.308 vs .30-06 - Best for Big Game? BALLISTIC GEL TEST
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024
- In this episode of Cartridge Talks, Mark Boardman and Ryan Muckenhirn are back in the lab - or range more accurately - shooting gel and comparing two of the most iconic .30-Cals. to grace gun safes across the globe. We’re talking the .308 Winchester and 30-06 Springfield. Both cartridges have seen the battlefield. Both are toted into the field by hunters who trust them to handle any buck bull or bear they come by. Both are proven, loved, popular and frankly, two of the best cartridges ever made. But which is better? Watch to find out!
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30-06 for 43 years now. It’s taken bear, elk, mule deer, sheep, pronghorn, whitetail, assorted varmints, pig, and on and on. I hand load for the animal from 220 gr down to 125 gr and all in between. You cannot do that with a .308. Many cartridges shoot softer than the ‘06 including the .308 and are touted as “superior” but there is NO cartridge that is as versatile as the 30-06 and when properly hand loaded, is the equal to many. Goodness knows it seems to be the round everything else is compared to.
30-06 will put shit down but I've never had a problem with elk running my .308. I've never shot a bear though I think I'd definitely take your rifle over mine for that.
6.5 Swede has entered the chat
Couple of questions. What was the distance you shot the jello? If distance wasn't at a "hunting distance, 50-300yrds", can you exstrapolate damage at distance using jello?
@@ryanupchurch9683 90 percent of my hunting is done with a 6.5 swede and modern riffle load data, really nice to shoot.
A .308 can do it too.
I'm a diehard 30-06 guy myself. I've hunted with the same rifle for over 30 years. It's never let me down once.
Same story here.
Same here too. Tried true trusted.
Amen!!! Same here. I have taken a ton of coyotes with a 110gr and deer and hogs and Axis with the 150gr and elk with the 165gr. Have not hunted anything bigger.
Hit the half-century mark with my '06 this year.
@@sisleymichael Beware of the man with one gun he may know how to use it.
My dad has always been a .30-06 guy. When i bought my rifle a few years back, i went with .308. we smack talk each other a little bit about which is better, but in reality, they perform so closely it really doesnt matter. They both work great in the southeast where we live. The biggest thing about these two calibers is that they get us together in the woods and at the range. That time together is priceless.
Mark, you and Ryan are nailing this. Smooth, clean, clear, concise, and on point. Well done!
First for hunt honest and shoot straight 🔫
I agree!
Ron👏👏👏
Hunting as a child in Wyoming I had my dads 30-06 winchester. We hunted deer and elk. My dad loved the heart meat. So we shot our game in the neck. We learned where to target our rounds by cutting up our own game. Dad was an engineer he served in WWII as a major in the Army Corps of Engineers. He was very particular about validating bullet performance at ranges from 50 yards out to 500 yards. Dad was a stickler at wind direction msking sure we were always up wind. We tracked our quary and stayed in the tree line. Until we got with the 200 yard range of our deer and elk. I learned a lot from dad. We always had lots of elk and deer in the fridge. Which we shared with our friends and neighbors. My mother was there showing how to cook the meat so it was flavorful and tender. Dad was slways look up at for his knowledge. It was not until shoryly before he died thst I found out he was the first to enter the NAZI concentration camps. Disarming the explosives the SS set under the jews. The greatest generation. 4:29
God bless you and your family. Love is a verb and it sounds like your parents knew how show their love for you. Yes, the greatest generation. I think we're going to need a similar generation in the future and pray they will measure up to the task.J.Au-en
Your dad sounds awesome.
Wonderful, thanks for sharing
I like the heart meat also and don't like hitting any big bones because of the meat damage. I learned about hunting from my father and I've taught my son. This year my son and one of my grandsons hunted with me. We didn't get our elk but we both got our deer and my grandson was with us when we did. He is already a die hard hunter and angler. My firearms have a home when I pass along.
ss set explosives under jews? dont be absurd
These showdowns are always fun. The verdict: We need one of each
I have one of each already…
Well I have 2 rifles in .308 and one in .30-30. Do I dare go .30-06? Maybe.
Rat kill…I have a .308 and my dad has a .30-06. They are extremely close in performance. If you were to get another .30 cal, I’d actually suggest a .300 Win Mag.
@@stephenparchewski1998 then that makes you an “Even Stephen” 😂
At least one of each
The 30-06 is just a cool cartridge. Amazing history, huge bullet selection, and extremely effective.
I think you should have used the same grainweight in both.
I'm sure we all knew that the 30-06 was going to penetrate further, but I had no idea that it would penetrate THAT much further! I'm impressed.
Yeah its perfect for those times you need to kill 3 deers with 1 shot.
They should have used the same weight grain bullets to more even it out, like say 165's out of both. My guess is they would have been a good bit closer though the '06 still would have took it
@@tyson9539 Wondering if the standard cup and core construction would still hold together with the higher velocity 30-06.
@@bronco686 I'm sure there'd be more fragmentation than the 308 would but there'd still be enough penetration on a deer. Elk or a big boar that's a different story
@@bronco686 who knows how many deer and elk have fallen to the mighty Remington CoreLok in 30-06? It must be a huge number.
Townsend Whelen said .30-06 is never a mistake.
Yes. I built a .35 Whelen. Wonderful rifle to pack in bear country.
It would have been nice to see the same projectile to be used in both cartridges so you can see the performance difference apples to apples.
I believe somebody is paying the top RUclipsrs and sponsored channels to do exactly the opposite of that. Can't promote sales of the 308 by showing it is nowhere close to 30.06. most people don't realize it but the difference between 308 and 30.06 is almost the same difference between 30.06 and 300 win.
I'm not saying 308 is a bad round, it perfectly bridges between 30-30 and 30.06.
As a solo hunter, the 308 is much more manageable, especially with semi-auto rifles. I have a BAR in 308. I enjoy carrying this rifle so much in the field; I am prepared for any game, including the dangerous ones, to pop into a close encounter suddenly. It's very comfy and accurate, especially without scope, just like my 30/30-another versatile round.
I'd say it's more of a tie. If you don't mind the recoil then the 30-06 is just better
And with that logic the 300 wsm beats both
@@MrJtin69I shoot all 3 calibers they all do the job.
I have and have hunted with the 300 WSM, 30-06, and 308. I thought I would really like the WSM but the edge it gives in reach isn't that important in my hunting. I pick the 06 tops, 308 second and 300 WSM third for my hunting.
🤣 Fed Up, you are finally talking "Sensible"! I AGREE! 🤪
Not to mention the difference between 94 and 96 different loadings is irrelevant. I would not trade my -06 for a 308, but I would be okay with a 308 in my safe.
That slow-mo shot of the copper exiting the gel was fantastic
I've used both for the last 30 years. They have been flawless. Learn your cartridges and run with it.
Personally I think the performance difference between the two lies at ranges beyond 350-400 yards. All things being equal with respect to bullet weight, composition, and construction, the 30-06 simply has more gas in the tank, and so pushes the ethical mean point blank range just a little further out. When you introduce hand loading the differences become even more distinct with heavier projectiles. To pick a clear “winner” is difficult, as there needs to be a strong consideration for the task at hand, as both rounds are more than capable for most game species inside 400 yards. So as with many, my chief consideration will have more to do with the platform most appropriate for where I’m hunting, as weight, terrain, and the distances I anticipate on encountering become the deciding factors on what I will bring into the field.
I tend to agree. Below 2 or 300 yards either will get the job done just fine for most game people hunt. 300 or so, the 30-06 takes it, and for the larger game too. I do question what percentage of hunters shoot at game 300 yards or so out or hunt the larger of the game animals. It would be very abnormal for me to even be able to get a glimpse of an animal 100 yards away since most hunting areas around me are wooded and even rarer to shoot anything but a deer.
I don’t know if y’all hired a new producer or what but these new videos have been a big step up. I really appreciate the little bits through out, really brings up the entertainment value.
I have always thought of .30-06 for pushing grain weights of 200 or so for those who did not want a .300 Win Mag. But .308 is so practical and has also killed just about every game animal out there. And it does have a managable recoil and so a shooter can get comfortable and good at it. And .308 with shorter barrel length was a smidge more maneuverable. a 16 or 20 inch barrel will get you to about 600 yards fairly well.
Well said, that chocks them both up perfectly as to what they really are in attributes.
A 30-06 with a 20" bbl gives up nothing to the .308, and I personally cant feel the difference in recoil. Especially in a rifle that uses a long action for all rounds (Tikka, Remington 7600 etc...), there really is no advantage to the .308. I've owned both the .308 and '06 with 20" bbl's, as well as the .270win and 6.5x55... for any type of hunting where the short barrel would matter, they all worked about the same.
@@bushleague3472 Fair enough. And there will always be different experiences. For example, I had mentioned that the 7 PRC feels like an unbraked 308 to me. And someone chastised me because, on paper, the 7 PRC may have more of a recoil impulse because of grain weight and MV. Which is not what I was saying. I was not talking about calculated recoil but I was talking about felt recoil.
So, similarly, here, either rifle will work just define. A matter of personal preference. And yes, you can get so many of these 30 cals in various lengths.
@@bushleague3472the ammo is cheaper and performs virtually the same 😂 308 is better
@@JoeJohnson-i9d Here in Canada the difference in ammo price is negligible, and favoring heavyer bullets in the .30 cal rounds the 30-06 does start to have an advantage. JMO, but if I didnt want to use a bullet of 180 grains or more, then I would rather use a smaller caliber.
I have rifles chambered in both calibers and they are comparable but useful in different ways. Realistically the 30-06 is virtually tied with the .308 in accessibility, no real edge to the .308. In terms of a hunting cartridge, hands down the 30-06 takes the edge. Especially when you give more weight to the attributes that really matter most for hunting, wound channel+penetration, as well as wind drift…winner 30-06
The test I wanted to see and didn't even know it! I moved on from the .308 to 30-06 last year and have enjoyed the change. I never had an issue with the .308, just wanted something new.
As a new hunter and new shooter. I’ve been taking advice from my friends who have years of experience in both on me. I had narrowed it down, to these 2. I was very heavily leaning towards 30-06, until I went out with my friend a few weeks ago and shot that, the 308 and a 6.5 creed. I liked the feel from the 308 best. And then he told me something I didn’t know and it was the reason he switched from 30-06. Granted we’re in Canada so our gun laws and selections etc are garbage compared to my American friends. But what sold me outside this video comparison was the fact that if I needed a rifle in an emergency situation I could also use 7.62x51 in a 308. And that’s a super common police, military and surplus round here in Canada. So that settled it for me.. but I still wondered what the actual penetration and performance would be. So thank you for this video. I’m going to 308
Against a human at home defense distance? Really not important if you use 308 or 30-06 They both will be devastating especially if you use hunting ammo.
You can also shoot 110 gr bullets from the 06.now I understand the 308 is becoming more popular than the 06 and that you can have it in a lighter rifle.the little more performance I get from my 06 makes it my choice over any other cartridge. I used to favor rems big 7 and though it outshines the 06 in most areas the 06 is still more versatile and ammo is more readily available and cheaper.ill take my 708 over the 308 also.the 308 is a fantastic cartridge no doubt about it.great video guys
The 30-06 is the undisputed all around game king cartridge. I used it for the first 28 years of my hunting life. Finally, I went to a 300 win mag but I still miss the 30-06.. there's reasons why marine snipers in world War II were shooting 1 mile kill shots with the 06.. you guys are making up the figures on the unique loadings for the 06, I loaded everything from 110 grain Hornady amax all the way up to 220 grain Sierra match King in mine. At least 70 different loadings..
I'll dispute it. Too big for varmints, too small for bears. Yes it can do both, but I'd rather a 338 win mag in the bear woods than an 06 in the coyote prairies. The 06 is a fine cartridge for deer sized-moose sized game, anything bigger and I want more gun, smaller and I want less recoil. Jim Carmichael killed cape buffalo with the 338, I'm sure an 06 could do that as well, but I'm not going to try it.
I'm also not sure what your source is for those ww2 kill shots. The longest recorded kill of the war was 1200yds by an Austrian sniper serving the wehrmacht
I agree with you. I have a Weatherby in 30-06. I don’t shoot all the different loads you shoot. But found a load that works for everything I shoot. A full case of 4831 powder with a 165gr Sierra boat tails. Been using this for 30 yrs but noe playing with another Weatherby in 30-378. Another animal with amazing ballistics.
This is one of those great situations where you really can't go wrong either way. It comes down to finding a rifle in either caliber that just fits and feels right. Personally I have a 30-06 Savage with the accutrigger. It's a real beauty.
Both are great cartridges. Just curious as to why you didn't use the same bullet weights in both? They are available, seems it would have been a more even comparison, especially on the gel. A 180 will definitely penetrate more than a 150, with a bigger wound channel.
I’d like to suggest to revise the comparison to segment for application/game size, and do the scoring on a 5 point scale. It’s tough to say that .308 outright beats .30-06 in a category like accessibility, whereas it’s more like .308 is a 5/5 and .30-06 is 4.5/5. Absolutely love this content…Keep it going!!!
Definitely should’ve used the same bullet out of both cartridges! Give us an apples to apples comparison. Especially since both cartridges are capable of shooting the exact same bullet.
They failed to mention that the 220 grain for the 308 is mainly subSonic
I am a .308 guy. I like the smaller recoil. try the 165 gr sst in the .308 for deer. So effective. If you love the 30-06 try the 35 whelen.
I too enjoy the lower recoil. If I want to feel more recoil, then I’ll shoot my .375 Ultra Mag.
Thank you Men. Appreciate the format of the ballistic gel tests. Looking forward to future installments. Please include a 280 Remington vs 280 Remington AI in a future ballistics gel test.
In factory loads, same bullet from the same manufacturer (say 150gr Winchester PowerPoint) the 06 typically has 75-125fps advantage. So out to 400 yards, can't imagine there is much difference. Now, 06 has the advantage of powder capacity for when shooting 180gr and up.
But when you handload that gap opens up. Especially with the heavier bullets like you said.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 oh, ya. Handloads make a difference.
Can you guys please do a 300 win mag video and a 7mm rem magnum talk please !!!!!!!!! Love listening to you guys while at work!… keep it up the great content
I second that…those are both two classic “Magnums”.
300WM for the win!😊
What about the 30-378 weatherby? Talk about insane…
@@stephenparchewski1998
My old boss has a 338-378. It'll get your attention.
... And a 460 Weatherby magnum... Violent lol.
Hunted with :06 until the 2020 ammo shortage, bought .308 because I could find it everywhere. 150 grain bullet, out to two hundred yards on the average MO whitetail, have no problems with the .308. Now I hunt part of the season with one caliber, finish with the other.
Tremendous video series! Thanks for all the hard work you put into this!
You would think these comparisons would get old, but y’all made it very entertaining and interesting. Great job!
Thanks for the comparison video.
If I ever lost my 30-06 and all my stock-piled 30-06 ammo in a boating accident, I might consider replacing it with the more popular 308.
3006 is always better than 308 don't lie
The 06 was better in the category’s that counted the Most ! ? Grizzly 🐻 06 or 08 ?
Excellent quality video, lighting and photography top notch. The really only difference is the 1/2" case length advantage of the 30-06. The 06 will shine with a slower powder, heavier bullet and longer barrel for larger North American animals (and your shoulder will immediately feel it). For deer, the .308 or 6.5 CR is excellent.
I love both calibers, and, like a discussion on which tool is the best, with every factor that can be considered, it is really going to come down to application and personal preference. I'm excited to watch the episode when it comes out.
Nothing is more versatile than the 3006, period.
If you’re a hand loader.
...in a long barrelled rifle.
In a 15 inch TC Encore barrel, the 06 will still produce more velocity, in general.
@@fedup3582 no actually it doesn't. The reason is the working length of the barrel is 15" minus the cartridge length. This means the 308 gets an extra 0.5" of rifled barrel to accelerate through. Anything shorter than about 18" the 308 should win. Anything longer than 20" the 30-06 should win. Between 18" & 20" they should tie.
Assuming two things, it's no contest. 30-06 wins hands down. At worst it's a tie. First assumption, you handload and your rifle isn't junk. Load the 06 to the same pressure that the newer .308 is loaded to. The only reason the smaller cartridge can compete ballistically with the larger, is the pressure ceilings are different. Keep your Garand and M95 away from those loads and all is well. The second assumption is that you know how to properly operate the action of your rifle. Anyone that short strokes a 1/2" longer cartridge, is not operating the rifle correctly. There might be a slim advantage for a short cartridge in target games, but not in the game field.
Those are some good points. I prefer the .308 because it’s a bit shorter and ammo is easier to find where I am. What may be the superior cartridge for me, may not be the superior cartridge for you. It all comes down to what we all want/need/expect in a cartridge.
@@stephenparchewski1998 When I was young, and I no longer am, I went shopping for a used rifle. For my first center fire rifle, I would have bought a .308, 30-06, .270, or... I found an 06, and a 7mm mag at the first shop I went to. Good shape and priced for my budget. I chose the 06 being worried about recoil. Later I found that to me the recoil didn't seem all that different to me. The seven mm is probably better, but not as much as many suppose. I was a reloader for handgun cartridges, but became a 'handloader' with the 06. Loaded to the pressures of the .270, and
.308 which are safe in the same rifles the ballistic performance is superb. The .280 benefits in the same way. I have more powerful rifles, but in truth, everything I've killed would have fallen to a .257 Roberts. I get close and use good bullets. My very light .260 Rem. Winds up going hunting more than the rest.
I love the .308, but to be perfectly honest, the gun I’ve killed the most big game with is my .223 with 60gr Nosler partitions. For meat animals, I go for headshots with that little tackdriver.
I dont think any game will be able to tell you what they got shot with both will do the job but in my opinion 308 is the better option like might as well go up to a 300win or wsm over 06
If you’re going to hand load, that is where the old 06 shines for sure.
I shot the M1903 (modified in 1906) 30-06 on the military range when I was in the Corps. I was able to reach 500 yards with the old iron sights. However, I don't believe I could do that as a senior without a scope.
My argument for the 30-06 is it gives you a bit more options when it comes to different types of hunting. More than enough for the deer woods but very capable on elk. With the same grain bullet it outcompetes the 308 in velocity and if you hand load you could load down to 308 levels for a lighter shooting rifle. I think it sits perfectly between the 308 and the 300 winmag!
Harry was a guy I worked with and hunted with in Oklahoma. He and I had the 30-06 vs 308 discussion many times. I would point out the ballistics were better on a 308, he would say "yes, but if you go hunting and forget your ammo you can stop in at any Wal Mart and get 30-06 - not so with 308. So when I bought my first deer rifle 15 years ago I got it in 30-06. 12 deer later it's getting the job done, although I find there's less tracking with the 180 gr bullets as opposed to the 150 gr bullets.
My dad and I reload, we like 168 grain boat tail for hunting with 308.
Vote was wrong!
Shootability is same with brake
Accessibility is same
Versatility is same
Drop...30-06 wins
Power...30-06 wins
Overall 30-06 wins
308 only wins in small action gun selection
But plenty of 30-06 rifles out there
They are both great cartridges. I've shot many thousands of rounds out of both in competition and harvested deer with both. The military went to the 308 for a reason/s and it doesn't make decisions lightly. While the 06 has a slight (vary slight) ballistic advantage it's really negligible in most situations. In the end, IMO it's personal preference. That said, I have many 308's for hunting/competition, and two 06's, one hunting, one match rifle.
U.S. NAVY DISTINGUISHED MARKSMAN
Thanks for the comparison 👍
I get that only factory offerings where being compared here, but really versatility should have at a minimum been a draw. Any bullet weight the 308 can shoot, so can the 06, including the 110 grain bullets. If you you factor in what you guy's said, that the 06 handles the heavier bullets more effectively, then really the 06 should have won the versatile category. Love the video though!
Do the 30-06! I would recommend that to anyone weighing your decision unless a few extra lbs of recoil was significant to them. Given your affinity to the 300wizzzzzzzem I think your good. Great podcast as always fellas.
Great video guys. I always look forward to new releases. I like the .308 for it’s lower recoil and almost identical performance. The .30-06 is a great cartridge, but the .308 wins for me.
Now, with the calibre being the same, the faster bullet will always win. However, these cartridges are no joke. Not many animals walk away from being shot with either; the difference regarding performance on game is very minimal. I prefer the .308 because it is a smaller package (shorter cartridge, a little less recoil).
Both of the cartridges should be tested with equal bullet weights. I'm sure there would have been fewer differences between either loads .
I've owned and hunted with a .30-06 since I was 16 which is 58 years. As far as versatility goes an 06 has a bullet range ... that varies in bullet weight from 6.48 grams to 14.3 grams ( 100 to 220.7 gr) in solid bullets, and as low as 3.6 grams (55.6 gr) with the use of a sub-caliber bullet in a sabot. Making it the more versatile rifle. You can use an 06 for varmint, small game and large game depending on your choice of ammo. Makink it a great all-around rifle. As far as the recoil goes, it just doesn’t feel like it's that much more. Shooting lighter loads the recoil is less than with heavier loads. Even at 74 the felt recoil is very manageable.
This series is amazing! I'd love to see the 220 Swift vs 22-250
Or even the 204...
Thank you for taking what could have been a very dry topic and making it both enlightening and entertaining!
30-06 vs 300 win mag or short mag or both. I already know the outcome but hey would be fun with heavy and light bullets.
My all-time two favorite rounds. 308 because my grandpa gave me a Winchester 88 in 308 when I was 9, and 30-06 because my uncle who took me hunting all the time, and loved and used the 30-06.
I get warm fuzzies whenever I load up either, thinking about the family history
Love these new videos keep them coming!!!
.308 came out on top but this makes me want a .30-06 hunting rifle so much more haha. The versatility and accessibility seem irrelevant between these 2 in particular. Great video guys!
Yeah I've always felt that 30-06 shines in versatility. in the 150-165g range, it's so similar to .308 to not even make any difference, but 30-06 shines at 180g's. And this is coming from a .308 lover who owns two of them.
I made the mistake of buying a Tikka T-3 ultralight stainless steel in 30.06 about 12 years ago. The mistake was I never found a reason to buy any other hunting rifle. Flat and fast 125 gr. for antelope, deadly accurate 165 gr. Fusion for mule deer and elk, and 180 grain for moose. At < 7 lbs. with glass, it definitely needs a limb-saver, but I wouldn't trade it for anything else.
They're both great and either one could easily make the last hunting rifle you'd ever need for real world hunting.
The accessibility is a moot point in the 308, if im buying a hunting rifle i don't care if there are 20 different fmj loads or match loads, not gonna hunt with those.
How accessabile is the ammo at my local store?
Very accessible everywhere
😁 Thank You For Putting On This Series! 🥳 What I Am Hoping People Get Out Of This Is: 1.) People Realize That You Don't Need a Magnum To Kill Any North America Big Game Species (Except As Recommended For Grizzly 🐻's)! 2.) That Bullet Selection Is More Important Than Caliber - Again, "No Magnum Necessary"! 3.) That Copper Bullets Are Very Affordable, But Still Can Provide Some Of The Best And "More Than Adequate" Penetration On Big Animals! THANKS AGAIN FOR PROVIDING THESE VISUAL AIDS! GOOD JOB GUYS! 👍 WELL DONE! 👏👏👏
I purchased a new Savage weather warrior in 30-06 a couple years ago and a Leupold 3 x 9 scope to sit on top. I need to purchase base and rings still to marry the two. This podcast is just what I need to get my juices flowing again for my 06 project.
Y'all are zeroing in on a fantastic video format. The camera angles are great. A touch less background music would suit my taste better.
Keep these coming!
this 73 yr old dog has shot a lot of muley and white tail deer in my life useing cheap remington 150 grain 30-06 core-loct ammo usually from 50-150 yards.i have no problem with 308 but where i lived in north idaho and montana 06 was readily available and for less money.good vid thanks
Always a vortex fan but this series is pure genuis
Do you have a recommended round for suppressed .308 big game hunting? Something ethical, accurate and quieter than most?(Obviously not a subsonic round, but the best and quietest you can get out of all the .308 big game rounds)
Good test, but you should have used identical bullets AND bullet weights. I think you would have gotten much closer results in the gel test, with the 30.06 wound cavity being slightly larger with maybe even LESS penetration. Heavier slower bullets penetrate deeper to a point. There is no doubt in my mind that the 30.06 is superior to 308, but depending on what you're using them on any comparison could be moot, like stepping on a bug with a size 7 shoe versus a size 10 shoe.
Exact same projectiles can be shot out of both calibers but the 06’ is 100 to 200 fps faster in most loadings. So to me the 06' wins and is more versatile because it can be used for larger game with better pentration and knock down power. You can also load 110's in the 06. Heck do you guys remember the goofy 55 grain saboted 30-06 load offering? I hand load so I can bump one up a grain or two, as long as there is no signs of pressure, or download the other so both caliber’s projectiles act exactly the same. It all comes down to how accurate the caliber choice is for me. I’ll take the 06’ for hunting because I like to load the 180’s,200’s, and 220’s to maximum horsepower. I’m sure a deer couldn’t tell ant difference between the two cartridges. Guess I’m just old school and to me the 06’ has very little felt recoil. Probably because I shoot it in a 7600 and American enfield. I’m sure 5.5 pound bolt gun in 308 problem has more recoil than my heavier guns. I see you have KDF brakes on the 308 bolt gun. I use to run those when I was a kid.lol. After blowing my ear drums out I removed All of them accept on my 375 RUM. My 300 RUM doesn’t kick much more with it removed and is very manageable. I get a kick on how all the generation or two below me has to put a brake on everything…all the way down to 5.56! First thing I did in my AR10’s was remove the brakes and install thread protectors. IMO If you need a brake on anything below a magnum caliber you should be looking at a smaller caliber choice till you get use to recoil and learn not to flinch. The main reason the 308 came about is because of alot of complaints of "little" framed shooters in the military complained about the recoil of the 06' so they switched over to the 308'. I'm sure the same ones that complained about the 06' recoil were less than impressed with a 308 cartridge that only shoots 100 to 200 fps slower. Imo there's not enough noticeable recoil difference between the two calibers. Pick up a little Remington 600 in 308 and run a few rounds through it. It kicks violently vs my 7600 30-06 pump and 1917 Enfield. To me(and the military) the 308 came out for little light small framed shooters who can't handle recoil. Still a great round but not needed if you own an 06'...or go after larger game.
Would love to see the 7 Rem. Mag vs the 280AI
What about the length of the bolt on each rifle? I can shoot my 700BDL in each caliber and constantly perform faster action with the 308, could help in some hunting situations when a fast follow up shot is needed
Hopefully Mark will speak up and we get 300wsm vs 300winmag next and if not that maybe 6.5 prc vs 270win
270 Win for the Win! 😜
I have settled on a semi custom 18.5” 30/06 with a 165 sgk hp and a 208 amax. It is a killer practical rifle. #5 contour suppressor 3-9 perfect 350yard and in rifle. I like it and that’s what matters.
During the recent shortage, there were times when I couldn't find .308 anywhere. As for .30-06, even though it got to be exorbitantly expensive, I was *always* able to find it.
"Case closed" as far as I'm concerned
Actually, I found the opposite to be true where I am from. Could always find lots of .308 and no .30-06.
I prefer the .308 over the .30-06. They are both very close regarding ballistics.
@@stephenparchewski1998 I agree with .308 being better for a few reasons. Your argument is a good one for having rifles in both calibers, imo.
The rifle I purchased was only offered in .308 and not .30-06. To be perfectly honest, I don’t believe there is a true winner, but it will be interesting to hear what they say.
@@stephenparchewski1998 lol Same here, only for .30-06
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I'm watching this episode and noticed when you talked about bullet selection between the two that you must not be consisting reload options as with 30-06 there is published load data from 110 grain up to 220 grain. I have personally loaded 110 grain v max to velocity of 3400 fps and put them at times through the same hole @ 100 yds. The only beneficial difference I see in 308 is 1- less recoil 2- less powder to be used per cartridge. Both are so capable that for me it is a toss up in preference. Like your show.
308 can’t push a 215 berger hybrid at 2800+ with RL-26. 30-06 can. Game over
You can practice with .308 for cheaper than you can with 30.06.
Cheap surplus 7.62mm NATO is everywhere. However, you will still want a premium rifle using a Premium 308 load to actually hunt with though and you still should actually practice with that rifle and that load before you actually go out hunting with that specific rifle ans specific load.
@@FinalLugiaGuardian Maybe 20 years ago it was.
@@FinalLugiaGuardian if you’re a handloader thats basically a wash. You can load whatever projectile in either over a reduced charge of H4895
Good luck finding RL26 anywhere
No animal could tell the difference
Dead is dead" lighter bullets at more speed kill better and faster. Less powder to eat meat.
Depends on what's more important to you. If you weighted the categories and did a true Pugh matrix, you might get a different answer. For instance if terminal performance is what's most important to you and the rest are close, the 06 wins.
There's no way 308 should've beat the 06 in versatility. It can shoot anything the 308 can, but better.
Love the podcast, BTW. Always look forward to new episodes.
I'd say this comparison is pretty much spot on, but I would give the .308 more of an advantage in accessibility. I usually see 20 to 30 different ammo choices for .308 at a gun store versus 5 to 10 choices for .30'06. And actually the .308 Win/7.62x51 usually has the best selection of any rifle caliber, including .223/5.56. It is worth mentioning that .223/5.56 is usually more plentiful, which is different than selection. This is a recent development and was a major factor for my latest rifle to be purchased in .308 Win caliber.
I agree 100% with 4809's thoughts. I wonder if the greater availability of .308 ammo is a result of recent AR guns being offered in .308 but not in 30-06? The popularity of .308 AR PLATFORMS probably accounts for the popularity(and availability/variety) of .308 ammo.
You have a great head to head format going here.
A few ideas for upcoming projects.
450 Marlin vs 45-70
.204 vs .22-250
.243 vs 6 Creedmoor
17 Hornet vs 17 WSM
17 HMR vs .22 Mag
.17 HM2 vs .22 LR
.22 Hornet vs 17 Hornet.
7-08 vs .308
9mm- .40 SW
357 vs .44 Mag.
.338 Rum vs .338 Lapua
……….
You get the idea.😊
Wished you had tried with terminal accent. That is copper shank and bonded lead. I hear they are amazing
I love the new podcast. I would love to see you pit the 45-70 government vs 450 bushmaster vs 12 ga sabot slug
Since the drift was compared at 500 yards, the average accuracy of each cartridge becomes an issue. The 308 is generally considered more accurate than the 30-06. Determining if this is really an issue would be a big project though (it would take numerous different rifles and numerous types of ammo).
A large part of the accuracy difference is that the 308 has a more modern chamber design with a section of straight "freebore" (only 0.002" larger diameter than the bullet diameter) to help align the bullet with the bore before it hits the taper down through the rifling. The standard 30-06 chamber just has a taper to funnel the bullet down into the rifling, allowing a larger misalignment of the bullet as the rifling is engraved. This tends to increase shot-to-shot variation and slightly worse average accuracy.
It is possible to get a 30-06 with a "match chamber", but as far as I know, this means going with a custom barrel.
This is true in theory, but the fact of the matter is that 99.9% of shooters are not accurate enough to notice the difference without a test barrel and action bolted to a table.
@@danielmaine45 It depends on what the average accuracy turns out to be. I'd agree if the difference turns out to be relatively small. If the difference is significantly more than 1 MOA, however, many shooters would notice it. Note that this is in.a discussion about hunting at 500 yards which is already beyond the ability of many hunters.
You may well be right. I honestly don't know the answer which is why I would like to see the test.
Great job, but really should have had equal weight bullets for test. But I agree, both very good choices.
Oh boy! An opportunity to give my unsolicited opinion, lol. In my area, I'd say availability between the 2 results in a tie. As far as the 308 replacing 30-06 in the military, I agree with the reasoning behind it. (Please note I have no actual military experience.) For anything larger than deer, I would select 30-06 as my round of choice. Finally, I want to thank you for such a great and informative video.
Love the ten minute talks I’ve learned a lot from you guys, keep ‘em coming!
I have hunted with both. I still load both, have settled to 150gr slugs either Sierra Gamekings or Hornady. I have service rifles in both, but my 308 boltgun is almost 70 years newer than my '03A3. I have laid down everything from White Tails and Mule deer in Texas to Elk in New Mexico and a Moose in Alaska with my '03. While I have hunted all the above with my 308, I had to double tap my Moose losing a couple of dinners.
If you had split the road on slug weight to 165gr out of both rifles, you would have found the '06 much more manageable, especially if handling the weapon as you would in the field. The only two things I use a bench for are zeroing and cleaning. You are doing firearm reviews. I am taking on faith that you can actually fire a rifle offhand and hit the target at 100yds.
Again, I own both, but I think y'all let your prejudices dictate your outcome because load data doesn't lie. There is only a couple of grains difference in charge weight between the two calibers using like slugs.
I've been reloading for 30+ years. I own both 30.06 and .308. Your all wet when it comes to bullet availability! They use the same bullet dimeter! Anything you can shoot out of a .308 you can shoot out of a 30.06! You are right about one thing, and that is the 30.06 shines through with the heavy bullets. The only reason the military went to the .308 was to save weight!
and make fully automatic shooting more accurate in order to compete with the AK-47 and more effective to stay on target in full auto with a shorter case, less recoil(and quicker lock time) but higher pressure capacity(for similar ballistics)
Using both to hunt axis deer here in Texas, I would choose 30.06 in a heart beat. I just like to switch it up, more often then not with good shots the deer run further with .308.
The .308 with a 220gr bullet can be loaded for sub-sonic more easily, which is something I want to play with, and see videos on, but the new bullets in 30-06 give me a renewed interest in getting one. The new 30-06 bullets get the long range capability way beyond the range that I can even access to shoot, and and the platform still has pretty good bullet availability, and versatility all the way from Moose down to varmint. BCA has an upper in 30-06 that would mitigate the 22.66 FP of recoil. I need that gun like I need another.. hold on. checking my bank account.
Holy cow, y’all did it again! Can’t wait to see results..😃👍
The guns shoot the same exact projectiles, one cartridge has a little more powder, which is to say speed. That is IT. You could reload the .308 up a smidge, and the -06 down a smidge, and could make the 308 perform better. There is nothing magical about a specific cartridge. I know most people know this.
At 13 years of age, I took my first deer, a 4 point whitetail (I just looked over and to see the 40 year old rack) anyway, took it with a 30/30. It went down like I had pulled a rug out from under it. I still hunt with it every year, depending on the woods I'm hunting. My next fav rifle is a MilSurp .308. I bought it half sporterized, so I finished the job. God, I love that rifle. I took the big clunky mag off and my son 3-D printed an insert, so I use it as a single shot. No scope. I can hit a 5 gallon bucket at 75 yards, with 4 out of five shots. Got it tuned in right where I want it, with the ammo it likes.
I had a 270 bolt, synthetic stock, Remington 700 with a Leupold scope. Sold it. VERY nice gun. Just was too much gun for what I do.
I was joking about 308. Standing, with iron sights, with one hand rest, I can make a group about the size of a Mason Jar lid, or at least cover with one hand. Prone with sandbags helps.
I do have a Savage 7mm/08 with a scope for low light conditions.
Anywho... TLDR
Loving this new format!!!
You should do a 30-30 vs 45-70 out of some lever actions. Would love to see how the two match up!
As a shooting instructor, I see new shooters and Vomen with brand new 30-06 rifles, but the .308win would have been a better place for them to start because they don't shoot well with the 30-06 because of the extra recoil - and to master the 30-06 they need a suppressor or a muzzle brake. And I get a little pissed off every time because of all the bad advising new shooters get on rifles and shooting, both from other shooters and from the salesmen in the store - too many people who think they know it all and are not able to judge the needs and limitations of the new shooter. But the versatility that the 30-06 has is superb - can you handle the caliber then I think it is the perfect all-round rifle. I don't shoot it myself, but I stick to the "little brother" 270win instead....and use the 9,3x62 when I want a heavier bullet. Great video and great to see how the copper bullets behaved.
I have a 7mm rem mag. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Special Edition. I have never been happy with it as far as shoot accuracy. I used to shoot a 303 British, and it was a great rifle all around. I was always pushing my shots too far. I never lost an animal but wanted something with a little more power for elk and moose. I've been comparing 308 and 30.06. I think the 30.06 would suit me best. Can you tell me what model is best. I'm looking at 400 to 700 yard shots.
Great video! Hope you could do an episode comparing the 260 Remington and the 6.5 Creedmoor. Maybe a 300 RUM vs a 300 PRC.
I think you used the wrong criteria for "accessibility". For me, it would be how readily I can find suitable ammo on the dealer shelves/websites when I need to buy ammo. THAT'S how "accessible" the ammo is. From what I see around my area (Kansas), it's close to a toss-up, with the -06 possibly having the same slight advantage in MY test that the .308 had in yours.
Thoughts on 45-70 and other big thumping cartridges shooting all copper. Will the slower speeds still expand?
I want to know if the 308 is good enough to use on big game hunting like Bison, Bear, and Moose for example.
Yes it is! 👍😁
I saw show a few years back a guy took a bison with a 30-30.
Bison can get to 3,500 lbs, here in Montana, and one was documented to have reached about 3,900 lbs! Thus, that and the Grizzly Bear are the only 2 Animals that I will be reaching for my 30-06 over my 270 Winchester! A Nice 200 Swift A-Frame for them too! 🐂
I handload for both so availability of different loads is whatever I want to build. This season it's 30-06 130gr Barnes TTSX at the speed of God
What speeds are you pushing it at?
@@D_Boone book has it at 31-3200. Haven't chrono'd it yet
Great video guys 👍🏻 ever thought about doing the tried and true 243 vs the new kid on the block, the 22 Creedmoor?
Can we get a 7mm show down, 7mm-08 vs 7x57mm vs .280 AI?
I love both . 308 wi s for me purely because it was the round I shot my first deer with .. other then that I'd take either 1 any day
How about 308 versus 7 mm '08? I have both and my 7 mm '08 has always outperformed my 308. Would like to see what the test would show