Agree 100%. We're all human and make mistakes. I'm more than happy to hear someone out when they disagree with something we say, but.... we are people too, so, HOW they approach it means a LOT! Thankfully, our community is awesome!
@CitySteadingBrews At 30c, it's a bit under 0.5% less dense, so yeah, you're right. Like you've said, anyone who can distinguish an ABV difference at that scale is lying or magic. This should be good enough that home brewers can safely disregard it. That's one part in two hundred.
Fun and educational as always! 👍 I just found out that either my hydrometer is perfectly miscalibrated, or something in my water is perfectly off, lol! I measured the density of filtered water at room temperature of 22°, and got a perfect 1.000 result...even tho the hydrometer is calibrated for 15°. 😂 Happy New Year! 🥂
Your statement here is correct, just not containing all information. Destilled water test at calibration Temperature saya anything only about the offset of his hydrometer. If you want to be sure it is working properly, you have to test it on at least 3 gravity points, than you are able to check its sensitivity as well. After that if you are repeating the test, you would be able to determinenits uncertainty, GRR and al the statistic parameters that describe a measurmenet device and method, but it is a whole scientific area 😅 so take the densitiy of sugar, ethanol and water, make 3 different mixes (or more) in the entire range you want to use youre measurement device, drop it in, take a reading and make a difference function :) It is always fun for me, calibrating devices around my home :)
I personally use 2 hydrometers that are constantly 2 points off of each other and when taking my readings I *usually* get consistent readings (2 point difference) between them.
Perhaps salt is the culprit. I had a friend during school in a small farming town growing up. His family were farmers and had their own water well. It was super salty (to my taste). Whenever I visited them, if I had iced tea or kool-aid I couldn't get over the salty flavor, but since they lived with it, they had grown accustomed to it. My family had our own water well too and it was once tested and was unusually high in sulphur (and other minerals) which we had grown accustomed to.
In my experience, the offset is indeed due to faulty calibration rather than temperature. The first 2 hydrometers i bought were from aliexpress. They came as a pair, so from the same manufacturer, etc. I tested them both with my tap water and it turned out one gave a value of 0.996 while the other gave 0.991. Now that i have a better hydrometer, i read 1.002 on my tap water (though I did not test the new one side by side with the old ones to make sure the temperature is the same, but my houses room temp does not fluctuate much and even then, it would not make much of a difference). Perhaps the treatment of the water can make a significant difference, I dont really have any "evidence" for this.
I actually thought I had misunderstood my early instructions and the temperature coefficient. Thanks for this I feel a lot better. I wasn't laying away awake nights though. I Agree those small difference are relatively insignificant. Very helpful.
Generally speaking (not knowing the specifics of his situation), I think a mis-calibrated hydrometer is most likely. When I first started buying my brewing gear, I bought 3 hydrometers, mostly because I figure there are only two kinds of brewers...those who have shattered a hydrometer, and those that haven't *yet*. But, this also prompted me to compare them. Given everything I'd read at that point, I expected their calibrations to be measurably different - by a couple points or something, at least. I was pleasantly very surprised to find all three hydrometers were less than a point off from each other, and, given that I measured distilled water at the stated calibration temp, that they were all (to the best of my eye's ability to see) perfectly in calibration. Members of my homebrew club have had *wildly* differing experiences so I figure I just got lucky. Still, it's an interesting exercise to check a hydrometer's calibration.
some water companies use calcium hydroxide, calcium hypochlorite, calcium oxide, calcium chloride, calcium carbonate. they affect ph and may skew initial hydrometer reading. distilled water is ph7. some systems add chlorine or make the ph above 8.5 to prevent growth. there are many differences in people tap water, recipes recommended bottled spring water for a reason.
I don't think, that the water density has anything to do with some salts in the water and with the pH. Most importantly - water is the most dense at 4C - above and below it is less dense.
You fine sir are an extremely rare RUclips content creator. Most are narcissistic and would never admit they’re wrong especially on RUclips. BravÖ happy new year🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Just getting started and I've been watching your videos for a couple months. Thanks for the great info. I do have one weird question. Have you ever tried snowcone syrup concentrate for flavoring? I force carbonate water and use the unsweetened concentrate mixed with citric acid and sucralose to make my sodas. Any idea if that would work for brewing? The company I use has a LOT of different flavors that taste great. Thanks for what you do!!
My hydrometer came from a kit from amazon. I used 16.9 fluid oz bottles of Poland spring water from dollar general. I just took the temperature of the water and it is 63°F. That is what it would have been the other day as well. I just took the gravity reading of my water again and it is still 1.008 at 63°F.
I made my wife confirm the reading, and she thought it was odd as well. I'm guessing faulty equipment. Next time I go to the store I am going to grab a gallon of distilled water and test that. If that is still off then I'm going to replace the hydrometer. Thanks everyone and happy new year.
When I first started I broke a hydrometer after the first reading and bought a new one. When I checked again, the value was off quite a bit (the two disagreed). I have had much better luck with my new one.
1.108 TO 1.008 is the exact same thing as 1.100 to 1.000. Its probably a mix of hydrometer calibration accuracy and something in his water. Like people have said, its hard to get a dead on hydrometer when they are mass produced. In the ball park is usually good enough.
Everyone is wrong once and a while what makes it right or wrong is how the person responds or corrects themselves. If I may give a shout-out or my two cents When you do a primary fermentation take two stages of old wood that you don't need. Place them under the edge of the bucket or little big mouth bubblers so as it ferments the yeast( lee's) drops down and will be deeper on one side and shallower on the side that has the wood under the bottom edge. When you rack it place the container down flat like normal but have the shallower side with the lee's towards you so the racking cane will be in the shallow side and you will transfer a lot less Lee's in the condition phase which means more product. After you do this a couple times it becomes so much easier .
Yeah, the only thing that'd get you is if you like your berry meads at 1.020 at your temp, then a brew done later at a higher temp would be noticeably different. Still get drank in this household, tho.
Not that it matters, but it always stuck with me that the density of water reaches it's peak at 4 degrees C, or 39.2 F. This is the point right before the hexagonal crystal structure of ice forms that is less dense than water and; therefore, floats.
Reading would matter if you were targeting a specific final gravity. You have commented before on a preference for sweetness level based on the final gravity. But then again, if you know it is calibrated off, and you can correct it, the. That really doesn’t matter at all.
I wonder if Floride or Chlorine may change water density, apparently chlorine can increase water density I have no idea if it can make that big of a difference
Just informative, water get denser at 4ºC, lower them that and de density starts to decrease due to complex atomic interections, that's why ice floats and in a lake the coldest water is in the bottom. Whem we talk about water having a density of 1g/cm³ is at 4ºC, water at 25ºC is in fact 0,997g/cm³, a minisclue amount that can not explain the specific gravity in the ocasion. The best explanation in my view is a poorly calibrated hydrometer, in fact my is of by 0.004 points.
Honestly, I wouldn't even worry if it said 1.08 as long as the end result tasted right, after 20+ years of wine making I check the start sg and when it is cleared and tastes good write whatever the end reading is ignoring temperatue and all that kerfuffle, I'm not selling the stuff so I don't need an accurate alcohol measurement, within 1% is fine.
Can't find my other comment here. Bang on 1.000 with german tap water, 23 °C. We have quite low mineral content where I live. 1.008 must be a wrong reading. That would be half the salinity of the atlantic ocean. Maybe it's as simple as the scale moved inside the hydrometer?
I would believe that water would lose density with temperature until it loses all density and turns to steam. Conversely, I would believe that water would become more dense as temperature decreased until it becomes a solid.
So I accidentally bought this raspberry juice that turned out to be a probiotic raspberry juice with lactobacillus cultures. How do you think th a that'll go?.
Actually... most likely it does. It means the hydrometer is miscalibrated in many cases, so that miscalibration would carry over to other readings as well.
@@CitySteadingBrews Yes, but when something is miscalibrated it doesn't mean it's always the exact same amount off. Example: a miscalibrated thermometer might always be 3 degrees high. But it might only be 3 degrees high when it's 60 degrees but it's actually 5 degrees high when it's 80 and then it'll be 9 degrees high when it's 100.
Normally it means the paper is moved or the markings are incorrect or the weight is different. There are calculators to make the adjustments for temperature changes. I've yet to see one do a sliding scale of miscalibration though.
OMG! Brian messed up? 🤣😂 I don't think so. The difference is NOT a BIG deal. We end up with good brews but Brian always changes his thinking when corrected.
Temperature and density are inversely proportional so as temperature increases density reduces due to the law of thermal expansion but it’s also reversed at 0c cause of ice lattice structure. It’s makes sense scientifically, at lower temperatures there’s less entropy so hydrogen bonds between molecules are stronger hence why it’s denser, and at higher temperatures there’s less hydrogen bonds between molecules. That why when water is cold is doesn’t run as fast as boiled water. Lmao let me not get too deep into fluid dynamics I could be here all day 😂😂😂😂
gravity really doesn't matter. I have never measured before the mead is finished and use a DACT (Digital Alcohol Concentration Tester) on the finished product.
Now I am curious what exact product you're using! Also, knowing the sg has less to do with alcohol content and more to do with making a healthy fermentation.
This is a lot of math😮 makes my head spin.. to early in the new year for this.. well he lives in Poland right.. I sepose the water is colder there then by you in Florida. But maybe it could also be water quality and or the calibration of hydrometer.. I think he needs to get a friend with hydrometer and after he teasers his water with his hydrometer his friend must do a measurement also. If it's still the 08 at end for both then maybe water quality or temp. If his is 08 and the friend is 00 it's his hydrometer. Get a new one buddy yours is defective.
Wonder how far my Marzen beer will be out.... SG was taken around 30c degrees when I pitched the yeast, FG will be taken at 10-12c degrees. Knowing is half the battle! haha
See the original video here: ruclips.net/video/sy5iUh8vf20/видео.html
(You might want to pin this.)
Doh! Thought I did!
It’s nice to have a good community where we can correct one another and not get mad at each other about it
Agree 100%. We're all human and make mistakes. I'm more than happy to hear someone out when they disagree with something we say, but.... we are people too, so, HOW they approach it means a LOT! Thankfully, our community is awesome!
Healthy debate has become a lost skill/art. It's really sad.
I try, but the other issue is that text is sometimes hard to interpret intent and meaning.
Thanks for the come back. It's all very helpful.
This is why 4c is the standard temperature for measuring water volume/density. At any temperature higher or lower, water is less dense.
According to the calculater it's the same, so the difference must be small.
@CitySteadingBrews At 30c, it's a bit under 0.5% less dense, so yeah, you're right. Like you've said, anyone who can distinguish an ABV difference at that scale is lying or magic. This should be good enough that home brewers can safely disregard it. That's one part in two hundred.
mad props for making a video like this so happy i found this channel haha. You've all been a tremendous help as i've gotten started, thank ya'll!
Thanks for the kind words and support!
For months, I was always wondering when you would get to an actual calibration video. Well done!
Honestly it just not crucial. Most aren't that far off and a point or three means almost nothing especially if you always use the same hydrometer.
Fun and educational as always! 👍
I just found out that either my hydrometer is perfectly miscalibrated, or something in my water is perfectly off, lol!
I measured the density of filtered water at room temperature of 22°, and got a perfect 1.000 result...even tho the hydrometer is calibrated for 15°. 😂
Happy New Year! 🥂
Your statement here is correct, just not containing all information. Destilled water test at calibration Temperature saya anything only about the offset of his hydrometer. If you want to be sure it is working properly, you have to test it on at least 3 gravity points, than you are able to check its sensitivity as well. After that if you are repeating the test, you would be able to determinenits uncertainty, GRR and al the statistic parameters that describe a measurmenet device and method, but it is a whole scientific area 😅 so take the densitiy of sugar, ethanol and water, make 3 different mixes (or more) in the entire range you want to use youre measurement device, drop it in, take a reading and make a difference function :) It is always fun for me, calibrating devices around my home :)
I personally use 2 hydrometers that are constantly 2 points off of each other and when taking my readings I *usually* get consistent readings (2 point difference) between them.
😀👍
I had to tune in just because you said you were wrong!
We love you.
lol.
Thanks for the research and for explaining it simply.
Glad to be of service!
The highest density of water is at approximately 4°C (39.2°F). Any temperature higher, or lower will have a lower density.
Yup, but it still read 1.007.
Perhaps salt is the culprit. I had a friend during school in a small farming town growing up. His family were farmers and had their own water well. It was super salty (to my taste). Whenever I visited them, if I had iced tea or kool-aid I couldn't get over the salty flavor, but since they lived with it, they had grown accustomed to it. My family had our own water well too and it was once tested and was unusually high in sulphur (and other minerals) which we had grown accustomed to.
That is interesting. Could be!
In my experience, the offset is indeed due to faulty calibration rather than temperature. The first 2 hydrometers i bought were from aliexpress. They came as a pair, so from the same manufacturer, etc. I tested them both with my tap water and it turned out one gave a value of 0.996 while the other gave 0.991. Now that i have a better hydrometer, i read 1.002 on my tap water (though I did not test the new one side by side with the old ones to make sure the temperature is the same, but my houses room temp does not fluctuate much and even then, it would not make much of a difference). Perhaps the treatment of the water can make a significant difference, I dont really have any "evidence" for this.
I actually thought I had misunderstood my early instructions and the temperature coefficient. Thanks for this I feel a lot better. I wasn't laying away awake nights though. I Agree those small difference are relatively insignificant. Very helpful.
Generally speaking (not knowing the specifics of his situation), I think a mis-calibrated hydrometer is most likely. When I first started buying my brewing gear, I bought 3 hydrometers, mostly because I figure there are only two kinds of brewers...those who have shattered a hydrometer, and those that haven't *yet*. But, this also prompted me to compare them. Given everything I'd read at that point, I expected their calibrations to be measurably different - by a couple points or something, at least. I was pleasantly very surprised to find all three hydrometers were less than a point off from each other, and, given that I measured distilled water at the stated calibration temp, that they were all (to the best of my eye's ability to see) perfectly in calibration.
Members of my homebrew club have had *wildly* differing experiences so I figure I just got lucky. Still, it's an interesting exercise to check a hydrometer's calibration.
Yup, I think it's a badly calibrated hydrometer.
some water companies use calcium hydroxide, calcium hypochlorite, calcium oxide, calcium chloride, calcium carbonate. they affect ph and may skew initial hydrometer reading. distilled water is ph7. some systems add chlorine or make the ph above 8.5 to prevent growth. there are many differences in people tap water, recipes recommended bottled spring water for a reason.
I don't think, that the water density has anything to do with some salts in the water and with the pH. Most importantly - water is the most dense at 4C - above and below it is less dense.
@@dominikmjschachtsiek5378 it measures density, water density does have alot to deal with dissolved minerals
I clicked here in a panic thinking the “how to read a hydrometer” videos from the past were wrong!
I learned to read them from you lol
Nope, nothing like that!
thanks guys, only just watched these two
back to back
hilarious 😀
You fine sir are an extremely rare RUclips content creator. Most are narcissistic and would never admit they’re wrong especially on RUclips. BravÖ happy new year🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thanks. I'm a rebel 😀👍
I think I remember Jesse from Still It had a hairline fracture in one of his hydrometers that allowed moisture in and made it inaccurate.
That would do it!
Learning together. Group hug! 🤗
Happy New Year 🎆
Just getting started and I've been watching your videos for a couple months. Thanks for the great info. I do have one weird question. Have you ever tried snowcone syrup concentrate for flavoring? I force carbonate water and use the unsweetened concentrate mixed with citric acid and sucralose to make my sodas. Any idea if that would work for brewing? The company I use has a LOT of different flavors that taste great. Thanks for what you do!!
As a flavoring it should work just fine.
@@CitySteadingBrews Thank you for the quick response.
My first thermometer was off by 10F, so having a Hydrometer off by as much as .008 is easy to imagine.
My hydrometer came from a kit from amazon. I used 16.9 fluid oz bottles of Poland spring water from dollar general. I just took the temperature of the water and it is 63°F. That is what it would have been the other day as well. I just took the gravity reading of my water again and it is still 1.008 at 63°F.
I made my wife confirm the reading, and she thought it was odd as well. I'm guessing faulty equipment. Next time I go to the store I am going to grab a gallon of distilled water and test that. If that is still off then I'm going to replace the hydrometer. Thanks everyone and happy new year.
I'm thinking it's calibration of the hydrometer. That's the best idea on this.
When I first started I broke a hydrometer after the first reading and bought a new one. When I checked again, the value was off quite a bit (the two disagreed). I have had much better luck with my new one.
Yup, they do vary.
1.108 TO 1.008 is the exact same thing as 1.100 to 1.000. Its probably a mix of hydrometer calibration accuracy and something in his water. Like people have said, its hard to get a dead on hydrometer when they are mass produced. In the ball park is usually good enough.
Yup, that's what I was saying, lol.
Everyone is wrong once and a while what makes it right or wrong is how the person responds or corrects themselves.
If I may give a shout-out or my two cents
When you do a primary fermentation take two stages of old wood that you don't need. Place them under the edge of the bucket or little big mouth bubblers so as it ferments the yeast( lee's) drops down and will be deeper on one side and shallower on the side that has the wood under the bottom edge. When you rack it place the container down flat like normal but have the shallower side with the lee's towards you so the racking cane will be in the shallow side and you will transfer a lot less Lee's in the condition phase which means more product.
After you do this a couple times it becomes so much easier .
That's great if you never have to move them and don't have a dozen fermenters!
Happy new year!🎉❤
Yeah, the only thing that'd get you is if you like your berry meads at 1.020 at your temp, then a brew done later at a higher temp would be noticeably different. Still get drank in this household, tho.
Not that it matters, but it always stuck with me that the density of water reaches it's peak at 4 degrees C, or 39.2 F. This is the point right before the hexagonal crystal structure of ice forms that is less dense than water and; therefore, floats.
That’s interesting, I had forgotten that!
Off topic from the video but can I use the Sous vide method to pasteurized a whole 5 gallon carbo or should i do it in 1 gallon batches
I would think you can but it will take a long time to heat it up. One gallon batches or even bottled might be better.
Reading would matter if you were targeting a specific final gravity. You have commented before on a preference for sweetness level based on the final gravity. But then again, if you know it is calibrated off, and you can correct it, the. That really doesn’t matter at all.
What about different altitudes? Florida vs Colorado?
That can have an effect too!
I wonder if Floride or Chlorine may change water density, apparently chlorine can increase water density I have no idea if it can make that big of a difference
Not sure. But it's possible.
But wait, the screenshot at the beginning said they used Poland Spring brand, so it was bottled water!
Yup.
Just informative, water get denser at 4ºC, lower them that and de density starts to decrease due to complex atomic interections, that's why ice floats and in a lake the coldest water is in the bottom. Whem we talk about water having a density of 1g/cm³ is at 4ºC, water at 25ºC is in fact 0,997g/cm³, a minisclue amount that can not explain the specific gravity in the ocasion. The best explanation in my view is a poorly calibrated hydrometer, in fact my is of by 0.004 points.
Honestly, I wouldn't even worry if it said 1.08 as long as the end result tasted right, after 20+ years of wine making I check the start sg and when it is cleared and tastes good write whatever the end reading is ignoring temperatue and all that kerfuffle, I'm not selling the stuff so I don't need an accurate alcohol measurement, within 1% is fine.
1.080 is something to worry about! Lol. I know what you meant.ruclips.net/video/6aerAwMrEic/видео.htmlsi=YI52_8jFTAWy3_CU
@@CitySteadingBrews I missed a zero lol
That happens a lot! Not just you, I see it all the time 👍
Can't find my other comment here. Bang on 1.000 with german tap water, 23 °C. We have quite low mineral content where I live.
1.008 must be a wrong reading. That would be half the salinity of the atlantic ocean. Maybe it's as simple as the scale moved inside the hydrometer?
Happy New Year
Happy New Year to you too!
I would believe that water would lose density with temperature until it loses all density and turns to steam. Conversely, I would believe that water would become more dense as temperature decreased until it becomes a solid.
To a point with both.... 😊👍
except that ice has a lower density than water which is why it floats
Could the 1.008 could it be that some of the new water companies are using ammonia instead of chlorine
I couldn't begin to guess.
So I accidentally bought this raspberry juice that turned out to be a probiotic raspberry juice with lactobacillus cultures. How do you think th a that'll go?.
Not really sure. It might come out great or seem like an infection.
Soft water? I think that might make a difference. Because of the salinity.
Could be?
SALT!!! He has softened water! Water Softeners add salt to the water to help it feel and taste better! The OP may have a water softener!
Could be!
Hmm. I feel like the poll from yesterday is wrong too. This is the 3rd video this week. 😂
True! We do occasionally do more, but usually just the 2.9
@ haha no worries at all. Pleasure is on my side. What a blessing it is to have found your channel this last year. ❤️
Ross is the 👨
If something is off by a few points when it's just pure water doesn't mean it'll be off by the same # of points when it's not pure water.
Actually... most likely it does. It means the hydrometer is miscalibrated in many cases, so that miscalibration would carry over to other readings as well.
@@CitySteadingBrews Yes, but when something is miscalibrated it doesn't mean it's always the exact same amount off.
Example: a miscalibrated thermometer might always be 3 degrees high. But it might only be 3 degrees high when it's 60 degrees but it's actually 5 degrees high when it's 80 and then it'll be 9 degrees high when it's 100.
Normally it means the paper is moved or the markings are incorrect or the weight is different. There are calculators to make the adjustments for temperature changes. I've yet to see one do a sliding scale of miscalibration though.
Hey! 👍‼️
Hey!
I hear the water at MI6 is 1.007.
Hah clever!
OMG! Brian messed up? 🤣😂 I don't think so. The difference is NOT a BIG deal. We end up with good brews but Brian always changes his thinking when corrected.
Lol, thank you!
He probably filmed this in the last two hours because it feels really random
Umm, yeah? Because I saw something that needed correction, lol. Why wait? That's a bad thing?
@CitySteadingBrews haha true
Temperature and density are inversely proportional so as temperature increases density reduces due to the law of thermal expansion but it’s also reversed at 0c cause of ice lattice structure. It’s makes sense scientifically, at lower temperatures there’s less entropy so hydrogen bonds between molecules are stronger hence why it’s denser, and at higher temperatures there’s less hydrogen bonds between molecules. That why when water is cold is doesn’t run as fast as boiled water. Lmao let me not get too deep into fluid dynamics I could be here all day 😂😂😂😂
😁🍻💥👍
gravity really doesn't matter. I have never measured before the mead is finished and use a DACT (Digital Alcohol Concentration Tester) on the finished product.
Now I am curious what exact product you're using! Also, knowing the sg has less to do with alcohol content and more to do with making a healthy fermentation.
This is a lot of math😮 makes my head spin.. to early in the new year for this.. well he lives in Poland right.. I sepose the water is colder there then by you in Florida. But maybe it could also be water quality and or the calibration of hydrometer.. I think he needs to get a friend with hydrometer and after he teasers his water with his hydrometer his friend must do a measurement also. If it's still the 08 at end for both then maybe water quality or temp. If his is 08 and the friend is 00 it's his hydrometer. Get a new one buddy yours is defective.
It was Poland Spring water. Actually just take a measurement in distilled water at the correct temp and you can find out if it's calibrated correctly.
Wonder how far my Marzen beer will be out.... SG was taken around 30c degrees when I pitched the yeast, FG will be taken at 10-12c degrees. Knowing is half the battle! haha
After your final check, let that "sample" warm to 30⁰c and check the difference..
I don't think it could reasonably be off by enough to actually notice. Precise ABV really only matters for regulations, not what you're drinking.
Could just use the calculator to make the adjustments.
@@GamesFromSpace I know, just curious :)
@@NoBonesPressed your IQ 200 or something? haha I'll check it out! Cheers!