Re. the design credit, publisher has outlined in a BGG thread as follows- "Black Forest is mostly a Rosenberg design. Uwe showed me [the publisher] this game in 2012!, but we decided to go with the "smaller" design of Glass Road at that time. While Glass Road was published soon after in 2013, Black Forest was waiting on our shelf for quite a while. In it's original design, Black Forest had a similar action selection mechanism as Glass Road (specialist cards). While we liked this mechanism a lot for the little brother Glass Road, we wanted something different for Black Forest. And that is the point where Tido came in: He transformed the specialist cards into the village layout with the travel aspect."
this is so much better. Now you feel to be part of the video, since you don't have to interact with the final thoughts, while stil taking a look to the actual gameplay.
I way prefer having it all in one video. The RUclips chapter markers make is super easy to jump around, so once you've got a good idea of the gameplay you can very simply jump to the final thoughts. This new format might also help people to watch the runthrough instead of just jumping to the final thoughts.
I like this format of the final thoughts in a single video with the runthrough. As for the dummy: 1) Could you just roll a D17 (since there are 17 main spaces/towns) and move the dummy player to that location either: a) whenever you would normally move him? or b) maybe after each player takes a turn, or something like that? 2) Could you use a Glen More die (1,1,1,2,2,3) and move the dummy clockwise 1-3 spaces either: a) whenever you would normally move him? or b) maybe after each player takes a turn, or something like that? 3) Could you always move him exactly 2 (or maybe exactly 3 or exactly 4) spaces after every player takes a turn (using that same number of spaces [either 2 or 3 or 4] each time for the whole game)? This would eliminate all luck, and his movement could be planned for accordingly the entire game. I know you generally hate house rules, but I was just thinking of some options here. Yes, I also know the die roll could be swingy, but isn't that at least better than intentionally being mean? Anyway, I have been waiting for this for like 10 or 12 years, so of course I will still get this (it is already pre-ordered, and it should be here in just a few more weeks!)
Why not just bin the dummy entirely? It doesn't seem needed at all! You still pay to move and pay to enter the opponents city, that is more than enough payments needed. Just let people use the travelling salesmen like usual, but no neutral player to move after.
you could totally drop the dummy, yes, but the game would be "looser" and you'd generally have more resources than you're supposed to, and that might throw the balance off, which is something i'd always be worried about. my preferred solution is to change the rules of "when you enter a town with your opponent, give them a resource" to "when you enter a town with your opponent _OR AN ADJACENT TOWN_ give them a resource" :)
@@rahdo Not sure the balance would be off though, just means both players would have a little more resources, so could accomplish a little more during the game? Doesn't sound a bad thing at all! Your alternate idea is ok but it's extra rules to keep track of. Makes a difference for me as I play mainly 2P and we wouldn't like the neutral 'toll' player either, I'm considering this game as really like the look of it otherwise, just hope it wouldn't imbalance the game binning the neutral guy. If you get a chance to try it without, please share how it went!
I'm a big fan of the all-in-one videos. I like to jump to the very end to get an idea of whether or not unlikely to enjoy the game, and therefore whether or not I want to invest the time in the full video.
Honestly, whatever is easier for you to manage behind the scenes. So long as there is time stamp in the video to find your final thoughts two separate videos and chapters seems like the same difference. Thank you for your continued passion for gaming and producing content, Richard!
I have gotten used to your two video format, and I like it. I also like this format. It's really easy to use with chapters, and this way I don't have to click around for links as much. I think I prefer this way.
I didn't enjoy Glass road because of the cards and because somehow the random buildings I couldn't see how to chain well. This looks like a much better game for me for action selection. Having the buildings ordered in the way you say will probably help! I like the one video format better btw!
#52:15 when paying resources, you can split them between the two discs. it's only when GAINING a resource, you have to take it all on one wheel (top right corner of page 4)
Thanks a lot for your video on this one Mr Richard. I was waiting for your playthrough for this game so I could comprehend this game easily. Love and respect from India. Take care and thank you again.
From a solo perspective (my personal opinion), playing offensive just adds to the challenge without feeling the guilt. Stabbing the bot with a letter opener feels fine to me 😀. Thanks for the playthrough Rahdo, I really missed this format.
Given the choice, one video with chapters is my preference. This game looks really good. As you pointed out, Glass Road had the 'get in the head of your opponent stuff' which killed it for me as I play a lot of these games two handed. So, I'm excited by the changes in Black Forest. This is a definite buy for me. Thanks for the runthrough!
My vote goes for "use the tools that the platform provides". ie use chapters. It's easier to find the chapter that you want than find the separate video (plus it reduces "clutter" in my subscriptions)
1) Single video is the way to go, especially if it's less work for you 2) Doubt that we would mind the 2p rules, and we'd likely adopt your house rule by making players pay to move "through" an occupied location 3) Wouldn't replace our beloved Glass Road because it was the game we got to play with Jen all those years ago in Seattle 4) I've been away for a bit - first time seeing you in full-time spectacle mode. They look good, and I hope they are making it easier to focus on things! Gotta take care of those eyeballs!!!
nice, i like just one video instead of splitting it up. thanks for the video, i am a Uwe fan !! , looking out for nusfjord Big Box, one of the games i still need to have in my collection and waited getting because of this version coming soon. hopefully Kanal will be available too (new edition of oranienburger kanal)
typically a runthrough plus extended plus final thoughts comes out to 50-80 minutes all totla, so that's typically how long a 'all in one' video would be :)
A bit shallow perhaps, but I *REALLY* like that box art. This is looking like a really great game. I was never particularly taken with Glass Road but always liked the resource wheels. It will be nice to seem them reimplemented. I prefer this single video format fwiw.
When you listed your top 3 Rosenburg which matched mine, I thought it's well worth hearing your thoughts on this one! (How cool is the front box art though!)
@@rahdo perhaps due to also mainly playing with my wife so those are particularly 2 player positive? I also prefer tight games to bloated points. Glassroads arguably now most played of the three as sub hour means lots of chances! My brain enjoys the Hallertau struggle, and agricola is just the boss really haha.
Pedantically, the yellow resource is sand, not potash (just thematic detail; doesn't change anything mechanically). I'm also fairly certain "potash", even though the pot part of the word comes from Potassium, is pronounced like pot (rhymes with lot/cot/etc), not a long O like boat (maybe it's regional or pronounced both way). No harm though; and thanks for the 2p runthrough
@rahdo (and others who have played) given your plays at the two player count, could resources be tightened by doubling the fee to enter the same town, in lieu of using the neutral meeple?
that's not a bad idea! at this point though, my feeling is that the best variant is to change the current rule from "pay your oppoent when you move into their town" to "pay your opponent when you move into their town _or a town adjacent to that one_ " :)
Love the format. I'd go with whichever is easier if it were me. Might be more streamlined to have a single video. Will you continue 'extended play'? This game looks great. Different enough from glass road and looks awesome
nope, extended play originated because the original idea was to have 2 "shortish" videos (the runthrough and the final thoughts) and one longer vid (the extended), and all 3 of them combined would be maybe 70 or 80 min. so now all of that would just be one video
In the youtube search results, I almost didn't watch your video because it was over an hour. In the end I'm glad I did because of the way you organized it, I could skip to the end and see your final thoughts on the game. However, you might loose some viewers with the length of the combined videos.
yup, this is likely going to be a very unfortuante side effect of making this change, but everyone voted OVERWHELMINGLY in favor, so give the audience what it wants! :)
I like the separated video for the final thoughts, but you can just leave this one with both things, and duplicate into a separate video the final thoughts
Thanks for the awesome video...as always! I like the new (old) format of all in 1 video. So happy to be playing mostly at 3 players and solo!Do you think the solo game would also suffer from the changes if you had the chance to try it? Love Glass Road solo but it can be frustrating with the card drawing randomness... Any thoughts?
the solo game is VERY different than the competitive game and doesn't need any changes i think. basically the way it works is you get all 5 workers of the 5 player colors, they are set up to play in a specific order (black, red, blue, etc.) and then you in that order activate them to move around the board to do what you want to do, and you've got a fixed number of rounds to do as much as you can. very different feel!
I feel like I just won’t use the dummy player in a 2-player game. It’s only one resource that you give up, and doesn’t feel like it will influence the game much at all, just shoehorned in interaction.
Interresting game, i'll look at it for sure. I visited the Black Forest region with my girlfriend 20 years ago during a trip in Germany, very nice place! She'll certainly be interested in the game too because of this theme. Is there any reference to Cuckoo Clocks? BTW, I really like this new format of video.
I'm a fan of the chapters format for videos in general. Shame the game doesn't work as well at 2. I'm not a fan of "take that" in Euros either. However, my play group is usually 3 or 4. Wonder if it was just designed with higher player counts in mind 🤔 thus the need to simulate another player at 2. I like the rule you came up with as a fix or maybe have the dummy player just moves randomly every round with a die roll. I suppose for 2 there's always Le Havre.
I preffer one movie better. About „dummie player” the game forces You to move it, „attacking” other player is Your choice only. With 5 locations I believe ther’s a place where it wouldn’t harm anybody😊
Nice review. I love everything apart from the red neutral player too. Doesn't seem necessary at all, there's enough to paying provisions to move as is. I'm sure if I get the game we will never use that, and don't see any downside or reasons not to bin it and never have it on the board. I wouldn't hate the game for that reason, it's great otherwise so just don't use it!
if you don't do it or soemthing similar, you will on average have more resources on hand than otherwise should, and i'd be worried about throwing the balance off...
If you can easily identify where the neutral meeple could go to harm your opponent, couldn't you easily just choose to place it where it won't harm your opponent? If you particularly don't like that.
my wife and i always want to play at peak efficiency, and if a game requires us to be aggressive towards each other to do that, than we'd rather play something else :)
I 100% get your gripe with the take-that of the 2p-rules, but I don't think your proposed change would work. That rule would only ever apply on the cities on the left of the board. The city at the top and the two on the right all have ways of just moving past them via different routes.
good point (i didn't really think too hard about this tbh). I guess instead the rule could be that you drop the neutral player and have to pay your opponent if you go to the town they're in, or an adjacent town.
Sorry I have not gone through the rulebook yet. But is there something stopping the other player from moving the neutral worker before making their move? Thereby negating its effect?
the only thing that lets you move the worker is spending the commodity to trigger the thing, so no matter what it's a tax i place on you. Either you pay a commodity to move it out of the way (ideally into my way), or you pay a resource when you enter the town.
@@rahdobut then you paid a tax to move that worker to block the other player in the first place? So you pay a tax, move to block, they pay a tax move out of the way to block you. Seems like a mechanism to ensure players don’t neglect commodities? Or am I not understanding that right?
the thing is, i likely paid the tax not because i wanted to move the neutral worker and "attack" you. i pay the commodity to adjust the location of the wandering merchant. this is a core part of the game at any player count, and it's something i'll likely do a few times in the game to maximize my VP. unfortunately, in the 2p game, when i do this, i must ALSO move the neutral player (the rules are clear, i am forced to do this), and so at this time, i have to make a strategic decision of how best to deploy it, and since it's only purpose is to hurt you (my opponent), i should make that move accordingly. so when i paid to get the traveling salesman to visit me so i could get the resources i need to build something, i didn't want to also have to attack you, but in 2p i must. and it's awful imo...
@@rahdo I see what you mean. Based on your experience would doing something like a dice roll or draw a card with location to move the neutral player fix this? I’m just thinking maybe they’ll try to do something about this in the expansion or even errata?
i think random chooser would unfairly benefit one player over another, and it's not needed anyway because you can simply remove it from the game, and say that players who move through other players have to pay. that tightens up the board, creats the same "waiting for you to get out of the way" effect as higher player counts, is an easier rule to use, and has no aggression built in.
Stupid RUclips changed the thing. "There's links on the screen of other stuff." No there's not. There was two minutes ago. RUclips, stop covering up the end of videos. I'll decide what to watch after I'm done watching this one, not during it.
yeah, youtube is really buggy with those end screen things. i often find on lots of videos that if they're supposed to appear but they don't, that i have to pause and then unpause to make them appear. in my case, this happens because i'm playing at 2x speed
I quite disliked Glass Road back when I first played it 4p, tried it again on BGA 2p and still dislike it due to the cards mechanism. This one though looks waaay more up my alley.
@@rahdo indeed. I love the level of interaction in it, the setup AND in-game variability (moving tiles around, revealing job tiles), even the player driven end game which is not usual Uwe stuff.
You do, but as someone who also loves Glass Road and feels apprehensive about Black Forest for the reasons Rahdo mentioned: In Glass Road, you pick a matching card because you want to benefit off the card without spending your own action playing it. You just happen to also reduce the other player's efficiency, which encourages them to be less predictable. You don't have enough card-picks in Glass Road to waste them on "hate drafting" your opponent's actions. Here, the only reason to move the dummy to a specific town is to hurt your opponent.
Since I watch both it makes not a big difference for me (it is slightly convenient to put one video in the watchlst and not both). Does it impact the YT algorithm if less videos are released?
no one knows for sure because youtube is so tight lipped, but there's a lot of speculation that a channel that posts more than 1 video a day gets less suggestions opportunities on the platform. but otoh, chances are seeing an hour+ long video on their feed makes a lot of folks skip by without clicking. so as always, it's tough to say :)
Could not disagree more with the assertion that putting influence on cards ruining the South Tigris games. More competitive? Sure. If you don’t like that fine, but it works very well in those games for what it sets out to do. Why would you “feel like a jerk” making a move that makes it harder for your opponent to win? That should be the goal of every single move.
i can very much asure you that it does ruin the game... _for us_ which is what i was talking about in the video. and if you'd like a more thorough answer to your final question, check out faq.rahdo.com #6 :)
for MANY people, this game will be a huge step up from Glass Road which they found to be very disappointing, and the tile is referring to that, since i talked about this specifically in the final thoughts :)
I like this format better, it makes it also easier to navigate the channel if you have one video for a specific boardgame instead of two or three.
Like this format better Richard! Been watching your videos since 2015. Thank you for helping me decide which games are right for me for so many years!
Re. the design credit, publisher has outlined in a BGG thread as follows-
"Black Forest is mostly a Rosenberg design. Uwe showed me [the publisher] this game in 2012!, but we decided to go with the "smaller" design of Glass Road at that time. While Glass Road was published soon after in 2013, Black Forest was waiting on our shelf for quite a while. In it's original design, Black Forest had a similar action selection mechanism as Glass Road (specialist cards). While we liked this mechanism a lot for the little brother Glass Road, we wanted something different for Black Forest. And that is the point where Tido came in: He transformed the specialist cards into the village layout with the travel aspect."
well then, sounds similar to what i was guessing with Tido driving the major change to the game: replacing card play with a new board game :)
I think this format is better. There is one entry and I have all the information in one video. Thank you for your excellent work over the years!
I think a single video is nice. More chapters would be nice, splitting up the preamble, game description, gameplay, and thoughts
this is so much better. Now you feel to be part of the video, since you don't have to interact with the final thoughts, while stil taking a look to the actual gameplay.
I like having everything in one video. Thanks for showing off solo when you can and sharing your thoughts 💕
I way prefer having it all in one video.
The RUclips chapter markers make is super easy to jump around, so once you've got a good idea of the gameplay you can very simply jump to the final thoughts.
This new format might also help people to watch the runthrough instead of just jumping to the final thoughts.
I like this format of the final thoughts in a single video with the runthrough.
As for the dummy:
1) Could you just roll a D17 (since there are 17 main spaces/towns) and move the dummy player to that location either:
a) whenever you would normally move him? or
b) maybe after each player takes a turn, or something like that?
2) Could you use a Glen More die (1,1,1,2,2,3) and move the dummy clockwise 1-3 spaces either:
a) whenever you would normally move him? or
b) maybe after each player takes a turn, or something like that?
3) Could you always move him exactly 2 (or maybe exactly 3 or exactly 4) spaces after every player takes a turn (using that same number of spaces [either 2 or 3 or 4] each time for the whole game)? This would eliminate all luck, and his movement could be planned for accordingly the entire game.
I know you generally hate house rules, but I was just thinking of some options here. Yes, I also know the die roll could be swingy, but isn't that at least better than intentionally being mean?
Anyway, I have been waiting for this for like 10 or 12 years, so of course I will still get this (it is already pre-ordered, and it should be here in just a few more weeks!)
Exactly what i was thinking. Could be easily fixed by a house rule.
Great suggestions! I like the idea of using the Glen More die. Should reduce downtime as well ❤
Why not just bin the dummy entirely? It doesn't seem needed at all! You still pay to move and pay to enter the opponents city, that is more than enough payments needed. Just let people use the travelling salesmen like usual, but no neutral player to move after.
you could totally drop the dummy, yes, but the game would be "looser" and you'd generally have more resources than you're supposed to, and that might throw the balance off, which is something i'd always be worried about.
my preferred solution is to change the rules of "when you enter a town with your opponent, give them a resource" to "when you enter a town with your opponent _OR AN ADJACENT TOWN_ give them a resource" :)
@@rahdo Not sure the balance would be off though, just means both players would have a little more resources, so could accomplish a little more during the game? Doesn't sound a bad thing at all! Your alternate idea is ok but it's extra rules to keep track of.
Makes a difference for me as I play mainly 2P and we wouldn't like the neutral 'toll' player either, I'm considering this game as really like the look of it otherwise, just hope it wouldn't imbalance the game binning the neutral guy. If you get a chance to try it without, please share how it went!
i agree that this is a better format, and it will lead to easier navigation of your channel. Thanks for all of the reviews!
I'm a big fan of the all-in-one videos. I like to jump to the very end to get an idea of whether or not unlikely to enjoy the game, and therefore whether or not I want to invest the time in the full video.
Honestly, whatever is easier for you to manage behind the scenes. So long as there is time stamp in the video to find your final thoughts two separate videos and chapters seems like the same difference. Thank you for your continued passion for gaming and producing content, Richard!
I agree, splitting into chapters works well. I appreciate the content so whatever is the least work for you gets my vote.
I have gotten used to your two video format, and I like it. I also like this format. It's really easy to use with chapters, and this way I don't have to click around for links as much. I think I prefer this way.
This format is way better.
I didn't enjoy Glass road because of the cards and because somehow the random buildings I couldn't see how to chain well. This looks like a much better game for me for action selection. Having the buildings ordered in the way you say will probably help!
I like the one video format better btw!
#52:15 when paying resources, you can split them between the two discs. it's only when GAINING a resource, you have to take it all on one wheel (top right corner of page 4)
argh, i can't believe i switcherooed that in my head. ok thanks will clean that up :)
Thanks a lot for your video on this one Mr Richard. I was waiting for your playthrough for this game so I could comprehend this game easily. Love and respect from India. Take care and thank you again.
Love the combined!
I like having all your thoughts in one video! Thanks for all your do!
From a solo perspective (my personal opinion), playing offensive just adds to the challenge without feeling the guilt. Stabbing the bot with a letter opener feels fine to me 😀. Thanks for the playthrough Rahdo, I really missed this format.
Given the choice, one video with chapters is my preference.
This game looks really good. As you pointed out, Glass Road had the 'get in the head of your opponent stuff' which killed it for me as I play a lot of these games two handed. So, I'm excited by the changes in Black Forest. This is a definite buy for me. Thanks for the runthrough!
I like this format better!
Love this way, all content in 1 video.
One video to rule them all, and in darkness bind them.
My vote goes for "use the tools that the platform provides". ie use chapters. It's easier to find the chapter that you want than find the separate video (plus it reduces "clutter" in my subscriptions)
this format is the best
One video runthrough + final thoughts with a time stamps. I am in.😀
Re 16:45 : Ora et Labora came out first, but those wheels function very differently. The automatic conversion wheel is original to Glass Road
You're right, chapters make it easy to navigate. I much prefer this single vid format!
One video with everything is the best 👍😊 Thanks for your thoughts. This is a must buy for me.
I am beyond excited for this! :D
1) Single video is the way to go, especially if it's less work for you
2) Doubt that we would mind the 2p rules, and we'd likely adopt your house rule by making players pay to move "through" an occupied location
3) Wouldn't replace our beloved Glass Road because it was the game we got to play with Jen all those years ago in Seattle
4) I've been away for a bit - first time seeing you in full-time spectacle mode. They look good, and I hope they are making it easier to focus on things! Gotta take care of those eyeballs!!!
I like this new format - thanks!
This is better, everything in one video.
nice, i like just one video instead of splitting it up.
thanks for the video, i am a Uwe fan !! , looking out for nusfjord Big Box, one of the games i still need to have in my collection and waited getting because of this version coming soon.
hopefully Kanal will be available too (new edition of oranienburger kanal)
I like the one video a lot!
I prefer the single video with chapters format
Potash is pronounced like it’s two constituent words…pot+ash. Potassium is derived from potash, both the word and the chemical element.
One video with chapters is perfect
I like having the one video with chapters
As long as there is a time stamp, I love this format! How will you handle “extended play”?
Either way, love the new format.
typically a runthrough plus extended plus final thoughts comes out to 50-80 minutes all totla, so that's typically how long a 'all in one' video would be :)
A bit shallow perhaps, but I *REALLY* like that box art.
This is looking like a really great game. I was never particularly taken with Glass Road but always liked the resource wheels. It will be nice to seem them reimplemented.
I prefer this single video format fwiw.
Wow Richard, that was venomous at the end, you were really agitated
it happens sometimes :)
I prefer this format much better.
I love Glass Road, one of the best euro games of all time
agreed! :)
When you listed your top 3 Rosenburg which matched mine, I thought it's well worth hearing your thoughts on this one! (How cool is the front box art though!)
wow that is far out... i couldn't imagine anyone sharing that top 3. glad to know i'm not alone :)
@@rahdo perhaps due to also mainly playing with my wife so those are particularly 2 player positive? I also prefer tight games to bloated points. Glassroads arguably now most played of the three as sub hour means lots of chances! My brain enjoys the Hallertau struggle, and agricola is just the boss really haha.
@@nikkirohlfing6583 i dont like being aggressive against anyone while playing to be honest :)
@@rahdo yeah, similar here. accidental blocking is fine as good to adjust tactics, but not malicious outright stuff :)
Pedantically, the yellow resource is sand, not potash (just thematic detail; doesn't change anything mechanically). I'm also fairly certain "potash", even though the pot part of the word comes from Potassium, is pronounced like pot (rhymes with lot/cot/etc), not a long O like boat (maybe it's regional or pronounced both way). No harm though; and thanks for the 2p runthrough
tbh i just liked saying "potash" :)
@@rahdo You're probably close enough to Canada that the pronunciation just osmotically seeped in...like the way "pro-cess" is pronounced up there.
@rahdo (and others who have played) given your plays at the two player count, could resources be tightened by doubling the fee to enter the same town, in lieu of using the neutral meeple?
that's not a bad idea! at this point though, my feeling is that the best variant is to change the current rule from "pay your oppoent when you move into their town" to "pay your opponent when you move into their town _or a town adjacent to that one_ " :)
@@rahdo Thx! I will try that sugesstoin as I recently received the game and likely only will be playing at the two player count.
Thanks. It did remind me of Glass Road.
I like the one video idea :)
Single video is much better!
Prefer one video with chapters. Sometimes my viewer doesn’t give me the icon to jump to the other video it’s a struggle.
Love the format. I'd go with whichever is easier if it were me. Might be more streamlined to have a single video. Will you continue 'extended play'?
This game looks great. Different enough from glass road and looks awesome
nope, extended play originated because the original idea was to have 2 "shortish" videos (the runthrough and the final thoughts) and one longer vid (the extended), and all 3 of them combined would be maybe 70 or 80 min. so now all of that would just be one video
@@rahdo cool, I personally prefer this (one video ) 🙌😁
@@rahdoohhhhh, I finally finished the video....I'm a little sad about the two player implementation. Reminds me of Caylus style mess up others
In the youtube search results, I almost didn't watch your video because it was over an hour. In the end I'm glad I did because of the way you organized it, I could skip to the end and see your final thoughts on the game. However, you might loose some viewers with the length of the combined videos.
yup, this is likely going to be a very unfortuante side effect of making this change, but everyone voted OVERWHELMINGLY in favor, so give the audience what it wants! :)
I vote for the new way ... one video with chapters
I like the separated video for the final thoughts, but you can just leave this one with both things, and duplicate into a separate video the final thoughts
One video is great! Except with YT you never know if they will decided to get rid of the features you like lol.
that is a very good point!
Thanks for the awesome video...as always! I like the new (old) format of all in 1 video. So happy to be playing mostly at 3 players and solo!Do you think the solo game would also suffer from the changes if you had the chance to try it? Love Glass Road solo but it can be frustrating with the card drawing randomness... Any thoughts?
the solo game is VERY different than the competitive game and doesn't need any changes i think. basically the way it works is you get all 5 workers of the 5 player colors, they are set up to play in a specific order (black, red, blue, etc.) and then you in that order activate them to move around the board to do what you want to do, and you've got a fixed number of rounds to do as much as you can. very different feel!
Thank you so much for rhe answer! You are awesome! Thanks!
I feel like I just won’t use the dummy player in a 2-player game. It’s only one resource that you give up, and doesn’t feel like it will influence the game much at all, just shoehorned in interaction.
Interresting game, i'll look at it for sure. I visited the Black Forest region with my girlfriend 20 years ago during a trip in Germany, very nice place! She'll certainly be interested in the game too because of this theme. Is there any reference to Cuckoo Clocks?
BTW, I really like this new format of video.
in the solo mode, the round tracker is a very cute little cuckoo clock meeple :)
@@rahdo awesome!
Another vote for single videos :)
This format is easier for me. Sometimes with the device I'm on the gameplay and final thoughts are not always together.
All one video 😊
Speaking personally, I prefer the "all in one" format.
One Video!
Combined is great
I'm a fan of the chapters format for videos in general. Shame the game doesn't work as well at 2. I'm not a fan of "take that" in Euros either. However, my play group is usually 3 or 4. Wonder if it was just designed with higher player counts in mind 🤔 thus the need to simulate another player at 2. I like the rule you came up with as a fix or maybe have the dummy player just moves randomly every round with a die roll. I suppose for 2 there's always Le Havre.
i think the random factor would end up harming one player more than another through luck...
2 in one is great to me at least
I prefer one video
This is the way.
i have spoken :)
I prefer one video.
I prefer one video.
Single video is preferred
I preffer one movie better.
About „dummie player” the game forces You to move it, „attacking” other player is Your choice only. With 5 locations I believe ther’s a place where it wouldn’t harm anybody😊
Nice review. I love everything apart from the red neutral player too. Doesn't seem necessary at all, there's enough to paying provisions to move as is. I'm sure if I get the game we will never use that, and don't see any downside or reasons not to bin it and never have it on the board. I wouldn't hate the game for that reason, it's great otherwise so just don't use it!
if you don't do it or soemthing similar, you will on average have more resources on hand than otherwise should, and i'd be worried about throwing the balance off...
@@rahdo Yeah just seen your reply and replied above
If you can easily identify where the neutral meeple could go to harm your opponent, couldn't you easily just choose to place it where it won't harm your opponent? If you particularly don't like that.
my wife and i always want to play at peak efficiency, and if a game requires us to be aggressive towards each other to do that, than we'd rather play something else :)
I 100% get your gripe with the take-that of the 2p-rules, but I don't think your proposed change would work. That rule would only ever apply on the cities on the left of the board. The city at the top and the two on the right all have ways of just moving past them via different routes.
good point (i didn't really think too hard about this tbh). I guess instead the rule could be that you drop the neutral player and have to pay your opponent if you go to the town they're in, or an adjacent town.
Vastly prefer the single video.
Sorry I have not gone through the rulebook yet. But is there something stopping the other player from moving the neutral worker before making their move? Thereby negating its effect?
the only thing that lets you move the worker is spending the commodity to trigger the thing, so no matter what it's a tax i place on you. Either you pay a commodity to move it out of the way (ideally into my way), or you pay a resource when you enter the town.
@@rahdobut then you paid a tax to move that worker to block the other player in the first place? So you pay a tax, move to block, they pay a tax move out of the way to block you. Seems like a mechanism to ensure players don’t neglect commodities? Or am I not understanding that right?
the thing is, i likely paid the tax not because i wanted to move the neutral worker and "attack" you. i pay the commodity to adjust the location of the wandering merchant. this is a core part of the game at any player count, and it's something i'll likely do a few times in the game to maximize my VP.
unfortunately, in the 2p game, when i do this, i must ALSO move the neutral player (the rules are clear, i am forced to do this), and so at this time, i have to make a strategic decision of how best to deploy it, and since it's only purpose is to hurt you (my opponent), i should make that move accordingly.
so when i paid to get the traveling salesman to visit me so i could get the resources i need to build something, i didn't want to also have to attack you, but in 2p i must. and it's awful imo...
@@rahdo I see what you mean. Based on your experience would doing something like a dice roll or draw a card with location to move the neutral player fix this? I’m just thinking maybe they’ll try to do something about this in the expansion or even errata?
i think random chooser would unfairly benefit one player over another, and it's not needed anyway because you can simply remove it from the game, and say that players who move through other players have to pay. that tightens up the board, creats the same "waiting for you to get out of the way" effect as higher player counts, is an easier rule to use, and has no aggression built in.
Stupid RUclips changed the thing.
"There's links on the screen of other stuff."
No there's not. There was two minutes ago.
RUclips, stop covering up the end of videos. I'll decide what to watch after I'm done watching this one, not during it.
yeah, youtube is really buggy with those end screen things. i often find on lots of videos that if they're supposed to appear but they don't, that i have to pause and then unpause to make them appear.
in my case, this happens because i'm playing at 2x speed
I quite disliked Glass Road back when I first played it 4p, tried it again on BGA 2p and still dislike it due to the cards mechanism. This one though looks waaay more up my alley.
i am certain a LOT of folks share your sentiment, and this is the glass road you've been looking for! :)
@@rahdo indeed. I love the level of interaction in it, the setup AND in-game variability (moving tiles around, revealing job tiles), even the player driven end game which is not usual Uwe stuff.
I definitely prefer the single video. Less clutter
Don't you reduce the other players actions in Glass road and not just piggy back off them? That feels a little mean too I would have thought.
You do, but as someone who also loves Glass Road and feels apprehensive about Black Forest for the reasons Rahdo mentioned: In Glass Road, you pick a matching card because you want to benefit off the card without spending your own action playing it. You just happen to also reduce the other player's efficiency, which encourages them to be less predictable. You don't have enough card-picks in Glass Road to waste them on "hate drafting" your opponent's actions. Here, the only reason to move the dummy to a specific town is to hurt your opponent.
Since I watch both it makes not a big difference for me (it is slightly convenient to put one video in the watchlst and not both). Does it impact the YT algorithm if less videos are released?
no one knows for sure because youtube is so tight lipped, but there's a lot of speculation that a channel that posts more than 1 video a day gets less suggestions opportunities on the platform. but otoh, chances are seeing an hour+ long video on their feed makes a lot of folks skip by without clicking.
so as always, it's tough to say :)
I like one video
One video please.
One video is better.
If you hate spiteful moves in games you must abhor Puerto Rico 😅
i'd much rather play roll for the galaxy :)
Could not disagree more with the assertion that putting influence on cards ruining the South Tigris games. More competitive? Sure. If you don’t like that fine, but it works very well in those games for what it sets out to do. Why would you “feel like a jerk” making a move that makes it harder for your opponent to win? That should be the goal of every single move.
i can very much asure you that it does ruin the game... _for us_
which is what i was talking about in the video.
and if you'd like a more thorough answer to your final question,
check out faq.rahdo.com #6 :)
“Pot-ash”, not “Po-tash”
First occurrence at 11:10
but poh-tash is so much more fun to say! :)
DISLIKE for the "fix" Glass Road in the title
for MANY people, this game will be a huge step up from Glass Road which they found to be very disappointing, and the tile is referring to that, since i talked about this specifically in the final thoughts :)
Tired of Uwe (and others) doing knockoffs of their previous games.
great game design, art, evething great...one bit of cutthroat thing, WORST game ever....thats rahdo for ya.
that's so rahdo!