Death Knight 1:02 A Paladin 3:47 A Warrior 5:42 B Evoker 8:08 A Hunter 11:06 S Shaman 14:33 D Demon Hunter 15:56 S Druid 19:05 S Monk 22:11 B Rogue 24:18 F Priest 25:15 B Mage 27:28 B Warlock 29:48 A End 32:26 Tier List Amount of Time Spent Talking S = 3min + A = 2.5min-3min B = 2min-2.5min C = 1.5min-2min D = 1min-1.5min F = 0min-1min
Exactly, I just ignore the throughput hero talents since they don't matter, numbers can be tuned whenever blizz wants. Quality of life changes, interesting gameplay and animations are what's guiding my main choice for TWW.
As a guy that mains all the evoker specs, i can say that the gameplay for scale commander is 5/5 . It has so many interactions with the base kit, the bombardments are really cool, and the tree makes deep breath really nice to use. Scale commander is a knock out of the park on how good it feels.
yeah i main all the evoker specs too and i'm extremely happy with all 3 choices tbh. flameshaper lets you keep gameplay mostly similar, but adds a much needed extra button. scalecommander adds some complexity without making it complex, and has such a good fantasy behind it. they both open up some more build choices too. will feel sad not having the option to control deep breath/dream flight in pres though :(
Glad to hear that man, I am learning to use Augmentation (trying to be good at it), the spec looks fun and for what you say, I hope that the spec remains like this with no changes so that when i get a hold of the spec, I can have just as much fun as you.
Question: if I don't like the sound of bombardment but i like the fantasy and style of it, is there a way to mute that? i feel like ive seen an addon but idk if itll work here
@@xxkyky There is an addon I use, called MuteSoundFile, that you can choose any sound file in the game and mute it. Just use wowhead to look up the number code for the sound file. Its been a lifesaver against obnoxious noises. Hope this helps.
The fantasy of colossus is for me. Arms has always been billed as the weapon master to fury's berserker, but in practice Arms is still pretty barbarian coded with its main ability essentially being "hit it really hard to break its armor". Demolish brings it back to being a weapon master, with talents like martial expert and true might along side unstoppable force really setting you in to a crit focus, I'm finally seeing the Arms Warrior I've always imagined coming in to focus and I couldn't be happier. Of course we're getting it at the same time as Mountain Thane and I started leveling a Warrior in MoP because when talents came out showing Avatar and Storm Bolt my first thought was "I can't wait to be a Mountain King". Deciding between Colossus Arms and Mountain Thane Fury is going to be the hardest decision of my WoW career.
I agree honestly, the only drawback I can think of for Demolish that it roots you on place. and I won't necessarily call it a drawback, but it requires just a bit more and it will feel amazing. Slayer needs a lot of work.
@@gatsuyatsu IMO there's two things they need for Slayer to crank the fantasy up to 11 1: Windwalk: removes the minimum distance on Charge, makes it grant 1 second of Stealth, and guarantees your next attack is a critical hit 2. Mirror Image: cause Sweeping Strikes/Improved Whirlwind to create mirror images that duplicate your attacks. Maybe improves Sweeping Strikes to hit more targets while allowing more attacks on improved whirlwind? Boom You have become a Blademaster, like people have wanted since vanilla.
As a hardcore Hunter, been playing since release, only my Hunter, no alts, Im honestly pretty fucking fed up with Hunter treatment and the whole "Hard to change because of popularity" is an absolute copout as over the years we changed DRAMATICALLY from Mana to Focus as a resource, we had an entire spec converted to melee, our ranged spec went to a charge based gameplay, we've gone from direct damage to dot upkeep to a hybrid on BM - there have been way bigger changes to the class than what would be required to fix us that didnt affect the popularity. It wouldnt even require much effort like the bomb thing - just have it change bombs to something else that performs the same function but in a Sentinel kind of way with matching graphics. The most obvious one is let Survival Hunters use Warglaives - literally the iconic sentinel weapon that everyone recognises is a warglaive - just that change alone with the Dual Weild it brings with it that people have also been asking for since forever would be amazing. Why can I think of that in less than 5 seconds of thought but Blizzard is just "Hurr durr bombz u gaiz".
As a shaman person, I am really disappointed with Farseer. My basic reason boils down to the fact that it's not a Farseer tree, it's a P-wave tree. Shaman has a lot of spirit-themed buttons that could have been integrated in this tree. Also, we have the ability "Farsee" and would have been a fun add in. Our tree has only 4 nodes that interact with the ancestor theme. I want to see almost every node have some kind of ancestor-related mechanic.
I'll also say that the hero talents for Shaman seem to be leaning heavily into enhancing the two-build options for the specs. For Elemental, Farseer is the talent tree for the "fire" build, and Stormbringer is the talent tree for the "lightning" build. Similarly, Enhancement has the "elemental" and "storm" build, and Frost DK its Obliteration and Breath builds. These binary choices are unpopular with players because some players will prefer one or the other, and half of them will be annoyed when their preferred build is not viable or doesn't have a tier set that works with it.
Could you guys do a compliation video of the main visual changes of each of these? For a lot of casual players including myself, the fantasy and visuals are probably more important than the gameplay or balance because those things can change. A lot of these I have no idea what the visuals look like.
Replace the boring Shado-Pan with Blademaster - gives monk an option to have a draenor vibe instead of everything being pandaria, and Wind Walk and Mirror Image actually fits the monk class.
i would definitely give san'layn at LEAST a 4 for fantasy! as a blood DK, i always wanted to be that cool vampire shit, we got the good cosmetics in shadowlands with Vanthyr, know the class fantasy AND gameplay! what can you ask more?
@@gatsuyatsu throw glaive and more mobility LOL tbh all the lore we got its what is written in the coments above, we don't have even a picture of how this people looked like
Quick note on demolish for colossus warrior, you’re able to use heroic leap while in the channel to reposition without cancelling the ability and still hitting your target.
As someone who has been enjoying SoD warlock tanking, I was hoping that if warlock isn’t getting a tank spec that DH hero talents make it more attractive in the fantasy department. Of what I’ve seen of the most recent DH hero talents…eh, its ok. Still wish we had a few more caster themed tanks. Warlock/shaman/evoker tank when?
I just imagined Dark Ranger differently and a lot more simple if I'm being honest. Something like being able to dual-wield 1 bow and dagger/sword in off-hand while making some attacks work/change if you're within melee range of your target.
I posted on the forum about this as my feedback, but they should have just ripped a bunch of cool abilities from the Sylvanas fight in shadowlands... it blows my mind that they didn't do that. Coulda had some melee jump in/out options, some cool aoe stuff, given some wailing arrow love, etc etc... Honestly it'll blow my mind if all hunter hero classes don't get a lot of changes along with a full hunter rework at some point. Hunters are long overdue for a massive overhaul and the hero talents MUST change with them or the class is going to feel awful.
@@thatepicwizardguy Given we are the ONLY class missing from the last round of updates and the ONLY class with a big "We have no changes coming" disclaimer on their feedback thread I think any hope of a real rework is copium at best and the garbage here is as good as its going to get.
Hellcaller for affliction is fine, for destruction it doesn't feel like it belongs. Would have prefered gigantic soul fires and channel demonfire and incinerates instead.
Pack leader is perfect, it remain simple even more so then before. I can veg out and keep up with all of those 25 button Andy's. I love that they recognize people who love the simplistic nature of it.
I was a mistweaver main since around WoD, and while I'm thinking about rerolling to Mage or Priest cos those abilities are just that cool, Master of Harmony actually has me interested. Fistweaving while launching AOE waves of force in a line with pretty much every attack? That sounds insanely fun to me.
Aldrachi reaver is just awful gameplay wise. The thing matt likes about it is basically what we already have with essence break. The reality of this hero talent tree will be lining up a million buffs for a small window of damage and micro managing these buffs. To make it even worse the buffed glaive isn't even on a predictable timer so alot of the time you're holding your abilities until you have it all then performing a hyper specific unintuitive combo to get the most out of your damage
Honestly, they could do better with the Hunter and Rogue Hero Talent fantasies. Something like "Naturalist" for Beast Master and Survival specs, where the character adapt the primal behavior and instinct of the wilds. More aggressive animations and animal effects on top of the character when they do certain spells. Rogue can be "Butcher" (Outlaw and Assassination). Butchers are pretty self explanatory - amputations, bleeding, and just have more "bloody" animations in general. Their fantasy is to basically be the sadistic murder hobos.
I tried playing a lot of classes and I feel like survival hunter is the one that I understand and perform the best in. It absolutely sucks that they are getting shafted. Again.
Some of the less impressive ones do seem kinda like maybe they wrote themselves into a corner by deciding to make one for every spec intersection even if they didn't have a cool idea for it. I do kinda wish the 2 Demonhunter ones were ones focused on the 2 main aspects of Fel magic each, fire and shadow, that way you could have a DH be kinda void-coded.
As a ret paladin main, I am really not looking forward to more hammers lol if that is considered S tier, I guess the hero talents for me are on average a C or below
@@Krulfar something along the lines of Tyrael from HotS, long arm of the law, maybe the crusader drag chains from d4, and maybe a talent that replaces bubble with omni strike. Anything but hammers. Fuck hammers
@Krulfar actually I only play PvE lol Anything is "thematic" as long as you make the animation thematic. Besides you are telling me rider of apocalypse is thematic but a paladin. Chaining and dragging someone while riding his horse isn't? Bruhhh
WoW’a lead shaman class designer when he is leaving home for work: Feels like I forgot something important, I wonder what.. Hmm probably not important if I forgot hehe.
Let's be honest. They phoned it in for hunters and have been as a whole for quite some time. Survival is still sitting with the beta dragonflight type talents of % increases that do nothing else and cost 2 points, their ENTIRE dps kit has to be bought with talents, they get nothing baseline not even raptor strike.
My problem with Diabolist is that it steps too much on the toes of Demonology. Demon players have been asking forever to be able to summon higher demons, and when they get that, it's shared with Destro. Feels bad.
Hero Talents are similar to Legion Artifacts - every talent tree is required to have one, but your imagination has limits. So that is why Voidweaver is such a highlight because it is full of flavor for this expac, yet no one knows what da fuck rogue is doing here and how to make him shine in comparison.
Imo peak warrior fantasy is that they have no fantasy. Just charge into battle with nothing but your weapons and will to dominate. Not every hero tree needs to have super flashy magical abilities and particle effects. Mountain Thane delivers that for the players that crave it, but the other 2 trees don't need it. Also, Colossus gameplay is being underrated here. Demolish is the hardest hitting ability in the game which makes the tree a 5 for me.
Mountain Thane is my lowest rated warrior tree - as you say us warriors just like to smack shit without anything too flasy, both collossus and slayer deliver on that.
Both the resto druid talents sound boring as fk. I can't see where's the "hero" part of these talents. Even azerite traits were way more interesting than these +3% +5% stuff.
Oracle - A (amazing concept, lmao), Herald of the Sun - B. Is the whole video going to be wrong and deceiving like that? I just checked out the spreadsheet at the start and spot those immediately as a literal bullshit. Herald is an easy A, Oracle is literal definition of F.
I’m absolutely shocked that they decided to use dark ranger as a hero spec at all. The more and more I look at the hunter kit, the more and more I realize just how underwhelming it is. And then there’s the fact that they’re not willing to change. It makes me think that hunters are going to get the demon hunters/warlock treatment. As in they’re probably going to bring in a dark ranger class of some kind and they’re going to gut hunter class. So why would they bother changing it now?
I still don't understand why people hate the Aldrachi. Go read the lore of Toranaar, It took Sagaras himself to come to their planet to kill him because nobody else could. I think people downplay this because he was technically a warrior but the identity was blended in with demon hunters will to withstand the demon within and others alike.
I agree, the lore of an aldrachi reaver is really cool. They're basically the greatest demon hunters that ever lived. It's just sad they've never appeared in game
I don't think people hate them so much as Blizz hasn't really established them such that you could build a class fantasy around the idea. I get that their single source of lore paints them as badass, but we know nothing of them beyond that. So if the question is: "Does this live up to the fantasy?" the response would be: "What fantasy?".
i was expecting spellslinger to use wands, thematically at least even if they dont equip them. like you still have wands in the game and its completely forgotten now 😂
Seems like they're giving melee more movement or slows. Could be ugly for casters in pvp. They could be adding more pvp talents to offset it, too, though.
LOL how did dark ranger score a B??? it fails to deliver on the theme, it fails mechanically, it fails. it's a C AT BEST. Hunter got massively shafted yet again. EDIT: HOW IS DARK RANGER TIED WITH SPELLSLINGER AND SOUL HARVESTER? guys... no. Get your heads out of the sand. EDIT2: "Everybody plays hunter, druid or paladin so those are the hard ones to change" - meanwhile paladin and druid have had MULTIPLE reworks and a shitton of tuning... bro again hunters are down so bad. Inb4 a rework happens but it sucks rofl
What are you smoking with Templar’s class fantasy and theme? It’s very lackluster. Hammers was not a good direction and adds no new or exciting flavor.
how the HELL did you not talk AT ALL about Templar?! I was sooo excited to see what you think, but other than mentioning it being "insane" at the end of the Pally intro you completely skipped it >.> Consider me irritated
Archon's halo rings & passive damage /cooldown amps seem so boring, while it may feel really nice to play. It doesn't fit the whole Archon fantasy at all to me. The text description they add to the Archon Hero talents seem to be such a massive clickbait it isn't even funny. I had hoped that they did something more like the following below for archon: **HOLY** You receive a new cooldown ability, that will act as a shapeshift. A big holy/spirit entity merges with you, granting you new powers for a brief duration. A transformation that you can enter which grants you 4 new spells (perhaps replaces things such a smite, renew, etc or uses a new bar like rogue stealth or druid beast forms). Four buttons that either do a lot of damage, a strong st heal, a strong aoe heal and maybe something else. BUT during the transformation you'll be drained of your mana. Upon expiring or early tapping out you'll regain 50% of lost mana. Strong / long cooldown. **SHADOW** You receive a new cooldown ability, that will act as a shapeshift. A big shadow/void entity merges with you, granting you new powers for a brief duration. A transformation that you can enter which grants you 4 new spells (perhaps replaces things such a mind blast, power word shield, etc or uses a new bar like rogue stealth or druid beast forms). BUT during the transformation you'll be drained of your health until you're 20% hp. Spell casts cost health during this cooldown. The less health you have, the more powerful your abilities. Upon hitting 20% hp/duration expiration or early tapping out you'll regain 60% of lost health. High risk, high reward. I'ld say this or something similar to this would properly fit the Archon fantasy and numbers may need to be tweaked, but you got the idea! :3
Still think it would be so much better if we get to become either a void entity or a holy entity and get access to 4 new buttons while we're channeling that form (shadow = health drain mechanic for power / holy = mana drain mechanic for power) and then get to decide when to leave the form early if necessary. Rather than the to me boring halo rings & cooldown amps.
Maybe a hot take, but bombs was never good survival flavor. I love having a melee hunter (fighting up close with my pet), but the bombs have always felt tacked on from a fantasy perspective.
Fighting in close range and throwing bombs/grenades at your enemy sounds like a fantastic idea in real life. I always wanted survi to be a mix of melee and ranged than can adapt on the fly - they could mix in a Dark Spear/Berserker flavor from W3 where you are throwing axes or spears from mid range (when target is moving) and can fight with them in melee if needed. In addition if target stands in place for long period of time then you can use traps (they could even add some silly mechanic like taunting and baiting bosses into traps to trigger them for extra dmg or something). Basically the improvise, adapt, overcome meme in one spec
Things that would have gotten me hyped: Full holy dps priest option (I hate shadow), full ranged dps pally option, hunters to not be boring as hell, evoker to lose the ugly transmog-phobic dracthyr form entirely, simplified elemental shaman rotation/buttons. It’s not looking promising.
Really phoning in hunter huh (not you guys, blizz is). Annoying because beastmaster is the only one that feels horde. The other 2 are too elfy. Cark ranger is elfy, just spooky elfy. They need to rethink all 3 and they will not
I can't wait until the day they replace the Hunter Dev. Why is everything related to Survival Hunter just trash? This guy doesn't care about hunter at all. They rarely have any moments to shine. Just BM. Many of us don't like BM. There are 3 specs in the class. 90% of the play time in the last 8 years MM and SV have been among the 5 least played specs. Can we just have a new dev. A dev that cares.
Im sorry but rider and deathbringer are lackluster at best. oh wow we can ride a horse in combat..... deathbringer just reinforces the issues the spec has. meanwhile mages get a rework while dks have had the same playestyle for years now. Breath sucks to play and oblit just recently become okay to play.
I mean... rider summons the 4 horsemen and has some ocol (and powerful) shit going on. I'm sitting over here as a MM hunter in pure despair compared to you DKs haha both classes could really use a damn overhaul though... our shaman brothers and sisters as well.
@@thatepicwizardguy I feel ya brotha. Totally agree with mm and Shamans. I just see people raving about mounted combat and I’m just like 🤷🏽♂️. It’s cool to see them bring back the 4 horseman I just would’ve liked in a different way. I play mostly frost Dk so I guess we shall wait and see what happens haha
Man, I hate primordial wave. It doesn't vibe with the fantasy and doesn't feel good to use. Ik ik "BUT EVERYONE USES IT" I don't care. I got my arena set every season without using it and don't care about numbers. Total garbage that a class as diverse as Shamans are being pigeon-holed into a multi target dot spec.
Yeah you may not like Grummz, dude, but you being on the side of Sweet Baby, Inc and trying to obfuscate that for so long isn’t hilarious- it is sad. I wouldn’t start thinking you are collecting W’s when you are so obviously on the wrong side of this whole shitshow.
Oracle is fine. The biggest outrage came from folks confidently misunderstanding the original design & now it's just WoW boomers mad at support stuff being in the game. What I can get behind is that Archon & Voidweaver are both extremely cool, more-so than Oracle.
Death Knight 1:02 A
Paladin 3:47 A
Warrior 5:42 B
Evoker 8:08 A
Hunter 11:06 S
Shaman 14:33 D
Demon Hunter 15:56 S
Druid 19:05 S
Monk 22:11 B
Rogue 24:18 F
Priest 25:15 B
Mage 27:28 B
Warlock 29:48 A
End 32:26
Tier List Amount of Time Spent Talking
S = 3min +
A = 2.5min-3min
B = 2min-2.5min
C = 1.5min-2min
D = 1min-1.5min
F = 0min-1min
General rule of thumb: ignore numbers, look at visuals and satisfactory gameplay loop because those things cant be fixed easily.
Exactly, I just ignore the throughput hero talents since they don't matter, numbers can be tuned whenever blizz wants.
Quality of life changes, interesting gameplay and animations are what's guiding my main choice for TWW.
But will they be fixed?
As a guy that mains all the evoker specs, i can say that the gameplay for scale commander is 5/5 . It has so many interactions with the base kit, the bombardments are really cool, and the tree makes deep breath really nice to use. Scale commander is a knock out of the park on how good it feels.
yeah i main all the evoker specs too and i'm extremely happy with all 3 choices tbh. flameshaper lets you keep gameplay mostly similar, but adds a much needed extra button. scalecommander adds some complexity without making it complex, and has such a good fantasy behind it. they both open up some more build choices too. will feel sad not having the option to control deep breath/dream flight in pres though :(
Glad to hear that man, I am learning to use Augmentation (trying to be good at it), the spec looks fun and for what you say, I hope that the spec remains like this with no changes so that when i get a hold of the spec, I can have just as much fun as you.
Question: if I don't like the sound of bombardment but i like the fantasy and style of it, is there a way to mute that? i feel like ive seen an addon but idk if itll work here
@@xxkyky There is an addon I use, called MuteSoundFile, that you can choose any sound file in the game and mute it. Just use wowhead to look up the number code for the sound file. Its been a lifesaver against obnoxious noises. Hope this helps.
The fantasy of colossus is for me.
Arms has always been billed as the weapon master to fury's berserker, but in practice Arms is still pretty barbarian coded with its main ability essentially being "hit it really hard to break its armor". Demolish brings it back to being a weapon master, with talents like martial expert and true might along side unstoppable force really setting you in to a crit focus, I'm finally seeing the Arms Warrior I've always imagined coming in to focus and I couldn't be happier.
Of course we're getting it at the same time as Mountain Thane and I started leveling a Warrior in MoP because when talents came out showing Avatar and Storm Bolt my first thought was "I can't wait to be a Mountain King".
Deciding between Colossus Arms and Mountain Thane Fury is going to be the hardest decision of my WoW career.
I agree honestly, the only drawback I can think of for Demolish that it roots you on place. and I won't necessarily call it a drawback, but it requires just a bit more and it will feel amazing. Slayer needs a lot of work.
@@gatsuyatsu IMO there's two things they need for Slayer to crank the fantasy up to 11
1: Windwalk: removes the minimum distance on Charge, makes it grant 1 second of Stealth, and guarantees your next attack is a critical hit
2. Mirror Image: cause Sweeping Strikes/Improved Whirlwind to create mirror images that duplicate your attacks. Maybe improves Sweeping Strikes to hit more targets while allowing more attacks on improved whirlwind?
Boom You have become a Blademaster, like people have wanted since vanilla.
As a hardcore Hunter, been playing since release, only my Hunter, no alts, Im honestly pretty fucking fed up with Hunter treatment and the whole "Hard to change because of popularity" is an absolute copout as over the years we changed DRAMATICALLY from Mana to Focus as a resource, we had an entire spec converted to melee, our ranged spec went to a charge based gameplay, we've gone from direct damage to dot upkeep to a hybrid on BM - there have been way bigger changes to the class than what would be required to fix us that didnt affect the popularity.
It wouldnt even require much effort like the bomb thing - just have it change bombs to something else that performs the same function but in a Sentinel kind of way with matching graphics. The most obvious one is let Survival Hunters use Warglaives - literally the iconic sentinel weapon that everyone recognises is a warglaive - just that change alone with the Dual Weild it brings with it that people have also been asking for since forever would be amazing.
Why can I think of that in less than 5 seconds of thought but Blizzard is just "Hurr durr bombz u gaiz".
I was very meh about this at first but after seeing the visuals of some of the abilities, my interest is more peaked.
Piqued!
@@martinmp19 I like how they edited the comment but didn’t bother to correct the spelling error. What a mad lad. 😂
Especially for the pack leader's abilities, they looks STUNNING!
As a shaman person, I am really disappointed with Farseer. My basic reason boils down to the fact that it's not a Farseer tree, it's a P-wave tree. Shaman has a lot of spirit-themed buttons that could have been integrated in this tree. Also, we have the ability "Farsee" and would have been a fun add in. Our tree has only 4 nodes that interact with the ancestor theme. I want to see almost every node have some kind of ancestor-related mechanic.
I'll also say that the hero talents for Shaman seem to be leaning heavily into enhancing the two-build options for the specs. For Elemental, Farseer is the talent tree for the "fire" build, and Stormbringer is the talent tree for the "lightning" build. Similarly, Enhancement has the "elemental" and "storm" build, and Frost DK its Obliteration and Breath builds. These binary choices are unpopular with players because some players will prefer one or the other, and half of them will be annoyed when their preferred build is not viable or doesn't have a tier set that works with it.
Could you guys do a compliation video of the main visual changes of each of these? For a lot of casual players including myself, the fantasy and visuals are probably more important than the gameplay or balance because those things can change. A lot of these I have no idea what the visuals look like.
As an Enhancement Shaman main.... I cry. evrtime.
Same here bro... I think we will get some good stuff in war within final version. MAYBE TARGET CAP FOR EXAMPLE xD
@@Pinakoko We can always hope!
Replace the boring Shado-Pan with Blademaster - gives monk an option to have a draenor vibe instead of everything being pandaria, and Wind Walk and Mirror Image actually fits the monk class.
Matt: "I am Elunes chosen, f*ck this nature sh*t!". LMAO
Legion pre-patch is when my hunter died.
Surv main spotted
And my disc priest. :(
It is a cool rp though. "Died on the front lines against the Legion vanguard."
@@dr.zoidberg8666 The rp doesn't remove the pain of continued loss.
Breath killed dual weild frost
i would definitely give san'layn at LEAST a 4 for fantasy! as a blood DK, i always wanted to be that cool vampire shit, we got the good cosmetics in shadowlands with Vanthyr, know the class fantasy AND gameplay! what can you ask more?
Correction: The Legion couldn't defeat the Aldrachi until Sargarus himself decended from the sky and personally wiped them out.
Bombarded the planet with fell fire
ok thats insanely cool, what do you think of the direction Blizz is headed for the hero talent?
@@gatsuyatsu throw glaive and more mobility LOL tbh all the lore we got its what is written in the coments above, we don't have even a picture of how this people looked like
Quick note on demolish for colossus warrior, you’re able to use heroic leap while in the channel to reposition without cancelling the ability and still hitting your target.
As someone who has been enjoying SoD warlock tanking, I was hoping that if warlock isn’t getting a tank spec that DH hero talents make it more attractive in the fantasy department. Of what I’ve seen of the most recent DH hero talents…eh, its ok.
Still wish we had a few more caster themed tanks. Warlock/shaman/evoker tank when?
I'm not sure if theyll transition that to retail. But man it would definitely spice things up
I just imagined Dark Ranger differently and a lot more simple if I'm being honest.
Something like being able to dual-wield 1 bow and dagger/sword in off-hand while making some attacks work/change if you're within melee range of your target.
I posted on the forum about this as my feedback, but they should have just ripped a bunch of cool abilities from the Sylvanas fight in shadowlands... it blows my mind that they didn't do that. Coulda had some melee jump in/out options, some cool aoe stuff, given some wailing arrow love, etc etc...
Honestly it'll blow my mind if all hunter hero classes don't get a lot of changes along with a full hunter rework at some point. Hunters are long overdue for a massive overhaul and the hero talents MUST change with them or the class is going to feel awful.
This idea is better for a rework than a hero talent tbh. Hunters could probably use a rework though.
It really should have been a marksman/survival but for the player base they made it MM/BM.
@@thatepicwizardguy Given we are the ONLY class missing from the last round of updates and the ONLY class with a big "We have no changes coming" disclaimer on their feedback thread I think any hope of a real rework is copium at best and the garbage here is as good as its going to get.
Hellcaller for affliction is fine, for destruction it doesn't feel like it belongs. Would have prefered gigantic soul fires and channel demonfire and incinerates instead.
Is this recorded before or after the latest paladin changes which makes herald of the sun really good?
It looks like before as Archon isn't on there and that was in last week's build. And Fatestalker.
100% agree that Dark Ranger should be a class not a sub class like this, it just can't really fit in this format
Just w8ing for any enhancement shaman news...
my bet and hope is a rework is in progress that's why hero talent not up yet /praying
Cant wait for stormbringer, please give the shamans some love
Pack leader is perfect, it remain simple even more so then before. I can veg out and keep up with all of those 25 button Andy's. I love that they recognize people who love the simplistic nature of it.
One of us! One of us!
I was a mistweaver main since around WoD, and while I'm thinking about rerolling to Mage or Priest cos those abilities are just that cool, Master of Harmony actually has me interested. Fistweaving while launching AOE waves of force in a line with pretty much every attack? That sounds insanely fun to me.
On one hand we have voidweaver summoning black holes, on the other, arcane mage summoning little spikes and cat druid clawing stuff. Unbalanced
Voidweaver S+++ tier, everyone else is "not Voidweaver" tier. Literally changing my main for it.
Aldrachi reaver is just awful gameplay wise. The thing matt likes about it is basically what we already have with essence break. The reality of this hero talent tree will be lining up a million buffs for a small window of damage and micro managing these buffs. To make it even worse the buffed glaive isn't even on a predictable timer so alot of the time you're holding your abilities until you have it all then performing a hyper specific unintuitive combo to get the most out of your damage
Keep in mind that not al specs needs to be complicated for ppl to enjoy them.
Honestly, they could do better with the Hunter and Rogue Hero Talent fantasies.
Something like "Naturalist" for Beast Master and Survival specs, where the character adapt the primal behavior and instinct of the wilds. More aggressive animations and animal effects on top of the character when they do certain spells.
Rogue can be "Butcher" (Outlaw and Assassination). Butchers are pretty self explanatory - amputations, bleeding, and just have more "bloody" animations in general. Their fantasy is to basically be the sadistic murder hobos.
Animations and art assets in many cases are not final, they are still a wip, to note.
people always say this and in the end its always 50/50, sometimes its good after all and sometimes it remains sheet for whole expansion :)
the aldrachi proved that the legion could be fought back, and it was more than a little longer they halo reach'd that shit.
I tried playing a lot of classes and I feel like survival hunter is the one that I understand and perform the best in. It absolutely sucks that they are getting shafted. Again.
Colossus is the spec you will do as protection when you need survivability.
Some of the less impressive ones do seem kinda like maybe they wrote themselves into a corner by deciding to make one for every spec intersection even if they didn't have a cool idea for it.
I do kinda wish the 2 Demonhunter ones were ones focused on the 2 main aspects of Fel magic each, fire and shadow, that way you could have a DH be kinda void-coded.
Literally skipped right over Templar lol
As a ret paladin main, I am really not looking forward to more hammers lol if that is considered S tier, I guess the hero talents for me are on average a C or below
So what did you want?
@@Krulfar something along the lines of Tyrael from HotS, long arm of the law, maybe the crusader drag chains from d4, and maybe a talent that replaces bubble with omni strike. Anything but hammers. Fuck hammers
@@framinthor that's not a thematic. You are just asking for a movility skill probably cause you just play pvp.
@Krulfar actually I only play PvE lol
Anything is "thematic" as long as you make the animation thematic.
Besides you are telling me rider of apocalypse is thematic but a paladin. Chaining and dragging someone while riding his horse isn't? Bruhhh
You heard it here folks.. Diabolist feels like head 31:07 .
Play Diabolist and get you some!
Would've loved to see chapters on a video like this one!
Delete Sentinel, insert rifleman!
WoW’a lead shaman class designer when he is leaving home for work: Feels like I forgot something important, I wonder what.. Hmm probably not important if I forgot hehe.
Let's be honest. They phoned it in for hunters and have been as a whole for quite some time. Survival is still sitting with the beta dragonflight type talents of % increases that do nothing else and cost 2 points, their ENTIRE dps kit has to be bought with talents, they get nothing baseline not even raptor strike.
My problem with Diabolist is that it steps too much on the toes of Demonology. Demon players have been asking forever to be able to summon higher demons, and when they get that, it's shared with Destro.
Feels bad.
We don't take Spellslinger slander in this household. How dare you.
Hero Talents are similar to Legion Artifacts - every talent tree is required to have one, but your imagination has limits. So that is why Voidweaver is such a highlight because it is full of flavor for this expac, yet no one knows what da fuck rogue is doing here and how to make him shine in comparison.
Imo peak warrior fantasy is that they have no fantasy. Just charge into battle with nothing but your weapons and will to dominate. Not every hero tree needs to have super flashy magical abilities and particle effects. Mountain Thane delivers that for the players that crave it, but the other 2 trees don't need it.
Also, Colossus gameplay is being underrated here. Demolish is the hardest hitting ability in the game which makes the tree a 5 for me.
Mountain Thane is my lowest rated warrior tree - as you say us warriors just like to smack shit without anything too flasy, both collossus and slayer deliver on that.
dark ranger should have been survival, i get theyre famous for bows but survival literally used to have black arrow...
"Used to" back when it used ranged weapons. It makes no sense at all for modern Survival & does make sense for both BM & Marks.
I was debating between Mage and Priest before I knew about these hero talents and this does not make it easier at all.
I hope whoever did the Mage ones comes take a look at Rogue...
Can you tell me what Slayer's Strike looks like for Slayer warriors? Does it work like/look like the old Mortal Combo from shadowlands?
Dark Ranger needs to be a MM/SV Hero Talent.
I want Stormbringer to basically turn Ele Shamans into Storm Spirit. Here I am!
Both the resto druid talents sound boring as fk. I can't see where's the "hero" part of these talents. Even azerite traits were way more interesting than these +3% +5% stuff.
Where can i download this spreadsheet
Oracle - A (amazing concept, lmao), Herald of the Sun - B.
Is the whole video going to be wrong and deceiving like that? I just checked out the spreadsheet at the start and spot those immediately as a literal bullshit. Herald is an easy A, Oracle is literal definition of F.
Aldrachi is like wows version of the spartans
I think you underestimated wildstalker a little. There's some catweaving stuff in there that looks like it could be really, really fun as resto!
I’m absolutely shocked that they decided to use dark ranger as a hero spec at all. The more and more I look at the hunter kit, the more and more I realize just how underwhelming it is. And then there’s the fact that they’re not willing to change. It makes me think that hunters are going to get the demon hunters/warlock treatment. As in they’re probably going to bring in a dark ranger class of some kind and they’re going to gut hunter class. So why would they bother changing it now?
There has not been a hunter dev in years, they completely gave up on the class
I still don't understand why people hate the Aldrachi. Go read the lore of Toranaar, It took Sagaras himself to come to their planet to kill him because nobody else could. I think people downplay this because he was technically a warrior but the identity was blended in with demon hunters will to withstand the demon within and others alike.
I agree, the lore of an aldrachi reaver is really cool. They're basically the greatest demon hunters that ever lived. It's just sad they've never appeared in game
Thar being said the gameplay of the tree is awful for anyone trying to get the most out of their damage
I don't think people hate them so much as Blizz hasn't really established them such that you could build a class fantasy around the idea. I get that their single source of lore paints them as badass, but we know nothing of them beyond that. So if the question is: "Does this live up to the fantasy?" the response would be: "What fantasy?".
i was expecting spellslinger to use wands, thematically at least even if they dont equip them. like you still have wands in the game and its completely forgotten now 😂
spellslinger is medivh
Seems like they're giving melee more movement or slows. Could be ugly for casters in pvp. They could be adding more pvp talents to offset it, too, though.
Cataclysm was the best time for Hunter...SV Hunter.
LOL how did dark ranger score a B??? it fails to deliver on the theme, it fails mechanically, it fails. it's a C AT BEST.
Hunter got massively shafted yet again.
EDIT: HOW IS DARK RANGER TIED WITH SPELLSLINGER AND SOUL HARVESTER? guys... no. Get your heads out of the sand.
EDIT2: "Everybody plays hunter, druid or paladin so those are the hard ones to change" - meanwhile paladin and druid have had MULTIPLE reworks and a shitton of tuning... bro again hunters are down so bad. Inb4 a rework happens but it sucks rofl
Hellcaller looks a bit like the old demon form.
What are you smoking with Templar’s class fantasy and theme? It’s very lackluster. Hammers was not a good direction and adds no new or exciting flavor.
I think it fits for how paladins have classically been done for WoW, but I agree that it would have been WAY cooler with a blade theme.
@@thatepicwizardguy This is exactly it. What a missed opportunity!
how the HELL did you not talk AT ALL about Templar?! I was sooo excited to see what you think, but other than mentioning it being "insane" at the end of the Pally intro you completely skipped it >.> Consider me irritated
did you just skip templar with paladin?
They have it marked as s tier and people keep saying Templar feels great. But I do think they skipped it.
Archon's halo rings & passive damage /cooldown amps seem so boring, while it may feel really nice to play. It doesn't fit the whole Archon fantasy at all to me. The text description they add to the Archon Hero talents seem to be such a massive clickbait it isn't even funny.
I had hoped that they did something more like the following below for archon:
**HOLY**
You receive a new cooldown ability, that will act as a shapeshift. A big holy/spirit entity merges with you, granting you new powers for a brief duration.
A transformation that you can enter which grants you 4 new spells (perhaps replaces things such a smite, renew, etc or uses a new bar like rogue stealth or druid beast forms). Four buttons that either do a lot of damage, a strong st heal, a strong aoe heal and maybe something else. BUT during the transformation you'll be drained of your mana. Upon expiring or early tapping out you'll regain 50% of lost mana. Strong / long cooldown.
**SHADOW**
You receive a new cooldown ability, that will act as a shapeshift. A big shadow/void entity merges with you, granting you new powers for a brief duration.
A transformation that you can enter which grants you 4 new spells (perhaps replaces things such a mind blast, power word shield, etc or uses a new bar like rogue stealth or druid beast forms). BUT during the transformation you'll be drained of your health until you're 20% hp. Spell casts cost health during this cooldown. The less health you have, the more powerful your abilities. Upon hitting 20% hp/duration expiration or early tapping out you'll regain 60% of lost health. High risk, high reward.
I'ld say this or something similar to this would properly fit the Archon fantasy and numbers may need to be tweaked, but you got the idea! :3
Ffs i needed to stop playing hunter during Legion. And now it seems I will need to avoid my main again..... 😢
Hate how Matt just completely forgets and skips over Templar. Thanks Matt, showing my class alot of love...
Blizz is already showing Templar enough, youll be fine 😆
But still kind of silly to not cover it in a video that's titled "We Ranked >>>Every
What's going on here. Did Bellular get so lazy he won't even make his own videos anymore? It's like they replaced him with Clone Stewie.
Archon "The Halo Build" looks really cool, both for holy and shadow!
Still think it would be so much better if we get to become either a void entity or a holy entity and get access to 4 new buttons while we're channeling that form (shadow = health drain mechanic for power / holy = mana drain mechanic for power) and then get to decide when to leave the form early if necessary. Rather than the to me boring halo rings & cooldown amps.
Maybe a hot take, but bombs was never good survival flavor. I love having a melee hunter (fighting up close with my pet), but the bombs have always felt tacked on from a fantasy perspective.
Fighting in close range and throwing bombs/grenades at your enemy sounds like a fantastic idea in real life. I always wanted survi to be a mix of melee and ranged than can adapt on the fly - they could mix in a Dark Spear/Berserker flavor from W3 where you are throwing axes or spears from mid range (when target is moving) and can fight with them in melee if needed. In addition if target stands in place for long period of time then you can use traps (they could even add some silly mechanic like taunting and baiting bosses into traps to trigger them for extra dmg or something). Basically the improvise, adapt, overcome meme in one spec
Things that would have gotten me hyped: Full holy dps priest option (I hate shadow), full ranged dps pally option, hunters to not be boring as hell, evoker to lose the ugly transmog-phobic dracthyr form entirely, simplified elemental shaman rotation/buttons.
It’s not looking promising.
Nope disagree, Oracle is just bad (F tier) as holy and gives only more micro management...
Shamans pls
Really phoning in hunter huh (not you guys, blizz is). Annoying because beastmaster is the only one that feels horde. The other 2 are too elfy. Cark ranger is elfy, just spooky elfy. They need to rethink all 3 and they will not
I can't wait until the day they replace the Hunter Dev. Why is everything related to Survival Hunter just trash? This guy doesn't care about hunter at all. They rarely have any moments to shine. Just BM. Many of us don't like BM. There are 3 specs in the class. 90% of the play time in the last 8 years MM and SV have been among the 5 least played specs.
Can we just have a new dev. A dev that cares.
Farseer is very boring, they just gave ele its master but on ghost... xD
Maybe have someone who doesn't openly hate hunters review hunters. Like really your a child
I am like number 157
The classes i enojy have just become less and less over the years. Because of all the bloat, feels like this might just add more unnessesary buttons
Im sorry but rider and deathbringer are lackluster at best. oh wow we can ride a horse in combat..... deathbringer just reinforces the issues the spec has. meanwhile mages get a rework while dks have had the same playestyle for years now. Breath sucks to play and oblit just recently become okay to play.
I mean... rider summons the 4 horsemen and has some ocol (and powerful) shit going on. I'm sitting over here as a MM hunter in pure despair compared to you DKs haha both classes could really use a damn overhaul though... our shaman brothers and sisters as well.
@@thatepicwizardguy I feel ya brotha. Totally agree with mm and Shamans. I just see people raving about mounted combat and I’m just like 🤷🏽♂️. It’s cool to see them bring back the 4 horseman I just would’ve liked in a different way. I play mostly frost Dk so I guess we shall wait and see what happens haha
Man, I hate primordial wave. It doesn't vibe with the fantasy and doesn't feel good to use. Ik ik "BUT EVERYONE USES IT" I don't care. I got my arena set every season without using it and don't care about numbers.
Total garbage that a class as diverse as Shamans are being pigeon-holed into a multi target dot spec.
this is hatecraft
Oh thank god, a tier list. I’m finally allowed to have an opinion
stop yawning jesus
Matt’s fine for flavor but did 95% of the talking in this video. Bellular?
DEUS VULT
Yeah you may not like Grummz, dude, but you being on the side of Sweet Baby, Inc and trying to obfuscate that for so long isn’t hilarious- it is sad.
I wouldn’t start thinking you are collecting W’s when you are so obviously on the wrong side of this whole shitshow.
As much as I like these guys, I think Bell would eat a bag of off shrimp for $4k if an industry official told him to
@@OrchinX yep. Undoubtedly. Like Asmon, I dig their content but they are out to lunch on a lot of that stuff
I see yall too were ripped right out of the video by the mention at 23:22... Still I would like to see what's this evidence they've "found" is.
The subjective Fantasy Rating has the same weight as teh Gameplay rating. Good grief what memers.
Of course its subjectiv, what else could it be?
You cant make objective Statements about Gameplay Feeling, lol.
obviously its subjective.
Oracle is 0
Oracle is fine. The biggest outrage came from folks confidently misunderstanding the original design & now it's just WoW boomers mad at support stuff being in the game.
What I can get behind is that Archon & Voidweaver are both extremely cool, more-so than Oracle.