Do Young People Care About the Church? | re:Brand Live at Holston AC

Our first live audience and a panel of Holston's youngest and brightest! This episode, we talk about the age gap we all see in our churches. how can we be in better relationship with young people? How do we invite them into what we're doing? Or better yet, how do we evolve the way we do ministry to include young people from the start?

[@paulroland6387]

As a young person who grew up in the UMC, one issue that I have had with the UMC (and I have met other people who grew up and have left the UMC who expressed the same sentiment without me bringing it up) is that most of the time the UMC feels more like a charity group than a church. It feels like a Rotary Club, Lions Club, Masons, VFW, American Legion, etc., etc. It's a charity club. That's cool for people who have the energy, time, and/or money to be volunteers and who really enjoy that kind of stuff, but that tends not to be young adults and it begs the question of why the UMC instead of Rotary/Lions, etc.? It just doesn't feel like a church, or (being very generous) it's a church that has prioritized "Love your neighbor" over "Love the Lord your God" and just has it's priorities out of order.
There are a lot of other issues too, but I think they often boil down to the UMC simply being a "boomer" denomination. Not to be "okay, boomer" about it, but it's true - as a generation the baby boomers were just able to shape and mold the UMC to themselves more than just about any other denomination, so it is just distinctively a liberal-leaning baby boomer denomination. Too much about the messaging, worship, and environment of the UMC has been and is still shaped by the sentimentalities of the boomers to really appeal to younger generations, but that's sometimes hard to specifically identify and correct for. A combination of factors has just pushed the UMC out of the market. It has grown hostile to or anti-evangelical, so it's not really an option for most evangelicals anymore. Along those lines, the worship service and capabilities of most UMC congregations just can't match the praise & worship rock-show experiences that so many nondenominational churches have now. The UMC also isn't the place for people who are charismatic nor is it a place for fundamentalists, and those all mean that the major cores of American Protestantism just don't belong in the UMC. That alone rules out most people, and most young people, in rural America.
On the other hand, the UMC doesn't have a consistent theological or liturgical tradition, so it doesn't appeal to Mainline Protestantism anymore. Lutheranism and Calvinism (Presbyterianism) have their own systematic theologies that can draw in and appeal to people. Anglicanism offers a lot theologically and they offer a substantial, consistent, and historical liturgical tradition that appeals to a lot of people. Methodism just doesn't have those - Wesley wasn't a systematic theologian... Methodism was a movement, and that movement isn't needed anymore frankly. Anglicans (and pretty much everyone else) have picked up on the practices that made Methodism unique and other charismatic denominations have continued on further the spiritual charism that started with Methodism. We just don't fit in with the Mainline anymore, so we don't appeal to mainliners.
I found that the lack of consistent, mature theology and liturgy of the UMC made it a very religiously shallow place. There just wasn't any room to grow and nowhere to dig roots. I left to be able to do those things. Other people leave for "big eva" churches with the shows to catch their attention. Others just drop out entirely because the discipleship of the UMC was just too shallow to build or sustain anything.
After the split with the GMC now, the UMC is even more stuck in liberal baby boomer world. It's very obviously a politically liberal denomination (it feels like just a spiritual wing of the Democratic Party - I've even seen in person and on Facebook/Twitter UMC-ers reject that we should do anything special, acknowledge, or celebrate in any way Independence Day in Church because we are supposed to be global and un-national... even the Catholic Church has a "Mass for Independence Day"! So does the Episcopal Church! How much blander and out of touch with society can we get?), so if a young person (or anyone of any age) has conservative leanings, then the UMC is just not a welcoming or attractive denomination. The theology that is expressed or presented usually leans in progressive/modernist directions, which doesn't appeal to people seeking anything deeper than poetry or who want something connected to history and tradition - anything that's bigger than themselves. Likewise, the worship, especially the liturgies of the Book of Worship, reek of "sunshine and rainbows" style boomer, hippy sentimentalities.
A LOT of young people are actually starving for tradition. Our world (& technology) are constantly changing, and a lot of young people look to religion to offer them something timeless. The "new & cool" attitudes of the UMC only appeal to the boomers who were all about that in the 60s-80s. The UMC would do better if it actually used the liturgies of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer like John Wesley told us to (if we did that, we'd at least offer something unique in every small town that has a Baptist & Methodist church, so instead of trying to compete with the Baptists, we'd actually be able to offer something they can't & won't do!). We're also supposed to celebrate communion every Sunday according to Wesley, but most churches I know of don't do that and either refuse to or don't see any reason to do so, which underlines the poor theology that exists in the UMC. It also means that church services aren't really worshipful... there's no reason to show up in today's world. You can listen to or sing music whenever, you can pray whenever, you can listen to sermons whenever, you can listen to scripture whenever, you can even tithe whenever... there's no reason to get out of bed early on Sunday to go to church for most people, and I would say that's largely because we don't regularly offer the sacraments or emphasize their importance. We've lost the message Wesley had.
Not to rain on the parade, but I don't have much hope for the UMC. I think the showboating at general conference made the UMC lose a lot of credibility with a lot of people, and I don't think the changes and directions that the UMC wants to throttle will actually result in growth or discipleship among any demographic. People seeking religion will go to other denominations, and the UMC is still just going to be competing with the charity groups (all of whom are also experiencing similar problems of aging membership with few young people joining...)

[@bensmith9832]

Thanks for joining the conversation. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and agree with much of the analysis you give of the current state of the UMC. I do think we often look too similar to social clubs and charity organizations. The UMC has a long history of serving communities in our backyards and around the world. Sometimes, maybe even often in recent decades, that principle of service comes at the expense of personal pity and discipleship.
But... where my belief differs from yours is in my hope for the future. I do believe we have a strong theological foundation. One that is not only still relevant for today's world but NECESSARY for the revitalization of the church in our western world. The Wesleyan understanding of grace on which our denotation is built is, I believe, unique. If we preach a gospel of grace the way Wesley did in his time, I truly belief the Lord will use us to breath new life into our communities.
Yes, we need to recenter ourselves on a strong foundation of personal and congregational discipleship. Yes, we need to be serious about preaching the gospel with honesty and urgency. I often lament the apathy and lack of speed with which the UMC grows towards the Church I believe we are being called to be. But even in my lament, I see hope for a future. I believe the UMC has God-ordained prophets and teachers working towards the renewal of our denomination and I for one am committed to being a part of that work.
- Ben Smith, re:Brand Host

[@paulroland6387]

@@bensmith9832 Thanks for your response. If you have the time to read: My sincere challenge to you (not being argumentative, but honestly trying to help achieve your goal from my own experience with the UMC) is that the UMC needs to be more specific and uniform in what the UMC means by grace, and to be more intentional in our actions relating to grace.
I have heard a position similar to yours for most of my life from the UMC, and in recent times due to disaffiliation struggles, I’ve heard many people say that the UMC needs to broadcast its message of grace more to the world. Yet, I have rarely in my life heard anyone be clear on what exactly this is and what we’re supposed to do with it.
If it’s just the theological ideas of Prevenient, Justifying, and Sanctifying Grace, then it’s not all that unique to Methodism. The Wesley’s didn’t invent these ideas (which I think is good - they gathered it from the Church Fathers, which is great), and although different terminology is used, the same concepts are found in Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and modern Anglicanism (maybe Lutheranism too?). The threefold terminology is perhaps uniquely Wesleyan, but not the underlying ideas. So, in terms of the higher education/theology, the Wesleyan doctrines of grace aren’t quite the selling points that I think most Methodists think they are. However, they do differ from Calvinists, and to many evangelicals perhaps, but (as I sort of mentioned in my first comment) I don’t think the UMC is really evangelical-friendly (which I’m not saying is a bad thing at all), so I just don’t know that it will sway people inclined in those directions.
On a more local level, in my experience most Methodists have essentially boiled down the doctrine of grace to simply “being nice.” Something like “God loved us first, then we accept God’s love, and we continue toward perfection by loving our neighbors” [*cue generic niceness and the charity complaint I had in my first comment*]. It’s not that it’s totally wrong, but it’s just not substantial.
A personal critique I have to the “just be nice” attitude is that it often seems to result in an attitude of: God loves everyone just as they are + because God loves people as they are, so should we = therefore nobody needs to change (maybe even there’s not really sin, or no need for repentance). Not only do I think that’s just theologically wrong, but on a practical level there’s no challenge - if there’s no challenge to arise to, nobody will rise to the challenge. “Pick up your cross and follow me” just doesn’t seem to be present in that attitude, and I think that results in a lack of appeal to people, especially younger people who are (whether they know it or not) searching for meaning and purpose. So when it comes to reaching the unaffiliated/nonreligious, the UMC just isn’t offering that challenge that speaks to the heart.
To use Discipleship Ministries’ handy graphic, the UMC focuses a lot on Works of Mercy (Acts of Compassion & Acts of Justice). That certainly is part of our progress toward Christian Perfection, and it may indeed be how many people encounter grace from God, but the Wesleys and Church Tradition inform us that the sacraments are the primary means of grace, and communion is the more frequent/accessible sacrament. The UMC needs to spend time focusing more on the Works of Piety (Acts of Devotion & Acts of Worship) and being very intentional about celebrating communion every Sunday in a disciplined, liturgical fashion, and emphasize the Sacrament of Holy Communion as the primary means of God’s grace given for us. If the church is trying to emphasize grace but not frequently and seriously engaging with the primary means of grace, then what is it even doing? Methodism does have open communion with sacramental theology, and that is a very unique position(!), but I don’t think I’ve ever heard UMC-er’s preach the transformational, perfecting power of communing directly with God and becoming one with God by partaking of Christ’s Body & Blood and receiving the grace of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross restoring us to the health of the Garden… Methodists do have the ability to preach actual altar calls to communion all the time, whenever, wherever, open to absolutely everyone (Taste & See - Psalm 38:4), but I’m not sure it’s hardly ever done even in the UMC’s own churches, and most UMC communion experiences I’ve had were lackadaisical.
If doubling down on grace doctrines is the way, then put some meat its bones. Give it some teeth and bite with them!
Hopefully some of that is helpful or worthwhile

[@donnapalmer6780]

shout out to Tiffany