Game of Thrones and History - Between the Lines
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2014
- Original Upload Date: 4/1/2014
"History is the witness that testifies to the passing of time; it illumines reality, vitalizes memory, provides guidance in daily life and brings us tidings of antiquity." Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC), Pro Publio Sestio "I prefer my history dead. Dead history is writ in ink, the living sort in blood." George R.R. Martin, (1948 - ), A Feast for Crows
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" Original Upload Date: 4/1/2014"
oh that explains it
7:39 that music + the words made me shiver for a good minute.
Cezariusz 88 Same music that played during Littlefinger's own "Chaos is a ladder" speech.
The last line of this video was the moment I figured out what a genius you are.
"Four Gods sit on the windowsill, where once eight gods did war and will,
And if the Gods themselves may die...what does that say for you and I?"
Livening in Aberdeen, a town that rarely gets mentioned outside of farming jokes you have no idea the ecstasy I felt seeing the William Wallace statue
Well you're not Croydon! (Sorry Sarah Jane)
I am re-watching all your older videos, to keep my brain cells alive during the endless nursing sessions with my newborn. You'd be able to spark my interest for literally everything ❤️
Ooh! Also, the whole spreading an empire by outlawing slavery and engineering slave revolts that coincide with invasions is right out of Cyrus the Great's playbook!
I think you should do a companion piece with this about how Steven Universe and Undertale's success says the exact opposite about society. My theory is that the generation that grew up with the adults that witnessed 9/11 and grew up in the Great Recession, has made the conscious choice to abandon cynicism. We like Game of Thrones because it's an accurate portrayal of _how we think the world is_, but we also crave uplifting material about how we're supposed to handle all this awfulness. Steven Universe and Undertale are popular in a culture where we believe compassion is our only choice. Not even because it's the right thing to do, and certainly not because we actually think we'll be rewarded for it (what makes both of these properties avert complete saccharine sentimentality is that there's never the guarantee love _is_ going to save the day), but just because we can't afford anything but the high ground any more. We tried to get revenge on our enemies and we ended up only learning we had more to lose; we tried to neglect the weakest among us and it only ruined all of us. The return to childlike moralizing epitomized in the twin (and interwoven) success of this cartoon and this video game can be directly traced back to the recession, the Iraq war, the impending climate change, and a culture wide admission that we have to be compassionate or we're not going to survive.
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I dunno, your paragraph is a pretty good analysis on it's own. Maybe you could make a video about it?
KingoftheGundam79 Will you pay for a professional camera and mic for me? I'll do it then.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude, just wanted to help. Then again, I managed to make my reviews by recording my voice with an iPhone, so there are ways around limitations.
KingoftheGundam79 I was just being snarky.
My goodness! This is absolutely amazing. I had to watch it 3 times just to digest it all. Well done! Well done indeed.
About the first five minutes are some of my favourite stuff you've ever done, Kyle. I think the writing and your delivery has a great rythm and ring to it.
4:06 "It's an omen" Stability -1
Velox Mortis I wished I lived in more enlightened times.
Took Innovation ideas, comet has no effect.
Targaryens could be also Ptolemaic dynasty.
Sara Samaletdin iirc the targaryens/valyrian nobility in general were in fact inspired by the ptolemys!
6:12 that Ren Faire is Scarbie in Texas! Or possibly somewhere else that same cast tours. I recognized the crows nest ride for sure.
I wonder if those ten narrative appeals of the Medieval Era can similarly be applied to the Wild West.
BigBadSeed Not being a scholar but just a well-read layman, I'd say, "Absolutely!"
According to Eco, they're not really appeals, but more revisitations in different periods. For example 1 in Early Modern times, 4 in the 19th century and so on. But just for kicks:
1. Pretext: Yes
2. Ironical Revisitation: Yes
3. Age of Barbarism: Dunno (less pure strength in Westerns, more cunning and guts)
4. Romanticism: Yes
5. Philosopha Perennis: No
6. National Identity: Yes (But only American identity)
7. Decadentism: Dunno
8. Philological Reconstruction: No (this one really doesn't work as a narrative appeal, only as a period)
9. "Tradition": No
10. Expectation of Millenium: No
erik idiot n
Just watched literally all your vids
Anyone else feel like playing medieval 2 total War all the sudden?
I loved you, I found reason in this video, I still love you, please do not stop. It is why I never stopped, please Kyle don't. Would really like to meet you one day. You are a wonderful person, your passion inspires me.
"The cousin's war." Very good; you know your subject.
very good analysis
Great analysis.
History is just one damn thing after another
Okay between this video and your new westworld one I’m definitely checking out Umberto Eco’s work
Valar Milakunis
Memento Mori. Or... valar morghulis ;)
Interesting that you mentioned the Danse Macabre. I noticed similarities between Saint-Saens' orchestral piece of the same name and the GOT theme.
I'll be laconic by saying just... EPIC
Lovely analysis of Westeros, especially mentioning Umberto Eco!! PS. Kyle, is this one to be a Shakespeare Summer as well?
How about the parallels of Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms?
I'm impressed, Kyle. If I were you, I would have used a doge meme for the 'Doges of venice' thing. Because I am an immature child.
And then came seasons 5, 6, and 7.
Most of the important stuff in game of thrones has two historical basis. The wilding for example are the Inuits and Scottish. My favorite though is Kalashee, she margret of anju + ghenghis kan
Actually Ned Starks closes analog would be Richard of York.
This is solid. I wonder if you've had a chance to read Thomas Malory's Le Morte Darthur. George R. R. Martin has, as you say at 7:20, given modern readers "the gift of complexity" by which to better understand the similarities between the medieval world and our own, but Malory preceded him by nearly 600 years with a highly critical, psychologically resonant story about a King Arthur and knights of the Round Table who plunge England and France into chaos. Some moments in A Song of Ice and Fire are reminiscent of moments in Morte Darthur, like Arthur's own failed attempt to kill his own illegitimate child in a mass pedicide which leaves Mordred alive, and the Lannisters' attempt to kill all of Robert's illegitimate children which leaves Gendry alive.
What’s the court of love at Poitiers?
What’s the ominous comet he’s referring to?
Watching this in May of 2020
Holy shit does this ring true
The Mansas of Mali don't really have any parallells in either the books or the tv-series, as far as I can see.
Anyone know what music at 4:53 is?
+Tekcomputing Productions It's "Goodbye Brother" from GoT's Season 1 OST, if I recall correctly.
8:02 "And yes, likeable characters, beacons of hope can die before their time."
Benazir Bhutto is a strange choice, but she sort of applies.
I'm more confused about why in the hell is Pervez Musharraf there. This is a man who launched an unprovoked attack on a democratic, free nation. When the Indian Army offered to return the bodies of slain Pakistani soldiers, he denied that they were from the Pakistan Army even when the Indian Army presented the Pakistan government with their ID cards. In the meantime, Indian Army soldiers' bodies were returned after being brutally mutilated. This is while he was only a four-star General. He then overthrew the democratically elected government of Pakistan in a military coup and ruled his country as a dictator for 9 years. During this time, he sheltered Osama Bin Laden in Abbotabad, miles away from the Pakistan Military Academy, and is also linked with sheltering Maulana Masood Azhar, who founded the terrorist organisation Jaish-e-Muhammed that has conducted numerous terror attacks across India and was responsible for the kidnap and murder of Daniel Pearl. He also sheltered Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, who is linked with being one of the planners of 9/11.
Likeable character? Beacon of hope? Sure, if you're a terrorist.
Sorry, I forgot to add that Musharraf was about to nuke India in 1999. The warheads and launch mechanisms were being moved to the border when Bill Clinton intervened and talked him out of it. Thanks for that one, America.
The picture at 2:01 is certainly not depicting Richard Neville Earl of Warwick.
Uh, yes it is: f.tqn.com/y/historymedren/1/S/x/M/2/warwick.jpg
Yep sry you're right. I looked at the clothes and assumed it was not him because he is depicted in 16th century clothes. It's the Earl of Warwick but made later. So the clothes are kind of "incorrect".
7.19 "no simple narratives"
while this is about %90 true when it comes to the books
its more like %50 true when it comes to the show
its often pretty clear who to root for in the show. who is good and who is evil
+steven s We aren't supposed to root for Robb Stark, right? Because I hated that guy.
I would have agreed with your last sentence had Martin stopped at "A Storm of Swords." Now, I'd replace 'complex' with 'convoluted.'
Well, for one thing, the show is run primarily by two guys who repeatedly and unrestrainedly demonstrate how incredibly narrow-minded and discriminatory they are. Who mocked one of their own actors when she had to film a rape scene. Who portrayed the book's complex, nuanced and three-dimensional characters as broad strokes of racist stereotype or bland soap opera cliches. Who literally made up plot points out of nowhere that existed for the sake of shock alone. Who treat Tyrion Lannister, a man who explicitly commits horrible acts in the books, as a holier-than-thou messiah figure. Who wasted ridiculous amounts of money on props that nobody cared about instead of on the filming budget. Who are so completely closed-minded and dismissive that they've refused to make any convention appearances because people keep bringing up all the things the show does.
....I guess that's a lot more than one thing but you get my point.
+Gublinch Scrivener You were. The Lannisters were pretty much objectively evil by that point, while Robb, for all his faults, still had a fully functional moral code.
And the show keeps getting worse and worse.
Who was that lady in 8:03?
Benazir Bhutto a politician who was killed.
BUT WAT ABOUT DA ICE ZOMBIES
3:52
Who's in the painting?
canadmexi I think its Mansa Musa, who was emperor of the Mali empire in the 13th century. He was recorded in western sources because they were amazed by how much gold he had.
Person Finch
He was the richest man of all recorded history. Literally caused a market crash because he bought too many things on a trip.
Richard III wasn't as bad as people make him out to be.
and who was responsible for the bad press of Richard III? - oh right Shakespeare, and for what reason? only to please his queen because of her great grandfather
Lilithia Abendstern Indeed, it's easy to forget that Shakespeare wrote that play mostly as propaganda, because you know; back then you wouldn't want to offend the ruling monarch who was also an avid patron of the arts.
....he stole the throne out from under his nephew, had Richard of Shrewsbury (the younger nephew) ripped away from his mother while in a church sanctuary and most likely had both his nephews murdered. It's likely the Duke of Buckingham (rather than Richard himself) was the actual murderer, but it's not as if Richard III didn't know what was up there. I mean, come on.
And then he had Elizabeth Woodville's father and brother executed on trumped up charges.
He's exactly as bad as people made him out to be. The only death sometimes attributed to him that he had nothing to do with was that of his brother, the Duke of Clarence.
hello from shortly after to 2021 coup... oof
You forgot the fact that game of thrones even had their own roman empire
But wait, if fire is nuclear weaponry, shouldn't more than one house have it?
+Jenifer Joseph Now, I'm not terribly familiar with the show or the books, but considering that they are still being written, who knows that more than one house may come to possess them.
sam0318 Ah, then eventually it'll come to whatever is this world's equivalent for oil
+sam0318 Not likely, the Targaryens are the only house in Westerosi history with any control of the dragons. Not just the house even, but the line itself, and there's only one living Targaryen left in Daenerys. Having a non-Targaryen control the dragons would be contradicting the magic rules that the show and books have established thus far.
+Jenifer Joseph Not necessarily. The metaphor doesn't come so much from M.A.D. as much as the dragons being a weapon of immense destruction that makes conventional warfare pointless. When the, Tyrells I think it was, fielded an army against the Targaryen's, they made it a demonstration of just how futile even the largest armies were against the might of a fully grown dragon with an intelligent rider.
Thank you; it's not a one-to-one metaphor.
Oh this aged badly.
English war of the roses. We stayed waaaay out that nonsense.
Game of Thrones is a little TOO cynical
And exactly for the reasons presented I prefer to read actual history than Song of Ice and Fire aka "The most overrated series of our time - novels and TV"
Don't let the hype get to you.
Wtf Are you talking about season 1 till 4 where a masterpiece in storytelling yes its not completly realistic but it has aspects that other stories just dismiss it has some real stuff and complex characters like in real life