had on your vevor I have them on mine, with 2 or 3 exceptions so again, it was a very good review !!!
Please do an electronic lead screw conversion video!
Also I feel like you might already know this, but you should be taking your measurements on cold parts. Working them on the lathe heats them up, and distorts the measurements.
If you want to measure hot, create the female part first, because the hole will get slightly bigger as the parts cool (because cold contracts and heat expands).
No, the holes will get larger as the part warms and smaller as it cools.
please tell us if that lead screw actually arrived
Brilliant comparison. I have watched any number of mini lathe "upgrades". I have made the same comments on them all. For all the time and effort and expenditure upgrading them, they could have just bought a bigger/better machine. If you look at everything that came with the PM lathe it is far, far better value, even at 4 times the price.
Great thorough video, thank you!!!!!