Did Shaq CARRY Kobe?
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2022
- A breakdown of the Kobe and Shaq dynasty, and an honest conclusion on whether or not Shaquille O'Neal carried Kobe Bryant.
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Who's higher on your all-time list, Shaq or Kobe?
kobe
Kobe
You should get on discord Jonny imo
Shaq obviously
@@astroboy9005 kinda crazy that everyone says that actually
Question is: could shaq win a title if Kobe wasn’t there vice versa? No. They both needed each other. And I also remember Kobe saying that shaq didn’t have a 100% work ethic mentality that he had. Man, if he did, they would’ve dominated the 00’s for sure.
Not even the same. Imagine comparing Jordan and pippen... it's not the same
@@bboywolf Jordan also said, he would never win title without Pippen.
kobe won back to back without shaq so im pretty sure kobe could win without shaq kobe wa in is 4th season so obviously shaq would have better stats in 2000s
But shaq was bette simple
@@keeosama who got more rings??😂
This Is why i Wish they was a western conference mvp Back then because Kobe was certainly the mvp in some of those western conference finals
Only 1 in 01 lol
@@bboywolf and 2004
@@kendallthomas6807 he choked the finals away... lol
@@bboywolf he was a second option so how did he choke
.. How do you blame a second option..
Do we blame Klay Thompson when gsw loss the in 2016 finals are did we blame Steph.
And tell me why Shaq loss to the same pistons team the very next year in the east playoffs... Did Kobe choke that away too...
@@kendallthomas6807 he tried too hard to be #1... klay was just doing the same shit until the team had to have a talk with him wtf are you talking about? no one is blaming klay because everyone saw lebron snitch on draymond lol klay avg like 19ppg and didn't jack up a bunch of shots like kobe in 04. kobe was definitely closer to being an alpha than klay but shaq was the guy. shaq lost because wade got injured... shaq was about to win in 05 and 06 if not for a dwade injury lol stop playing with shaq
"I think of Michael Jordan carrying a team that was mostly crackheads" 🤣🤣 Never change Jonny, never change
I came to the comments just to say that😭😭😭😭
@@tyronetnj79 I didn't see it coming man 😂
I LOL'ed
The sad part is that statement is actually true. When MJ joined the Bulls his 2 best players were Orlando Woolridge and Quentin Daily who were both caught up in the NBA’s cocaine problem. I’d argue what he had his first three years was worse than what LeBron had in HIS first three years. Also Orlando Woolridge left midway through those first three years meaning MJ had 1 decent scoring options. Then once Pippen got drafted Daily left. Scottie was good defensively but offensively he was raw as hell
@@legendarywiimaster still not worse than what Olajuwon had to carry from 87'-93'
I’m a die hard Kobe friend. But that shaq was the most dominant player in nba history. And Kobe was clutch!
Like Shaq said they both pushed each other to get better and be better they are the best one two punch 👊 combo. Like Shaq said he was always looking for Kobe when he got doubled and vise versa if they would have stayed together they least would have gotten 5
Yes and no. Kobe really didnt do much and hold his own weight compared to shaq till that last championship with shaq. In all reality shaq was getting triple team and double teamed that got kobe better looks which helped his numbers.
I will agree if shaq stayed they would havr won many with kobe finally emerging as a legit top star but kobe already thought he didn’t need shaq or others which was stupid
I think they would have 6 because Kobe got 2 without shaq and shaq one whiteout Kobe, so I think they would have at least 6
@@juliojafetaguirrerubio1503 if they stayed their whole careers together they would have at least got 7. If Shaq had thought how he does now he see that he was slowing down and Kobe was becoming more of a killer Shaq would have took a step back but he still was commanding a double team.
@Kingbossdon probably 6
What surprises me the most is that Kobe was playing at that level at that age .
Not that surprising tbh, some other all time greats were better faster. Even KG was better than Kobe at this point and they were both the same age.
@@unspeakablyawesomebros3392 said no-one ever
He came off the bench behind Eddie Jones for awhile.
@@Youralwayswhining4367he only came off the bench because his first nba coach was old school and refused to have a high schooler start over a vet. Kobe was killing eddie jones in practice according to teammates.
@@unspeakablyawesomebros3392kg wasnt better, he just played for a coach who allowed him to shine. Kobe played for a coach that really didn’t like him and as a result wouldnt give him meaningful minutes
Can you imagine the Blazers going through to the finals and winning over the Pacers in 2000? We would have Pippen with a title on his own, and Sabonis as well!
Stern didn’t want that
@@tj5180 The Refs didn’t make the Blazers blew a 15 pt double digit lead in the 4th qtr game 7. They nothing but to blame themselves for bricking multiple shots in a row making the same exact mistakes the Clippers would make 2 decades later vs the Nuggets.
Thank you for this Jonny! This is what I’ve been arguing for years. They definitely both needed each other! Great vid!
safe to say they needed each other. They saw more wins together than apart. Dynamic Duo
Not really
The fact that Shaq won all the Finals MVPs and an MVP while kobe won neither is a testament to how much of a sidekick kobe really was in that 3peat.
AI or T-Mac could easily replace him when having a dominant player like Shaq drawing doubles/triples and basically opening shooters by drawing all that defense in the paint.
There is no doubt in my mind that kobe wouldn't have 5 rings without Shaq and that kobe would have zero rings if he didnt play in L.A.
@@ultimateyagermantrue or not kobe not only won more chips but also won a fmvp without shaq and let’s not act like shaq was himself in 06..
@Matt Hayes Shaq rings dont count.
Kobe 2 rings 1 MVP 2 Finals MVPs
Shaq 3 rings 1 MVP 3 Finals MVPs
Sorry kid, looks like Shaq wins 🥱
@@ultimateyagerman it blows my mind that people like you try to diminish Kobe’s legacy because at 21 -22 he was the second best player on a team with prime shaq. And you don’t have to guess the results if you replace Kobe and pair Shaq with a different all time great guard because he had penny hardaway and couldn’t win a ring. The only time Shaq won was when he had an all time top 5 sg on his team. Without kobe or wade he’d be Charles Barkley legacy wise . Meanwhile Kobe won back to back without a top 75 player. And Pau never averaged 20 ppg during those playoff runs. You can praise shaq for dominating no name and old centers in the finals during the 3 peat but Kobe clearly did more with less.
@Impact Over Numbers :cries about kobe legacy getting called out and accuses others of diminshing his career:
:attempts to diminish the guy who won 3 Finals MVPs over kobe's head:
🤡🤡🤡🤡
We have the same opinions Johnny!! Just came out of work!! Thanks for the videos!! I already can’t wait for the next video 😂💯
I'm not going to say Shaq CARRIED him, but he was obviously the better player during that time.. 1st ring Kobe eclipsed Glen Rice as the definitive #2, 2nd ring Shaq just obliterated philly with Kobe having a great season as well, 3rd ring Kobe was slightly a tier behind him..Kobe was ascending, but Shaq was clearly the driving force behind those rings
Dude, basketball, play offs are much more than finals 🤣🤣🤣it is great to talk about the finals all the time, but people always forget the road to the finals. 2000 was the only season where Shaw was clearly better than Kobe in the play offs. Still, in game 7 in the western conference finals (probably the most important game for the Lakers that year) Kobe had more points, more rebounds, more assists and more blocks than Shaq who was guard, Kobe came up clutch in the most decicive game and in the most clutch moments of that game. Soo, if Kobe wasn't soo, great in game 7 against Portland, Shaq would never had a chance to play in those finals and to have the most dominant finals performance we've ever seen by one player. And even with that being said, still in game 4 it was Kobe the one who took over the game with bunch of clutch shots when Shaq was fouled out and Kobe finished that game with 28 points (it was the most important game in those finals). In 2001, Shaq was better than Kobe in the finals, but Kobe was the best player in that play off after the first 3 rounds soo Kobe was the biggest reason why Lakers played in those finals where Shaq was clearly the best. In 2002 Shaq was probably better than Kobe in the western conference statisticly, but again Kobe saved the Lakers in the most clutch games. In the finals of course Shaq was the best player, but Kobe was also very efficient in those finals and had great all around performance that might win the MVP in some other years. Soo Shaq was better than Kobe, but they definitely needed each other. Shaq wouldn't have soo good career without Kobe and he would have only 1 ring without Kobe while Kobe would have 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs over Shaq.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 I'm only talking in line with the context of the video.. The video is barely talking about the season.. I also literally bring up his ascension season in my comment.. I don't know what you're so mad about
Shaq's competition level was inferior to Kobe's on the perimeter.
@@melvinhhcp3615 not in the West it wasn’t plus Dekembe was DPOY when he destroyed him
@@themaninblack8271 The West had the better guards 00-02. There were no legit centers in the West besides Shaq then. If so, name them. Divac?... Btw, Dikembe had an injured hand & was outweighed by 70lbs in that 01 Finals matchup. If you gonna tell the story, make sure that you tell the whole truth.
They carried each other respectfully
Fax
There were many perimeter stars.....there was only one Shaq.
@@LembeckIsStaying you’re saying Kobe was just another perimeter star?😭 he was arguably the best guard in the league. And shaq thought the same
SHAQ was carrying them....KOBE was a ROBIN in 2002 and some times in 2001...in 2000 he wasnt even the 2nd best player most of the time.
@@trolln_ YOU are wrong...FACTS show that SHAQ carried KOBE.
Why are we still having this conversation in 2022. They needed each other and Kobe was sometimes the reason they made it to the finals (his 2nd and 3rd round performances)
Kobe was needed sometimes. Shaq was needed mostly. Stop it. ✋️
@@younglove3362 I don't think you watched the video. They were a duo who both needed each other. They have times where Shaq was needed more or Kobe was needed more. But in the end of the day both won't win those 3 chips without each other
@@younglove3362 what happened in the 2000 playoffs against Portland? What happened to Shaq?
ONLY the goofy critics/haters that try to downplay Kobe’s career say that he got carried.. They also played in the Deadball Era with the most DOMINANT player ever so it was no secret they would pound the ball in to him (Easier baskets). Kobe got better and better every season. RIP GOAT 🐐
Like i think the only chip they could possibly have won without kobe was in 2000
@@papadoc331 Yup 💯
@@papadoc331 Kobe is GOAT, Jordan is top 10, Shaq is top 100, LeBron is top Billion
@@NoName-bb2pu lmao
Another great video! And great analysis. Pls keep up the work Jonny! Absolutely just made my day seeing a new upload from u🙂
I remember watching that 3 peat. Shaq was too much for eastern centers in the finals so kobe took a back seat for them to win, but in the west kobe was arguably option 1 against teams like San Antonio since shaq was getting worn down by Duncan and Robinson. Same thing against Portland. They had like 4 big men constantly fresh thrown at him. Shaq still outplayed kobe some of those games, but they basically were equal in contribution. Only when the other team lacked size or athleticism at center did kobe concede to let shaq carry the load.
Kobe & Shaq were more like a Batman & Superman. Shaq was clearly the most dominant center and best player during those years, but that doesn’t take anything away from Kobe‘s greatness. To say Shaq carried Kobe is a false narrative especially considering the road to those finals. During the Western Conference playoff meetings Kobe was far more important to the team than one might suggest if you simply look at the finals.
In 2000 Kobe had three 30+ point games vs Kings, had his first game winner vs Suns and had a tremendous game 7 vs Portland with the most points, rebounds and assist for his team. Then he got injured on a field goal attempt over Jalen Rose during the finals. Apart from Game 4 where he took over, the Finals clearly belonged to Shaq.
In 2001 Kobe had an 48 Point 16 rebounds performance against the Kings just to follow with a 40+ point game vs the Spurs. And in 2002 he finally had his first great Finals where shot insanely especially in Game 3.
So yeah, Shaq was the best center and best player during that time, but Shaq ain‘t carried Kobe. They both needed each other. Kobe deserved those rings as did Shaq.
To this day my favorite NBA tandem of all time!
You forget the fact that every team shifted their defense to stop Shaq. Even this video doesn't take into account that the reason Kobe would go off early in their run had more to do with Shaq than Kobe.
They were Batman and Robin and who Kobe eventually became wasn't who he was during his Shaq years.
Nope
Batman and Superman would share and win MVPs over eachother
How many MVPs did kobe win ?
@@ultimateyagerman As many as Shaq lol
@Inexpugnabilis I meant when playing with Shaq 🤦♂️
Shaq holds 3 Finals MVPs and 1 MVP when playing with kobe 🥱
How many MVPs did kobe win when playing with Shaq ?
@@ultimateyagerman None, captain obvious
It gets oddly labeled as a carry job because Shaq was so dominant and the team ran through him. But the Diesel wasn’t running full throttle 24/7 and Kobe was bailing them out when Shaq was getting hacked or running into problems.
Naw Johnny I’m not going to lie that “Crackhead” line caught me off guard 😂
Another banger as always 🎉
Neither carried neither. They both played their part. Kobe killed the outside, shaq dominated the inside. Amazing duo. So sad they butted heads or they coulda won at least 2 more chips together
Yo Jonny is it fair to say that in the last two titles 01 and 02 that their pairing was more like Batman and Superman as opposed to Batman and Robin? I always looked at the first title as a clear indicator that Shaq was the 1 to Kobe’s 2 so that is more of the Batman and Robin season but those last two title years especially 01 it seemed way more like a 1A 1B situation and I wasn’t really around back then so I just wanted to get some clarification on that
Yeah. Kobe was slifhtly better player than Shaq every other series before the finals in 2001. And Shaw exploded to the finals and nobody could stop him soo for me when you analise all those things, they had the same impact in 2001 play offs. Before the finals, Kobe was the best player in the whole play off while after the Finals Shaq was the best player. Also in 2002, maybe Shaq was a little bit better, but still Kobe was killer in that play off too.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 that makes no sense. Why don't you mention the lack of guard play in the west compared to the east. Only 1 sided narratives
@@bboywolf??? The fact is, in the west there were more players who were great in the pain like Vlade Divac, Tim Duncan, simply in the western conference there were better big men and Shaq hand't soo dominant numbers in any series like the finals. While east had more tougher guards than the west like Allen Iverson and Jayson Kidd and that's the time when Kobe and Shaq switched places and Shaq destroyed the Phily even with Dikembe because Kobe needed to face the MVP of that year and the best guard in that time, Allen Iverson. West had better big men players and east had better guards in that time, that's it.
That's a good parallel.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 so why give kobe credit for playing around Shaq level until the finals? Shaq had a harder road to the finals. Where's his credit? It works both ways. 3 rounds of big men and then 1 round of guards... Shaq had more to do and did more point blank
You should do the western conference and eastern conference mvp's from 1984 to the time they was actually introduced.
RIP Kobe.
I feel like this has been discussed a few times on this channel already. Shaq was one of the most dominant players of all time in his prime and he was most probably more important than Kobe in these early years of Kobe's career. However, having two stars is usually better than having one and these two complemented each other very well.
Something to point out is that Shaq didn't simply out produce Kobe. He made his opposing centers look like kids. Kobe won a lot of those games in the 4th quarters while Shaq was fouled out or missing free-throws.
Kobe and the team benefited from Shaq as he got the other team in foul trouble and the bonus. Shaq clogging the lane and controlling the boards was extremely valuable back in that era. Both needed each other it was 1a 1b. Shaq was clearly the alpha. As it drastically showed once Shaq got traded.
In my mid teenage years I was hooked on basketball and watched the Shaq-Kobe dynasty as it unfolded.
Everyone felt at that time that they were nearly equal in greatness, and were each the best players at their respective positions.
I supported Iverson, the 6ers, the Knicks and Nets, and wanted the Eastern Conference to always best the Western Conference. (Was also a huge KG fan).
I loathed the Lakers, but feared and respected them.
Shaq was unstoppable and Kobe was relentless.
With all that being said, on "Top Players of All-Time" lists, Kobe can't always make the Top 10. It's no slight to him. There's just a lot of competition.
But many viewed Kobe as the second best player in the league (or even the first best) even way back in the Lakers 3-peat.
I mean, yeah, carried is probably too strong of a word. But the point is Shaq is the reason those rings were won. and look back over Shaq's career. wherever he went, finals runs or rings were the result. he was truly one of the greatest to ever do it.
Ok
@@yuko6585 couldn't win a chip before kobe only won one without kobe and wasn't even the best player on said team
Did Kobe get carried by Shaq?? No Kobe was like 1b to shaq 1a. Shaq was definitely the best player. Bt kobe was instrumental in those titles
Always enjoy your videos
Every SUPER Star needs a complimentary partner(s) to exert their dominance. Just like Jordan-Pippen, Duncan-Parker, Bird-McHale-Parrish and Magic-Kareem-Worthy. Shaq and Kobe were a duo that should always been mentioned as the tandem of legendary NBA lore.
I’d say they complimented each other very well. If they won the 04 finals they may have more rings together.
They didn't cuz Kobe can't star like shaq
@@___Anakin.Skywalker your little theory was already proved wrong in 2009 and in 2010.
@@facelessandnameless my nega you forgot Lakers won with the help of David Stern? How they got Pau for FREE !!! FREE my nega Pau Gasol for FREE. They woulda got CP3 too if not for peoples seeing through the bs
@@___Anakin.Skywalkerthey literally got Marc Gasol and two firsts. Pau isn’t a top tier Hall of Famer like most superstar’s sidekicks. Pau isn’t dwade or pippen, etc. grizzlies were a poverty franchise who never envisioned Pau as a future franchise player. They needed to trade him somewhere. Shit, just looking back, Marc Gasol for pau Gasol is literally a fair trade
If the drama surrounded Kobe at that time didn't exist we would've witness greatness that never been accomplished not just Kobe and Shaq but Karl and Gary espeacially P.J. catching Red Auerabach's record, smh that should have cemented that squad in history and just what if Shaq didn't go to south beach ?.....we would not see Dwayne wade and Alonzo mourning including Pat Riley coaching the 2000 era.
Great video Jonny!
I think you also need to look at how much easier things were for kobe vs shaq. Shaq was often doubled by the opposing teams best defenders in the post when he had the ball, and without the ball he still had the best defenders more concerned about him than kobe. This allowed kobe to often iso 1v1 against the opposing team's average defender. Shaq's gravity on offense was quite beneficial for kobe in all those playoff runs together. Obviously once shaq left, kobe became the most doubled and even tripled player on the team.
i get your point but i do disagree with it to an extent since shaq is a center and kobe a guard. If a team had a good wing defender they sure as hell werent sending them to shaq and vice versa for a good paint protector/post defender. It all depends on each individual teams personnel. Maybe if they had a lot of good defenders around the perimeter they would rather focus on not letting shaq get the ball at all by putting pressure on ball handlers since they didnt think they would be able to handle shaq down low.
Shaq is getting doubled by the bigs, kobe is getting doubled by the wings. 1v1 iso doesnt really lead to open or easy shots with how clogged lanes were back then, even if you beat your primary defender its not like theres not gonna be anyone waiting for you at the basket and thats why you see all the clips of kobe hitting shaq with a dump off pass after a drive.
shaq made things easier for kobe definitely but kobe was more than good enough to make things easier for shaq aswell.
Shaq had the best big man defenders guarding him. Kobe had the best defensive wing players guarding him. I mean regardless of what you're saying Kobe still has a job to do and Shaq benefited from it. They complimented each other very well
Kobe(r.i.p)played his part but u saw what he was to become. NTM he was hearing talk around the league amongst his peers that anyone could've won w/Shaq. He made it his mission to prove ppl wrong......& he did!!!!
I nearly spat out my drink at the bulls crackhead line hahahaha, that joke came out of nowhere in an otherwise serious video, loved it!
Your analysis is spot on as always Jonny, Kobe is one of my favourite players ever but he was clearly No. 2 at this stage of his career. I did find it interesting just how amazing Kobe played in that second title run though, always learn something new with your videos!
Good job once again Jonny!
Love the analysis!
All you need to know is this. Shaq never came close to repeating while Kobe repeated twice
What are you talking about he was old but he repeated one more time with dwade on the heat so he has 4 rings and kobe has 5
@@shorts26 he didn't repeat with Miami lol they won in 2006 and got swept in the 2007 playoffs. He was against but definitely not old. Shaq could've won MVP in 2005
Define "close." He took the defending-champ Pistons to 7 in the ECF in 2005. Now, they're looking at the Spurs in a hypothetical Final, and I'd favor the Spurs in that matchup, but I could certainly see Shaq and DWade making that competitive at least.
@@Rodanguirus lol dude when you're referencing the possibility of a repeat , that possibility starts after the first championship. Because had they won in 2005, who's to say their determination would be the same in 2006?? So you have to start with 2007 which is when Miami got swept
OK, Shaq got to the Finals with the Magic, Lakers, Heat. He was the best center in the game for many years where the center was often the main scoring option for many teams at the time.
In the 2000 finals other than game 4, yes, Shaq carried (that was only because Kobe was playing through and injury). In everything else it was a Batman Superman relationship.
ABSOLUTELY , and if you "think" differently -- check the films!!!
Exactly and if it was that WCF championship 🏆, Kobe would have won at least 2
Let’s compare their numbers when they played together.
Regular Season Shaq: 26/11/3
Regular Season Kobe: 21/5/4
Playoff Shaq: 27/13/3 on 55%
Playoff Kobe: 22/4/4 on 43%
WCF Shaq: 27/13/2 on 54%
WCF Kobe: 23/4/4 on 43%
Finals Shaq: 33/14/3 on 60%
Finals Kobe: 22/5/5 on 41%
Shaq vs Indiana: 38/16/ on 61%
Kobe vs Indiana: 15/4/4 on 36%
Shaq vs 76ers: 33/15/4/on 57%
Kobe vs 76ers: 24/7/5 on 41%
Shaq vs Nets: 36/12/3 on 59%
Kobe vs Nets: 26/5/5 on 51%
Shaq vs Detroit: 26/10 on 62% 16 FGA
Kobe vs Detroit: 22/4/2 on 38% on 22 FGA
Stop lying 😂
Thank you for that definition at the end there. I really don't think people know what they're saying when they say so-and-so was carried sometimes
Great video. Great topic
“Mostly crackheads”😭😭😭😭😭
Facts
That part made me laugh
Shaq just seemed more "dominant" because there was less competition at that position. Kobe was equally as dominant in the perimeter, where he had to guard play making 1 guards and shooting 2 guards.
KG, Duncan, Robinson, Rasheed Wallace, Mutombo, Vlade, Webber all played in 2001 just to name a few. Shaq had legitimate competition. He really was that dominant
@@lesm3870 that is facts but that is why Shaqs numbers were inflated in the finals. I see you didn't mention any Eastern Conference big men.
@lesm3870 and he had 100 pounds on all them and in the west where he barely got by
The Spurs making Shaqs life tough and giving Kobe a chance to shine makes total sense. Look at the Spurs personnel.
Prime Shaq is tough for any player to beat. I think some people might forget how he not only dominated offensively, and defensively, but that he would get the entire opposing front court in foul trouble. I think of the premier big men of that time, and Shaq dominated them. Meanwhile the guys that were Kobe's competition, like McGrady, or Iverson, were playing close to, or sometimes above, Kobe's early years.
But then, 2nd wave Kobe, which I'd say was 2005+, when he hit HIS prime, he was equally as dominant, but in different ways - going off for 60+ points on 60% FG, plus 81. Kobe, at his best, was the best.
I get that MJ is the GOAT, and I basically agree (won't dig in), but I think Kobe's finest was better than MJ's finest - it's just that MJ was more consistently great, whereas Kobe wasn't quite as consistent.
Shaq was an established superstar playing his absolute best basketball and Kobe was young playing well hand and hand with him so I wouldn’t ever say he carried him
It's impossible to. How can someone who average darn near 30 in the playoffs and 1st team NBA be carried lol.
The Lakers record without Shaq vs without Kobe those years speaks for itself.
I am crying at crackheads lmao literally made my day. great vid as usual.
Simple answer: No
Long answer: carrying someone is not them average 25+ points. In fact, Kobe saved Shaq on multiple occasions, I don’t see why this is only used on Kobe. By these peoples logic, LeBron carried Wade, Magic carried worthy, MJ carried Pippen, Kawhi carried Siakam etc. Just because you don’t win FMVP doesn’t mean you were carried. Also, MJ and LeBron WOULD NOT have Finals MVP with Shaq. Shaq was a center and he was so damn good. Kobe averaging 15 isn’t great until you realize he sprained his ankle. I don’t know why we don’t give Jaylen fat nose any crap for injuring Kobe INTENTIONALLY. Also if we keeping it a buck, when we talk about the 2000 Lakers we say Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq. Winning FMVP doesn’t mean you carried, you were just the most valuable player on the winning team (unless you’re Jerry West).
Aside for 2000, I don't think Kobe and Shaq were batman and Robin.
I believe it was more batman and superman.
Kobe was the 1B to Shaq 1A.
When I think of batman and Robin, I think of wade and Bron, MJ and scottie.
Kobe legit had a case to better than shaq throughout the west playoffs, and you said it yourself, those were the real finals
Nah
How many MVPs did kobe win when playing with Shaq ?
You cant make this argument when they were never equals
@@ultimateyagerman that is so stupid, Kobe literally ranked higher than shaq in the mvp race for 2003 and 2004, how does he suprasse Shaq in those years but can't be in his tier In 02 or 01?
Just stick with the finals mvps argument.
And I already admitted Kobe was Robin In 2000, I'm souly talking about 2001 and 2002 being 1A and 1B
@random person Shaq has an MVP over kobe too
You mind answering the question? How many MVPs did kobe win playing with Shaq ?
@@randomperson2540 there’s no 1A or 1b. Shaq was clear number one and Kobe was 2
Kobe was only better during the 3peat for a couple series but shaq was better 95 percent of the time
You’re also massively looking over how every other team guarded the Lakers, Kobe often got free reign to shoot for better or worst because teams were tripling Shaq in the post
Not true at all
Teams had to cover both. It's a choose your poison thing.
And Kobe was only 22 years old and still had 35 points per game against Sacramento on 47% shokting and 33 points on 51,6% shooting against San Antonio. I don't care how much was Kobe guarded or not, simply he was incredible player in 2001 play offs, incredible...
@@ihaveadream3321 Ok so if that's the reason why Kobe was great then why was he still great when they separated? Kobe was even tripled and quadruple teamed more than Shaq when he was traded and Kobe still had the same results. Also why did Horry, Fox, Fisher not blow up when everybody was open in the team and average 25 pts? Stop this nonsense that Kobe was good because of Shaq bullshit!
@@kendallthomas6807 it is true
This was very well made
interesting notes; Jordan was a rookie the same age kobe won his first ring.
this would have been the equivalent of rookie MJ playing with Moses Malone..as shaq was 27 and Moses was 29
Short answer, after the first, no he didnt. Clearly about as good for different reasons and Shaq himself called Kobe the best in the world during the second playoffs of the 3 peat. Just because Shaq logically dominated the finals because Eastern teams had no one to guard him, that does not mean he carried them through the way harder WCF. There it was often enough Kobe saving their asses even during the first run, with Kobe singlehandedly taking game 7 WCF for the Lakers after being behind near 20 and statistically they were equals too especially after the first run.
Point being one of the greatest 1A, 1B duo's.
Even during the first I wouldn't say Shaq carried Kobe. Not when you got Shaq getting fouled out and Kobe emphatically and successfully picking up the slack in his absence.
Solid comment
While you’re absolutely correct about Kobe being amazing vs the Spurs you can’t also overlook that the Spurs were specifically built and set up to stop Shaq which is partly why Kobe could feast so much
@@themaninblack8271 The Spurs weren't built to stop Shaq, lmao. They were already the champs in 1999 when they swept the Lakers, before L.A. figured out how to win. You guys just get on the internet & say anything to discredit Kobe. Zero factual context at all...
@Rasuke11 When did Mike say that about Pippen? I call BS on that. MJ was always the man. It wasn't no secret either. It was internationally known that Jordan was the best in the world. Idk where you guys be coming up with this crap. Lol
You can make the argument Shaq carried Kobe in 2000, but without Kobe, Shaq has no championships in LA. In the 2nd and 3rd championship run, you can't say Kobe was carried.
How? If I already proved I was the primary mover why would that change just because kobe played better? 01 Lakers were better because of kobe getting better... but they would have won anyways with 00 kobe lol
I would say he carried Kobe in the finals, but Kobe was the best player on the court in the most decicive game in the western conferencez game 7 where he completely outplayed Shaq, soo if Kobe wasn't soo good in that game, Shaq would never had a chance to play in that finals and to have the most dominant finals performance we've ever seen. Both needed each other for those championships.
@@bboywolf I say Kobe was an emerging star in the 1st championship, but he was a superstar in the 2nd and 3rd championship.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 Shaq and Kobe did need each other, but I was trying to say that Kobe was an emerging star in 2000. In 01 and 02 he was a superstar.
@vineelkesavarapu5736 how when he never won a ring as the best player? You can't be a superstar and not win. Shaq Duncan were the only real superstars up until kobe broke out in 09.
Probably the best Kobe vid out there. I am huge Kobe fan but yes shaq was better he was older it was his team but they needed each other
Best logical presentation I've seen. As a Kobe fan who's keeping it fair, I agree with that fact that he was carried on the first championship but not on the next two. Obviously, Shaq can't win all three without Kobe, the same with Kobe not winning it all without Shaq. They complimented each other - being a shooting guard and a center, they have different games.
Another argument that I can present is their matchups on all those runs: among the centers that Shaq faced during those years, only Dikembe's name sticks in my mind - because he was a solid all-star and the rest of Shaq's opponents are names anyone will forget and might have been forgotten. Kobe, on the other hand, played against Reggie Miller, AI, and Raja Bell (an elite defender) - more competition on the back court. So, Kobe putting up his stats while having more competition on his position speaks volume that he fought his way up to be included in the conversation. So, yes, he was carried during their first ring but not on the next two.
Ayoooooo that MJ carrying crackheads comment has me in tears 😭
Ok that Michael Jordan carrying crakheads line got me rolling 😂
4:59 eliminate game 2 of the 2000 Finals which is when Kobe sprained his ankle in the first quarter, Kobe scored 19 points per game in that series.
COME ON JONNY A VIDEO ON DREAM TEAM 2 (94 FIBA TEAM). COME ON! IVE BEEN ASKING FOR 2 YEARS!
The answer is yes and no. Shaq definitely carried the earlier years when Kobe was still learning how to play in the NBA. As time went on it became more of who's matchup was better and just how much they schemed to stopping Shaq at all costs. Kobe definitely played a significant role and shouldn't be disrespected. He was always there and contributed a LOT.
The real question is whether Sam Bowie carried Shaq and Kobe.
Not on those weak legs! 😁
I had this debate the other day in real time, I watched a few of your vids and now I subbed you know what you're talking about. The narrative was Shaq had all the MVPs and Kobe didn't, I compared that to Iggy get MVP over Steph... no way he "Carried Steph". They needed each other, keep doing what you do 💪
Bruh that "crackheads" comment took me outtt!! 😂😂😂
i see it as shaq being superman and kobe being batman. the world's finest
Too bad, Kobe was Robin. Second in command and Beta to the alpha.
@@younglove3362 and that's okay. Kobe was one of the best 2nd options in nba history. Probably being surpassed by steph curry and maybe kareem abdul jabbar
Jason Kidd was a fucking menace and a great point guard; the fact that Kobe was able to lock him down on defense while still being a high scorer on the other end is so under-appreciated.
1st title: Shaq=Superman, Kobe =Robin
2nd and 3rd title: Shaq was Superman, Kobe was Batman
4th title attempt: Shaq was Old Man Logan, Kobe was X-24
Excellent vidéo
They were both equally important on that particular Lakers team
equally? LOL...how old are you???
@@onlyfacts3178 did i accidentally offended you by saying that bud?
not really, but ok. Didnt you watch the video?
@@dejamike88 not equally just shaq was SUPERMAN and Kobe was Batman difference so u see they aren’t equal but not far
@@kbak1919 did u ?
This is probably my least favourite narrative in NBA history.
It's my favorite!
Shaq clearly was their best player, that being said, he didn't carry Kobe. Kobe was equally important as their 2nd best player, as having 2 top 10 players at the time made them won that 3peat.
This is the problem with “stats ppl”cuz momentum is a big deal, Stuffing Jason kid n rallying a win when Shaq fouled out are huge momentum shifts in a series that no numbers on paper will ever show. When down by 13 n willing the team to come back for a win have a psychological effect on your opponent. Like damn we have to deal with this guy as well disheartens a team n you won’t get that from clips or stats 20 years after the fact
Yea Shaq was Batman Kobe was Robin
Nah bruh. Not even Shaq himself agrees. He literally himself called Kobe the best player in the world during the second playoffs run.
Nah. When they played together, Shaq was Superman and Kobe was Batman.
@Larsoboy123 so what? If Shaq said kobe was better than Jordan would you say it was true? Lol
@@bboywolf Doesnt matter. He didnt call Kobe better than MJ and even if he did the chance is big that he'd know better playing against both than some random nobody like us who watch from a far on a tv.
That's like thinking I know what it's like to be in a war better than a person that lived through a war, because I watched some docu's about wars.
@Larsoboy123 once again just because he said it doesn't make it true. If it was the case why didn't he give him the finals mvp trophy? Right because it was Shaq. Shaq was the top 50 player before kobe was even an Allstars
Short answer, yes he did. The amount of attention & focus Shaq got defensively from opposing team undoubtedly gave Kobe easier looks, a lot like Klay Thompson.
Kobe would've started carrying Shaq by 2006 though. Roles would've been flipped.
Dumbest thing I heard 😂 they was also doubling Kobe Shaq had the paint by himself
They should rework the Finals MVP into Championship MVP and consider every playoff series and not just the finals series alone.
Shaq still would have all 3
He got 1 more than Shaq & like Kobe said “you can take that to the BANK!” 💯
That whole ring debate means nothing. If that's the case look at wilt chamberlain, he owns the record books and better than Shaq or Kobe for that matter
Shaq won the Finals MVP in all three championships that he and Kobe won together. Shaq was the dominant player, at least at that time in their careers.
To be fair, Kobe was held back a lot by the organization and coaches. Especially his first couple years, when he should’ve been starting.
You only talked about finals but you don't even know how they got there. Nice analysis. Hahahaha! Just a typical nerd you are.
0:58
He looks SO COOL with the baby 'fro!!!!
in 2000 it was like a lebron-kyrie dynamic while 2001 and 2002 it's like KD-Curry or Magic-Kareem (both in their primes) dynamic...
Ron artest was the best defender on lakers he never got into the all defensive team but kobe did " MANY TIMES " . It is all about narrative, kobe was way inefficient but nobody talks about that .
KIRILENKO was leading the league in blocks and having games with 5 steals..and wasnt even voted...
DEFENSIVE teams in this ERA are horrible...
And only dumb people look at that STUPID accolade...because now there is no positions so its a lot easier.
KOBE was getting 1st DEFENSIVE teams with another SG ( B.BOWEN) being better than him.
Shaq won a ring and kobe avg 15ppg in the finals...that's it
Kobe and Shaq had different work ethic if Kobe was still alive he would say he doesn’t want people say he needed Shaq
Great video with clear points
Another would Kobe had 5 rings without Shaq no disrespect to Kobe R.I.P mamba but this is a good point
Saying Shaq carried Kobe is like saying KD carried Steph.
Stop it
STEPH makes 8 bad games and 2 great games...
I see many comments here saying Kobe was better at his peak than Shaq. Shaq was for sure better than Kobe. Shaq lead the league in PER 5 times to Kobe ZERO. Shaq lead the league box plus minus (BPM) 4 times to Kobe’s ZERO. Shaq lead league in win shares 2 times to Kobe ZERO. Shaq had 8 seasons With higher win shares per 48 than Kobe’s best season, Shaq had 8 seasons With higher PER (player efficiency rating) than Kobe’s best season, had 3 seasons with higher BPM than Kobe’s best, etc. at their peaks, shaq played better and shaq played MUCH better in the playoffs having arguably 3 of the best finals performances ever. Even in Shaqs first finals at age 22 he had monster numbers of 28pts 12 reb 6ast 2.5 blk 60% fg.
I think Shaq summed it up recently, ball went to him for first 3 quarters and Kobe needs to close it coz of the free throws, so they needed each other, just like any couple
at 9:59 you can see Magic saying "they going for 10" he meant 10 championships, too bad they didn't get even 1 more together
Shaq didn't win with penny but he won with Kobe I'll never believe Shaq carried Kobe
Because when he was with PENNY he was against HAKEEM...
KOBE got carried...by SHAQ and GASOl
if shaq carried kobe then why did he win only 1 championship without kobe?..
kobe made it to 3 straight finals With shaq.. and also to 3 straight finals Without shaq..
BECAUSE GASOL carried KOBE....those LAKERS without GASOL lost 5 games and won 5 games the 10 games GASOL missed.
AND THOSE ARE FACTS....without GASOL those LAKERS were struggling to get the last play-off spots.
I'd actually rather would play 2and or 3rd fiddle and go as far to even coming off the bench because players and fans never know what to expect from anybody imo
Kobe was no Robin, he was Batman.. but Shaq was Superman
True
did kobe win after shaq left..
Yes in '09 and '10
@@jop3249 Only AFTER Jerry West (working behind the scene in Memphis) saved his sorry ass and gave him Pau Gasol (Another HOF Center, BTW) for nothing.
@@JAWrightonline Are you stupid or was it a joke ?
@@JAWrightonlineesus Christ, if it’s not one thing. It’s something else you’ll look to diminish.
Ppl love to just move the goalpost or diminish someone. Whether it’s Kobe or even Bron for example.
So was Kobe, not supposed to let Jerry West build a championship roster with him in LA and bring in help? Stupid take.
20-28yr old Kobe isn't winning with Orlando or LA from 92-99. Gasol outscored and outplayed Dwight and the big 3 Celtics in the Finals.
The only carry job was done by the refs vs Sacramento.
Yeah that was str8 bs! Still happenin today.. even more now with gambling everywhere
nah, it's the same as ever - you have to TAKE the title, nobody 'allows' you to win it
@@shaft9000 ya no that was a robbery even Tim Donaghy, who was caught fixing games admitted that game was fixed.
I also wouldn't forget Dwyane Wade in the 2006 Finals for a legitimate case of a superstar carrying his team.
Bottom line: no player has EVER carried a team to a championship. Michael Jordan was the closest, and he had some of the best three-point shooters and defensive wings on his team. It takes a few to tango.
Yes, yes he did
I don’t think that, I know that
Lool
FINALLY, THE TRUTH!!! Without a HOF Center (Shaq/Gasol), Kobe is no different than Tracy McGrady: A talented perimeter scorer who can't win a playoff series. Look it up. Kobe never won a playoff series without Shaq or Gasol.
Honestly, the more I think about it, look at the rest of the players around those two and the coach. It's hard to say anyone carried anyone.