I fell off a ladder and fractured my right wrist in the middle of November of 2024. I just wanted to let you know your videos helped get me through a very painful time. I think I have watched them all and am looking forward to more. Thanks! A lot of the stuff you show on your videos I learned while working with old retired Navy Machinist Mates when I worked in the shipyard.
You cannot check out-of-roundness on a lathe. You set your work between two v-blocks and rotate it with an indicator on top. That quill was OD ground and was never out of round, but that’s how you would check.
Why can't you check out-of-roundness by putting the piece between two centers? I understand that you might get a false negative if the centers aren't actually at the center, but can you get a false positive result or a different type of false negative?
@@robertobryk4989 You can even is the centers are not perfectlly aligned but you kinda need to know how to interpret the readings as you move arround the part. Also this dude hammered the spline shaft for 90 minutes so everithing there is no longer straight and round enough to use it as a reference. Also this dude clearlly doesnt have the required knoladge to do this the right way.
YOOOOOO! A proper blast from the past! I miss seeing you work on tools, it's what got me into your channel. I mean, I enjoy watching you work on vehicles, but tool restorations are my absolute favorite thing.
@35:09 My theory is that you oval'ed the cylinder by pounding those wedges into the slot. Slots are designed so you can reduce the diameter by compliant deformation, but aren't much help in expanding it. The more you pounded those wedges, the worse you made your situation. You should have removed the wedges before the honing, as you want the dimensions to be accurate while under operation.
LOL, I was screaming the same thing! I cannot fathom having all of that precision machinery and no precision measuring tools for a situation like this. @@mikerobinson6606
@@mikerobinson6606 I would also have tried marking up the whole surface (either inner or outer) and seeing where the marker gets most erased at the point where it binds. Then, repeat at a different rotation angle.
Cast iron should be " age seasoned " before being machined to prevent problems in dimension changes due to internal stress relief in the casting. it will cause problems over a long period of time in precision parts. I have a mill-drill that was purchased about 1978 BC. ( That is before China. It was manufactured in Taiwan). It worked perfectly for many years before it fell into mostly disuse except for occasional large drilling jobs. I had noticed the quill operation getting tighter over time. About 2010 I had occasion to use it for some light milling. The quill would only move about 2 inches. Detective work revealed that the bore in the casting was no longer round. The problem was especially bad around the Quill down feed gear box. It was warped inward around the gear slot. I used a hole gage for all the measurements and mapped the errors. The judicious use of oiled 1000 grit paper allowed me to remove MUCH LESS than 0.001 inch around this area. The quill then worked perfectly.
@@Pozi_Drive Did you see the part of the video where he moved a wire from H3 to H2 56:40? That was reducing the impedance of the transformer. The adjustment makes the transformer output 1.5KVA regardless of the input voltage, which at the lower voltage, requires more amps.
@frutt5k motors will not work like a resistor. They are designed for specific power and load. If you run a motor at half the voltage it will use double the current. Look at any spec plate on any dual voltage motor and you'll see.
You've increased the amperage draw when you decreased the voltage so you'll have to change the heaters on the thermal overload part of the contactor to match the amp draw you're using now.
This is caused by the 3 phase motor windings being wired differently for the available house voltage. 3ph 220V are wired for triangle connection, which has low resistance as there is only 1 winding between any 2 phases. 3ph 480V are wired for star connection, which has high resistance as there is always 2 windings in series between any 2 phases. A 3ph 480v setup connected to 3ph 240V will have weak axle motors and probably behave strange. A 3ph 240V setup connected to 3ph 480V will pop the fuses or burn out the motors and relays. Some industrial motors have a start circuit that starts the motor in star connection and then switch to triangle connection, once the motor is running.
My family and I used to own several of the 9-J Gorton mills the 1-22 was modeled from. They are in fact super nice mills. Ours had the Bown & Sharpe taper in the spindle. We always wanted one with the No. 40 taper. never got one. The spindle quill is a very tight fit to the housing. One of the mill we had was so new that if we didn't keep lubing the quill, it would get tight and was a nightmare to free up. So make sure to use a ISO 46 or 68 oil in the quill and lubricating of the spindle bearings, too. I highly doubt they are packed with grease. None of ours were. Grease in the spindle bearings will cause the spindle to run hot. You don't get that heat with oil. The power feed motor on the quill feed was always a problem on the Gorton mills. I doubt the quill in your mill was replaced or swapped out with another. Gorton made them to such a high degree of accuracy that interchangeability was no issue. There are no parts available for these mills as far as I know. Gorton was bought out by Milwaukee, later by K & T. I'm not sure who owns them now. As for the brake shoe, they used to be cast iron with a thin layer of asbestos years ago. Any how enjoyed your video. Keep them coming! Ken
Nice to hear from someone that ACTUALLY has experience with one of these mills! I've been hard pressed to find ANYONE that knows anything about them, and the manuals are good, but not perfect! Thanks for commenting, I truly appreciate it!
I didn't think to mention, there are several guys over on Practical Machinists forum that have the 1-22 mills in their shops. Might tune in over there and see if anyone is willing to give some help on the wiring of the mills dealing with that quill feed motor.@@SalvageWorkshop
I couldn't imagine how expensive these machines were back when they were new. Whatever you paid was a great deal. Great job learning as you went along. I found a Burke number 4 milling machine and I have to restore and find parts for it.These are really great machines to have for anyone who does their own work on equipment.
Down feed system: That motor is a "universal" brushed motor, same as most handtools. Speed control is basically a triac controlled "lamp dimmer" type device. That is wired to the armature through reversing switch and appears to be working (from smoke test :)). That leaves the stator, which is either open, or not getting power. That's the two black to blue wires direct to the motor from power box. If the winding is open youll likely need a motor, but I suspect its just not getting power for some other reason. Good luck.
Nice workshop, one advantage to a Bridgeport over your machine is all the parts are still available. Over here in Scotland I have a 3 phase inverter changing 230v Standard here to 440v 3 phase running my 1967 Bridgeport mill. The 40 taper would be stronger I would think than the R8 but for what I do it perfect.Nice to see more old machines coming back to full working order. M😀
After seeing the overall condition of the slide surfaces and all the gobs of grease and oil, I think this is a classic example of too little use and too much lubrication. When you get the electrical bugs figured out, you have got yourself a super nice mill. Another thing that will tell it's condition is the amount of backlash in each of the three axis lead screws. I'm betting that it is minimal. Home run, my friend!
I agree completely! I'll show the runout in the spindle and check the backlash in the next video on this beast, but I'll bet there is pretty close to zero in the ways... I've had some machines that aren't the tightest, but this machine is pretty amazing, especially for it's age! Thanks for watching, I truly appreciate the support!
This pops up in my feed. "Hey I used that machine in High School during the early 90's". 30 seconds later, "this came out of a High School". Lol. Memories so thank you.
Mercedes used to put their engine castings in steel sheds in the mountains for years in Germany to relieve internal stresses. I think they stopped doing it in the 80's or so for monetary reasons. For a couple years the castings would sinter between sub-zero winters and extremely hot summer temps in those steel sheds to relieve internal stresses before they were ever machined. It seems likely the castings for the quill boss have internal stresses from manufacture that have played out and changed the tolerances.
It always amazes me how arm chair machinist/mechanics can criticize someone who fully admits he is not an expect but yet get the thing working and cutting. I guess you all can go out a spend 20 or 39 thousand on a new machine but I congratulate this guy. It;s doing what it is suppose to do so quite your yaking about how he did things wrong. I enjoyed the video
It looked like you install the spindle the other way. From the top. Remove that retainer. That's why they're usually there. Still have about fifty minutes left so, I'm hoping for the best. Definitely a cool mill.
The different colour of the table and the quill housing could possibly indicate that this mill was assembled from a couple of others. Could have used a bore gauge and mic to check the dimensions, but honing it out did the trick.
I love watching this kind of stuff. Finding and restoring old tools is so much fun. I’ve asked this before on other videos you’ve posted, but I think a lot of your followers would be super interested in a video or blog where you talk about strategies to find these types of tools and opportunities.
All that hammering and chiseling, I was seriously concerned about cracking, breaking, mushrooming and bending. Glad it worked out, and hope it’s still is a precision instrument lol. But have no clue as to why the hell it was like that, specially after cleaning.
phosphate grease is my guess .. bound the quill. I've jammed pliers due to using that stuff. I think you did the right thing.. and the honing will give some oil grooves (thata was filled with iron phosphate) Love that funky electrical power.. Amps trip breakers.
Hi, Anytime you change the Voltage, you have to check Every Motor is wired to that Voltage. The Contactor Coil may have the High Leg or 208V going to it, instead of the 120V leg. I suspect the Spindle Lift Motor is Wired to the wrong Voltage. Hope this helps. That’s a really nice Milling Machine. Good Job getting the Spindle freezes up. I’m betting it’s a new Spindle and wasn’t Fitted to the Bore. I’m sure you will figure everything out. I enjoyed the Video.😁👍👍
I had to watch the whole video threw my fingers. I think I had a wee cry at one point. I am glad its running, but I am not sure I am emotionally ready for part 2.
I like people who don't give up when things get hard and figure stuff out. My boss has even LOL when he came to me with something, and after 2 seconds, my head tilted, and he said, You're already working on the fix.
Matt that was turffic you bought it back to life and it runs the way it was made to thank you very much for sharing your time was really great never miss a video how about that old scrap yard you used to go to with those old mills in those different buildings you got a bobcat there I think big red there maybe you could use some parts from there
As many have said, the heaters are one thing to look at, but since you essentially doubled the amps going into everything, you may need to upsize wires as well. Yes they are "easy to reconnect" but rarely are they wired appropriately for the lower voltage/higher amperage. While I also understand, getting it done, it was pretty tough to watch what you were doing for most of the video.
Nice video you figured out the cause of the quill not functioning. Because the motors draw more current at the lower voltage you need to change the heater elements. The N19 heater elements are rated for 2.96 amps and you probably need N26 elements that are rated for 6.26 amps. Check the motor name plate and see what the amp rating is for the lower voltage.
When I saw that old beat-up vise he called a good one for a milling machine, yeah, wow. Everyone has to start somewhere and that's fine as long as you learn from your mistakes. But it's a lot easier to know you don't know and ask someone who does.
When you had the quill in the 3 jaw chuck on the lathe, those 3 jaws are almost never true unless you have a fairly new one. You have to indicate the roundness and lightly tap it in. The one end was out more than the other. That says that it's not in straight. Anyway, use lots of lube on the quill and the ways. Also I recommend that you put the way covers back on the machine. It keeps chips out of the ways and wearing them or making it hard to move the axis of the machine.
Yes, if the quill bore is slightly tapered by design to be more narrow at the end he removed it from, that would explain the difficulty removing it.@@angrywabbit
Absolutely, love what you're doing. Evidently. You may have just a relay that is overheating, but maybe not. Through your trials and tribulations, you always seem to find out what exactly is going on. Hopefully, on the next video, you will find out. Thank you for sharing! 😊
Oh my God. Two maniacs wrecking a beautiful machine. I have been a Macihinist Engineer for 50 years. And it shocked me to watch you Butcher that beast .machine.
The 3 phase power from converter can only be used to run motors that are delta connection, not y, because its a wild leg 3 phase. There seems to be an overload condition due to that and how this particular mill is wired
I got a van Norman duplex mill for free, cause the quill was stuck. I've fixed up a lot of old machining equipment, and for me, 9x out of 10, some well meaning person saw what looked like a grease fitting, and pumped it full of grease, when those tight tolerances want a nice thin oil. I like to hose it down with something that will cut the now old petrified grease, like marvels or diesel. I can't remember the name, but they sell this little tool you fill up with lube, then put it on a petrified grease fitting and whack it with a hammer, it forces the fresh lube in past the crusty grease, and helps start getting it thinned out so you can flush it out. My duplex mill has the monster 5c taper head that can do vertical or horizontal milling, and then it's got a west german knockoff of a j head Bridgeport that attaches to the ram that supports the far end of the horizontal mill cutter spindle. I really like it since I don't have a ton of shop space. I mostly just do engine machining for a guy who restors 1930's ford's, and early willys, bore dirtbike cylinders for the neighbor kids, and work on my own junk. Oh, a slick trick on those van norman mills, they were available with a power feed that ran an indexing dividing head, so you can cut helical gears manually, without cnc! I found a small 10x45" lathe that can fit on my big mill table, you can do some whacky stuff with that combo too.
If you run across a smallish metal lathe, Fanatik Builds channel is looking for one. They are in Canada and I feel like they have the best custom restomod build on the internet. I absolutely love their channel, but they are looking for a metal lathe and I already sold most of my tool.... (sucks to get old). Anyway, thanks for getting back to uploading again. I could tell that last video was over many months, but it's good to see you upload more often here recently.
Came here to say the same. But in the end, his assessment that the ram was a replacement and likely never worked when it was attempted to be installed, his conclusion of honing the cylinder just enough gave a good outcome.
to check if you did any damage to the spindle or if it has out of roundness. use a known good 40 taper collet and a known good straight standard hole gauge ect put a dial test indicator on it and slowly spin to check runout. also most of these style mills used oil for almost everything not grease check if you can scare up an original lubrication chart most of the zerks are probably oil zerks not grease. you may know this already but i thought i would mention it. also i think the bjiur box is an oiler system. the base of my main mill was cast in 1917. converted from horiz to vert with a tree milling products head. still does everything i ask of it and will hold 1/2 a thou if i'm the one running it :)
Good points! He should use the proper oil on every part when he puts machines back together. Including anti seize on bolts/fasteners. (Not lead screws lol)
What kind of oil? Where do you buy a tool to shoot the oil thru a zero fitting? I have never done any maintainence on this sort of machinery and am curious?
@@jimw6991 way oil or spindle oil depending on where it is going. and a standard grease gun will pump oil just as easily as grease if it is a good quality one.
I'm sure the "mystery metal" would have cut much better if the tool was turning in the opposite (right) direction. Since the switch was set to forward my guess would be that 2 of the phases need swapping .
Yeah I wish I would have noticed that, but sometimes in the thick of it you don't notice something like that... I'll switch two of the leads! I'll bet it cuts better!
Change your heaters in your starter, needs to match your input current load. it should stop your tripping. My go to lube/ cleaner for tools and machines is a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone, and it does not take much, and works very well for me. You may very well have egg shaped the housing when you drove the wedges in to the slot for spindle causing it to pinch it. If you run into a situation where you are suspecting run it, take a micrometer and check diameter at 180 degrees on the surface, it will quickly tell you you have an out of round issue. I really enjoyed this video, have done a lot of machine tool repair and I think you did really well with your experience and you have beautiful mill on your hands and installing a DRO on it will make it even better. Thanks for the video sir, if you need machine shop tools I have a boat load of tooling I would let go of.
I never considered atf/acetone as a cleaner... Ive used it to unstick piston rings in engines, but never on machine tools... Ill have to give that a shot, especially since i was recently GIVEN a total of 9 55Gal barrels of brand new ATF (no Joke)...I doubt I egged it by wedging it, the manual specifically says to insert wedges into that space until the entire quill comes out easily... it just never came out, much less easily, hence the pounding! I would possibly be interested in tooling, could you send me an email: salvageworkshop@gmail.com ...As always, thanks for watching, I truly appreciate the support!
If I'm not mistaken the main that you hammered out is a fairly tight area. Build up of old oil possibly grit can hinder the slide of the quill. Because of the tight fit if a upper or lower bearing got overheated it will deform surface.
About 40 years ago someone ran a flycutter on a NEW Bridgeport and sheared the key in the spindle. I had to use a sledgehammer on the drawbar to get the collet out and then grind the key out. Bad situation….. after that the machine would sometimes tighten the collets on the drawbar if you tried heavy cuts.
Sometimes the drawbar is designed to eject the toolholder/collet/ There will be a trapped flange on the drawbar. You don't smack the drawbar to eject the tool
When I had a shop when I was younger I had a Lars-Gorton P1-2 Pantograph Milling machine. It was a wonderful tool. I remember this mill. It was a nice mill.
What a lovely old bit of kit, shame about the overload switching hopefully the paperwork that came with it will have a simple fix. It might even be where its been sat still, might be something simple like the contacts! need cleaning off. 👍
Chances are better than average that something is over tightened causing the quill bore to distort, this is what happens when people who I wouldn't trust with a lawnmower start working on precision assemblies. Not everything requires the torque like you are building a John Deere. I especially love the random grinding, filing, and sanding to everything with a high tolerance. I even more love the part where the cylinder hone made an appearance. After beating the bearings to death, all the sanding, honing and grinding just scrap the machine. I am all for never giving up, but there is a time where you call someone, you passed that time a while ago.
I would just put a transformer to feed the whole machine. Also the Bijur unit is for lubrication to the moving parts and not coolant. You do good work I am sure you have this figured out now. I used to get a cleaner from Cincinatti Milicron the dissolves the swarf on the machine.
I’ll just make a list of what you potentially damaged, outer piece that moves up and down is quill, the part that spins inside is the spindle you beat on that with a head hammer, those are at least class 3 if not 5 bearing, it least they were. Pounding the chisel into the clamping gap bends that cast iron way more than it was designed to. You created a tight spot in the bore by doing that. Those machines were built by K&T at least for some time, they were less expensive than similar sized Bridgeports, HP and drive unit is all pretty much the same so I’m not sure what would have made them cut any better or have more power. I worked as a machine tool rebuilder so I’ve experience in fits, alignment. At some point measuring the two components to determine there actual fit would have been the place to start. The way of sanding the quill was a joke. With that course of abrasive you could have easily removed an excessive amount of metal. Three jaw chucks are inherently inaccurate. If there were/are center holes in the shaft that would have given you a more accurate reading at least before you beat on the splined end of the shaft with a hard hammer. Hire an electrician before you destroy something or hurt someone. It was painful to watch you work. The wear on a variable speed drive is on the sides of the belt not the flat surface. It’s making some odd noises for sure, good luck
I fail to imagine how, unless there was some internal stress present beforehand, pulling an arc open can decrease its curvature radius locally (I'd expect the local curvature radius to increase nonuniformly -- depending mostly on the thickness that varies with position around the circle -- but not to decrease anywhere). Do you have a drawing or something else that would help me understand how the opposite can happen?
It’s a simple concept, the split is put in the cast iron housing to allow the lock bolt to draw a precision bored and honed fit to be closed down enough, Perhaps 0.001”, to clamp it in position. Keep in mind the lock lever is 3” to 4”:long, limiting the amount of torque you can apply against a precision ground quill. You beat multiple wedges into that slit expanding the cast iron significantly more then you ever could withe the lock lever due to its limited torque and the fact it is tightening against a precision ground surface. The localized application of force causes compression of the casting. The compression is taking place approximately opposite the expansion because the force of the wedges is pushing out in opposite directions. Since cast iron has minimal characteristics that allow it to bend and return to its original shape deformation at the point of compression is likely to take place. You can see a similar result in the splined spindle drive shaft you beat on with a hard hammer. You hit on its end yet it deformed in an area that was greater in length than its diameter demonstrating impact force is spread through material and not simply localized. Since there was no corrosion or accumulation of dry oil on the outside of the quill experience would tell me something else was causing it to not slide out. Measuring tools would be the first tools used to determine IF there is mechanical interference between the quill and casting. The presence of deformation at the lower quill opening would not surprise me. Such deformations would be related to the method of disassembly and likely no be the cause of the initial problem.
@@takedeadaim8671 I agree that if you apply compressive stress, you'll expand the material perpendicular to the stress applied. However, it seems to me that the whole inner surface and vicinity will have tension loads applied to it, and only the outer surface and vicinity will be under compression. Do I get this wrong, or does existence of compressive load far from the inner surface affect inner surface's curvature?
@@robertobryk4989 Simply put stress will occur through the thickness of the part and can cause distortion. The only real way to "see" this is to measure with a bore gauge at multiple places around the part. My comment(s) are to help educate and share my experience which spans many years of repairing equipment and doing machine work.
@@robertobryk4989 , Of course, it does, take a piece of 1" wide bar stock and bend it 90 degrees without heat. Both sides will show signs of stress one caused by compression and the other by expansion. What makes you think the same thing will not happen to any piece of metal when subjected to the same type of force? Not a believer yet? take that same piece of flat stock and bend it back, does it go straight or is it deformed. Before you say you can make the bar stock straight again in a press remember you bent a precision surface and had you the measuring tools and knowledge to use them you would have seen that before you oversized the hole.
It’s interesting to watch someone who has no idea of what he’s doing, trying to disassemble something entirely incorrectly. I try to get as much information as I can first. If I can’t find anything, I ask people who might have some idea, or they might know someone who does.
@@edcrego8487well, apparently tickling it with a feather was not working for getting it to move. Sometimes in such a case plan B is the only other option. I was cringing watching it being beaten out like that, but I am not going to fault him for it. Where are you seen at in the video helping him to fix the problem? Just like me, you weren't there. He did what he thought was his only option. And guess what? As brutal as it was, IT WORKED. Yes, he could have asked on online forums and may have gotten a few suggestions over a couple of months. He could have found someone who does that kind of work on equipment and paid several hundreds of dollars or even a thousand dollars or more to hire someone to do it. Or he could have left it alone and not functioning. Or he could do what he did. It's his machine to do what he wants with.
I'm a 50 + year maint electrician. You might be able to find 3 3-phase transformer that will change the available voltage to the voltage you need. The transformers are usually multi-volt. Most large cities have used machine sale houses. Even having to pay shipping will end up being a ton cheaper than a new one.
9/3/23; big wow & congrats on a) acquiring this big professional machine & b) successfully troubleshooting the ...kinda complex ...electrical set up with all its colors, star connector, no..delta connection..no 'heaters'...I very easily got lost watching you hop-scotch/jump from switch-to-switch high left then down to low right..clearly you are pretty close safe knowledgeable operation. Always interesting to observe your 'can do' attitude. Stay safe & carry on!👍⚙️🔧😊
From the little we saw of the cutter and I might be wrong but I think its spinning forward when in reverse and reverse when in forward, though it may be an optical elusion.
It is too late for your project unfortunately. Measure the bore on the machine for concentricity and the shaft for both diameter & straightness. If work needs to be done. Try to do the corrective measures on the shaft. It could be remachined and or remade if necessary. Once the casting is altered it is very difficult and expensive or impossible to repair depending on what damage has been done. Get the machine maintenance manual and go from there. If you have the manual and are still needing to use sledge hammers to disassemble precision assemblys you can expect on reassembly the opperating tollerances to be well out of usefull range for precision work. Good luck I hope you get it working.
I appreciate the input! I do have the manuals from vintagemachinery.org, and even after going through them I couldnt find any way to disassemble THIS machine without the hammer, no idea why other than my hypothesis, but once it went back together it runs beautifully... I'll show you in the next video how true this beast still spins!
If you need a new variable speed pulley or sheaves, Speed Selector makes pulleys that replace the Reeves, Hi-Lo, TB Woods and Lovejoy pulleys that went out of business or got bought. Most are in stock or Speed Selector will custom make if needed. They have an actual engineering department; very helpful.
Is it my imagination or is the spindle directions reversed on the switch? It looked like the milling head you were using was going the wrong direction and the cutter inserts were not supported and could possibly shatter. Nice to see you get the mill running.
As noted below, the difference color of paint indicates that those parts came from different machines. It looks like you've got a Frankenstein of a machine there.
The first thing you need to do with that vise is remove the swivel base and throw it away. You'll never see a swivel base on a vise in a machine shop they just add a spot for less rigidity.
I really enjoy all your videos. Really looking forward to you repairing more machines. It’s easy to say “you should have…” but when you are elbow deep, you do what you can with what you have available. Don’t get discouraged, keep up the hard work!
Funny how people complain but never say how that would have gotten it out! Are they really that bored with their Life, that they have to criticize People who are Living theirs??
Excellent job. You should be proud. I don't know you and I am😂 just to watch your channel. I'm the same way in respect when it comes to restoration.... I always say... I'm just going to do this or that... And saying, "I'm just going to do a little." And it turns into a complete overhaul. 👏!
Maybe the students swapped quills between two machines during maintenance training. They are probably matched for roundness like pistons at the factory.
Unlikely, these are production machines for one and the teacher, unless an absolute idiot, would never have let the students pound a quill in like that.
First of all, no grease on the Waze. The only thing that should get grease is the knee screw in the worm drive for tilting the head. are you sure the bezoar is not an oiling system ?
According to the Andrew Camarata handbook to remove a stuck shaft you have to weld a link to it attach a chain to an excavator and pull full force or your doing it wrong🤣👍
You may or may not need to change the overload devices in the control box. First check the wire size from the control box to the motor. If the machine was wired with a dedicated 440 volt purpose it may be undersized for 220 volts. Second check the controller transformer to see if it can be configured for 220 volts. Then you can determine what if anything will need modified. If the transformer can be rewired to 220 volts and the motors on the machine can be rewired to 220 it will most likely be usable as is. The machine will have overloads that are sized for the wiring it has. The motor loads will be limited to about 55 percent or so of the maximum recommend load. Back when I worked in a shop, we never ran machines at 100 percent load. I have a Sharp VH 25 that was 440 volts original. I rewired the transformer, rewired the vertical motor, the horizontal motor, coolant pump motor, the Z power feed to 220 volts and it has worked fine for years now. The X power cross feed was a two speed 440 dedicated motor and is still wired 440 as it doesn't have the option to rewire to 220. The local motor rewind shop that I have used for years filled me in on how this can work, or you can find a 440 transformer and keep it on 440 volt. If you run, it as is and are kicking out the overloads you then will need to start upgrading or reducing work load.
![Bridgebort Milling Machine [Rescue]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zGv7MkdIP_w/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm always happy when I see old equipment being saved. When it is gone, it is gone forever.
I fell off a ladder and fractured my right wrist in the middle of November of 2024. I just wanted to let you know your videos helped get me through a very painful time. I think I have watched them all and am looking forward to more. Thanks! A lot of the stuff you show on your videos I learned while working with old retired Navy Machinist Mates when I worked in the shipyard.
You cannot check out-of-roundness on a lathe. You set your work between two v-blocks and rotate it with an indicator on top. That quill was OD ground and was never out of round, but that’s how you would check.
Why can't you check out-of-roundness by putting the piece between two centers? I understand that you might get a false negative if the centers aren't actually at the center, but can you get a false positive result or a different type of false negative?
@@robertobryk4989 You can even is the centers are not perfectlly aligned but you kinda need to know how to interpret the readings as you move arround the part. Also this dude hammered the spline shaft for 90 minutes so everithing there is no longer straight and round enough to use it as a reference. Also this dude clearlly doesnt have the required knoladge to do this the right way.
YOOOOOO! A proper blast from the past! I miss seeing you work on tools, it's what got me into your channel. I mean, I enjoy watching you work on vehicles, but tool restorations are my absolute favorite thing.
Well you're in luck I have a few more coming! I Love working on old tools and restoring tools as well!
same here,
I was surprised you didn' break the quill housing pounding those shims in . I'm glad you got it working.
Im surprised he didnt fucked the bearings by pounding in the spline shaft.
@35:09 My theory is that you oval'ed the cylinder by pounding those wedges into the slot. Slots are designed so you can reduce the diameter by compliant deformation, but aren't much help in expanding it. The more you pounded those wedges, the worse you made your situation.
You should have removed the wedges before the honing, as you want the dimensions to be accurate while under operation.
Oh I can guarantee he did at least that much
That was my thought exactly. Watching the video I found myself screaming "measure the damn cylinder already!"
LOL, I was screaming the same thing! I cannot fathom having all of that precision machinery and no precision measuring tools for a situation like this. @@mikerobinson6606
@@mikerobinson6606 !!!
@@mikerobinson6606 I would also have tried marking up the whole surface (either inner or outer) and seeing where the marker gets most erased at the point where it binds. Then, repeat at a different rotation angle.
Cast iron should be " age seasoned " before being machined to prevent problems in dimension changes due to internal stress relief in the casting. it will cause problems over a long period of time in precision parts. I have a mill-drill that was purchased about 1978 BC. ( That is before China. It was manufactured in Taiwan). It worked perfectly for many years before it fell into mostly disuse except for occasional large drilling jobs. I had noticed the quill operation getting tighter over time. About 2010 I had occasion to use it for some light milling. The quill would only move about 2 inches. Detective work revealed that the bore in the casting was no longer round. The problem was especially bad around the Quill down feed gear box. It was warped inward around the gear slot. I used a hole gage for all the measurements and mapped the errors. The judicious use of oiled 1000 grit paper allowed me to remove MUCH LESS than 0.001 inch around this area. The quill then worked perfectly.
When you change from 440 to 220 the current will double. You have to change the heaters in the starter to match the new current.
that's right!!!!
Halve. The impedance remains the same. Current = voltage / impedance.
@@Pozi_Drive Did you see the part of the video where he moved a wire from H3 to H2 56:40? That was reducing the impedance of the transformer. The adjustment makes the transformer output 1.5KVA regardless of the input voltage, which at the lower voltage, requires more amps.
@frutt5k motors will not work like a resistor. They are designed for specific power and load. If you run a motor at half the voltage it will use double the current. Look at any spec plate on any dual voltage motor and you'll see.
Yep, that's exactly what I wrote. @@cincinnatusaurelius8371
You've increased the amperage draw when you decreased the voltage so you'll have to change the heaters on the thermal overload part of the contactor to match the amp draw you're using now.
This is caused by the 3 phase motor windings being wired differently for the available house voltage.
3ph 220V are wired for triangle connection, which has low resistance as there is only 1 winding between any 2 phases.
3ph 480V are wired for star connection, which has high resistance as there is always 2 windings in series between any 2 phases.
A 3ph 480v setup connected to 3ph 240V will have weak axle motors and probably behave strange.
A 3ph 240V setup connected to 3ph 480V will pop the fuses or burn out the motors and relays.
Some industrial motors have a start circuit that starts the motor in star connection and then switch to triangle connection, once the motor is running.
Yeah, you can run it unloaded all day and the heaters wouldn't trip. But put it under some load, and there ya go.
@@CXensation I have virtually no idea of what you just said...but your level of understanding leaves with agreeing you more than anything.
This
An oldie and a goodie
My family and I used to own several of the 9-J Gorton mills the 1-22 was modeled from. They are in fact super nice mills. Ours had the Bown & Sharpe taper in the spindle. We always wanted one with the No. 40 taper. never got one. The spindle quill is a very tight fit to the housing. One of the mill we had was so new that if we didn't keep lubing the quill, it would get tight and was a nightmare to free up. So make sure to use a ISO 46 or 68 oil in the quill and lubricating of the spindle bearings, too. I highly doubt they are packed with grease. None of ours were. Grease in the spindle bearings will cause the spindle to run hot. You don't get that heat with oil. The power feed motor on the quill feed was always a problem on the Gorton mills. I doubt the quill in your mill was replaced or swapped out with another. Gorton made them to such a high degree of accuracy that interchangeability was no issue. There are no parts available for these mills as far as I know. Gorton was bought out by Milwaukee, later by K & T. I'm not sure who owns them now. As for the brake shoe, they used to be cast iron with a thin layer of asbestos years ago.
Any how enjoyed your video. Keep them coming! Ken
Nice to hear from someone that ACTUALLY has experience with one of these mills! I've been hard pressed to find ANYONE that knows anything about them, and the manuals are good, but not perfect!
Thanks for commenting, I truly appreciate it!
I didn't think to mention, there are several guys over on Practical Machinists forum that have the 1-22 mills in their shops. Might tune in over there and see if anyone is willing to give some help on the wiring of the mills dealing with that quill feed motor.@@SalvageWorkshop
I couldn't imagine how expensive these machines were back when they were new. Whatever you paid was a great deal. Great job learning as you went along. I found a Burke number 4 milling machine and I have to restore and find parts for it.These are really great machines to have for anyone who does their own work on equipment.
Down feed system:
That motor is a "universal" brushed motor, same as most handtools. Speed control is basically a triac controlled "lamp dimmer" type device. That is wired to the armature through reversing switch and appears to be working (from smoke test :)).
That leaves the stator, which is either open, or not getting power. That's the two black to blue wires direct to the motor from power box. If the winding is open youll likely need a motor, but I suspect its just not getting power for some other reason. Good luck.
Nice workshop, one advantage to a Bridgeport over your machine is all the parts are still available. Over here in Scotland I have a 3 phase inverter changing 230v Standard here to 440v 3 phase running my 1967 Bridgeport mill. The 40 taper would be stronger I would think than the R8 but for what I do it perfect.Nice to see more old machines coming back to full working order. M😀
This has got to be one of the only YT vids of a Gorton milling machine in the flesh. Really outstanding stuff man. I still have goose bumps 🙂
This mill of yours is bringing back memories of Metal Shop and Advanced MS from High School in 1991-92 (my junior year)!
After seeing the overall condition of the slide surfaces and all the gobs of grease and oil, I think this is a classic example of too little use and too much lubrication. When you get the electrical bugs figured out, you have got yourself a super nice mill. Another thing that will tell it's condition is the amount of backlash in each of the three axis lead screws. I'm betting that it is minimal. Home run, my friend!
I agree completely! I'll show the runout in the spindle and check the backlash in the next video on this beast, but I'll bet there is pretty close to zero in the ways... I've had some machines that aren't the tightest, but this machine is pretty amazing, especially for it's age! Thanks for watching, I truly appreciate the support!
This pops up in my feed. "Hey I used that machine in High School during the early 90's". 30 seconds later, "this came out of a High School". Lol. Memories so thank you.
Mercedes used to put their engine castings in steel sheds in the mountains for years in Germany to relieve internal stresses. I think they stopped doing it in the 80's or so for monetary reasons. For a couple years the castings would sinter between sub-zero winters and extremely hot summer temps in those steel sheds to relieve internal stresses before they were ever machined. It seems likely the castings for the quill boss have internal stresses from manufacture that have played out and changed the tolerances.
this is what i was thinkng, sometimes machines just sitting around can settle out and deform slightly, but enough for things to bind
I have a Bridgeport milling machine. I still have the 3 ph. motor, but made an adapter plate for 220/110 1 1/2 GE single ph. motor. Works fine.😊
Top marks for perseverance sir.
It always amazes me how arm chair machinist/mechanics can criticize someone who fully admits he is not an expect but yet get the thing working and cutting. I guess you all can go out a spend 20 or 39 thousand on a new machine but I congratulate this guy. It;s doing what it is suppose to do so quite your yaking about how he did things wrong. I enjoyed the video
Looks like that machine was well taken care of and then forgotten. I really love old machines and tools. Thanks for saving this one.
Use a bore gauge to see what’s out of round
That was my thought. Then mic the quill.
It looked like you install the spindle the other way. From the top. Remove that retainer. That's why they're usually there. Still have about fifty minutes left so, I'm hoping for the best. Definitely a cool mill.
I have the same model Gorton and like it. There are reprint manuals available which I found to be helpful in understanding the mill.
The different colour of the table and the quill housing could possibly indicate that this mill was assembled from a couple of others. Could have used a bore gauge and mic to check the dimensions, but honing it out did the trick.
What an absolutely gorgeous mill. You Sir are very lucky to have such a machine.
Too bad he's hammering on it like a baboon.
*The machine is not lucky to have him.*
I love watching this kind of stuff. Finding and restoring old tools is so much fun.
I’ve asked this before on other videos you’ve posted, but I think a lot of your followers would be super interested in a video or blog where you talk about strategies to find these types of tools and opportunities.
this isnt restoring, this is destroying.
Being a retired toolmaker I almost cried watching this.
Oh that’s a nice find. At a HS they only learn on it, not really use it. So just some cleaning and oiling, and it should be as good as new. Congrats 👍
Assuming the kids didn't destroy it in the learning process, I completely agree!
All that hammering and chiseling, I was seriously concerned about cracking, breaking, mushrooming and bending. Glad it worked out, and hope it’s still is a precision instrument lol. But have no clue as to why the hell it was like that, specially after cleaning.
phosphate grease is my guess .. bound the quill. I've jammed pliers due to using that stuff. I think you did the right thing.. and the honing will give some oil grooves (thata was filled with iron phosphate) Love that funky electrical power.. Amps trip breakers.
Glad you finally put your safety glasses on. Great job.🇺🇸👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️✅✅✅✅✅🫵🏼
Hi, Anytime you change the Voltage, you have to check Every Motor is wired to that Voltage. The Contactor Coil may have the High Leg or 208V going to it, instead of the 120V leg. I suspect the Spindle Lift Motor is Wired to the wrong Voltage. Hope this helps. That’s a really nice Milling Machine. Good Job getting the Spindle freezes up. I’m betting it’s a new Spindle and wasn’t Fitted to the Bore. I’m sure you will figure everything out. I enjoyed the Video.😁👍👍
man, i love your videos, but this was like watching a butcher with a chainsaw trimming a bonsai...
Great analogy! I love it...........
Thanks for watchin!
haha that's great! reminds me of a barber cutting hair with hedge clippers😁
I had to watch the whole video threw my fingers. I think I had a wee cry at one point. I am glad its running, but I am not sure I am emotionally ready for part 2.
You think that spindle cartridge is supposed to be taken out and put back in from the top?
I like people who don't give up when things get hard and figure stuff out. My boss has even LOL when he came to me with something, and after 2 seconds, my head tilted, and he said, You're already working on the fix.
Matt that was turffic you bought it back to life and it runs the way it was made to thank you very much for sharing your time was really great never miss a video how about that old scrap yard you used to go to with those old mills in those different buildings you got a bobcat there I think big red there maybe you could use some parts from there
You need to change the overloads. Thats what those reset buttons you're pressing are. Since you changed the voltage you need to change the overloads.
yup i figured the same, less voltage, more amps needed!
As many have said, the heaters are one thing to look at, but since you essentially doubled the amps going into everything, you may need to upsize wires as well. Yes they are "easy to reconnect" but rarely are they wired appropriately for the lower voltage/higher amperage. While I also understand, getting it done, it was pretty tough to watch what you were doing for most of the video.
Nice video you figured out the cause of the quill not functioning.
Because the motors draw more current at the lower voltage you need to change the heater elements. The N19 heater elements are rated for 2.96 amps and you probably need N26 elements that are rated for 6.26 amps. Check the motor name plate and see what the amp rating is for the lower voltage.
When I saw that old beat-up vise he called a good one for a milling machine, yeah, wow. Everyone has to start somewhere and that's fine as long as you learn from your mistakes. But it's a lot easier to know you don't know and ask someone who does.
That is one amazing mill, there looks like has some energy problem! Thanks for sharing
When you had the quill in the 3 jaw chuck on the lathe, those 3 jaws are almost never true unless you have a fairly new one. You have to indicate the roundness and lightly tap it in. The one end was out more than the other. That says that it's not in straight. Anyway, use lots of lube on the quill and the ways. Also I recommend that you put the way covers back on the machine. It keeps chips out of the ways and wearing them or making it hard to move the axis of the machine.
I think you’re supposed to remove the quill assembly from the top
Absolutely my first thought.
After several minutes of watching Matt struggle I wondered if it comes out the top myself.
True!! but I think his assumption was correct that it was either a non original quill or quill head causing the problems.
Absolutely correct. Remove the circlip that is clearly visible @35:13 and take it out through the top.
Yes, if the quill bore is slightly tapered by design to be more narrow at the end he removed it from, that would explain the difficulty removing it.@@angrywabbit
Absolutely, love what you're doing. Evidently. You may have just a relay that is overheating, but maybe not. Through your trials and tribulations, you always seem to find out what exactly is going on. Hopefully, on the next video, you will find out. Thank you for sharing! 😊
Oh my God. Two maniacs wrecking a beautiful machine. I have been a Macihinist Engineer for 50 years. And it shocked me to watch you Butcher that beast .machine.
You have a real talent for taking apart things and making them work. Thanks for sharing with the world!
The 3 phase power from converter can only be used to run motors that are delta connection, not y, because its a wild leg 3 phase. There seems to be an overload condition due to that and how this particular mill is wired
I'm curious how he has 208 to neutral. Some investigation should be done.
Delta bastard leg.
Great Channel,Great job on the vertical mill.
I got a van Norman duplex mill for free, cause the quill was stuck. I've fixed up a lot of old machining equipment, and for me, 9x out of 10, some well meaning person saw what looked like a grease fitting, and pumped it full of grease, when those tight tolerances want a nice thin oil. I like to hose it down with something that will cut the now old petrified grease, like marvels or diesel. I can't remember the name, but they sell this little tool you fill up with lube, then put it on a petrified grease fitting and whack it with a hammer, it forces the fresh lube in past the crusty grease, and helps start getting it thinned out so you can flush it out. My duplex mill has the monster 5c taper head that can do vertical or horizontal milling, and then it's got a west german knockoff of a j head Bridgeport that attaches to the ram that supports the far end of the horizontal mill cutter spindle. I really like it since I don't have a ton of shop space. I mostly just do engine machining for a guy who restors 1930's ford's, and early willys, bore dirtbike cylinders for the neighbor kids, and work on my own junk. Oh, a slick trick on those van norman mills, they were available with a power feed that ran an indexing dividing head, so you can cut helical gears manually, without cnc!
I found a small 10x45" lathe that can fit on my big mill table, you can do some whacky stuff with that combo too.
If you run across a smallish metal lathe, Fanatik Builds channel is looking for one. They are in Canada and I feel like they have the best custom restomod build on the internet. I absolutely love their channel, but they are looking for a metal lathe and I already sold most of my tool.... (sucks to get old). Anyway, thanks for getting back to uploading again. I could tell that last video was over many months, but it's good to see you upload more often here recently.
You could have blued it to find the tight spots. The blue will transfer / rub off in the tight spots.
Absolutely what I would have tried
yes prussian blue or at least layout dye lol
I second that, the only way to determine where it was binding.
Came here to say the same. But in the end, his assessment that the ram was a replacement and likely never worked when it was attempted to be installed, his conclusion of honing the cylinder just enough gave a good outcome.
Yes, even a pencil's graphite or a Sharpie. Without that the marks are there but a magnifying glass is needed.
to check if you did any damage to the spindle or if it has out of roundness. use a known good 40 taper collet and a known good straight standard hole gauge ect put a dial test indicator on it and slowly spin to check runout. also most of these style mills used oil for almost everything not grease check if you can scare up an original lubrication chart most of the zerks are probably oil zerks not grease. you may know this already but i thought i would mention it. also i think the bjiur box is an oiler system. the base of my main mill was cast in 1917. converted from horiz to vert with a tree milling products head. still does everything i ask of it and will hold 1/2 a thou if i'm the one running it :)
Good points! He should use the proper oil on every part when he puts machines back together. Including anti seize on bolts/fasteners. (Not lead screws lol)
What kind of oil? Where do you buy a tool to shoot the oil thru a zero fitting? I have never done any maintainence on this sort of machinery and am curious?
@@jimw6991 way oil or spindle oil depending on where it is going. and a standard grease gun will pump oil just as easily as grease if it is a good quality one.
Well done on getting this to run, great effort.
I'm sure the "mystery metal" would have cut much better if the tool was turning in the opposite (right) direction. Since the switch was set to forward my guess would be that 2 of the phases need swapping .
I agree with you. Forward should be clockwise.
Yeah I wish I would have noticed that, but sometimes in the thick of it you don't notice something like that... I'll switch two of the leads! I'll bet it cuts better!
only those of us who have made the same mistake are qualified to comment @@SalvageWorkshop
Change your heaters in your starter, needs to match your input current load. it should stop your tripping. My go to lube/ cleaner for tools and machines is a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone, and it does not take much, and works very well for me. You may very well have egg shaped the housing when you drove the wedges in to the slot for spindle causing it to pinch it. If you run into a situation where you are suspecting run it, take a micrometer and check diameter at 180 degrees on the surface, it will quickly tell you you have an out of round issue. I really enjoyed this video, have done a lot of machine tool repair and I think you did really well with your experience and you have beautiful mill on your hands and installing a DRO on it will make it even better. Thanks for the video sir, if you need machine shop tools I have a boat load of tooling I would let go of.
I never considered atf/acetone as a cleaner... Ive used it to unstick piston rings in engines, but never on machine tools... Ill have to give that a shot, especially since i was recently GIVEN a total of 9 55Gal barrels of brand new ATF (no Joke)...I doubt I egged it by wedging it, the manual specifically says to insert wedges into that space until the entire quill comes out easily... it just never came out, much less easily, hence the pounding! I would possibly be interested in tooling, could you send me an email: salvageworkshop@gmail.com ...As always, thanks for watching, I truly appreciate the support!
If I'm not mistaken the main that you hammered out is a fairly tight area. Build up of old oil possibly grit can hinder the slide of the quill. Because of the tight fit if a upper or lower bearing got overheated it will deform surface.
About 40 years ago someone ran a flycutter on a NEW Bridgeport and sheared the key in the spindle. I had to use a sledgehammer on the drawbar to get the collet out and then grind the key out. Bad situation….. after that the machine would sometimes tighten the collets on the drawbar if you tried heavy cuts.
Sometimes the drawbar is designed to eject the toolholder/collet/ There will be a trapped flange on the drawbar. You don't smack the drawbar to eject the tool
Very nice progress, your doing alot of work and bringing an old machine back from the dead. Sell your hammers?
When I had a shop when I was younger I had a Lars-Gorton P1-2 Pantograph Milling machine. It was a wonderful tool. I remember this mill. It was a nice mill.
What a lovely old bit of kit, shame about the overload switching hopefully the paperwork that came with it will have a simple fix. It might even be where its been sat still, might be something simple like the contacts! need cleaning off. 👍
Love your perseverance. Youre helper is going to have sore arms from swinging hammer. Keep up the good work.
I am happy for you. It appears your hypothesis was correct. Nice job!
Chances are better than average that something is over tightened causing the quill bore to distort, this is what happens when people who I wouldn't trust with a lawnmower start working on precision assemblies. Not everything requires the torque like you are building a John Deere. I especially love the random grinding, filing, and sanding to everything with a high tolerance. I even more love the part where the cylinder hone made an appearance. After beating the bearings to death, all the sanding, honing and grinding just scrap the machine. I am all for never giving up, but there is a time where you call someone, you passed that time a while ago.
for real, it was a precision machine. until this ape got a hold of it. what a shame.
Really appreciate your videos and the length of the video. Thanks..
A lot of those old machinery like this used light oil in the zirk fittings not grease that would catch and hold dirt and such.
I would just put a transformer to feed the whole machine. Also the Bijur unit is for lubrication to the moving parts and not coolant. You do good work I am sure you have this figured out now. I used to get a cleaner from Cincinatti Milicron the dissolves the swarf on the machine.
I’ll just make a list of what you potentially damaged, outer piece that moves up and down is quill, the part that spins inside is the spindle you beat on that with a head hammer, those are at least class 3 if not 5 bearing, it least they were. Pounding the chisel into the clamping gap bends that cast iron way more than it was designed to. You created a tight spot in the bore by doing that. Those machines were built by K&T at least for some time, they were less expensive than similar sized Bridgeports, HP and drive unit is all pretty much the same so I’m not sure what would have made them cut any better or have more power. I worked as a machine tool rebuilder so I’ve experience in fits, alignment. At some point measuring the two components to determine there actual fit would have been the place to start. The way of sanding the quill was a joke. With that course of abrasive you could have easily removed an excessive amount of metal. Three jaw chucks are inherently inaccurate. If there were/are center holes in the shaft that would have given you a more accurate reading at least before you beat on the splined end of the shaft with a hard hammer.
Hire an electrician before you destroy something or hurt someone. It was painful to watch you work. The wear on a variable speed drive is on the sides of the belt not the flat surface. It’s making some odd noises for sure, good luck
I fail to imagine how, unless there was some internal stress present beforehand, pulling an arc open can decrease its curvature radius locally (I'd expect the local curvature radius to increase nonuniformly -- depending mostly on the thickness that varies with position around the circle -- but not to decrease anywhere). Do you have a drawing or something else that would help me understand how the opposite can happen?
It’s a simple concept, the split is put in the cast iron housing to allow the lock bolt to draw a precision bored and honed fit to be closed down enough, Perhaps 0.001”, to clamp it in position. Keep in mind the lock lever is 3” to 4”:long, limiting the amount of torque you can apply against a precision ground quill.
You beat multiple wedges into that slit expanding the cast iron significantly more then you ever could withe the lock lever due to its limited torque and the fact it is tightening against a precision ground surface. The localized application of force causes compression of the casting. The compression is taking place approximately opposite the expansion because the force of the wedges is pushing out in opposite directions. Since cast iron has minimal characteristics that allow it to bend and return to its original shape deformation at the point of compression is likely to take place.
You can see a similar result in the splined spindle drive shaft you beat on with a hard hammer. You hit on its end yet it deformed in an area that was greater in length than its diameter demonstrating impact force is spread through material and not simply localized.
Since there was no corrosion or accumulation of dry oil on the outside of the quill experience would tell me something else was causing it to not slide out. Measuring tools would be the first tools used to determine IF there is mechanical interference between the quill and casting. The presence of deformation at the lower quill opening would not surprise me. Such deformations would be related to the method of disassembly and likely no be the cause of the initial problem.
@@takedeadaim8671
I agree that if you apply compressive stress, you'll expand the material perpendicular to the stress applied. However, it seems to me that the whole inner surface and vicinity will have tension loads applied to it, and only the outer surface and vicinity will be under compression. Do I get this wrong, or does existence of compressive load far from the inner surface affect inner surface's curvature?
@@robertobryk4989 Simply put stress will occur through the thickness of the part and can cause distortion. The only real way to "see" this is to measure with a bore gauge at multiple places around the part. My comment(s) are to help educate and share my experience which spans many years of repairing equipment and doing machine work.
@@robertobryk4989 , Of course, it does, take a piece of 1" wide bar stock and bend it 90 degrees without heat. Both sides will show signs of stress one caused by compression and the other by expansion. What makes you think the same thing will not happen to any piece of metal when subjected to the same type of force? Not a believer yet? take that same piece of flat stock and bend it back, does it go straight or is it deformed. Before you say you can make the bar stock straight again in a press remember you bent a precision surface and had you the measuring tools and knowledge to use them you would have seen that before you oversized the hole.
This is what it looks like when a heavy equipment mechanic gets percision machines. Ive never seen sledgehammers used on a mill before. Good luck.
It’s interesting to watch someone who has no idea of what he’s doing, trying to disassemble something entirely incorrectly. I try to get as much information as I can first. If I can’t find anything, I ask people who might have some idea, or they might know someone who does.
Lighten up Mr. Knowitall. He didn't try to disassemble it, he disassembled it. Buy your own used mill and make your own video so I can pick on you.
Well true but this guy just gets his biggest hammer out its going to come out one way or another
@@edcrego8487 yeah. My concern is that the “other” is going to be will loss of accuracy.
@@edcrego8487well, apparently tickling it with a feather was not working for getting it to move. Sometimes in such a case plan B is the only other option. I was cringing watching it being beaten out like that, but I am not going to fault him for it. Where are you seen at in the video helping him to fix the problem? Just like me, you weren't there. He did what he thought was his only option. And guess what? As brutal as it was, IT WORKED. Yes, he could have asked on online forums and may have gotten a few suggestions over a couple of months. He could have found someone who does that kind of work on equipment and paid several hundreds of dollars or even a thousand dollars or more to hire someone to do it. Or he could have left it alone and not functioning. Or he could do what he did. It's his machine to do what he wants with.
@@melgrosswhat else would you suggest to get a Badly Stuck Spindle out???? Let’s hear your Smartas$ solution!!!!
I'm a 50 + year maint electrician. You might be able to find 3 3-phase transformer that will change the available voltage to the voltage you need. The transformers are usually multi-volt. Most large cities have used machine sale houses. Even having to pay shipping will end up being a ton cheaper than a new one.
I believe that whole thing is supposed to come out the top.
Not according to the manual!
@@SalvageWorkshop *In another comment reply, you say the manual doesn't specify. Which is it?* 🤨🤨🤨
9/3/23; big wow & congrats on a) acquiring this big professional machine & b) successfully troubleshooting the ...kinda complex ...electrical set up with all its colors, star connector, no..delta connection..no 'heaters'...I very easily got lost watching you hop-scotch/jump from switch-to-switch high left then down to low right..clearly you are pretty close safe knowledgeable operation. Always interesting to observe your 'can do' attitude. Stay safe & carry on!👍⚙️🔧😊
From the little we saw of the cutter and I might be wrong but I think its spinning forward when in reverse and reverse when in forward, though it may be an optical elusion.
Such a motivational video. Motivates me to want to buy new instead of used.
This looks like the mill I learned on in high school nice!
As the UK TV programme _The Young Ones_ said "This calls for a very subtle blend of psychology and extreme violence".
You Decreased the Voltage so you increased the amps. You need different heaters in the contactor.
It is too late for your project unfortunately. Measure the bore on the machine for concentricity and the shaft for both diameter & straightness. If work needs to be done. Try to do the corrective measures on the shaft. It could be remachined and or remade if necessary. Once the casting is altered it is very difficult and expensive or impossible to repair depending on what damage has been done. Get the machine maintenance manual and go from there. If you have the manual and are still needing to use sledge hammers to disassemble precision assemblys you can expect on reassembly the opperating tollerances to be well out of usefull range for precision work.
Good luck I hope you get it working.
I appreciate the input! I do have the manuals from vintagemachinery.org, and even after going through them I couldnt find any way to disassemble THIS machine without the hammer, no idea why other than my hypothesis, but once it went back together it runs beautifully... I'll show you in the next video how true this beast still spins!
@@SalvageWorkshop If Keith Rucker ever sees this, it would probably give him a heart attack.
Sliding that ring up and down the shaft looked dirty!! 😂😂
Yeah I noticed that when I was editing it! lol
If you need a new variable speed pulley or sheaves, Speed Selector makes pulleys that replace the Reeves, Hi-Lo, TB Woods and Lovejoy pulleys that went out of business or got bought. Most are in stock or Speed Selector will custom make if needed. They have an actual engineering department; very helpful.
Is it my imagination or is the spindle directions reversed on the switch? It looked like the milling head you were using was going the wrong direction and the cutter inserts were not supported and could possibly shatter. Nice to see you get the mill running.
He was 100% cutting the wrong direction
As noted below, the difference color of paint indicates that those parts came from different machines. It looks like you've got a Frankenstein of a machine there.
The first thing you need to do with that vise is remove the swivel base and throw it away. You'll never see a swivel base on a vise in a machine shop they just add a spot for less rigidity.
“Blacksmith impersonates machinist and destroys beautiful precision machine.”
I really enjoy all your videos. Really looking forward to you repairing more machines. It’s easy to say “you should have…” but when you are elbow deep, you do what you can with what you have available. Don’t get discouraged, keep up the hard work!
Gortons were really nice machines, I ran one for a while that was WWII era machine.
Being an industrial mechanic this is painful to watch these guys pound away at the quill. Say goodbye to those spindle bearings.
I guess we'll see, won't we!
Funny how people complain but never say how that would have gotten it out! Are they really that bored with their Life, that they have to criticize People who are Living theirs??
The high school should still be teaching with these machines..
This was beyond painful to watch. Quit driving wedges and pounding on it with a sledgehammer. You need a new “Quill skirt “
Check for high spots when you hone it. It may have damage from a hit on the outside.
Don't worry about honing it. It will remove minimal material.
Glad to see you got “Commissioner Gordon” in the Salvage cave. Every hero needs an ally.
Excellent job. You should be proud. I don't know you and I am😂 just to watch your channel.
I'm the same way in respect when it comes to restoration.... I always say... I'm just going to do this or that... And saying, "I'm just going to do a little." And it turns into a complete overhaul. 👏!
Man what an awesome machine great fix
Maybe the students swapped quills between two machines during maintenance training. They are probably matched for roundness like pistons at the factory.
That's pretty much aligned with what my thoughts are on what may have happened... i guess we'll never know!
Unlikely, these are production machines for one and the teacher, unless an absolute idiot, would never have let the students pound a quill in like that.
more likely its been crashed by a student. a machine of that type wouldnt have a custom fit "matched" spindle
First of all, no grease on the Waze. The only thing that should get grease is the knee screw in the worm drive for tilting the head. are you sure the bezoar is not an oiling system ?
Did you ever try putting in the spindle from the top?
According to the Andrew Camarata handbook to remove a stuck shaft you have to weld a link to it attach a chain to an excavator and pull full force or your doing it wrong🤣👍
that may come yet, keep watching!
Or use a chainsaw
You may or may not need to change the overload devices in the control box. First check the wire size from the control box to the motor. If the machine was wired with a dedicated 440 volt purpose it may be undersized for 220 volts. Second check the controller transformer to see if it can be configured for 220 volts. Then you can determine what if anything will need modified. If the transformer can be rewired to 220 volts and the motors on the machine can be rewired to 220 it will most likely be usable as is. The machine will have overloads that are sized for the wiring it has. The motor loads will be limited to about 55 percent or so of the maximum recommend load. Back when I worked in a shop, we never ran machines at 100 percent load. I have a Sharp VH 25 that was 440 volts original. I rewired the transformer, rewired the vertical motor, the horizontal motor, coolant pump motor, the Z power feed to 220 volts and it has worked fine for years now. The X power cross feed was a two speed 440 dedicated motor and is still wired 440 as it doesn't have the option to rewire to 220. The local motor rewind shop that I have used for years filled me in on how this can work, or you can find a 440 transformer and keep it on 440 volt. If you run, it as is and are kicking out the overloads you then will need to start upgrading or reducing work load.