Counter freeze seems a bit less powerful than I initially thought. If, for example, you freeze then he counter freezes, then you threaten the king with a jump, he cannot address the original threat and has to move or protect the king. So, at 35:46, if you moved the queen to b3 he would have lost his queen despite the counter freeze. I think there's many such tactics.
game 6 his king takes your queen and he freezes your bishop, then either you freeze the king in which case his pawn blocks your bishop (and I don't think you have jump back), or you freeze the pawn and the king escapes, or if you freeze his pawn and king he still has jump so can use his bishop to block yours (as you won't have jump back).
in this line, after king takes and freeze (1 turn passed), white just play anything like d4 and freezes e6 square, freezing the king and any blocking possibility. Edit: But then you have Bishop jump to e6 block (2 turns passed) and jump still not replenished, you're right even though you didn't mention the whole line But as one guy suggested at the game chat, i think just Rf8 and freeze queen also wins, because you can't counterfreze the rook without freezing your own queen, there's literally no square, you would need an 9th rank in order too freeze it without freezing your own queen.
@lucasmatsuoca mentioned this in a reply but at 40:30 there are actually 2 ways back can live and win the queen: 1. rf8 and freeze queen, since white can’t freeze both rook and king without also freezing their own queen 2. kxf7 and freeze bishop, white can try to freeze @e7 to lock king and potential blocking d7 pawn in place, but black has an alternative block with be6 by jumping the frozen d7 pawn, and whites jump has just barely not recharged so they can’t jump with bxf7 to take the king In both cases black lives up a queen, so black probably shouldn’t have resigned haha
Rf8 doesn't work. It doesn't matter whether white freezes their own queen, since their queen was already frozen by black for that move. White just freezes the rook and king (and their own queen) and makes a random move, and then on their next move gets to take the king.
@@ultrawaffle you’re right, white can freeze the whole situation with the king and rook and the queen itself, an the freeze is not only used to avoid being captured but too keep the situation for the next turn. For some reason I completely miss this, i think i missed it because the freeze is almost always used to avoid a capture , or make a threat for the next turn, and is rare to see it being use for preserving a threat for later, my brain only thought for that turn. So I guess there was only 1 way out with that other line.
@@MatsMatsuo Counterfreezes are much more potent than the first freeze, because your opponent will be temporarily unable to respond with another freeze of their own. In fact, if black had played freeze@f7 Rf8, white doesn't even have to counterfreeze right away and can instead just play Be6 (or move any other piece, really). Then after black is forced to play their only legal move Rxf7, white checkmates with freeze@d8 Bxf7#. Freeze@c3 Kxf7 wins the queen and was the only out for black here.
i know counterfreezess are better, this is an obvious take, because they nullify the first one , i just had an oversigth of the concept of preserving a threat instead of defending or making a new one. @@Davidnmusic
@@jacobgarby199 ahhh got it. Just got confused because of the early mate where the game ended automatically. Hadn't considered that it only does that if there aren't playable moves to take the king. That's nuts!
That's super confusing. If checkmate is not a win condition, why did the game end at 1:38? You should play on until someone resigns or the win condition is met, i.e. the king gets taken. The game ending at 1:40 is as if normal games would end automatically if there's a mate in one.
23:16 here there is a key concept of spell chess, white's queen is threatning to jump take king, and although jump spell is not replenished, he can use a freeze and threat to take other stuff cause you'll have to counter freeze and in meanwhile the jump spell replenished. So freeze can be used to force your opponent to stall turns if you a have a big jump threat. Eric lost this game becausse of this sort of tatical concept.
23:46 Eric had Q(jump)xh2#, right? Or can you only jump over opponent's pieces? EDIT: oh nvm, he jumped over that pawn just 2 moves later. So yeah, he missed a mate.
@@MatsMatsuo In chess, checkmate is a position in which a player's king is directly attacked by an opponent's piece or pawn and has no possible move to escape the check. It immediately ends the game. Unless spell chess has redefined what a checkmate is, white has no time to jump and take the king, the game would already be over.
@@theMosen this is not chess, is spell chess, maybe you didn't watch the video before commenting? because there was multiple instance of capturing the king, which is the goal of spell chess....
you could also just play the exact game against someone or an secundary account and check out yourself that you are wrong, you don't need to explain me what a checkmate is and waste your and my time, lol, i find funny how people can be so confidently wrong sometimes@@theMosen
@@MatsMatsuo What do you mean, "maybe you didn't watch the video"? I provided a timestamp and went on to describe and comment on things that happened in the video, OBVIOUSLY I watched the video. You should take the energy you put into being condescending and direct it instead towards understanding the points your interlocutor is making. What part of "Unless spell chess has redefined what a checkmate is" did you not understand? In fact I looked up the rules of spell chess, they are not at all very comprehensive but they do say that apart from the spells and the ability to end the game by capturing the king, normal chess rules apply. So we must assume that checkmate has NOT been redefined, which is consistent with the game ending checkmate we see at 1:37. Notice the game didn't stick around until the King was taken, it was ended by checkmate. If checkmate ends the game, then your opponent doesn't get the opportunity to use a spell to capture your king next move, because the game is already over.
Whenever I play video games, I'm always trying to hold onto my important resources. "Maybe I'll need them at a later time." I feel like that us how you are with your spells in spell chess
Almost in all scenarios, there is no mate, the game only ends when the king is captured, in this case, black king would be captured first. The only "Checkmate" where the game ends without taking the king is like in the 1st game, where you checkmate and the opponent has absolute no way to avoid defeat next turn. @@howe01man
Yeah, I think it doesn't work because Eric's King would die first. It's like he's already in 'check', due to the threat of the enemy Queen jumping and taking his king. And you can't just ignore a check to mate your opponent
Spell chess is a lot of fun, but I find the openings to just be annoying. There’s so many traps that as black you are basically forced to just hunker down with all your pawns on light squares for multiple moves before the game really starts
I don't understand the rules, in game 3 when Eric can jump over his own f4 pawn to checkmate white king with his queen on h2, is it Checkmate or is it not because white can jump over Eric's bishop on f8 technically "taking black's king before black takes white's king" ?
spell chess doesn't end in normal checkmate, you need to capture the king to win the game. White would need one more move than black to capture the king if they played Qa2
Do you have a timestamp for the specific position? Edit: I guess you mean 23:46? Like you said, the problem with Qxh2 is that the opponent's queen can capture Eric's king on the next move. Checkmate only happens when one player can't move out of check, even with the use of spells, or, like in this case, capture the other king first. Which is quite confusing. I don't understand why they didn't remove checks and checkmate completely, since you can still be indirectly in check due to spells (like Eric is at 23:46) but still make a move that allows your king to be captured.
Eric was not "checkmated" on 1st game, he was "Spell chess checkmated", because no matter what, white captures king next turn, both players have no freeze. If you just "checkmate" sometimes you can escape with freeze and the game continues. But ChessCom should let the game play on until king captures honestly in all scenarios, and avoid this confusion, it makes no sense to auto declare win if white can volutarly don't win. @@nephandi2316
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Spell chess traps are pure wizardry. Appear out of nowhere and are easy to miss.
Sounds like the perfect variant for Eric.
Counter freeze seems a bit less powerful than I initially thought. If, for example, you freeze then he counter freezes, then you threaten the king with a jump, he cannot address the original threat and has to move or protect the king. So, at 35:46, if you moved the queen to b3 he would have lost his queen despite the counter freeze. I think there's many such tactics.
game 6 his king takes your queen and he freezes your bishop, then either you freeze the king in which case his pawn blocks your bishop (and I don't think you have jump back), or you freeze the pawn and the king escapes, or if you freeze his pawn and king he still has jump so can use his bishop to block yours (as you won't have jump back).
in this line, after king takes and freeze (1 turn passed), white just play anything like d4 and freezes e6 square, freezing the king and any blocking possibility.
Edit: But then you have Bishop jump to e6 block (2 turns passed) and jump still not replenished, you're right even though you didn't mention the whole line
But as one guy suggested at the game chat, i think just Rf8 and freeze queen also wins, because you can't counterfreze the rook without freezing your own queen, there's literally no square, you would need an 9th rank in order too freeze it without freezing your own queen.
@lucasmatsuoca mentioned this in a reply but at 40:30 there are actually 2 ways back can live and win the queen:
1. rf8 and freeze queen, since white can’t freeze both rook and king without also freezing their own queen
2. kxf7 and freeze bishop, white can try to freeze @e7 to lock king and potential blocking d7 pawn in place, but black has an alternative block with be6 by jumping the frozen d7 pawn, and whites jump has just barely not recharged so they can’t jump with bxf7 to take the king
In both cases black lives up a queen, so black probably shouldn’t have resigned haha
I saw rf8, but not kxf7. This variant is wild.
Rf8 doesn't work. It doesn't matter whether white freezes their own queen, since their queen was already frozen by black for that move. White just freezes the rook and king (and their own queen) and makes a random move, and then on their next move gets to take the king.
@@ultrawaffle you’re right, white can freeze the whole situation with the king and rook and the queen itself, an the freeze is not only used to avoid being captured but too keep the situation for the next turn. For some reason I completely miss this, i think i missed it because the freeze is almost always used to avoid a capture , or make a threat for the next turn, and is rare to see it being use for preserving a threat for later, my brain only thought for that turn. So I guess there was only 1 way out with that other line.
@@MatsMatsuo Counterfreezes are much more potent than the first freeze, because your opponent will be temporarily unable to respond with another freeze of their own.
In fact, if black had played freeze@f7 Rf8, white doesn't even have to counterfreeze right away and can instead just play Be6 (or move any other piece, really). Then after black is forced to play their only legal move Rxf7, white checkmates with freeze@d8 Bxf7#.
Freeze@c3 Kxf7 wins the queen and was the only out for black here.
i know counterfreezess are better, this is an obvious take, because they nullify the first one , i just had an oversigth of the concept of preserving a threat instead of defending or making a new one. @@Davidnmusic
"Me wizard me spin me IM me win"
fogged reference?
@@henrydawson584 you got it
Am I missing something at 23:50? Isn't queen jump to h2 just mate? Since freeze is on cd?
almost but white can immediately jump take black's king
@@jacobgarby199 ahhh got it. Just got confused because of the early mate where the game ended automatically. Hadn't considered that it only does that if there aren't playable moves to take the king. That's nuts!
That's super confusing. If checkmate is not a win condition, why did the game end at 1:38? You should play on until someone resigns or the win condition is met, i.e. the king gets taken. The game ending at 1:40 is as if normal games would end automatically if there's a mate in one.
23:16 here there is a key concept of spell chess, white's queen is threatning to jump take king, and although jump spell is not replenished, he can use a freeze and threat to take other stuff cause you'll have to counter freeze and in meanwhile the jump spell replenished. So freeze can be used to force your opponent to stall turns if you a have a big jump threat. Eric lost this game becausse of this sort of tatical concept.
23:46 Eric had Q(jump)xh2#, right? Or can you only jump over opponent's pieces?
EDIT: oh nvm, he jumped over that pawn just 2 moves later. So yeah, he missed a mate.
There is no “checkmate” in that scenario white just jumps and takes the black king.
@@MatsMatsuo In chess, checkmate is a position in which a player's king is directly attacked by an opponent's piece or pawn and has no possible move to escape the check. It immediately ends the game. Unless spell chess has redefined what a checkmate is, white has no time to jump and take the king, the game would already be over.
@@theMosen this is not chess, is spell chess, maybe you didn't watch the video before commenting? because there was multiple instance of capturing the king, which is the goal of spell chess....
you could also just play the exact game against someone or an secundary account and check out yourself that you are wrong, you don't need to explain me what a checkmate is and waste your and my time, lol, i find funny how people can be so confidently wrong sometimes@@theMosen
@@MatsMatsuo What do you mean, "maybe you didn't watch the video"? I provided a timestamp and went on to describe and comment on things that happened in the video, OBVIOUSLY I watched the video. You should take the energy you put into being condescending and direct it instead towards understanding the points your interlocutor is making. What part of "Unless spell chess has redefined what a checkmate is" did you not understand? In fact I looked up the rules of spell chess, they are not at all very comprehensive but they do say that apart from the spells and the ability to end the game by capturing the king, normal chess rules apply. So we must assume that checkmate has NOT been redefined, which is consistent with the game ending checkmate we see at 1:37. Notice the game didn't stick around until the King was taken, it was ended by checkmate. If checkmate ends the game, then your opponent doesn't get the opportunity to use a spell to capture your king next move, because the game is already over.
with the jump spell, people get to know the power of cannon in xiangqi😂
Whenever I play video games, I'm always trying to hold onto my important resources. "Maybe I'll need them at a later time." I feel like that us how you are with your spells in spell chess
In game 5 you missed a nice queen trap by going Ng4 after you moved Bd7.
At 23:45, isn't jump Qxh2 mate?
Or not, because white can jump take king and that "overrides" mate?
Almost in all scenarios, there is no mate, the game only ends when the king is captured, in this case, black king would be captured first.
The only "Checkmate" where the game ends without taking the king is like in the 1st game, where you checkmate and the opponent has absolute no way to avoid defeat next turn.
@@howe01man
@@howe01manoh man I didn't even think of that. I wonder if it would register mate or if that would override.
Yeah, I think it doesn't work because Eric's King would die first. It's like he's already in 'check', due to the threat of the enemy Queen jumping and taking his king. And you can't just ignore a check to mate your opponent
That fifth game was amazing! Yer a wizard, eric
So many blunders from both sides. It's like watching 500 Elo chess. Amazing when IMs become beginners again.
Rg1 stops shortside castling
this looks fun!
Spell chess is a lot of fun, but I find the openings to just be annoying. There’s so many traps that as black you are basically forced to just hunker down with all your pawns on light squares for multiple moves before the game really starts
I don't understand the rules, in game 3 when Eric can jump over his own f4 pawn to checkmate white king with his queen on h2, is it Checkmate or is it not because white can jump over Eric's bishop on f8 technically "taking black's king before black takes white's king" ?
spell chess doesn't end in normal checkmate, you need to capture the king to win the game. White would need one more move than black to capture the king if they played Qa2
@@yo-ef7ri But in the 1st game Eric was checkmated
Do you have a timestamp for the specific position?
Edit: I guess you mean 23:46? Like you said, the problem with Qxh2 is that the opponent's queen can capture Eric's king on the next move. Checkmate only happens when one player can't move out of check, even with the use of spells, or, like in this case, capture the other king first. Which is quite confusing.
I don't understand why they didn't remove checks and checkmate completely, since you can still be indirectly in check due to spells (like Eric is at 23:46) but still make a move that allows your king to be captured.
Eric was not "checkmated" on 1st game, he was "Spell chess checkmated", because no matter what, white captures king next turn, both players have no freeze. If you just "checkmate" sometimes you can escape with freeze and the game continues. But ChessCom should let the game play on until king captures honestly in all scenarios, and avoid this confusion, it makes no sense to auto declare win if white can volutarly don't win.
@@nephandi2316
@@nephandi2316 I completely forgot about that. In that case, I have no idea
You're a Wizard harry ! I'm a what ?! ... good evening first years
at 23:51 couldn't he have jumped the f4 pawn and mated in h2?
that’s what i was thinking
@@infernaux818 opponent would jump over the bishop and take his king, since blacks king falls first its not checkmate
more spell chess content please
Oh hi Eric. Im rarely this early to a video. Love what you do. Thanks for doing it.
40:40 I think he can play Rf8 and freeze the queen, and you can't counter freeze the rook without also freezing your own queen. :O
I took the rook every single time
YES SPELL CHESS (sorry, just enthusiastic!)
Would love to see Rosen vs Nakamura playing this variant 🙂
Dev plays coc
Chess board looks irritating and confusing