I’m not sure if I would put a good or bad as an outcome. You do now know where your battery is in its life. If it’s any relief there is a 2016 MS one owner with over 500,000 miles. Battery still checks in at 80%. It’s driver 5 days per week 210 miles RT. The battery is like socks. Wash them 50 times you will get degradation of around 20%. But it still does the job. All the best. Good video
My 2023 model Y, dual motor, long range with 30k miles is showing 293 miles at 100%. I forgot the initial range when I got it. This is my 2nd Tesla and I don’t get hung up on the battery degradation anymore. There are more than enough superchargers to get me to pretty much everywhere I need to go and I will keep driving until the wheels fall off or move on to something else. It’s a beautiful ride.
For a 2023 Y, you should be still getting 305 to 308 miles at 100% charging. My 2021 is now at 10% degradation and that's fine with me as I drive it very frequent and racked up 70k miles
I work on batteries for a living, degradation is not reversible, however to properly reset the BMS run your battery below 5% and charge to 100%. Do this 3 or so times and at 100% leave it on the charger for a few hours (This only resets the BMS) To maximize the life of your battery only cycle your battery between 20%-80%. Charging and temperature will affect your degradation dramatically, Tesla's typically have a reserve battery capacity of 2% -5% even when your reading 0%. We do this for grid energy storage for augmentation and knowing clients will deplete the battery. It's set like that to minimize damage to the cells and prevent the pack going into sleep mode if the voltage drops too low.
Well I made my fuel tank on an ICE last 20 years, with no loss of capacity or range by not following your 20 to 80% rule... LOL. Lithium batteries use 'coulomb counting' ( measure what goes and and what comes out ) obviously this drifts over time and gets unbalanced - showing the wrong capacity - the zeroing of the coulomb counting should be part of service...
My 2019 Model 3 started with 305-310. It was in an accident and was considered a total loss and at that time it was around 270-275. Keep in mind that I had the car almost 5 years and put 175k miles on it. I lost around 10-12% range but never replaced brakes, had any maintenance done or anything. If it hadn’t been a complete loss I think I could have driven it another 5 years. Probably at some point it would become a “local car” for 50-100 mile trips from home. But, doesn’t that happen with most cars? It gets old enough where you don’t want to take it long distances? Fear wouldn’t even be from it breaking down but having to recharge too often.
I ran a health test on my 2020 Model Y with 103k miles on it back in June, and it said it was at around 87% health. So I have a feeling time is more of a factor than how it's charged. The last test you could do is to basically drive it 70 mph on the freeway until you're close to 0%, and see how many kWhs you're able to pull from the battery. Might have to wait for warmer weather, but you could get some interesting results here too.
Time does matter, but not much. If you search up studies on these battery chemistries it's really quite clear what does impact it. 1) High depth of discharge 2) Being held at a high SOC 3) Hot weather The more of these you have in combination the worse it'll be. The depth of discharge is what matters by far the most and can produce a day and night different in the battery's life
Range calculation is also based on driving habbits. If you drive fast, have heater on use more power, the BMS accounts for that and can show you have less range that actual rated. Also, tesla says expect about 10 percent loss in the first year. then about 1 percent per year after..... you're in line
But the battery degradation test does not take driving habits and heaters etc into consideration. Therefore it looks like (because the mileage showed a 13.7% degradation and the full battery test showed 13.2%, i,e, very very close) the BMS does NOT concern itself with driving style and heaters on etc.If I buy a brand new Tesla and my first drive is on a racetrack at 130mph where range would be very very low, it would not then show a very low range at the next 100% charge.
My understanding is that new batteries will degrade over the first few years, but the speed of degradation slows down over time. It's only considered faulty once it gets above 20% degradation (80% of original capacity) , which almost never happens unless there is an actual problem somewhere.
You’re doing the health test in one of the coldest parts of the year. It’d be interesting to see, and make a good “part 2 video” to do another in the early summer, and compare results.
Be aware that the continuous stop/start cycle of Hybrids( and some other cars that turn off at stoplights) wears the rings and bearings of the engine much faster.
So the plan is to abuse the battery and pray that it dies under warranty? You do realize the replacement battery is only warranted for 2 years, at which point you're once again on the hook for a $15K replacement?
My 2021 model Y Performance with 65,000 miles maxes out on the battery icon at 100 percent 255 miles 😮. When new the max range was 296-298. I charged to 80 to 90 percent mostly at home using the Tesla’s level two charger. I sold it back in August 204 and replaced it with a 2021 model S refresh long range with the 100 kWh battery. As a result, I am getting an extra 112 mile range 😊
Really interesting, thanks for checking this out Jim! I’m around the same for indicated miles, so pretty in line with what you’re seeing. I was thinking of doing the service mode thing, but it looks like that doesn’t really find any magical missing range. On the plus side, I did a test after hitting 100k miles and went farther in 8 hours than I did when the car was new because there are more and faster chargers than four years ago. I still would like the car to have that original range though.
In my 2019 M3 LR after two years and 30K miles, mine was down into the 250s. I had more than 15% degradation, at only two years! I think I had a weak battery pack.
Jim: My Tesla Model Y Long Range is also 4 years old with 51,000 miles. Yes, I’ve noticed less range as well, but really not worried since most of my travel is under 20 miles per day.
Same here, I am not worried at all about my battery degradation. I am retired and only drive my 2023 Model Y around town and only charge the battery when needed at home. So there is no range anxiety with my vehicle. Usually charge the battery back to 90 percent from when it gets down to around 65 percent. Takes only a couple hours at home for my charging. I can usually drive my model Y most the week without re-charging. Works for me.
Why not limit to 80% as recommended by Tesla? If you can charge at home and mostly drive around town, I would put the limit at 60%. Closer to 50% is better for battery health.
Great video.. I've found that TeslaFi does a good job estimating range. My 2019 M3 SR+ had an advertised range of 404 km. After 57K km, it's now reporting 353 km - so a 12.6% drop. Over 90% of the charging is 120V 12A (1½ KW), so very gentle on the NMC battery. When I occasionally drop the battery to < 30% and then charged to 100%, the estimated range goes up.
My 2022 M3 LR with 78,000 miles has 13.8% degradation according to Tessie. I’m not too worried about it but it does seem a bit high. I bought it used so my bad but it was under 25,000 so I got the rebate. I’m hoping if it does need a new battery after the warranty, is up that there will be a glut of good used cheap packs available . Also batter technology is improving at a very fast clip so new packs may be very cheap.
Why can't there be software to detect which battery is dying in the battery pack and they can just replace those batteries instead of the whole battery pack or they could have multiple battery packs instead of one to replace smaller packs
I wish Tesla would just overprovision the battery by 10% or so. Hide that energy from us when new and slowly give it back to us as the battery degrades over its lifespan, for a more consistent experience over time. It would be healthier for the battery as well.
0.868 X 320 miles = 278 miles. Pretty close to your 280 readout. So yeah, 13.2% degradation is about what I would expect over 4 years and 67K miles. Thanks for posting the test.
Sounds about right for 4 years and almost 70k miles, the interesting part is the next period of the same age and distance. If you have a Leaf it continues to degrade but stats indicate most modern managed batteries tend to level off around 80-85% or so, at least that’s my very basic understanding.
Great video, Jim! I would have expected closer to 10% degradation after 4 years and almost 70,000 miles. It will be interesting if you do this again in, say, 6 months to see if it has pretty much leveled off or continues to go downhill more than expected.
We should talk about battery swap costs in coming years as tech gets better. I am driving my 6 months old Y and I am ok to replace my battery after 3-4 years if it costs me under 5k.
Something else to consider- I think Tesla dropped the EPA mileage on the model Y from 330 in 2023 to 311 (iirc) in 2024. I wonder if their software is taking this newer calculation into account. If so, your actual percentage of battery loss is probaby not 13.2%, but probably closer to 8%...
I agree with Paul. I think the latest software uses the newer calculation. If your 2020 was rated at 316 miles, the new calculation reduces that to 296.8 when new. So, your degradation would only be 5.66%
Are you always charging your Tesla at high current either with your Wall Connector (> 40 A) or Superchargers? If so, it explains your high 14 % battery degradation in last 4 years. Change to use lower charging current (20A for example) might help to slow down your battery degradation By the way, Tesla battery warranty is 30% degradation in 8 years, so you could get close to or even cross the 30% limit in next 4 years.
This video was really useful from the standpoint that I now know that doing any sort of cyclic test does not recover any lost range. My nearly 3 year old MY LR has ~57K on it. For short range road trips to a larger city 1 1/2 hours away I can leave at 90% and make it back at ~5%. So it works but I am pushing the limits. One a very cold day I would take my ICE car, but that doesn't happen often in southern Kansas.
I charge mine to 60 percent when I am not traveling more than 100 miles in a day. It seems to be happy at this rate of charge. I don’t get huge phantom drops or spikes when parked for longer period of times when I am at work. At a higher state of charge it behaves all crazy.
Thank you for doing this. Very helpful. I would expect less then 30% degradation upto 8 yrs/120k miles. I think that is the warranty. Probably of many EVs. This may be a typical rate.
They’re also is a method where you go into the service menu on your cell phone and you put in battery test at a certain prompt and then it tells you whether or not it’s within normal degradation parameters or is it deteriorating faster than what your warranty would allow andI’m sure you could find a RUclips video on it because I’ve seen it in the past. I just don’t remember where
Thanks for posting. I own a 2023 Model Y and a 2021 ID4 with 40,000 miles. The ID4 also has 87% battery health. ID4 seems like it has similar degradation. I was thinking it degraded more than it should, now I feel like it's in the normal range. Usually EV people post about their awesome battery degradation stats which made me feel like it was degrading much worse than it should. This video makes me feel my ID4 is not doing so bad after all.
Fast charging will hurt the long range capacity of current battery technology. One study found that maintaining around 50% with lower current will help it last longer, with a occasional charge to 100%
Here’s my question and I’m actually asking, doesn’t the estimate go based on your last xxx miles driven? Like if I drive like a maniac all the time wouldn’t the car always show less than the expected range? I’m sure it’s not that simple but I am curious.
I think you are dead right,to much thought processing by some owners,if the question was put to the owners of these cars where asked how much have they saved on running costs they would all have to say thousands of dollars with a big smile 🇦🇺🦘👍👍👍
Seen over battery degradation videos which bring up this point. So in reality the total range displayed when charged to 100% is being influenced by your recent driving efficiency or lack there of.
@@CSAFMedia No there are two settings in a Tesla, one based on your driving efficiency also known as the real world and the other is the standard range efficiency which is always more.
Even my gas-powered car has a "Range" estimate and it is heavily influenced by my most recent gas mileage. Just bought a new Y, and first two weeks we drove around town. Then I drove for 2100 miles to from CO to FL at 80mph. The "miles remaining" estimate dropped much faster than my odometer went up. By second day it figured out that I couldn't go that far at 80mph, and estimate matched usage almost perfectly rest of the trip.
Hi gals & guys. I have 2020 M3 LR 322 miles originally speced if using 18" wheels. I opted for 19" and lost some range there, maybe 10%. I have 97,300 miles on the clock. It's plugged in now showing 221 miles of range / 80% charge = 276 miles at 100% charge. I think with 18" wheels I might get a little less than 300 @ 100%. Don't tell Def Leppard but with EV batteries, "It's better to fade out, than burn away. . .!" My battery degradation seems typical. However, the smooth ride, low cost of ownership, advanced driving features, extreme power, superior safety, adequate range - I would trade them all if I could get . . . just a little bit more.
I bought my 2022 Model 3 long range 14 months ago and it had 22,000 miles. Now it has 45,000 miles. My 100% rating has always been 334 miles. It has never changed. I have the 19” wheels. Not sure what the max was brand new.
My 2022 Model 3 long range was advertised new to have 358 range (100%). I bought it used in mid 2024 with 26k miles on it. When I first took delivery 80% charge was about 265 mi. Now 6 months later, 80% charge is 259 miles. Doesn't seem all too unreasonable to me, although at 2plus years old now, I'm looking for that rate of range degradation to start slowing down, hopefully.
@ So what you're saying is that if you store an ICE car rather than drive it, the engine won't degrade like an EV battery. Correct. Very practical advice.
You can do a full battery calibration via the services hidden menu, easy to enable. Just google. Batteries will lose most of their range though in the first 30-40k miles then it levels out and is very very slow degradation. You’d find your car range will not look much different after 100k.
Tesla has dropped maximum range from the original 320 miles to 280 to make room for "reserve miles" similar to gasoline powered cars when the fuel level drops to zero. They also dropped the miles to more closely account for various driving conditions.
4 year old Y 58k mi. I have about 283 range. But from things i have read the number you are told from Tesla regarding the range, is in itself a bit over inflated. Also that you can sort of expect about a 10% degradation in the first 25k or so and then it more or less loses about !% every 10k or so long terms so sounds like you are right in the "normal" range.
Consider this perspective. Every cellphone regardless of make has to be replaced as the battery technology thus far has a service life limitation. Now look at a EV, regardless of make. It is getting better.
@@iowatesla I have only super charged a couple times. When I do I seem to not get the same kind of range or efficiency as I would if I charged at home. It’s kinda weird.
My 2018 tesla model 3 duel motor had a good solid 10% or lower at 106,000 miles degradation. Until, my cabin battery that’s located in the frunk needed replacing. After replacing, my battery health dropped to 13%. Tesla service said that was normal. That drop happened after the cabin battery was replaced. Tesla service blamed it on a 3rd party app. Not true.
Wouldn’t your driving style adjust the estimated mileage? Drive it with the acceleration set to chill and drive very economically and see if that 280 increases
Well I made my fuel tank on an ICE last 20 years, with no loss of capacity or range by being careful how full and empty I let it get., as far as I know that fuel tank is still giving 100% service to the guy who bought the car off me... LOL. Lithium batteries use 'coulomb counting' ( measure what goes and and what comes out ) obviously this drifts over time and gets unbalanced - showing the wrong capacity - the zeroing of the coulomb counting should be part of service.
My feeling is we basically just get lucky on the battery health. Some people will claim they supercharge most of the time and their degradation is minimal. Other people state it’s bad for your battery and have higher than normal degradation. I think the amount of degradation primarily depends on the weather climate you live in, the amount of miles you drive, the age of your battery and wheel size you run with on your car. For example, I have a 2023 M3 LR with 19” sport wheels. The epa mileage range listed when I took delivery of the car in December of 2022 was 358. I never saw that range when charging to 100%. I knew going with the 19” wheels would reduce my range, but they looked better in my opinion. I started with 347 miles of range. I live in a desert city near Yuma, Az where the weather reaches extremely warm temperatures in the Summer (up to 125 degrees) and the Winters are very cold. I commute about 400 miles around trip for work each week. The travel path I use for work does have high elevation on the freeway when I’m traveling to work and less evaluation coming home. Lastly, I put about 20K to 25k miles on my car each year. As of now, December 5th, 2024 I’m at 53,000 miles and 16% battery degradation which I feel is way too rapid. So you are not along on the rapid battery degradation. We just have to drive the cars and hope for the best.
seems normal for mileage and age and what ive seen from mine it stayed at that level to about 150k miles then i lost another 3 percent to 225k miles and thats when i sold it so at 225k miles it was at 16 percent loss from a 21 m3p, seen most people between 8 to 15 at the over 200k mile mark
@@iowateslaI have a battery degradation of 8.65% driving about 17200 miles on my first year of ownership on my 2024 MYLR. I guess you are better than mine
My understanding is that a degradation like this over the first few years of ownership is normal and is to be expected. if it was a more severe degradation of 20% it would mean there is a problem and the battery should be replaced under warranty.
The numbers were 281, 280 and 280 again the third time. How did the percentage vary? Wondering how much time you spent to come up with the same set of statistics 😃
13 year old phev with 130k miles on it. battery currently getting about 150% of EPA range. calendar aging is not real. never supercharged my car since it was made before super chargers existed. I would avoid supercharging it and keep it in the 85-30% state of charge. sounds like youre doing that to some extent. also avoid cold temps. not sure how, maybe think about garage door insulation and leaving your garage door cracked during summer months. this is very commonly overlooked by all the ev "experts" on youtube. also occasionally driving your car hard can help according to some new study everyone is talking about. also 1 pedal driving/max regen is helpful but sometimes not safe during winter driving.
I knew that eventually the battery would give out and I hope that it's before the warranty does. The day after I bought my Tesla I started a savings account to either replace the battery or down payment on a new one. These tests are really only good under optimal conditions and there are way too many real-world variables to get an accurate reading.
My Tesla model 3 mid range used to have 274 miles fully charged. After 5 years with 103k miles, my full charged is at 210 miles. I dunno how long the battery will last. 😢
It's always going to report less miles in the winter as it's a guess-o-meter based on previous driving conditions. Run the same test in the summer and it would be higher.
Tesla's are not a guess-o-meter like in a Chevy Bolt/Nissan Leaf. On the main screen it's showing the ranged based off a fixed number for the car and the available energy the BMS has calculated.
My daughter has 2013 model s with 110k miles, original milage was 265 when new, now it can charge to 238 miles full after 11 years, which is fantastic, your new car should be at 300 mile range after 4 years, its a bit higher than normal, but no car is same when it comes out done, even if its same cars.
That's because the batteries had excess capacity to begin with so the degradation doesn't look that bad. Most of the Tesla roadsters have bad batteries now.
With the recent information on how Tesla will charge for the use of their api’s I doubt too many apps will return accurate information on data from the car unless the app maker is fully invested in using native api’s!
A fiend has a 2018 M3 and his car’s range is about what you show. I wonder if the range your car shows is indicative of distance and how you drive the Tesla. If it takes 14 days to dive 260-280 miles, that is about 20-25 miles a day. Range, as I understand as a ten year EV driver, currently 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5, is depended on miles per kilowatt hour not only as battery capacity. Range also is affected by the car’s electronic usage, HVAC. Tesla EVs also have security modes that work cameras, sensors, even climate when the car’s electronic usage is parked. Good luck.
45k on my 21MY 9-12% degradation depending on app used to monitor it. Called Tesla they scanned remotely and said I was 1% more than other cars my age. 293mi is about my max and long trip to Disney was about 285 with crazy heat on the drive
Asked Grok: Do Tesla batteries degrade linearly or exponentially each year? Grok: Tesla battery degradation is generally considered to be **non-linear**. It tends to follow a pattern where there is an initial drop in capacity, followed by a period where degradation slows down, and then potentially another steeper decline towards the end of the battery's life. However, the exact nature of this degradation can vary based on several factors including usage patterns, charging habits, and environmental conditions. - **Initial Drop**: There's often a noticeable drop in capacity during the first few years or initial miles, which could be considered somewhat exponential in the early phase. - **Middle Phase**: After the initial drop, the rate of degradation tends to level off, suggesting a more linear or even slower rate of decline than might be expected from an exponential model. - **Later Years**: Towards the end of its lifecycle, degradation might increase again, though this stage might not be reached within the typical lifespan of a vehicle. This pattern is supported by various studies and reports: - Data from Tesla's own Impact Reports and owner experiences suggest that after an initial degradation, the rate slows down significantly. For instance, Tesla has reported an average capacity retention of about 88% after 200,000 miles for Model S and Model X, with Model 3 and Model Y showing similar trends but with different chemistries potentially affecting long-term degradation rates.[](electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla-update-battery-degradation/) - Real-life data from owners show that after several years, the degradation rate can become more linear or even plateau for a period.[](electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/) - Discussions and analyses on platforms like Tesla Motors Club and Reddit highlight that the degradation isn't strictly linear or exponential but follows a curve where initial degradation is higher, followed by a slower rate, which might pick up again after many years.[](teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-does-the-battery-degradation-curve-look-like.10708/)[](www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/17er8mq/is_10_degradation_after_3_years_normal/)[](teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/battery-degradation-scientifically-explained.153074/page-2) In summary, while Tesla batteries don't degrade in a strictly linear or exponential manner each year, they tend to follow a non-linear curve where degradation is initially more rapid, then slows before potentially accelerating again.
I have a 2023 MYP with just over 20,000 miles on it. My S3XY Commander say 11% degradation, and it was at 9% last February, when I got the Commander. I've not run a BMW calibration yet, partly because I don't want to be without the car for 24 hours.
@@iowateslasame thing happened to me though around 80k miles. My 100% said I was getting like 150 miles and I flipped out. Brought it to the Tesla center and they had it for like 3 days. Got it back and couldn’t let it drop under 20% for 48 hours. After that, everything has been completely normal. It’s wild..the car still feels brand new at such high mileage… love it! I’ll never go back!
In april of 2020 , I received my New Model Y performance for a whopping $68K after a long wait, I believe my Factory range was around 309, After a year it dropped to 287, following year 272 at the end of a 4 year lease it was around 204 i believe, I called tesla about battery issues, I was told by Tesla field service rep that i was not following charging recommendations, nothing they could do. offered to sell a new battery at a discounted price of $14K. I passed, Lucky it was a lease. I had nothing but issues with that EV, range anxiety was the big one followed by ride comfort, rattling noises, went thru 3 sets of tires $$$, broken lose trims from factory, Dumped that pile of Junk after 4 years. Never again with another EV. Yes bought me a Camry Hybrid! XSE Love the ride
Before you assume anything from 3rd party. Use the service mode and do the High Voltage battery test. You don’t want to leave it at 100% on your battery. What you appear to be reading is the BMS for LFP battery which only some Standard Range Model 3’s had. I use Teslafi, and based on that and my test of charging to 100% and immediately driving I have a degradation of 9% after 98K miles on my 3 year old 2021 Model Y. Based on mileage you’re a little ahead of me. My policy is if I won’t be driving much over next few days then I drop Max Charge down to 70%, then bump it up to either 80%, or if I have longer drive planned bump to to 90%, but always disconnect immediately and start charging when it gets to 90%. About once a month will bump it to 100% again unplugging and drive once it reaches its max charge and charging stops. I had Model 3, and using same charging pattern I was a little better at 7% degradation after 3 years and 97k miles.
I’m originally from Iowa and I’m thinking the extreme weather in Iowa has a factor in the battery degradation. I currently live in Massachusetts which doesn’t have the temperature extremes that Iowa does and I am looking to own a Tesla in the future. I would own a Tesla in Massachusetts but Teslas might not play nice with Iowa weather. I remember the -30 wind chills growing up in Iowa and the Midwest heat wave of 1995.
that's normal, Tesla's own chart shows the first 2-3 years has the most degradation and tapers off around 85%. the EPA estimates were too high, they were tested in ideal conditions to get that +300 miles estimate. even at new my 2023 MYLR (Austin build) was only giving me 200 miles of range. to and from work was about 42 miles using up 20-21% battery. so 2 miles per 1% of battery. hot and humid Houston conditions, driving habits, etc shows I was using 280 Wh/mi. i reset it at the beginning of Nov after a tire balance and rotation. so far i'm using 255 Wh/mi, minimal A/C use after work 2pm and almost no heater on the way to work 5am. using about 16-17% battery per 42 miles. last week Nov 30 i did the Battery Health Test and the result was 93.2% and 308 miles. even with the lower Wh/mi consumption there's no way i'm actually getting anywhere near 300 real world miles, more like 210-220 miles. the Tesla computer is still overestimating the range.
I just saw the video and the advice is very similar to what I was told, by Tesla: go as low as you can stomach and leave it plugged in, not charging, for two hours. In that time it’s ’relearning’ what ‘empty’ is. Then charge (Level 2, 6 kW+) to 100% AND stay at 100% for five hours. During that time, the BMS is relearning ‘full’ and floating the under-performing cells back up to where they should be. Good luck. It didn’t help me because I had a lemon battery. Apparently the 2021 SR+’s have a high failure rate. Mine died around 52,000 miles and they gave me an LFP upon request. I love the feeling of such a major upgrade (a new battery at 52,000 miles) but I have some resentment that they gaslighted me for 52,000 miles. I love my car. Love Tesla. Hate Elon. That is all.
Wait wait wait. Did you initiate the BMS Reset within service mode? There is a video that Kyle from Out of Spec did, he does this exact thing but within service mode
On the bright side, go a little harder on your battery, pass the 30% degradation that is the limit for the battery warranty and you’ll get a new battery for free.
Battery degradation is pretty normal, but it slows down over time, ICE cars lose mileage to, but you don’t notice it because they have massive range to start with.
Big thanks for sharing the results from your "resets" and the service mode test. They do say the (NCA and NMC) batteries degrade fast at first and more slowly as time goes on, and Elon has said the battery is designed to last 200K miles (one presumes that means that it is expected to keep at least 70% of its capacity at the end of the 200K miles.) The S3XY app reports that my 17 mo old 2023 MY has a 7.43% degradation, but there is some instability in the value reported by that app, which may depend on state or environmental factors, still, given your results I suppose I've lost more than I expected to over a little under 14K miles of driving. I'll be keeping tabs on the reported degradation for the next few years and see whether it follows a shallower and shallower curve.
13% degradation after 4 years is line with the studies I've read of Tesla batteries. I believe they lose 9-10% in the first year and about 1% each year after that. The good news is you aren't going to lose much more from this point.
I've been reading comments below and I dont understand how ppl drive so little with their tesla. I have a model 3 LR, its only been a year and I got 60,000 mile on it already. degradation for me is about 12%. I'm trying to hit 30% before my warranty expires...lol
@@burnx45 have to drive my wife to work everyday before I goto work myself. Our work place is far across 2 cities. Then have to go back and pick her up and go home. So about 200mil a day roundtrip.. plus we would go on roadtrips on the weekend or vacation.. so ya, 60k.
One would think that Tesla Service would offer a super duper battery recharge service that would perform at least some level of reconditioning - they have the battery expertise and should be better than anyone in this area of assist to our community
Have a 2018 Tesla Model 3P with 100K miles. Degradation to 280 miles sounds ok. My bladder and back has a range of about 250 miles.👍😊
That's a good thing about your bladder, because my M3P as well as yours, will only do 220 miles.
@ 👍Our M3P will go about 280 miles. Pretty flat terrain and mild weather here. Also guessing we only supercharge 15% of the time is helping? 🤔
So when you're 80 and have to go every hour, a 60 mile range Tesla is fine.
@ y🌂Yeah or maybe sell the Tesla and buy an old Nissan Leaf 😂😂😂
I’m not sure if I would put a good or bad as an outcome. You do now know where your battery is in its life. If it’s any relief there is a 2016 MS one owner with over 500,000 miles. Battery still checks in at 80%. It’s driver 5 days per week 210 miles RT. The battery is like socks. Wash them 50 times you will get degradation of around 20%. But it still does the job. All the best. Good video
My 2023 model Y, dual motor, long range with 30k miles is showing 293 miles at 100%. I forgot the initial range when I got it. This is my 2nd Tesla and I don’t get hung up on the battery degradation anymore. There are more than enough superchargers to get me to pretty much everywhere I need to go and I will keep driving until the wheels fall off or move on to something else. It’s a beautiful ride.
Congratulations! You can afford TWO Teslas! If only we could all afford a new Tesla every few years.
For a 2023 Y, you should be still getting 305 to 308 miles at 100% charging. My 2021 is now at 10% degradation and that's fine with me as I drive it very frequent and racked up 70k miles
I work on batteries for a living, degradation is not reversible, however to properly reset the BMS run your battery below 5% and charge to 100%. Do this 3 or so times and at 100% leave it on the charger for a few hours (This only resets the BMS) To maximize the life of your battery only cycle your battery between 20%-80%. Charging and temperature will affect your degradation dramatically, Tesla's typically have a reserve battery capacity of 2% -5% even when your reading 0%. We do this for grid energy storage for augmentation and knowing clients will deplete the battery. It's set like that to minimize damage to the cells and prevent the pack going into sleep mode if the voltage drops too low.
Thanks my dude
great info
That’s amazing info which is consistent to the science I’ve researched. Good stuff!
Well I made my fuel tank on an ICE last 20 years, with no loss of capacity or range by not following your 20 to 80% rule... LOL. Lithium batteries use 'coulomb counting' ( measure what goes and and what comes out ) obviously this drifts over time and gets unbalanced - showing the wrong capacity - the zeroing of the coulomb counting should be part of service...
@@chrissmith2114 But the engine lost some power in that time.
My 2019 Model 3 started with 305-310. It was in an accident and was considered a total loss and at that time it was around 270-275. Keep in mind that I had the car almost 5 years and put 175k miles on it. I lost around 10-12% range but never replaced brakes, had any maintenance done or anything. If it hadn’t been a complete loss I think I could have driven it another 5 years.
Probably at some point it would become a “local car” for 50-100 mile trips from home. But, doesn’t that happen with most cars? It gets old enough where you don’t want to take it long distances? Fear wouldn’t even be from it breaking down but having to recharge too often.
I ran a health test on my 2020 Model Y with 103k miles on it back in June, and it said it was at around 87% health. So I have a feeling time is more of a factor than how it's charged.
The last test you could do is to basically drive it 70 mph on the freeway until you're close to 0%, and see how many kWhs you're able to pull from the battery. Might have to wait for warmer weather, but you could get some interesting results here too.
Time does matter, but not much. If you search up studies on these battery chemistries it's really quite clear what does impact it.
1) High depth of discharge
2) Being held at a high SOC
3) Hot weather
The more of these you have in combination the worse it'll be. The depth of discharge is what matters by far the most and can produce a day and night different in the battery's life
Range calculation is also based on driving habbits. If you drive fast, have heater on use more power, the BMS accounts for that and can show you have less range that actual rated.
Also, tesla says expect about 10 percent loss in the first year. then about 1 percent per year after..... you're in line
But the battery degradation test does not take driving habits and heaters etc into consideration. Therefore it looks like (because the mileage showed a 13.7% degradation and the full battery test showed 13.2%, i,e, very very close) the BMS does NOT concern itself with driving style and heaters on etc.If I buy a brand new Tesla and my first drive is on a racetrack at 130mph where range would be very very low, it would not then show a very low range at the next 100% charge.
My understanding is that new batteries will degrade over the first few years, but the speed of degradation slows down over time. It's only considered faulty once it gets above 20% degradation (80% of original capacity) , which almost never happens unless there is an actual problem somewhere.
You’re doing the health test in one of the coldest parts of the year. It’d be interesting to see, and make a good “part 2 video” to do another in the early summer, and compare results.
My ranged dropped to 280 mile range in 1 year. I traded it in for a rav4 hybrid. I never looked back
Be aware that the continuous stop/start cycle of Hybrids( and some other cars that turn off at stoplights) wears the rings and bearings of the engine much faster.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I heard or read somewhere that Tesla will replace your battery if you reach 30% degradation and still within warranty.
That is correct
You are not promised a new battery however. It most likely will be one that is reconditioned.
@johnanderson9735 but with more capacity, using software to rate limit it. This makes the replacement battery last longer.
So the plan is to abuse the battery and pray that it dies under warranty?
You do realize the replacement battery is only warranted for 2 years, at which point you're once again on the hook for a $15K replacement?
@Timmymao163 the battery is not that much. Plus usually when a battery "dies" it is a single cell. 4 hours labor, you get it back.
I owned a 2017 Bolt for 4 years (52,550 miles) with almost no measurable (
My 2021 model Y Performance with 65,000 miles maxes out on the battery icon at 100 percent 255 miles 😮. When new the max range was 296-298. I charged to 80 to 90 percent mostly at home using the Tesla’s level two charger. I sold it back in August 204 and replaced it with a 2021 model S refresh long range with the 100 kWh battery. As a result, I am getting an extra 112 mile range 😊
281 miles, sounding maybe close to what is expected. Good video
Thanks for taking the time to run these test's Cheers from Australia
Plot twist: We’re ALL slowly dying
Hopefully at around 1% a year
@ Amen. And ditto
Really interesting, thanks for checking this out Jim! I’m around the same for indicated miles, so pretty in line with what you’re seeing. I was thinking of doing the service mode thing, but it looks like that doesn’t really find any magical missing range. On the plus side, I did a test after hitting 100k miles and went farther in 8 hours than I did when the car was new because there are more and faster chargers than four years ago. I still would like the car to have that original range though.
Agreed. I have to wonder if my car is a little worse than average because I have a high percentage of supercharger miles. I’m sure you do as well.
@ Could be, but that’s where all the fun is. 😄
In my 2019 M3 LR after two years and 30K miles, mine was down into the 250s. I had more than 15% degradation, at only two years! I think I had a weak battery pack.
What's crazy is that for 10 years my car would fill up with 19.5 gallons, yesterday when I filled up it took 19.8, what the...
Jim: My Tesla Model Y Long Range is also 4 years old with 51,000 miles. Yes, I’ve noticed less range as well, but really not worried since most of my travel is under 20 miles per day.
Same here, I am not worried at all about my battery degradation. I am retired and only drive my 2023 Model Y around town and only charge the battery when needed at home. So there is no range anxiety with my vehicle. Usually charge the battery back to 90 percent from when it gets down to around 65 percent. Takes only a couple hours at home for my charging. I can usually drive my model Y most the week without re-charging. Works for me.
Didn’t know the 3033’s were out already!?
@@michaeltester6174 LOL!!!!!!! Oops my mistake, thanks for the error catch. Typo, I meant 2023. Going to change that boo boo now. Take care.
@@michaeltester6174 You can pre-order one now. Just send me your blank.check.😎
Why not limit to 80% as recommended by Tesla?
If you can charge at home and mostly drive around town, I would put the limit at 60%. Closer to 50% is better for battery health.
Very good point
Great video.. I've found that TeslaFi does a good job estimating range. My 2019 M3 SR+ had an advertised range of 404 km. After 57K km, it's now reporting 353 km - so a 12.6% drop. Over 90% of the charging is 120V 12A (1½ KW), so very gentle on the NMC battery. When I occasionally drop the battery to < 30% and then charged to 100%, the estimated range goes up.
My 2022 M3 LR with 78,000 miles has 13.8% degradation according to Tessie. I’m not too worried about it but it does seem a bit high. I bought it used so my bad but it was under 25,000 so I got the rebate. I’m hoping if it does need a new battery after the warranty, is up that there will be a glut of good used cheap packs available . Also batter technology is improving at a very fast clip so new packs may be very cheap.
Yes from the day you purchased your car every part of it is slowly dying.
Just like your human body and evertthing else
Do u have a Tesla or speaking out of ur …
@@bobbysuazjFhvcfgh I have 4 Tesla's dumbass.
@@bobbysuazjFhvcfgh He's talking about every machine ever made. ICE cars lose range and performance too.
Elon Musk has publicly stated a number of times that his cars are designed to last “100 years and 1 million miles with minimal maintenance"
Why can't there be software to detect which battery is dying in the battery pack and they can just replace those batteries instead of the whole battery pack or they could have multiple battery packs instead of one to replace smaller packs
There is an app: SCANMYTESLA
I wish Tesla would just overprovision the battery by 10% or so. Hide that energy from us when new and slowly give it back to us as the battery degrades over its lifespan, for a more consistent experience over time. It would be healthier for the battery as well.
0.868 X 320 miles = 278 miles. Pretty close to your 280 readout. So yeah, 13.2% degradation is about what I would expect over 4 years and 67K miles. Thanks for posting the test.
so basically that 278 is pretty accurate method of knowing what your battery is doing.
Sounds about right for 4 years and almost 70k miles, the interesting part is the next period of the same age and distance. If you have a Leaf it continues to degrade but stats indicate most modern managed batteries tend to level off around 80-85% or so, at least that’s my very basic understanding.
Great video, Jim! I would have expected closer to 10% degradation after 4 years and almost 70,000 miles. It will be interesting if you do this again in, say, 6 months to see if it has pretty much leveled off or continues to go downhill more than expected.
We should talk about battery swap costs in coming years as tech gets better. I am driving my 6 months old Y and I am ok to replace my battery after 3-4 years if it costs me under 5k.
This
Don’t be given the bean counters any ideas! 😂
Something else to consider- I think Tesla dropped the EPA mileage on the model Y from 330 in 2023 to 311 (iirc) in 2024. I wonder if their software is taking this newer calculation into account. If so, your actual percentage of battery loss is probaby not 13.2%, but probably closer to 8%...
I agree with Paul. I think the latest software uses the newer calculation. If your 2020 was rated at 316 miles, the new calculation reduces that to 296.8 when new. So, your degradation would only be 5.66%
Are you always charging your Tesla at high current either with your Wall Connector (> 40 A) or Superchargers? If so, it explains your high 14 % battery degradation in last 4 years. Change to use lower charging current (20A for example) might help to slow down your battery degradation
By the way, Tesla battery warranty is 30% degradation in 8 years, so you could get close to or even cross the 30% limit in next 4 years.
This video was really useful from the standpoint that I now know that doing any sort of cyclic test does not recover any lost range. My nearly 3 year old MY LR has ~57K on it. For short range road trips to a larger city 1 1/2 hours away I can leave at 90% and make it back at ~5%. So it works but I am pushing the limits. One a very cold day I would take my ICE car, but that doesn't happen often in southern Kansas.
We have a new model 3 and daily charging it only to 75%. Let it drop to 30-40% most of the time. Only charging to 100% for roadtrips.
I charge mine to 60 percent when I am not traveling more than 100 miles in a day. It seems to be happy at this rate of charge. I don’t get huge phantom drops or spikes when parked for longer period of times when I am at work. At a higher state of charge it behaves all crazy.
2018 Model 3 RWD LR, 208,000 miles. 279 @ 90% originally. Now I get 250 @ 90%.
@@larrymorris4491 That seems really good for the age.
Thank you for doing this. Very helpful. I would expect less then 30% degradation upto 8 yrs/120k miles. I think that is the warranty. Probably of many EVs.
This may be a typical rate.
They’re also is a method where you go into the service menu on your cell phone and you put in battery test at a certain prompt and then it tells you whether or not it’s within normal degradation parameters or is it deteriorating faster than what your warranty would allow andI’m sure you could find a RUclips video on it because I’ve seen it in the past. I just don’t remember where
14% degradation doesn't sound bad to me as long as the remaining range is more than enough for daily commuting.
Thanks for posting. I own a 2023 Model Y and a 2021 ID4 with 40,000 miles. The ID4 also has 87% battery health. ID4 seems like it has similar degradation. I was thinking it degraded more than it should, now I feel like it's in the normal range. Usually EV people post about their awesome battery degradation stats which made me feel like it was degrading much worse than it should. This video makes me feel my ID4 is not doing so bad after all.
You could have just set the charge limit at 100% and scheduled departure for when you wanted to leave for work
That is true. Thanks.
Fast charging will hurt the long range capacity of current battery technology. One study found that maintaining around 50% with lower current will help it last longer, with a occasional charge to 100%
I agree. My battery my seems happy when I charge it to 60% daily. It usually stays in the 35-60% range unless I have to travel.
Here’s my question and I’m actually asking, doesn’t the estimate go based on your last xxx miles driven? Like if I drive like a maniac all the time wouldn’t the car always show less than the expected range? I’m sure it’s not that simple but I am curious.
I think you are dead right,to much thought processing by some owners,if the question was put to the owners of these cars where asked how much have they saved on running costs they would all have to say thousands of dollars with a big smile 🇦🇺🦘👍👍👍
Seen over battery degradation videos which bring up this point. So in reality the total range displayed when charged to 100% is being influenced by your recent driving efficiency or lack there of.
@@CSAFMedia No there are two settings in a Tesla, one based on your driving efficiency also known as the real world and the other is the standard range efficiency which is always more.
Even my gas-powered car has a "Range" estimate and it is heavily influenced by my most recent gas mileage. Just bought a new Y, and first two weeks we drove around town. Then I drove for 2100 miles to from CO to FL at 80mph. The "miles remaining" estimate dropped much faster than my odometer went up. By second day it figured out that I couldn't go that far at 80mph, and estimate matched usage almost perfectly rest of the trip.
Hi gals & guys. I have 2020 M3 LR 322 miles originally speced if using 18" wheels. I opted for 19" and lost some range there, maybe 10%. I have 97,300 miles on the clock. It's plugged in now showing 221 miles of range / 80% charge = 276 miles at 100% charge. I think with 18" wheels I might get a little less than 300 @ 100%. Don't tell Def Leppard but with EV batteries, "It's better to fade out, than burn away. . .!" My battery degradation seems typical. However, the smooth ride, low cost of ownership, advanced driving features, extreme power, superior safety, adequate range - I would trade them all if I could get . . . just a little bit more.
I bought my 2022 Model 3 long range 14 months ago and it had 22,000 miles. Now it has 45,000 miles. My 100% rating has always been 334 miles. It has never changed. I have the 19” wheels. Not sure what the max was brand new.
My 2022 Model 3 long range was advertised new to have 358 range (100%). I bought it used in mid 2024 with 26k miles on it. When I first took delivery 80% charge was about 265 mi. Now 6 months later, 80% charge is 259 miles. Doesn't seem all too unreasonable to me, although at 2plus years old now, I'm looking for that rate of range degradation to start slowing down, hopefully.
I would have guessed 8 to 10% degrade. So, a little higher than normal. Keep an eye on it.
If you had an ICE car at 67,000 miles you would start to notice some wear and tear, why would you think this would be different?
You wouldn't see degradation in the range, stop the cope
@@weich1q2w Yes, as ICE cars wear they get worse mileage (mpg).
Car and Driver long range testing shows ICE cars properly maintained actually improves performance and range at 40k miles.
ICE cars don't degrade by simply getting older like lithium batteries.
@ So what you're saying is that if you store an ICE car rather than drive it, the engine won't degrade like an EV battery. Correct. Very practical advice.
You can do a full battery calibration via the services hidden menu, easy to enable. Just google. Batteries will lose most of their range though in the first 30-40k miles then it levels out and is very very slow degradation. You’d find your car range will not look much different after 100k.
Tesla has dropped maximum range from the original 320 miles to 280 to make room for "reserve miles" similar to gasoline powered cars when the fuel level drops to zero. They also dropped the miles to more closely account for various driving conditions.
4 year old Y 58k mi. I have about 283 range. But from things i have read the number you are told from Tesla regarding the range, is in itself a bit over inflated. Also that you can sort of expect about a 10% degradation in the first 25k or so and then it more or less loses about !% every 10k or so long terms so sounds like you are right in the "normal" range.
Consider this perspective. Every cellphone regardless of make has to be replaced as the battery technology thus far has a service life limitation. Now look at a EV, regardless of make. It is getting better.
How often do you supercharge? Do you live in a very cold climate? Those are things need to know to evaluate good/bad.
About 60% of my 70K miles are supercharger. The range decrease isn’t an issue in the winter. Supercharger spacing is fine.
@@iowatesla Thats a high percentage. Not sure what the hit is on battery life but I think its significant.
@@iowatesla The internet seems to agree that supercharging should not be a big hit so..thats not it likely
@@iowatesla I have only super charged a couple times. When I do I seem to not get the same kind of range or efficiency as I would if I charged at home. It’s kinda weird.
My 2018 tesla model 3 duel motor had a good solid 10% or lower at 106,000 miles degradation. Until, my cabin battery that’s located in the frunk needed replacing. After replacing, my battery health dropped to 13%. Tesla service said that was normal. That drop happened after the cabin battery was replaced. Tesla service blamed it on a 3rd party app. Not true.
Wouldn’t your driving style adjust the estimated mileage? Drive it with the acceleration set to chill and drive very economically and see if that 280 increases
Well I made my fuel tank on an ICE last 20 years, with no loss of capacity or range by being careful how full and empty I let it get., as far as I know that fuel tank is still giving 100% service to the guy who bought the car off me... LOL. Lithium batteries use 'coulomb counting' ( measure what goes and and what comes out ) obviously this drifts over time and gets unbalanced - showing the wrong capacity - the zeroing of the coulomb counting should be part of service.
My feeling is we basically just get lucky on the battery health. Some people will claim they supercharge most of the time and their degradation is minimal. Other people state it’s bad for your battery and have higher than normal degradation. I think the amount of degradation primarily depends on the weather climate you live in, the amount of miles you drive, the age of your battery and wheel size you run with on your car.
For example, I have a 2023 M3 LR with 19” sport wheels. The epa mileage range listed when I took delivery of the car in December of 2022 was 358. I never saw that range when charging to 100%. I knew going with the 19” wheels would reduce my range, but they looked better in my opinion. I started with 347 miles of range. I live in a desert city near Yuma, Az where the weather reaches extremely warm temperatures in the Summer (up to 125 degrees) and the Winters are very cold. I commute about 400 miles around trip for work each week. The travel path I use for work does have high elevation on the freeway when I’m traveling to work and less evaluation coming home. Lastly, I put about 20K to 25k miles on my car each year. As of now, December 5th, 2024 I’m at 53,000 miles and 16% battery degradation which I feel is way too rapid. So you are not along on the rapid battery degradation. We just have to drive the cars and hope for the best.
2021 MYLR. Showing 291 miles @ 100% now after 80k miles
seems normal for mileage and age and what ive seen from mine it stayed at that level to about 150k miles then i lost another 3 percent to 225k miles and thats when i sold it so at 225k miles it was at 16 percent loss from a 21 m3p, seen most people between 8 to 15 at the over 200k mile mark
Mostly normal, yes. I think mine is a little worse because I have a high percentage of supercharger miles on this car.
@@iowateslaI have a battery degradation of 8.65% driving about 17200 miles on my first year of ownership on my 2024 MYLR. I guess you are better than mine
@@iowateslaso? That doesn’t affect the battery much
Are you out of warranty?
My understanding is that a degradation like this over the first few years of ownership is normal and is to be expected. if it was a more severe degradation of 20% it would mean there is a problem and the battery should be replaced under warranty.
The numbers were 281, 280 and 280 again the third time. How did the percentage vary? Wondering how much time you spent to come up with the same set of statistics 😃
13 year old phev with 130k miles on it. battery currently getting about 150% of EPA range. calendar aging is not real. never supercharged my car since it was made before super chargers existed. I would avoid supercharging it and keep it in the 85-30% state of charge. sounds like youre doing that to some extent. also avoid cold temps. not sure how, maybe think about garage door insulation and leaving your garage door cracked during summer months. this is very commonly overlooked by all the ev "experts" on youtube. also occasionally driving your car hard can help according to some new study everyone is talking about. also 1 pedal driving/max regen is helpful but sometimes not safe during winter driving.
I knew that eventually the battery would give out and I hope that it's before the warranty does. The day after I bought my Tesla I started a savings account to either replace the battery or down payment on a new one. These tests are really only good under optimal conditions and there are way too many real-world variables to get an accurate reading.
There is the service menu which has a program to measure battery capacity in more sophiaticated manner. Don't expect a different result tho.
My Tesla model 3 mid range used to have 274 miles fully charged. After 5 years with 103k miles, my full charged is at 210 miles. I dunno how long the battery will last. 😢
Your fine. Well within specs as degradation stabilizes as car gets older,
How did you get the Baymax seat covers?
Check my video description. There is an Amazon link.
It's always going to report less miles in the winter as it's a guess-o-meter based on previous driving conditions. Run the same test in the summer and it would be higher.
Tesla's are not a guess-o-meter like in a Chevy Bolt/Nissan Leaf. On the main screen it's showing the ranged based off a fixed number for the car and the available energy the BMS has calculated.
i have a 21 model y with 125k miles and about the same battery health 86% and range is about the same 280miles.
Elon Musk like Apple is limited battery life so you purchase a new Tesla every year 😂
This the dumbest thing that I have ever heard. Most batteries will last 250k to 300k miles and the warranty is 8 years 🤡
The level of ignorance is astounding.
How many miles should be stated upfront...not at the end
3 years old , 80 k miles. Y LR w 21s. 245 miles of range
My daughter has 2013 model s with 110k miles, original milage was 265 when new, now it can charge to 238 miles full after 11 years, which is fantastic, your new car should be at 300 mile range after 4 years, its a bit higher than normal, but no car is same when it comes out done, even if its same cars.
That's because the batteries had excess capacity to begin with so the degradation doesn't look that bad. Most of the Tesla roadsters have bad batteries now.
I just got my Tesla Model Y 2024 and when charged to 80% it only gives me 255 miles. Is it to worry about and call for service?
Mine is a exact red tesla Y 21 and its at 260 according to Tesla but i suspect its lower.
Have you read the warranty ?
Jim, does that equate to 1% degradation every 5K miles?
Great video, thanks for putting it together for us 👍
Can you please also share how do you enter into service mode?
With the recent information on how Tesla will charge for the use of their api’s I doubt too many apps will return accurate information on data from the car unless the app maker is fully invested in using native api’s!
Yes, as all batteries have only so many charge cycles before they go out.
A fiend has a 2018 M3 and his car’s range is about what you show. I wonder if the range your car shows is indicative of distance and how you drive the Tesla. If it takes 14 days to dive 260-280 miles, that is about 20-25 miles a day. Range, as I understand as a ten year EV driver, currently 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5, is depended on miles per kilowatt hour not only as battery capacity. Range also is affected by the car’s electronic usage, HVAC. Tesla EVs also have security modes that work cameras, sensors, even climate when the car’s electronic usage is parked. Good luck.
2 minutes of info in 11 minutes, nice job!
RUclips, baby!!!
Glad I could help.
45k on my 21MY 9-12% degradation depending on app used to monitor it. Called Tesla they scanned remotely and said I was 1% more than other cars my age. 293mi is about my max and long trip to Disney was about 285 with crazy heat on the drive
Asked Grok: Do Tesla batteries degrade linearly or exponentially each year?
Grok:
Tesla battery degradation is generally considered to be **non-linear**. It tends to follow a pattern where there is an initial drop in capacity, followed by a period where degradation slows down, and then potentially another steeper decline towards the end of the battery's life. However, the exact nature of this degradation can vary based on several factors including usage patterns, charging habits, and environmental conditions.
- **Initial Drop**: There's often a noticeable drop in capacity during the first few years or initial miles, which could be considered somewhat exponential in the early phase.
- **Middle Phase**: After the initial drop, the rate of degradation tends to level off, suggesting a more linear or even slower rate of decline than might be expected from an exponential model.
- **Later Years**: Towards the end of its lifecycle, degradation might increase again, though this stage might not be reached within the typical lifespan of a vehicle.
This pattern is supported by various studies and reports:
- Data from Tesla's own Impact Reports and owner experiences suggest that after an initial degradation, the rate slows down significantly. For instance, Tesla has reported an average capacity retention of about 88% after 200,000 miles for Model S and Model X, with Model 3 and Model Y showing similar trends but with different chemistries potentially affecting long-term degradation rates.[](electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla-update-battery-degradation/)
- Real-life data from owners show that after several years, the degradation rate can become more linear or even plateau for a period.[](electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/)
- Discussions and analyses on platforms like Tesla Motors Club and Reddit highlight that the degradation isn't strictly linear or exponential but follows a curve where initial degradation is higher, followed by a slower rate, which might pick up again after many years.[](teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-does-the-battery-degradation-curve-look-like.10708/)[](www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/17er8mq/is_10_degradation_after_3_years_normal/)[](teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/battery-degradation-scientifically-explained.153074/page-2)
In summary, while Tesla batteries don't degrade in a strictly linear or exponential manner each year, they tend to follow a non-linear curve where degradation is initially more rapid, then slows before potentially accelerating again.
I have a 2023 MYP with just over 20,000 miles on it. My S3XY Commander say 11% degradation, and it was at 9% last February, when I got the Commander. I've not run a BMW calibration yet, partly because I don't want to be without the car for 24 hours.
We are all slowly dying. The cars only give you about one third range in extreme cold.
I have a 21’ M3SR, 128k miles..I could get 253 miles when I bought it new . Now, I’m getting 235…which I think is still phenomenal.
I agree. Thanks for watching.
@@iowateslasame thing happened to me though around 80k miles. My 100% said I was getting like 150 miles and I flipped out. Brought it to the Tesla center and they had it for like 3 days. Got it back and couldn’t let it drop under 20% for 48 hours. After that, everything has been completely normal. It’s wild..the car still feels brand new at such high mileage… love it! I’ll never go back!
In april of 2020 , I received my New Model Y performance for a whopping $68K after a long wait, I believe my Factory range was around 309, After a year it dropped to 287, following year 272 at the end of a 4 year lease it was around 204 i believe, I called tesla about battery issues, I was told by Tesla field service rep that i was not following charging recommendations, nothing they could do. offered to sell a new battery at a discounted price of $14K. I passed, Lucky it was a lease. I had nothing but issues with that EV, range anxiety was the big one followed by ride comfort, rattling noises, went thru 3 sets of tires $$$, broken lose trims from factory, Dumped that pile of Junk after 4 years. Never again with another EV. Yes bought me a Camry Hybrid! XSE Love the ride
Before you assume anything from 3rd party. Use the service mode and do the High Voltage battery test. You don’t want to leave it at 100% on your battery. What you appear to be reading is the BMS for LFP battery which only some Standard Range Model 3’s had.
I use Teslafi, and based on that and my test of charging to 100% and immediately driving I have a degradation of 9% after 98K miles on my 3 year old 2021 Model Y. Based on mileage you’re a little ahead of me. My policy is if I won’t be driving much over next few days then I drop Max Charge down to 70%, then bump it up to either 80%, or if I have longer drive planned bump to to 90%, but always disconnect immediately and start charging when it gets to 90%. About once a month will bump it to 100% again unplugging and drive once it reaches its max charge and charging stops. I had Model 3, and using same charging pattern I was a little better at 7% degradation after 3 years and 97k miles.
I’m originally from Iowa and I’m thinking the extreme weather in Iowa has a factor in the battery degradation. I currently live in Massachusetts which doesn’t have the temperature extremes that Iowa does and I am looking to own a Tesla in the future. I would own a Tesla in Massachusetts but Teslas might not play nice with Iowa weather. I remember the -30 wind chills growing up in Iowa and the Midwest heat wave of 1995.
that's normal, Tesla's own chart shows the first 2-3 years has the most degradation and tapers off around 85%. the EPA estimates were too high, they were tested in ideal conditions to get that +300 miles estimate. even at new my 2023 MYLR (Austin build) was only giving me 200 miles of range. to and from work was about 42 miles using up 20-21% battery. so 2 miles per 1% of battery. hot and humid Houston conditions, driving habits, etc shows I was using 280 Wh/mi. i reset it at the beginning of Nov after a tire balance and rotation. so far i'm using 255 Wh/mi, minimal A/C use after work 2pm and almost no heater on the way to work 5am. using about 16-17% battery per 42 miles. last week Nov 30 i did the Battery Health Test and the result was 93.2% and 308 miles. even with the lower Wh/mi consumption there's no way i'm actually getting anywhere near 300 real world miles, more like 210-220 miles. the Tesla computer is still overestimating the range.
I just saw the video and the advice is very similar to what I was told, by Tesla: go as low as you can stomach and leave it plugged in, not charging, for two hours. In that time it’s ’relearning’ what ‘empty’ is. Then charge (Level 2, 6 kW+) to 100% AND stay at 100% for five hours. During that time, the BMS is relearning ‘full’ and floating the under-performing cells back up to where they should be. Good luck.
It didn’t help me because I had a lemon battery. Apparently the 2021 SR+’s have a high failure rate. Mine died around 52,000 miles and they gave me an LFP upon request. I love the feeling of such a major upgrade (a new battery at 52,000 miles) but I have some resentment that they gaslighted me for 52,000 miles. I love my car. Love Tesla. Hate Elon. That is all.
My Nissan Leaf 24kWh SOH is around 82% after almost 11years and 140kkm.....
Wait wait wait. Did you initiate the BMS Reset within service mode? There is a video that Kyle from Out of Spec did, he does this exact thing but within service mode
On the bright side, go a little harder on your battery, pass the 30% degradation that is the limit for the battery warranty and you’ll get a new battery for free.
got lucid 410 miles new 2 years later getting 390
Gas powered vehicles tend to get better mileage over time than when new.
Battery degradation is pretty normal, but it slows down over time, ICE cars lose mileage to, but you don’t notice it because they have massive range to start with.
Big thanks for sharing the results from your "resets" and the service mode test. They do say the (NCA and NMC) batteries degrade fast at first and more slowly as time goes on, and Elon has said the battery is designed to last 200K miles (one presumes that means that it is expected to keep at least 70% of its capacity at the end of the 200K miles.) The S3XY app reports that my 17 mo old 2023 MY has a 7.43% degradation, but there is some instability in the value reported by that app, which may depend on state or environmental factors, still, given your results I suppose I've lost more than I expected to over a little under 14K miles of driving. I'll be keeping tabs on the reported degradation for the next few years and see whether it follows a shallower and shallower curve.
What was your level 2 and DC charging percentage over the life of the car?
About 60% Superchargers. Lots of road trips.
13% degradation after 4 years is line with the studies I've read of Tesla batteries. I believe they lose 9-10% in the first year and about 1% each year after that. The good news is you aren't going to lose much more from this point.
I've been reading comments below and I dont understand how ppl drive so little with their tesla. I have a model 3 LR, its only been a year and I got 60,000 mile on it already. degradation for me is about 12%. I'm trying to hit 30% before my warranty expires...lol
Wow, that's a lot of miles! How do you have time to drive that much? I have a 2023 Model Y LR dual motor with 25,000 miles in 20 months.
@@burnx45 have to drive my wife to work everyday before I goto work myself. Our work place is far across 2 cities. Then have to go back and pick her up and go home. So about 200mil a day roundtrip.. plus we would go on roadtrips on the weekend or vacation.. so ya, 60k.
My 22 MYP only gets like 269 at full charge, 32,854 miles 😅
One would think that Tesla Service would offer a super duper battery recharge service that would perform at least some level of reconditioning - they have the battery expertise and should be better than anyone in this area of assist to our community