TFS: How to Narrow a Ford 8.8 Part 2 - Cut & Weld
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- The Ford 8.8 is quite possibly the most DIY friendly rear axles out there. You can find them everywhere in dozens of options and forms, and thy are cheap to mod and replace parts on. In this episode, Justin is narrowing one.
Part 2 is all about cutting the left side tube off and welding it back on.
Part 1 is here:
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I've done a lot of 9 in Ford rears both narrowing and installing floater spindles. You nailed it with your methods of measurement and locating where you need to cut/weld. Really the only place where our methods differ is instead of cutting the tubs with a whizz wheel is I use a pipe cutter and instead of a tape measure I use a 3 ft. vernier caliper. Since most of your listeners will probably only do this one or two times in their lives , renting these tools is more practical than buying .The pipe cutter doesn't start cutting until you are happy with your location , makes a square cut , makes no dust or a lot of chips and when the cut is finished the weld bevel is already there.
That C-channel jig is brilliant!
simple but smart wasn't it
Putting a lot of confidence in the trueness of that c-channel. Still, that’s a good rig. I like your welds...
@@Mr572u Hey, as long as the tape measure backs it up lol
That’s exactly the way I’ve always done it. One difference is I picked up a 6” pipe cutter. Perfect cut every time and I get a slight bevel for the weld. I also used old tube pieces for the clamps and a 6 foot threaded rod through the housing to keep it straight.
Damned good set of videos, you cover the process really well. I was curious as to how you were going to align the two cut tubes and, as said by others, a brilliant idea. I appreciate the fact that you know that we all don't have the funds to buy the latest and greatest tools for doing the job and it's this fact that makes your videos both valuable and entertaining. Thanks Justin.
You may be on to something. A large pipe cutter would cut it no problem. Some pipe is 3/8" wall or more on extra heavy but more people have access to an angle grinder.
O.K. . . so I'm late to the party by a few years. . . This set of 2 videos has provided more know-how and hands-on techniques than a plethora of other videos I've watched over the last few days on narrowing a rear end. I'm going to attempt your instructions to narrow the housing of a 1972 A body 7 1/4 Rear End. Yes, the axles will need to be cut to length but I'll take them to a machine shop as I don't have precise machining capabilities to re-cut the splines. Excellent technique and narration. Congrats from the heart!
I read a lot of the remarks below. I too have spent 52 working on car, trucks, and all type of machine. Yes I could point out things that I though could be do differently, but, it's my opinion you did a very good job of explaining the how's and why's! Your welding was good. The tensile strength of 309 SS rod is more than enough for this application. Nice job, take care.
Randall Summers yep the key word you said is “more than enough”? I’ve done a lot of welding repairs on truck frames, more then enough is not better
That was one of the best axle videos I've EVER seen. Well done. Will be watching more of your videos. Even liked your tig habits. So many people are NOT welders. Again well done. Very informative.
Watching this, I’m glad I’ve grown up in the metric system in Australia, Im at a age where they introduced it in my first year of school.
As I’m working on a lot of USA cars, my metric/imperial calculator gets a good workout. Nice job, I fitted one of these to my 67 mustang, but left it standard length.
mm rock.
Awesome video! I'm putting an 8.8 from an Explorer (4:10 limited slip with disc brakes) under my 1936 Chevy pickup and narrowing it as in this video will give me the perfect track width. I consider myself to be a fairly skilled fabricator but one of my mentors told me many years ago "when you stop learning you start forgetting" so I really enjoy watching videos like this. Thanks!
I had so many "How are you going to make sure that " moments and you addressed each one! Nice, great content!
Toledo Pipe H6S 4"-6" Heavy Duty Hinged Pipe Cutter US $129.99.
Small investment, perfect, clean cut to the mm every time.
And it can cut an axle that clean?
plus a nice 45 degree edge perfect... for welding
@@daltonisrael9588 it'll do the housing, you'd want to do the actual axles in a lathe anyway.
@@MrRotaryrockets 37.5 degrees is proper pipe bevel angle! 45 is too laid back!
@@bulldog45k correct
I can't believe some of the comments about uncentering the 8.8 obviously some people just can't PAY ATTENTION. Great informative 2 videos
I'll be honest - I never thought it would be that confusing. I would have shown in greater detail that it was never centered from the factory if I knew haha.
Great vid! I don't know anything about anything, but I'd sleve the joint to add some strength. That way you're not completely depending on your weld strength, and it'll help you keep things lined up.
or two near half sleeve plates to make getting it on easier. I'm also not a good welder, so I'd just do it as insurance for the joint.
I thought the same thing maybe add a collar. But if it is tried and true and strong enough it's good. Adding a coller is also 3 points of weld and 3 break points though. Who Knows except for time tested
As was some previous comments and suggestions, I preheated the housing prior to welding. Also as a guide to indicate deflection, I inserted the axle into the housing. By sliding the axle in and out of the center section and seating it into the outer bearing, you can feel any binding caused by welding deflection. When narrowing mine, the axle on the shortened side actually slid more freely, than the factory side. Worked as good as a $600 alignment kit, for one or two rear ends.
Awesome, I’ve had one of these sitting in my garage for a couple years now, you showed me exactly what I needed to do, and I don’t have to buy an alignment bar. Thanks!!
I have no intentions of narrowing a Ford rear end but I needed to watch this video. Thanks for the info.
Same. Lol
the 8.8 is okay for racing, but everyone I know uses the 9". Setting up a removable chunk is easier than removing the entire housing. I also agree with using the mittler tool is more accurate. But, you got your point across. GOOD JOB!!
No doubt 9" is great man, but Try getting a Ford 9 in with two right side axels for 100-250... Can't beat 8.8 for the money
There's an easier way to find the center measurement of the sway bar. If you measure from the outside edge of one tab to the INSIDE edge of the other that will give you the center to center measurement.
This is by far the easiest video to follow I've seen for this process. Poured a lot of hours into research and thought into the project, nice to find this before putting wheel to the tube. Thx!
Honestly a 10/10 video on how to narrow all axles Great job.
I agree a big pipe cutter works great and straight .
I will never do this, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching you work, and listening to your quality tradesman words of wisdom - thanks for sharing!! Cheers.
There was a couple of points in this video he said some stuff that sounded wrong but I watch part 1 and 2 fully and I give it to the man. He is a true fabricator. Real fabricators are picky and may measure a dozens times to make sure somethings right before they "all-weld" it up. I appriciate that. And that time in the 1st video portion of this when he took time to clean his work space for continuing I definitely I repeat DEFINITELY relate to. I'm OCD as a person in general and I've always believed that the best fabricators are ocd. Because just close enough ain't good enought. If it ain't perfect why waste ur time.. love it love the work and the precision I commend u my brother
I used this video to widen the Explorer 8.8. Same principles applied, but added a section of tube and used 2 long side axle shafts. Thanks for the inspiration.
Did u do this for a new edge mustang? I believe my stock rear end is also 20.25” on each side...
@@obran003 For a Jeep project.
Thank you for this great video. I was going to pay like $1200 for someone to do this for me but after watching you, I feel I can do this with the help of a buddy who is a skilled welder.
Actually, you should have a very slight gap in order to get 100% penetration of the weld. Tube and pipe welds should always have 100% penetration. If you are trying to fuse the root pass you may or may not get that penetration.
Problem with that is it gives it a chance to shrink. No gap can still shrink but you at least have the Edge of the tubes touching to help ensure your dims
You are a great teacher, talking to us not down to or at us. Thanks again!
Again before i forget, tge vudeos are always top notch, the workmanship as well. Thanks again.
Good job with your "alingment" jig and as usual very good welding. One possible tip may be to use a chop saw on the tubes as you can align them perfectly.
Chop saws are misaligned a tad, nothing beats a straight edge
Good work . Very well presented . Some very good advice for anybody doing fab work in general ,not just an 8.8 . Thanks for sharing.
Ive taken the cut off and slid it inside after I "C" cut it , It aligns perfect ,strengthens the seam and gives you a backer to weld against.
How do you get the cut off out after its welded?
Where you been all my life!?! Lol Cant wait to share your channel with my Pops. He's 76 now and doesn't get to do as much anymore. He will love this. We used to do a lot of this together when I was growing up, and I just know he will enjoy pointing out all your "mistakes"! Lmao!!! Great series guys! Thank you.
Great video. You need a porta band tho. Best 300 bucks you’ll spend. Cut off wheels get old. ...take it from a pipe fitter welder of 15 years. Also, grab a 10 dollar pipe wrap and some soap stone. Then you won’t need to mess with tape and markers.
When you are marking the tube i used a plumbers pipe cutter to give me a straight line like a lathe will give you.
Hi Justin. Thanks for the good video. A few comments if I may. 45 years in industry has taught me that work related damage to your body may be subtle, but cumulative. We enjoy your video and want to see more for a long time to come. Take care of yourself Man. Use PPE: Skull cap, face shield, ear protection, dust mask, leather gloves....
Your method to shorten this axle is sound and completely adequate.As long as you V the joint surfaces deep enough, the filler rod puddle will penetrate to the inside diameter of the tubes. The er70 rod is actually stronger than the tube metal. Even if a locomotive crashed into the thing, the tube would bend before the welds broke.
The axle splines are designed to be a slip fit. They can actually tolerate a small amount of misalignment . Manufacturers work to specified tolerances, often times to tenths of an inch, rather than thousandths or ten thousandths. Chances are your modified tube is straighter than what the factory built.
As far as bearing life goes, the really critical work would be to disassemble the axle and completely clean the housing and 3rd member parts. Precision bearings do not tolerate ground up metal and sludge very well.
Your new camera operator deserves a raise.
I don't know he didnt catch the smoky and the bandit reference.
Narrowed my rearend this morning using the exact directions. I forgot to make an alignment notch. I can tell you that if you forget there is a factory seam on the inside of the axle tube. I used it to reference making a notch after the fact. The rearend turned out perfect. Exactly 17 3/8" to the outside flange all the way around. I used a 99 Explorer rearend and it had identical specs to the one in the video.
Need an episode about finishing the rest of the rear end, axles, bearings and seals, gears, cover, and brakes please...
I had an 8.8 posi ready to go in my 1960 C10, even redrilled for the 5x5 then I noticed that the drive shaft hit the X bracing and the drive shaft tunnel. Wish I would have seen this before I sold the axle! Oh, well, got a refresher on how to set up a 10 bolt ring/pinion and carrier. Great job!!!! Saving this for later for sure!!
,,,,I'm impressed.....Your video is direct and clearly concise.....I do metal work, and respect your talented style. You would make a great shop instructor.....I'm still not a fine weldor,,,,,You are....I'll check all your videos......Thanks ......
Good job!! I've tubbed somewhere around 100 cars and that's how I've been doing it for years accept I use two pieces of angle with pads welded on it for the clamps. This method works on any rear end with a round tube. Some ford 9" rearends the tubes are not perfectly round and I have a jig tool for doing them.
I like that you were very careful with the measurements, how worried you were about the axle tube not warping but then it looked like you leaned all your body weight on the outside shaft while tack welding the 3rd and 4th tack.
rbspider The 3rd stack was in front of my face. The 4th tack had my body hanging over it. You sure you watched the right video?
This is such an easy way of explaining, thank you so much
Hey man when I did mine I used a cheap tailpipe expander tool with a sheet of copper wrapped around it to completely center my axle tubes cost like 20 bucks total but it was completely true and gave full access and allowed me to weld fully all the way around unimpeded and I left it in for it’s cool down and worked like a dream
How many miles so far, master fabricator? And if you've already done this, done it differently and done it better, why are you here?
DEEREMEYER1 lol wow been 3 years and I was merely sharing a different method or point of view jackass
You really did an excellent job making this vid, great editing, no BS just the facts. Great how-to ideas too. Appreciate the emphasis on quality and craftsmanship. Thanks, I learned something. JD in MO
,,,,yes,,,I feel the same......excellent presentation......
Just one piece of advise from a fabricator with 40 years experience. Leave the convex bead on the weld-do not grind it off flat. That adds a LOT of strength to the weld; more than you think.
Ditto
I agree and to hell with looks,strength is everything on a rod
This would be a great High School shop project. If you can do this as well this guy, then you have learned valuable skills. If your dad or someone gives you a rear axle assembly, and want to build your first hot rod, or truck project, it's great. If you need to purchase a rear from a junkyard, don't. I'd buy a housing from Moser, Strange, or Currie, to your specs. Great video. Thanks for posting.
nice man, i like the way you did that. i've narrowed & sleeved axles before and the way you did it works just fine. i will be doing the same on our F250/100 project. thanks!
Great work
Some great tips and tricks Thanks Justin
Suggestion for the next 1? Or 100? Cut the tube like you did, but do a final prep on the diff side of the tube so you don't have to keep removing the c channel. You then only have to grind and fit the shorter outside part of the tube and you won't be fighting those clamps every damn time you remove a tiny bit of material. Love the vid! I learned a lot!
This is one of the best vid on how to do this thanks attempting to do my own now good skills
my friend built oval track engines and countless street engines, he bought an old lathe to cut/shorten axle housings and drive shafts, Justin is a very good fabricator, I bet he could build a simple lathe just to cut axle housings
If you want center to center on you sway bar brackets you can measure inside to outside and that's your C To C No math needed. Great video!
Man, what a master class in fabrication. Great video!
The whole series was fabulously done, math wizard, lol - you were great, keep them coming.
New Subscriber.....glad to see someone letting cutting wheel pull. Sign of fabricator with experience
I like to put a piece of tube about 4 to 5 inches long inside the housing as a reinforcement sleeve (machined and press fitted) placing the center of the sleeve right where the weld is going to be. Doing this actually helps align axle tubes.
A true craftsman makes the job look simple! Thanks for sharing Justin!
Very nice Job on the rear
Great video Justin
The goal is not just to narrow the housing but to eliminate the c-clips and get larger bearings outboard on the axles. Spend the extra time and money to cut where the tubes taper and install big-bearing housing ends.
Very educational video, cheers! And I agree with you, red sway bar bushings are cooler than black sway bar bushings.
Love your series man! Just getting into TIG myself and actually working on a Ford 8.8 for my El Camino.
mathew shackelford : Hello Mathew. I love watching these videos but I don’t understand why people shorten these axels. What is the advantage of doing this? Thanks. Beobout6
@@Beobout6 It's because they are putting them in different vehicles than what it came from and the pinion isn't "centered on the axle. BY shortening them for their specific application, they are putting the pinion in the center. The original axle was 27" on side and 30 on the other. So, they shorten the long side, get two passenger side axles and boom, they have the same length axle on each side...pinion is where it needs to be.
Great instructive video, Very good teacher. You laid it out nice and methodical. Constant measurements make it a pleasure !
This is a excellent vid, lots of info on technique that we can all use. Shows what a guy can do with minimal jigging.....thanks a lot....
awesome- you do great work and are a good teacher-- thanks for sharing
Perfect timing i am about it do this in 2 weeks
How did it come out
You make the math way harder than it needs to be.. Axle housing width - perch center to center measurement and then ÷ that # by 2.. That number will be from housing end to the center of the perch on each side. Your math list me lol. Great video tho.. I've watched a few times, prepping for one myself.
Nice work thanks for the video.
For finding center.. measure from the left side(or right) of each bolt hole. As long as both holes are the same size.
Vs approximating the center or subtracting brackets.
i cut 3 in out of each side my 9 in ford with a pipe cutter, I rented from home depot, took. about 3 minutes per cut. No grinding, no wheels to change, no mess, one mark for each cut, all cuts perfect and square. My buddies would not listen used a saw and ginder, had a real mess
I would recommend tacking top and bottom as well before quarter welding the axle. Just move your clamps 90 degrees and tack top and bottom. You really need 4 tacks to ensure proper fit.
I would recommend watching the video and not skipping the part where I did what you recommended.
I use angle iron for pipe but c channel is brilliant
Really good video , keep up the longer ones I prefer those, I know they take longer to do and edit , just finished watching the Time Attack rollcage parts 1&2 , really good got some very helpful info, I have the same bender as yours and the info you give explains it some much better than anyone else. so a big thumbs up and keep them comin . Keith from the land down under where we pay way to much for any decent tools..
Keith J Thanks, Keith. We decided to make the jump back to the longer format for the most part. There's still going to be some quick episodes due to production scheduling and content, but it will be a good mix at least.
Fantastic job and great video. As good as your welding skills are (and they are very good) what impressed me most was how you kept the face of the cuts so square using the cutoff wheel. I have nowhere near the experience that you do but the few times I've tried to cut a cylindrical tube with a cutoff wheel and keep the faces square - lets just say some of the cuts haven't been pretty. I'd also recommend keeping the guard on or face protection using the thin wheels as they can come apart pretty easily if you screw up
I acquired a $6800 hospital bill from using a 4"grinder with a 1/16" cutoff wheel with out a guard. It cut my leg 4"long and 1"deep. I have a new found respect for them. I'll use one with a 1/4" grinding wheel with out a guard but not thin cutoff wheels.
Darrell Blanchard. Outch that must of hurt. The injury & the medical bill. Would be a time im glad i live in the uk free health care. But in your case i would have sown myself up & saved 7k. 😀
i know what you're saying i have an 8'' long scar across my chest as a reminder...worst pain i have ever felt
Safety first
No Obamacare?
Mine was $258 and on my index finger. I got lucky and didn't go to the bone as I did have leather gloves on. It was with the only grinder that I didn't have a guard on and I knew I was doing a sketchy cut. Listen to your gut.
Great videos . I love finding these series .
The c channel is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Like the channel deal. Cheaper and easier than an “alignment tool” that probably comes with a bent ass bar. Be cool to check the run out
Good to see you checking your measurements. I work with “Hacks” that have the it’s the “ITS” good enough on everything they touch. Makes me sick.
I agree with you JW,I've been a mechanic/bodyman for almost 50 years and can't stand people who say OH GOOD ENOUGH ,To me it's not gOOd enough if it isn't the best work you can do,if not your just a hack that gives the gOOd mechanics a bad name.I say If your not gonna do it right,than don't do it.I have always put the extra time into my work.I clean and paint anything and everything I work on so anyone will know who did the job.I was called all kinds of crap on the job,BUT after a while all the mechanics to after me and my way of doing things.That was a feather in my cap.Always do your best.
A chop saw with a big enough cutoff disk would slice them tubes nice and straight in one pass. Just use cutting lubrication to keep the stuff cool.
Great video and instruction my friend! Very clear and easy to follow.
Great video i enjoyed watching. I have been doing this type of auto fabrication and restoration for about 40 years. Only thing i would not do is grind down the welds.
But good job fun to watch.
I still prefer the 9 inch.
Great video. I wish this video was out when I was contemplating doing this but I couldn't find anything this good. I may have to look into this again later down the road. You got a new subscriber!!
Wow lots of great information! Being pickey is a good thing when building a part that could kill you or others be watching more from you very good instructor!
Ain't fabrication fun? You make it look easy. Thanks man.
I can say you did a great job. I like the 9 inch Ford rear end for circle track racing so much easier to change gear ratio and dependable as heck. But great job
I know someone who is putting 1,500 hp on a 8.8 Ford Rear End in Drag racing so your not gonna break a 8.8 on a 500 hp Circle Track Car.
The axles won't stand it on an 8.8 Plus change the center section is so much easier with the 9 in the
People are doing a ton of 8.8 hybrid rearends for 4th gen Camaro and Firebird. They combine the axle tubes from the 4th gen diff with the Explorer 8.8 and weld on the Hiltsy Torque Arm mount. You should do one of those builds. It's also very common to narrow that setup 2-3" per side.
You do nice work. I don't agree with all your methods, but they seem to work well for you. Kudos.
Use a chain pipe cutter big one able to cut right through would be best but a light one can be used to grove the axle all the wat around which makes it easier to cut square with the disc.
Hi All I’m from the UK and love your sense of humour I just know if we ever met we would get on and talk for hours about your welding skills, just wanted to say how much I appreciate you going over and over how crucial it is to get the measurements right first time so thanks for the tutorials peace from UK Scoobs.
If it ends up off kilter a bit when you're done, heat the longer side with a torch cherry red and then quench it with a wet towel. That shrinks that side up a bit...
One thing I have found which seems to work a little cleaner on the cut is to use a hand operated pipe cutter, it leaves a much straighter cut and better welding surface. Also for welding the center section to the axle tubes I prefer to us 308 or 309 stainless wire with a mig instead of tig. When welding the axle tubes (butt weld) i like to use .035 mig hard wire. You do not need to use a tig to do tubing work, if you are a good welder you can do a great job with a mig. I have been a certified welder for over 40 years an have a lot of work still on the road.
This guy takes precision to the extreme. 😁
If he did then he would use a REAL narrowing Jig.....not channel steel!
Ive always pulled the ring gear/carrier out then you can measure straight across the rear with ease
Last time I did this I used a Harbor Freight horizontal band saw. Once you square the saw up and get the housing jigged up it literally takes 30 minutes.
when you are done using this method your drive shaft will not be centered in the tunnel ,you should take equal amounts off of each end and cut and respline the axles ,yes it costs more but it will be right . off center drive shaft is dangerous you will cause stress on universal joints !
the explorer rear is already offset. this method actually makes it closer to centered.
Last customer had me turn up sleeves to press into the tube to support join. Couple of rosette welds on either side of join too,guess he did not want it to break! The recutting the spines on the shafts takes longer to do. Have seen shafts that have been cut down and joined quite successfully but not a big fan of doing this.
You could buy two housing ends, cut the tubes to length and weld on the ends and not try to line the tube up again. Doing it that way reduces the amount of warping that WILL occur. Welding the end doesnt warp it, welding the tube will move that summbitch all over the place.
You can go one step further and run 9" ends on it and be able to get rid of the C clips.
Matt B You can only do that if you follow this same procedure in the vid. Each axle tube tapers down on each end which means you still have to shorten one axle tube to achieve an equal length assembly.