So true, after all Beethoven was the German and Mozart the Austrian; I am german myself and I think germans tend to be profound in their thinking and acting, they tend to be serious, sober and reliable and do "right" whatever they do- that is not just a cliche - and still many have a very romantic side and the love for nature; whereas the Austrians are charming peeple, they like beauty, elegance and harmony; maybe they stress the form rather than the content; in Germany it's the other way round most of the time...
@@theoderich1168 With all due respect, Sir, Austria did not exist in 1756. Taken from Wikipedia: "As can be seen, evidence is available to support a variety of opinions about Mozart's nationality. Thus, he was Austrian because the town in which he was born and raised is now in Austria, and because he made his career in Vienna, the Austrian capital.[39] He was German because he felt himself to be German, and because the residual and moribund empire that included Salzburg was labeled as and felt to be German.[40] He was neither Austrian nor German because Salzburg was independent, neither part of the Habsburg Austrian possessions nor part of a (yet to exist) German nation-state.[41]"
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): " I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto {the Third Piano Concerto} much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant! I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works. "
And then BACH enters the room to put the two toddlers to bed... Both, Beethoven and Mozart, admitted that they couldnt hold a candle to the god of harmony. Beethoven simply called Bach "the ocean" and Mozart even worshipped Bach's sons who taught him.
Both Mozart and Beethoven were equally impressive with their abilities. You had Mozart who was a child prodigy and created symphonies at such an astounding young age and did complicated pieces like it was nothing. And then you had Beethoven who formed huge, epic masterpieces while being unable to physically hear his own genius. No wonder they're both so legendary
Beethoven could hear for most of his composing life. His deafness came on gradually, beginning to lose his hearing in his mid -late 20s, and was mostly - but not completely - deaf by the time he wrote some of his greatest masterpieces, like his Missa Solemnis and his 9th Symphony. He heard music when he still had his sense of hearing, so even when he began to lose it, he knew in his head and understood what he wrote should and would sound like.
Both great no doubt…I think what sets Mozart apart is that he only lived to 35, and wrote masterpiece Operas, choral works, and concertos for a ton of instruments. Oh, and was a virtuoso piano and viola player.
Ron Riggs What a joker are you! Of course not . I was thinking rather in some passages of the last Beethoven’s string quartets. If you listen them in the morning it’s sure you don’t stand up of bed!! 😥🤯 😂
The primary difference between Mozart and Beethoven was that Mozart's music represents the end of an era: the pristine perfectionism of the Classical aesthetic. Whereas Beethoven's music represents the beginning of an era: the raw passion of Romanticism, and ultimately Impressionism and 20th century atonal harmony. Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Debussy, Scriabin, Schoenberg, Webern, Rachmaninoff, Messiaen: all composers whose work is clearly rooted in the convention-smashing of Beethoven's late works. Mozart didn't bring us into the 20th century. Beethoven did.
You cited Chopin as a composer influenced by Beethoven but I don't agree with your observation. Chopin admired Beethoven but I don't think the former incorporated the latter's style, borrow or imitate his stylistic templates liked his other contemporaries did.
Everything you described is accurate, and boils down to a natural progression, as societal and cultural norms changed while being driven by the music itself. A sort of symbiosis....one thing being overlooked, is that despite their differences, there are also some similarities. Mozart could be as dark as Beethoven and I would offer Mozart's Requiem Mass as proof of that. And even the brooding Beethoven could be happy and playful at times through his music. They met each other briefly when Beethoven was but fourteen. I believe Beethoven's father wanted Mozart to instruct his son, but Mozart lacked the time. A quotation by Mozart goes to effect; " keep an eye on this young lad, he'll make a great stir in the world someday". Obviously he was correct :-)
@@josephfisher1691 Mozart could never really stay in that dark place though, maybe it was his personality that always wanted to return for the sunshine. Whereas, often I find Beethoven is just trying to find the sunshine.
@@Warstub...agreed. Their personalities were polar opposites, and Mozart was subjected to more stringent "rules", hence the larger secular catalogue. By all accounts, "Mo" was a bit more of a rockstar in his behavior, (philandering, drinking, gambling, hustling billiards, etc.) Hard to remain in a "dark place". He was touring in Paris when his mother died. That wrecked him for time, as did the death of his father. Beethoven, conversely, was very moral, astute, and regimented. He would love from afar, and pine for what he denied himself. As his deafness advanced, so too did his depression. Some argue that it was his sheer agony that propelled the absolute majesty of his work....either way, what a beautiful legacy we can ALL enjoy....😎👍🎼🙏
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant! I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works." ( Composers On Music: Eight Centuries of Writings , Josiah Fisk, Jeff Nichols, Technical Group Leader High Performance Computational Chemistry Group Jeff Nichols | p.134~135 )
@@logannslm1593 He did, but his father wanted a prodigy, not an iconoclast. So, he tried to moderate his genius to fit until that oppression killed him.
All the people saying Mozart's music is light, happy and relaxing - well there is plenty of Mozart music that is this way. But Mozart also wrote dark and heartbreaking music as we have it in some of the later Beethoven works. For example : the Requiem, Piano Concerto 20, 2nd mvt of Piano Concerto 23, Opera Don Giovanni, Piano Sonata nr. 8, Piano Sonata nr. 14, Maurerische Trauermusik K477, Piano trio K442, Fantasy in F Minor K608, Violin Sonata No. 21 K304, Rondo in A minor K511...
I believe they're hinting at the character of the music rather than the tone, even in most of the pieces you mentioned Mozart still maintains the playful character of his music, like a tragic comedy if you were to find an example in cinema, like Chaplin. but Beethoven has a dramatic and keeps a very serious character throughout his career. But ultimately I agree that both composers have out of character pieces that have ironically become some of their most celebrated and cherished creations, like the requiem by Mozart, which is genuinely "dark" piece of music, and the 9th by Beethoven, which is one of the most upbeat and happy tunes in all classical music.
Thanks for pointing this out. When I was in high school, I first listened to Mozart's Requiem and it totally changed my life. It was more than just beauty, it was so deep and powerful. Mozart was amazing. Don't get me wrong, Beethoven was also incredible, but people dissing on Mozart and saying he was just about pretty notes don't know Mozart
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant! I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works." ( Composers On Music: Eight Centuries of Writings , Josiah Fisk, Jeff Nichols, Technical Group Leader High Performance Computational Chemistry Group Jeff Nichols | p.134~135 )
When I was young I loved the emotional challenge of Beethoven. Now that I am older I love the ethereal resolution of Mozart. Both are magnificent and it is wonderful that we get to choose among so much music to suit our mood in any moment.
Mozart is incredibly special to me. I delved into his music during a very dark time in my life, and it helped me want to live again. Even though it is something tinged with sadness, his music has an incredible and intoxicating sense of humor and optimism. I literally feel like I am high while listening to it lmao. That said, I also love Beethoven: his music reaches unprecedented levels. It is exhilarating, invigorating, full of passion and surprises. It encompasses a wide range of emotion, from the darkest fury to the greatest joy.
Mozart was concerned with perfection. His music is like an intricate crystal sculpture, something to be admired from all directions. The beauty of Mozart asks nothing but to be admired. Beethoven opened music to emotion. Something like the Fifth reaches out and grabs you by your shirt, shakes you till your teeth rattle and says,“ I dare you not to listen.”
On the contrary. Historically speaking, Beethoven was the perfectionist. He was known as a terror amongst his pupils and would have a lot of erasures in his manuscripts because he simply cannot be satisfied. Mozart, on the other hand, was carefree and more in-tune with his child-like personality which was more susceptible to emotions.
@@glh7728 Yes, I agree. It's stupid and ignorant to associate Beethoven with a singular expression of 'emotion' as though nothing in the past existed, as though happiness in music isn't an emotion, as though the pursuit of the perfect fugue and all the possibilities of music isn't an emotion. Beethoven opened music up to the darker aspects of emotion, the more troubled and disruptive aspects that up to that point had only been touched on, but rarely developed. Mozart's music is filled with just as much passion and emotion, as is Bach's; Mozart's is just of the more joyous kind.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant! I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works." ( Composers On Music: Eight Centuries of Writings , Josiah Fisk, Jeff Nichols, Technical Group Leader High Performance Computational Chemistry Group Jeff Nichols | p.134~135 )
fromanotherstar I've thought about that too. Mozart died around age 35, so if he lived an extra 20 - 30 years, he would of lived a good amount into the 'romantic' era. Who knows what Mozart would of composed in those extra years, and what would change since Mozart being alive with Beethoven and how that would change his music and the music of the 1800s.
+Victor P. If there really is some after-life kinda like you see in some movies, I would LOVE to have a drink with mozart, bach, beehthoven, tchaikovsky, chopin etc. and talk with all of them about music! :D
+MCMeru From what I've read, Bach would likely realize quickly that he was a major contributor and inspiration to the rest and then just go home... a very short conversation if not challenging them all to a Keyboard duel
+fromanotherstar Yes right?, and how Bach, haendel, couperin would've played in those pianos. How would've Beethoven and all other composers played modern pianos, thinking of it is just an utopic dream but very interesting. Nice comment it makes you think a lot.
+mlng No music is perfect, it cannot be perfect by its own definition, however, what people mean by saying Mozart's music is perfect, is that the flow of his compositions, the harmony, every note in the melodic is just as you expect it to go and just as smooth, which gives a sense of perfection, not as in the best possible, but as in it is exactly how it should be. Some other composers, Beethoven in this case, disliked that idea, he wanted more chaos and less order, he did sharp 'turns of events', surprises and just things you don't expect. His life was truly imperfect with all the traumas and depressions in his life and he reflects those imperfections in his music. I especially absolutely love how Beethoven did that in his 8th Sonata in C minor, Op.13.
Imo that couldn't be a better term for late Beethoven. Profound is exactly the feeling you get when you listen to the fugue in his 14th string quartet, etc. But middle period Beethoven is more "passion" I'd say.
if you compare late Mozart works like Fantasia for organ in F minor K608 with Hammerklavier Sonata last movement, you can only conclude Hammerklavier is waaay too long-winded and boring honestly. The last movement sounds like it's going nowhere. Do you Beethoven fans honestly enjoy that crap? Mozart's fantasia is much more passionate and complex at the same time.
Yes! And I could listen to Mozart all day. Not so, Beethoven. Bach too, though we're not talking about Bach. I feel as though I'm touching God's hands when I listen to Bach.
@JASON P. Roberts Honestly this Is purely my thought I know you might think differently but Bach is very boring to listen to I just don't like it. That narrows to Beethoven and Mozart for me If i had to listen to either of their music for a whole year nonstop I'd most definitely go with Beethoven Fur Elise. Imo Mozart doesn't come close to Beethoven level.
My favorite composers are Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Bach, Mozart, and Chopin. If I were to compare them... Beethoven: A mix of many emotions and phrases the most prominent being dramatic Tchaikovsky: Tender, happy, with dramatics thrown in when needed Bach: One I can only describe as suspenseful elegance Mozart: Pleasant with an air of elegance. Chopin: A master of the dark and haunting tone, with the elegant waltz here and there to even it out
Tchaikovsky is tender and happy to your ears? What do you usually listen to of his works? From 1877 onwards most of his music is infused with a great sense of tragedy. And happy only in longing for happiness.
Mozart's music is jubilantly romantic, like joyous notes jumping on the surface of a majestic lake and elevating it to a state of ineffable beauty. Whereas Beethoven's music is at once profoundly engaging.and gorgeously dreamlike, where the notes aim to explore and expose the surprising mysteries of the hidden depths.
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉 Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them. Check out this works of Beethoven. Op.116 (1801-02) Bundeslied Op.122 (1824) Op.65 Op.108 (1817) 8 Lieder Op.52 (1790-1805) WoO.90 WoO.140 (1811) Song "Mit Einem Gemalten Band. Leichtlich und mit Grazie Vorgetragen" in F major Op.83 No.3 (1810) "Das Glück der Freundschaft" Op.88 (1803) 6 Songs Op.75 (1809) "Adelaide" Op.46 (1795) Opferlied in E major WoO.126 (1794-1802) Opferlied in E major Op.121b (1822-23) Military March WoO.24 (1816) WoO.29 WoO.44a WoO.20 (1810) Military March WoO.19 (1808) WoO.155 (1813) Op.17 Trio for 2 oboes and english horn in C major Op.87 (1794) WoO.153 WoO.18 Op.105 (1817-18) WoO.23 (1810) WoO.37 "Der Mann von Wort" Op.99 (1816) "Merkenstein" Op.100 (1814) Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803) Cantata "Lobkowitz" for Voice, Chorus & Piano in E-flat major WoO.106 (1823) Lied "Neue Liebe, neues Leben" in C major WoO.127 (1799) Lied " Der Gesang der Nachtigall" in C major WoO.141 (1813) Canon "Esel aller Esel, hi ha" Hess.277 Canon WoO.162 Canon " Kurtz ist der Sehmerz, und ewig der Freud" WoO.163 (1813) Canon "Das Reden" WoO.168b Canon "Das Schweigen" WoO.168a Canon "Hofmann und Kein Hofmann" WoO.180 Canon "Das Göttliche" in E major WoO.185 Canon "Schwenke" WoO.187 (1824) Canon "Ewig dein" WoO.161 Canon "Glück zum neuen Jahr" WoO.165 Canon "Ich bitt' dich" WoO.172 Canon "Hol' euch der Teufel! B'hüt euch Gott!" WoO.173 Canon "Da ist das Werk" WoO.197 Canon "Freu dich des Lebens" WoO.195 Canon "Bester Magistrat, Ihr friert" WoO.177 Canon "Es muss sein" WoO.196 Canon "Sankt Petrus war ein Fels" WoO.175 Canon "Gedenket heute an Baden" No.1 WoO.181 Canon "Gehabt euch wohl" No.2 WoO.181 Canon "Tugend ist Kein leerer Name" No.3 WoO.181 Canon "Bester Herr Graf" WoO.183 Canon "Falstafferel" WoO.184 Canon "Ars longa, vita brevis" WoO.192 Canon "Gott ist eine feste Burg" WoO.188 Canon "Ich war hier, Doktor!" WoO.190 Canon "Abbé Stadler" in B-flat major WoO.178 (1820) Canon "Doktor, sperrt das Tor dem Tod"in C major WoO.189 (1825) Rondo for Piano in G major "Rage over a lost penny" Op.129 (1795-98) Andante and Variations for Mandolina & Piano in D major WoO.44b (1796) Sonatina for Mandolina & Piano in C major WoO.44a (1796) WoO.26 12 German Dances for orchestra WoO.8 (1795) Duet for clarinet and bassoon in F WoO.27 WoO.99 (1796 or 1801-03) Septet Op.20 First movement from Symphony No.6 Op.68 "pastoral" Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony No.8 Op.93 WoO.99 (1800) Serenade for flute, violín & viola in D major Op.25 (1801) And Sonatinas, songs, arias, lieder for voice and many many more.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
It is so sad that Mozart passed away only just as Beethoven was beginning to find his feet as a composer. Mozart was naturally influential on Beethoven. But how influential would Beethoven have been on Mozart had the latter lived to hear some of LvB's groundbreaking works? What would Mozart's symphonies and concertos of the early 19th century be like? What would an opera inspired by Beethoven's musical ideas and interpreted by the greatest musical genius the world has seen sounded like? And how would that in return inspire Beethoven to further explore, improve and perfect his musical rebelliousness? The fact that the world was robbed of this musical relationship pains me.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
While both were great in their own right, it seems the greatest minds in the classical era of music seem to be of the sense that Mozart was king. Mozart is the highest, the culminating point that beauty has attained in the sphere of music. (Tchaikovsky) Mozart is the most inaccessible of the great masters. (Artur Schnabel) Beethoven I take twice a week, Haydn four times, and Mozart every day! (Rossini) The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts. (Richard Wagner) In Bach, Beethoven and Wagner we admire principally the depth and energy of the human mind; in Mozart, the divine instinct. (Edvard Grieg)
Also as a musician myself but I have no dog in this race because I can appreciate them all but one has to be careful with quotes from other musicians about other musicians that they admire because we often speak over the top and use exaggerations to make a point especially about someone we admire and sometimes we will do it for some we do not care for much if it is in fashion or politically beneficial. In other words often we can be over generous with our accolades. Not saying that is case but offering an alternative view.
Thanks Robert for all the time, effort, and energy you put into your sharing of your joy and knowledge of music with us. I have learned so much from you and thus enjoy classical piano so much more as a result. Wish I was in the market for a piano as I would certainly purchase it from you!!!
Listening to Mozart I want to drink Champagne, the effervescence of the music, Beethoven I want to sip a lovely single malt scotch, the complex aromas floral notes and smokiness both are so Glorious.
I know what he's getting at, but I would put it differently. Mozart is about symmetry and balance, whereas Beethoven's music is somehow both _unexpected_ and yet, at the same time, _necessary._ That is to say, the first time you hear a piece of music by Beethoven, it will often go in completely unexpected directions--but somehow, whatever direction it goes in always seems like it was _inevitable_ and _necessary._ Take the finale of Beethoven's 8th symphony, for example. In the 4th movement of Beethoven's 8th, the main theme (in F major) is rather strangely, and obnoxiously, interrupted by the basses and cellos blurting out a C#. After this interruption, the main F major theme continues on its original path, back in the key of F major. Every time the F major theme appears again, the same ritual is carried out: The main theme is partially stated in F major, a C# interrupts for a second, and then the main theme continues on its way back in F major again. Eventually, this sets up a kind of precedent, so that when the main F major theme appears for the last time and, once again, is interrupted by the C#, we are fully expecting the music to jump back into F major and continue on its merry way. But that's not what happens: instead, the F major theme is interrupted by the C#, and the C# acts as a pivot note, swinging the music into F# minor. This sudden launch into F# minor is really very surprising, and yet it's perfectly logical because C# _is the dominant of F sharp minor._ In other words, Beethoven's music is totally unexpected, but somehow, at the same time, it also seems to unfold with a sort of logical inevitability or necessity. This paradox of Beethoven is at the root of what people sometimes refer to as Beethoven having one foot in the classical era and one foot in the romantic era. I think a better way to approach it is to think of Beethoven as a composer of the Age of the Enlightenment: his music is both unpredictable or non-deterministic on the one hand, and on the other hand is also permeated by a kind of rational lawfulness. It's as though Beethoven is the musical answer to the Kantian conception of freedom and reason as being inextricably conjoined. The result is music which totally eschews all of our expectations, is consequently deeply rebellious, and yet simultaneously exemplifies discipline and orderliness. That is to say, Beethoven's music is a law unto itself, it is totally self-sufficient, and that gives it dignity. It's as though Beethoven's music is the burning bush, saying to Moses: "I Am That I Am: Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." Beethoven's my man. Mozart's good too, of course.
Wow you have an exceptional understanding of music! I love how you break it down & describe so specifically what we' can hear if we just listen. Thank you for your perception & your ability to express it like this. I'm going to listen to it right now you have me so intrigued!
I love them both! I am not a music historian, but it seems to me that Mozart was the last of his generation, and his music expresses earlier periods with its perfection and rules. It sounds like an evolution of Bach. Coming a very short while later at the beginning of the Romantic era, Beethoven feels to me like the beginning of his generation, with music that is more open and creative and less rules-focused. No doubt they’re both brilliant, and their differences present an interesting microcosmic reflection of the broader macro changes in European society at that time.
Been listening to these 2 titans in particular for over 40 years- both not human! Mozart’s output was phenomenal over such a short amount of time- Beethoven’s music transports me. Just be grateful we came AFTER these guys not before!
I know right, Mozart is just so special. Most of my favourite Mozart pieces are in this video ruclips.net/video/7JmprpRIsEY/видео.html Mozart is almost like the only musician I listen to I mean just listen to the music from 1:17:45 to 1:21:00 or from 3:02 to 4:10 from the link above and just imagine how someone could come up with that in their head. So many beautiful pieces in that video, I love it.
@@wolfgangamadeusmozart8190 dude i love your symphony 41 in C major k. 551 "Jupiter", 4th movement, Finale: Molto Allegro How did you compose the magnificent 5 theme counterpoint near the end?? The last minute in that movement is my FAVOURITE MUSICAL MELODY IN WHOLE HISTORY.
Mozart's music coats your brain with its intricate perfection. Its like a sculpture is growing in your brain, in tandem with the music. Beethoven's compositions commonly lull your brain, a feeling that is the direct opposite you get from Mozart's "sculpture" building. Beethoven can be in one of 2 styles: a tranquil, oceanic, lullaby, or a griping piece that throws your brain into turmoil. It's quite surreal. I personally find myself craving Mozart's symphonies more often, I enjoy the sculpture they builds before my eyes far too much.
Beethoven was the, "Metallica", of his day....he pressed "low E' and the other parts of the lower end of the scale like no one else...his talents still resonate today...why doesn't anyone on RUclips talk about his deafness and its profound effect upon his music??
Just a small observation on my part. I have never liked the description of Beethoven as deaf, which suggests his ears could hear nothing. Rather, I describe his ailment as deafening tinnitus.
Mozart gets straight to the point, says what he has to say and moves on. Beethoven tells you everything about his day, regardless of whether it's relevant.
The thing is, Mozart lived a much shorter life than Beethoven and a lot of Beethoven's best came later in his life. Mozart was 35 when he died, Beethoven was older than that when he wrote his 5th symphony and obviously all the later symphonies. But on the other hand, Beethoven was deaf. Mozart wasn't. So they're more or less equal but I feel if Mozart had lived longer he'd have been far ahead of any other composer.
You might want to re-asses your judgement-value on age. By 35, Beethoven had already written the Eroica, possibly the most defining piece of music ever written, far surpassing in complexity everything ever written before it by any composer. Want even better? Listen to his Piano Concerto number 0 (yes, ZERO; it does exist). He wrote it at the age of 14; not too far off from Mozart's 11 (when he wrote HIS first concerto). But there is a delicate beauty and profundity (and surprising MATURITY) to Beethoven's work even at that age that is nothing short of remarkable. I'd say it even matches the Fifth Concerto in lyrical inventiveness, which is a BIG claim to make.
I have to agree with Armaan. Beethoven wrote his Eroica, Mozart wrote the requiem and Bach wrote the Chaconne at age 35. I think the Eroica is the greatest symphony which Beethoven wrote, but the complexity argument doesnt work at all. I usually give a fuck about complexity in music, as long as it tells a great story. When people say stupid things like "Mozart didn't write anything complex" i just tell them to listen to his masses and to some of his symphonies just as no. 41 3rd movement. He puts 5 different melodies next to each other for the whole movement. And Armaan : Dude are you copy-pasting your comments? Lol You've sent me the exact same message months ago telling about Beethovens concerto 0. This concerto is quite interesting to hear how his composing style invents and how he slowly becomes Beethoven. But Mozart was Mozart from the very beginning. That's why Perahia, Sokolov and Richter recorded all of his early concertos.
LOL..if you mean Robert, well, he's a professional, a concert pianist. Make no mistake, that is their vocation adn their talent.....it took him many many years to learn these pieces, perhaps like....what, 40 yrs or more I am guessing? Plus, concert pianists may practice all day, every day....just sayin.... LOL
@@CiaraITB he's a professional. This is his job but he's blessed to do what he is talented in doing...they practice hours and hours per day.... these pieces were all learned and played over a long long time. xo
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
Thomas Pick profound, you’re quite the deep thinker and stated so eloquently.... Ignorance and bitterness is not the theme here, maybe sit the next one out....
Rossini was professor of music at Bologna University, one day a journalist asked him: "Maestro who is the best composer, Beethoven or Mozart?" Rossini answered: "Beethoven" and the journalist said: "but Maestro what about Mozart?" Rossini replied: "Mozart is not a composer, Mozart is THE MUSIC"
Assolutamente d’accordo! In Mozart si era incarnato lo Spirito della Musica 🎵 Impossibile che un uomo riesca a comporre a livelli tanto celestiali, IMPOSSIBILE!!!
@@brandy2542 And I am over here, And only really love Bach’s preludes and Moonlight Sonata. Then again, I’m a Hard Rock fan first, so that makes sense that I don’t know a lot about this classical stuff.
To me a big part of the difference between these two incredible composers is in the sound or tone of seriousness in many of their pieces. Mozart's is so often playful, airy, with a light and playful, dreamy quality, whereas Beethoven is more serious, stern, or somber. Take a few from Beethoven: his Fifth is large and serious and deep, Ode to Joy is less 'joyful' and more 'serious', more filled with awe for his subject matter, while Moonlight Sonata is beautiful and somber, seriously thoughtful and provoking. Fur Elise is another great example of the serious and, at times, an almost haunting quality to Beethoven's work. Meanwhile, Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca is playful and a bit mocking of the seriousness of others in one part...and listen to what his left hand is playing on the bottom notes...so playful and almost like a polka's oompa-oompa sound, while Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is light and airy and the notes seems to glide, even slide in places, a playful melody that's like lightening bugs blink in the German evening around a group of dancers all joyous in their movements. Even his Symphony #40 has that touch of the playful, sounding at the start as if you've just come in on the music, having missed something...it's like it was already going on but so low that you missed the first few notes and you're catching up with the music. Both composers are brilliant, but each has his own sound, and I will not say that one is superior to the other. To me that would be like comparing a shark with a tiger...too different to compare, both amazing and at the top of their styles, and each worthy of great praise.
Have you listened to Mozart Masonic Funeral Music K477 or Adagio and Fugue for String Orchestra K546? Beethoven Rage over Lost Penny? You seem to be making your conclusions just from listening to "Best of Mozart" or "Best of Beethoven" videos on youtube.
Would it be a shark and a Lion then? Instead of a Tiger or would Bach be the Lion in this scenario, since he's the King of the Composer's! Also.... Moonlight Sonata.... "somber"? Have ya heard the 2nd and 3rd movement in Moonlight Sonata? 🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤣
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉 Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them. Check out this works of Beethoven. Op.116 (1801-02) Bundeslied Op.122 (1824) Op.65 Op.108 (1817) 8 Lieder Op.52 (1790-1805) WoO.90 WoO.140 (1811) Song "Mit Einem Gemalten Band. Leichtlich und mit Grazie Vorgetragen" in F major Op.83 No.3 (1810) "Das Glück der Freundschaft" Op.88 (1803) 6 Songs Op.75 (1809) "Adelaide" Op.46 (1795) Opferlied in E major WoO.126 (1794-1802) Opferlied in E major Op.121b (1822-23) Military March WoO.24 (1816) WoO.29 WoO.44a WoO.20 (1810) Military March WoO.19 (1808) WoO.155 (1813) Op.17 Trio for 2 oboes and english horn in C major Op.87 (1794) WoO.153 WoO.18 Op.105 (1817-18) WoO.23 (1810) WoO.37 "Der Mann von Wort" Op.99 (1816) "Merkenstein" Op.100 (1814) Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803) Cantata "Lobkowitz" for Voice, Chorus & Piano in E-flat major WoO.106 (1823) Lied "Neue Liebe, neues Leben" in C major WoO.127 (1799) Lied " Der Gesang der Nachtigall" in C major WoO.141 (1813) Canon "Esel aller Esel, hi ha" Hess.277 Canon WoO.162 Canon " Kurtz ist der Sehmerz, und ewig der Freud" WoO.163 (1813) Canon "Das Reden" WoO.168b Canon "Das Schweigen" WoO.168a Canon "Hofmann und Kein Hofmann" WoO.180 Canon "Das Göttliche" in E major WoO.185 Canon "Schwenke" WoO.187 (1824) Canon "Ewig dein" WoO.161 Canon "Glück zum neuen Jahr" WoO.165 Canon "Ich bitt' dich" WoO.172 Canon "Hol' euch der Teufel! B'hüt euch Gott!" WoO.173 Canon "Da ist das Werk" WoO.197 Canon "Freu dich des Lebens" WoO.195 Canon "Bester Magistrat, Ihr friert" WoO.177 Canon "Es muss sein" WoO.196 Canon "Sankt Petrus war ein Fels" WoO.175 Canon "Gedenket heute an Baden" No.1 WoO.181 Canon "Gehabt euch wohl" No.2 WoO.181 Canon "Tugend ist Kein leerer Name" No.3 WoO.181 Canon "Bester Herr Graf" WoO.183 Canon "Falstafferel" WoO.184 Canon "Ars longa, vita brevis" WoO.192 Canon "Gott ist eine feste Burg" WoO.188 Canon "Ich war hier, Doktor!" WoO.190 Canon "Abbé Stadler" in B-flat major WoO.178 (1820) Canon "Doktor, sperrt das Tor dem Tod"in C major WoO.189 (1825) Rondo for Piano in G major "Rage over a lost penny" Op.129 (1795-98) Andante and Variations for Mandolina & Piano in D major WoO.44b (1796) Sonatina for Mandolina & Piano in C major WoO.44a (1796) WoO.26 12 German Dances for orchestra WoO.8 (1795) Duet for clarinet and bassoon in F WoO.27 WoO.99 (1796 or 1801-03) Septet Op.20 First movement from Symphony No.6 Op.68 "pastoral" Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony No.8 Op.93 WoO.99 (1800) Serenade for flute, violín & viola in D major Op.25 (1801) And Sonatinas, songs, arias, lieder for voice and many many more.
I recommend these works of Mozart that have a lot of emotion and feelings. Fantasy for organ in F minor kv. 608 Andante for organ in F minor kv. 594 Kyrie in D minor kv. 341 Piano concertos No.20 kv.466, Piano concerto No.24 kv.491 Aria for bass and orchestra "Cosi dunque tradisci" Kv.432 Miserere kv.85 Viaticum from Litaniae kv.125 Modulating prelude kv.624 Prelude and fugue for piano kv. 394 Fantasy for piano in C minor kv. 396 String quintet no.2 in C minor kv.406, String Quintet no.3 in C major kv.515 String Quintet no.4 in G minor kv.516 String Quintet no.5 in D major kv.593 Thamos king of Egypt kv. 345 Arias and choruses "Pieta numi pieta" "Qual nuovo terrore" "Ha vinto amore" "O Voto Tremendo" "Tutte nel cor vi sento" "D'oreste d'aiace" from the Opera Idomeneo kv.366 Concertante symphony for violin and viola kv.364 (the second "andante" movement is sublime and very melancholic) Piano Concerto No. 23 "Adagio" kv.488 String Quartet no.3 kv.156 (adagio) String Quartet No.8 kv.168 (andante) String Quartet No.13 kv.173 String Quartet No.11kv.171 String Quartet No.15 kv.421 String Quartet No.18 kv.464 String Quartet No.19 kv.465 String Quartet No.16 kv.428 Quartet for piano and strings kv.478 Masonic Funeral kv.477 Concerto for two pianos kv.365 Adagio & fugue for strings in C minor kv.546 Laudate Dominum from Visperas Solemnes kv.339 Mass in D minor kv.65 Ave verum corpus kv.618 Violin Sonata in E minor kv.304 Rondo for piano in A minor kv.511 Adagio for piano in B minor kv. 540 Overture from Don Giovanni kv.527 Arias "A cenar teco" "Don Ottavio so morta" "Crudele" "Ah soccorso! Son tradito" Aria "L'ho Perduta" from the Opera The Marriage of Fifaro kv.492 Andantino from Piano Concerto No. 9 kv.271 Piano Sonata No.15 kv.533 (andante) Piano Sonata No.14 kv.457 Piano Sonata No. 8 kv.310 Piano Fantasy kv.397 Piano Fantasy kv.475 Mass in C minor kv.427 Aria for soprano & orchestra "Popoli di Tessaglia" kv.316 Aria for soprano & orchestra "Mia Speranza Adorara!" Kv.416 Aria for soprano kv.272 Symphony No.25 in G minor kv.183 Symphony No.38 in D major kv.504 Symphony No.39 kv.543 Tremendum from Litaniae Venerabili Altaris kv.243 Piano Concerto No.25 kv.503 Misericordias Domini kv.222 Funeral march for piano in C minor kv.453a Sonata for violin and piano kv.379 Symphony No.40 kv.550 Sonata for violin and piano kv.526 Variations for violin and piano in G minor kv.360 Piano Concerto No.22 kv.482 (andante) Piano concerto No.18 kv.456 (andante) "Laudate pueri" from Visperas Solemnes kv.339 Variations for piano kv.455, kv.354, kv.398, kv.264, kv.500 Gigue for piano kv.574 Suite for piano kv.399 Menuet for piano kv.355 Arias "Der, welcher wandert diese straße volt" "Ach, ich fuhl's, es ist verschwunden, ewighinder liebe gluck" from the Opera Magic Flute kv.620 Piano sonata for 4 hands kv.497 Aria "Wer ein liebchen hat gefunden" from the opera The Abduction from the Seraglio kv.384 Lieder for voice and piano kv.519, kv.523, kv.619, kv.520, kv.390 😉
My take is what Mozart did WITH sonata form was immaculate and stunningly genius. What Beethoven did TO sonata form was incredible and stunningly genius. My take is ever shifting but that is what I'm sticking to for now. May i also add I'm no expert.
Beethoven Not revolutionary the piano concerto, beethoven Not revolutionary the Opera, beethoven Not revolutionary the Lieder, beethoven Not revolutionary the piano quartets, string quintets and Not revolutionary the string trio.
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉 Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them. Check out this works of Beethoven. Op.116 (1801-02) Bundeslied Op.122 (1824) Op.65 WoO.140 (1811) Op.83 no.3 (1810) Op.108 (1817) Op.52 WoO.90 Military March WoO.24 (1816) WoO.29 WoO.44a WoO.20 (1810) Military March WoO.19 (1808) WoO.155 (1813) Op.17 WoO.153 WoO.18 Op.105 (1817-18) WoO.23 (1810) WoO.37 Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803) WoO.26 Septet Op.20 First movement from Symphony no.6 Op.68 "pastoral" Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony no.8 Op.93 WoO.99 (1800) Serenade for flute, violín & viola Op.25 And Sonatinas, songs, arias, canon's and lieder for voice and many many more.
I enjoyed this very much and mainly agree with it but when I study Mozarts music, I find that it's full of surprises too. Mozart's surprises are less obvious than Beethoven's. Sometimes I find something new in a piece of Mozart's that I've been playing for years and I feel as though I've discovered buried treasure. I'm tempted to show it off to all who hear, but if I do, some of the special Mozart magic can wear off.
Mozart was the sun, moon, stars orbiting the heavens. Seasons would change, rivers would flow, and vines would bear grapes. All the while, children would frolic playfully in the idyllic arboreal dell, and occasionally, they would fall asleep and have terrifying nightmares. Beethoven was thunderstorms, hail, hurricanes, volcanoes, and earthquakes. And in the center of the maelstrom, a solitary figure stands raging, shaking his fist and spitting curses at the fates; occasionally turning away to furtively wipe tears from his eyes, lest anyone see him and think of him as a mere mortal.
I think this guy gives a great general idea of the difference of the music and periods of MozART and Beethoven. However, music was just a reflection of their spirits and personalities, and they produced some inside the confines of the social structures prevalent in their times. However, when the Artist within them were unleashed, you got music that defies all forms, generalities and structure...It is the expression of the ARTist and the Individual journey to the ARTistry that makes them different. Alas! Both are two of my favorites artists of any medium.
The comments are what I would expect. Beethoven was better than Mozart. Beethoven was "gravitas" and Mozart was "light". These people know nothing about either man. Of course, Beethoven learned from Mozart, just like Mozart learned from Haydn and JS Bach. But Mozart wrote more than 600 works in 30 years, of every different type, orchestral, trios, quartets, quintets, concertos for every instrument, even a bassoon. He wrote his last 3 symphonies in one summer, as if he had them in his head for a long time, and just wrote them down then. He never heard them played. Sort of like Beethoven. These last 3 are a trio of some of the greatest works of the orchestral canon. They are all different. The E flat intro has violins playing a minor 9th apart with nothing in the middle. Very dissonant, grating. The audience must have been squirming in their seats. The G minor is one of his most famous, and it is obvious that Beethoven heard it, for it sounds very much like his 5th symphony. Mozart takes a 3 note motif and works the entire movement around it and does everything with it, only a genius could do.An entire textbook could be written about this movement. Then the last, which is his final goodbye to the symphonic form, is so beautiful it brings me to tears everytime I hear it. Then after all that a finale that takes your breath away. Mozart suddenly introduces five themes used in the final movement, one at a time, playing against each other in a fugal form, in a deep bow to the master, Bach, it is only 15 seconds long, but is so electric you don't want it to stop. This is all personal opinion and taste. The both were two of the best. But I'd rather hear Mozart every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. The man could do anything and everything, the soul of genius is emoted in enough of his works.
Thank for writing this so I didn’t have to! I’d also add that that Mozart understood the human condition better than anyone. In my opinion, Mozart wrote about us but Beethoven writes about himself. With Beethoven I always feel like he’s trying to wrestle with turmoil within himself whereas Mozart makes me feel I’m not alone in the world and that someone else out there gets me. There isn’t a single human emotion that Mozart didn’t write about. Love, terror, heartbreak, rage, playfulness, bitchiness - it’s all in Mozart’s work.
Bach, even if some works are wrongly-attributed to him, wrote at a faster pace at certain periods and the hell more complex. Speed doesn't mean genius. We should both agree. I won't believe in this "jewel perfection" about Mozart. What I believe is that he had a shameful inability to innovate. Beethoven and Paganini opened the gates to Liszt and Chopin, and ultimately to the key to music, not to create "jewels" but to move oceans.
@@Deibler666 JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works." books.google.ca/books?id=7iwZ-qTuSkUC&pg=PA134#v=onepage&q&f=false books.google.ca/books?id=7iwZ-qTuSkUC&pg=PA135#v=onepage&q&f=false
@@PastorBrianLantz That is because Beethoven was tortured his whole life. First, his father, then the whole society. You can't expect a sense of humor from a wounded man like that.
I think it's great that they have everyone on this thread so charged up on hundreds of years later. I wonder if anyone else will have that kind of impact
beethoven's music has a lot more soul" to it, if that makes any sense. this comes from a man who knows what he likes but knows nothing of what makes something beautiful
@@LilLuciferrk_nttt69 Don't worry Wolfie, for me the overture of marriage of figaro sometimes just looks like it was a person that became music and it's totally full of soul and happiness
Certainly Beethoven is the last great representative of Viennese classicism, in his music architecture is the most important thing. The balance of musical architecture is the hallmark of Viennese classicism and Haydn was a great teacher of this school.
@@Metalpazallteway I'd say the burden of proof is on you, as you are the one making the extraordinary claim. Arguments about quality in art never lead anywhere. It's worth noting, however, that the great composers have always considered Mozart to be at the highest pinnacle of his art. Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Liszt, Rossini, Wagner, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Strauss, Ravel, Schoenberg, Bernstein, etc. were among his great admirers. Of course, any schmuck on the internet *could* claim that they were all wrong about Mozart's music, and that he (the schmuck) knows better. The schmuck would not be in a position of strength, though.
Another consideration is that Mozart only lived to age 35, while Beethoven lived to 56. Anther 20 years of maturation and compositional development. It's widely known that Amadeus composed "in his head", while LVB labored tirelessly over staff sheets....one can only imagine what the "Boy Prodigy" would have created with another 30-40 years!
...also, in terms of sheer numbers, Mozart penned as many as 68 symphonies, (41 of which are recognized in the basic repertoire), to Beethoven's 9. Mozart wrote 22 operas(a few abandoned) to Beethoven's one and only Opera, "Fidelio". One could easily say that during his much shorter life, Mozart was FAR more prolific.....
"Often we meet with a condescending attitude towards him, to his music, reminiscent of chiming bells in a music box! ...'It's very nice, but not for me' say such people, 'give me passion - Beethoven, Brahms, tragic, monumental...' Such comments only reveal one thing, these people don't know Mozart." *-* *Charles Gounod*
My dream instrument is the piano. There is just something about a piano, maybe because each one sounds different. I once went into a second hand shop and asked if I could play on the Grand piano and when I touched the first few notes my heart skipped a beat. It had the most beautiful tone. I asked why the price was so high and the sales lady told me its because it was a Steinway ( I had no knowledge about Steinway way back then) So when I was in Dresden in 2019 I visit a piano shop and it was a real treat to play on their Steinways. Last year I entered a local piano shop and played a little on some of their instruments. When I got up to leave the lady at reception called me and wanted to know what exactly I played. She told me that obviously a lot of people play on these pianos daily, some of them professional musicians, but never before did she hear anyone play so beautiful as what I just did. So I had to tell her that it was improvisation, and even though I wanted to, I can never play the same piece again which was the truth. But a nice compliment. I would sometimes drive to a luxury wine farm about 30 kms from my house because of the piano in their foyer. It has the most beautiful tone and normally there are no people around, except for the nearby restaurant. Its the ultimate experience for me to play on this piano and very special, as I know that I will never be able to afford to buy a piano like this. I treasure every second
I love them both but I would have to pick Beethoven. I love the power and sheer humanity of Beethoven's music - works of genius such as the 5th symphony and the Eroica lift my spirits more than Mozart's works. Mozart's music has an ethereal, almost supernatural beauty to it, with such an 'easy' perfection of composition, but it's still not as touching for me.
I admire Mozart for his beauty and perfection, But I love Beethoven because I am apparently one of those people who are biologically encoded to be touched in a deeper place in my heart and spirit by his music.
I really enjoy the extended improvisations in these older videos. I love the way Beethoven surprises us, the stark contrast. I am more of a rough and ready kind than perfection. My husband's favorite composer is Beethoven.
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉 Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them. Check out this works of Beethoven. Op.116 (1801-02) Bundeslied Op.122 (1824) Op.65 Op.108 (1817) 8 Lieder Op.52 (1790-1805) WoO.90 WoO.140 (1811) Song "Mit Einem Gemalten Band. Leichtlich und mit Grazie Vorgetragen" in F major Op.83 No.3 (1810) "Das Glück der Freundschaft" Op.88 (1803) 6 Songs Op.75 (1809) "Adelaide" Op.46 (1795) Opferlied in E major WoO.126 (1794-1802) Opferlied in E major Op.121b (1822-23) Military March WoO.24 (1816) WoO.29 WoO.44a WoO.20 (1810) Military March WoO.19 (1808) WoO.155 (1813) Op.17 Trio for 2 oboes and english horn in C major Op.87 (1794) WoO.153 WoO.18 Op.105 (1817-18) WoO.23 (1810) WoO.37 "Der Mann von Wort" Op.99 (1816) "Merkenstein" Op.100 (1814) Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803) Cantata "Lobkowitz" for Voice, Chorus & Piano in E-flat major WoO.106 (1823) Lied "Neue Liebe, neues Leben" in C major WoO.127 (1799) Lied " Der Gesang der Nachtigall" in C major WoO.141 (1813) Canon "Esel aller Esel, hi ha" Hess.277 Canon WoO.162 Canon " Kurtz ist der Sehmerz, und ewig der Freud" WoO.163 (1813) Canon "Das Reden" WoO.168b Canon "Das Schweigen" WoO.168a Canon "Hofmann und Kein Hofmann" WoO.180 Canon "Das Göttliche" in E major WoO.185 Canon "Schwenke" WoO.187 (1824) Canon "Ewig dein" WoO.161 Canon "Glück zum neuen Jahr" WoO.165 Canon "Ich bitt' dich" WoO.172 Canon "Hol' euch der Teufel! B'hüt euch Gott!" WoO.173 Canon "Da ist das Werk" WoO.197 Canon "Freu dich des Lebens" WoO.195 Canon "Bester Magistrat, Ihr friert" WoO.177 Canon "Es muss sein" WoO.196 Canon "Sankt Petrus war ein Fels" WoO.175 Canon "Gedenket heute an Baden" No.1 WoO.181 Canon "Gehabt euch wohl" No.2 WoO.181 Canon "Tugend ist Kein leerer Name" No.3 WoO.181 Canon "Bester Herr Graf" WoO.183 Canon "Falstafferel" WoO.184 Canon "Ars longa, vita brevis" WoO.192 Canon "Gott ist eine feste Burg" WoO.188 Canon "Ich war hier, Doktor!" WoO.190 Canon "Abbé Stadler" in B-flat major WoO.178 (1820) Canon "Doktor, sperrt das Tor dem Tod"in C major WoO.189 (1825) Rondo for Piano in G major "Rage over a lost penny" Op.129 (1795-98) Andante and Variations for Mandolina & Piano in D major WoO.44b (1796) Sonatina for Mandolina & Piano in C major WoO.44a (1796) WoO.26 12 German Dances for orchestra WoO.8 (1795) Duet for clarinet and bassoon in F WoO.27 WoO.99 (1796 or 1801-03) Septet Op.20 First movement from Symphony No.6 Op.68 "pastoral" Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony No.8 Op.93 WoO.99 (1800) Serenade for flute, violín & viola in D major Op.25 (1801) And Sonatinas, songs, arias, lieder for voice and many many more.
Although Beethoven admired Mozart, it's obvious that he learned very little from him. The ironic fact is that it's Haydn, who he held in low regard until well into the 1800's, from whom Beethoven learned the most.
beethoven said that from haydn dont learn nothing... I believe there is a quote from haydn where he asked beethoven why he wanted to learn about music but he seemed so uninterested about the claus that haydn was tteaching. And the answer was that Beethoven wanted to know the rules just to break the rules. Sorry for my english!
"Mozart's music comes from heaven, Beethoven's music takes you there." famous quote by I don't know who. Huge fan of Van, the man, only JSB rivals him. Beethoven overcame obstacles like no human before or since. The worse his affliction, the more sublime his music. That is a saintly quality.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant! I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
Mozart’s music is clinical, playful perfection, Beethoven’s music is a raw emotional plea that draws you in-I feel like a therapist listening to a troubled soul describe his anguish ... and somehow, its the therapist that receives the healing of his own soul by listening to the end.
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Beethoven = I wanna be alone and think
Mozart = let's go out have some fun.
So true, after all Beethoven was the German and Mozart the Austrian; I am german myself and I think germans tend to be profound in their thinking and acting, they tend to be serious, sober and reliable and do "right" whatever they do- that is not just a cliche - and still many have a very romantic side and the love for nature; whereas the Austrians are charming peeple, they like beauty, elegance and harmony; maybe they stress the form rather than the content; in Germany it's the other way round most of the time...
@@theoderich1168 interesting!
Thank you; that was Beautiful.
All these differences made the Earth a magical realm.
Respect, my German friend.
@@theoderich1168 With all due respect, Sir, Austria did not exist in 1756. Taken from Wikipedia:
"As can be seen, evidence is available to support a variety of opinions about Mozart's nationality. Thus, he was Austrian because the town in which he was born and raised is now in Austria, and because he made his career in Vienna, the Austrian capital.[39] He was German because he felt himself to be German, and because the residual and moribund empire that included Salzburg was labeled as and felt to be German.[40] He was neither Austrian nor German because Salzburg was independent, neither part of the Habsburg Austrian possessions nor part of a (yet to exist) German nation-state.[41]"
Y E E T
Y E that’s sad 😢
The end of a Mozart piece make me say "Ahhhhh...". The end of a Beethoven piece makes me say "Wow!" Both are equally rewarding to me.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): " I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto {the Third Piano Concerto} much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance.
Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works. "
Well said.
Mozart if you want to understand the world, Beethoven if you want wallow in your emotions.
And then BACH enters the room to put the two toddlers to bed...
Both, Beethoven and Mozart, admitted that they couldnt hold a candle to the god of harmony.
Beethoven simply called Bach "the ocean" and Mozart even worshipped Bach's sons who taught him.
@@akanecortich8197 Interesting statement. I think you prefer Mozart.
Both Mozart and Beethoven were divinely talented and gifted...I am just happy that they both existed.
Same
Both Mozart and Beethoven were equally impressive with their abilities. You had Mozart who was a child prodigy and created symphonies at such an astounding young age and did complicated pieces like it was nothing.
And then you had Beethoven who formed huge, epic masterpieces while being unable to physically hear his own genius. No wonder they're both so legendary
Beethoven could hear for most of his composing life. His deafness came on gradually, beginning to lose his hearing in his mid -late 20s, and was mostly - but not completely - deaf by the time he wrote some of his greatest masterpieces, like his Missa Solemnis and his 9th Symphony. He heard music when he still had his sense of hearing, so even when he began to lose it, he knew in his head and understood what he wrote should and would sound like.
@@m.ragangreeniii9926 he most likely had perfect pitch as well
@@Naeromusic He absolutely most certainly did! 👍
@@Naeromusic I think that is a given for all composers worth listening to
Both great no doubt…I think what sets Mozart apart is that he only lived to 35, and wrote masterpiece Operas, choral works, and concertos for a ton of instruments. Oh, and was a virtuoso piano and viola player.
In the morning, I prefer Mozart ; but Beethoven in the evening 🌝🌚
Try Beethoven's 7th symphony while watching a sunrise. Beyond words
..... soooo.... Beethoven = Moonlight(Sonata)?
🌚🤣😂
Ron Riggs What a joker are you! Of course not . I was thinking rather in some passages of the last Beethoven’s string quartets. If you listen them in the morning it’s sure you don’t stand up of bed!! 😥🤯 😂
Good thing you know the difference. Beethoven slept around...
And in your dreams? Mozart
The primary difference between Mozart and Beethoven was that Mozart's music represents the end of an era: the pristine perfectionism of the Classical aesthetic. Whereas Beethoven's music represents the beginning of an era: the raw passion of Romanticism, and ultimately Impressionism and 20th century atonal harmony. Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Debussy, Scriabin, Schoenberg, Webern, Rachmaninoff, Messiaen: all composers whose work is clearly rooted in the convention-smashing of Beethoven's late works. Mozart didn't bring us into the 20th century. Beethoven did.
You cited Chopin as a composer influenced by Beethoven but I don't agree with your observation. Chopin admired Beethoven but I don't think the former incorporated the latter's style, borrow or imitate his stylistic templates liked his other contemporaries did.
Everything you described is accurate, and boils down to a natural progression, as societal and cultural norms changed while being driven by the music itself. A sort of symbiosis....one thing being overlooked, is that despite their differences, there are also some similarities. Mozart could be as dark as Beethoven and I would offer Mozart's Requiem Mass as proof of that. And even the brooding Beethoven could be happy and playful at times through his music. They met each other briefly when Beethoven was but fourteen. I believe Beethoven's father wanted Mozart to instruct his son, but Mozart lacked the time. A quotation by Mozart goes to effect; " keep an eye on this young lad, he'll make a great stir in the world someday". Obviously he was correct :-)
@@josephfisher1691 Mozart could never really stay in that dark place though, maybe it was his personality that always wanted to return for the sunshine. Whereas, often I find Beethoven is just trying to find the sunshine.
@@Warstub...agreed. Their personalities were polar opposites, and Mozart was subjected to more stringent "rules", hence the larger secular catalogue. By all accounts, "Mo" was a bit more of a rockstar in his behavior, (philandering, drinking, gambling, hustling billiards, etc.) Hard to remain in a "dark place". He was touring in Paris when his mother died. That wrecked him for time, as did the death of his father. Beethoven, conversely, was very moral, astute, and regimented. He would love from afar, and pine for what he denied himself. As his deafness advanced, so too did his depression. Some argue that it was his sheer agony that propelled the absolute majesty of his work....either way, what a beautiful legacy we can ALL enjoy....😎👍🎼🙏
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
( Composers On Music: Eight Centuries of Writings
, Josiah Fisk, Jeff Nichols, Technical Group Leader High Performance Computational Chemistry Group Jeff Nichols | p.134~135 )
it's sad how Mozart only lived for 35 years. imagine what music he could've created at age 50 or 60!
Schubert lived even less, and started to innovate younger. Mozart didn't.
He even might have morphed into RiRi
@@Deibler666 How didn't Mozart innovate at a young age?
@@logannslm1593 He did, but his father wanted a prodigy, not an iconoclast. So, he tried to moderate his genius to fit until that oppression killed him.
I still make music i still make the same songs tho but they don't get alot of attention sadly
All the people saying Mozart's music is light, happy and relaxing - well there is plenty of Mozart music that is this way. But Mozart also wrote dark and heartbreaking music as we have it in some of the later Beethoven works. For example : the Requiem, Piano Concerto 20, 2nd mvt of Piano Concerto 23, Opera Don Giovanni, Piano Sonata nr. 8, Piano Sonata nr. 14, Maurerische Trauermusik K477, Piano trio K442, Fantasy in F Minor K608, Violin Sonata No. 21 K304, Rondo in A minor K511...
I believe they're hinting at the character of the music rather than the tone, even in most of the pieces you mentioned Mozart still maintains the playful character of his music, like a tragic comedy if you were to find an example in cinema, like Chaplin. but Beethoven has a dramatic and keeps a very serious character throughout his career. But ultimately I agree that both composers have out of character pieces that have ironically become some of their most celebrated and cherished creations, like the requiem by Mozart, which is genuinely "dark" piece of music, and the 9th by Beethoven, which is one of the most upbeat and happy tunes in all classical music.
Adagio and Fugue in C minor, Masonic Funeral Music too. There is a very unknown part of Mozart
And Lacrimosa
Also never forget his beautiful Fantasia in C minor and my favorite one, the Fantasia in D minor.
Thanks for pointing this out. When I was in high school, I first listened to Mozart's Requiem and it totally changed my life. It was more than just beauty, it was so deep and powerful. Mozart was amazing. Don't get me wrong, Beethoven was also incredible, but people dissing on Mozart and saying he was just about pretty notes don't know Mozart
Mozart makes me want to live life while Beethoven makes me question life 😂
Ahhh, lovely. Indeed.
I agree
Mozart gives me answer, while Beethoven still asking
This one makes the most sense
@@ss01101 albus Persival Wulfrick Brian Dumbledore
I kept expecting this guy to say, “Inconceivable!”
lol
Me too lol
That ......was ....CLASSIC!! Lol
Buahahaha, me too!
Lol!!!!!! Princess bride!!! Well played sir.
I will always be a Mozart fan. Death robbed us so much masterpieces would have been if he had lived longer.....
Awww
Wait, what? He died? I just saw a comment from him here, in the comment section! Was it sudden? 🤷🏼♂️🤣🤣🤣
Death by poisoning
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
( Composers On Music: Eight Centuries of Writings
, Josiah Fisk, Jeff Nichols, Technical Group Leader High Performance Computational Chemistry Group Jeff Nichols | p.134~135 )
@@jackjack3320 go away
When I was young I loved the emotional challenge of Beethoven. Now that I am older I love the ethereal resolution of Mozart. Both are magnificent and it is wonderful that we get to choose among so much music to suit our mood in any moment.
Mozart is incredibly special to me. I delved into his music during a very dark time in my life, and it helped me want to live again. Even though it is something tinged with sadness, his music has an incredible and intoxicating sense of humor and optimism. I literally feel like I am high while listening to it lmao.
That said, I also love Beethoven: his music reaches unprecedented levels. It is exhilarating, invigorating, full of passion and surprises. It encompasses a wide range of emotion, from the darkest fury to the greatest joy.
I agreed Lmao ❤
Beethoven had better hair.
Beethoven had a better nose too.
PointyTailofSatan Mozart had better music.
PointyTailofSatan I agree
Beethoven was a complete stud.
YES VERY GUD, anything else? one of them's still alive
Mozart was concerned with perfection. His music is like an intricate crystal sculpture, something to be admired from all directions. The beauty of Mozart asks nothing but to be admired.
Beethoven opened music to emotion. Something like the Fifth reaches out and grabs you by your shirt, shakes you till your teeth rattle and says,“ I dare you not to listen.”
Crawford Hart beautiful
On the contrary. Historically speaking, Beethoven was the perfectionist. He was known as a terror amongst his pupils and would have a lot of erasures in his manuscripts because he simply cannot be satisfied. Mozart, on the other hand, was carefree and more in-tune with his child-like personality which was more susceptible to emotions.
@@glh7728 👏🏻
@@glh7728 Yes, I agree. It's stupid and ignorant to associate Beethoven with a singular expression of 'emotion' as though nothing in the past existed, as though happiness in music isn't an emotion, as though the pursuit of the perfect fugue and all the possibilities of music isn't an emotion. Beethoven opened music up to the darker aspects of emotion, the more troubled and disruptive aspects that up to that point had only been touched on, but rarely developed. Mozart's music is filled with just as much passion and emotion, as is Bach's; Mozart's is just of the more joyous kind.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
( Composers On Music: Eight Centuries of Writings
, Josiah Fisk, Jeff Nichols, Technical Group Leader High Performance Computational Chemistry Group Jeff Nichols | p.134~135 )
I always wondered how Mozart's music would've changed had he lived long enough to experience the pianos Beethoven played on?
fromanotherstar I've thought about that too. Mozart died around age 35, so if he lived an extra 20 - 30 years, he would of lived a good amount into the 'romantic' era. Who knows what Mozart would of composed in those extra years, and what would change since Mozart being alive with Beethoven and how that would change his music and the music of the 1800s.
+Victor P. If there really is some after-life kinda like you see in some movies, I would LOVE to have a drink with mozart, bach, beehthoven, tchaikovsky, chopin etc. and talk with all of them about music! :D
+MCMeru
From what I've read, Bach would likely realize quickly that he was a major contributor and inspiration to the rest and then just go home... a very short conversation if not challenging them all to a Keyboard duel
+MCMeru that would be one hell of moment let me tell ya...
put it on my after life bucket list..
+fromanotherstar Yes right?, and how Bach, haendel, couperin would've played in those pianos.
How would've Beethoven and all other composers played modern pianos, thinking of it is just an utopic dream but very interesting.
Nice comment it makes you think a lot.
The best short description with each composer's music, in whatever genre, is that
Mozart's music is *perfect*, and Beethoven's music is *profound*.
+mlng No music is perfect, it cannot be perfect by its own definition, however, what people mean by saying Mozart's music is perfect, is that the flow of his compositions, the harmony, every note in the melodic is just as you expect it to go and just as smooth, which gives a sense of perfection, not as in the best possible, but as in it is exactly how it should be. Some other composers, Beethoven in this case, disliked that idea, he wanted more chaos and less order, he did sharp 'turns of events', surprises and just things you don't expect. His life was truly imperfect with all the traumas and depressions in his life and he reflects those imperfections in his music. I especially absolutely love how Beethoven did that in his 8th Sonata in C minor, Op.13.
Imo that couldn't be a better term for late Beethoven. Profound is exactly the feeling you get when you listen to the fugue in his 14th string quartet, etc. But middle period Beethoven is more "passion" I'd say.
Perehenaa Bach is the closest to perfection, not mozart
if you compare late Mozart works like Fantasia for organ in F minor K608 with Hammerklavier Sonata last movement, you can only conclude Hammerklavier is waaay too long-winded and boring honestly. The last movement sounds like it's going nowhere. Do you Beethoven fans honestly enjoy that crap? Mozart's fantasia is much more passionate and complex at the same time.
@@jackjack3320 Mozart's Fantasy is merely crap comparated with the final Beethoven's sonaten.
Beethoven’s music touched heaven, Mozart’s music came from heaven
Nice one
Excellent point yes
Yes! And I could listen to Mozart all day. Not so, Beethoven. Bach too, though we're not talking about Bach. I feel as though I'm touching God's hands when I listen to Bach.
JASON P. ROBERTS: I love to hear what others think of these 3 composers! I highly respect your choices and completely understand them.
@JASON P. Roberts Honestly this Is purely my thought I know you might think differently but Bach is very boring to listen to I just don't like it. That narrows to Beethoven and Mozart for me If i had to listen to either of their music for a whole year nonstop I'd most definitely go with Beethoven Fur Elise. Imo Mozart doesn't come close to Beethoven level.
My favorite composers are Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Bach, Mozart, and Chopin. If I were to compare them...
Beethoven: A mix of many emotions and phrases the most prominent being dramatic
Tchaikovsky: Tender, happy, with dramatics thrown in when needed
Bach: One I can only describe as suspenseful elegance
Mozart: Pleasant with an air of elegance.
Chopin: A master of the dark and haunting tone, with the elegant waltz here and there to even it out
Tchaikovsky is tender and happy to your ears? What do you usually listen to of his works? From 1877 onwards most of his music is infused with a great sense of tragedy. And happy only in longing for happiness.
Probably only knows the Nutcracker, Swan Lake, and the 1812 Overture, maybe Piano Concerto #1.
nothing is dark and haunting tone about chopin...his tone is beautiful, nostalgic and warm....
Quotenwagnerianer I agree w you & would say pretty much the same of Mozart's greatest music.
Over Enthusiastic Trekkie how about Salieri?
Always love Beethoven. I feel much emotion and relax when i hear his creation.
Beethoven is yang, and Mozart is yin. Both are brilliant, and complement each other.
Surely you mean Beethoven was the masculine.....and Mozart was the spoiled brat.
@@chefjaike power vs. beauty?
Mozart's music is jubilantly romantic, like joyous notes jumping on the surface of a majestic lake and elevating it to a state of ineffable beauty. Whereas Beethoven's music is at once profoundly engaging.and gorgeously dreamlike, where the notes aim to explore and expose the surprising mysteries of the hidden depths.
Beautifully stated! Thank you for the picture you painted in my mind
Romantic is a bit missleading. Use childish, happy, playful, but mozsrt is very classic much more than beethoven.
@@IsomerSoma graceful
I also want that weed
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉
Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them.
Check out this works of Beethoven.
Op.116 (1801-02)
Bundeslied Op.122 (1824)
Op.65
Op.108 (1817)
8 Lieder Op.52 (1790-1805)
WoO.90
WoO.140 (1811)
Song "Mit Einem Gemalten Band. Leichtlich und mit Grazie Vorgetragen" in F major Op.83 No.3 (1810)
"Das Glück der Freundschaft" Op.88 (1803)
6 Songs Op.75 (1809)
"Adelaide" Op.46 (1795)
Opferlied in E major WoO.126 (1794-1802)
Opferlied in E major Op.121b (1822-23)
Military March WoO.24 (1816)
WoO.29
WoO.44a
WoO.20 (1810)
Military March WoO.19 (1808)
WoO.155 (1813)
Op.17
Trio for 2 oboes and english horn in C major Op.87 (1794)
WoO.153
WoO.18
Op.105 (1817-18)
WoO.23 (1810)
WoO.37
"Der Mann von Wort" Op.99 (1816)
"Merkenstein" Op.100 (1814)
Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803)
Cantata "Lobkowitz" for Voice, Chorus & Piano in E-flat major WoO.106 (1823)
Lied "Neue Liebe, neues Leben" in C major WoO.127 (1799)
Lied " Der Gesang der Nachtigall" in C major WoO.141 (1813)
Canon "Esel aller Esel, hi ha" Hess.277
Canon WoO.162
Canon " Kurtz ist der Sehmerz, und ewig der Freud" WoO.163 (1813)
Canon "Das Reden" WoO.168b
Canon "Das Schweigen" WoO.168a
Canon "Hofmann und Kein Hofmann" WoO.180
Canon "Das Göttliche" in E major WoO.185
Canon "Schwenke" WoO.187 (1824)
Canon "Ewig dein" WoO.161
Canon "Glück zum neuen Jahr" WoO.165
Canon "Ich bitt' dich" WoO.172
Canon "Hol' euch der Teufel! B'hüt euch Gott!" WoO.173
Canon "Da ist das Werk" WoO.197
Canon "Freu dich des Lebens" WoO.195
Canon "Bester Magistrat, Ihr friert" WoO.177
Canon "Es muss sein" WoO.196
Canon "Sankt Petrus war ein Fels" WoO.175
Canon "Gedenket heute an Baden" No.1 WoO.181
Canon "Gehabt euch wohl" No.2 WoO.181
Canon "Tugend ist Kein leerer Name" No.3 WoO.181
Canon "Bester Herr Graf" WoO.183
Canon "Falstafferel" WoO.184
Canon "Ars longa, vita brevis" WoO.192
Canon "Gott ist eine feste Burg" WoO.188
Canon "Ich war hier, Doktor!" WoO.190
Canon "Abbé Stadler" in B-flat major WoO.178 (1820)
Canon "Doktor, sperrt das Tor dem Tod"in C major WoO.189 (1825)
Rondo for Piano in G major "Rage over a lost penny" Op.129 (1795-98)
Andante and Variations for Mandolina & Piano in D major WoO.44b (1796)
Sonatina for Mandolina & Piano in C major WoO.44a (1796)
WoO.26
12 German Dances for orchestra WoO.8 (1795)
Duet for clarinet and bassoon in F WoO.27
WoO.99 (1796 or 1801-03)
Septet Op.20
First movement from Symphony No.6 Op.68 "pastoral"
Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony No.8 Op.93
WoO.99 (1800)
Serenade for flute, violín & viola in D major Op.25 (1801)
And Sonatinas, songs, arias, lieder for voice and many many more.
Mozart's music is a walk through a garden.
Listen to Beethoven and u r lost in a thick forest.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
*a square garden
@@MuriloFerreira square?
This is SOOOOO TRUE
Nah Beethoven is the best he was the best pianist of ALL TIME
It is so sad that Mozart passed away only just as Beethoven was beginning to find his feet as a composer. Mozart was naturally influential on Beethoven. But how influential would Beethoven have been on Mozart had the latter lived to hear some of LvB's groundbreaking works? What would Mozart's symphonies and concertos of the early 19th century be like? What would an opera inspired by Beethoven's musical ideas and interpreted by the greatest musical genius the world has seen sounded like? And how would that in return inspire Beethoven to further explore, improve and perfect his musical rebelliousness? The fact that the world was robbed of this musical relationship pains me.
Mozart - classical music
Beethoven - heavy classical music
Beethoven was black sabbath of that era probably.
Bach.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
Beethoven was basically the bridge between classical and romantic music.
@@jackjack3320 buT hE wAs dEaF
Beethoven is volcanic.
Mozart is Oceanic.
Bach, cosmic. ;)
Beethoven is an explosion
But Mozart is peacefulness
Lisa Schuster Bach’s music is really hard to play
@@lisaschuster9187 that made no sense. I'd rather say "mechanical".
Your neighborhood friend, Fair enough! (I did wink, you’ll notice. :)
While both were great in their own right, it seems the greatest minds in the classical era of music seem to be of the sense that Mozart was king.
Mozart is the highest, the culminating point that beauty has attained in the sphere of music.
(Tchaikovsky)
Mozart is the most inaccessible of the great masters.
(Artur Schnabel)
Beethoven I take twice a week, Haydn four times, and Mozart every day!
(Rossini)
The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts.
(Richard Wagner)
In Bach, Beethoven and Wagner we admire principally the depth and energy of the human mind; in Mozart, the divine instinct.
(Edvard Grieg)
None of the quotations you give from people in the Classical era; all, except Artur Schnabel, are from the Romantic era.
Also as a musician myself but I have no dog in this race because I can appreciate them all but one has to be careful with quotes from other musicians about other musicians that they admire because we often speak over the top and use exaggerations to make a point especially about someone we admire and sometimes we will do it for some we do not care for much if it is in fashion or politically beneficial. In other words often we can be over generous with our accolades. Not saying that is case but offering an alternative view.
Beethoven is great, I just don't get the same variety of feelings I get when Mozart is in my ears.
Thank you. Been looking for a way to express that very notion.
You just reminded me of Forrest Whittaker in Platoon. "I don't know brothers, but I'm hurtin real bad inside".
Thanks Robert for all the time, effort, and energy you put into your sharing of your joy and knowledge of music with us. I have learned so much from you and thus enjoy classical piano so much more as a result. Wish I was in the market for a piano as I would certainly purchase it from you!!!
Listening to Mozart I want to drink Champagne, the effervescence of the music, Beethoven I want to sip a lovely single malt scotch, the complex aromas floral notes and smokiness both are so Glorious.
I'll take whiskey with either. Because I like whiskey.
Excellent! Well done and well explained. Thank you!
I love both but Beethoven is my man.
same here hahahah
I was about to post something similar lol
Ludwig
m k Thanks for supporting Team Ludwig.
Ludwig Van Beethoven I Support Team Ludwig as well because Mozart stinks
The Dark Composer You deserve a award
Mozart's capacity to create perfect harmony pleases my neurons.
His melodies sound like they cannot be improved if given to other great composers to improve.
I know what he's getting at, but I would put it differently. Mozart is about symmetry and balance, whereas Beethoven's music is somehow both _unexpected_ and yet, at the same time, _necessary._ That is to say, the first time you hear a piece of music by Beethoven, it will often go in completely unexpected directions--but somehow, whatever direction it goes in always seems like it was _inevitable_ and _necessary._
Take the finale of Beethoven's 8th symphony, for example. In the 4th movement of Beethoven's 8th, the main theme (in F major) is rather strangely, and obnoxiously, interrupted by the basses and cellos blurting out a C#. After this interruption, the main F major theme continues on its original path, back in the key of F major. Every time the F major theme appears again, the same ritual is carried out: The main theme is partially stated in F major, a C# interrupts for a second, and then the main theme continues on its way back in F major again. Eventually, this sets up a kind of precedent, so that when the main F major theme appears for the last time and, once again, is interrupted by the C#, we are fully expecting the music to jump back into F major and continue on its merry way. But that's not what happens: instead, the F major theme is interrupted by the C#, and the C# acts as a pivot note, swinging the music into F# minor. This sudden launch into F# minor is really very surprising, and yet it's perfectly logical because C# _is the dominant of F sharp minor._ In other words, Beethoven's music is totally unexpected, but somehow, at the same time, it also seems to unfold with a sort of logical inevitability or necessity.
This paradox of Beethoven is at the root of what people sometimes refer to as Beethoven having one foot in the classical era and one foot in the romantic era. I think a better way to approach it is to think of Beethoven as a composer of the Age of the Enlightenment: his music is both unpredictable or non-deterministic on the one hand, and on the other hand is also permeated by a kind of rational lawfulness. It's as though Beethoven is the musical answer to the Kantian conception of freedom and reason as being inextricably conjoined. The result is music which totally eschews all of our expectations, is consequently deeply rebellious, and yet simultaneously exemplifies discipline and orderliness. That is to say, Beethoven's music is a law unto itself, it is totally self-sufficient, and that gives it dignity. It's as though Beethoven's music is the burning bush, saying to Moses: "I Am That I Am: Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you."
Beethoven's my man. Mozart's good too, of course.
Anarcho Platonist so true
Wow you have an exceptional understanding of music! I love how you break it down & describe so specifically what we' can hear if we just listen. Thank you for your perception & your ability to express it like this. I'm going to listen to it right now you have me so intrigued!
Shut up, nerd
Well, that's how Bernstein put it in his lectures on Beethoven's Symphony (I believe specifically it was in his lecture on the pastoral symphony No.6)
They are two of the great'est composers to have lived. They really cannot be judged, as each is unique.
I love them both.
I dont know!
I love them both! I am not a music historian, but it seems to me that Mozart was the last of his generation, and his music expresses earlier periods with its perfection and rules. It sounds like an evolution of Bach.
Coming a very short while later at the beginning of the Romantic era, Beethoven feels to me like the beginning of his generation, with music that is more open and creative and less rules-focused.
No doubt they’re both brilliant, and their differences present an interesting microcosmic reflection of the broader macro changes in European society at that time.
I would have heard Mozart in the romantic era!! He died way too young!!
Liked to have heard*
*Dieded
itsmemaario died*
Random Girl diededeeded*
itsmemaario diedededededed*
Been listening to these 2 titans in particular for over 40 years- both not human! Mozart’s output was phenomenal over such a short amount of time- Beethoven’s music transports me. Just be grateful we came AFTER these guys not before!
If Mozart's music is like a perfectly cut gem then Beethoven's is akin to a mesmerizing geode.
I have never heard a more powerful and better sonata than the Moonlight sonata the first and the third movement.
Master mind ....this sonata is based on mozart's don giovanni... so its a variation
Sami Haikal bullshit
Please listen to Beethoven's Piano Sonata No.17, Op.31 No.2, Mvt 3
Also known as Tempest Sonata and my all time favorite composition for the piano.
Master mind agree with you 👌🏻
MystiFay This piece is perfection itself it's also one of my favorites 👌👌👌
I prefer Mozart. There's something magical in Mozart's music that's makes me feel happy
I know right, Mozart is just so special. Most of my favourite Mozart pieces are in this video ruclips.net/video/7JmprpRIsEY/видео.html
Mozart is almost like the only musician I listen to
I mean just listen to the music from 1:17:45 to 1:21:00 or from 3:02 to 4:10 from the link above and just imagine how someone could come up with that in their head.
So many beautiful pieces in that video, I love it.
You are wise.
@@wolfgangamadeusmozart8190 dude i love your symphony 41 in C major k. 551 "Jupiter", 4th movement, Finale: Molto Allegro
How did you compose the magnificent 5 theme counterpoint near the end?? The last minute in that movement is my FAVOURITE MUSICAL MELODY IN WHOLE HISTORY.
@@nameless5053 Thanks, so happy that you like it. I don't know how I composed, it was all in my head, it was very easy...😃
@@wolfgangamadeusmozart8190 damn man. That is what I call a real musical genius.
Mozart's music coats your brain with its intricate perfection. Its like a sculpture is growing in your brain, in tandem with the music. Beethoven's compositions commonly lull your brain, a feeling that is the direct opposite you get from Mozart's "sculpture" building. Beethoven can be in one of 2 styles: a tranquil, oceanic, lullaby, or a griping piece that throws your brain into turmoil. It's quite surreal. I personally find myself craving Mozart's symphonies more often, I enjoy the sculpture they builds before my eyes far too much.
Mozart = Light.
Beethoven = Gravity.
Beethoven: raging sea battering the coast during a big hurricane. Love it.
Sadm that Mozart is being labelled as a "light" composer. In fact he was rather stormy for his own time.
José M Solís well gravity does live longer than light....
Bonez0r moonlight 3rd movement??
Chopin = time
The difference between Mozart and Beethoven? Easy. Mozart was the Pop Star, and Beethoven the Rock Star.
inTABELLARIUS ooooooooooooohhhhhhh no wiser words have ever been spoken
A keen analogy indeed!
inTABELLARIUS Well put!
No. Beethoven was the man. Mozart was the angel.
Completely retarded analogy, please refrain from using modern filth as a reference to classical music.
Both Mozart and Beethoven are masters of the finest of music period! We can all enjoy their exquisite music today and for generations to come.
Beethoven was the, "Metallica", of his day....he pressed "low E' and the other parts of the lower end of the scale like no one else...his talents still resonate today...why doesn't anyone on RUclips talk about his deafness and its profound effect upon his music??
Just a small observation on my part. I have never liked the description of Beethoven as deaf, which suggests his ears could hear nothing. Rather, I describe his ailment as deafening tinnitus.
I favor Beethoven's style more, but I also enjoy Mozart when I'm in a productive mood.
Mozart gets straight to the point, says what he has to say and moves on.
Beethoven tells you everything about his day, regardless of whether it's relevant.
This feels accurate.
Not relevant to Mozart fan club snobs
The thing is, Mozart lived a much shorter life than Beethoven and a lot of Beethoven's best came later in his life. Mozart was 35 when he died, Beethoven was older than that when he wrote his 5th symphony and obviously all the later symphonies. But on the other hand, Beethoven was deaf. Mozart wasn't. So they're more or less equal but I feel if Mozart had lived longer he'd have been far ahead of any other composer.
You might want to re-asses your judgement-value on age. By 35, Beethoven had already written the Eroica, possibly the most defining piece of music ever written, far surpassing in complexity everything ever written before it by any composer. Want even better? Listen to his Piano Concerto number 0 (yes, ZERO; it does exist). He wrote it at the age of 14; not too far off from Mozart's 11 (when he wrote HIS first concerto). But there is a delicate beauty and profundity (and surprising MATURITY) to Beethoven's work even at that age that is nothing short of remarkable. I'd say it even matches the Fifth Concerto in lyrical inventiveness, which is a BIG claim to make.
I have to agree with Armaan. Beethoven wrote his Eroica, Mozart wrote the requiem and Bach wrote the Chaconne at age 35.
I think the Eroica is the greatest symphony which Beethoven wrote, but the complexity argument doesnt work at all. I usually give a fuck about complexity in music, as long as it tells a great story.
When people say stupid things like "Mozart didn't write anything complex" i just tell them to listen to his masses and to some of his symphonies just as no. 41 3rd movement. He puts 5 different melodies next to each other for the whole movement.
And Armaan : Dude are you copy-pasting your comments? Lol You've sent me the exact same message months ago telling about Beethovens concerto 0.
This concerto is quite interesting to hear how his composing style invents and how he slowly becomes Beethoven. But Mozart was Mozart from the very beginning. That's why Perahia, Sokolov and Richter recorded all of his early concertos.
The complexity argument works for me, and that's all that matters.
All right mate! Never mind! wtf....
I also think that of Gershwin who passed away at age 39
For me, it has always been Amadeus, and always will be.
kwas101 Amadeus wasn’t in the video you tingly diaper poopy head.
@@sidneyjohnson6882 Amadeus is Mozart. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.
Hapedise Divide19 r/wooosh
Lol, me too. But, it's probably just because I saw the movie. Never watched Beethoven's movie.
@@ludhannsebastivanbachthove4987: *Bach
I would give all my money and everything I own to instantly learn to play piano the way this guy does
It takes the fun out of it but I still understand exactly what you mean.
You must learnt it at young age..
jessica gomez No shit Sherlock! 😂
LOL..if you mean Robert, well, he's a professional, a concert pianist. Make no mistake, that is their vocation adn their talent.....it took him many many years to learn these pieces, perhaps like....what, 40 yrs or more I am guessing? Plus, concert pianists may practice all day, every day....just sayin.... LOL
@@CiaraITB he's a professional. This is his job but he's blessed to do what he is talented in doing...they practice hours and hours per day.... these pieces were all learned and played over a long long time. xo
Beethoven got brokenhearted many times😭
Karl Ledesma ye
Karl Ledesma while mozart f*cked many times 😂
You mean he put his dick in the wrong holes? The white man in America gets no pussy, thus his music is violent, raging, frustration.
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
Thomas Pick profound, you’re quite the deep thinker and stated so eloquently.... Ignorance and bitterness is not the theme here, maybe sit the next one out....
Rossini was professor of music at Bologna University, one day a journalist asked him: "Maestro who is the best composer, Beethoven or Mozart?" Rossini answered: "Beethoven" and the journalist said: "but Maestro what about Mozart?" Rossini replied: "Mozart is not a composer, Mozart is THE MUSIC"
Assolutamente d’accordo!
In Mozart si era incarnato lo Spirito della Musica 🎵
Impossibile che un uomo riesca a comporre a livelli tanto celestiali, IMPOSSIBILE!!!
Perfeito !!!!
In the realm of composed music, Beethoven, Bach and Handel are kings. Just above them, is Mozart, who reigns supreme!
Excuse me? Bach?!
@@brandy2542 Bach is king too, he's just not Mozart. But it's subjective though. Everyone has their valid opinions
@@erformar Well true. We all have preferences
@@brandy2542 And I am over here, And only really love Bach’s preludes and Moonlight Sonata. Then again, I’m a Hard Rock fan first, so that makes sense that I don’t know a lot about this classical stuff.
Reign supreme for you. Beethoven is generally regarded as the greatest composer of all time.
Theres more emotion in beethoven's. It's like he was story telling his feelings or experiences through his music.
To me a big part of the difference between these two incredible composers is in the sound or tone of seriousness in many of their pieces. Mozart's is so often playful, airy, with a light and playful, dreamy quality, whereas Beethoven is more serious, stern, or somber.
Take a few from Beethoven: his Fifth is large and serious and deep, Ode to Joy is less 'joyful' and more 'serious', more filled with awe for his subject matter, while Moonlight Sonata is beautiful and somber, seriously thoughtful and provoking. Fur Elise is another great example of the serious and, at times, an almost haunting quality to Beethoven's work.
Meanwhile, Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca is playful and a bit mocking of the seriousness of others in one part...and listen to what his left hand is playing on the bottom notes...so playful and almost like a polka's oompa-oompa sound, while Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is light and airy and the notes seems to glide, even slide in places, a playful melody that's like lightening bugs blink in the German evening around a group of dancers all joyous in their movements. Even his Symphony #40 has that touch of the playful, sounding at the start as if you've just come in on the music, having missed something...it's like it was already going on but so low that you missed the first few notes and you're catching up with the music.
Both composers are brilliant, but each has his own sound, and I will not say that one is superior to the other. To me that would be like comparing a shark with a tiger...too different to compare, both amazing and at the top of their styles, and each worthy of great praise.
Have you listened to Mozart Masonic Funeral Music K477 or Adagio and Fugue for String Orchestra K546? Beethoven Rage over Lost Penny? You seem to be making your conclusions just from listening to "Best of Mozart" or "Best of Beethoven" videos on youtube.
you just think mozart is light and joyful...
Would it be a shark and a Lion then? Instead of a Tiger or would Bach be the Lion in this scenario, since he's the King of the Composer's!
Also.... Moonlight Sonata.... "somber"? Have ya heard the 2nd and 3rd movement in Moonlight Sonata? 🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤣
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉
Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them.
Check out this works of Beethoven.
Op.116 (1801-02)
Bundeslied Op.122 (1824)
Op.65
Op.108 (1817)
8 Lieder Op.52 (1790-1805)
WoO.90
WoO.140 (1811)
Song "Mit Einem Gemalten Band. Leichtlich und mit Grazie Vorgetragen" in F major Op.83 No.3 (1810)
"Das Glück der Freundschaft" Op.88 (1803)
6 Songs Op.75 (1809)
"Adelaide" Op.46 (1795)
Opferlied in E major WoO.126 (1794-1802)
Opferlied in E major Op.121b (1822-23)
Military March WoO.24 (1816)
WoO.29
WoO.44a
WoO.20 (1810)
Military March WoO.19 (1808)
WoO.155 (1813)
Op.17
Trio for 2 oboes and english horn in C major Op.87 (1794)
WoO.153
WoO.18
Op.105 (1817-18)
WoO.23 (1810)
WoO.37
"Der Mann von Wort" Op.99 (1816)
"Merkenstein" Op.100 (1814)
Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803)
Cantata "Lobkowitz" for Voice, Chorus & Piano in E-flat major WoO.106 (1823)
Lied "Neue Liebe, neues Leben" in C major WoO.127 (1799)
Lied " Der Gesang der Nachtigall" in C major WoO.141 (1813)
Canon "Esel aller Esel, hi ha" Hess.277
Canon WoO.162
Canon " Kurtz ist der Sehmerz, und ewig der Freud" WoO.163 (1813)
Canon "Das Reden" WoO.168b
Canon "Das Schweigen" WoO.168a
Canon "Hofmann und Kein Hofmann" WoO.180
Canon "Das Göttliche" in E major WoO.185
Canon "Schwenke" WoO.187 (1824)
Canon "Ewig dein" WoO.161
Canon "Glück zum neuen Jahr" WoO.165
Canon "Ich bitt' dich" WoO.172
Canon "Hol' euch der Teufel! B'hüt euch Gott!" WoO.173
Canon "Da ist das Werk" WoO.197
Canon "Freu dich des Lebens" WoO.195
Canon "Bester Magistrat, Ihr friert" WoO.177
Canon "Es muss sein" WoO.196
Canon "Sankt Petrus war ein Fels" WoO.175
Canon "Gedenket heute an Baden" No.1 WoO.181
Canon "Gehabt euch wohl" No.2 WoO.181
Canon "Tugend ist Kein leerer Name" No.3 WoO.181
Canon "Bester Herr Graf" WoO.183
Canon "Falstafferel" WoO.184
Canon "Ars longa, vita brevis" WoO.192
Canon "Gott ist eine feste Burg" WoO.188
Canon "Ich war hier, Doktor!" WoO.190
Canon "Abbé Stadler" in B-flat major WoO.178 (1820)
Canon "Doktor, sperrt das Tor dem Tod"in C major WoO.189 (1825)
Rondo for Piano in G major "Rage over a lost penny" Op.129 (1795-98)
Andante and Variations for Mandolina & Piano in D major WoO.44b (1796)
Sonatina for Mandolina & Piano in C major WoO.44a (1796)
WoO.26
12 German Dances for orchestra WoO.8 (1795)
Duet for clarinet and bassoon in F WoO.27
WoO.99 (1796 or 1801-03)
Septet Op.20
First movement from Symphony No.6 Op.68 "pastoral"
Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony No.8 Op.93
WoO.99 (1800)
Serenade for flute, violín & viola in D major Op.25 (1801)
And Sonatinas, songs, arias, lieder for voice and many many more.
I recommend these works of Mozart that have a lot of emotion and feelings.
Fantasy for organ in F minor kv. 608
Andante for organ in F minor kv. 594
Kyrie in D minor kv. 341
Piano concertos No.20 kv.466, Piano concerto No.24 kv.491
Aria for bass and orchestra "Cosi dunque tradisci" Kv.432
Miserere kv.85
Viaticum from Litaniae kv.125
Modulating prelude kv.624
Prelude and fugue for piano kv. 394
Fantasy for piano in C minor kv. 396
String quintet no.2 in C minor kv.406, String Quintet no.3 in C major kv.515
String Quintet no.4 in G minor kv.516 String Quintet no.5 in D major kv.593
Thamos king of Egypt kv. 345
Arias and choruses "Pieta numi pieta" "Qual nuovo terrore" "Ha vinto amore" "O Voto Tremendo" "Tutte nel cor vi sento" "D'oreste d'aiace" from the Opera Idomeneo kv.366
Concertante symphony for violin and viola kv.364 (the second "andante" movement is sublime and very melancholic)
Piano Concerto No. 23 "Adagio" kv.488
String Quartet no.3 kv.156 (adagio)
String Quartet No.8 kv.168 (andante)
String Quartet No.13 kv.173
String Quartet No.11kv.171
String Quartet No.15 kv.421
String Quartet No.18 kv.464
String Quartet No.19 kv.465
String Quartet No.16 kv.428
Quartet for piano and strings kv.478
Masonic Funeral kv.477
Concerto for two pianos kv.365
Adagio & fugue for strings in C minor kv.546
Laudate Dominum from Visperas Solemnes kv.339
Mass in D minor kv.65
Ave verum corpus kv.618
Violin Sonata in E minor kv.304
Rondo for piano in A minor kv.511
Adagio for piano in B minor kv. 540
Overture from Don Giovanni kv.527 Arias "A cenar teco" "Don Ottavio so morta" "Crudele" "Ah soccorso! Son tradito"
Aria "L'ho Perduta" from the Opera The Marriage of Fifaro kv.492
Andantino from Piano Concerto No. 9 kv.271
Piano Sonata No.15 kv.533 (andante)
Piano Sonata No.14 kv.457
Piano Sonata No. 8 kv.310
Piano Fantasy kv.397
Piano Fantasy kv.475
Mass in C minor kv.427
Aria for soprano & orchestra "Popoli di Tessaglia" kv.316
Aria for soprano & orchestra "Mia Speranza Adorara!" Kv.416
Aria for soprano kv.272
Symphony No.25 in G minor kv.183
Symphony No.38 in D major kv.504
Symphony No.39 kv.543
Tremendum from Litaniae Venerabili Altaris kv.243
Piano Concerto No.25 kv.503
Misericordias Domini kv.222
Funeral march for piano in C minor kv.453a
Sonata for violin and piano kv.379
Symphony No.40 kv.550
Sonata for violin and piano kv.526
Variations for violin and piano in G minor kv.360
Piano Concerto No.22 kv.482 (andante)
Piano concerto No.18 kv.456 (andante)
"Laudate pueri" from Visperas Solemnes kv.339
Variations for piano kv.455, kv.354, kv.398, kv.264, kv.500
Gigue for piano kv.574
Suite for piano kv.399
Menuet for piano kv.355
Arias "Der, welcher wandert diese straße volt" "Ach, ich fuhl's, es ist verschwunden, ewighinder liebe gluck" from the Opera Magic Flute kv.620
Piano sonata for 4 hands kv.497
Aria "Wer ein liebchen hat gefunden" from the opera The Abduction from the Seraglio kv.384
Lieder for voice and piano kv.519, kv.523, kv.619, kv.520, kv.390 😉
Beethoven was a revolutionary who completely changed classical music, Mozart perfected a form that already existed.
Beethoven learnt from Mozart you idiot!
Conservative Skeptic you have a point there, but mozart‘s music was also kind of new.
My take is what Mozart did WITH sonata form was immaculate and stunningly genius. What Beethoven did TO sonata form was incredible and stunningly genius. My take is ever shifting but that is what I'm sticking to for now. May i also add I'm no expert.
Beethoven Not revolutionary the piano concerto, beethoven Not revolutionary the Opera, beethoven Not revolutionary the Lieder, beethoven Not revolutionary the piano quartets, string quintets and Not revolutionary the string trio.
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉
Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them.
Check out this works of Beethoven.
Op.116 (1801-02)
Bundeslied Op.122 (1824)
Op.65
WoO.140 (1811)
Op.83 no.3 (1810)
Op.108 (1817)
Op.52
WoO.90
Military March WoO.24 (1816)
WoO.29
WoO.44a
WoO.20 (1810)
Military March WoO.19 (1808)
WoO.155 (1813)
Op.17
WoO.153
WoO.18
Op.105 (1817-18)
WoO.23 (1810)
WoO.37
Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803)
WoO.26
Septet Op.20
First movement from Symphony no.6 Op.68 "pastoral"
Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony no.8 Op.93
WoO.99 (1800)
Serenade for flute, violín & viola Op.25
And Sonatinas, songs, arias, canon's and lieder for voice and many many more.
I enjoyed this very much and mainly agree with it but when I study Mozarts music, I find that it's full of surprises too. Mozart's surprises are less obvious than Beethoven's.
Sometimes I find something new in a piece of Mozart's that I've been playing for years and I feel as though I've discovered buried treasure. I'm tempted to show it off to all who hear, but if I do, some of the special Mozart magic can wear off.
Francis Squire u got four like lucky. You're officially famous now
interestingissimo
+Christian Jiang Interestingississimo
printif('interestingissi'+while true printif('ssi')+'mo.');
*Igor BR* LOL i understood that but what language is that?
AG Cuber Igor++
Interestinghissimo
Mozart was the sun, moon, stars orbiting the heavens. Seasons would change, rivers would flow, and vines would bear grapes. All the while, children would frolic playfully in the idyllic arboreal dell, and occasionally, they would fall asleep and have terrifying nightmares.
Beethoven was thunderstorms, hail, hurricanes, volcanoes, and earthquakes. And in the center of the maelstrom, a solitary figure stands raging, shaking his fist and spitting curses at the fates; occasionally turning away to furtively wipe tears from his eyes, lest anyone see him and think of him as a mere mortal.
That was a beautiful comment. Thank you, what a description
I think this guy gives a great general idea of the difference of the music and periods of MozART and Beethoven. However, music was just a reflection of their spirits and personalities, and they produced some inside the confines of the social structures prevalent in their times. However, when the Artist within them were unleashed, you got music that defies all forms, generalities and structure...It is the expression of the ARTist and the Individual journey to the ARTistry that makes them different. Alas! Both are two of my favorites artists of any medium.
Mozart = classical
Beethoven = classical and later on romantic
Beethoven had a major advantage: Mozart for a teacher. Among others.
For a few hours. Haydn was master of them all.
@@Deibler666 Beethoven would have laughed at that statement. And Mozart would need not to have laughed.
It is canceled by the fact that *He was literally fucking deaf* so yea no "advantage"
@@wubbalubbadubdub4991 He wasn't born deaf tho, he turned deaf later on in life so yea he probably did hear mozart
Debated, not confirmed therefore mute argument
The comments are what I would expect. Beethoven was better than Mozart. Beethoven was "gravitas" and Mozart was "light". These people know nothing about either man. Of course, Beethoven learned from Mozart, just like Mozart learned from Haydn and JS Bach. But Mozart wrote more than 600 works in 30 years, of every different type, orchestral, trios, quartets, quintets, concertos for every instrument, even a bassoon. He wrote his last 3 symphonies in one summer, as if he had them in his head for a long time, and just wrote them down then. He never heard them played. Sort of like Beethoven.
These last 3 are a trio of some of the greatest works of the orchestral canon. They are all different. The E flat intro has violins playing a minor 9th apart with nothing in the middle. Very dissonant, grating. The audience must have been squirming in their seats. The G minor is one of his most famous, and it is obvious that Beethoven heard it, for it sounds very much like his 5th symphony. Mozart takes a 3 note motif and works the entire movement around it and does everything with it, only a genius could do.An entire textbook could be written about this movement. Then the last, which is his final goodbye to the symphonic form, is so beautiful it brings me to tears everytime I hear it. Then after all that a finale that takes your breath away.
Mozart suddenly introduces five themes used in the final movement, one at a time, playing against each other in a fugal form, in a deep bow to the master, Bach, it is only 15 seconds long, but is so electric you don't want it to stop.
This is all personal opinion and taste. The both were two of the best. But I'd rather hear Mozart every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. The man could do anything and everything, the soul of genius is emoted in enough of his works.
What a shame he didn't get to live longer. Also, how wonderful it would have been if he had been exposed to Bach earlier in his life!
Thank for writing this so I didn’t have to!
I’d also add that that Mozart understood the human condition better than anyone. In my opinion, Mozart wrote about us but Beethoven writes about himself. With Beethoven I always feel like he’s trying to wrestle with turmoil within himself whereas Mozart makes me feel I’m not alone in the world and that someone else out there gets me.
There isn’t a single human emotion that Mozart didn’t write about. Love, terror, heartbreak, rage, playfulness, bitchiness - it’s all in Mozart’s work.
Bach, even if some works are wrongly-attributed to him, wrote at a faster pace at certain periods and the hell more complex. Speed doesn't mean genius. We should both agree. I won't believe in this "jewel perfection" about Mozart. What I believe is that he had a shameful inability to innovate. Beethoven and Paganini opened the gates to Liszt and Chopin, and ultimately to the key to music, not to create "jewels" but to move oceans.
The best things of Beethoven is better than any of Mozart's music but both are equal in my opinion
@@Deibler666 JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
books.google.ca/books?id=7iwZ-qTuSkUC&pg=PA134#v=onepage&q&f=false
books.google.ca/books?id=7iwZ-qTuSkUC&pg=PA135#v=onepage&q&f=false
Beethoven is a giant wrecking ball in your face. Mozart is like a gentle kiss. Both is an impressive experience.
"I like these calm little moments before the storm..... It reminds me of Beethoven"
Gary Oldman - The Professional
Amazing how this very talented gentleman can play so effortlessly without music sheets in front of him to follow. Pretty incredible.
Awesome and insightful lesson! Thank you, Robert!!
Beethoven = tension, struggle, trimuph
Mozart = playful, mocking, happiness
To be sure Mozart has a humor that Beethoven never seemed to exhibit
@@PastorBrianLantz That is because Beethoven was tortured his whole life. First, his father, then the whole society. You can't expect a sense of humor from a wounded man like that.
Piano Concerto #20, the Requiem, laugh riots!
Not at all fair to Mozart.
@@sophiadao7325 IKR
I think it's great that they have everyone on this thread so charged up on hundreds of years later. I wonder if anyone else will have that kind of impact
In popular music only the Beatles.
As a kid my favorite composer was Mozart. Now it is Beethoven.
Same
@Chipmunk I'd prefer to call Beethoven "more mature." It's like growing up watching Frank Capra and then later switching to Hitchcock or Kurosawa.
same
@Chipmunk some Kiddo,!!
Lol.
Horowitz himself said that he only start to understand Mozart deep in his late 70’s.
I fell that in Beethoven you can hear the passion he put into his pieces
Mozart: getting ready for a date as a prelude.
Beethoven: on the date and closing the deal as a finale.
beethoven's music has a lot more soul" to it, if that makes any sense. this comes from a man who knows what he likes but knows nothing of what makes something beautiful
So your saying he is better then me?
@@LilLuciferrk_nttt69 in mine eyes
@@arturzathas499 okay
@@LilLuciferrk_nttt69 Don't worry Wolfie, for me the overture of marriage of figaro sometimes just looks like it was a person that became music and it's totally full of soul and happiness
@@joaobutmozartsfan9658 thank you for loving my music and being a fan of me!😁
Beethoven almost goes ragtime in his development. I especially love it when he goes horror-film spooky with the piano.
In many of these ways, Beethoven is closer to Haydn in style, range, and composition than to Mozart.
Precisely, Beethoven breaks with Haydn to create Romanticism.
Makes sense, they were friends.
It makes sense as Haydn was one of his mentors.
@@Deibler666 Beethoven didnt create romanticism, but romantics were certainly inspired by Beethoven.
Certainly Beethoven is the last great representative of Viennese classicism, in his music architecture is the most important thing. The balance of musical architecture is the hallmark of Viennese classicism and Haydn was a great teacher of this school.
I love Mozart, but to me, Beethoven is the greatest composer to ever live. All hail & long live Ludwig van Beethoven.
Beautiful playing and amazing pieces you picked up. Thanks for the video
To me, Mozart is more spiritual and Beethoven more physical, sometimes almost gritty. I often crave Mozart, rarely Beethoven. Life is like that anyway
Easy, mozart puts his mind on his music, while Beethoven puts his heart.
Oversimplification in both cases.
Exactly. To me also:
Beethoven: Cinematic Movie Composer
Mozart: Trailer Music, Jingles, and Pop music
@@Metalpazallteway You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@sophiadao7325 Prove me wrong
@@Metalpazallteway I'd say the burden of proof is on you, as you are the one making the extraordinary claim. Arguments about quality in art never lead anywhere.
It's worth noting, however, that the great composers have always considered Mozart to be at the highest pinnacle of his art. Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Liszt, Rossini, Wagner, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Strauss, Ravel, Schoenberg, Bernstein, etc. were among his great admirers.
Of course, any schmuck on the internet *could* claim that they were all wrong about Mozart's music, and that he (the schmuck) knows better. The schmuck would not be in a position of strength, though.
I love this video and am eager to see/hear more from your former videos. Thanks for the classical music education!
Mozart is the personification of music.
Beethoven is the expression of music.
They don’t make music like this anymore
They make Beyonce now...
Stephen J Isn’t it awful?
Your a fake betch
@@LilLuciferrk_nttt69 OOF good one
@@noahbashizi6846 thanks
Another consideration is that Mozart only lived to age 35, while Beethoven lived to 56. Anther 20 years of maturation and compositional development. It's widely known that Amadeus composed "in his head", while LVB labored tirelessly over staff sheets....one can only imagine what the "Boy Prodigy" would have created with another 30-40 years!
...also, in terms of sheer numbers, Mozart penned as many as 68 symphonies, (41 of which are recognized in the basic repertoire), to Beethoven's 9. Mozart wrote 22 operas(a few abandoned) to Beethoven's one and only Opera, "Fidelio". One could easily say that during his much shorter life, Mozart was FAR more prolific.....
"Often we meet with a condescending attitude towards him, to his music, reminiscent of chiming bells in a music box! ...'It's very nice, but not for me' say such people, 'give me passion - Beethoven, Brahms, tragic, monumental...' Such comments only reveal one thing, these people don't know Mozart." *-* *Charles Gounod*
It's amazing how much mozart was able to do in such a short life.
My dream instrument is the piano. There is just something about a piano, maybe because each one sounds different. I once went into a second hand shop and asked if I could play on the Grand piano and when I touched the first few notes my heart skipped a beat. It had the most beautiful tone. I asked why the price was so high and the sales lady told me its because it was a Steinway ( I had no knowledge about Steinway way back then) So when I was in Dresden in 2019 I visit a piano shop and it was a real treat to play on their Steinways. Last year I entered a local piano shop and played a little on some of their instruments. When I got up to leave the lady at reception called me and wanted to know what exactly I played. She told me that obviously a lot of people play on these pianos daily, some of them professional musicians, but never before did she hear anyone play so beautiful as what I just did. So I had to tell her that it was improvisation, and even though I wanted to, I can never play the same piece again which was the truth. But a nice compliment. I would sometimes drive to a luxury wine farm about 30 kms from my house because of the piano in their foyer. It has the most beautiful tone and normally there are no people around, except for the nearby restaurant. Its the ultimate experience for me to play on this piano and very special, as I know that I will never be able to afford to buy a piano like this. I treasure every second
I love them both but I would have to pick Beethoven. I love the power and sheer humanity of Beethoven's music - works of genius such as the 5th symphony and the Eroica lift my spirits more than Mozart's works. Mozart's music has an ethereal, almost supernatural beauty to it, with such an 'easy' perfection of composition, but it's still not as touching for me.
I admire Mozart for his beauty and perfection, But I love Beethoven because I am apparently one of those people who are biologically encoded to be touched in a deeper place in my heart and spirit by his music.
I really enjoy the extended improvisations in these older videos. I love the way Beethoven surprises us, the stark contrast. I am more of a rough and ready kind than perfection. My husband's favorite composer is Beethoven.
i always thought mozart are more of a happy person while beethoven are full of dramas. :p
Mozart actually wasn't happy.
Beethoven was not always anger, strength and passion, he also has happy, simple or children's works and many he composed after 1805 onwards, so if you are going to criticize Mozart's music for being always happy or childish, I recommend that you first listen all the work of Beethoven 😉
Listen to these works by Beethoven that do not sound with that fury that their fans boast so much about, this is just a sample, I missed more, but then I added them.
Check out this works of Beethoven.
Op.116 (1801-02)
Bundeslied Op.122 (1824)
Op.65
Op.108 (1817)
8 Lieder Op.52 (1790-1805)
WoO.90
WoO.140 (1811)
Song "Mit Einem Gemalten Band. Leichtlich und mit Grazie Vorgetragen" in F major Op.83 No.3 (1810)
"Das Glück der Freundschaft" Op.88 (1803)
6 Songs Op.75 (1809)
"Adelaide" Op.46 (1795)
Opferlied in E major WoO.126 (1794-1802)
Opferlied in E major Op.121b (1822-23)
Military March WoO.24 (1816)
WoO.29
WoO.44a
WoO.20 (1810)
Military March WoO.19 (1808)
WoO.155 (1813)
Op.17
Trio for 2 oboes and english horn in C major Op.87 (1794)
WoO.153
WoO.18
Op.105 (1817-18)
WoO.23 (1810)
WoO.37
"Der Mann von Wort" Op.99 (1816)
"Merkenstein" Op.100 (1814)
Serenade for flute and piano Op.41(1803)
Cantata "Lobkowitz" for Voice, Chorus & Piano in E-flat major WoO.106 (1823)
Lied "Neue Liebe, neues Leben" in C major WoO.127 (1799)
Lied " Der Gesang der Nachtigall" in C major WoO.141 (1813)
Canon "Esel aller Esel, hi ha" Hess.277
Canon WoO.162
Canon " Kurtz ist der Sehmerz, und ewig der Freud" WoO.163 (1813)
Canon "Das Reden" WoO.168b
Canon "Das Schweigen" WoO.168a
Canon "Hofmann und Kein Hofmann" WoO.180
Canon "Das Göttliche" in E major WoO.185
Canon "Schwenke" WoO.187 (1824)
Canon "Ewig dein" WoO.161
Canon "Glück zum neuen Jahr" WoO.165
Canon "Ich bitt' dich" WoO.172
Canon "Hol' euch der Teufel! B'hüt euch Gott!" WoO.173
Canon "Da ist das Werk" WoO.197
Canon "Freu dich des Lebens" WoO.195
Canon "Bester Magistrat, Ihr friert" WoO.177
Canon "Es muss sein" WoO.196
Canon "Sankt Petrus war ein Fels" WoO.175
Canon "Gedenket heute an Baden" No.1 WoO.181
Canon "Gehabt euch wohl" No.2 WoO.181
Canon "Tugend ist Kein leerer Name" No.3 WoO.181
Canon "Bester Herr Graf" WoO.183
Canon "Falstafferel" WoO.184
Canon "Ars longa, vita brevis" WoO.192
Canon "Gott ist eine feste Burg" WoO.188
Canon "Ich war hier, Doktor!" WoO.190
Canon "Abbé Stadler" in B-flat major WoO.178 (1820)
Canon "Doktor, sperrt das Tor dem Tod"in C major WoO.189 (1825)
Rondo for Piano in G major "Rage over a lost penny" Op.129 (1795-98)
Andante and Variations for Mandolina & Piano in D major WoO.44b (1796)
Sonatina for Mandolina & Piano in C major WoO.44a (1796)
WoO.26
12 German Dances for orchestra WoO.8 (1795)
Duet for clarinet and bassoon in F WoO.27
WoO.99 (1796 or 1801-03)
Septet Op.20
First movement from Symphony No.6 Op.68 "pastoral"
Allegretto scherzado and Tempo di menuetto from Symphony No.8 Op.93
WoO.99 (1800)
Serenade for flute, violín & viola in D major Op.25 (1801)
And Sonatinas, songs, arias, lieder for voice and many many more.
Mozart was always insane and Beethoven was always mad
But oh God those last 6 piano concertos from Mozart ...they still suprise me every time.
Although Beethoven admired Mozart, it's obvious that he learned very little from him. The ironic fact is that it's Haydn, who he held in low regard until well into the 1800's, from whom Beethoven learned the most.
beethoven said that from haydn dont learn nothing... I believe there is a quote from haydn where he asked beethoven why he wanted to learn about music but he seemed so uninterested about the claus that haydn was tteaching. And the answer was that Beethoven wanted to know the rules just to break the rules. Sorry for my english!
Beethoven admired Handel and after listening bach he said Bach was the father of harmony
"Mozart's music comes from heaven, Beethoven's music takes you there." famous quote by I don't know who.
Huge fan of Van, the man, only JSB rivals him. Beethoven overcame obstacles like no human before or since. The worse his affliction, the more sublime his music. That is a saintly quality.
Mozart’s has a lot of meaning to me... many of his masterpiece are so bright...
JOHANNES BRAHMS (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
Thank you, Brahms. That saved me the trouble of typing the same thoughts!
;)
beethoven is really genius, love him
I Totally Agree With You.
Mozart’s music is clinical, playful perfection, Beethoven’s music is a raw emotional plea that draws you in-I feel like a therapist listening to a troubled soul describe his anguish ... and somehow, its the therapist that receives the healing of his own soul by listening to the end.