Where do the Phoenix Suns go from here?
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
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Can we give them Monty back? 😂
We’d have to give up draft picks for them to take him.
Monty lost 28 straight even with a bunch of kids that’s horrible
Detroit trades Monty Williams for the real MVP Bol Bol
I think they know he wasn't good.
he's not saving shit
I would've died a little inside if I had to watch another year of Suns basketball with Monty, geriatric CP3, and or Deandre Ayton, and I ended up dying inside in a whole different way. This is a new type of hell.
This thing of not trying to win via draft is high risk low reward. We've seen this fail so many times. Just go through the draft until you get a top 10 player. Build from that.
It’s so bleak for the suns, this is probably the most pack ever smoked in a 3 year span of any team
Guys really went bands to bands with the Nets for bleakest future in the NBA and won. That's... somthing
They shouldn’t have made the Beal move just because of the new 2nd apron rule. And who is Beal’s agent!? He’s the goat, how did he not lose that no trade clause!?
I’m sure there’s some joke to make about the suns and Icarus
The Phoenix Sons fell to the sea
Flew too close to Bradley Beal
They created a roster as if we're in a video game, sat back, and said _"Go. Do the basketballs"._ This is what they get.
Idk how to explain it fully, but the moves and roster the suns have made is crazy culmination of Greed and Stupidity. It seriously confuses me why they blew up a championship roster for 2 mid range maestros
I agree, To be fair, neither of those players were the problem in themselves, even tho I do agree getting both makes little sense. Getting both at the expensive of the rest of your roster is Asinine
New owner syndrome
If you're actually curious and not just interested in shitting on the Suns, its because that roster wasn't a championship roster. They had flamed out 2 playoff series in a row and the 22-23 regular season pre-trade deadline they didn't look good because they were decimated by injuries and the role players weren't stepping up. Booker isn't a 1st option on a championship team without injury luck like they had in 2021, and CP3 was declining. With Cam Johnson's extension, they would owe:
Booker ~$55 million a year
CP3 ~30 million a year
Ayton ~$30 million a year
Bridges ~$20 million a year
Cam Johnson ~$25 million a year
Which puts them in the luxury tax with their starting lineup, and gives them only a taxpayer mle for depth (~5 million), and whichever players they already had bird rights to. In terms of trades:
Jae Crowder had quit on the team because they were going to start Cam Johnson over him. Ironically enough, Cam Johnson tore his meniscus early that season and Jae would've started, but he refused to rejoin the team. That's $10 million in salary for a bench player that wasn't playing and would've gotten nothing in a trade if he wasn't traded as part of the KD trade.
They traded Ayton because he had given up late in the series they ended up losing in 2022 and 2023. He wasn't happy with his role and didn't want to buy in anymore. If they kept him they'd have even less depth because they got a starting center and guard in Nurkic and Allen for him.
They traded for Beal despite his contract because it was largely for free (Landry Shamet and CP3, who they were going to waive to get under the second apron since only $15 million of his $30 million contract was guaranteed). When you trade for a 35 year old Kevin Durant, you are trying to win now, not create flexibility for when an age 37 season that you don't even know how washed he will be by.
As a Suns fan, I am obviously disappointed in this season. But I would rather the front office took a swing at a championship and lost than have maintained a good but not championship caliber roster. Super teams tend to be better the 2nd year than the 1st, and I don't think the team is built to win, but the alternative wasn't really any better.
@@marcr196 So, I'm curious: you'd not have done anything differently? Because the team wasn't bad, but the way it was constructed is weird.
@@marcr196 Yeah that's actually the sad part. There wasn't anything super great before they traded for KD and Beal so I can't even be too mad about that.
Man I’m so glad the Suns imploded. No successful team should ever be constructed the way this year’s Suns were, and I’m glad we won’t have copycats trying to get a bunch of big names with no defense or depth hoping to win a title
I really don't get why Durant doesn't shoot more threes. He's got one of the best shots in history and to even contest it you have to put one of your taller guys on the perimeter, clearing up the middle.
I don't get it either.
2 PHX videos in 6 hours? Excited for the rest of the playoff videos!
Roster construction is absolutely not on Vogel. The inability to make rotation adjustments (EG 40 minutes in game 4 guarding KAT ffs) and not getting the 3 max players to buy in is absolutely on Vogel. It was a problem for 82 games that Minny feasted on. He's a "championship winning coach" in the same way Doc Rivers is a championship winning coach.
and yet again we have another case of coaching not being the first thing a team thinks of. maybe its my european mind not being able to comprehend it but every "superstar" roster in football or european basketball starts with the coach.
why would you put a defensive minded coach in a team with three offensive stars? of course they were frustrated with the offense just being turns. i get the roster was poorly built, but why wont you try to ¿flourish (is that a word xD)? and all out offense. try something like Indiana idk. maybe someone can help me understand what was Suns philosophy this year
Can't really do anything like indiana cus you don't have a distributor or playmaker like Halliburton. They brought in Vogel really because very few coaches can create even an average NBA defense with the roster that Phoenix had. The mindset was that Vogel can control the defensive infrastructure and lineups while being able to trust his stars in controlling the offense more.
@@ramtheman8044 I get it. Looks like this was just worst case scenario
I'm not a fan of "just let them play offense". I prefer having the team take the best shot possible: dunk or rim, open 3, mid range on that order. You need players with all of those on lock. If you just "let them play" there won't be coherent attempts.
I liked how the suns were playing when beal was out. Once he came back, the offense was a mess and you didnt know who the #1 would be.
Grayson has agreed a 70m extension.
I'm almost glad I'm a Pistons fan and not a Suns fan. At least we theoretically can have a bright future. The Suns? How ironic of a name, for their future is as bleak as the thought of being trapped in an iron maiden.
I’m not even a suns fan but I have to say this is delusional. Y’all in year 0 of a 35 year rebuild.
@@Dee-GBEI did say almost. With Tom Gores, nothing is possible.
@@nicholastricarico2957 I’m sorry 😢 at least yall do have picks. Suns SOL until 2032 smh
I think the Pistons can only go up from here, but success depends on not having a shitty coach. He was great for another high draft pick tho.
@@VeteranVandal Was he? Because ignoring the possibility of the lottery screwing us again, we can't properly develop said high draft picks, so what is the point?
Durant back to OKC for Picks? Idk how you make the salary work lmao
If they trade Booker and KD they could get around 5 firsts, or 3 firsts and 2 good prospects. Then trade Beal with 2 first's attached, for 1-2 year salary filler players and second round picks. Those would get them out of the hole they dug for themselves, they would be a bad team, but it wouldnt look hopeless until the 2030's.
Its funny because I say the same thing about superteams. Fit matters and you can’t let someone say “imma get two stars and run the table”. There has to be an identity and a certain way to play things. I was never upon board with any super team Russ joined or constructed (PG and Melo / AD and Lebron) because it never made sense what the team identity would be. So now KD is seeing it happen again.
Mike Conley is a really solid defensive PG still at 36.
Dude still has some left from the Grit & Grind Grizzlie days.
Damn, never been this early before. Anyways, love the content man keep goin. Growing a good community here🫡
3 of the biggest unchecked egos in the league? And they thought there would be chemistry? Interesting
Kevin Durant to the Atlanta Hawks for Trae Young (along with Bruno Fernando and Garrison Mathews).
Bol Bol to the San Antonio Spurs, as a free agent.
Just crazy. It often seems like sports teams owners must be good at business bc a lot of them made a fortune in order to buy a team but then they go and do this dumb stuff.
running a good nba franchise is very different from running a successful business. also i'm pretty sure a good deal of nba owners come with inherited wealth, don't quote me on that though. james dolan comes to mind.
LMAO, most billionaires, including Ishbia (especially him) are nepo babies. They inherited their money.
bro thinks billionaire nepo babies are actually smart
At least it was better than cp3 n Ayton . I appreciate ishbia for the Durant move , its dope seeing him in the valley , they just made poor moves with Beal and nurkic . I still think it’ll be an exciting era of suns ball in the future
Hell, they could get CP3 back this summer 🤷🏽♂️
one must imagine Sisyphus happy bc this is so funny to me.
how did they get swept before the lakers of all teams, who people would say is worse than the suns LOL
KD asking one time ago how he isn't in the goat conversation and then this happens
Beal wanting to win a ring and then having a quote come out about never being swept.... and then just having a terrible night shooting and getting swept
SO MANY THINGS are funny about this and I cannot wait for this to keep going wrong
Icarus is a more fitting comparison
Being stuck with Beal, and having no draft capital has gotta hurt. Plus they are kinda screwed because they need both a point guard, and big defenders. No such thing as a two-way PG big. The future looks dim for the Suns.
Beal is about to overtake Ben Simmons as worst contract in the league
There is no success in the modern NBA unless you have rebounding and a consistent backcourt. The Suns sturuggled in both of those areas all season and they have to address that in the offseason.
Love how your voice is cracking when you read Suns' future picks.
Kofie you a true inspiration, always dropping heat!!!!
Going top heavy is not bad it’s the for that matters more either all the players compliment each other or every player does the same thing at a high level ie scoring or defense.
FYI, the issue that a lot of players have with the corner catch and shoot roles is that it's hard to get into rhythm and get hot if you're expected to shoot after not having been on the bench and not having done much shooting beforehand. Worse to be blamed if you miss when you were put in that weird situation. Some of that doesnt apply to KD but i can understand the sentiment
Well you should give the corner people also cut options and other plays to perform. If you leave this to be simply organised by the players, they aren't solving this coherently.
they are cooked!
KD to Minnesota next year. He just wants to hoop no questions.
If that were true, he'd still be at golden state. Or be in the BIG3 😂
He wants to win, but it has to be a big 3 with him as the figurehead for some reason
new early 2010s Nets
To me, the Suns and (to an extent) the Lakers are the best examples of why you shouldn't be going all in without taking long enough to figure out if that player fits the team. Sure, the Nuggets don't have a whole ton of draft capital, but they're picking up the right guys for their team. The Suns saw a star and just went for it. The only contract worse is probably Zach Lavine maybe Jordan Poole.
Heck, if Poole gets back on track like he did in the 2nd half of the last season, he can flipped as well if the front office wants to go that route. In short, Poole is moveable and Beal isn’t.
How do you think this midrange heavy roster would have done in the pre-splash era of basketball? I reckon they'd have killed it in 2006
the only thing i realised with all this is the wizards did actually win, the russ trade and the beal trade completely derailed two legit contenders.
Superteams are grown, not bought on marketplace. This has been proven over last decade or so.
Can we please get a magic Cavs video🙏🤔
The bottom. Ain't no up from here. Unless they make it work next season, it's all downhill here.
even though the westbrook trade was similarly bad, i could at least see why it happened, i genuinely have no idea why the beal trade got the go ahead. arguably worse than russ overall because of the size of that contract still, and the fact they basically gave up a chance at drafting high in the entire 2020s for bradley beal?
They can't go anywhere, so much money on those three, with Beal not being able to be traded and basically no way to get young talent due to their decisions and giving away draft picks, this is going to be bad.
KD was better off trying to stick it out with BK. Tht was a real big 3. Had they remained patient they probably the current defending champs rn. Tht Beal contract is literally meant for him to stay in DC. All those super maxes are designed for that star to stay for good. Most guys tht take the super max and get traded end up in worst spots. PHX traded for tht lol.
They need to blow it up. trade Kd and book hope you can come off of beal if not they might need to do a buyout. They need to get a bunch of picks and draft well.
I don't know if you read the comment section, but here's some context and replies to points you made in the video, as a Suns fan who has closely followed the team.
Replying to some points you made:
- 4:30, You bring up Denver and say they only have one all star. But, all stars aren't created equally. It is one thing to build a championship team around a player who is best in the world caliber, like Jokic. It is another to build a team around one all star in Devin Booker, who is great, but not capable of being the entire engine of an elite offense. You can't really learn team construction from the Nuggets without grappling with the fact they drafted an all time great in the 2nd round during a taco bell commercial! That's not really replicable
- 7:08, You bring up Beal being on the team, and that it would've been better to just have role players. How would they have gotten those role players? They traded a clearly in decline Chris Paul and mediocre role player in Landry Shamet for Beal. Before the Beal trade, reports were that the Suns were going to waive Chris Paul just to get under the second luxury tax apron to get the taxpayer midlevel exception (which is ~$5 million) and sign someone, because no one was interested in trading for CP3. Does Landry Shamet and a $5 million contract player really make this team better than it would with Beal? I think both are bad, but Beal provides the higher ceiling, which you go for 10 out of 10 times when you have 35 year old Kevin Durant on your team and have no idea when age is going to catch up with him. You later acknowledge this at 8:15
- 9:55, You credit the timberwolves defense! I don't think enough people acknowledge the Wolves part in this. They are a team who has chemistry, a young star who can occasionally be the best player in a series offensively, and high defensive ceiling in a league that has stopped calling as many fouls as they did at the beginning of the regular season. A lot of people were saying the Suns were a bad matchup for them, but junking up the Suns actions is the Suns weakness, because they just default into isoing.
- 10:30 Their offense did not have a lot of pick and roll. According to nba tracking data, they ran the 27th most in the NBA. Whatever source mentioned that is wrong.
- 11:44 This is the issue with KD's mentality. If he really was mad at being relegated to the corner and the source Shams used isn't just stirring the pot, KD doesn't seem to understand his weaknesses. On-ball, teams just bring physicality and get in his space, and he becomes turnover prone. Booker and Beal both have better court vision than him too. He can run the occasional pick and roll with a big that can finish, but the Suns didn't have one of those. He also needs to rest on offense because of the importance of his weak side defense.
- 16:00 The Suns do have picks. 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030. They're pick swaps, but they'll still be first round picks they can trade or use in those years.
- 17:30 I'm hoping that this year is the year they need to learn to adjust how they play.
- 21:43 Allen just signed an extension through 2028. They also have Royce's bird rights (or early bird rights?)
TL;DR
The Suns team that went to the finals ran its course. They were no longer a championship team. Booker isn't a talent capable of being the first option on a championship team, especially with CP3 in decline. If look at how Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson played this year, do you really think they're capable of being #2 and #3 offensive options on a championship team? Ayton gave up in the playoffs 2 years in a row. They're probably running it back with minimal tinkering until the summer of 2026, when Nurkic and KD come off the books. They'll have their 2031 and 2032 pick if they want to use them, then retool and have a completely different team by the time Beal comes off the books the following year.
the breathless coverage about mat ishbia the genius heroically riding in and snatching up KD is looking worse and worse in retrospect
I dont understand how any GM coukd think this roster construction is a good idea. Like, youve got 3 players who fill the exact same role. Your roster is reduntant twice over.
What green screen do you have?
Grayson Allen is signed for 4 more years @70M total, but yeah it looks terrible for em
koffie content :)
Just got a noti saying they might fire Frank Vogel…while watching this video lmao
Beal was not needed. Should have persued role players to fit Durant and Booker.
🔥🔥🔥
Yo Rusty
Anyone with that amount of turn over from coaching and roster standpoints is screwed. Where do they go from here? Nowhere.
pistons point differential against them was -30 💀
what do you do about a problem like the Suns?
Sell the team
Clearly they have too many point guards, too many centers, too much defense, and not enough mid range shooting,
The only answer is to trade for Lavine or Derozan 💀
I guess Wizards fans rejoice! (I'm not one of them, I am a fan of a mid team since 2011).
Suns rebuild franchise
To Cancun
Suns have 1 realistic option this offseason: call up Sam Presti and ask him how many 1sts they'd be willing to part with to bring the prodigal son home.
It actually makes sense for everybody - OKC looks like a potential dynasty in the making and adding even this version of Kevin Durant to that young core speeds up their timeline to title contenders to as soon as this upcoming season (and they have the draft capital to get the deal done without parting with anyone essential or semi-essential to their title window), plus they get the feel-good moment of bringing the team's first superstar back home to bring that whole storyline full circle. KD gets to come back and steal page out of Lebron's book and possibly hoisting a Finals trophy while shouting "Oklahoma! This one's for YOU!" which helps wash away the memories of him leaving town to join a dynasty somewhere else and then accomplishing fuck all at the next 2 stops where he got to be top banana, plus probably at least 1 title that isn't held against his legacy like the 2 golden state ones.
And phoenix gets at least 2 quality role players (I'm guessing just to match salaries it would have to include Lu Dort, Kenrich williams, and Josh Giddey) and the draft capital they get could be used to dump Bradley Beal for a couple of half decent role players, with enough left over to attach to Nurkic to get at least a minor upgrade at center. They're still a 1st round exit, but it's much less embarrassing than being a 1st round exit with 3 max salary players, and a 1st round exit is easier to sell to their fans if it looks like they're retooling in a younger direction around a younger star in Booker surrounded by a bunch of scrappy role players overachieving to even make the playoffs while they try to build young players up into stars next to Booker. Plus it would probably help Booker's confidence and development if he was once again the best player/biggest name on his own team again instead of either being outshined by KD or the talk around Brad Beal nit living up to his super max and how bad that trade was distracting from anything good he or the team as a whole accomplishes
Phoenix also can't blow it up completely and rebuild - Ishbia just bought the team less than 2 years ago and already forced the GM to trade/fire everybody not named Booker from the Finals team to try to make the team better. It's one level of embarrassment to admit the KD, Beal, and Ayton trades were mistakes and have to commit to a retool style rebuild this early into his ownership tenure, it's a completely different level of humiliation to commit to a firesale rebuild. Ishbia could maybe stomach the former, no new owner could stomach the latter.
They gotta look at the bargain bin and try to adjust the role players😂
There is nothing left to do for this team except pray.
KD just wants to hoop bruh. Why you trying to force him to understand spacing and good offense?
The refs were way too involved in the last game. They didn’t favor one side or the other but it really disrupted the flow of the game.
A reminder that the best player on a bad team is still a bad player. Way to go, Brad Beal, on making to the Grabbing the Bag Hall of Fame.
Westbrook killed the triple double, Durant killed the super team. Only way to win more than 1 championship is to draft and develop talent.
Trading for Bradley Beal was the dumbest most disgusting thing any GM has ever done. Nothing that man had ever done had indicated he was secretly a key piece of any competitive roster. KD and Book probably coulda made the finals with Cam Payne, Nurk, & Bol Bol
The no-trade clause is the funniest part of it too. Like, Atlanta could come to James Jokes (autocorrect not intentional but leaving it because it works) and offer to bail him out by simply swapping Bogdanovic for Beal (which is a trash trade but also somehow probably a win-win) and Beal could STILL SAY NO BECAUSE HE JUST LIKES HIS APARTMENT
booker come home
years of crushing mediocrity at best
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