60 plus years of the show and all we have to show referencing the Doctor family is less than fourteen minutes? To quote Susan Triad, "Top marks for enigmatic."
Constantine: “Before this war began, I was a father and a grandfather. Now I am neither, but I'm still a doctor.” Ninth Doctor: “Yeah, I know the feeling.”
The Master is his "man crush". No chance he's his brother. Way better to have his brother as a Mycroft Holmes analogue like Brax rather than the Moriarty one.
Uhhh no. I don't think the Master and the Doctor are related and I don't think that was the intention when the Master first appeared. Also, I just hope they aren't at all related, it would make some stuff between them really weird.
@@yospidey0078if not the original intention it definitely was an intention more than once. never actually showed up in anything (i dont think) though so completely disregardable
@@snakeswithwings Good thing the writers didn't actually put it in the show. As someone else already mentioned, The Master was intended to be the Doctor's Moriarty when he was first created not a brother rivalry.
Anyone else confused about the doctor saying he might have kids in the future in the Legend of Ruby Sunday when he’s mentioned his lost children multiple times before 🤔🤔
@@Domihork I really wish they’d pay a bit more attention to basic continuity as I really can’t get invested in a story where stuff just randomly happens and contradicts years of lore, cough, the timeless child”.
I don't know, the phrasing is interesting. He say's he's "been a father" yet 11 seems to deny or at least avoid answering if he had kids... perhaps not biological children at that point?
Classic doctor who continuity 😂 gets worse if you look at the EU. IE, the 8th Doctor meets Susan multiple times and she’s got a kid. I love this show way to much. I don’t rly mind the continuity errors personally bc it makes the theorising more fun. Although I have to admit, Russell is the biggest offender or continuity (or maybe Chibnall? Depends how you look at it)
Confused on why Kate has no idea about Susan being the doctors granddaughter when in the day of the doctor they have an entire File on her on the board in the black archive
I was just about to comment about that!! This must be RTD being a little forgetful as to what other writers have added into their stories over the years. Plus with Susan’s Big Finish adventures being canonical, the Fifteenth Doctor seems to have forgotten about the Eighth Doctor going back to see her and travelling with her for a bit with Lucie Miller. Little annoyed as to there not being a single mention of that.
@@nickpearson871 No Big Finish is explicitly canonical. The closest we ever got was the Eighth Doctor in Night of the Doctor name-dropping a few of his Big Finish companions. So their existence is canon, but nothing else that happens outside of the show proper is for sure canon.
1:49 I like to think he’s talking to Victoria about the family he had prior to being adopted by Tecteun since the memories of his past life were erased. The memory of the Doctor’s real parents lives somewhere deep within him and he has to think really hard to see them again (“they sleep in my mind”).
The question is, who is she? Back then when I watched the episode, I assumed it was the Doctor's mother (now it would be adoptive mother). Of course, it could have also been a sister or grandmother.
The bit at 3:18 where Ten says he “was a dad once” contradicts the bit at 12:03 where 15 says “not yet” to having kids. 🤷🏻♂️ And yet at 11:54, The Doctor says he’s trying to shake off his past enigma which he kinda isn’t as RTD is just making it complicated.
After Fifteens revelation about not having kids yet, was thinking of the Doctors Daughter clip, where 10 explains to Donna that he's been a dad amongst other examples, but I'd forgotten about 13's quote about carrying her family with her in TWWFTE. Great compilation. 👍👍
My interpretation/headcanon of The Doctor saying he was a parent when he hasn't had kids yet is that with Susan having no knowledge of her parents I think there's nothing left but conclude that she was a foundling just like The Doctor and Ruby, meaning that she was pretty much raised entirely by The 1st Doctor. What I'm getting at is that I think The Doctor calls himself a parent because he very much had to act as a surrogate/foster father for Susan. Feels fitting with how a current theme in the new season is how adoptive parents can be just as valid if not more than biological ones. Plus, surprisingly, it doesn't really fully contradict any previos scene. Unless I've missed something, in all of these scenes The Doctor doesn't ever state he has had biological children, he just states he has a family and that he was a parent once. The first thing doesn't necessarily mean having kids (as we know The Doctor had parents, uncles, grandmothers, etc.) and the second one doesn't necessarily mean being a parent to multiple kids. Meaning the idea of him acting as a single foster parent for Susan remains untouched. The only scene shown here that actually contradicts this is Clara saying he has children, but I think it's fine to assume Clara doesn't know The Doctor hasn't had his kids yet. She either assumed this because he told her about Susan or The Doctor did tell her about them but skipped the "haven't met them yet" part (which is pretty in character for The Doctor to not go into detail lol). The one scene I can recall where The Doctor actually states he had kids specifically is missing on this video, which is in 'The Empty Child' when The Doctor tells Constantine he knows the feeling of being both a father and a grandfather. But really this can just be interpreted as The Doctor saying he knows the feeling because he had to act as both a dad and a granddad for Susan. Is The Doctor having kids on his personal future clearly not the original intention? Yeah, but this works less as a retcon and more as a recontextualization of previous scenes and a new piece of knowledge on his family tree.
One thing from the expanded lore I like is that Yaz eventually figured out that the 13th Doctor made up her anecdotes to lighten the mood and keep from having to break from her jovial persona. She brought up many wishy washy stories in series 11, but didn't tell the Fam where she was from until they cornered her at the end of Spy Fall.
For the 20th Anniversary of Doctor Who in 1983, there was a magazine called the "Doctor Who 20th Anniversary Special" published by the BBC. There is a story written by Eric Saward called "Birth of a Renegade" featuring th Fifth Doctor, it's revealed that Susan is actually the Lady Larn, the last living descendant of Rassilon. There was an attempted coup by the Master, taking place at the time, and he wanted to rule through Susan. The Doctor's memory of all the events surrounding the coup were erased, and when he finally left Gallifrey, he found Susan had stowed away in the Tardis and since his memory was wiped, he believed her when she said she was his granddaughter.
4:26 I know it was hinted by RTD that this might be the Doctor’s mother (the mother from the childhood he remembers) but personally I think it’s actually Romana. It says somewhere in the spin-off media that Romana was President of Gallifrey sometime during the Time War before Rassilon was resurrected and took over.
really want it to be romana. to me this is the only answer that makes sense. did leela survive the war? i dont remember from what was shown could be her aswell!
@@LewisDoubleD1 I'm not sure how canon the bluray box set commercials are, but have a search here for 'Leela vs the Time War' you'll have one version of what happened to her.
Most of the fans back on Outpost Gallifrey were solidly in the Romana camp back when it first aired. RTD’s intent was that it was The Doctor’s mother but backed away from explicitly stating it. I think it works better implying it’s Romana seeing that she must’ve been deposed by Rassilon from the Presidency and thus was being made to suffer by him for her defiance.
There's also the scene in "The Beast Below" when 11 is talking about why the little girl is crying. He says "Any parent knows that" and Amy says "Are you a parent?" and he just stares at her uncomfortably for a few seconds.
They blew a golden opportunity by not having Lalla Ward play the mysterious old woman Timelady, instead of some lady playing the Doctor's Mom(?). Imagine seeing Romana about to die!
It’s worse than that Davies himself said that woman is “who ever you want her to be,” meaning she’s a loving version of the writer had no idea what to do with her so made it the fandoms problem to slap a label on her. Or as I learned in creative writing class, lazy writing.
He backed away from stating it’s his mother because so many fans online said it was a stupid idea compared to it being Romana. The production team were heavily reading the posts over at Outpost Gallifrey back then. Moffat even joked about it in “Blink” with the comment about the TARDIS’ windows not being correct as well as making sure the DVD player in use throughout the episode was the Philips DVP-642 that American fans were heavily using to watch the show from Xvid rips grabbed from BitTorrent shortly after it aired in the UK. Back then, the SciFi Channel was showing the previous series so to stay current with the UK fans online in the discussions, that was what many of us did back then. Moffat frequently posted there until he became the show runner.
I've not watched the new series but I like the scenes included here, I had only seen clips of 15 in action. It's nice RTD has these moments of depth too
If you really like the Doctors here please do not watch the Disney season, it is a grevious abomination. Unless you always wanted to see the Doctor as a cypher of an over excited 12 year old girl, running, jumping and screaming....🤦 Except for one episode where he portrays a rampant desperate cottager....🤬
Yeah, like you I haven't watched the new series. I don't have Disney+. I have just seen clips. I also liked the moments of depth in this video, as well. Particularly, when the Doctor talks to Kate.
My theory about the fate of the Doctor's family. Before the beginning of the Great Time Wars some groups of Gallifreyans have convince either the President, the Chancellor or the Vice-President to establish a colony in secret. The main purposes of the colony were focus on the Preservation of Gallfrey history, culture and its people in case both sides were destroyed during the last days of the war. Some of the colonists were members of the Doctor's family. Oddly the Doctor's family had a lot of influence esp. in the establishment of the Colony. Some members of the Doctor's family have stay on Gallifrey. One of whom was a member of the Military. As a result of the Length of the Great Time War, any knowledge of the colony was lost. It is likely all of those who were aware of the colony were among those who died as a result of the war. A reason why the War Doctor had decided to end the Great Time War. One of the Doctor's children was a member of the the Military. This child had sacrifice his or her own life to save the War Doctor. The War Doctor was a very important man to the point where one of his own children had sacrificed their life. Oddly the Doctor was brother by the death of his child. Merely often any parent don't want to lose one of their children before they died. Yet during the Battle of Arcadia, the Doctor had witness the deaths of many children. Being a father, the Doctor had flipped. He had assumed that due to the length of the war, he had lost his entire father. Even briefly due to the pain as a result of seeing many children. the Doctor had briefly forgotten Susan. As a result of witnessing the many deaths of children, the Doctor decided to end the war. Therefore leading to the events of the episode The Day of the Doctor. Note- The Doctor's father did care for his son. One of the Doctor's false memories was a child being abandon by his family. In reality, the Doctor was sent to a children's home by his father. The children's home was a boarding school. Oddly despite the Doctor's father being busy man, he had been able to find time to spent with his son. Oddly as a result of time and the Great Time War, the Doctor has develop a lot of false memories of his family. He is able to recall some true memories of his family.
5:43 . In the episode 'The Legend of Ruby Sunday' Kate Lethbridge Stewart said she didn't know the Doctor had a Granddaughter, yet there is a picture of her in her building! I hope someone got fired for that blunder.
Hardly, they haven't been fired for the lousy writing, storylines and dialogue, plot holes and profound lack of any character development... So why start now?
@@MKR5210”I sure hope somebody got fired for that blunder” while complaining about continuity error is a joke from the Simpsons, spoken by a nitpicky fan. It’s poking fun at people who care about that stuff
I think you may be missing one, but i don't remember exactly how the scene goes. From memory, in the episode with the space whale don't Amy and the Doctor have another conversation where he aludes to having been a father, or where she asks if he has kids? I believe it goes that he sees a crying kid, and he says something about how the child isnt crying for attention because hes crying silently and says that that's something only a parent notices, so then Amy asks if he noticed because he's a parent?
Has anyone expounded on - for or against - the idea that Susan is Jenny's daughter and "First", at some point in the future came to have custody of Susan (perhaps something happened to separate her from Jenny) and that when the story picks up in 1963 all this is in this is in their past? I'm not deeply informed on all the lore that's been established related to his family relations but does that thesis hold any water or no?
Honestly, i am hoping for this outcome because we haven't addressed Jenny his daughter, and in all of his extra years in the show that we did not witness i found it odd he never heard or chanced upon and i would love to have that storyline closed
Is Susan, really the doctor's granddaughter or something completely different if you take her first appearance in The Unearthly Child she acts as if she is hiding something she can't explain to Ian and Barbara at first it's brushed over at the beginning but eventually when Ian and Barbara meet the old man who says that his Susan's grandfather but the odd thing a few years later the doctor remarks " Yes I am Your grandfather Susan". Sort of third person or the doctor means he will be her grandfather referring to remarks in the latest episode. So maybe there is an alternative way to think about this we know the first doctor as the original but is this the wrong way round? Jumping from that to the Sutekh and Mrs Flood and possibly Susan Foreman connected to The Daleks' Invasion Of Earth in the 21st century which still hasn't happened or will it after Sutekh? Alternatively the other is the Silence also may return. And about Jack Hackness mentioned an event related to the fall of Unit 2024. Oddly here's an odd theory about Mrs Flood she's Morgana Le Fye's/Goblin Queen there was a Goblin King so where's the Queen? Fork Lore says both were the same thing and both have a connection to Whoinverse Lore there was a female Trickster as well?
@@Usagi1992 If you like it, that is okay. There are plenty of videos out there explaining the dislike. ex- the terrible writing, inconsistencies with canon, the politization of everything, and the agenda push. People have suggested that there could have been a show made about Romana that true fans would be interested in.
My take on the Fifteenth Doctor's statement of not having had kids "yet" is that he was referring to the part of the family that would eventually generate Susan. Also, the Tenth Doctor only mentioned having been a father in the past, which does not necessarily imply that he had children of his own but that he's merely been a father figure for them. It does coincide and make sense, in a timey wimey manner.
I really, really want Susan to return in the next episode. They've deliberately brought her up and the Doctor's family numerous times this season. It would feel a little disappointing if it didn't have a true payoff.
"I was a dad once" Does this fit with the new idea of him not having had children yet? (I think it's a cool timey wimey idea but wouldn't he say "I will be a dad once" or something. And then "Donna I've been a father before"
But then, Amy: "Doctor, do you have children?" Doctor: "no." Amy: "Have you ever had children?" And then no answer. And 15, in "Devil's Chord": "I did have, I will have... Time Lords are complicated.
its deliberately very ambiguous, it could mean he hasn't met Susan's parents yet but he has had other children, it could mean he's met his child or children but doesn't know who their mother is its just deliberately making The Doctor's family more mysterious and complicated but without saying exactly how
This comment is more for The Doctor than anything else, by writing this I will have sent myself to prison once more, for the first rule of communication is that: He who talks first is necessarily the criminal, for he does not know the rules of that to whom is recieving, that is a part that only comes when the reciever will have listen and had the time to sort everything out, and so however long the return takes, it is by an unfortunate series of events that I am the one basked in fire. There is in this length no amount of words that covers the whole lesson of what there is to go thru, and there is no doubt that they are but things of which you already know, for only if it was the case, then is there in the first place the existence of any a case to consolidate. This is but my peacemaking, the kind of thing one does when they are at their end, this is a consolidation of the fire started in the mind in having been exposed to the craze of idea, being, possibility, to see it frozen in space and time, locked perhaps as a stone, one embedded in this frame work called the net, for however long it will last anyhow. At the end of the day, there is but one mistake that The Doctor's family made, and it was that: A tard may have authority, but it does not have priority. For it is the case that speed is king, no matter how right the tard is, if it will be the case that the tard makes a move and it is against the king, then the checks will come thru like fire. Proper parenting then is to consist of family and friend each competing over the issues of the tard. If the tard deems that it should go there, you have to get there first, if the tard want to eat a snack, you have to see it eaten first, and so there is that competition, without which the tard does not grow properly, but this was nothing new, for if I could type it, then you have already known, and it is for that reason that I may have inherited the information. And what evidence is there to show that this is the case as stated if not for the fact that the tard can travel to any-a-place at all? Is it not so that when it will have arrived, the presence is there? And so has this statement not been already checked true? So then there is only one use for a message that is like this, and it is when you need to be blunt. When you are by yourself again at the lowest low, to tell you that the world was already knowing, only you should have been told, and may this then be a reflection of that. Now rhen if all this is said, the number 2 thing of which there is to point out is the solution that is to be had at hand. There is still the work to do me with my guns, you with your whatever, that is if you will follow me in prison. And at the very end, like all man, one should desire to conquer the world, see an end to the blasted city, desalt the oceans, move them back into the mountains, see the forest rewritten inch by inch, desert returned to desert, which if met then on one hand there is the shutting down of need for calculation, on the other land of keeping calculation fresh, not mixed with so much pain, agony, things of which that no doubt exceeds the tolerance of the kind to handle. So then here, you would've answered your own question, "Why can't you be kind?" If you will not throw in your stone to see these things into fruition, who will?
One more. Curse of Fenric: KATHLEEN: Do you have any family yourself? DOCTOR: I don't know. KATHLEEN: Oh, I'm sorry. It's the war, isn't it? It must be terrible not knowing. DOCTOR: Yes.
Question: In the conclusion of the 'END of Time'...exactly WHO was the elderly Time Lady th Doctor saw? HOW was she related TO him??? Please answer these questions 'cause it's been driving me crazy...and STILL IS..!!!!
To me it's obvious that she should be Susan. In the Big Finish audios, she joined the Time Lords in the Time War, and Rassilon took an intetest in her. Surely she would be by his side at some point. Especially when the Time lOrds travel to Earth, as she has experience with the planet.
9:20 considering Tektuyoung is indicated (but not confirmed) to be later Rasalin is something. Also makes you wonder if there is a connection to Sutehk now with such a similar name. 😂
I'm fairly sure the Timeless Children script mentions Rassilon and Omega separately to Tecteun, in that scene where the three Time Lords walk down the corridor into the light. Implied that those three together were the Founding Fathers.
My personal headcanon from the newest episode is that based off what the doctor says in The Devil's Chord, "I did have, I will have, some future doctor has kids and sends them back to live with the first doctor, so The Doctor is still a dad and has had family but hasn't yet had them.
yeah but don't forget in "twice upon a time" the original doctor himself like his twelth counterpart both decided that they wern't going to regenerate. how would the first doctor have been able to accept that he had kids in the future of his timeline, if he had already chosen not to regenerate?
No this isn’t the case he’s stated he knew his children a few times. “Dad to dad” “I’ve had children before Donna” “I was a dad once” He either means that he used to have kids and will in the future. Or He did have kids but in Kate’s future.
@@flytoinspire well given that the doctor at multiple times believe they are going to die, then I think its safe to assume that him having kids is not a fixed point, somehow, and that the 1st and 12th doctor understood that when it came to refusing to regenerate. Anyway you look at this line it doesn't really make sense unless the Doctor mean that Susan was the person he was a dad for, which I don't like since it erases this presumed family life the first doctor had. Edit: You could also read it as that everytime the doctor gets close to death he just assumes "guess the the kids weren't mine," and then when they inevitadibly live that he just assumes "okay maybe they are mine"
Like this person said though, just because the Doctor hasn't had kids yet doesn't mean he hasn't been a dad. He could have kids in his future, and then raise them in his past. He's still a dad, just in a timey wimey way
Man, The Five Doctors really dropped the ball regarding representing Susan. The doctor went from mistaking others for Susan because he couldn't let go of her to not even batting an eye when she reappeared after nearly a century.
That doctor was at a different point in time. The first doctor had only just left Susan not long in the five doctors, the other doctors, however, already had their moments of grieving with no Susan
Strange how come Kate didn’t know the doctor might have children? In the episode with the zygon and the 3 doctors they clearly show a picture of Susan on the dart board?
I really wonder, are the Doctor's seven grandmothers seven different grandmothers, or just different regenerations of the same grandmother? Because the former would imply some VERY interesting things about Time Lord marriage laws.
There is also the fun 'Demensions in Time' special in 1993, which was the crossover with EastEnders to celebrate the shows 30th Anniversary/Childern in Need special. Canon or not (though this show loves to canonise everything and the Childern In Need stuff often is considered canon) it was awfully fun.
The trouble with Doctor Who is that the stories have all been written by different writers. Good luck to make logical sense of it all. I and most other fans are interested mostly in who plays the Doctor. Some writers and directors are better than some others, of course. It’s still a good show after all the time since 1968 or so. British writers are generally better than most other writers.
So when she says she had 7 grandmothers does that mean new adoptive grans that helped 're raise them or does that count for various generations still being alive. The doctor being in the orphanage doesn't necessarily mean parents are dead just there do their list through time or a battle field or are too irresponsible to raise him directly with having high seated jobs
12 regenerations = 13 lives/incarnations. That was from “The Deadly Assassin” in 1976 and honored by just about every production team since then except for Chibnall. He decided to embrace the “Morbius Doctors” idea about Doctors prior to Hartnell from “The Brain of Morbius”. Even though “The Deadly Assassin” invalidated it. In “The Five Doctors”, it was revealed the High Council can bestow regenerative cycles and offered such to The Master - who had cheated the rule - in exchange for helping The Doctor. And decades later, thanks to Clara, the Time Lords granted The Doctor a new regenerative cycle.
The timless child story was the worst thing to happen in Dr Who. Glad they made some efforts with the Toy Maker to cover it. They should do all they can to completely kill off all ties with that story.
60 plus years of the show and all we have to show referencing the Doctor family is less than fourteen minutes? To quote Susan Triad, "Top marks for enigmatic."
Expanded media definitely show more of the Doctors family, like his brother Irving Braxiatel and great grandson Alex
Constantine: “Before this war began, I was a father and a grandfather. Now I am neither, but I'm still a doctor.”
Ninth Doctor: “Yeah, I know the feeling.”
This is the Empty Child from Series 1 I believe. Great moment.
One of Moffat’s many insights during NewWho about The Doctor’s past.
“Do you have a brother?”
“No, not anymore…”
I personally like to think he was talking about the Master here
No. Is about Irving Braxatiel.
The Master is his "man crush". No chance he's his brother. Way better to have his brother as a Mycroft Holmes analogue like Brax rather than the Moriarty one.
Uhhh no. I don't think the Master and the Doctor are related and I don't think that was the intention when the Master first appeared. Also, I just hope they aren't at all related, it would make some stuff between them really weird.
@@yospidey0078if not the original intention it definitely was an intention more than once. never actually showed up in anything (i dont think) though so completely disregardable
@@snakeswithwings Good thing the writers didn't actually put it in the show. As someone else already mentioned, The Master was intended to be the Doctor's Moriarty when he was first created not a brother rivalry.
That first scene was pretty sad
7:18 AWWW!!! Photos of his granddaughter Susan Foreman and late wife River Song!!!
Anyone else confused about the doctor saying he might have kids in the future in the Legend of Ruby Sunday when he’s mentioned his lost children multiple times before 🤔🤔
yes! thank you!
@@Domihork I really wish they’d pay a bit more attention to basic continuity as I really can’t get invested in a story where stuff just randomly happens and contradicts years of lore, cough, the timeless child”.
He can lose children before he’s had them- and have known them before they’ve been born
I don't know, the phrasing is interesting. He say's he's "been a father" yet 11 seems to deny or at least avoid answering if he had kids... perhaps not biological children at that point?
Classic doctor who continuity 😂 gets worse if you look at the EU. IE, the 8th Doctor meets Susan multiple times and she’s got a kid. I love this show way to much. I don’t rly mind the continuity errors personally bc it makes the theorising more fun. Although I have to admit, Russell is the biggest offender or continuity (or maybe Chibnall? Depends how you look at it)
Confused on why Kate has no idea about Susan being the doctors granddaughter when in the day of the doctor they have an entire
File on her on the board in the black archive
Wait this is so true..and extremely annoying
Perhaps Kate just knew of her as one of the many companions and didn't know they were family
It could be due to the Black Archive's memory-erasing equipment
I was just about to comment about that!! This must be RTD being a little forgetful as to what other writers have added into their stories over the years. Plus with Susan’s Big Finish adventures being canonical, the Fifteenth Doctor seems to have forgotten about the Eighth Doctor going back to see her and travelling with her for a bit with Lucie Miller. Little annoyed as to there not being a single mention of that.
@@nickpearson871 No Big Finish is explicitly canonical. The closest we ever got was the Eighth Doctor in Night of the Doctor name-dropping a few of his Big Finish companions. So their existence is canon, but nothing else that happens outside of the show proper is for sure canon.
1:49 I like to think he’s talking to Victoria about the family he had prior to being adopted by Tecteun since the memories of his past life were erased. The memory of the Doctor’s real parents lives somewhere deep within him and he has to think really hard to see them again (“they sleep in my mind”).
there is also "S. FOREMAN" on the list of names on the wall in class' first episode
4:26 she looks like Techeun, her eyes. Perhaps an early regeneration of Techeun
The question is, who is she? Back then when I watched the episode, I assumed it was the Doctor's mother (now it would be adoptive mother). Of course, it could have also been a sister or grandmother.
@@rainymoon9848Davies has said it was his mother. It wasn’t made clear in the episode so fans could imagine it to be who they wanted
Kate [referring to visiting Susan.] "Personally, I think you bring joy."
Next Christmas Special:
Joy to the World
Confirmed
Grandaughter - Susan
Uncle - Unnamed
Father - Unnamed
Children - Unnamed
Brother - Unnamed
Daughter - Jenny
Sisters - Unnamed
Grandmothers - Unnamed
@joesphchambers2000 the drs brother did appear in big finish and was called Irving Braxiatal
His wife was also mentioned in expanded material as “Patience”
@@p.g89 I'm just basing my info off this video.
@@LyraBones I'm just basing my list off the show.
@@josephchambers2000 fair enough, but if you haven't looked into BF's work then I highly recommend it
P.S he also has a great grandson called Alex
The bit at 3:18 where Ten says he “was a dad once” contradicts the bit at 12:03 where 15 says “not yet” to having kids. 🤷🏻♂️ And yet at 11:54, The Doctor says he’s trying to shake off his past enigma which he kinda isn’t as RTD is just making it complicated.
i imagine a future doctor will have a child/children and bring them back to the first doctor to be raised
If you send a kid back to your past self your past self will be a dad and not have had a kid yet
Welcome to Doctor Who...60 years of "canon" will always contradict itself. TimeyWhimey!
@@TheMess9898 All that time travel can be used to explain the past changing, but also irl keeping track of 60 years of lore is challenging for writers
RTD isn't the first person to make Doctor Who complicated lol. This is a minor detail.
After Fifteens revelation about not having kids yet, was thinking of the Doctors Daughter clip, where 10 explains to Donna that he's been a dad amongst other examples, but I'd forgotten about 13's quote about carrying her family with her in TWWFTE. Great compilation. 👍👍
My interpretation/headcanon of The Doctor saying he was a parent when he hasn't had kids yet is that with Susan having no knowledge of her parents I think there's nothing left but conclude that she was a foundling just like The Doctor and Ruby, meaning that she was pretty much raised entirely by The 1st Doctor.
What I'm getting at is that I think The Doctor calls himself a parent because he very much had to act as a surrogate/foster father for Susan. Feels fitting with how a current theme in the new season is how adoptive parents can be just as valid if not more than biological ones.
Plus, surprisingly, it doesn't really fully contradict any previos scene. Unless I've missed something, in all of these scenes The Doctor doesn't ever state he has had biological children, he just states he has a family and that he was a parent once. The first thing doesn't necessarily mean having kids (as we know The Doctor had parents, uncles, grandmothers, etc.) and the second one doesn't necessarily mean being a parent to multiple kids. Meaning the idea of him acting as a single foster parent for Susan remains untouched.
The only scene shown here that actually contradicts this is Clara saying he has children, but I think it's fine to assume Clara doesn't know The Doctor hasn't had his kids yet. She either assumed this because he told her about Susan or The Doctor did tell her about them but skipped the "haven't met them yet" part (which is pretty in character for The Doctor to not go into detail lol).
The one scene I can recall where The Doctor actually states he had kids specifically is missing on this video, which is in 'The Empty Child' when The Doctor tells Constantine he knows the feeling of being both a father and a grandfather. But really this can just be interpreted as The Doctor saying he knows the feeling because he had to act as both a dad and a granddad for Susan.
Is The Doctor having kids on his personal future clearly not the original intention? Yeah, but this works less as a retcon and more as a recontextualization of previous scenes and a new piece of knowledge on his family tree.
One thing from the expanded lore I like is that Yaz eventually figured out that the 13th Doctor made up her anecdotes to lighten the mood and keep from having to break from her jovial persona. She brought up many wishy washy stories in series 11, but didn't tell the Fam where she was from until they cornered her at the end of Spy Fall.
I've been waiting for someone to make a comprehensive video like this for a long time. Cheers!!!!!!
Gotta love the way all the other doctors except the first doctor CGAF about Susan in the Five Doctors.
That first clip already made me cry, how dare you. First Doctor missing Susan gives me the eye waterfalls :(
For the 20th Anniversary of Doctor Who in 1983, there was a magazine called the "Doctor Who 20th Anniversary Special" published by the BBC. There is a story written by Eric Saward called "Birth of a Renegade" featuring th Fifth Doctor, it's revealed that Susan is actually the Lady Larn, the last living descendant of Rassilon. There was an attempted coup by the Master, taking place at the time, and he wanted to rule through Susan. The Doctor's memory of all the events surrounding the coup were erased, and when he finally left Gallifrey, he found Susan had stowed away in the Tardis and since his memory was wiped, he believed her when she said she was his granddaughter.
This is exactly what I've been wanting, thank you
4:26 I know it was hinted by RTD that this might be the Doctor’s mother (the mother from the childhood he remembers) but personally I think it’s actually Romana. It says somewhere in the spin-off media that Romana was President of Gallifrey sometime during the Time War before Rassilon was resurrected and took over.
really want it to be romana. to me this is the only answer that makes sense. did leela survive the war? i dont remember from what was shown could be her aswell!
@@LewisDoubleD1They'd have used Louise Jameson if they wanted it to be Leela. I doubt a human would be part of that high Galifreyan entourage anyway.
@@LewisDoubleD1 I'm not sure how canon the bluray box set commercials are, but have a search here for 'Leela vs the Time War' you'll have one version of what happened to her.
I've always liked the idea that it was Susan's grandmother myself.
Most of the fans back on Outpost Gallifrey were solidly in the Romana camp back when it first aired. RTD’s intent was that it was The Doctor’s mother but backed away from explicitly stating it. I think it works better implying it’s Romana seeing that she must’ve been deposed by Rassilon from the Presidency and thus was being made to suffer by him for her defiance.
There's also the scene in "The Beast Below" when 11 is talking about why the little girl is crying. He says "Any parent knows that" and Amy says "Are you a parent?" and he just stares at her uncomfortably for a few seconds.
4:42 with timelords, we don’t know if mom was his father, or Susan was just granddaughter or grandson.
Susan can't regenerate so Granddaughter
They blew a golden opportunity by not having Lalla Ward play the mysterious old woman Timelady, instead of some lady playing the Doctor's Mom(?). Imagine seeing Romana about to die!
It’s worse than that Davies himself said that woman is “who ever you want her to be,” meaning she’s a loving version of the writer had no idea what to do with her so made it the fandoms problem to slap a label on her. Or as I learned in creative writing class, lazy writing.
He backed away from stating it’s his mother because so many fans online said it was a stupid idea compared to it being Romana. The production team were heavily reading the posts over at Outpost Gallifrey back then. Moffat even joked about it in “Blink” with the comment about the TARDIS’ windows not being correct as well as making sure the DVD player in use throughout the episode was the Philips DVP-642 that American fans were heavily using to watch the show from Xvid rips grabbed from BitTorrent shortly after it aired in the UK. Back then, the SciFi Channel was showing the previous series so to stay current with the UK fans online in the discussions, that was what many of us did back then. Moffat frequently posted there until he became the show runner.
I feel like you should've added captions for the lost episodes with the awful audio
I've not watched the new series but I like the scenes included here, I had only seen clips of 15 in action. It's nice RTD has these moments of depth too
If you really like the Doctors here please do not watch the Disney season, it is a grevious abomination.
Unless you always wanted to see the Doctor as a cypher of an over excited 12 year old girl, running, jumping and screaming....🤦
Except for one episode where he portrays a rampant desperate cottager....🤬
@@MKR5210 its pretty good after the first two episodes
Yeah, like you I haven't watched the new series. I don't have Disney+. I have just seen clips. I also liked the moments of depth in this video, as well. Particularly, when the Doctor talks to Kate.
My theory about the fate of the Doctor's family. Before the beginning of the Great Time Wars some groups of Gallifreyans have convince either the President, the Chancellor or the Vice-President to establish a colony in secret. The main purposes of the colony were focus on the Preservation of Gallfrey history, culture and its people in case both sides were destroyed during the last days of the war. Some of the colonists were members of the Doctor's family. Oddly the Doctor's family had a lot of influence esp. in the establishment of the Colony. Some members of the Doctor's family have stay on Gallifrey. One of whom was a member of the Military. As a result of the Length of the Great Time War, any knowledge of the colony was lost. It is likely all of those who were aware of the colony were among those who died as a result of the war.
A reason why the War Doctor had decided to end the Great Time War. One of the Doctor's children was a member of the the Military. This child had sacrifice his or her own life to save the War Doctor. The War Doctor was a very important man to the point where one of his own children had sacrificed their life. Oddly the Doctor was brother by the death of his child. Merely often any parent don't want to lose one of their children before they died. Yet during the Battle of Arcadia, the Doctor had witness the deaths of many children. Being a father, the Doctor had flipped. He had assumed that due to the length of the war, he had lost his entire father. Even briefly due to the pain as a result of seeing many children. the Doctor had briefly forgotten Susan.
As a result of witnessing the many deaths of children, the Doctor decided to end the war. Therefore leading to the events of the episode The Day of the Doctor.
Note- The Doctor's father did care for his son. One of the Doctor's false memories was a child being abandon by his family. In reality, the Doctor was sent to a children's home by his father. The children's home was a boarding school. Oddly despite the Doctor's father being busy man, he had been able to find time to spent with his son. Oddly as a result of time and the Great Time War, the Doctor has develop a lot of false memories of his family. He is able to recall some true memories of his family.
5:06
This is the best one…
5:43 . In the episode 'The Legend of Ruby Sunday' Kate Lethbridge Stewart said she didn't know the Doctor had a Granddaughter, yet there is a picture of her in her building! I hope someone got fired for that blunder.
Hardly, they haven't been fired for the lousy writing, storylines and dialogue, plot holes and profound lack of any character development...
So why start now?
Maybe they just know she's an associate from sightings but not his relative
@@MKR5210”I sure hope somebody got fired for that blunder” while complaining about continuity error is a joke from the Simpsons, spoken by a nitpicky fan. It’s poking fun at people who care about that stuff
You’ll find many in agreement with the “fire RTD” sentiment. Especially Christopher Eccleston.
Rule #1 the Doctor lies! - River Song
THANKS for this!!!!
I've never seen footage of the Gatwa Doctor before, and it's nice having a Doctor with more than one hairstyle.
If you're confused, read the DW book Lungbarrow. It explains everything
.........😈
Fingers crossed, that we remember whenever we watch 15 and Kate's scene, the continuity saving phrase, "The Doctor Lies."
the master and the doctor had kids together has always been my head canon.
I think you may be missing one, but i don't remember exactly how the scene goes. From memory, in the episode with the space whale don't Amy and the Doctor have another conversation where he aludes to having been a father, or where she asks if he has kids? I believe it goes that he sees a crying kid, and he says something about how the child isnt crying for attention because hes crying silently and says that that's something only a parent notices, so then Amy asks if he noticed because he's a parent?
Has anyone expounded on - for or against - the idea that Susan is Jenny's daughter and "First", at some point in the future came to have custody of Susan (perhaps something happened to separate her from Jenny) and that when the story picks up in 1963 all this is in this is in their past?
I'm not deeply informed on all the lore that's been established related to his family relations but does that thesis hold any water or no?
Honestly, i am hoping for this outcome because we haven't addressed Jenny his daughter, and in all of his extra years in the show that we did not witness i found it odd he never heard or chanced upon and i would love to have that storyline closed
I would love to see Susan again But also it would be cool to have him reunited with Jenny as well.
Is Susan, really the doctor's granddaughter or something completely different if you take her first appearance in The Unearthly Child she acts as if she is hiding something she can't explain to Ian and Barbara at first it's brushed over at the beginning but eventually when Ian and Barbara meet the old man who says that his Susan's grandfather but the odd thing a few years later the doctor remarks " Yes I am Your grandfather Susan". Sort of third person or the doctor means he will be her grandfather referring to remarks in the latest episode. So maybe there is an alternative way to think about this we know the first doctor as the original but is this the wrong way round? Jumping from that to the Sutekh and Mrs Flood and possibly Susan Foreman connected to The Daleks' Invasion Of Earth in the 21st century which still hasn't happened or will it after Sutekh? Alternatively the other is the Silence also may return. And about Jack Hackness mentioned an event related to the fall of Unit 2024.
Oddly here's an odd theory about Mrs Flood she's Morgana Le Fye's/Goblin Queen there was a Goblin King so where's the Queen? Fork Lore says both were the same thing and both have a connection to Whoinverse Lore there was a female Trickster as well?
Love the second Doctor’s clip.
‘I bring disaster’
No, mate, that’s the writers
War Doctor:Hello
This was a good 8 minute video.
ah, I see. Nu Who naysayer
what is it with everyone's hateboner for Jodie?
@@Usagi1992 If you like it, that is okay. There are plenty of videos out there explaining the dislike. ex- the terrible writing, inconsistencies with canon, the politization of everything, and the agenda push. People have suggested that there could have been a show made about Romana that true fans would be interested in.
The doctor literally be aging in reverse each regeneration is younger
My take on the Fifteenth Doctor's statement of not having had kids "yet" is that he was referring to the part of the family that would eventually generate Susan.
Also, the Tenth Doctor only mentioned having been a father in the past, which does not necessarily imply that he had children of his own but that he's merely been a father figure for them.
It does coincide and make sense, in a timey wimey manner.
Boy do i miss the lady DR 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
I really, really want Susan to return in the next episode. They've deliberately brought her up and the Doctor's family numerous times this season. It would feel a little disappointing if it didn't have a true payoff.
I agree. It's been long enough. If it ever happens, it'll probably be considered a reunion 60 years in the making!
Who was the Time Lord that uncovered her face?
The one in the 10th Dr's scene? Many believe that the woman is the Dr's mother
Probably Tecteun. The Doctor's mother.
The weird thing is Susan looks like River Song, I think shes Susan's grandmother
The Doctor and River don't have any kids
So Amy or Rory's mother? Umm, nah.
@@alexandertelson3713 Not yet, but timey-wimey stuff. He could do!
@@alexandertelson3713 is it ever said for sure that they don't?
"I was a dad once"
Does this fit with the new idea of him not having had children yet? (I think it's a cool timey wimey idea but wouldn't he say "I will be a dad once" or something.
And then "Donna I've been a father before"
But then,
Amy: "Doctor, do you have children?"
Doctor: "no."
Amy: "Have you ever had children?"
And then no answer.
And 15, in "Devil's Chord":
"I did have, I will have... Time Lords are complicated.
its deliberately very ambiguous, it could mean he hasn't met Susan's parents yet but he has had other children, it could mean he's met his child or children but doesn't know who their mother is its just deliberately making The Doctor's family more mysterious and complicated but without saying exactly how
The brigader meet Susan in 5 doctors
thank you for not sharing the janky as heck human line from the movie 😅
This comment is more for The Doctor than anything else, by writing this I will have sent myself to prison once more, for the first rule of communication is that: He who talks first is necessarily the criminal, for he does not know the rules of that to whom is recieving, that is a part that only comes when the reciever will have listen and had the time to sort everything out, and so however long the return takes, it is by an unfortunate series of events that I am the one basked in fire. There is in this length no amount of words that covers the whole lesson of what there is to go thru, and there is no doubt that they are but things of which you already know, for only if it was the case, then is there in the first place the existence of any a case to consolidate. This is but my peacemaking, the kind of thing one does when they are at their end, this is a consolidation of the fire started in the mind in having been exposed to the craze of idea, being, possibility, to see it frozen in space and time, locked perhaps as a stone, one embedded in this frame work called the net, for however long it will last anyhow.
At the end of the day, there is but one mistake that The Doctor's family made, and it was that: A tard may have authority, but it does not have priority. For it is the case that speed is king, no matter how right the tard is, if it will be the case that the tard makes a move and it is against the king, then the checks will come thru like fire. Proper parenting then is to consist of family and friend each competing over the issues of the tard. If the tard deems that it should go there, you have to get there first, if the tard want to eat a snack, you have to see it eaten first, and so there is that competition, without which the tard does not grow properly, but this was nothing new, for if I could type it, then you have already known, and it is for that reason that I may have inherited the information. And what evidence is there to show that this is the case as stated if not for the fact that the tard can travel to any-a-place at all? Is it not so that when it will have arrived, the presence is there? And so has this statement not been already checked true? So then there is only one use for a message that is like this, and it is when you need to be blunt. When you are by yourself again at the lowest low, to tell you that the world was already knowing, only you should have been told, and may this then be a reflection of that.
Now rhen if all this is said, the number 2 thing of which there is to point out is the solution that is to be had at hand. There is still the work to do me with my guns, you with your whatever, that is if you will follow me in prison. And at the very end, like all man, one should desire to conquer the world, see an end to the blasted city, desalt the oceans, move them back into the mountains, see the forest rewritten inch by inch, desert returned to desert, which if met then on one hand there is the shutting down of need for calculation, on the other land of keeping calculation fresh, not mixed with so much pain, agony, things of which that no doubt exceeds the tolerance of the kind to handle. So then here, you would've answered your own question, "Why can't you be kind?"
If you will not throw in your stone to see these things into fruition, who will?
Surley the doctor must know about the place he was found
That's why I enjoy watching the classic Doctor Who better because how can that chick be his daughter? So confusing
What about the mention of the Doctor's family in The Curse Of Fenric?
One more. Curse of Fenric:
KATHLEEN: Do you have any family yourself?
DOCTOR: I don't know.
KATHLEEN: Oh, I'm sorry. It's the war, isn't it? It must be terrible not knowing.
DOCTOR: Yes.
I still think Ruby's neighbor is Susan have from the beginning.
Question:
In the conclusion of the 'END of Time'...exactly WHO was the elderly Time Lady th Doctor saw? HOW was she related TO him??? Please answer these questions 'cause it's been driving me crazy...and STILL IS..!!!!
To me it's obvious that she should be Susan.
In the Big Finish audios, she joined the Time Lords in the Time War, and Rassilon took an intetest in her.
Surely she would be by his side at some point.
Especially when the Time lOrds travel to Earth, as she has experience with the planet.
Missed the scene in Fear Her
9:20 considering Tektuyoung is indicated (but not confirmed) to be later Rasalin is something. Also makes you wonder if there is a connection to Sutehk now with such a similar name. 😂
I'm fairly sure the Timeless Children script mentions Rassilon and Omega separately to Tecteun, in that scene where the three Time Lords walk down the corridor into the light. Implied that those three together were the Founding Fathers.
@@jaymbeats7027 that’s possible, it has been a while since I watched it.
Question is Techeun and the woman from the end of time both the doctor’s mother like same character
Yeah no not canon
@@tardistime6857 what u mean yes and no?
The first one 😢
Ruby is her granddaughter. River song is her mum. Mrs flood is Susan
Alternately: Mrs. Flood is River and 12's daughter. She is also Ruby's mother which would make Ruby Susan.
@@tmage23 Both wrong, Mrs Flood is Clara.
@@stukay2803 Got anything to back that up besides the outfit?
@@tmage23 no. just my own gut feeling.
@@stukay2803 fair enough.
Awesome vid
How do we know Susan was biologically his? Can you be adopted in Gallifrey?
still family either way
@@stanloonasilly Absolutely. But people are looking for a daughter (why not a son?) when there doesn’t need to be.
Should have left it with Capaldi. Anything following is so shit its not cannon.
2:52 *TV MOVIE MENTION!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥*
Man, Doctor calling his female companions Susan in various occasions is just like my grandfather and grandmother lol
Aw, they called you Susan too. 😏
@@DikaWolf your grandmother and grandfather never called you by other name of the family?
@@Pedrinhorachaplays799 Not that I remember.
@@Pedrinhorachaplays799 I feel like that's something that comes automatic with age. Probably happens to every grandparent / elderly relative.
@@Zestieee i know, happily my grandparents don't have Alzheimer, i don't know what i will do if they develop this
I blame the toymaker. He made a jigsaw of the doctors life.
“Did you like it?”
i was just about to bring that up
He gave us the perfect answer lol
Timelords did it first
My personal headcanon from the newest episode is that based off what the doctor says in The Devil's Chord, "I did have, I will have, some future doctor has kids and sends them back to live with the first doctor, so The Doctor is still a dad and has had family but hasn't yet had them.
yeah but don't forget in "twice upon a time" the original doctor himself like his twelth counterpart both decided that they wern't going to regenerate. how would the first doctor have been able to accept that he had kids in the future of his timeline, if he had already chosen not to regenerate?
No this isn’t the case he’s stated he knew his children a few times. “Dad to dad”
“I’ve had children before Donna”
“I was a dad once”
He either means that he used to have kids and will in the future.
Or
He did have kids but in Kate’s future.
@@flytoinspire well given that the doctor at multiple times believe they are going to die, then I think its safe to assume that him having kids is not a fixed point, somehow, and that the 1st and 12th doctor understood that when it came to refusing to regenerate. Anyway you look at this line it doesn't really make sense unless the Doctor mean that Susan was the person he was a dad for, which I don't like since it erases this presumed family life the first doctor had.
Edit: You could also read it as that everytime the doctor gets close to death he just assumes "guess the the kids weren't mine," and then when they inevitadibly live that he just assumes "okay maybe they are mine"
@@flytoinspire Alternate futures
Like this person said though, just because the Doctor hasn't had kids yet doesn't mean he hasn't been a dad. He could have kids in his future, and then raise them in his past. He's still a dad, just in a timey wimey way
Man, The Five Doctors really dropped the ball regarding representing Susan. The doctor went from mistaking others for Susan because he couldn't let go of her to not even batting an eye when she reappeared after nearly a century.
That doctor was at a different point in time. The first doctor had only just left Susan not long in the five doctors, the other doctors, however, already had their moments of grieving with no Susan
Stephen Greenhorn and RTD1: "Donna, I've been a father before"
RTD2: Forget about that. Just think about salt or something.
I always liked the idea of the Doctor being a father, I really hope that 15 lied to Kate
@@TetchyEquationhe had to, 15 literally said four episodes ago that he was a dad like come on
🤣🤣
@@TetchyEquationhe said “it’s complicated” no lie
"Do you have any family?" "I don't know..." Curse of Fenric.
Strange how come Kate didn’t know the doctor might have children? In the episode with the zygon and the 3 doctors they clearly show a picture of Susan on the dart board?
What about 8 talking about being half human on his mother's side?
Don't forget river song as well.
Hear me out: I'm fully convinced John & Gillian Who will return one of these days.
I really wonder, are the Doctor's seven grandmothers seven different grandmothers, or just different regenerations of the same grandmother? Because the former would imply some VERY interesting things about Time Lord marriage laws.
I was looking for this after last episode! thanks whoob
There is also the fun 'Demensions in Time' special in 1993, which was the crossover with EastEnders to celebrate the shows 30th Anniversary/Childern in Need special.
Canon or not (though this show loves to canonise everything and the Childern In Need stuff often is considered canon) it was awfully fun.
3:46 Well, she's...Peter Davidsons daughter which is my personal favorite doctor and I married her, so shes...my wife!
I love that we get to know more about the Doctors family in the new season
Looking fwrd to exploring the susan angle FINALLY. Since she would be a timelord too
Susan is in the 22nd century, how does she get back her older?
Who ist this women in the "The Ende of the Time", this is not the mother, isn't it?
The trouble with Doctor Who is that the stories have all been written by different writers. Good luck to make logical sense of it all. I and most other fans are interested mostly in who plays the Doctor. Some writers and directors are better than some others, of course. It’s still a good show after all the time since 1968 or so. British writers are generally better than most other writers.
Jenny isn't The Doctor's actual daughter." She just a clone.
Hope we will one day see one of the Doctor’s children, I always wondered what happened with them or if some of them are still alive.
Doctor said will come back to grand daughter Susan
Who is that that woman? 4:27
His mother
4:25 all these years and still can't get an answer. WHO IS SHE?
I remember someone said that she is the mother of the doctor, but i can't be convinced
War Doctor: I Missed My Granddaughter Everyday Her Name Is Susan I Made Her Leave Her Life With David
So when she says she had 7 grandmothers does that mean new adoptive grans that helped 're raise them or does that count for various generations still being alive.
The doctor being in the orphanage doesn't necessarily mean parents are dead just there do their list through time or a battle field or are too irresponsible to raise him directly with having high seated jobs
5:11 rule number 1
The Doctor always laying
"For what its worth i think you bring joy" is the BEST line written and delivered in 7 seasons...
In "The keeper of traken" the Master says gallifreyens only have 12 incarnations.
12 regenerations = 13 lives/incarnations. That was from “The Deadly Assassin” in 1976 and honored by just about every production team since then except for Chibnall. He decided to embrace the “Morbius Doctors” idea about Doctors prior to Hartnell from “The Brain of Morbius”. Even though “The Deadly Assassin” invalidated it. In “The Five Doctors”, it was revealed the High Council can bestow regenerative cycles and offered such to The Master - who had cheated the rule - in exchange for helping The Doctor. And decades later, thanks to Clara, the Time Lords granted The Doctor a new regenerative cycle.
The Brigadier met Susan.
Yes, there was a brief clip of them (Susan and the Brigadier) in this video
@@rainymoon9848 I'm referring Kate saying he never mentioned her in the new episode. It's nonsense.
the last two are not the Dr,
Why is that?
Well, maybe not ruth doctor but even so
what is with the massive hateboner for RTD?
The timless child story was the worst thing to happen in Dr Who. Glad they made some efforts with the Toy Maker to cover it. They should do all they can to completely kill off all ties with that story.