Charles Barkley vs. Warriors 1994 Playoffs Game 3
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2024
- After making it to the finals in Charles Barkley's first year with the team in 1993, the Suns were one of the favorites to win the crown in the first post-Jordan year of 1994. They struggled through a somewhat difficult 56-26 season that placed them third in the West behind Seattle and Houston, and put them in a first-round matchup against the dangerous Golden State Warriors.
The first two games of the series were close Phoenix wins, but Game 3 was in Golden State, and the Suns remembered how they fell behind 0-2 against the Lakers the previous season before rallying for the win. In particular, Charles Barkley remembered this, and was determined to end the Warriors season as soon as possible.
Barkley came out with a vengeance, scoring 27 first-quarter points on his way to a 56-point outing, as the Suns won a wildly entertaining game to advance to the next round.
Despite the loss, Golden State was supposed to have a bright future, thanks to the return of Tim Hardaway, the continued maturation of youngsters Chris Webber and Latrell Sprewell, and the steady play of Chris Mullin. Instead, they went 26-56 the next year, traded Webber for Tom Gugliotta, and went 12 years without returning to the playoffs. In a way, Barkley doomed the Warriors to more than a decade of futility with this performance.
Announcers: Pete Van Wiren and Doug Collins.
I was like 8 years old and still remember watching this game.. Those were the suns glory days and i sure do miss watchin sir charles...go suns 09-10'
5 stars and favorited!! what a game by charles!!! he had it all...the stength, the shot, the fundamentals, the leadership... everything... and if it went to double overtime, he would have broken the playoff points record for sure!
I wish there were more clips of Barkley out like this one, it's awesome. I wish the NBA would put a dvd of him out with some full length games of his.
Thank you whoever put this up. It's so great.
god dman!, 27 points, he shot perfect in the 1st quarter, y the last 3 shots were all 3's, all swishes, and the very last shot was a step back 3, this is a godlike performance, utterly amazing!
Barkley in his prime would still dominate hands down. There are very few physical freaks in the NBA; Shaq, Barkley and Iverson who can do so much alone with their athleticism and of the three, he combined his work ethic and heart to its highest potential. He'd still be a nightmare against matchups regardless how many tall guys you throw at him, especially with the rules now.
Greatest Playoff performance of all time!!
It didn't matter who the Warriors put on Barkley this game. He just had it in him that he wouldn't be stopped!
Great video. I actually have this game on VHS. Yes, I'm a huge Charles fan. Remember y'all, he's 6 foot 4.
Gotta love the discussion on Charles Barkley on this video (thanks, Ace).
What interests me most about Barkley was his build. As a power forward, stereotypically speaking, he was shorter than most other PF's in hi day, but bulkier than many small forwards. He was, I THINK, between 6'4" and 6'7" and definitely weighed at least 250 pounds. Correctly nicknamed "The Round Mound of Rebound," his stature alone earned him a reputation as one of the NBA's most uniquely feared and respected players.
There wil never be a 6'6 power forward to dominate like that again. Barkley was a freak of nature.
damn,he was on fire,no one could ever stop him.his heights is 6'6 solid, he usually told he's 6'4 to made his rebound capability look great and unbelievable
They don't make 'em like this anymore.
Sir Charles Barkley.
6-4, 250. A true Titan of the game of Basketball.
Holy shit! 11 for 11 from the field? That might've been the best 1 quarter performance I've ever seen. Charles was a monster back in the day.
he's simply amazing
Sweet HD quality right here.
wow one of my favorite players of all time!
Charles Barkley one of the greatest power
i saw this on nbatv replay around 2006-08.... was astonished...
Sir Charles. Take notice folks. One of the best players in HISTORY. A 6 foot 4 power forward. Imagine that.
so awesome
Barkley delivered some spectacular performances in the 1993 NBA Finals, but he didn't do it alone. Even after his 44 points and 24 rebounds in Game Seven of the 1993 Western Conference Finals versus Seattle, the Sonics' Eddie Johnson (34 points) exclaimed, "Everybody talks about Barkley, but Kevin Johnson won them the game today." K.J. delivered 22 points (14-16 FT), 9 assists, 4 steals, and 2 blocks, and his persistent penetration frequently set-up Barkley and Tom Chambers (17 points).
He's doing stuff here that Duncan and Malone could never do.
K.J. missed 4 games in '91-'92, and in those 4 games, the Suns averaged 103.5 points. Conversely, in 78 games with K.J., they averaged 112.6 (a rise of approximately 9.1 points per contest).
So whether it was a matter of pace or just sheer effectiveness (or both), K.J. made a huge difference. Some very skilled and talented players surrounded him, certainly, but the perennial pre-Barkley numbers clearly and consistently show that he drove the attack's proficiency, more than vice-versa.
Barkley was amazing as a Phoenix Sun.
BEAST.
Remember, Barkley wasn't even in the playoffs in 1992 with Philadelphia, whereas the Suns had won at least 53 games and played in two Western Conference Finals from 1989-1992. Barkley was the team's MVP in 1993, but K.J. actually led the Suns in scoring in three of the first four playoff games against the Spurs and in two of the games against the Sonics.
The Suns didn't need Barkley to be a contender, but Barkley needed the Suns to play for a contender. Together, they reached the Finals.
Barkley was a beast!
holy crap a PF at 6'4 that dominant? Man i wished i lived in this era
Obviously, Thomas was also a great point guard regardless and his two championships and Finals MVP attest to that greatness. That said, his relative inefficiency when compared to K.J., Stockton, and Magic may suggest the necessity of his stalwart defensive teammates.
When K.J. missed Game One of the Laker series in 1993 with a sprained MCL, the Suns lost at home to the 39-win, eighth seed. K.J. came back well ahead of schedule for Game Two but had to wear a mechanical knee brace as the Suns again lost. As K.J.'s knee improved, so did the Suns' fortunes in that series. He shut-down the Lakers' leading scorer, Sedale Threatt (who'd scored 35 on 17-24 shooting in Game One) and K.J. posted 24 points and 13 assists in winner-take-all Game Five.
K.J. was the only guard to make the All-NBA Second Team each season from 1989-1991 while Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson possessed a joint stranglehold on the First Team guard slots. In 1991, K.J. received a Second Team berth, whereas Stockton made the Third Team. And over four seasons from 1989-1992, K.J. averaged 21.2 points, 11.1 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 1.6 steals, a .500 FG, and an .843 FT.
As for Majerle, like K.J., he made three All-Star teams and Dream Team II.
he was so thin at that times
maybe the only player who one can't guess his role - was a center a forward or a pointguard? he was awesome in each of them
Best PF Ever!
i remember this game! these two teams didnt believe in defense whatsoever so it was a classic west coast shootout
these suns were a similar tempo somewhat to the suns of nash and stoudamire
I agree! But Jorday scored 63 pts in 4 periods and 3 overtimes!
Barkley did it without overtimes!
Furthermore, Thomas' turnover averages sometimes remained static even when his shooting attempts changed. In 1990, he averaged 16.3 FGA, 4.7 FTA, and 4.0 turnovers (plus 9.4 assists). In 1991, he averaged just 13.9 FGA, along with 4.8 FTA and 9.3 assists, yet his turnover average was still at 3.9.
KJ was such a good point guard. Too bad no one remembers him.
The way that I've also seen it is that K.J. sort of represents the mid-point between Stockton and Thomas and Thomas represents the mid-point between Stockton and Iverson in terms of tendencies by a ball-dominating guard. Thomas was an amazing player, but he had a little more Iverson in him and K.J. had a little more Stockton in him, and that's reflected in how the "turnover percentages" of Thomas and Iverson basically seem too low for their high turnover averages.
Yeah he is really underated.
I totally agree 100%
Oh, Thomas was certainly comparable and I didn't mean to imply that he wasn't. In fact, he and K.J. are two of the three players in NBA history (along with Oscar Robertson) to average at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in at least three consecutive seasons.
And indeed, K.J. was the engine that drove Phoenix's pace. In his first full season with the Suns ('88-'89), they averaged 118.6 points per game, the most by anyone in four years and more than the "Showtime" Lakers ever averaged (by the way, by that logic, Magic's numbers were "inflated," too, as were Thomas' pre-1988 numbers). Also, the Suns' offense wasn't a gimmick because in '88-'89, they ranked fifth in "Defensive Rating," won 55 games, and reached the Western Conference Finals.
i cant imagine how well barkley would had done iff he had some better help than he had in pheonix that year. probably would have less stats but would have had a better chance at a ring.
John Stockton, conversely, is regarded as one of the greatest decision-makers of all-time, yet his "turnover percentage" is 20.8 because his denominator is much lower (he was basically the "purest" of the star point guards and thus shot the ball very selectively).
K.J. missed 5 games in '90-'91, and in those 5 games, the Suns averaged 102.0 points per game. Conversely, in 77 games with K.J., they averaged 114.8 (a rise of approximately 12.8 points per contest).
awesome... at 2:38, Don Nelson was like damn that son of a gun...
I agree, Prad. Barkley was capable of good defense, but he even admitted to usually using defense to conserve his energy for offense and rebounding. He felt that if he was expected to play defense, then he should receive a salary raise.
Those five playmakers were John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Maurice Cheeks, Kevin Johnson, and Mark Price. As virtuosic as Thomas was, his shooting efficiency wasn't on their level or that of such rival stars as Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and Clyde Drexler, which meant that the Pistons needed to make sure to try and contain the opposition. Hence came a change in philosophy, greater emphasis on defense, and the decision to swap the potent Tripucka for low-post scorer Adrian Dantley in 1986.
I consider Duncan a center ... he only started at PF because of Robinson, but moved to his natural position after he left.
Shaq was at his best in his late 20's than early 30's though
I appreciate Barkley fully and he did school Robinson on that jumper to win the San Antonio series. However, insiders regarded him as a defensive liability, whereas Majerle and especially K.J. were much better defenders. Barkley even joked that if a team wanted him to play defense, it would need to pay him a million more.
K.J. was certainly on Stockton's level, and Majerle was on Grant's level.
greatest power forward of all time standing only 6'4. basketball isnt like it use to be.
A Rookie Chris Webber
Being a point guard or a floor leader, however, obviously encompasses much more than just scoring and that's why "turnover percentage" can constitute a misleading measuring stick for a point guard.
... interesting discussion, by the way.
K.J. missed 8 games in '89-'90, and in those 8 games, the Suns averaged 103.9 points, failing to score 100 three times (or 37.5% of the time). In 74 games with K.J. that season, the Suns averaged 116.1 points (a rise of approximately 12.2 points per contest), failing to score 100 just four times (or 5.4% of the time).
In terms of the 1994 playoffs, Barkley averaged 33.4 points on .565 shooting in the first five games as the Suns went 5-0 (including 3-0 on the road), but then slumped to 21.8 points on .445 shooting in the last five games as Phoenix went 1-4. K.J., meanwhile, averaged 25.4 points and 9.2 assists in the first five games and 27.8 points and 10.0 assists in the last five games. Unfortunately, Majerle's skid was worse than Barkley's, from 18.8 points in the first five games to 5.8 afterward.
1) Thomas averaged 3.7 or more turnovers in nine different seasons, compared to one for K.J.
2) Thomas' turnovers-per-36 minutes is 3.7, compared to 3.2 for K.J.
3) Thomas' career assists-to-turnovers ratio is 2.5:1.0, compared to K.J.'s 3.0:1.0.
Chambers and E. Johnson were terrific scorers, but K.J. made them more effective, Chambers especially. I could go into that more later, or you could search out L. Dean Oliver's analysis. In fact, at his own Ring of Honor ceremony in Phoenix in 1999, Chambers called K.J. "the guy who made me the player I am."
Overall, I believe that the field goal, free throw, turnover, and assists-to-turnover averages indicate that K.J. took much better care of the ball and made decisions (shooting, passing, ball-handling) that resulted in a significantly higher rate of scoring possessions for his team. Oliver's "Floor Percentage" would also seem to indicate that (search on Google if you haven't heard of his work).
Henceforth, it doesn't seem as if shooting more forced Thomas into more turnovers as much as he just forced more shots, thus inflating his denominator and reducing his "turnover percentage" in a somewhat inorganic relationship.
Right, "turnover percentage" measures the rate of turnovers that a player commits among those possessions that directly end in his hands. Since Isiah Thomas consistently launched more shots than Kevin Johnson, more possessions directly ended in his hands, thus inflating his denominator in this metric and reducing his turnover percentage.
Charles' best year was in '93.
How often did he attempt 3's? Because he seemed to be so good at shooting so in his prime. I have never seen another power forward with that kind of accuracy from long range. I mean, he could shoot like a guard and defend like one too. That's why he and MJ were rivals.
Another quick question, and I am just curious: did Danny Ainge ever dunk? :D
Thanks.
Charles was still athletic at ag 30.
Okay, thanks.
Grant, conversely, never made a Dream Team and received just one All-Star berth. Also, K.J. and Magic Johnson are the only players in NBA history to have averaged at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, and a .500 field goal percentage in a season (both doing so twice), and in 1991, K.J. became the only player to ever average at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, a .500 field goal percentage, and 2.0 steals in a season.
However, Johnson might have been making wiser decisions with the ball by displaying more judicious shot selection, so his denominator logically wouldn't be as high. There's a reason why in the April 2000 edition of "SLAM" magazine, Sam Cassell labeled Thomas a "lead guard" and K.J. a "point guard." Turnover percentage may thus sometimes be less a sign of a player's decision-making or ability to take care of the ball as much as his shooting tendencies.
In three career Game Sevens, K.J. averaged 31.0 points and 10.0 assists, compared to 18.7 points and 9.0 assists by Thomas. Thomas was very clutch, but K.J. was right there as well.
Thomas just forced more shots and passes than K.J. I mean, he played with fine scorers and shooters such as Kelly Tripucka, Bill Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, Joe Dumars, Adrian Dantley, James Edwards, and Mark Aguirre.
For example, Allen Iverson's "turnover percentage" is only 12.1, even though he is known for erratic decision-making and has averaged at least 4.0 turnovers in five different seasons. All his shooting attempts, however, inflate his denominator and thus reduce his "turnover percentage."
check 1:35 for spree's great closeout
Iverson would be the same way, and the fact that he and Thomas shot 45% and under for their careers indicates that compared to K.J. and Stockton (who shot 49-52%), they forced more shots or displayed worse shot discretion (because not only were they taking more shots, but they were missing a much larger percentage).
As for turnovers, I guess that that depends on how you want to measure the statistic. Their "turnover percentages" prove virtually identical (16.8% for Thomas and 16.7% for K.J.), but "turnover percentage" is an estimate that doesn't seem to account for passing the ball (which naturally would include assists). Indeed, I wonder if it's misleading in this case because of the discrepancy in the pure averages.
Best PF's of all time: Tim Duncan, Sir Charles, Kevin Mchale, and Karl Malone. I think Tim Duncan and Kevin Mchale are 1 and 2(could be interchangeable), then Charles and Malone are an obvious 3 or 4.
i didnt compare him to chuck, in fact my statement shows how Amare cant even lace chuck's shoes, let alone compare to him.
Basically, their frequent shooting tendencies inflated their denominators for that metric, thus reducing their "turnover percentages." In the grand scheme of conducting an offense, Allen Iverson was not way less turnover-prone than John Stockton, and Isiah Thomas was not identical to K.J. in terms of committing turnovers. But since Iverson and Thomas ended more possessions directly given that they shot the ball more, it seems that way.
Actually I'd have to say as far as rebounding goes, they were pretty even. Duncan was a better defender overall while Barkley was better offensively. But Duncan was still good offensively while Barkley pretty good defensively, but I'd say Duncan's offensive game was a bit better than Chuck's defensive one.
He's better than Malone. I say Duncan is the greatest PF (not just based on ring count cos we all know some dude named Michael stopped a few great ones from getting a ring) but Chuck imo is #2 all time.
I'd still choose prime Barkley over prime TD. Heck, I might even choose prime Malone over prime TD. In certain ways, I think TD gets overrated. One of the problems is that great players like Barkley and Malone get discredited because they didn't win a ring. Well, if TD played in their era (with MJ and all the other great centers around), I doubt that he would've gotten a ring.
OK I will give you that Duncan is a better individual defender, but on the offensive end, chuck is unlike anything we have ever seen for a PF. Barkley was quicker, stronger, better shooter, better rebounder, and guard like ball handling. Not sure how someone can say Charles was not a good defender. He was very dangerous off the ball getting deflections and steels. He wasnt a shot blocker, but keep in mind he was 6'4".
Charles was so much better than Duncan that its not even reasonable to think that Duncan is better. If Duncan didnt have any rings no one would even think of saying it. Its a question of what PLAYER is better not what TEAM is better. And im pretty sure Barkley's Suns would take it to Duncans Spurs any day of the week anyway.
Not true. Nesterovic started at center, after Robinson left. Unless he plays 4 more years, the majority of his career will have been at the PF position (where his most significant years came). He's the greatest PF of all-time.
who ever recorded this hates earphones.....for the first half, my left ear was lonely, then around 4:36 my right ear gets lonely
Thomas' assists rate was only really higher for one season, '84-'85, when he averaged a stunning 13.9 assists per contest (the highest average prior to John Stockton). Otherwise, K.J.'s career assists-per-36 minutes (9.6 to Thomas' 9.2) and career assists percentage (38.8 to Thomas' 37.4) are a little higher. Regardless, K.J. and Thomas are two of the three players in NBA history (along with Oscar Robertson) to average at least 20.0 points and 12.0 assists in the same season.
In the mid-eighties when Thomas posted his best numbers, he also ran a fast-paced attack. However, because he wasn't nearly as efficient from K.J. (in terms of field goal percentage, free throw percentage, turnovers, and assists-to-turnovers ratio), the Pistons weren't as successful as K.J.'s Suns would later be. The Pistons only became a championship contender when Chuck Daly decided to tighten the reins on the comparatively inefficient Thomas and slow Detroit's attack.
As I've explained in this thread, Kevin Johnson was on the level of people like Stockton, Thomas, and Pippen. Why do you think that the Suns had won at lest 53 games in each of the four seasons prior to Barkley's arrival, reaching two Western Conference Finals and three Western Conference Semifinals? In 1990, the Suns came a couple baskets short of the NBA Finals, so Barkley was just the missing piece for a team that was already a championship contender.
Stockton, however, never averaged 4.0 turnovers in a season and only once averaged 3.7 or more (1989). Likewise, K.J. only once averaged 3.7 or more turnovers in a season (1989), whereas Thomas averaged 3.7 or more in nine different seasons (1982-1987, 1989-1991).
Thus their "turnover percentages" become unnaturally lowered and don't indicate that they were worse decision-makers than K.J. and Stockton, more prone to turning the ball over and less adept at making decisions that led to scoring possessions. Anyway, that's the way that I see it.
Barkley was a better all around player than Duncan. More points, more rebounds, more assists. Duncan does have the championships though.
I agree that the Pistons brought in better players, but I've also read (in a newspaper article) that Daly believed that Detroit couldn't be as successful if Thomas shot too much, which makes sense given his merely moderate field goal percentages. For instance, basketball writer L. Dean Oliver devised a statistic labeled "Floor Percentage" to measure a player's offensive efficiency, and Thomas didn't even rank amount the five best point guards in '88-'89 in that regard.
Charles was amazing this game, but man those Warriors didn't have shit for defenders. I was watching this game recently on NBA TV and the whole time I was thinking...man somebody like Scottie Pippen would never let himself get embarrassed like this. There is this game the next season where Charles is abusing the Bulls PF's so they have to put Scottie on Charles and he essentially keeps him under control after that. BTW, Chris Mullin was also sick as fuck in this game.
lol at Latrell Sprewell's defense at 1:32-1:32!
like he's in da park playin by himself lol
I don't think that Thomas was a better individual driver than K.J., either, as K.J.'s first step was more explosive and he didn't need as many dribbles to create his shots. In that regard, Thomas is a little like Iverson except a much better playmaker and floor leader.
Look at Nelsons facial expression at 8:13
Essentially, "turnover percentage" measures how turnover-prone a player is within the context of scoring and scoring only. If you could just isolate Thomas and K.J. as scorers, then they'd be about the same in terms of turnover rates, and that's what "turnover percentage" shows. Indeed, that's the reason why almost all the career leaders in "turnover percentage" are pretty much non-playmakers.
@AceroySangre exactly :-)
i thought u ment the coney island warriors lol
Man he should've had 70. They missed about 10 and one's
Except that Jordan didn't do it against a crappy defensive team
Furthermore, the Celtics had the best team in the NBA that season
Yeah, your comparison is spot on