Criminal Lawyer Reacts to the UNPRECEDENTED SENTENCING of Ethan Crumbley's Parents
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2024
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Criminal Lawyer Bruce Rivers Reacts to the UNPRECEDENTED SENTENCING of Ethan Crumbley's Parents
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when the young lady said said she doesn't feel like 15 years is long enough bc the victim didn't even get 15 years to live, that hit me hard. very powerful words
I completely agree. My heart spilled from chest when I heard that.
I hope some day the parents can come to this same moment to realize their actions
Selfish, that's what came to mind.
Absolutely 💯%!
James Crumbley’s phone calls threatening the prosecutor proved to me that he’s exactly where he belongs
I got that impression they day it happened. The parents fled and hid. Things that make you say hmm
Roger that!
What an idiot 😱
The decision is dead right in this particular case, the Crumly's are scum, but it sets a dangerous president
Yes, how he wasn't conveying his delight about losing his liberty because of the actions of a relative is simply beyong the realms of human reason, let him eat cake I say !
Wot! WOT !!
The Crumbley’s claim that they never had a clue that their son was capable of this behavior, then why when they heard that there is an active shooter at Oxford, they both immediately thought it could be Ethan. Jennifer is texting Ethan “don’t do it”, meanwhile, James leaves the school area to race home to look for the gun. No other parent with children at that school acted like the Crumbley’s.
Good points. They failed as parents & don't want to take responsibility for arming their child to kill. Insane
That very morning he had drawn a picture of him committing the acts and when Jennifer went to the school she said “I have to work he can’t come home” then went on a date with her boyfriend
Hey Goldstein. Is it true in the talmud it says when the messiah comes you will have 2800 slaves?
And what's up with calling non Jews human cattle and beasts?
Thanks!
Is it true israel attacked the uss liberty in 1967?
And then skipped town afterward
Their son, Ethan, sent texts to his mom, which were ignored, telling her that he thought someone was in the house, etc., etc., they were with their horses and never answered him . . . Never! Also, ge asked to see a therapist, his mom laughed and his dad told him to suck it up. That's why they were convicted.
No one should EVER have to hear SUCK IT UP! Especially the mentally ill. They can’t help or control their mental illness. They feel helpless and hopeless. Instead they should see all the love and support from their loved ones. They should never feel alone. If you have anyone who has mental illness in your circle of friends or family, PLEASE never turn them away. If you can help in anyway, it means the world to them. You might be saving someone’s life.
My son suffers from a mental illness but, he refuses to accept it. This has been going on for years and years. He's been hospitalized several times in the past 10 years. He recently said to me "Imagine looking down the barrel of a loaded gun and praying that the person on the other side pulls the trigger." My response was "it's called suicide by cop." He insists that he is not suicidal but how am I, as his parent, supposed to respond to that? He's home now. And the job has fallen onto my shoulders to make sure he is okay, takes his meds, continues with his therapy, and stays out of the hospital. It's overwhelming at times. Having said that, there is no way in Hell I'd give him access to a deadly weapon. I worry about my kitchen knives...
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. ☹
You are doing great. Thats alot to open up about.
As a psychologist, I hope that you are getting therapy too. Self care is very important. You are doing all that you can as a parent and you should have support as well. Being in your position is very stressful and I hope that you take care of yourself too. You should have some healthy coping mechanisms. I sincerely wish you the best and hope you take as good of care for yourself and you do your son.
You are in a terrible predicament. It's no wonder you're overwhelmed. I hope you are getting therapy/support yourself. Can't pour from an empty cup. Blessings and love.
I’m sorry you and your son are dealing with this.
I’m in a similar boat. But unlike the Crumbley’s, I got my kid in to therapy as soon as there were issues and I’ve been staying on top of his meds, even when he doesn’t want to take them.
I don’t think my son would ever hurt anyone else, but I don’t want him to hurt himself either. So, we don’t have any guns.
At times I’ve had to stay with my kid 24/7 to be sure he won’t hurt himself. (It’s not so bad. We talk or distract ourselves with movies)
Hospitalizing my kid was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, but we did it because it was necessary.
Basically, when my kid started struggling, the easiest decision in the world was to get him help. It was so easy to decide that this was more than we could handle and to call a therapist.
The therapist then referred us to a psychiatrist.
The decision to hospitalize my kid was hard mostly because he and I are very close and I was scared for him. But it wasn’t difficult to choose to get him help.
I’ve had multiple meetings with his school counselor. Usually if I’m meeting with the counselor in person rather than talking over the phone, that means they want me to take him home for the day.
And I do.
I just don’t understand these parents sitting on their hands, doing nothing, while their child screams for help.
Neither the mother and father have ZERO remorse. They stole their son's money and took the first train to splitzville...and had to be tracked down; and were still defiant. I am very satisfied that they have to serve time for their neglect.
Remorse is for people who’ve committed actual crimes not political pawns
@@HKRAQwho is dead here?
Exactly. And regardless of the reasons for them needing to be in jail, also if they were out and they didn’t have to parent him, they’d be getting exactly what they wanted.
@@HKRAQEw, stop! This isnt about politics. This parents did so much wrong in this case, they should feel remorse for the things they’ve done wrong here. If they’ve has act on their responsibility as a parent there maybe were another outcome. Bare minimum is to not buy your kid a gun, especially if they are already struggeling with their mental health. But yes, from all i saw in the trials about them from them i‘m not surprised they don’t show remorse.
Stealing their son's money to flee the police is not only outright pathetic but also rhymes with how they stole their son's future by evading their parental responsibilities.
As a teacher, I am 1000000% not surprised at these parents and their lack of remorse and total blame on the school. I see this time and time again.
Absolutely!
You guys are heroes like firefighters, in this country you risk your life every day going into a school now. I'm glad I never had children, I couldn't deal knowing every time they went to school this could happen.
Yes, and it needs to stop. This has to happen.
We are seeing the result of children raised by Daycare & parents who have no common sense, and lack responsibility.
Strong families with both mom and dad in the home are the foundation of a strong community and Nation.
ALL are dependant upon taking responsibility for oneself (as adults) and parents.
The loss of those lives was completely avoidable.
Not a math teacher, I hope!
I am a teacher, and my district is not far away from where this incident occurred, so I am very informed about all aspects of this case that have been released. In fact, after this happened, many districts in the general area of Oxford had fake threats called into the schools, which led to schools deciding to close.
With that said, as a parent and a teacher who has seen way too many school shootings on the news, when the charges were initially filed against the Crumbleys, I was conflicted about placing the blame of the son’s actions on his parents. However, the more I learned, I was proud of Prosecutor McDonald’s decision to attempt to hold them accountable. Obviously everyone cannot know all there is to know about each case, but my recommendation is that if you are conflicted about the decision to attempt to hold the Crumbley parents accountable for their son’s actions and/or how the juries were able to convict them, familiarize yourself with this case. I feel you will quickly learn how badly the ‘parents’ not only prioritized themselves over their son many times, but also seemed to intentionally ignore a plethora of warning signs showing Ethan was struggling in a multitude of alarming ways, desperately craved for the attention of his parents, and was ultimately disregarded and failed by them. Tragically, it appears the actions/inactions of the parents sadly led to unimaginable and (in my opinion) avoidable consequences.
❤❤
THANK YOU
Thank you!
I'm a retired teacher and thank you for this spot on post.
I'm surprised that as a teacher, you keep mums about the 2 school admins (lack of) actions that allowed the wolf to go back to the hen house. if you catch my drift.
Amen! So well said!
My son had issues at 13, we got him some help and now he’s graduating this year and placed superior at state level for French horn. If you have a kid that needs the help don’t ignore them
Hell yea
Ethan Crumbley could have had the very same future ahead of him instead of rotting in prison for the rest of his life, were it not for his parents.
Glad to hear a positive outcome.
French horn is one of the more difficult instruments!! Good job -- he must be very talented. Many universities give scholarships or "talent grants" to instrumentalists to play in Wind Ensemble or Orchestra and you don't even have to major in music. You could be a math major, or science, English, anything you want, and still get the scholarship. It's all merit based. All you usually have to do in return is play in the ensembles, which is so fun and where you'll meet a lot of your life-long friends.
Twenty-five years ago I got a full tuition and fees scholarship to college on oboe, but majored in psychology. However, most of my friends were in the music department and I ended up with a minor in music!!;
@taramcgavan7654 Many issues get treated, that's why some diagnoses are chronic and some aren't. Lets not pretend like we know enough about the situation to comment on his future, because we don't. Leave that up to his medical professionals and his family.
They didn’t just buy the gun and ammo, they laughed off multiple signs of an issue. They didn’t secure the gun. They didn’t get him help. They may not have pulled the trigger but they were negligent.
Makes me wonder if they secretly hoped he do himself in so they’d be rid of him.
@libbylandscape3560 I've said that from the beginning. They were sick of being parents to a high needs child so they did everything they could to push him that way.
I agree with you 100% BUT so many parents have guns at home and teach their kids how to shoot. This is quite normal, isn't it?
Absolutely!!! Had they just cared enough about their son… made sure he got the help he needed, put up anything that could have possibly been used to harm himself and ESPECIALLY others, hell even take him out of school until he was back on track… ALL of this could have been prevented
@@agavictoria there is nothing wrong with teaching a child to shoot. But as the parent it is your job to secure the guns in a manner your child cannot access unauthorized. Also there appears to be to have been multiple signs just that we heard of that their son needed help and they ignored them.
What kind of advice to your child is "Don't get caught?" These parents also demonstrated their own lack of responsibility when they ran- while said child was in police custody. It seems to me that being held accountable might actually do this couple some good.
~
The man who embraced his son's killer reminds me of what a father of one of Gary Ridgway's victims said in court: "You've made it hard to live up to what I believe, but the Lord says to forgive ALL- so, I forgive you. And I feel sorry for you." (Ridgway cried only during that statement.)
I don't understand how anything those "parents" did was unintentional. Dude was telling them multiple times he heard voices that wanted him to do horrible things. He was asking them for help and not many kids do that; I never told my dad I needed help. The school told them about what he'd write and drew and they _ignored everything._ He wanted help. They legit didn't give a shit and gave him a gun. I blame them for the shooting more than the kid. They deserve to be thrown under the jail because none of this would have happened if they didn't ignore their son and the school and the bright, flashing red warning signs
As soon as I learned about all of this, I agree. My heart sank and made me all the more (from what I already was) angrier at these so called “parents”
I asked for help, and my mom got me into therapy. Listen to your children!
I agree.
Exactly! Point so well said! I really think Bruce didn't watch this trial, cuz there's no way he could say this was unintentional and minimize these people's behavior if he did.
Thank you for acknowledging the kid asking his parents for help about the voices. It took some bravery to ask someone for help and be vulnerable about sharing that. It took even more bravery with the kind of uncaring parents that kid had in the first place where the likelihood of rejection or not receiving help was incredibly high.
Other lawyers: "this is not legal advice"
Bruce: "I'm your own criminal lawyer"
😂😂😂😂
Always thought it was wild he said that. Every other attorney-tuber CYAs while Bruce just brings the charm.
Can't be a good lawyer without bending the rules. 🤣🤣
*"...your very own, personal criminal defence lawyer". Yeah, not much of a disclaimer! But, that said, if you're stupid enough to take what you watch online as 'legal advice', you're a clown. 🤡
Right lol I’m just imagining someone gets arrested who watches Bruce all the time…
Perp:”Bring me my very own personal lawyer!”
Cop:“Okay… Who is he?”
Perp:“Bruce Rivers, he’s the criminal lawyer…”
*while beat boxing
He's an OG
He told his parents he heard voices. They told him to get over it and they refused the the counsellor's request to take home. I watched both trials. The judge was spot on. The defendant's jailhouse threats to the prosecutor did not help.
I treated my late dog better then those parents treated their human child. I took her to vet when she limped, or even when she showed any signs of pain or discomfort.....(edit) These people should not be allowed to own a dog , let alone raise a human child.
Don’t forget the mom was getting therapy herself but refused getting her son help. Nevermind the fact she clearly cared more for the horses than her son.
if my child were to tell me that they're hearing voices that would concern me to no end and i would immediately reach out to everyone until i found the proper help.
You have a Constitutional Right to bear arms and you cannot predict what another person is gonna do these charges against parents is Nasty Mental Health is a huge problem most people cannot afford to get Help😮🤔
The other piece is that James gave Ethan random pills and yelled at him.
I will tell u 1 thing. I'm a single mom with 4 teen age children. I work a fill time job then come home and take care of my kids. I know the importance of working and holding down a job so I can afford to keep the bills paid and Food on the table. 2 of my daughters suffer from mental health issues. Since this case, I think twice about leaving my daughter at school when problems arise. The key, I think is transparency. I make sure everyone knows that I am doing everything I possibly can for my children-so that we are all on the same page. The Crumblys just didn't pay attention to their child. He needed attention and help- they did absolutely NOTHING. And what they did do was buy the gun, show him how shoot and leave it unlocked. This is yet another tragedy that could've been avoided if time, attention and due diligence was given. Very sad 😔
You are amazing, I think you are a super human parent and doing the right things💪🏻 It ain’t easy.
Bless you.
I hope your girls heal and find healthy ways to cope. It sounds like you’re doing your very best; I hope your kids see that later down the line and value you highly because of it ❤
@anisvadjian5142 Thank you for that! Kindness is everything and I really appreciate your words ❤️🥰
Better hope. After this trial, they don’t do something bad. Or you’ll be held responsible
My cousin is a survivor of the Oxford School Shooting. I’ve been in that very court room. Sick. Absolutely sick.
Glad he got out okay👍
🙏🏼for your family. Just to go through it, forget actually being injured by it. Either way you’re changed for life.
🌹🌹💔🌹
@@commonsense571 I don't want to sound, arrogant but. I think I know how to fix this whole, American school system catastrophes.
@@commonsense571 people who do these, horrible things. Are extensively analyzed. Right? I think that's the allure. Instead of being fascinating or at the very least try to "understand" what happened. It just shows those who don't get attention that they can if they do something like that. But if we made it a habit of praising the victims and thinking nothing of the monster, it should persuade others from doing tne same because they won't be idolized they'll be despised. The Exact opposite of what they want, which is how we Always should have treated it. It's only a problem because outcasts think it will make them famous, I hear that Every Single court case. I mean am I wrong?!
His parents disgust me. How do you see the warning signs and instead of getting him help you buy him a gun?!
Apparently shooting the wildlife is the local culture for teenagers. The parents thought they could bond with Ethan over this hobby. They should have chosen something else like golf.
@@Woodman-Spare-that-treeghee! Guns! What fun! Definitely USAmerican culture! Yeah ya rite! Guns! Guns! Guns!! = love!
Switzerland has more armed citizens than USA. It's not the guns. It's the culture of violence and the lack of discipline.
@@Woodman-Spare-that-treeit is not legal to hunt wildlife with a semi auto handgun. That gun is only meant for killing people.
Given everything I've heard about the parents, I'm not convinced they were surprised or unhappy with the outcome.
I have zero compassion for the parents after watching the trial. That kid was pleading for help and his parents were too busy to be bothered by that pesky thing called being a parent.
Yeah because compassion is what determines if a crime was committed or not
@@HKRAQ No but total neglect is.
@@HKRAQActions do- surely you know that, but you can still have compassion for someone that committed a crime. Or not, depending on if you relate to the situation in which the crime happened.
I agree with OP, I don’t relate to them or their decisions whatsoever and I think they got off easy af. Their behavior was disgusting and beyond anything any good person could find compassion for imo.
@@SoundWave1984-cu6xb by all means these are awful trash human beings, but it’s insane they can be given 15 years in prison for something they didn’t do.
Keep abortion legal.
I think with your drunk driving analogy the Crumbley's equivalent would be if they bought the son his own personal supply, ignored the flyer on the fridge for the BYOB party, and was annoyed when the neighbor tried to give a heads up on street racing rumors
Also bought him a race car as a Christmas gift, then told him to have a fun weekend
I have some respect for Mrs Crumbley for not bulls****ing in her statement. At least we didn’t have to listen to her saying how sorry she was & that she loves those kids & blah blah like we did with Ruby Franke.
Don’t get me wrong, she’s where she’s supposed to be, but at least we didn’t have to listen to her crap. She’s a POS & she didn’t deny it.
As for her husband, can’t see him lasting long in prison with his ‘tough guy, I will take you down’ attitude. There are harder guys than him in prison.
Thanks Bruce, for your take on this. It’s always interesting listening to your views.
Hugs from Australia 🇦🇺
I hope they both have a hard time in prison.
“In a world of hate, we need more grace.” I like that Bruce!
Nearly brought a tear to my eye when he said that. Thanks for posting.
Seriously..what a beautiful thing to say.💙🤍
In general that's a nice statement but it doesn't seem appropriate in this case; both Jennifer and James are so self absorbed that they would take any "grace" as proof they did nothing wrong.
@@bel3133 100% but it definitely landed with me when he said it.
@@saram3156 Naw, I disagree; I mean, if a person is obligated forgive bc of their religion that's one thing, but otherwise personal healing can absolutely happen without "grace" and definitely without some courtroom hug. Particularly for a highly politicized topic like school shootings, it can do more harm than good. Too many bad people out there would salivate at the idea of the parents who lost their children giving James or Jennifer a big hug.
They IGNORED their child's pleas for help. He was experiencing hallucinations, on a regular basis.
They were too busy with their affairs and horses!
In this situation I think its less "give your kid the keys to your car and hope they drink and drive" and more "give your kid a beer after they told you they're going to be driving"
18:00 along these lines of staying calm when others are not... if I have to make a phone call where I know I'll get heated, I stand in front of the mirror so I can really keep myself in check.
Found out my ex was cheating on me. That phone call was fun!
" WHY AREN'T YOU YELLING AT ME? Why are you SO CALM?!? *YOU'RE FREAKING ME OUT!!!* "
Feel free to borrow that one 😊
The one thing I disagree on is the whole 'what parent doesn't love their child' there are plenty of horrible parents out there that don't care at all for their children. Two parents that ignored their kid to the point where he was literally saying 'At least respond, please' are people who don't care for their child.
Exactly.
You're absolutely right. Sad but very true. I was one of those unloved, unwanted kids. There are lots of us in the world
I completely agree. It’s difficult though for people who feel unconditional love for family to understand others who just don’t feel that at all, so I get why Bruce can think that. If you’re someone who grew up in a loving environment it’s almost like an alien way of thinking to treat a child like this.
@@JustJesstheMess me too.
You are so right!!!
My late son, Jordan, had severe mental illnesses and he self medicated when no meds ever helped. Poor guy struggled his whole life and I used tough love while I broke down behind the locked door when necessary...I got courts involved to keep him on probation to force him to take meds, help keep him sober, and get him into group home. I always made sure he knew I loved him and would support his sobriety. He died on Christmas 2021 from a heart arrhythmia related to the long-term med and drug damage called a "natural cause" at 27. 😭 He always wanted a gun "to end his pain" and I'm the reason he could not get one and lost him anyway. I know he's finally free from the voices that tortured him, but my soul is shattered. I have to suck it up for Jordan's 3 sisters and my 13 grands,one coming in August to be named Bo Jordan ❤.
You don’t have to suck it up, brother. You’ve endured a lot of pain. Your son endured a short life of pain, but he did endure until his body failed him. You are brave. Your son was brave. Mourn him in your own time but put down the burden of being strong for others for a little while.
Yes, you "lost" him in the end, but you didn't lose the good ,hard working, sober guy you loved to for so many extra years, to the heartbreak of seeing him shatter his, and many others lives. You saved him from that terrible fate, and yourself from the pain that goes along with anyone of good conscience who had done nothing and let it just happen
Bless you for being there for him. People have no idea how hard dealing with mental illness is.
You have my heartfelt condolences.
So sorry for what you have gone through. Hugs.
So very sorry, there could not be anything worse than losing a child. Some parents are angels on earth and you loved your son like an angel.
Sitting here in Albuquerque after Hannah Guttierez’ yesterday sentencing, watching you talk about James Crumbley’s phone calls, thinking HOOOOBOY. I hope this doesn’t become a trend! Now I’m wondering if she got the idea from him? She did exactly the same thing! And it had exactly the same result! I’m 72 and observing what appears to be the dumbing down of America has been a fascinating and un-nerving experience. Thanks for being one of my favorite LawTube teachers!
🌶🐈🌶
I just want to add, though. Something’s bugging me. When I was 12, I lost my big brother - my only sibling. It was a climbing accident n the Jemez mountains. Partly his fault, partly someone else’s. I had no hopes and dreams for him that I lost. My loss wasn’t about his future or mine. My loss wasn’t about anything like that, nor was that the case for my DEVASTATED parents. It was about losing HIM, the person, the boy I lived with, fought with, let teach me things like math and monopoly, who occupied the bedroom next to mine, played a trumpet, put up with me getting sick on car-trips and taught me how to swim. My way of dealing with it was to forget my childhood for the next 15 years. The loss is not of a future, it’s of a PERSON. The loss never goes away, at least it hasn’t for me. Thank you for caring enough to open us up to the questions.
🕯️🕯️🕯️
In this episode, the fabric choice of the suit is STUNNING
Very much agree!! Great color!
Jennifer’s argument during trial that she was a helicopter parent was ridiculous. A helicopter parent would’ve been very aware of where her son was mentally. 🙄
She thought helicopter parent meant one who was always flying away really fast. Simple mistake.
So helicopter parents are mind readers???
@@SilentThundersnow omg ok I laughed more than I should have at this 😂😂
@@SilentThundersnow,
Lol!
@@JohnDoe-qz1ql no that’s silly. Here’s a definition: a parent who takes an overprotective or excessive interest in the life of their child or children.
She would have known where he was at mentally. She took zero interest. 🤷♀️
Bruce, you said it perfectly. James Crumbley showed who he really is, a selfish bastard. Both James and Jennifer are horrible people. She had charges for fraud, James had a few dui’s. They were negligent towards their son, james threatened the prosecutor, and now they’re trying to blame the school. Lock them up and throw away the key. 😡
I watched Sins of the Parents this weekend, on Hulu. It takes you inside the prosecutor's offices before and during the trial. It's pretty phenomenal. Bruce's take on this is excellent, because he comes at this from the defense side of the law. The Crumbley's were utterly remorseless regarding their actions. And as I learned from watching the Hulu video, their lives were just a hot mess. This was SO foreseeable and preventable, it's as sickening as it is heartbreaking. I'm glad this precedent now exists, but I sincerely think their 15 yr sentences were not enough.
what a disgusting statement, "it could happen to you", like SHE was the victim of a random crime and not the enabler of a murder. Buying your kid that is IN SCHOOL a gun when we live in an era of school shootings, even if he was 100% mentally stable and had ZERO prior issues is STILL a completely irresponsible, STUPID, and literally deadly decision. Why would ANY parent do that?
@SpydersByte,
There are kids who don't have mental illness and who have the capacity to comprehend and act responsibly.
My father taught me how to safely handle firearms when I was 7 years old. I learned never to open the closet where he secured his sidearms.
We spent time at the gun range - practicing (for me) and perfecting his skill (dad).
I taught my son -- and eventually both my daughters learned from him when they were older and ready to learn.
Dad taught one grandson -- there was another he decided not to teach because the boy was defiant, aggressive, and would not listen.
My point is that a mature, intelligent adult can and should determine whether a child or youth is a good candidate, and is capable of exercising self control.
The Crumblys were unable to evaluate their son objectively.
Their lack of responsible parenting cost their community lives that never, ever should have been at risk.
They failed their son and failed their social obligations.
I think they earned the jail time.
Hopefully they overcome their immaturity and accept their responsibility.
Kids in most European countries, even the UK, can have firearms in their teens. However, they still have to go through robust assessment before getting a licence and must always be supervised by their parents. Plus, because European countries are sensible, you have to store all firearms securely at home, separate from ammunition, and you cannot carry them in public for self defence. It's not people owning guns in the USA that's the problem, it's the lack of any mandatory sefe storage and the ability to carry them in public and use them for self-defence. That's the core difference between the USA and sensible countries.
@@DaibhidhBhoAlbait is wonderful to have these rights here, perhaps in the poorer and less free country that you’re from you do things differently, it doesn’t mean that it’s the only way.
@@gobblegoblin wow what a great guess, Ive lived in Pennsylvania all my life. Maybe dont make stupid assumptions with zero facts to base them off of.
@@gobblegoblinYou seen America's debt lately bubba? Enjoy your 'rights' at the expense of school kids. We decided we value children more than our right to bare arms. Guns were largely banned in the UK after a school shooting and now we dont have any school shootings. Our children have the right to go to school without fear of being shot. Your children dont have that right.
The cost of boarding their horses would have covered therapy for their kid.
Not to mention the high cost of feed
And you do what with the horses? You seem to think one sentient being is more important than another sentient being they aren’t!
@@23centsolution Believing a horse and a person are equal is upon you. Good grief.
@@MrBubba311 if you believe that a sentient being is different from a sentient being than there’s no helping you!
@@23centsolution don't be dense. They would sell the horse to someone else who can care for it and they can care for their son
The school didn’t tell me this. The school didn’t tell me that. Did you tell the school you had firearms in your home? Even after he drew an identical one on a paper?These parents are despicable.
Unfortunately too many parents these days expect the school system to raise their children for them. That’s clearly the case here, but of course even so much as following the schools advice was too much effort for them
They should have MADE her remove him from school!
Because depictions of guns aren’t everywhere?? Look , you do you- but I will NOT sit here and entertain the idea that a parent should not educate their child. Guns? YES! EDUCATE YOUR KID. If you do not know, get educated. Cursing, sex, guns, violence… ad freaking nausium. EDUCATE. “Censoring” and shhh we don’t talk about it… is where this all came from.
Fact. Kids had guns at school, in their vehicles. NO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS! Until we said “gun free zone”. And “guns bad” and “don’t talk to or educate the kids about guns” Then… oh look… school shootings started.
Make a target and people WILL aim.
Twin towers ring a bell?
Just because you made a “safe space” does not mean the bear respects it.
But he drew it in CRAYON!!
@@cruisinguy6024it blame religion AND the internet fusing to be Religternet/Interligion… 😂 ppl raise on a book and ppl raised raised online.. what’s the difference? well it amplifies effects when both are combined… before I get up set about me roasting religion.. I’m
speaking of it as a system not individual believers.. example we all know of the culture where some ppl say “boys will be boys” and this blame the girls for dressing certain ways or being out at nite etc.. this is an example of not taking responsibility of ur own actions.. well internet for many the same where they can shift responsibility.. now again imagine a person who doing nothing.. 😂 pre internet we only had the shifting of responsibility from religious ppl.. now it’s worse cause internet further enables ppl to have that excuse.. obviously it can be either or but it’s also both for many.. WHY that is is important as well as HOW it’s become more increasingly a problem 🤔 I think 90s/early 2000s kids where they last gen in America to actually have a childhood and early teens PRE INTERNET IN EVERY HOME.. family computer days we had ONE PC… and dad and mom got in it all the time.. ppl took turns.. dad saw the search history and spanked us or etc.. NOT GENS AFTER.. everyone had pcs then smart phones.. parents don’t know wtf kids are doing and kids know how to bypass locks and shit.. 😂
The thing that makes this case so unique is 1) The clear presence of their sons mental health problems. Enhanced by the fact their son even was saying he needed help. 2) they paved the road for everything to happen that did by buying and not restricting access to the gun. If your kid kills someone in a DUI that doesn't automatically implicate you. IF your 16 year old kid is constantly drunk and he tells you he's driving to a party and gonna get wrecked and you do nothing to make sure he isn't driving, then yeah it's on you.
Grace, forgiveness, so powerful. I actually felt bad for Ethan. After all this, Jennifer is actually a pitiful person lacking remorse or responsibility. It's everyone else's fault.
Exactly, if they had gotten him help he could’ve had a fulfilling life and no one else’s child had to die. honestly, I don’t even think he actually might’ve had mental health issues. To me it seems like he just wanted some time and attention with his parents. The only time and attention that he got was surrounding the gun. As the child of someone who didn’t have the worst mom but didn’t didn’t have the most attentive or involve mom, between 13 to 15 I did things to try and push the envelope to get her attention. I didn’t know that’s what I was doing as a child, but even a few years after that I could recognize oh I just wanted to see my mom sometimes after work, instead of her going to hang out with her friends at the bar.
Fun fact: there was an uptick in gun locks in Oakland County after the verdict.
Good. About time. Let's bring back accountability.
Wow that’s awesome. If this helped just ONE person, these people’s prison sentences are worth it.. The verdict WAS just.
Fun fact: Not in black homes.
@@randychase305 are they the ones shooting up schools?
Lol
The school brought them in and asked them to take their kid home and they refused. She claims the school didn’t tell her, but when they did they ignored them
She did stand up and say as to conclude the meeting, "Are we done?"
Yrs ago, I went to my mom, told her I felt like I was going crazy. I kept Ruminating on the words *"You're a burden! You're just such a burden! When Penelope goes, you should too... you're nothing but a burden"*
Anytime there was silence, that's all I heard on a continuous loop in my head, all day- every day for a few weeks. My head was telling me that when my bulldog passed, I should just be 'done' too.
My mom unmuted the episode of dateline when the commercial was over and finished watching for the following 43 minutes until it was done; as I literally laid on the kitchen floor in a crumpled pile, bawling & hyperventilating, not knowing why my brain wanted me to just be done.
Sadly, that was Penelope's MIGHTY SOUL that eclipsed the Sun on her way to Heaven last Monday 😢 but she helped get her Mommy to a much better & safer space before she had to go!
I'm crushed but overall I'm
doing better than I anticipated; especially looking back to THOSE days.
I don't know how my mom could've sat there watching some random show on some random woman who was ended by her random husband in some random way while I was fighting a battle of life & death btwn my head and my heart 🤷🏻♀️
Bruce somehow gives both lawyer and dad vibes. It’s comforting. 😂
I was the evil stepmother to my husbands young boys, and I ALWAYS knew what was going on in their lives. Now they are great husbands and fathers and in their 40’s! I am so proud of them!!!
Good for you mom! It is often
extremely difficult being a
stepparent 👍👍👍
Good for you for stepping into a difficult role. My stepmother, whom I met when I was 11, played a huge role in the man I am today. I'm 51 now, and I still learn things from her.
I had a truly "evil stepmother" - I was my father's proxy (theirs was a childless and loveless marriage) and my stepmother's punching bag. The mental injuries that were inflicted on me still leave scars throughout my adult life.,
Jennifer wanted to live in her attorney's side house on Probation/house arrest, and James wanted time served these are some of the worst parents in America. And that's something to take in after being the first parents to be served based on a child's actions throw them both under the jail, especially after James threats towards the judge. They learned nothing after this case.
That's some Casey Anthony type shit right there
I think there was an argument that the guest house was nicer than Jennifer’s house, so how is an upgrade a punishment?
"Jennifer wanted to live in her attorney's house on Probation/house arrest" - i don't know hat she looks like yet, was her lawyer praying that she got it or not? Remember when that chick from FL who killed her todler did the same thing. Sly dog... Edit.... Just peeked. Never mind. Edit: Casey Anthony
@@jasonbender2459 do what?
@@kristinn3367 she "learned her lesson from being in jail and in handcuffs" I'm assuming
Bruce, remember the female cop in Dallas that entered the wrong apartment and killed an innocent man sitting in his apartment ?In Court, the mans brother hugged the Female Cop ,who made the most horrific mistake in killing his brother, asked the judge if he could hug the devastated woman and offer forgiveness to her......A moment I will never forget.....a stunning forgiving moment of grace.....The most powerful act I've ever seen.....
I've been waiting for this video to drop, thanks for the insight into this case!
Watching Bruce vacillate between outraged defense attorney and empathetic human being is extremely entertaining
Yeah, even if he's brash and profane, he's a good guy.
They aren’t mutually exclusive sometimes 😂
Young kids let alone teens and young adults simply can’t control their emotions at the best of times. Gun and emotions don’t mix 🙈
Bruce and Michael, you should do an AMA video where you answer viewer questions. If you do one, can you please talk about what it's like for clients who turn up to court knowing they will likely be immediately arrested? What preparations are they or you making? What happens to their apartments, jobs, dogs etc?
I'm curious about that as well
Thank you so much for breaking complicated matters into simple pieces. You and Michael are so lovely ❤
I have to disagree with you Bruce. These parents obtained a firearm under false pretenses. It would be one thing if the father purchased this for himself and was careless about leaving it unlocked and accessible, but he bought this gun for his underage son who, legally, could not own it. That's a crime. The mother knew about this and instead of trying to return the gun or turning an illegally purchased gun over to the police or taking it and locking it up until the son could legally own it was her crime. They were both complicit in the murders of those teens and they deserve what they got.
I hope they have a hard time in prison.
I haven't watched the entire video but Bruce seems all for them being found guilty.
@@nextbizzyI think the person is referring to Bruce’s statement at 33:56
So what crime did the mom commit? Not reporting a crime is not a crime
@@CapedBojjiactually in some cases it is, it makes you an accomplice after the fact
How the judge didn't give them the max sentence or go beyond the max even after the father is recorded threatening the prosecutor is beyond me.
Michigan sentencing guidelines give them time off for a lack of criminal record. She doesn't have much room to deviate but she still gave them up to 15 years which is the maximum.
Love your videos Bruce, keep 'em coming!
That guy hugging the convict “grace” was the best word👍🏻👍🏻 I have restless legs and it uses a lot of energy trying to stop them. And this guy forgives him😳This grace is a level all humans should strive to achieve. Years of martial arts and I could never develop a true calm like that. Years of training.
Michael Rivers gettin some screen time in there 🎉
My eyes support that.
@@mariee.5912I swear I watched the whole video and didn't see him 😭 do you have the timestamp? I've legit been looking!
🔥🔥
@Vegas_Mel what's the time stamp? 😭😅
He’s da content genius.
I feel like its a minimization to say they "just" bought the gun and ammo. They literally ignored their mentally troubled son to the point where he flat out said "hey i need help, im crazy, i see demons" and they treated it like "oh haha kids are so quirky". They're complete garbage people and parents. They ignored their son AS WELL as bought the gun and the ammo he used for his crimes when he eventually snapped. If they had been actual parents who know how things would have turned out differently?
That's not a crime... they aren't legally required to get their son mental health
Why didn't the school check his bag if there were all those signs, why did they not leave security
Exactly!!!!
@@CapedBojjiuh, yes they are. To ignore obvious signs of illness in one’s child is called NEGLECT.
@@CapedBojjiGTFOH.
No one said anything about legally. But as *@Victoria has already schooled you, they ARE legally, morally required to care for him.
How novel to blame everyone except yourself, accountability be damned. They get a solid "F" for parenting.
We need more grace. Grace and understanding and love... trumps everything. Thank you for this message.
more parents need to be held accountable..................glad LE charged them.............all the signs were there and they did NOTHING.
They didn't even do nothing, they bought him the gun that ended up being the tool he used to kill multiple people
My friend and I both come here, to experience how a loving father treats his kid. Anyone else?
Yes
Honestly? Yeah that's part of the attraction
Thanks for covering this!
I absolutely love your videos. I learn so much from them! I hope you continue for a long, long time. The frosting on the cake is the fact that this is a father son operation. You can tell how much you two enjoy spending time together. We need more of this. ❤
The boy even confided to his parents that he needed help.
Hannah Gutierrez rolled her eyes during the Judge's rendering of the sentence... even struck up a convo with the paralegal ... 🙄
That was wild. Like, girl, the judge is right there looking at you.
Had it not been the maximum, might have been after that performance.
Another person who ruined any chance of a lesser sentence via recorded jail calls… I’d love to see Bruce’s reaction to that sentencing
In EMS there is something known as" pertinent negatives". The things you don't see, the things that are missing from a picture that bear on the situation.
In this case, the things the parents didn't do in response to multiple signs that their son was in the midst of a mental health crisis make them culpable especially paired with their deliberate purchase of a deadly weapon for him and failure to follow common safety protocols for firearms in the home. The thing I can't forget about this mother is her laughing counsel to her son that he has "to learn not to get caught". Who teaches that to their kid???
Liars, scammers, negligent parents do that.
Always great analysis of this case. You always give us insight into the law
Great video as always. I "Heard" that their son tried to speak to his dad about having problems-well prior to the disaster. In addition, I "Heard his father told him to "Suck it up". - This case is probably one of the most unusual nightmares in recent years.
Parents should be held legally responsible for their kids criminal behavior. Violent crimes have increased from 10-18 year olds. Juvenile laws need to reflect that.
Lord there’s an active AMBER alert for a 13 yr old and her 5 year old sibling in my state, right now. Reading the social media comments are devastating. “Allegedly” the 13 year old kidnapped her 5 yr old little brother and drove off in mom’s SUV. Last seen at 9pm last night…..but the amber alert didn’t go out until 2 today. The “adults” in the situation are busy hurling threats at one another in very, very painfully hard to understand broken “hood” speak. Multiple family members have made posts and I quote “don’t be comin at me wit no questions!”. When quite literally 2 children are missing (the vehicle has since been found) but they can’t pull their heads out of their rear ends to even focus on….idk….the KIDS?!? What 13 yr old rebellious teen “allegedly” is taking off for a joyride with a 5 year old in tow?!? Other family members are bragging about how they used to be stealing cars at 10 and could drive as if that’s something to be proud of?!?!!
Smh. I hope the children are found safe and I hope a thorough investigation and/or charges are brought against the “parents”. It just hurts my soul for kids who have selfish, grown adults still acting like they are missing out on partying or whatever when their focus should be on their babies. I can’t relate and will never
I'll agree with you if you apply it to all races.
@stingcool9455 Shes literally the first parent to be held directly responsible for a school shooting carried out by their child. We cant infer anything from that.
If you’re not taking care of your kids they remove them from you as punishment. So yes, you are responsible for everything they do.
No. Some kids fall into crime no matter how good the parents are. People should just be held responsible for their own actions. These parents weren't found guilty of manslaughter because their kid committed murder. They were found guilty of manslaughter because their recklessness and negligence resulted in those deaths. There is a difference between "being unsuccessful as a parent" and "being reckless as a parent."
Thank you Bruce and Michael.
Again, well done Bruce. Excellent coverage.
If you watch enough true crime, there are parents that don't want or love their child. I wonder what precedent this may set for other parents to be held responsible for the actions of their child. I'm sorry, I hold no grace towards these parents.
I might have grace if they show remorse and accept responsibility. I would like to see a public apology and them taking responsibility plus warning other parents to not be as negligent as they were.
Attention must be paid.
How tf do you see a drawing of him using the gun they knew they bought him and leave him there, back pack unchecked. I hope the parents of the victims sue the school too.
They weren't able to because of Michigan law that states the school district has government immunity protection. The families of victims are looking into investing further and looking into suing specific administrators that failed to prevent the shooting.
@taramcgavan7654 I agree, and I feel that these parents were definitely right to be prosecuted for negligence. The school might not legally be responsible, especially since the parents kept a lot of important information from teachers and admin that would help them better identify the situation. I can see wanting more visibility in schools and awareness, but schools should not be held responsible for a parent's unwillingness to parent. It feels like a violation/overstepping of rights.
Thanks for ur perspective!
40 years ago I was a young military commander with huge responsibility. At that tender age the equivalent I would say is being a parent. It comes with huge responsibility even more so. In my view these parents need to spend a long time in prison to reflect on their lack of responsibility.
No update on Grandma Rivers? I'm dissapointed Bruce!! Lol!! Another great video!! 😎🤘🇺🇸
She’s a menace.
@@Cbart23 Lol!! ♥️♥️♥️♥️
My daughter has had issues since birth. I wont go into it all but when she hit her teens, she got REALLY depressed. She is an artist and would reveal her pain through her drawings and words. After i heard her cry FOR HOURS in the shower, i called every brain doctor from our town to the capital, the whole east side of our state. They ALL said "we dont treat teenagers." Im not joking. Talk about heart crushing. We had to hide all the knives and scissors. I had to adjust my work schedule to be there for her begore and after school. Eventually i quit my job. She moved out and had a good first year then it crumbled. She hates me bc i didnt do enough. My husband constantly reassures me i did my best with what i had.
What was she expecting you to do? It's a hard era to be a parent. I'm sorry you had to experience this, and I'm sorry that she isn't coping, I'm sure you did your best if it weighs on you so heavily. God bless you and your family Carla, I mean it. (From a fellow parent)
@@Neer-yy5nm thanks. She talks to her dad, my husband. I suggested next time she starts ranting, for him to ask her, "what could/should have been done for you to have had a good childhood?" Not for me to fix, just to get her to think.
I just want to thank you, Sir. I’m going through a rough round of chemo. Your reactions are a Godsend. You take me out of my own head, and that’s exactly what I need right now. Thanks again.
🌹 Stay strong.
I absolutely ADORE how much you LOVE your son!!! ❤🎉
Love yours and Michael's stuff, Rob from Wales.
"In a world of hate, we need more grace." AMEN, Bruce! ❤❤❤
To be clear, taking your kid to a shooting range under supervision is totally different to handing them a gun or having a gun in your house readily available to them are two different things altogether.
I’m Australian, we have gun control. That doesn’t mean all guns are banned like a lot of yanks say. It means they’re regulated, licensed and checked on by police randomly for safe storage.
The parents went to the school that morning. They should have taken him home….but they went back to work… The mother texted I am not mad..just sorry you got caught …you have to learn to be more careful…after the school saw his drawings. …this was so something that should never have happened..
If my mother had provided the extremely troubled child that I was a gun .. lord I don't know if I'd be here today.
She wouldn't let my grandfather give me a .22 until I was 18
I'm forever grateful my mother didn't give me the tools to act on my extreme emotions and hyper narrow world view.
Thank you sir, I love your videos! ❤from Canada 🇨🇦
Your channel has been getting better and better. Your honest view point and compassion paired with the law is exceptionally wonderful. Thanks.
Thank for showing Michael. He is a handsome young man.
I hope this becomes a norm. Parents ignoring these kind of signs and not only that but providing their kids with GUNS should be held accountable.
Honestly I think had they not provided the gun they probably never would have been charged with anything. To me that's the most egregious part and why they are being made an example of.
No kid should be given a gun JUST BECAUSE HE WANTS ONE.
"Wait 'til you're of age, get a job, and buy your own."
Thanks for doing this one. Such a lesson.
I love y’all so very much life has been so hard n literally y’all give me time to learn n relax n laugh , cry, and now my son watches y’all which makes him thank me for being a loving old school mom who teaches him right . Tyyy for giving my son and I something new to watch and something that makes him see why I’ve taught him things and protected him at times
I just gave birth. I am so sorry to the mommies and daddies. My heart is broken with you.
Congratulations mama💐.
Damn Bruce, that’s a nice suit!
Topochikooooo...wait. wrong channel.
Love that color.
Agree!
Yes, it’s lovely. Perfect for spring, and well-tailored. 👍
Another good case analysis 👍! Bruce, looking sharp in the blue suit /tie! Thanks to you too Michael
The jailhouse phone calls are the ultimate self-snitching!!!!!!! 😱
I'm glad you guys included the footage of the Father who Forgave the Defendant & Hugged Him. That was one of the most emotionally moving things I've ever seen.
Me, too. I've seen it several times and it's something that makes me cry every time.
No, it really wasn't appropriate for this case at all. Neither of the crumbleys would have appreciated it. They are so self absorbed that they would have just taken it as further proof that they did nothing wrong. Now, if the son hugged his parents and forgave them, that might be interesting, but neither parent would appreciate that either.
@@bel3133
I think you're right about this. The Crumbley's woukd take as vindication of hiw "unfairly" they were treated. Too self-absorbed to understand.
Really? Hugging the defendant, which one? Seems like that father has gone off the bonkers. What in the world would make him do that? The notion of insanity comes to mind. Glad i didn't see it, so I don't have to try un-seeing it.
@@bel3133 I wasn't talking about the crumbleys or their kid. I was talking about the old clip from a different case where a guy who lost his son showed compassion and forgave the killer when no one expected him to.
I wasn't saying that anyone should do that to the crumbleys or their kid though lol I just liked that old clip
The straw purchase was already a felony even if he didn't use it in a crime. The fact that he actually used it to kill people just adds to their culpability. AND they knew that he was having mental health issues. He showed every sign of someone who may hurt themselves or others, even had meetings with the school about it. It's insane.
If they were not convicted on these charges, I am sure that Federal straw purchase charges were coming down the line.
They still could be coming...
@@unknown-um3lq Pretty much.
A straw purchase is for someone prohibited from owning a firearm. A parent may buy a child a firearm for activities such as target shooting, but must secure it outside the various allowed activities (18 U.S.C. 922(x)). This is not a straw purchasing issue.
@@no-sway3709 I hear ya. But it also applies to someone purchasing a firearm for someone who is underage as in this case. In MD you have to have an HQL to purchase a handgun even if you're over 21. I don't agree with Maryland's HQL requirement but that's the law we're dealing with at the moment.
I have been waiting for you to react to this one.
Thanks for the clean version
Thanks Bruce for another awesome video
I always enjoy your opinions of criminals, trials and the law!🎉
As a European I just can't understand why one would buy a gun for a kid, especially one that has mental difficulties.
It's sad that someone had to loose his life in this case.
Thanks for all you do Bruce, y seem like a really nice guy
Parenting with diligence is so important. My husband and I decided none of our boys would be allowed to have a pocket knife until we were sure they had enough self control to NOT use it as a weapon. We evaluated them. We watched them. We had constant connection with them. That’s what was missing in this young man’s life.Proper parenting takes focus and commitment. Lazy parenting can have awful consequences
It's a cruel irony that some people who would make great parents have fertility issues and some people who should never be parents are baby factories.