I am waiting until we have a bad winter here in UK & they are all sitting for hours/days on snow/ice blocked roads with no electric charge, no heating, not enough recovery vehicles to lift them or charge them with diesel generators. At least with petrol/ diesel you can just put a gallon in.
Agreed. The only time an EV is viable is if you can charge at home and you never exceed the vehicles paltry range. To test. I hired an EV van for a month. I cannot charge at home anyway. I gave the thing back after 2 weeks. Insufficient public chargers around here and 50% of them are out of order. Charging takes too long. It's expensive... More expensive per mile than my diesel van. The range was paltry and even worse once I'd loaded up the thing for a days work. I was getting 50 miles per charge! It was costing me too much to charge. I was having to cancel appointments due to lack of range, charge queues a charge time. It takes too long to charge. Being no4 in a queue and not having the range to get to the other nearest charge point is a dire situation to be in. I know a vehicle recovery guy. He was telling me that most of his calls now are for EVs that have got to a charge point to find they cannot charge for some reason and need recovering because they don't have the range to get anywhere else. I laughed so much it hurt.
Or if you can arrange your trip like one of the government types in the US did when she drove an EV to show how wonderful they are. Arranged for the chargers she would stop at to be serviced and fully working before she left for the trip and have the police cordon off the chargers so nobody could use it but her.
@@mguytv Not really when you think it through imo. Most can't afford to live/buy in cities these days and you can travel longer distances it may be just more inconvenient atm. Ranges are getting better, mostly, and more and more infrastructure is being put in. I don't like the things but I'm no great fan of all the conspiracy guff either.
My brother in law puts down concrete pads for charge stations. He also puts down another pad 200 metres away for the backup diesel generator just out of sight ,even though it makes it less efficient. The engineer told him the 20 car station could do an empty Tesla in 40 minutes but 2 would take 2 hours. He also said at the full 20 car load none would be fully charged in 24 hour as there was not enough power in the grid and the backup was not big enough.
Also note across the UK there are also many standby back up generators located at industrial complexes, hospitals, supermarkets, offices and shopping centres. These to have to be started up remotely by the companies who loan them to the businesses to provide extra power into the grid. I know of this as a friend of my dad's actually owns one of these companies who loan out the diesel generators and he has to charge the companies who have them to start them up each time they are required, which I can imagine is quite a lot at the moment as those white pin wheels and panels in the fields can't be providing huge amounts of power which the media keep stating.
I recently found your channel and subscribed. To echo you, I highly recommend Geoff buys cars. One point you didn't cover in this is, the EV cost £120,000 two years ago Lee still owes £77,000 And it's market value is now £43,485.
I recently drove from Surrey to York in the UK (230+ miles) in my 1.5l petrol Mini Cooper. I filled the tank at the start and filled it again when I arrived. It cost £29. It also only used half a tank so I didn't need to stop mid-journey and I could have turned around and driven straight back home again.
He'll need to choose a Rayleigh 3 speed bicycle to give you a chance. I really felt your pain on that trip. Why are electric charge points open to rain and reduce power if all the points are in use. F'ing crazy. And no bins! Just a way to sell crisps and sarnies.
Watched this trip unfold. Not surprised in the least at the outcome. The BMW even waited for the Porsche on a number of occasions. The EV didn’t even make it to Lands End. He was so far behind he went directly to the hotel for food and a pint.
@@InBodWeTrust The sale of new petrol and diesel cars has now moved to 2035 and petrol+diesel will still be available for Years after that. I know what my choice will be. You stay as a brainwashed Evangelist while it lasts and keep paying the price in money and time, I have other things to do.
@@rubberyowen1469 but I can "fill" my car up at home - I rarely need to go to a "service station" - and do so without needing to stand beside it; I can go and do other things (like sleep) and then in the morning return to a car with a full "tank". 🙂 Can you?
@@InBodWeTrust Like millions of people in the U.K. I don't have the privilege of being able to charge a car at home. You EVangelist's just think of yourselves and sod everybody else. Good luck and Take Care. 👍
Three years ago I was seriously considering buying an electric car. The only reason I didn't was that the waiting list for delivery then was a year if you were lucky, by which time the car you actually got probably wouldn't be what you ordered. I feel now that I really dodged a bullet.
I was likewise considering but live in an apartment. No way I would buy one now, batteries just not up the task at hand. If the costs come down makes no difference!
I watched both of their vlogs of this trip, I really felt for Lee, and so did Geoff. I totally agree, a EV is good for limited local use, and if you can charge at home at the moment is relatively cheap, if you stay within your home power usage plan. Other than that, they really are just a toy for the elite, who can just do what they want, just like most politicians... Thanks for giving this epic almost Top Gear journey more exposure, it really does show the practical reality of buying and using an EV...
The trouble is when they have " Conned " everyone into getting an ev they will just up the electricity tariff. Also, the no road tax bollox will get changed. Evs are great ( if they don't instantly combust😂) for short town/city driving , so governments ( if they were that bothered about " Global warming/Climate change ") they would give each household one to use as a town/city runaround. But no, it's just one big scam and i fell for the Diesel one , but i will not be fooled by this latest Thumburg Tosh.
Or you could listen to people who have had them for years. They don’t suit everyone, granted, but they are much better than shown on these anti EV pages.
I watched Lee's videos on the trip and they were brutal. I started laughing along with him but at the end I was really feeling for him. A few times he was close to tears, and he was getting nose bleeds and headaches, presumably from the stress. Lee was a broken man at the end of it. Not only did the BMW win decisively in terms of both time and fuel costs, but the icing on the cake was that Geoff worked out that the depreciation of the Porsche during the event was so high that it was more than his purchase price of the BMW. And yet, still, in the comments EV evangelists were saying that EVs are great and that it was all his own fault for not planning out his trip properly, or doing an inappropriate journey. "Who would drive from John O'Groats to Land's End?" People do stretches of that trip, and have to refuel during it all the time. AS EVIDENCED BY ALL THE OTHER CARS ON THE ROAD AND QUEUEING FOR CHARGERS.
EV evangelists are in denial. They cannot admit they made a mistake. Their ego won't let them. Imagine.. You paid £70,000+ for something far less capable of a to b transport than something that cost £1,000. Of course their £70,000 ego will kick in as self protection.
The recent video on his return back he was driving at night (a thing the EVangelists recommend) and he had to stop to charge and the high speed charger was charging slowly, the poor guy in the OVO energy van on the charger next to him arrived slightly later and he was only on 37% and by the time he would get to a full or 80% charge it would most likely be midnight or 1.00am in the morning. Its absolute madness.
Right…. Now replace the U.K. with the vast distances of the U.S.!!! Try Maine to San Diego or Miami to Seattle 😬 or just San Francisco to Washington DC….. yes, you can do it, but not in nearly the time or expense that a decently efficient ICE or hybrid can do it in.
Loving your content buddy, by the way it cost more than twice as much in fuel in the EV than the Diesel and spent 6 1/2 hrs charging. Geoff summed it up best with his comment " its like having a friend with two broken legs" 😂 which is true really cos' the EV effectively breaks down every 200 miles.. Epic ! Oh by the way, £73,000 of depreciation in 2 years (730 days) = £100 a day. In real life Lee's trip cost nearly £450, Geoffs cost £120. They must think we were born yesterday...
Some will say that the trip was not representative of a normal UK car journey. But unless you can charge the car at home and never travel more than 40% of available range, a EV driver will encounter all of the charging problems Lee did.
I have driven several 1000 kms both with a non-Tesla (Jaguar I-Pace) and several Teslas. Tesla is way ahead in charging speed and reliability. In my experience, if you are travelling a route covered by the Tesla Supercharger network, you might not lose any time compared to a combustion car. In fact, you could even arrive faster because the motor is so powerful that you can overtake in situations where you couldn't with a regular petrol car.
@@stevezodiac491 - or buy an EV for town driving for say £5-20k and an ICE for £3-5k (or hire car for £50-100/day) for special trips. None of this seems like rocket science to me, but i appreciate i've been living with EV's for years & I'm young enough to still be adaptable. My parents would never be able to work out all the apps & units of measurement lol
@@vinterskugge907 Personally i'd never go back to Tesla - i had the P85D with unlimited supercharging & they started giving me over the air updates to reduce battery range & charging speeds for 'safety' reasons. More like they just wanted to get rid of the unlimited supercharging! Like iphone all over again with battery-gate.
There's a town in the west of Scotland, Poolewe, lovely spot but remote - on the NC500 route - as most western Scottish places are. The powers-that-be put two chargers in the centre of town. When they tried hooking them up they were told that the electricity grid cannot manage it, so they remain dead over two years on. If you want to do the NC500 in an EV - good luck with that.
If the chargers are all occupied, they reduce the charging rate, so not only do you have to queue, you also have to wait even longer than if you had all the chargers to yourself.
Yes , it has to be said , its just a shit show David , and these people that think that there are going to be all manner of fast charging infrastructure all over the country for their convenience in the future are Naive , it costs a lot of money to set up chargers , Electricity is not to be screwed with , electricity is dangerous , and installations have to be done right to a very expensive standard . no if's butts or maybe`s , and just think , currently Ev`s take up a tiny , tiny percentage of road vehicles , and already they are having issues with supplying power to what is here now :). Even a huge battery/solar setup will cost a fortune , and it will need to be maintained . Wont it be ironic if in the future due to the cost of Everything electric , that everything electric becomes 3 time more expensive to buy Electricity and or pay taxes , you can see it coming a mile off .
What the hell happens on a hot day when you’ve got kids or dogs in the car? You can’t keep them cool with AC. You spend hours waiting for a charge point, in the heat, with expiring kids and dogs. It’s fucking madness.
you think that's dangerous? that's nothing compared to if you live in an area which gets winter, like upstate new york or new england, or canada. your range is cut in half AT BEST, you cannot drive an EV on an unplowed road, for fear of damaging the batteries and setting the car on fire (road salt + ice) and if you're stuck in a blizzard people will die in these things, frozen to death in hours. Best make sure you keep a blanket and food/water with you, because if you get stuck in a snowbank you're not getting out till spring.
@@arizona_anime_fan that didn’t occur to me. England isn’t that dangerous 😆. Great point that you made about greatly reduced range. Totally impractical for a huge landmass like North America.
@@martinscholes2023 I great up in buffalo, only drove there for 11 years (16-27) before moving out of town down to arizona, and I can think of multiple days I would have been stranded with an EV. I just remember driving back from a gf's house in the middle of winter, at night and it's -20C with a raging snowstorm. Just looking at the charging stations available and I would have had to take a nearly 20 mile detour on deteriorating roads to get to one, just to cover the 50 miles from her place to my place (making it a 90 mile trip), and with the reduced range in -20c and with the inches of snow build up on unplowed road there was no way an EV would have made it back to my place. I made multiple trips just like that in a gas vehicle never an issue, but an ev? couldn't have done it. and that's to say nothing for the ice storms (imagine trying to charge a car in rain and freezing ice), the blizzards (I remember a christmas it snowed 7 feet in 10 hours) and other awful weather, and it's clear to me these aren't actually "serious" vehicals. these are status symbols for moral busy bodies who want to feel superior to everyone else. I remember an ice storm in buffalo, that knocked out power to the whole city for a week. Explain to me what you'd do with an EV in that situation? how would you get supplies? what if you had an emergency? unable to charge your car for a week, in the middle of winter? good luck.
I sub to both Geoff and Lee I have watched both of their uploads - the one thing I must point out these we're single guys doing this race but how would you feel if you had your family in that EV. Them suffering the same stress that Lee did, Imagine the headache keeping kids occupied for all that time you'll end up worse than Lee did. This EV utopia is insane on so many levels never in a million year am I going to get an EV just not happening. The cost of that journey for Geoff was only £122 but for Lee it was an insane £259 and remember Ionity subsidise by Porsche but for the everyday EV use your going to be paying more. THE FUTURE OH THE JOY.
My faithful old 1990 VW Passat 1.6 Turbo diesel estate has a 25 gallon tank. At a steady 60mph it does 56mpg. That gives me a range of exactly 1400 miles on one tankful. Or to put it another way, I can drive it for over 23 hours non-stop at 60 mph, if I can stay awake that long.
I retired this year and came a cross a second-hand Mercedes C200 diesel. It was in perfect condition so I snapped it up. I bought it in March and it’s now December. I’ve only had to fuel it up 8 times for the entire year! I’m getting around 1,000kms per tank! Diesel has blown my mind. ✌️❤️🙏🇦🇺
Geoff, with a full tank in the BMW, had over a 700 mile range. He stated it in his video. Lee, in the warmer months, gets about 260 miles of range on a full charge. The Taycan EV had only a 210 mile range on a full charge because of the colder weather.
Interesting, where I live -30 C to -40 C is not uncommon in winter. I have never seen a drop in range because of cold weather on longer drives. Driving around town on short trips, and ideling more to keep the car warm on those cold days, makes fuel consumption go up, but I will still beat any EV on range.
@@andrewsarchus6036 turbodiesels in particular get better power in cold conditions as the denser air gives a better compression ratio. It sounds like hokum but in the colder evenings in the last few days I've noticed my TD having a noticeable extra punch. If that translates to lower fuel consumption when not booting it, I can't say but cold air definitely gives more oomph.
Your summary on the real use of eV of overnight charging and short trips each day reminded me of the dairy delivery service my step dad used to run. They called them 'milk floats'! 😂
I cook, I garden, I sew, cars are a tool, along with hammers, buckets and frypans BUT Geoff and Lee - and you Simon - HAVE ME HOOKED!! That challenge was riveting, fascinating and I watched every minute. Such a powerful mix of PC/woke/virtue signaling/apocalyptic crap gone mad, stupid governments, snake oil sellers, innocent victims, modern day stress, human emotions, disappointment, camaraderie, epic scenery, great rain (well for us Aussies anyway) - and all with two very likeable blokes who I would happily shout a pint for - and one for you too Simon.
Having watched the entire run by Geoff & Lee's account , I found them compelling to watch, funny at times but often really harrowing for Lee .Another madness is that the chargers are mostly uncovered so that while you are faffing about checking that they are delivering power at all , you could be getting soaked to the skin, and where to queue in order to prevent people waiting to charge, jumping the queue as ' charge -rage develops ? .I also wonder how long before the car's plugs start to give electrical contact problems with the charger due to the frequency in which they are used ?.
Excellent point. I think we would have daily fights at charging stations and possibly casualties if everyone would drive ev. It is a recipe to bring out the most brutal side of a man in response to massive frustration
I watched both of their journeys on their own channels and although I believe EVs are a total disaster, I was really hoping things would improve for Lee. He is stuck with his Taycan as the value of the thing has plummeted too. A great summary Simon and I have subscribed.
😂🤣 I love you 3 guys❤ Geoff & Lee's challenge was hilarious! The figures of time & cost at the end are totally bonkers. Poor Lee was a broken man, you could see it in his face 😪
The other unspoken problem with evs is insurance which is rising massively. My wife works for an insurance company, an elderly lady with a Tesla was up for $6000 aud per year and another with a new BYD was $2000 per year. They are becoming uninsurable.
Your assessment conclusion is the same as I have come to. EVs around town, recharge at night at home (if you can). Long range out of town = ICE. Being shaped on a rapid charger for any of a number of reasons is a real world issue. We have left the age of ‘tragic’ and most definitely IMO have entered the age of ‘bizarre’.
I wouldn't even do it for round town with home charging. Insurance rates going through the roof for a number of inevitable reasons and pretty soon house insurance will be next to impossible too along with being banned from town parking because of the fire risk. Total no-no.
Yes....The total market saturation of EV ownership will never cross 50%...(Even with a perfected technology.) And in the US, a PHEV is classified as an EV.
@@colinaldridge259 I share the same concern. Overall I would be willing to park in a garage, but with a whole lot of provisos in place before I did. The elaborate lengths we have gone to mitigate a battery fire from our eBikes is enough for me to be absolutely cautious about how to deal with an EV. In the end, is it worth it? That’s the question I keep asking myself in an age where I am considered a dinosaur if I don’t embrace BEVs. Cheers.
@@jessicahitchens6926from what Lee says on his videos he’d get rid of the car now except that he has over £70,000 negative equity with it…I really feel sorry for him…..hope his lease expires soon so he can ditch it and get back to petrol again..
The worst bit is he didn't know how much he was spending, none of the chargers showed the cost whilst charging so you just have to hope you have enough in the bank in a few days to pay. Sure they said the per KW price but then you have to figure it out yourself. Imagine at the petrol station not having the price on the pump and can't see how much fuel you are putting in..?
You wave a debit card at it to start charging, and the same card to complete charging which then gives you a total. Or if you’re using an app you get a total from that for your session. It’s almost as though things you see as problems don’t actually exist.
@@oldgit15 You forgot to mention that certain companies that Lee has already covered take a £45 debit from your card and if you spend less than that then they give you the remaining amount back SEVERAL DAYS LATER. Now add to that if you were to use these chargers regularly then you can imagine the nightmare in keeping track and ensuring your account is correctly credited each and every time if you were only putting in £20 charges because you simply don't have the time to wait. A car is a tool that makes life easier. Your EV owns you.
A friend bought a Tesla new and when something better came along sold it for more than the original price.. The something better was a one off special on the Tesla website: it was underpriced but she kept them to the offer, ended up getting it for less than the cheaper model. Made $$$$. Couple years ago and times have changed. From Lee’s experience it looks like you can’t give them away, must pay for someone to take them off your hands. £120K car £70K still owing and now valued at £40K so his equity is -£30K
@@jeremyashford2145 Tesla and better. 2 words that have never been used together in the same sentence. Tesla build quality is now used to describe shoddy bodyshop repairs. I know a few Tesla owners that are going back or have already gone back to ICE. EVs are hard to get rid of. Used car dealers will not touch them.
@@jeremyashford2145 The figures given are a sham. They are going from trade prices to retail to make them look worse. I’m not even sure of their trade figures. I cant see a taycan for less that 60/70k anywhere.
Great video. Watched Geoff’s all the way through, watched some of the MacMaster’s because they were so long. That £47 for 210 miles, with a quick calculation, works out at roughly 20 MPG equivalent in an ICE car 😂😂
@@70chevs It was, until he had that spell where he said he’d “lost the footage”, i.e. Got his foot down off camera LOL 😂 I regularly get 55-60MPG from my 2.1 diesel 👍🏼😁
@MGUY good to see you cover this too, I have watched both channels on this challenge and I am astounded by the sheer lack of proper infrastructure and the other issues within that said infrastructure. I can't understand why people fall for the EV scam!
If you watch Geoff's follow-up video on the massive depreciation of the 2 year old Porsche, it's frightening. No wonder manufacturers are having to offer huge discounts on many EVs. Finance on EV vehicle renewal is likely to be a problem for many, including company fleets.
@@raincoast9010 Due to massive depreciation the battery will be a very large part of the car cost, a 4 year old EV with a damaged battery would be written off by insurance company ( that is if you could get a company to insure the EV in the first place ).
Fact is that most production companies ( not Tesla) have just about ceased production or severely cut back production , both Ford and GM have over 80k unsold cars in stock, and here in Europe VW group have cut back as well
Did you see Lee's return journey video from Cornwall. He had to stop to charge again and the chargers there were like previous ones he saw on the way down, were slowly charging and even though Lee was stressed out he felt sorry for the OVO energy engineer next to him who had only arrived a few minutes prior to Lee filming and to charge the net zero van his company had provided he would have to probably stay at the services till past midnight. Usually by that time most of the restaurants and shops in the service station will be closed. Also with these EV long journeys you need to factor in the prices of food and drink from the nearby large corporation coffee shops, like Starbucks, that have handily opened next to the charging points as there coffee isn't cheap and usually at a services in the UK there is pretty much only one choice unless you have another catering establishment at the services.
I can't remember the exact figures on the cost but it was something like £110 for the ICE and £265 for the EV. Well over double and the journey time was around 5 more hours in total.
Just for balance. The guy that did same journey in a Tesla he used 220kwh therefore his cost was between £72 and £150. The bigger figure if he only used the most expensive chargers the smaller figure if he used Tesla at Tesla cheapest rate. So somewhere in the middle takes you to same as Geoff in his diesel.
@@DwaynePipes but not everyone wants a Tesla and obviously doesn't take into account time difference. 🙄 not everyone wants to take half as long again to do a long journey 😒.
@@davidbarrass5210 It was RSEV and he also did the journey in 18.5 hours, and now anyone can use Tesla superchargers. I wonder why this idiot chose not to?
Probably because not all Tesla chargers are available to non-Tesla drivers and the cost per kw is much higher for non-Tesla drivers. As The Porsche driver was trying to keep the cost as low as possible he would obliviously not use the Tesla chargers.@@oldgit15
It would be interesting to compare the carbon footprint of the trip in each car. Consider how many perfectly goof IC cars will be scrapped in the transition to electric, and how much worse the charging situation will become once more electric cars come on the road.
CO2 footprint of UK grid is 0.265 kgs CO2 per kWh. Diesel is 2.7 kgs per litre. Somewhere in the videos they will say how much diesel and kWh were used. EV will probably still be better on CO2 by quite a margin I suspect. If Geoff got 14 miles per litre (abt 65 mpg) he would emit 190g CO2 per mile, if EV gets at 3.5 mile per kWh that would equal 76g CO2 per mile. Bear in mind that its not like for like in this case because we have a heavy not very efficient EV v a very fuel efficient diesel. Also worth noting that an EV takes a load more CO2 to make...
@@duncanbuchanan218 Many thanks, you give plenty of figures I was ignorant about. I am surprised at he difference, considering that a power station would have about 33% efficiency, and a diesel about 25%.
We all knew what the result would be. I watched The MacMasters two videos. Very interesting stuff. You could almost feel the frustration through the screen. When he got home and put it on charge, it was going to take 12 hours to charge.
The increased sales of EVs is one of the reasons smart meters are being forced upon UK residents. The Government has foreseen the drop in road tax/revenue & smart meters have/will have the ability to measure how much electric you`re using to charge your car & tax you accordingly!
Done a trip from Liverpool to London and back in my old i3, and I can confirm it’s horrendous. Took 10 hours each way. Decided to get rid of the i3 after I got back. Never again.
I've done that journey in my Tesla, set off charged, arrive in Liverpool. Plug in charger whilst there. Drive home 4.5 hours each no stops for other than when parked up. You chose poorly for the use of vehicle. Never an issue for charging with Tesla. Plus mine was entirely free in charge cost-lifetime free super charging
@@brendykes1202 That car costs about 17k more than the i3. If you're talking about using the right tool for the job then a diesel car can beat your Model Y LR for a fraction of the price. Use the right tool for the job.
Simply amazing how the evangelists will phrase the terminology to justify their mistakes ... you lose close to 50% of your new purchase outlay in the first 12 months by buying your expensive EV in depreciation. Say 100 people in total ever want an EV and they all go out and get one ... that means that everyone else doesnt want one otherwise they would have. Now if any of those 100 want to trade it in or regret sell it ... there is no one wanting to buy them other than the 100 that already bought them .. thats why theres no market for used EV's and thats why they depreciate faster than any other vehicle in history. The truth is you were lied to about EV's.
Many, many other things to consider that Geoff also talks about. High insurance premiums, low sales worldwide, reduction in some govt. subsidies, massive depreciation, fire risk (Fremantle Highway vessel, Luton airport multi-storey car park, Cornwall home charger) repair charges etc etc.
Yes have followed both and the problems they find can also find here, Unless you have a very specific need for the rest is not practical. Which is why I would love to see Bowen and Albo made to use EV only for their Government vehicle then they might have a idea of the practicality of these cars since they are the ones pushing all of this.
EV's are not about being practical they are about denying freedom of movement to the majority of people as there will never be enough affordable EV's with enough driving range with enough electricity and enough chargers
The trip cost twice as much in "fuel" in the milk float, £250 ish against £120 ish for the diesel. As you say Simon it is laughable and sad at the same time. The milk float cost circa £120k new and after 2 years is valued at around £40k!!!!!!!
What would be a tremendous help to make EVs more practical is a small trailer with a generator and a 100 gallon fuel tank to tow behind the EV to avoid waiting at the commercial EV charging stations. The 100 gallons of fuel for the generator might go pretty quickly though. Adding another trailer with an auxiliary fuel tank seems the reasonable solution for that. (I haven’t actually done any math on this and that is the only way a word like reasonable can be used here.)
Ive watched both channels for this journey, and yes the Diesel just crushed the EV. When watching Lee’s journey (EV) I actually thought this man is close to a nervous breakdown, and I was genuinely concerned for him.
I think during the video Geoff says had 800 miles in the tank. They are having this problem with around 3% of UK cars battery electric. They say 90% of cars charged at home but I believe most EVs would be owned by people with off road parking. Around 40% of UK homes do not have this, not just flats but others such as my Victorian terrace house with pedestrian rear access (some homes have no rear access) and little or no front garden. I am in my mid 60s and never learnt to drive so do not have a car.
When you bring this issue up to the EV cult they brush it off as if it's only the poor working class have no parking and they can go on public transport.
That's the long term plan. No one has a car. Price the poor off the roads with expensive liquid fuels and out of reach unaffordable EVs. Only the rich will have one. Because it will only be the rich the market will die.
@@ibrstellar1080 There's also an idea, especially amongst posh people in urban areas, that poor people don't own cars. They need reminding that it's 2023, not the 1960's.
Well done Simon. Good content. As the EVs have become more popular, the charging infrastructure has not keep up with demand which has caused these delays due to demand in Australia during peak times like long weekends. There is one exception to this rule. I avoided said brand because it was one of the most expensive however I used it when the other providers were not available when I required. As the numbers increase, the demand on the grid will not cope unless Australia increases supply pure and simply. Unfortunately as demand on the grid increases without increasing supply has caused prices will also rise, which is a problem. When EVs become too expensive to charge at home, compared to fuel, that will be another nail in the coffin. An example of cost at todays prices is $2.89 per 100kms. This is using off peak prices(17c per kw) with a vehicle consumption 17kws per 100kms. Big if charging during the day, cost reduces by 3.9c due to solar. Obviously this is impossible whilst at work.
I've watch that challenge and I was surprised thinking that the UK would of mastered the charging system with the amount of EV's sold. We've been to the UK 9 times and driven nearly every road and what an absolute disaster, can you just imagine a Country like Australia with the distance and a huge lack of electricity infrastructure. Good Luck with that Minister Bowen.
Fewer than 1 in 10 private buyers opt for a BEV and that number is falling.They are being leased and purchased by fleet and business users because of tax incentives. The value of used BEVs has collapsed because nobody wants them.
Agree with all your input with EVs and if I was still working would not consider buying one as I my average yearly miles was 50k, but now retired having installed solar and battery’s and purchased new EV it’s brilliant only charging from home, love the car fast and very comfortable
I watched the videos of that trip, very well done, very fair. Our friends with a Tesla 3 here in Australia have given up on road trips, very similar issues as in the video.
@@mguytv This isn't government incompetence but it IS failure by design. In the future we will not be allowed to possess personal transportation unless we fight back and we will all be extremely unhappy!
Excellent summary of the outcome of the trip (it wasn’t a race!) After the MacMaster’s video we generated this little sum An average Tesla consumes 34kWh per 100 miles (.34 MWh per 1000 miles) There are 33 Million cars in the U.K. They average 7400 miles per year 33 Million x 7.4 x .34 = 89,028,000 MWh Which is 89.028TWh per year Hinkley Point C (HPC) nuclear power station will generate 25TWh per year Therefore it would take an additional 3.5 HPCs to generate the electricity to remove all diesel and petrol cars from the U.K. and that’s before we pay the cost of upgrading the distribution network to get the power to the homes and charging points
I've watched just about all the videos on both Lee's and Geoff's two channels. The largest problem here in the UK with EVs is not that there's not enough public charge points. (Though there is a chronic shortage of them). The absolute main problem is that the electricity grid can't cope with the fairly limited number of charge points we have already because the electricity grid is constantly operating at virtually maximum power generation and the demand for electricity is only going up all the time with more new houses etc. Slow charging or even charge points that are 'out of service' is a huge thing that I think will mean our politicians in the UK will kick the can down the road. This is all happening at a time when many nuclear power reactors are coming upto decommissioning and nobody has thought early enough to what they're going to replace them with. The last two UK winters my partner had had warning messages from our energy supplier of imminent brownouts because the grid can't cope. The 2030 new ICE car ban has already gone back to 2035 and I think it's only a matter of time before it's kicked down the road further. Government has totally failed in increasing electricity generation capacity enough to cope with new demand. It's a classic case of too little, too late.
And don’t forget, that most service stations have a maximum stay around 2 hours, so if you have to wait and hour and a half just to get on a charger, then you can only charge for 30 mins, otherwise you will get a fine.
I feel really sorry for poor Lee here, as he has a car that is causing him massive financial debt. He is losing money hand over fist with this Porsche Taycan. It's just mad to think that a £120k car does just 220 miles on a full charge is showing itself to be totally useless... I really hope Porsche UK makes him an offer for it, as this type of video must be indirectly costing them thousands. You would be bonkers if you brought a Porsche Taycan. This nails all the issues that were obvious to everyone except our governments...
The guy in charge of the government department responsible for the roll out of EV’s, was chosen, due to him being the only person capable of putting a new plug on a kettle lead. Most of us also suspect his family/friends might have interests in companies, which benefit from the governments I’ll-informed decisions.
@@cornishhhWhen Lee bought the Car two years ago, he was sold the dream. They were supposed to depreciate less than ICE cars, and the charging infrastructure was supposed to be largely place by now. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation two years later, couldn't be further away from that.
@@Nick_GTX I take your point, but I think it's a bit naieve to believe what might happen before it actually does. I remember a few years ago there were a lot of free EV top up points at supermarkets etc, but I think there are a lot less now ,because there are a lot more EVs. There was a successful case brought in South Korea last year proving that Tesla had been lying about the likely range of their vehicles, and the rate of battery degradation. The US Department of Justice is currently running a similar investigation.
You don't seem to understand. Land travel like this will not be allowed soon. Living inside a 10 minute city won't require a long-range car. Most people won't "need" a car and won't be allowed to have one either.
@@AndreW-rp3us LOL - did you get the impression I'm supporting the 10 minute city? BTW: I hate EV's after ovning one for 5 years. I've never frozen as much and cursed a car as much as during the time I owned it. Living in Norway now and I had to drive WITHOUT THE HEATER to be able to get to places. The frontlights were awful due to poor LED lights and the windscreen would ice over since I couldn't use the heater. The windshield wipers would turn into icy baseball bats. Luckily I'm NO LONGER an EV owner and I'll never buy one again. I wouldn't use it if they offered it for free.
@@swedishpsychopath8795 I got the impression that you have swallowed the BS about 10 minute cities. Get a grip, having facilities within easy reach where you have a choice whether to use a car or not is a good thing. Unless you wear a tin foil hat of course.
Those were the most enjoyable videos for ages. Geoff and Lee are a great double act. Felt so sorry for Lee who is such a great guy. Yes it was nearly double the cost for the Porsche.
I watched both of those RUclipsrs reports and I got frustrated and was on the sofa. I used to drive hundreds of miles a week in the UK. Motorway service stations were always more expensive than A road or town, city stations. After a while I knew if a detour off the Motorway was worth it, mind you coming home with books full of Green Shield stamps did make mum very happy. But a 20-minute fill up stop, where you could visit the washroom and maybe grab a coffee was the most time the stop would take. My nephew lived with us and had an electric bike for the school run, so overnight charge and that got to and from school, he also pedaled a bit to keep fit, this did a spot of regen. So, for that electric is good, but then we had one go on fire at a dealership locally. The fire was put out dumping 2 cu m of sand on it. This got me wondering where the bikes are parked at the school, and it was a covered area on the ground floor with two more floors of classrooms above. I had my wife call the Head teacher and point out the problem, that they had NO IDEA of. I will check later to see what's happening.
Thank you for your video, yes I totally agree with you Electric cars are ok for city use and a 50 mile radius trip from your home so that you don’t rely on the electric car charging infrastructure and just use your home charger. Great video and I’ve also watched the videos you have highlighted, what a charging nightmare Lee had with his electric car but this is not unusual by any means. Thank you again and have a great week.
As a retired Mech Engr, Research Scientist, & Govt Policy Analyst, I can authoritatively state that my 20 yr old petrol luxury car absolutely loves your channel.
Did you ever notice how EV fanatics often say that "I'll have a cup of coffee and read a book, or I'll get lunch, while my car is charging..." as if that makes it all the more palatable
Hi Simon I’m a new uk subscriber. It’s good to see a common sense approach that you have on this topic. Just to clarify Geoff buys cars did win by time and cost. Geoff spent about 230 au dollars and Lee spent 490 dollars. In fact they worked out that Lees car lost more in depreciation over the weekend than Geoff spent including buying the car.
If I remember correctly the BMW could have done the return trip as well for around the same price that the Porsche spent going one way and they also calculated the depreciation on the Porsche for the week, or month can't remember, using an official value calculator and the Porsche depreciated by around 3k in that time. Lee could have bought the BMW and gone there and back for less than the costs of the Porsche if I remember correctly. The depreciation on that Porsche has been absolutely horrific imo.
Any £100,000 car depreciates like a brick. Buy a petrol Aston Martin and watch it lose its value. A Range Rover. I had an electric car for a year and sold it for the same price (and yes I bought another electric car) I totally agree with the fact that the charging network is woeful in most countries but calm down with made up crap.
@@iancouper3644 Why are you using exotics as your example for depreciation? Both our ICE vehicles were worth more than we paid for them not long back and are now depreciating at a very slow rate. Why has Tesla dropped prices do you think? Look at the Hertz experiment recently. Why are insurance companies in the UK refusing to insure EVs or putting up premiums? I expect we will see more of these stories as the issues with EVs become more obvious as more of them are bought.
10:09 What a great attitude while giving an honest answer. Not every EV challenge is that stacked against them but most of them are still pretty stacked.
Worse than that. They offered. Free home/work charger installs. Subsidised charge electricity. Tax incentives. If it was a better transport solution. It wouldn't need them. Historically.. The new thing has been better than the preceeding thing. The EV is major step backwards.
Problem with these 'tests' is the fact that assuming neither hits any unexpected delays on the road, and that both stick to the legal speed limit and same route, an ICE will always win, given it's 5 min refill time, vs 30-60 mins for an EV. Value of EV in irrelevant, so long as it can reach the max speed limit
There was another test on RUclips where 3 cars (hybrid, plug in EV, and battery EV) took 2 trips in a convoy. They compared costs and they were very close overall. The EV was a few cents cheaper on the trip into town, but was much more expensive on the longer road trip. These things are indeed fancy golf carts that only make sense if you stay close to home.
@@ghost307 I can believe that in many circumstances. I like the idea of phev's if you have a small commute and can home charge on a cheap time of day tariff, but yeah, I'm waiting a few years before I even consider taking the plunge
The manufacturers tell us the range using 100% of battery but then they say "don't charge to more than 80% and don't drop below 30% " so basically you should only use 50% of the battery to prolong the life of the battery , so you're told 250miles range ,then cut that by 50% = 125miles
On top of this, one of my favourite stats that Lee & Geoff worked out that the Porsche cost more in depreciation over the duration of the trip than the BMW cost to buy and fuel - even before adding the horrendous charging costs.
I have watched the two videos on the trip by Geoff as yet I have not yet seen Lee's videos of the trip. EVs are not the future as the infrastructure is so far behind, and in some cases impossible for everyone to replace their cars with on even if they do make them with safer batteries. The follow up videos that Geoff did where really eye opening and the mental depreciation of Lee's car. We all know that cars lose value to a certain point, but the wiping of of Value of an EV especially Lee's car is really scary. To the Point that in a few years time that will be an affordable car until the Batteries need to be replaced, and then that will know doubt be more than the remaining value in the car. I wouldn't want to own a car that I have to scrap just be cause I can't replace the main part. You could compare the cost to replacing an engine on a real car.
In the UK, the nation grid company has said it cant add any more resources to the system, so theres about 200 bill in renewable kit just sitting in warehouses. Apparently the wait time for it to handle new renewables is about 12 years! Also, Havant council has just switched off 98 sergers around Southampton, due to "a fault in installing them".
4:27 “Four cars waiting - every charger occupied. Hour and a half wait to even GET to the charger…”
Ordinary people shall not drive a car in the future
@@alfaradbean unless you stand up now there will be no-one else to blame
This is the future....if you decide to follow the stupidity.
by my reckoning every EV owner is on their 10th booster & cannot wait for the next one.
I've got better things yo do with my day!
I think EV's are fantastic because it gets more driver's off the road while there all lined up waiting to charge 😂
Haha!
But they are heros, martyrs of Climate Change!
You are EVIL - but in a good way LOL!
I never thought of that , and quieter fuel stations. !........keep em coming ....LOL.....
I am waiting until we have a bad winter here in UK & they are all sitting for hours/days on snow/ice blocked roads with no electric charge, no heating, not enough recovery vehicles to lift them or charge them with diesel generators. At least with petrol/ diesel you can just put a gallon in.
11:11 One thing you missed when making the only possible case for EVs, is the exhorbitant cost of insuring them now..
Soon some of them will be in-assurable, I’m looking at you BYD
Evs are too much of a risk to homes because of the cars catching on fire. Soon home insurance will not insurance if you have an ev.
The government knows at least 95% of us will never be able to afford all this in time and money. I refuse to ever give up my Ford petrol engine car.
To add salt to the wound the Porsche EV went from £120,000 to £40,000 in value. What a depreciation?
Government:
Govern=Control
Ment(Latin)=Lie.
Imagine that, eh?!
@@tonysheerness2427 Expensive lesson going green 🤣.
That's the idea they don't want us going anywhere
@@jonsnow6741 Except into silos to feed bugs and power plants via the Nanotech pumped into our bodies via the jabs.
Agreed.
The only time an EV is viable is if you can charge at home and you never exceed the vehicles paltry range.
To test. I hired an EV van for a month.
I cannot charge at home anyway.
I gave the thing back after 2 weeks.
Insufficient public chargers around here and 50% of them are out of order.
Charging takes too long.
It's expensive... More expensive per mile than my diesel van.
The range was paltry and even worse once I'd loaded up the thing for a days work.
I was getting 50 miles per charge!
It was costing me too much to charge. I was having to cancel appointments due to lack of range, charge queues a charge time.
It takes too long to charge.
Being no4 in a queue and not having the range to get to the other nearest charge point is a dire situation to be in.
I know a vehicle recovery guy. He was telling me that most of his calls now are for EVs that have got to a charge point to find they cannot charge for some reason and need recovering because they don't have the range to get anywhere else.
I laughed so much it hurt.
Or if you can arrange your trip like one of the government types in the US did when she drove an EV to show how wonderful they are.
Arranged for the chargers she would stop at to be serviced and fully working before she left for the trip and have the police cordon off the chargers so nobody could use it but her.
@@ghost307 yup. Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.
@@ghost307probably how all state funded channels and shows "prove" EV is good
I wonder what his tow truck ran on?...
correct. we have a leaf and it's only good for that
It's all about 15 minute cities. EV's are not supposed to go very far to keep you imprisoned in your own town.
Yeah nah it's not imo.
That is true - the only possible use case
@@mguytv Not really when you think it through imo.
Most can't afford to live/buy in cities these days and you can travel longer distances it may be just more inconvenient atm.
Ranges are getting better, mostly, and more and more infrastructure is being put in.
I don't like the things but I'm no great fan of all the conspiracy guff either.
@@oldbloke20415 minute cities Social credit scores and Geo fencing and gates 🐵
@@monkeyonarock PERIMITTER COLARS
My brother in law puts down concrete pads for charge stations. He also puts down another pad 200 metres away for the backup diesel generator just out of sight ,even though it makes it less efficient. The engineer told him the 20 car station could do an empty Tesla in 40 minutes but 2 would take 2 hours. He also said at the full 20 car load none would be fully charged in 24 hour as there was not enough power in the grid and the backup was not big enough.
This is your entry for ‘Things that didn’t happen’ yes?
@@oldgit15This your remark for ‘things that don’t happen in my little deluded world’?
@@TrueSkyl1n3 Well I wouldn’t have been quite that rude about him, but yes, if you like.
Also note across the UK there are also many standby back up generators located at industrial complexes, hospitals, supermarkets, offices and shopping centres. These to have to be started up remotely by the companies who loan them to the businesses to provide extra power into the grid. I know of this as a friend of my dad's actually owns one of these companies who loan out the diesel generators and he has to charge the companies who have them to start them up each time they are required, which I can imagine is quite a lot at the moment as those white pin wheels and panels in the fields can't be providing huge amounts of power which the media keep stating.
truth I am afraid to say.@@oldgit15
I recently found your channel and subscribed. To echo you, I highly recommend Geoff buys cars. One point you didn't cover in this is, the EV cost £120,000 two years ago Lee still owes £77,000 And it's market value is now £43,485.
Thanks for the sub!
There is one born every minute of the day.
That’s BS. You can’t find a taycan for £40,000. Go look.
I think you will find that a week later the valuation was down to £40,000.
And to add insult to injury, the value of the EV went down just during that trip!
I recently drove from Surrey to York in the UK (230+ miles) in my 1.5l petrol Mini Cooper. I filled the tank at the start and filled it again when I arrived. It cost £29. It also only used half a tank so I didn't need to stop mid-journey and I could have turned around and driven straight back home again.
Great video. I was literally a broken man. Only just recovered. North to South Wales Challenge next. But what car will Geoff choose? 🕶️
Bloody hell Lee, you really are a sucker for punishment mate. 😁😁
Are there any chargers in the North Wales Valleys?
He'll need to choose a Rayleigh 3 speed bicycle to give you a chance.
I really felt your pain on that trip. Why are electric charge points open to rain and reduce power if all the points are in use. F'ing crazy. And no bins! Just a way to sell crisps and sarnies.
Glad to hear you’re recovering Lee. Stay safe pal ❤
Come to Australia and do Sydney to Perth. Also subbed your channel mate.
Watched this trip unfold. Not surprised in the least at the outcome.
The BMW even waited for the Porsche on a number of occasions.
The EV didn’t even make it to Lands End. He was so far behind he went directly to the hotel for food and a pint.
And yet Richard Symons did it in a Tesla in circa 18.5 hours - but I guess it’s easier to monetise bad news, even if you have to fake it.
@@oldgit15 100% agree - the challenge was fixed from the get-go ... but the EV haters are too stupid to realise this
@@InBodWeTrust The sale of new petrol and diesel cars has now moved to 2035 and petrol+diesel will still be available for Years after that. I know what my choice will be. You stay as a brainwashed Evangelist while it lasts and keep paying the price in money and time, I have other things to do.
@@rubberyowen1469 but I can "fill" my car up at home - I rarely need to go to a "service station" - and do so without needing to stand beside it; I can go and do other things (like sleep) and then in the morning return to a car with a full "tank". 🙂 Can you?
@@InBodWeTrust Like millions of people in the U.K. I don't have the privilege of being able to charge a car at home. You EVangelist's just think of yourselves and sod everybody else. Good luck and Take Care. 👍
Three years ago I was seriously considering buying an electric car. The only reason I didn't was that the waiting list for delivery then was a year if you were lucky, by which time the car you actually got probably wouldn't be what you ordered. I feel now that I really dodged a bullet.
I was likewise considering but live in an apartment. No way I would buy one now, batteries just not up the task at hand. If the costs come down makes no difference!
I watched both of their vlogs of this trip, I really felt for Lee, and so did Geoff. I totally agree, a EV is good for limited local use, and if you can charge at home at the moment is relatively cheap, if you stay within your home power usage plan. Other than that, they really are just a toy for the elite, who can just do what they want, just like most politicians... Thanks for giving this epic almost Top Gear journey more exposure, it really does show the practical reality of buying and using an EV...
The trouble is when they have " Conned " everyone into getting an ev they will just up the electricity tariff. Also, the no road tax bollox will get changed. Evs are great ( if they don't instantly combust😂) for short town/city driving , so governments ( if they were that bothered about " Global warming/Climate change ") they would give each household one to use as a town/city runaround. But no, it's just one big scam and i fell for the Diesel one , but i will not be fooled by this latest Thumburg Tosh.
Or you could listen to people who have had them for years. They don’t suit everyone, granted, but they are much better than shown on these anti EV pages.
They are not anti. They are realistic.
In the mean time, He charged from a coal fired plant....
@@iancouper3644
@@iancouper3644 at the moment they are highly subsidized.... cause they are that good.
@@donavonlarney you know the oil industry is subsidised too… don’t you ?? Cause they’re that good too ??
The series by Geoff and lee is well worth seeing, yes its 8+ hours, but well documented
I watched Lee's videos on the trip and they were brutal. I started laughing along with him but at the end I was really feeling for him. A few times he was close to tears, and he was getting nose bleeds and headaches, presumably from the stress. Lee was a broken man at the end of it.
Not only did the BMW win decisively in terms of both time and fuel costs, but the icing on the cake was that Geoff worked out that the depreciation of the Porsche during the event was so high that it was more than his purchase price of the BMW.
And yet, still, in the comments EV evangelists were saying that EVs are great and that it was all his own fault for not planning out his trip properly, or doing an inappropriate journey. "Who would drive from John O'Groats to Land's End?" People do stretches of that trip, and have to refuel during it all the time. AS EVIDENCED BY ALL THE OTHER CARS ON THE ROAD AND QUEUEING FOR CHARGERS.
EV evangelists are in denial.
They cannot admit they made a mistake. Their ego won't let them.
Imagine.. You paid £70,000+ for something far less capable of a to b transport than something that cost £1,000.
Of course their £70,000 ego will kick in as self protection.
The recent video on his return back he was driving at night (a thing the EVangelists recommend) and he had to stop to charge and the high speed charger was charging slowly, the poor guy in the OVO energy van on the charger next to him arrived slightly later and he was only on 37% and by the time he would get to a full or 80% charge it would most likely be midnight or 1.00am in the morning. Its absolute madness.
Right…. Now replace the U.K. with the vast distances of the U.S.!!! Try Maine to San Diego or Miami to Seattle 😬 or just San Francisco to Washington DC….. yes, you can do it, but not in nearly the time or expense that a decently efficient ICE or hybrid can do it in.
@@guyforlogos you'd struggle to do San Diego to San Francisco in an EV
@@sahhull I agree!
Loving your content buddy, by the way it cost more than twice as much in fuel in the EV than the Diesel and spent 6 1/2 hrs charging. Geoff summed it up best with his comment " its like having a friend with two broken legs" 😂 which is true really cos' the EV effectively breaks down every 200 miles.. Epic ! Oh by the way, £73,000 of depreciation in 2 years (730 days) = £100 a day. In real life Lee's trip cost nearly £450, Geoffs cost £120. They must think we were born yesterday...
There we have it then, EV's aren't worth the stress factor.
Some will say that the trip was not representative of a normal UK car journey. But unless you can charge the car at home and never travel more than 40% of available range, a EV driver will encounter all of the charging problems Lee did.
Dead right, 99% of car owners do long distances some time. A car is bought to cover every scenario generally.
I have driven several 1000 kms both with a non-Tesla (Jaguar I-Pace) and several Teslas. Tesla is way ahead in charging speed and reliability. In my experience, if you are travelling a route covered by the Tesla Supercharger network, you might not lose any time compared to a combustion car.
In fact, you could even arrive faster because the motor is so powerful that you can overtake in situations where you couldn't with a regular petrol car.
@@stevezodiac491 - or buy an EV for town driving for say £5-20k and an ICE for £3-5k (or hire car for £50-100/day) for special trips. None of this seems like rocket science to me, but i appreciate i've been living with EV's for years & I'm young enough to still be adaptable. My parents would never be able to work out all the apps & units of measurement lol
@@vinterskugge907 Personally i'd never go back to Tesla - i had the P85D with unlimited supercharging & they started giving me over the air updates to reduce battery range & charging speeds for 'safety' reasons. More like they just wanted to get rid of the unlimited supercharging! Like iphone all over again with battery-gate.
@@vinterskugge907 I like "Covered by the Tesla Supercharger Network" . Honestly , you people .
There's a town in the west of Scotland, Poolewe, lovely spot but remote - on the NC500 route - as most western Scottish places are. The powers-that-be put two chargers in the centre of town. When they tried hooking them up they were told that the electricity grid cannot manage it, so they remain dead over two years on. If you want to do the NC500 in an EV - good luck with that.
Forest Green North on the M1 has the same problem, just 2 chargers and both shut down since they were put in quite a long time ago.
If the chargers are all occupied, they reduce the charging rate, so not only do you have to queue, you also have to wait even longer than if you had all the chargers to yourself.
Yes , it has to be said , its just a shit show David , and these people that think that there are going to be all manner of fast charging infrastructure all over the country for their convenience in the future are Naive , it costs a lot of money to set up chargers , Electricity is not to be screwed with , electricity is dangerous , and installations have to be done right to a very expensive standard . no if's butts or maybe`s , and just think , currently Ev`s take up a tiny , tiny percentage of road vehicles , and already they are having issues with supplying power to what is here now :).
Even a huge battery/solar setup will cost a fortune , and it will need to be maintained .
Wont it be ironic if in the future due to the cost of Everything electric , that everything electric becomes 3 time more expensive to buy Electricity and or pay taxes , you can see it coming a mile off .
I can imagine the scene at a petrol station where the pumping rate is reduced because somebody else is pumping petrol too.
What the hell happens on a hot day when you’ve got kids or dogs in the car? You can’t keep them cool with AC. You spend hours waiting for a charge point, in the heat, with expiring kids and dogs. It’s fucking madness.
Lee got locked in his ev at home on another video if you were stuck out with the family and no means of getting out.
@@janolaful dangerous to say the least. I don’t even trust my laptop to run properly, so why should I trust my life and those I love with a death trap
you think that's dangerous? that's nothing compared to if you live in an area which gets winter, like upstate new york or new england, or canada. your range is cut in half AT BEST, you cannot drive an EV on an unplowed road, for fear of damaging the batteries and setting the car on fire (road salt + ice) and if you're stuck in a blizzard people will die in these things, frozen to death in hours. Best make sure you keep a blanket and food/water with you, because if you get stuck in a snowbank you're not getting out till spring.
@@arizona_anime_fan that didn’t occur to me. England isn’t that dangerous 😆. Great point that you made about greatly reduced range. Totally impractical for a huge landmass like North America.
@@martinscholes2023 I great up in buffalo, only drove there for 11 years (16-27) before moving out of town down to arizona, and I can think of multiple days I would have been stranded with an EV. I just remember driving back from a gf's house in the middle of winter, at night and it's -20C with a raging snowstorm. Just looking at the charging stations available and I would have had to take a nearly 20 mile detour on deteriorating roads to get to one, just to cover the 50 miles from her place to my place (making it a 90 mile trip), and with the reduced range in -20c and with the inches of snow build up on unplowed road there was no way an EV would have made it back to my place. I made multiple trips just like that in a gas vehicle never an issue, but an ev? couldn't have done it. and that's to say nothing for the ice storms (imagine trying to charge a car in rain and freezing ice), the blizzards (I remember a christmas it snowed 7 feet in 10 hours) and other awful weather, and it's clear to me these aren't actually "serious" vehicals. these are status symbols for moral busy bodies who want to feel superior to everyone else.
I remember an ice storm in buffalo, that knocked out power to the whole city for a week. Explain to me what you'd do with an EV in that situation? how would you get supplies? what if you had an emergency? unable to charge your car for a week, in the middle of winter? good luck.
I sub to both Geoff and Lee I have watched both of their uploads - the one thing I must point out these we're single guys doing this race but how would you feel if you had your family in that EV. Them suffering the same stress that Lee did, Imagine the headache keeping kids occupied for all that time you'll end up worse than Lee did. This EV utopia is insane on so many levels never in a million year am I going to get an EV just not happening. The cost of that journey for Geoff was only £122 but for Lee it was an insane £259 and remember Ionity subsidise by Porsche but for the everyday EV use your going to be paying more. THE FUTURE OH THE JOY.
Imagine the 'are we nearly there yet daddy' voices from the back seats....
My faithful old 1990 VW Passat 1.6 Turbo diesel estate has a 25 gallon tank. At a steady 60mph it does 56mpg. That gives me a range of exactly 1400 miles on one tankful. Or to put it another way, I can drive it for over 23 hours non-stop at 60 mph, if I can stay awake that long.
Is it a estate one handy old car them passat estate and the 1.6 TD was good motor!
That is incredibly impressive
🤣 I love it! EVs are crap and the majority of the people know
Give over! I don’t think a small car like that has over a 100 litre tank
More like 70 max
100 liters tank? BS.
I retired this year and came a cross a second-hand Mercedes C200 diesel. It was in perfect condition so I snapped it up. I bought it in March and it’s now December. I’ve only had to fuel it up 8 times for the entire year! I’m getting around 1,000kms per tank! Diesel has blown my mind. ✌️❤️🙏🇦🇺
MC Master took 10 years off his life doing this.
Round of applause for the poor man.
🤣🤣🤣
Hear hear, i felt his pain whilst watching his brain melt out of his nose....
It was sad to watch how the reality of the trip took such a toll
His bank balance goes up with all the views though. You won't hear him complain about that.😂
@@DwaynePipes you know those jobs where the guy's earning loads but you'd rather starve than do?..(working with kids, deep sea welder etc) ...that.
What a waste, no idea.
Absolutely love this series you are doing on EV reality! Keep them coming!
Geoff, with a full tank in the BMW, had over a 700 mile range. He stated it in his video. Lee, in the warmer months, gets about 260 miles of range on a full charge. The Taycan EV had only a 210 mile range on a full charge because of the colder weather.
And because of the rain, had to have the A/C on to keep the cabin from misting up, which knocked it down further
Do ICE cars get better range in colder weather due to increased air density? Of course they'd lose some of that in increased drag but just a thought.
Interesting, where I live -30 C to -40 C is not uncommon in winter. I have never seen a drop in range because of cold weather on longer drives. Driving around town on short trips, and ideling more to keep the car warm on those cold days, makes fuel consumption go up, but I will still beat any EV on range.
Hahahahahaha.... 😂 Yes, that makes a difference... 😂
@@andrewsarchus6036 turbodiesels in particular get better power in cold conditions as the denser air gives a better compression ratio. It sounds like hokum but in the colder evenings in the last few days I've noticed my TD having a noticeable extra punch. If that translates to lower fuel consumption when not booting it, I can't say but cold air definitely gives more oomph.
Your summary on the real use of eV of overnight charging and short trips each day reminded me of the dairy delivery service my step dad used to run. They called them 'milk floats'! 😂
Andy, that’s what Lee calls his EV Porsche! 😂😂😂
I cook, I garden, I sew, cars are a tool, along with hammers, buckets and frypans BUT Geoff and Lee - and you Simon - HAVE ME HOOKED!! That challenge was riveting, fascinating and I watched every minute. Such a powerful mix of PC/woke/virtue signaling/apocalyptic crap gone mad, stupid governments, snake oil sellers, innocent victims, modern day stress, human emotions, disappointment, camaraderie, epic scenery, great rain (well for us Aussies anyway) - and all with two very likeable blokes who I would happily shout a pint for - and one for you too Simon.
Having watched the entire run by Geoff & Lee's account , I found them compelling to watch, funny at times but often really harrowing for Lee .Another madness is that the chargers are mostly uncovered so that while you are faffing about checking that they are delivering power at all , you could be getting soaked to the skin, and where to queue in order to prevent people waiting to charge, jumping the queue as ' charge -rage develops ? .I also wonder how long before the car's plugs start to give electrical contact problems with the charger due to the frequency in which they are used ?.
You then have to crank the heater in the car way up to dry out using up the power.
Excellent point. I think we would have daily fights at charging stations and possibly casualties if everyone would drive ev. It is a recipe to bring out the most brutal side of a man in response to massive frustration
Cost was £120 in the Diesel versus £260 in the EV. Geoff also arrived 4.5 hrs before Lee on the second day (approx 425 mile trip).
Imagine if you were trying to run a business and making it much more difficult for yourself. .
BUT lee bypassed charger that were cheaper. could have charged more at 30p but no lets use the expensive chargers
it is all a LIE....
I watched both of their journeys on their own channels and although I believe EVs are a total disaster, I was really hoping things would improve for Lee. He is stuck with his Taycan as the value of the thing has plummeted too. A great summary Simon and I have subscribed.
😂🤣 I love you 3 guys❤ Geoff & Lee's challenge was hilarious! The figures of time & cost at the end are totally bonkers. Poor Lee was a broken man, you could see it in his face 😪
Imagine that trip with family ???
@@ciupak7932 Are we nearly there yet daddy ?
The other unspoken problem with evs is insurance which is rising massively.
My wife works for an insurance company, an elderly lady with a Tesla was up for $6000 aud per year and another with a new BYD was $2000 per year.
They are becoming uninsurable.
Much cheaper than some UK quotes I've heard!
Your assessment conclusion is the same as I have come to. EVs around town, recharge at night at home (if you can). Long range out of town = ICE. Being shaped on a rapid charger for any of a number of reasons is a real world issue. We have left the age of ‘tragic’ and most definitely IMO have entered the age of ‘bizarre’.
I wouldn't even do it for round town with home charging. Insurance rates going through the roof for a number of inevitable reasons and pretty soon house insurance will be next to impossible too along with being banned from town parking because of the fire risk. Total no-no.
Yes....The total market saturation of EV ownership will never cross 50%...(Even with a perfected technology.)
And in the US, a PHEV is classified as an EV.
Problem is, I'd be scared to put an EV in my garage.
@@colinaldridge259 I share the same concern. Overall I would be willing to park in a garage, but with a whole lot of provisos in place before I did. The elaborate lengths we have gone to mitigate a battery fire from our eBikes is enough for me to be absolutely cautious about how to deal with an EV. In the end, is it worth it? That’s the question I keep asking myself in an age where I am considered a dinosaur if I don’t embrace BEVs. Cheers.
The MacMaster has already been knocked sideways once with that jab - you'd think he'd be learning by now. 🙂
Awesome video as always - well done guys!
If he doesn't start looking after himself properly and binning the EV I can see him dying. His partner should be helping him to get healthier.
@@jessicahitchens6926 Ya his diet is atrocious!
@@jessicahitchens6926from what Lee says on his videos he’d get rid of the car now except that he has over £70,000 negative equity with it…I really feel sorry for him…..hope his lease expires soon so he can ditch it and get back to petrol again..
The worst bit is he didn't know how much he was spending, none of the chargers showed the cost whilst charging so you just have to hope you have enough in the bank in a few days to pay. Sure they said the per KW price but then you have to figure it out yourself. Imagine at the petrol station not having the price on the pump and can't see how much fuel you are putting in..?
You wave a debit card at it to start charging, and the same card to complete charging which then gives you a total. Or if you’re using an app you get a total from that for your session. It’s almost as though things you see as problems don’t actually exist.
@@oldgit15 You forgot to mention that certain companies that Lee has already covered take a £45 debit from your card and if you spend less than that then they give you the remaining amount back SEVERAL DAYS LATER. Now add to that if you were to use these chargers regularly then you can imagine the nightmare in keeping track and ensuring your account is correctly credited each and every time if you were only putting in £20 charges because you simply don't have the time to wait. A car is a tool that makes life easier. Your EV owns you.
Rogue charge points will be springing up with ridiculously expensive premium rate prices.
Anybody who has bought or is thinking about buying an EV must be very gullible to the official narrative.
Must have lost thousands in depreciation.
A friend bought a Tesla new and when something better came along sold it for more than the original price..
The something better was a one off special on the Tesla website: it was underpriced but she kept them to the offer, ended up getting it for less than the cheaper model.
Made $$$$.
Couple years ago and times have changed.
From Lee’s experience it looks like you can’t give them away, must pay for someone to take them off your hands.
£120K car £70K still owing and now valued at £40K so his equity is -£30K
@@jeremyashford2145 Tesla and better.
2 words that have never been used together in the same sentence.
Tesla build quality is now used to describe shoddy bodyshop repairs.
I know a few Tesla owners that are going back or have already gone back to ICE.
EVs are hard to get rid of. Used car dealers will not touch them.
@@jeremyashford2145 The figures given are a sham. They are going from trade prices to retail to make them look worse. I’m not even sure of their trade figures. I cant see a taycan for less that 60/70k anywhere.
@@sahhulland yet there are used EV car dealers selling used EVs.😮 How does that equate?🤔
Great video. Watched Geoff’s all the way through, watched some of the MacMaster’s because they were so long.
That £47 for 210 miles, with a quick calculation, works out at roughly 20 MPG equivalent in an ICE car 😂😂
I watched both channels and Geoff's diesel was getting around 60 mpg.
@@70chevs It was, until he had that spell where he said he’d “lost the footage”, i.e. Got his foot down off camera LOL 😂
I regularly get 55-60MPG from my 2.1 diesel 👍🏼😁
@MGUY good to see you cover this too, I have watched both channels on this challenge and I am astounded by the sheer lack of proper infrastructure and the other issues within that said infrastructure. I can't understand why people fall for the EV scam!
Check out Geoff's updates since and MacMaster's Taycan depreciated more during the trip, than Geoff's entire costs including buying the BMW.
If you watch Geoff's follow-up video on the massive depreciation of the 2 year old Porsche, it's frightening. No wonder manufacturers are having to offer huge discounts on many EVs. Finance on EV vehicle renewal is likely to be a problem for many, including company fleets.
not to mention the rise in insurance premiums, IF you can even get a policy to cover your EV, due to risks involved.
Just imagine the mess when the batteries all come up for replacement, what will that do to the value of the EV? Will it even be worth it?
@@raincoast9010 Due to massive depreciation the battery will be a very large part of the car cost, a 4 year old EV with a damaged battery would be written off by insurance company ( that is if you could get a company to insure the EV in the first place ).
Fact is that most production companies ( not Tesla) have just about ceased production or severely cut back production , both Ford and GM have over 80k unsold cars in stock, and here in Europe VW group have cut back as well
@@budbud2509 The gloss is beginning to wear off Tesla as well, despite the company having P T Barnum in charge of marketing
Did you see Lee's return journey video from Cornwall. He had to stop to charge again and the chargers there were like previous ones he saw on the way down, were slowly charging and even though Lee was stressed out he felt sorry for the OVO energy engineer next to him who had only arrived a few minutes prior to Lee filming and to charge the net zero van his company had provided he would have to probably stay at the services till past midnight. Usually by that time most of the restaurants and shops in the service station will be closed.
Also with these EV long journeys you need to factor in the prices of food and drink from the nearby large corporation coffee shops, like Starbucks, that have handily opened next to the charging points as there coffee isn't cheap and usually at a services in the UK there is pretty much only one choice unless you have another catering establishment at the services.
I can't remember the exact figures on the cost but it was something like £110 for the ICE and £265 for the EV. Well over double and the journey time was around 5 more hours in total.
Think they worked it out at 6 hrs total, but would have been more if Geoff hadn't waited with Lee on a couple of occasions.
Just for balance.
The guy that did same journey in a Tesla he used 220kwh therefore his cost was between £72 and £150. The bigger figure if he only used the most expensive chargers the smaller figure if he used Tesla at Tesla cheapest rate. So somewhere in the middle takes you to same as Geoff in his diesel.
@@DwaynePipes but not everyone wants a Tesla and obviously doesn't take into account time difference. 🙄 not everyone wants to take half as long again to do a long journey 😒.
@@davidbarrass5210 It was RSEV and he also did the journey in 18.5 hours, and now anyone can use Tesla superchargers. I wonder why this idiot chose not to?
Probably because not all Tesla chargers are available to non-Tesla drivers and the cost per kw is much higher for non-Tesla drivers. As The Porsche driver was trying to keep the cost as low as possible he would obliviously not use the Tesla chargers.@@oldgit15
It would be interesting to compare the carbon footprint of the trip in each car. Consider how many perfectly goof IC cars will be scrapped in the transition to electric, and how much worse the charging situation will become once more electric cars come on the road.
CO2 footprint of UK grid is 0.265 kgs CO2 per kWh. Diesel is 2.7 kgs per litre. Somewhere in the videos they will say how much diesel and kWh were used. EV will probably still be better on CO2 by quite a margin I suspect. If Geoff got 14 miles per litre (abt 65 mpg) he would emit 190g CO2 per mile, if EV gets at 3.5 mile per kWh that would equal 76g CO2 per mile. Bear in mind that its not like for like in this case because we have a heavy not very efficient EV v a very fuel efficient diesel. Also worth noting that an EV takes a load more CO2 to make...
@@duncanbuchanan218 Many thanks, you give plenty of figures I was ignorant about. I am surprised at he difference, considering that a power station would have about 33% efficiency, and a diesel about 25%.
I'd buy another 92 corolla before an EV!!!
Great video. Thanks for this summary of Geoff and Lee's adventure.
We all knew what the result would be. I watched The MacMasters two videos. Very interesting stuff. You could almost feel the frustration through the screen. When he got home and put it on charge, it was going to take 12 hours to charge.
The increased sales of EVs is one of the reasons smart meters are being forced upon UK residents. The Government has foreseen the drop in road tax/revenue & smart meters have/will have the ability to measure how much electric you`re using to charge your car & tax you accordingly!
Fear not.
A tax on EV driving is coming and (of course) the government will also keep the extra money from the electrics meters.
Done a trip from Liverpool to London and back in my old i3, and I can confirm it’s horrendous. Took 10 hours each way. Decided to get rid of the i3 after I got back. Never again.
Model Y LR can do that in 3hr 19min (8 min charge) Use the right tool for the job.
I've done that journey in my Tesla, set off charged, arrive in Liverpool. Plug in charger whilst there. Drive home 4.5 hours each no stops for other than when parked up. You chose poorly for the use of vehicle. Never an issue for charging with Tesla. Plus mine was entirely free in charge cost-lifetime free super charging
@@brendykes1202 That car costs about 17k more than the i3. If you're talking about using the right tool for the job then a diesel car can beat your Model Y LR for a fraction of the price. Use the right tool for the job.
@@CyrilSneer123 diesel is more expensive than gas here in the US, so I don’t think that’s the case. Compare 5 year ownership cost to make it relevant.
Simply amazing how the evangelists will phrase the terminology to justify their mistakes ... you lose close to 50% of your new purchase outlay in the first 12 months by buying your expensive EV in depreciation.
Say 100 people in total ever want an EV and they all go out and get one ... that means that everyone else doesnt want one otherwise they would have. Now if any of those 100 want to trade it in or regret sell it ... there is no one wanting to buy them other than the 100 that already bought them .. thats why theres no market for used EV's and thats why they depreciate faster than any other vehicle in history.
The truth is you were lied to about EV's.
Many, many other things to consider that Geoff also talks about. High insurance premiums, low sales worldwide, reduction in some govt. subsidies, massive depreciation, fire risk (Fremantle Highway vessel, Luton airport multi-storey car park, Cornwall home charger) repair charges etc etc.
Yes have followed both and the problems they find can also find here, Unless you have a very specific need for the rest is not practical. Which is why I would love to see Bowen and Albo made to use EV only for their Government vehicle then they might have a idea of the practicality of these cars since they are the ones pushing all of this.
Most journeys are
EV's are not about being practical they are about denying freedom of movement to the majority of people as there will never be enough affordable EV's with enough driving range with enough electricity and enough chargers
The trip cost twice as much in "fuel" in the milk float, £250 ish against £120 ish for the diesel. As you say Simon it is laughable and sad at the same time. The milk float cost circa £120k new and after 2 years is valued at around £40k!!!!!!!
Following both guys, very stressful for ev man ,not to mention the depreciation of the porche was greater than the entire cost of the BMW and ⛽️....😊😅
What would be a tremendous help to make EVs more practical is a small trailer with a generator and a 100 gallon fuel tank to tow behind the EV to avoid waiting at the commercial EV charging stations. The 100 gallons of fuel for the generator might go pretty quickly though. Adding another trailer with an auxiliary fuel tank seems the reasonable solution for that. (I haven’t actually done any math on this and that is the only way a word like reasonable can be used here.)
Theres another vid about depreciation, the Porche lost TEN THOUSAND UK POUNDS during that driving challenge
Ive watched both channels for this journey, and yes the Diesel just crushed the EV. When watching Lee’s journey (EV) I actually thought this man is close to a nervous breakdown, and I was genuinely concerned for him.
I think during the video Geoff says had 800 miles in the tank. They are having this problem with around 3% of UK cars battery electric. They say 90% of cars charged at home but I believe most EVs would be owned by people with off road parking. Around 40% of UK homes do not have this, not just flats but others such as my Victorian terrace house with pedestrian rear access (some homes have no rear access) and little or no front garden. I am in my mid 60s and never learnt to drive so do not have a car.
When you bring this issue up to the EV cult they brush it off as if it's only the poor working class have no parking and they can go on public transport.
That's the long term plan.
No one has a car.
Price the poor off the roads with expensive liquid fuels and out of reach unaffordable EVs.
Only the rich will have one. Because it will only be the rich the market will die.
@@ibrstellar1080 There's also an idea, especially amongst posh people in urban areas, that poor people don't own cars.
They need reminding that it's 2023, not the 1960's.
I watched the geoff and lee and was not surprised at the result at all ! . Great vid. as always . THANKS !!!
A follow from Wales bud! And an EV owner. I knew lee would lose badly. 😂😂 I also have a diesel Pug 508 that has 900 mile on full tank/charge! 😉
Well done Simon. Good content. As the EVs have become more popular, the charging infrastructure has not keep up with demand which has caused these delays due to demand in Australia during peak times like long weekends.
There is one exception to this rule. I avoided said brand because it was one of the most expensive however I used it when the other providers were not available when I required. As the numbers increase, the demand on the grid will not cope unless Australia increases supply pure and simply. Unfortunately as demand on the grid increases without increasing supply has caused prices will also rise, which is a problem. When EVs become too expensive to charge at home, compared to fuel, that will be another nail in the coffin. An example of cost at todays prices is $2.89 per 100kms. This is using off peak prices(17c per kw) with a vehicle consumption 17kws per 100kms. Big if charging during the day, cost reduces by 3.9c due to solar. Obviously this is impossible whilst at work.
The taycan depreciated more than the cost of the BMW and fuel on this journey. 😮
120k car and it'll be worth 50 quid in 2030. ev's are a scam
Geoff buys cars , he's brilliant. Great video mate , this video should definitely be mandatory viewing for young people buying their first car .
I've watch that challenge and I was surprised thinking that the UK would of mastered the charging system with the amount of EV's sold. We've been to the UK 9 times and driven nearly every road and what an absolute disaster, can you just imagine a Country like Australia with the distance and a huge lack of electricity infrastructure. Good Luck with that Minister Bowen.
Fewer than 1 in 10 private buyers opt for a BEV and that number is falling.They are being leased and purchased by fleet and business users because of tax incentives. The value of used BEVs has collapsed because nobody wants them.
John O’ Groats is the most northerly point in mainland Scotland 🏴. After that it’s a long-ish ferry journey to Orkney and Shetland Isles.
Agree with all your input with EVs and if I was still working would not consider buying one as I my average yearly miles was 50k, but now retired having installed solar and battery’s and purchased new EV it’s brilliant only charging from home, love the car fast and very comfortable
I watched the videos of that trip, very well done, very fair. Our friends with a Tesla 3 here in Australia have given up on road trips, very similar issues as in the video.
The Taycan was also depreciating in value at a rate of more than £450 per day!
Hahaha. Yep!!!
@@mguytv This isn't government incompetence but it IS failure by design. In the future we will not be allowed to possess personal transportation unless we fight back and we will all be extremely unhappy!
Excellent summary of the outcome of the trip (it wasn’t a race!)
After the MacMaster’s video we generated this little sum
An average Tesla consumes 34kWh per 100 miles (.34 MWh per 1000 miles)
There are 33 Million cars in the U.K.
They average 7400 miles per year
33 Million x 7.4 x .34 = 89,028,000 MWh
Which is 89.028TWh per year
Hinkley Point C (HPC) nuclear power station will generate 25TWh per year
Therefore it would take an additional 3.5 HPCs to generate the electricity to remove all diesel and petrol cars from the U.K. and that’s before we pay the cost of upgrading the distribution network to get the power to the homes and charging points
I was seriously thinking of buying a new Ev and even spent £900 having a charger installed , but now I've bought a petrol hybrid ,
I've watched just about all the videos on both Lee's and Geoff's two channels.
The largest problem here in the UK with EVs is not that there's not enough public charge points. (Though there is a chronic shortage of them). The absolute main problem is that the electricity grid can't cope with the fairly limited number of charge points we have already because the electricity grid is constantly operating at virtually maximum power generation and the demand for electricity is only going up all the time with more new houses etc. Slow charging or even charge points that are 'out of service' is a huge thing that I think will mean our politicians in the UK will kick the can down the road. This is all happening at a time when many nuclear power reactors are coming upto decommissioning and nobody has thought early enough to what they're going to replace them with. The last two UK winters my partner had had warning messages from our energy supplier of imminent brownouts because the grid can't cope.
The 2030 new ICE car ban has already gone back to 2035 and I think it's only a matter of time before it's kicked down the road further. Government has totally failed in increasing electricity generation capacity enough to cope with new demand. It's a classic case of too little, too late.
I sub to both channels and I've seen their clips. It is hilariously tragic that EV's fail more than their manufacturers do. No switching for me...
And don’t forget, that most service stations have a maximum stay around 2 hours, so if you have to wait and hour and a half just to get on a charger, then you can only charge for 30 mins, otherwise you will get a fine.
I feel really sorry for poor Lee here, as he has a car that is causing him massive financial debt. He is losing money hand over fist with this Porsche Taycan. It's just mad to think that a £120k car does just 220 miles on a full charge is showing itself to be totally useless... I really hope Porsche UK makes him an offer for it, as this type of video must be indirectly costing them thousands. You would be bonkers if you brought a Porsche Taycan. This nails all the issues that were obvious to everyone except our governments...
The guy in charge of the government department responsible for the roll out of EV’s, was chosen, due to him being the only person capable of putting a new plug on a kettle lead.
Most of us also suspect his family/friends might have interests in companies, which benefit from the governments I’ll-informed decisions.
This video trip has already cost them. They've discounted the price of the Tycans by £5k.
Nobody forced him to buy it. The shortcomings of EV's aren't exactly difficult to see.
@@cornishhhWhen Lee bought the Car two years ago, he was sold the dream. They were supposed to depreciate less than ICE cars, and the charging infrastructure was supposed to be largely place by now. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation two years later, couldn't be further away from that.
@@Nick_GTX I take your point, but I think it's a bit naieve to believe what might happen before it actually does.
I remember a few years ago there were a lot of free EV top up points at supermarkets etc, but I think there are a lot less now ,because there are a lot more EVs.
There was a successful case brought in South Korea last year proving that Tesla had been lying about the likely range of their vehicles, and the rate of battery degradation.
The US Department of Justice is currently running a similar investigation.
The grid in Perth WA struggles to cope in the heat of summer.
You don't seem to understand. Land travel like this will not be allowed soon. Living inside a 10 minute city won't require a long-range car. Most people won't "need" a car and won't be allowed to have one either.
What if the tin foil runs out in your 10 minuite city, what will you use?
@@AndreW-rp3us LOL - did you get the impression I'm supporting the 10 minute city? BTW: I hate EV's after ovning one for 5 years. I've never frozen as much and cursed a car as much as during the time I owned it. Living in Norway now and I had to drive WITHOUT THE HEATER to be able to get to places. The frontlights were awful due to poor LED lights and the windscreen would ice over since I couldn't use the heater. The windshield wipers would turn into icy baseball bats. Luckily I'm NO LONGER an EV owner and I'll never buy one again. I wouldn't use it if they offered it for free.
@@swedishpsychopath8795 I got the impression that you have swallowed the BS about 10 minute cities. Get a grip, having facilities within easy reach where you have a choice whether to use a car or not is a good thing. Unless you wear a tin foil hat of course.
Those were the most enjoyable videos for ages. Geoff and Lee are a great double act. Felt so sorry for Lee who is such a great guy. Yes it was nearly double the cost for the Porsche.
I think it might be a good idea to make conversion kits to make EV's have diesel or petrol engines like us normal people
It would be a better idea to buy a hybrid then.
I watched both of those RUclipsrs reports and I got frustrated and was on the sofa. I used to drive hundreds of miles a week in the UK. Motorway service stations were always more expensive than A road or town, city stations. After a while I knew if a detour off the Motorway was worth it, mind you coming home with books full of Green Shield stamps did make mum very happy.
But a 20-minute fill up stop, where you could visit the washroom and maybe grab a coffee was the most time the stop would take.
My nephew lived with us and had an electric bike for the school run, so overnight charge and that got to and from school, he also pedaled a bit to keep fit, this did a spot of regen. So, for that electric is good, but then we had one go on fire at a dealership locally. The fire was put out dumping 2 cu m of sand on it. This got me wondering where the bikes are parked at the school, and it was a covered area on the ground floor with two more floors of classrooms above. I had my wife call the Head teacher and point out the problem, that they had NO IDEA of. I will check later to see what's happening.
Thank you for your video, yes I totally agree with you Electric cars are ok for city use and a 50 mile radius trip from your home so that you don’t rely on the electric car charging infrastructure and just use your home charger. Great video and I’ve also watched the videos you have highlighted, what a charging nightmare Lee had with his electric car but this is not unusual by any means. Thank you again and have a great week.
As a retired Mech Engr, Research Scientist, & Govt Policy Analyst, I can authoritatively state that my 20 yr old petrol luxury car absolutely loves your channel.
Did you ever notice how EV fanatics often say that "I'll have a cup of coffee and read a book, or I'll get lunch, while my car is charging..." as if that makes it all the more palatable
Hi Simon I’m a new uk subscriber. It’s good to see a common sense approach that you have on this topic. Just to clarify Geoff buys cars did win by time and cost. Geoff spent about 230 au dollars and Lee spent 490 dollars. In fact they worked out that Lees car lost more in depreciation over the weekend than Geoff spent including buying the car.
Very good summary. Toyota have it right Self charging hybrids are the way to go
On the last survey of public EV chargers in Los Angeles, 40% of them were broken.
If I remember correctly the BMW could have done the return trip as well for around the same price that the Porsche spent going one way and they also calculated the depreciation on the Porsche for the week, or month can't remember, using an official value calculator and the Porsche depreciated by around 3k in that time.
Lee could have bought the BMW and gone there and back for less than the costs of the Porsche if I remember correctly.
The depreciation on that Porsche has been absolutely horrific imo.
100% correct
Wow
Any £100,000 car depreciates like a brick. Buy a petrol Aston Martin and watch it lose its value. A Range Rover. I had an electric car for a year and sold it for the same price (and yes I bought another electric car) I totally agree with the fact that the charging network is woeful in most countries but calm down with made up crap.
@@iancouper3644 Why are you using exotics as your example for depreciation?
Both our ICE vehicles were worth more than we paid for them not long back and are now depreciating at a very slow rate.
Why has Tesla dropped prices do you think?
Look at the Hertz experiment recently.
Why are insurance companies in the UK refusing to insure EVs or putting up premiums?
I expect we will see more of these stories as the issues with EVs become more obvious as more of them are bought.
@@oldbloke204 Because a Porsche is an exotic car. Hardly gonna compare it with Kia.
10:09 What a great attitude while giving an honest answer. Not every EV challenge is that stacked against them but most of them are still pretty stacked.
Well Done to all three of you.
Better than top gear. 😅
My wife has an Ioniq hybrid. Fills up once a year but, as mentioned, it’s great for short trips and a recharge.
Longer trips do use gas.
They offered free electricity to EV owners to buy them, how can they subsidies the rich by taxing the poor?
"subsidies the rich by taxing the poor"? Isn't that just normal government policy nowadays?
Worse than that.
They offered.
Free home/work charger installs.
Subsidised charge electricity.
Tax incentives.
If it was a better transport solution. It wouldn't need them.
Historically.. The new thing has been better than the preceeding thing.
The EV is major step backwards.
@@sahhull Hmm, home charging. How many people only have street parking. Lots of fun if you have 2 cars.
@@KangoV in the UK.. 40% of drivers don't have an allocated place to park. So no drive or dedicated space.
@@sahhull Exactly. The only place they can charge is on a forecourt somewhere which means expensive energy.
Bravo, the other day I was in the process of sending you a link to the GBC John O’Groats to Lands End
Remote area chargers in Australia are diesel powered 😂
10:27 Cullompton is on the M5, in south-west England near Exeter. It is around 3 hours drive to Land's End,
Problem with these 'tests' is the fact that assuming neither hits any unexpected delays on the road, and that both stick to the legal speed limit and same route, an ICE will always win, given it's 5 min refill time, vs 30-60 mins for an EV.
Value of EV in irrelevant, so long as it can reach the max speed limit
There was another test on RUclips where 3 cars (hybrid, plug in EV, and battery EV) took 2 trips in a convoy.
They compared costs and they were very close overall.
The EV was a few cents cheaper on the trip into town, but was much more expensive on the longer road trip.
These things are indeed fancy golf carts that only make sense if you stay close to home.
@@ghost307 I can believe that in many circumstances.
I like the idea of phev's if you have a small commute and can home charge on a cheap time of day tariff, but yeah, I'm waiting a few years before I even consider taking the plunge
The manufacturers tell us the range using 100% of battery but then they say "don't charge to more than 80% and don't drop below 30% " so basically you should only use 50% of the battery to prolong the life of the battery , so you're told 250miles range ,then cut that by 50% = 125miles
Geoff needs to rebrand his channel to 'Geoff buys REAL cars'.
On top of this, one of my favourite stats that Lee & Geoff worked out that the Porsche cost more in depreciation over the duration of the trip than the BMW cost to buy and fuel - even before adding the horrendous charging costs.
I have watched the two videos on the trip by Geoff as yet I have not yet seen Lee's videos of the trip. EVs are not the future as the infrastructure is so far behind, and in some cases impossible for everyone to replace their cars with on even if they do make them with safer batteries. The follow up videos that Geoff did where really eye opening and the mental depreciation of Lee's car. We all know that cars lose value to a certain point, but the wiping of of Value of an EV especially Lee's car is really scary. To the Point that in a few years time that will be an affordable car until the Batteries need to be replaced, and then that will know doubt be more than the remaining value in the car. I wouldn't want to own a car that I have to scrap just be cause I can't replace the main part. You could compare the cost to replacing an engine on a real car.
As a rural Californian, I'm loving your videos!
So use case for electric car is exactly the same as electric scooter :D
In the UK, the nation grid company has said it cant add any more resources to the system, so theres about 200 bill in renewable kit just sitting in warehouses. Apparently the wait time for it to handle new renewables is about 12 years! Also, Havant council has just switched off 98 sergers around Southampton, due to "a fault in installing them".