What Are the Best Copper Bullets for Hunting? (Interesting Results)
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Because many public lands are banning lead bullets, we've been looking for the best copper bullets for hunting. We bought 5 different copper loads and took them to the range for a 100-yard accuracy test. We didn't necessarily find what we expected.
Watch and see which copper bullet faired best in our .308 accuracy test. If you want to skip to a specific load, here are the time stamps:
Start: 00:00
Sig Sauer Elite Performance Copper Hunting: 00:30
Winchester Copper Impact: 2:04
Hornady Superformance CX: 2:37
Norma EcoStrike: 4:26
Barness Vor-TX TTSX BT: 5:57
If you have any insights about copper bullets, please comment and let us know your thoughts and experiences.
Check out these links for more information (some of these links are affiliate links which means I may make a very small percentage commission at no cost to you.):
Best 308 Ammo Part 3: • Best 308 Ammo (PART 3)...
Best 308 Ammo Part 4: • Best 308 Ammo 100-Yard...
Best 308 Part 2: • Best 308 Round (Part 2...
Best 308 Part 1: • The Best 308 Ammo [10...
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*All opinions are ours. We are not paid for any of these reviews. Our goal is to always provide a thorough, unbiased, and honest review with no fluff - just facts and our opinions - so you feel like you can make a well-informed buying decision. 
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Very thorough test I like it
Thank you! Thank you for watching!
I think your channel is doing a great job. I think by staying to a topic or area will bring more subscribers. Possibly in the future having a solid barrel without fluting will allow better results possibly (maybe even test this)
Thank you for your support. We appreciate it!
Definitely some preformed better than others, but think they would all get the job done. Thanks for the review, be well guys.
As long as he was close!
When I first bought my Savage Axis 308, before I received my die set so I could load my own, I bought some Winchester copper extreme point and I was getting 1 moa with them. When I started loading my own, with Nosler Accubond 150 grain I got as little as 3/8 inch groups. I also got great groups with Spear hot core, and Hornady SST bullets, loading my own of course.
Excellent. Thank you.
Good video. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you! Thanks for watching!
In three seperate 308 Win rifles that I own, the Barnes 130 gr TTSX has been the most accurate bullet of any type to pass down their bores. Performance on game has been outstanding and I've yet to recover a single one. I've only used them on whitetail but wouldn't hesitate to take hogs or cow elk with them out to 300 yds.
Fantastic information. Thank you. The 130 grain I ordered should be here today!
The 130 grain TTSX are 1/2 moa in my Tikka T3X.
Nice. Heading to the range very soon!
Coming to this late, but my testing of the 130gr TTSX produced sub 0.5 MOA with a comparatively light (2860 fps) load in my 20" barrel Sako 85 but with each 0.2gr powder increase the group size increased incrementally. The lighter load was delivering sufficient energy for my needs here in the UK, and sufficient velocity for expansion at shorter ranges, so I left it there but at some point I may take a closer look at what was happening at the higher velocities. Our powder choices are more limited than in the US: I was using Vihtavuori N140.
@kawonnowak I’ll be interested to hear what you find out
Sometimes monolithic bullets do not shoot well in a barrel that been fouled with conventional lead core bullets, because the lead core jackets are gilding metal, not pure copper. It will actually cause the pure copper to strip off the bullets. Clean the barrels completely down to bare steel before each style, fire some fouling shots, then shoot for groups. Not going to say that they will group MOA, but it may help them group more consistently.
We did completely clean this gun before this video. I’d shot a few round through it first, and it was bad, so we cleaned it. Also made sure the scope, etc. we’re all tightened to specs. Still got these results.
Thank you for the suggestion, though. We’re going ti get it figured out 😂
@@ReviewThisThing I mean use an abrasive cleaner like JB Bore Compound or an aggressive copper remover like Barnes CR10, Sweets, etc. It's good that you checked all the basics as well. The only copper bullets I've ever tried are the Barnes, in their ammo, Federal, and Buffalo Bore, in 150gr, 165gr, and 168gr. All shoot less than an inch in my custom .308. I did try Federal Trophy Copper in a 30-06 Weatherby Vanguard and it was horrible, 4" groups. Just about everything else shot less than 1.25".
Makes sense. Thank you!
Cooper bullets definitely foul the barrel more than any lead bullet
When it comes to copper bullets, Barnes is the way to go. Hammer bullets are also another really good one, if you're a reloader.
I have had very good luck with the Hornady Superperformance GMX tips in 130g w/.270 Weatherby Vanguard. I was surprised with their effectiveness on elk as I had used much heavier lead bullets in the past. Great channel.
That’s cool to know. And thank you! We appreciate you watching!
GMX shoot better than CX....I have used it for deer and elk hunt in 30-06.....now I used Barnes Vor-TX TTSX-BT no GMX available
I stocked up when I found some leftover GMX. When my supply runs out I will look into the loads you mention here. Thank you.
👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you!
I’ve shot and hunted with the Federal Premium Trophy Copper 150 grain in .308. Under moa. Problem is I couldn’t find them for the last few years so I’m shooting Terminal Ascent. The Trophy Copper is a Nosler bullet similar to the E tip. Great round.
Thanks for the info!
great info, thanks a lot.
i got into the monolithic copper bullets last week because hunting in germany with lead is prohibited. the first ones i tried was Geco Star, 165 grain.
i am not sure if these are sold in the US though...
the very first 3 shots grouped sub moa out of my tikka CTR,- done.
the hunting starts at the beginning of may,
then i will see how the performance is going to turn out on deer, like stopping power and for me most importantly the meat damage.
That’s sounds perfect! Good luck!!!
You have great videos and reviews putting you into my top 3 gun channels. I really like your consistency and easy to watch videos.
With that said, a group is all of the shots and it doesn’t matter that one hit the bullseye, two were in the same hole or a group is really tight if you throw out one of the shots. You can’t pick which of those hits you’re going to have when you are shooting at something you want to hit. When I’m trying to find a load that works, if I get a scattergun looking group with 3 shots, I probably won’t shoot the 4th and 5th. I’ll pull the bullets and try something else. I have one cast bullet that was so poor with everything I tried in my 450 Bushmaster (CVA Cascade), I pulled what I had left over and recast everything I had cast. They weren’t worth wasting any components! Of course I know you’re shooting factory rounds but I wouldn’t waste them either if the 3 shots were scattered more than 2 inches.
I’m still working on a load in 308 (CVA Cascade) with an NOE 225gr powdered coated cast bullet. I’m struggling…. I also tried some in my 300WSM (Browning A-Bolt) and it’s showing much more promise than the 308. Hoping to kill some whitetail this fall with a cast bullet and the 300 is first on my list as of right now.
Wow! Thank your for the very kind compliment! I appreciate you watching! Let me know what you figure out with the .308 rounds! We’re hoping to take the gun back to the range and try lighter rounds! Thanks for your input.
@@ReviewThisThing Moving to slower powders like IMR 4198 has helped but I’m lower on large rifle primers than I like so I’m resorting to the 100 small rifle primer Lapua cases I have. Not sure how the small primers will ignite the slower powders. Also wondering if I may need a harder bullet than the “pure” wheel weight lead I’m using. Lots of variables…
FWIW, I have 3 CVA Cascades, 450BM, 350 Legend and 308 Win. Excellent rifles IMHO.
You have a lot of experience with this stuff, so I’d be interested to hear how the new loads work out.
I don’t have extensive experience with every gun out there, but I do love the Cascade!
My 308 will NOT group under 2-3" with any 150 grain bullet I've tried. However it will .5-.75 with some 165s and 180s. That may be the case with this particular rifle as well. Thanks for the vide. Hello from Mississippi.
This is the first pattern test we’ve done with this gun. That may be the case.
My 24” 1:12” fn seems to do same. Just got some 150nosler ballistic tips to load and wow they were 5” from point of aim nomatter what combo I used and scattered bad..110v max,168gmm..5” to .3”s consistent…monster 1” barrel and Macmillan stock keeps er solid and I shoot it way better than my 6.5prc waypoint..and 110s run faster in .308 than 6.5prc 130s…
After watching this and other .308 load comparisons, I think I will stick to my Rem green box 150 PSP factory load that I started with years ago! My first two shots group in one inch then as the thin 22 inch barrel heats up, the shots walk to the right. You have busted my copper bullet ambitions!
Haha. Sorry about that. I’m with you, though. I actually filmed this test 3 other times with a different gun and had the same results! (I lost all of that footage, though 🤦🏼♀️)
That's funny, my rifle shoots Rem ammo into minute of mooseI Seriously, I get about an 8 inch group. It just goes to show, that each gun is different and you need to know what your gun likes.
100%!!!
You are rocking the 308.
Take Care.
Thanks! You, too!
When I shoot like that I wear elbow pads. They work better for me than always adjusting a mat or pad. Something less to worry about. When I shoot prone I use knee pads. Keeps little stones & sticks from digging in.
PS I enjoy your videos & coments. You shoot very well.
Ah. Good idea.
I have the best luck with Barnes. Both rifles are under a 1 inch group. Very effective on game, and dont do major damage like ive seen with certain soft points.
Excellent. They’re definitely pretty accurate!
Great job thx!
Thanks!
Both the Barnes and the Hornadys suffer from seperation at closer ranges. The one glaring omission from your list is the Nosler AccuBond, which is considered the best on the market. You should try them sometime.
We’ll have to do that! Thank you.
Years ago when I first learned about Barnes bullets the convention then was to shoot one to two weights lower than your normal lead core loads. Ie. 130 grain instead of 150 grain. in a .308, 80 or 85 grain for a .243 if you normally shoot 100 grain led cores because the increase in velocity helps stabilize the bullet better. In my experience that seems to be the ticket for accuracy.
Great tip! Thank you!
I was hoping you’d see great results with the Barnes TTSX. I tried them in my .308 match barreled AR and have been extremely happy with how they shoot.
I’ve always been satisfied shooting the deadliest mushroom in the woods and didn’t see a need to spend more money on ammo but those TTSX rounds are just more accurate. Only thing is to make sure that you are keeping your shots within their power band ( speed at distance ) or they won’t expand as well as the old lead bullets do
Ah. Excellent point! Thank you.
Havent bought core lokt since the whole remington bankruptcy thing. Maybe better now? Idk. I have plenty of ammo for now😉
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Find a gun, trade a gun. Find a true gun, friends wanna shoot it. I got 2 everybody wants.
👍🏻👍🏻
I shoot the Barnes 180 gr. TTSX in a Tikka T3x .308 using Federal brass and Ramshot TAC powder and consistently get sub-MOA groups at 100 yds. Most groups are better than 0.6 in. and I used that load last year to cleanly take wildebeest, impala, zebra, blesbok and kudu in Africa, most falling to a single shot. But bullet seating depth was the key to that load. Initial groups were over 1.5 in. but tightened markedly as overall cartridge length decreased. The Barnes load manual describes the process for matching proper bullet seating depth to your rifle and it definitely worked for me. Varying the bullet depth on the ammunition you used might well produce better and more consistent groups.
That is fantastic information! Thank you. What twist rate is that rifle?
@@ReviewThisThing it’s a factory barrel they list at 1:11 in.
Thanks!
I've learned that after shooting common lead core bullets that a thorough cleaning of the barrel makes a big difference for accuracy when going to a lead free copper bullet 👍
👍🏻👍🏻
I'm a canadain and started hand loading about 10yrs ago. I've found barnes bullets by far the easiest to exceptional accuracy with. All 3 wsm calibers I load for are well under 100yrd MOA . Was able to achieve this with just powder charge , all being 1-2 grains below max charge off the barnes website , I also find their preformance on game to be exceptional . I'll give barnes bullets TTSX and LRX a five star rating
Excellent info! Thank you!
Also you have to keep in mind that copper is less dense than lead. So when you're shooting copper rounds g, use the lower weight bullets because they're shorter and will stabilize better in a factory barrel. Weight doesn't determine the twist rate in the barrels, length does, with respect to diameter of course. So 150 grain lead is already near max stabilization on a factory barrel. You should shoot lower weight copper which is shorter and it will stabilize better.
Thank you! We had read that, so confirmation is great. I just bought a couple of lighter loads, so I’m hoping those so much better!
My sauer is 1:11 twist. Ideal for 165-168 gr. Havent tried 178 yet. Hope it they wont tumble
Which gun is it exactly?
What this viewer said.
You need a faster twist for the longer projectiles, try around 125-130grain all copper.
Thank you.
I'm running the barnes 130gr ttsx in my sig cross and it shoots 1 hole...ish groups at 100yds if I do my part. By far the most accurate ones I've found yet
Thanks! Pretty common theme!
Was trying the 130Gr. CX yesterday and though I could only get the group down to .6MOA on the initial attempts I stopped when I recovered one from the berm.
Expansion on the 130Gr CX @ 2900 muzzle velocity was terrible - The bullet lacked expansion. Even at 100 yards hitting a dirt berm expansion stopped almost 1/4 inch before the top relief cut on it. I used a hot compressed load of superformance powder to push up to 2900 FPS and could not get this thing to expand. Sub 3K muzzle velocity and these CX does not expand enough to not pencil through your deer, though Hornady claims expansion down to 2k FPS my personal results show otherwise.
Next attempt will be with the Barnes LRX - being a long range bullet I hope it can expand better than the CX at lower velocities, though it just may be that a 20 inch barrel 6.5 creed doesn't have the juice needed to expand the solids.
That's my 2 bits anyways. Thanks for the Video!
That’s great information! Thank you!
I've got four .308's. My two favs are my M-14 and my Savage MSR. I usually deer hunt with the Savage because of the lighter weight. Barnes does well in all of my .308's. I too tried Sig just in the 14 and the MSR. My groups were worse than yours. Not that yours were bad. But you know I mean. hmmmm
Another bullet my M-14 LOVES is a reloaded Tipped Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.
Great vid y'all. And thanks.
Oooh. I’ll have to see if I can find those! Thank you, and thanks for watching!
I have the dd5v3 and fn special police.308s and dd shoots .75” fn .5” to .3”s. Load everyday
@charlesmullins3238 which load?
@@ReviewThisThing168gmm from Wally town…110ge varmageddon and v max…those Norma 150s your usin done excellent hornady match 178bthp is one of best in my 1:10” ar-10 but 1:12” fn don’t like the heavies…superformance always has high velocities 143eldx awesome in my 6.5prc waypoint it’s just so light I can’t be consistent on my trigger pull as good but did shoot a 1 literal hole 3rd group with 135a tips and n560 powder. Couldn’t measure it cause it’s .264” exactly I guess..lol. I call it .19” but it’s 1 hole trust me..
Sometimes when changing to copper bullets you may need to clean the bore good, After shooting lead core bullets to get good groups.
We did that and still got terrible groups, but maybe we just didn’t clean it well enough.
From the research I’ve done you go down in weight for copper. Plus the barrel needs a tighter twist for the heavier copper. So for Barnes I’d go 130 or 150 max.
Great! Thank you!
Maker bullets is very accurate. I shoot the 425 subs and 250 gn for 450 bm both are sub moa with handloads. They do have loaded ammo now, and black butterfly uses maker bullets, at least last time i checked.
Okay. I haven’t heard of those. I’ll check them out.
Per recent videos by Back Fire and Ron Spoomer. Did you clean the bore since shooting lead core bullets prior? Not cleaning lead copper fowling will dramatically increase group size
Yes. We did both. Shot with a general cleaning and then did it again after a hard core cleaning. Got very similar results.
If your taking a rifle that shot standard lead / cup and core bullets and are now switching to monolithic bullets, you need to clean the bore thoroughly. If you do not, you will not get good results.
Also, monolithic bullets like speed. Go lighter for caliber if you want good results.
Best monolithic bullets I have ever shot are Hammer Hunter Bullets. There are custom ammo reloaders starting to load factory ammo using Hammer Hunters, but if you reload.....it would be way cheaper. Great terminal performance and the most accurate hunting bullet I have loaded for in the monolithic line.
We’ll have to check those out. We’ve heard that a lot lately about cleaning the barrel. We actually did clean it very well and got the same results. Maybe we just didn’t clean it well enough.
Thank you for your input!
3:05 People misattribute required twist rates to achieve bullet stability with bullet weight. That shorthand worked when all bullets were composed of a copper jacket and lead core; however, it turns out that it's actually more important to account for the overall length of the bullet when determining the best twist rate to achieve stability. Monolithic copper bullets are less dense, so they will be longer for a given weight. As a result, copper bullets might require a faster twist rate to stabilize than a lead core bullet of a similar weight.
Good info!
Barnes 130gr 308win less than half inch @100 win mod70 22" barrel with 1-12 twist. Chronograph 3128 fps.This is a very picky rifle,so I was really impressed with accuracy & velocity. Ordered 4more boxes. Thanks for another great review!
Getting those 130 grain Barnes is next on my list! Thank you!
@@ReviewThisThing free shipping ends today @midway & they have them for 39.99 which is cheapest I've heard of
Oh wow! ThanksN
GOT THEM!
@@ReviewThisThing ALRIGHT!! Hope to see you shoot them soon. They printed about 2" high & 1" to the right in my gun before I adjusted my scope to them. Got mine zeroed 1.5" high@100 should be on @200, haven't shot them that far as of yet. Giad you able to get!
I would suggest bedding the action on your rifle. Should tighten up your groups at any bullet weight. You also seem to have a pretty drastic cold bore shift from your first group shots 1 and 2. It's worth it to play with your action screw torque values to see if that cold bore shift tightens up
Great! Thank you for your help!
@@ReviewThisThing that thing is throwing you round all over the place, a good muzzle brake or suppressor will make a huge difference, good luck, well done👍
Thanks! It actually has a brake on it - not my gun, though.
I use Barnes For-Tex5 168 copper loads out of my Savage 99 .308 and get sub moa at 100 yards. My son uses Federal Copper Trophy 150 grain out of his .308 Tikka T3 with the same results. I've found for copper the heavier the bullet the better the results in my Savage 99 and the Tikka T3.
Great. Thank you!
I really like the Nosler E-tips in 168 grain in my 308. They work great for me
I’ll need to see if I can find those. Do you know the twist rate on the barrel?
@@ReviewThisThing my tikka is 1 in 11. I dropped a big doe in her tracks at 300 plus yards. That being said I recommend a high shoulder shot, because of the copper being pretty tough.
Now for my grandson’s 308 I have bought some ttsx in 130 grain. We haven’t shot them yet so hopefully they will perform well. I wanted to go with a lower grain for him hopefully to reduce recoil. I finally received my suppressor so hoping that will tame things down for him as well.
Oh. You’ll love that!!!
Great info! Thank you!
I load a Nosler 150gr. Expansion tip in 30-06 it shoots sub moa and is absolutely devastating on mule deer and feral hogs. I load it for my brother and nephew as well.
In 308win my rifle likes the Barnes 130gr triple shock.
I just bought some of those, so we’ll see how they do! Thank you!
I usually shoot under .3" groups with the Barnes 168 gr TSX Tipped. I'm shooting them in a Remington SPS Tactical .308 with an AAC 1 in 10 twist barrel. This gun will shoot sub MOA with bullets down to 150, but it doesn't like anything weighing less than that.
Okay. I just bought some 130, so we’ll see how it does. My other gun didn’t like the 168gr as much as the 150. I guess we’ll see how it goes thanks for the tip.
Like them rifles myself. Got the fn spr been shootin and best rifle I’ve ever shot…mod70 action..solid as rock of Gibraltar with 1” tapered to .980” at muzzle bedded action and badger base from fn…made for fbi what I’ve read and I see why. I’m bustin 20oz’s at 254yrds half asleep..
Have you ever tried PMC 308 , 147gr bullets? There $19 a box cheep I use them for the brass. When I tried them in my Savage heavy barel 308 they shot extreamly well. I dident think my twist would like the shorter lighter bullets. Go figger.
These? ruclips.net/video/kJUCwBOkQPs/видео.html If so, they flew all over the place in this gun. (Not the same gun as this test)
Barnes for me . Especially the 130s
They are sweet!
I’m about to start experimenting with Monolithic Copper Projectiles in my 200 Win Mag. Trying the Australian made Atomic 29 in 175 grain. Should be interesting, if nothing else…
Let me know what you figure out!!!
Cutting Edge Raptors 135gr shoots really well out of my Browning BLR(lever) I consistently get a hair under an inch without experimenting with different powder charges.(Varget 47 grs)
I’m not familiar with those. Thank you.
I'm curious about the twist tates of your different test rifles
I know the Cascade is a 1:10, but I’m not sure about this one.
Try cleaning your gun back to bare metal and then try the copper bullets. Supposedly you have to clean back to bare metal before shooting the copper bullets are the lead that's been left in the barrel will/can cause accuracy issues.
That’s what I keep hearing now we did clean it, but maybe not well enough.
Yes 🙌🏼
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308 165gr Hornady superformance good on my ruger American left hand
Thanks!
I would have been interested to know the velocities, most of those claim to be faster than standard bullets.
Which ones? I’m pretty sure we have most of that info.
I shoot federal premium loaded with 165 grain barnes vortex bullets and have three shot groups at a hundred with all three holes touching. Have 2 other friends with same results. Maybe give them a try.
Thanks! We may have to find those. What rifles?
Barnes ttsx 130 gr are my favorite.
Another vote! That’s great. I’m hoping I get the same results!
Try hammer bullets 124gr for your 308. It will love them
Where do you get those???
Also try the 125gr CX or GMX in your308
@tonymills7883 👍🏻👍🏻
This isn't hidden criticism but are you cleaning the gun at all during these or the other 308 test. I'm just wondering if powder fouling or copper fouling is effecting things at all
We clean between the tests - after the day of shooting but not between.
@@ReviewThisThing it very well may not effect your rifle however I had a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Grendel that I performed a very similar set of test on looking for the best factory ammo. One day started with a clean rifle but no cleaning after. The next weekend I repeated these test cleaning between the different ammo and had dramatically different results under nearly identical conditions. It could have been that particular barrel was prone to foul easy, perhaps it was sensitive to copper build up but it's worth considering that with each shot you're laying down more copper and powder fouling that the next round has to overcome & it's my PERSONAL opinion that's why you were getting 2 very close then a random round off away from the original group as this was the case in my Ruger. Anyway just food for thought to consider if you perform anymore test like this. Appreciate your hard work, time and expense doing these test
@Yelladog78 that could be the case. It’s worth thinking about for sure. Thank you.
I use federal 168 sierra match king in my 308
What rifle are you shooting?
I’ve had plenty of success with copper bullet handloads. Shooting a cheap savage axis II in 308. Barnes 130gr with 48.5gr Varget consistently between 0.4-0.7 in groups. 137gr Hammer Hunter with 46.2gr Varget performs the same. Several loads with Ramshot TAC in other Hammer bullets produce 0.9-1.2in groups, which is similar to leads loads with that powder with that rifle. Only lead handload I’ve tried with Varget was a single load with 155gr ELDM and it was like 0.78, so with more development finding a similar window of consistent 0.4-0.7 is likely.
I bring this up because I don’t want people to think copper bullets are just less accurate than lead. It’s just easier to handload since factory is so expensive and there are so few offerings, especially at sub-150gr. With copper, you’re generally better off running in the 120-140gr range for deer.
Thank you. I just bought a couple of lighter loads, so we’ll see how they do!
@@ReviewThisThing forgot to mention, I’ve tried Winchester copper impact. Garbage. Only group I have data on was 2.1 MOA, but some groups were larger than 3 in if memory serves. So bad I didn’t bother with keeping good records of the groups.
I’m glad it’s not just me!
Have you tried the Nosler e-tip 150gr ?
Hmmm…we didn’t.
What is your twist rate? Copper bullets require a minimum of 1:9 twist rate according to many manufacturers. Most hunting rifles are 1:10 -1:12 twist rate.
I’m not sure on this gun, but the other one I tried them in was a 1:10. Thank you for the info.
2/3-308W ARs, one will eat a 147/149gr all day, but the other will not eat the same load. The one 308W, I then changed to the 168gr, and it will eat this load.
So we just keep trying until we find it 😊
We Californians have been forced to use copper for a long time now. I’ve messed with, shot and loaded just about everything and nothing else is as good as Barnes, either loaded ammo or bullets and that’s in a bunch of different cartridges I’ve tried.
It sure seems that way!
The reason you are getting such bad groups is a combination of issues, but they are all effecting one thing, barrel harmonics. Accuracy is a function of the bullets velocity as that bullet relates to the barrel. If you charted this out two dimensionally, the barrel makes a sine wave during the bullets travel down the barrel. The barrel muzzle is oscillating up and down (and slightly side to side in an oval) and you want the bullet to be released at the peak of the oscillation every time for the best accuracy. Typically there is a bottom peak but it's at a slower bullet velocity and so the top peak is the more desired. OK... The oscillation is effected by the bullets LENGTH in comparison the rifling. Some times the bullet and barrel relation ship can be a terminal oscillation and you can't get them to tune to release at a consistent peak, like a tuning fork where on of the forks is just slightly off. So, not related this to solid copper rounds. In order for a round of copper to be the same weight as a lead and copper round, it has to be longer, it's the only way to do it. This immediately affects that relationship between the rifling and how much of the bullet is in the rifling. In order to get the oscillation back to where it can tune, the bullet has to be lighter to re-achieve the right length relationship. And... this affects the velocity. Now you have to play with velocity to see where the bullet is being released at the top of the sine wave. So, in general you are going to always have to go down in weight to achieve the right length relationship with the rifling with the copper solids. I don';t know if cleaning copper from the lead bullets before using these bullets is true or not. I haven't tested it. It sounds suspicious to me, but that isn't based on any tested results. I personally have found copper solid bullets to be way more difficult to reload to an accurate hunting load in comparison to lead core bullet, but reloads with them always come out more accurate than factory loads. Short of barnes (which only does copper solid bullets) I suspect the ammo companies just aren't putting the test and evaluation time into their loads as it's a fairly small niche of their product. Good luck.
Nice. That actually makes really good sense. Thank you.
Guess I'm not seeing that 2nd target 🎯
No worries, I'm old and blind and it almost 3am. I'd be on a 590 & flite control ammo anyway
😁😁
My sauer likes black hills gold 168 gr barnes tsx
I’m going to have to check those out.
Hornady whitetail shoots moa also. I love this rifle. A little $$ but its a honey badger
I’ll have to take a look!
Not sure if anybody ever looked into that, but could it be copper monos are more sensitive to fouled barrels? The material is way harder.
We’ve read a lot of different things. I shot a few through but first, and they were terrible. Then we cleaned it completely and went again. Tightened the scope and everything before this test. I’d be interested to hear any thoughts on that, though.
@@ReviewThisThing 🤔I guess the copper monos are just more selective in general.
My Savage 110 30-06 shoots sub MOA with the 168 grain TTSX and 1.5-2 MOA with the 150s
That’s definitely one thing we’ve heard - that they’re just super picky. It sure seems that way.
@@ReviewThisThing makes for great content 😁. Thanks a lot, especially since that ammo is anything but cheap.
In case you want to explore different weights with the same selection, I would suggest to rather go down than up with the 308Win. Even out of a 24’ the 165/168 grainers drop below speeds that guarantee good expansion at about 250 yards.
Thanks! I just bought some lighter weight Barnes and Norma.
150gr Hornady International ECX best for my 7x64 so far. Shoots 1/2 MOA. Anything lighter than 150 gr spreads 2-3 MOA. 🤷♂️ Not much choice of 150gr and heavier because of the lighter copper bullets.
Good info. Thank you!
Wow! I would send it back for accuracy issues.
Something!
130 ttsx shoots .5 with my 308 Mauser. Kills like lightning
Okay. I’m pretty excited to test it out now. The rounds I bought just came this week!
What is the barrel twist on your cascade?
1:10
Thank you for the info, keep up the info vids, because I watched all 5 of them to figure out what grain and make ammo can work for my. 308.
Thank you, waiting for the next video.
That’s so awesome! Thank you. This weekend is a follow up to this video.
@rudymaritz1794 and I can tell you the results were the exact same out of the Cascade.
I wish you would show velocity’s
We're getting our setup better, so we'll do a better job of that. Thank you for your input!
PS - If you can't get good/consistent groups with monolithic bullets in a gun that's previously fired cup & core bullets, thoroughly clean the barrel. This most likely will resolve the problem (don't take my word for it: confirmed by both Ron Spomer & Jim Harmer ruclips.net/video/ULVKvt1MCpg/видео.html&pp=ygULYmFja2ZpcmUgdHY%3D)
To be clear, the rifle doesn't have to be cleaned every time it's shot...just need to get the lead and gilding metal out at the get0go.
We actually cleaned it very very well before this video, but maybe there was just too much buildup already.
I'm running Barnes Vortex 168gr TTSX BT through my Savage 110 Scout. I'm getting under an inch at 100y from a bipod.
What twist rate is that rifle? Thank you!
@@ReviewThisThing 1 in10 twist
Thanks!
Barnes Bullets all day baby! I told you!
They didn’t disappoint!
@@ReviewThisThing now go put one through a deer and see how awesome the terminal ballsitics are.
I can’t wait!
I wish you had given more information on both the gun and the ammo. As long as you're doing an accuracy test, it is pretty useless to compare and make use of the results without knowing the barrel length and twist rate, the bullet weights (it's on the box for crying out loud).
Good point about the rifle. I usually just refer back to a previous video I’ve done about the rifle so the viewer can learn a lot more details about it, but we haven’t done any other videos in this one. I’ll keep that in mind. Thank you.
At the 0:14 mark I say that all loads are 150 grains.
Appreciate you watching.
Okay, I missed that. Then the internet tells me the Savage 10 has a 1 in 10 twist and a 20 inch barrel. If that's your gun's spec then this isn't a lot different from my Browning BLR that has a 20 inch and a 1 in 12 twist.. The longer bullets, which are the heavier bullets of course, need a little more spin to stabilize and I'm not sure why Browning went with a slower twist but I will still need to do some testing of my own.. Still I think I'll stay away from your worst result contestants. Thanks for the video. I didn't mean to be overly critical but it is actually more useful to know twist and bullet weights because they both contribute to stabilization. Thanks for responding. @@ReviewThisThing
@blackbirdpie217 No worries. I appreciate the response. I will tell you that I did the same test with a 1:10 CVA Cascade in .308, and I got very similar results. The Barnes were really the only ones that were close. If you try them, let me know what you find.
"pattern" test? 🤔First time I've heard that for anything other than a shotgun. In well over 50 years of shooting. 🤷👍😁😉😋
Yeah. I said it wrong.
You're not getting consistent groups because you don't understand the dynamic difference between copper and lead projectiles. In your defense bullet manufacturers are not offering suitable ammo for your rifle because few people do understand and that would effect sales. A clean barrel (down to steel) "is" critical and then cleaning it again after any lead bullets are run through the barrel. where they seat the bullet (to the top groove) is probably the best depth for the most rifles so short of rolling your own that's a good compromise.
Here's the critical thing to understand: A comparable bullet in copper for the one you are shooting now is not the same "weight" as your current bullet but the same "size" bullet and just going down a weight or 2 won't get you there.
We always thought that you needed faster rifling to stabilize a heavier bullet,
when all we shot was lead that was good enough but in actuality it was the length of the bullet that was critical. (to be more precise it was the length of the bullet subject to obduration of the lands to take into account the sexy ogives of the VLD type bullets) Arrange to run a 110 gr. bullet down your bore and see what happens. While you're at it have whoever assembles the loads run them fast and see how you feel about your drop in trajectory being cut in 1/2. We have seen the future and it is bright, the sooner influencers online and elsewhere can understand, then relate to the ammo buying public the sooner ammo manufacturers can market the very best combinations and we will all be better for it.
So what would your load look like?
The first load I got to shoot after several abysmal failures in my Swedes I ran a ladder of decreasing COAL length with a medium charge weight rather than a ladder of charge weights looking for accuracy. working down from 3.15" std. mil. ammo length my groups were 3-4" "patterns" until I hit the length of 2.80" where the group sucked into 1-1.5". "Then" I ran I ran the ladder of charge weights with RL-19 and I hunt with the one that sucked into .076"......seriously....one hole. I'm a hunter....I've got no business shooting like that .:) Before that I was running a Corelock 140 gr. and a 160 Hornady round nose load which were tuned. The first copper I tried was 130 gr. TSX before TTSX was on the market, just a waste of a couple of very expensive boxes of bullets before we knew the 4 rules. Scrub the bore, use the same size bullet (it will be "much" lighter" not just lighter) they need jump & run them fast .
I would add to that to put the bullet on bone because it's going to drill (literally) a 1/2" hole straight through a deer which ever way you line him up but that's the second part of the comparison. There's a big difference in how they kill too and normally you might not want to put a 120 gr. lead bullet on the point of the shoulder on the chance it could blow up and not penetrate with copper you "know" it's going to penetrate and the resistance of bone will scrub off more energy in the deer. I understand that they may not always open up reliably once they have slowed down but that is out farther than I would shoot at a deer and one of the reasons you want to run them fast both.@@ReviewThisThing
@randywelsh2692 great information again. Thank you!
Beautiful demonstration honey I your work shared😳👍
Thank you so much!
Pattern Test? Shotguns shoot patterns. Rifles shoot groups.
Yeah. Someone else mentioned that. Misspoke.
It turns out that shooting copper bullets in a gun that has previously shot lead core bullets can affect the accuracy and the barrel needs to be cleaned before switching.
ruclips.net/video/ULVKvt1MCpg/видео.htmlsi=bVv4cvG_K_HcTI9F
I’ve heard that a lot lately. That must have been a pretty recent video. We actually did clean it very very well before this video, but maybe it wasn’t enough.
It's definitely not the bullets it's the shooter you're pulling
If you watch in super slo-mo, what you’re seeing in the recoil. I’m not perfect by any stretch, but i don’t think that’s the whole problem.
Your shooting looks good and I have seen you shoot very small groups in the past. I have had similar results with all copper. The Barnes tsx and ttsx continue to be the go to for factory ammo for me. You might do better in that gun with a separate load development.
Since you test so many guns, it might also benefit you to get a Bradley adjustable cheek riser so you can fit yourself to the gun before you shoot. They have a velcro system that is easy to put on and take off without any damage to the gun.
Thank you! I actually just put a Matthews Fabrication Kydex riser on my Cascade. It’s definitely nice to have it!
@@ReviewThisThing the Bradley requires no drilling
Gotcha. I’ll check them out! Thanks!
That is a pretty far shot to test a group just my opinion id like to see a test alittle closer
100 yards? We don’t tend to shoot much closer than that unless we’re sighting in.
@@ReviewThisThing you definitely shoot very well. I just know when I hunt I hunt without a tripod or prop so i also sight my guns in closer.
@codyreece7871 ahhhh. That makes sense. I’m not THAT good 😁
Clearly the bullets are so hard they are not making good barrel contact resulting in poor gyroscopic performance. Hence inconsistant result..
Seems like something is going on.
Negative,,,the bullet is definitely not the problem with the group,,, inexpensive rifle budget gun , achieve inexpensive budget results on paper
I shot all of these out of two guns (neither high end) and got basically the same results. I would definitely be interested in trying them out of a higher end/higher cost rifle to see the results.
@@ReviewThisThing I have shot monolithic strictly for over ten years,,,my rifles are the low end browning xbolt,,,and a weatherby mark v is mid,,then the custom action and barrel guns are the high end,,,I have found sub .375 groups are very easy to achieve with handloading,,,powder charge and seating depth are very important for the best accurate loads,,,,,that being said I run multiple grain pills in all of the rigs,,,,it's expensive too,,,,Barnes ttsx,,,, nosler etips,,, Hornady cx and the old gmx,,,and makers bullets,,,,all shoot great but the nosler etips are the cats meow for the tightest groups,,,but they build pressure faster as they lack the contact rings of the others,,good luck and keep shooting,,you will find the combination for your rig,,in the end no lead in the meat is more important than a sub .225 group,,,, plenty of game has never known the rig that killed them could only hold a at best 2.500 group at 100 yards
None of them.
No copper, or none we shot?
NONE!!!!!
Haha. What’s your favorite round?
My Rem 700 really likes Barnes 168 g ttsx BT. 3/8in grouping at 100 yrds
Nice! Thanks!
Since 1978 as a single income, I have guided clients from all over the world on hunts for Pacific NW Roosevelt Elk - Black Tail deer and in Alaska for Dall sheep - Mountain goats - Yukon Moose - Interiors Grizzly and coastal Brown bears.
I have used the barns x bullets longer than I can remember the years and now myself and the clients are required to bring Barns loaded ammo with TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets and not less than a 338 win mag or what I have been using a 9.3x62 Mauser - after near death experiences caused by ignorant East coast deer hunters who brings a 30-06 deer gun with Federal 150 grain deer ammo I set a rule and if the client can't fallow that rule then better go find another guide.
One near death experience from charged by a 1500 Yukon Bull moose that nearly killed me and cause me 1 1/2 year of recovery from injury's caused me to set the hard rules that must be fallowed to the T.
Alaska isn't just hunting what many think are stupid Moose these Moose are in rut and their meanness is ready to attack anyone and anything thing when you get then stirred up using calls.
Then the area of guiding operations has a state estimate of 300 brown bears per miles and black bears even more who become belligerent & threatening to come into camp over food smells or you have a moose down.
My new Alaskan guide rifle is now an AR 10 in a reloader cartridge 375 - 300 WSM so I have 9 cartridges in a 20-round magazine and the same power as a 375 H&H magnum in the AR 10 so there is no hand movement to work the bolt for a new round to be chambered making fallow up shots just like fallowing and shoot birds with a shotgun.
Wow! I don’t blame you! You’re a brave one!