As someone who knows MTG much better than YGO this is amazing, it is like the CCG equivalent of watching an archeologist stumble around a series of ruins and trying to figure out "based on this building's central location and wide backed tables it is most likely some manner of tavern or church..."
@@jhannigan210 I mean the assumption that the 1 cumulative upkeep on Mystic Remora was discarding and not generic mana was kinda funny and not something I've seen someone make before. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm actually a Magic player (Modern and Legacy mostly) not a Yu-Gi-Oh player ^^
I love how a non-player of MTG spent something like a minute looking at Skullclamp and realized it's absolutely broken, yet the designers were so incredibly shocked that the card nearly killed the met it was first printed in.
Iirc the story with skullclamp was like this: Originally it was planned as a +1/+1 effect, but they changed it to +1/-1 last-minute because they thought it was too good and shipped it without testing. Turns out if the draw engine can kill the creatures itself, it's pretty good. Who knew?
They also shipped it and immedietely realized it was broken but literally could not do anything about it, so they just sat there for months, waiting for release, knowing the card was absolutely busted.
@S V If you believe Oko was a last-minute change, I've got a bridge to sell you. The reason they "keep making the same mistake" is that it is a convenient excuse with a strong precedent that takes the heat off them for pushing the power level to sell cards. We know that since Shadows over Innistrad, they've been egregiously dosing up chase mythics with extra card draw, cost reduction, inevitability, value on cast or entry, and keyword soup to keep people cracking packs. At least 2004 Wizards had the decency to ban Skullclamp in the quarter it was released, as opposed to waiting until they cleared out the booster boxes and locked in their profits.
@S V There was an article discussing Emrakul 2.0 after her banning, in which they admitted that pressure from above to craft something that would definitely see tournament play factored into the development of the card. It isn't conspiratorial to notice that problematic cards and decks seem to last juuuuuust long enough to get another set or two out before Wizards suddenly notice the degenerate format they've created. Even if it was a conspiracy, consider that a small environment like Magic is the perfect place for a conspiracy. This isn't a vast network of independent actors. it's a single company which controls all aspects of the game besides the secondary market, and even then they still have great sway.
I would like to see that too, but I feel like it's easier to go mtg card/yugituber than the inverse, as I feel there are more rules you need to know just to understand what the card does in ygo than mtg.
@@GroundThing Speaking as someone who learned how to read ygo cards recently, there actually aren't too many cases where not knowing exact rules makes reading cards difficult/impossible. So long as the mtg ytber takes a few minutes to learn PSCT before attempting this, they shouldn't have too much trouble understanding what most cards do.
To all the Yu-Gi-Oh players in the comments seeing this, it's likely that the "video about One With Nothing" mentioned is the one Rhystic Studies made. It's a very good video, as is everything else on the channel.
One with nothing: awful Carrion feeder: really good Mystic remora: oppressively good in multiple formats Timothar: ok Platinum angel: used to be really good. Now fine Skullclamp: I don't have the time to tell you how much this card's existence is a mistake. Think ratpier levels of "what the fuck did you do to the game"
I appreciate how your evaluation of Platinum Angel was 'play it and then do something degenerate.' A lot of people's first instinct is to play it and just sit on it forever, never losing. The fact that you evaluated it as a way to win, rather than as a way to not lose is really neat, and shows there are definitely some skills that transfer from game to game.
My only modern deck that used platinum angel was a crappy but VERY degenerate azorious control deck (white blue) that NEEDED plat angel to survive or make things worse. It won me 2 games. One against a zombie mill deck cause no removal left in the deck and once using my nasty combo involving plat, omniscience and tamiyo to effectively use any instant spell infinitely. Deck had 4 counters and 4 safe passage as well as 2 og Avacyns, world eater, world Slayer, karn liberated, lab maniac, blinding angel... it was atrocious. Slow... but atrocious.
@@joehadari7315 I used it to cheat out my Phage commander, to be able to cast her without losing the game and once she's on the battlefield I don't give a fuck what happens to plat, I just want to one shot every mf
Honestly seemed like his evaluation of it was more correct than the chat. 7 is a lot of mana, but the formats where this card is legal have a plethora of way to get that amount of mana fast, and he's exactly correct that it's an enabler for degenerate things. However, there's some context he was missing. First is that the two easiest types of cards to deal with in the game are artifacts and creatures, so the angel being both makes it extremely easy to answer. Second is that it's been mostly superceded by Platinum Empyrion, which has the almost as good line of text "your life total can't change", but on a much more reasonable cost to body rate. Plus, some of the degen stuff you can do with the angel are actually better with the empyrion, since you don't immediately lose if the empyrion leaves the battlefield.
Something chat didn't communicate well with Cumulative Upkeep: The upkeep cost increases each turn. The actual text reads: "During your upkeep, put an age counter on it, then sacrifice it unless you pay it's upkeep cost for each age counter on it." So if Mystic Remora has been out there for 3 turns, you need to pay 3 mana, not 1. A good way to compare it to Yugioh would be is if imperial order had cumulative upkeep, it would cost 700, then 1400, then 2100, and so on, during each standby phase.
Only time l've seen the card used has been in EDH/Commander format, specifically with commanders that could re-call it back from the graveyard making it really good (on top of having more than 1 opponent for potentially more noncreature casts)
Skullclamp: exists YGO player not fully familiar with magic: this sounds busted! MTG players who know: it is! We're not sure how R&D missed how busted it was. Rather famously the card used to give +1/+1, before it was "nerfed" to +1/-1 right before it was sent to the printers. And then it became one of the best cards ever printed, ever.
A card that wants your creatures to die was nerfed so it can kill your creatures without aid? That's it, solid proof aliens exist, because clearly they were smoking something beyond what exists on this planet.
@@_Vengeance_ To be fair, it sounds like a design oversight. It’s not like Thassa’s Oracle, where multiple designers knew it was stupid but the moron who made it refused to change it.
@@_Vengeance_ they didn't think people would use it that way, they thought people would put it on a big creature you where going to attack with to give you some value if it dies to disincentivise your opponent from killing it so it was designed to be really weak protection on a big beater.
When One With Nothing was in print, there was a deck that forced everyone to draw multiple cards, prevent them from casting more than one spell a turn, then punishes opponents for having too many cards in hand. One With Nothing was a sideboard card used against that deck and was rather effective. Outside of that context it's pure garbage.
One place I could see it used is in Madness based decks as a cheap discard mechanic, but even there it still isn't very good unless you're into the mid to late game and have the mana to madness multiple things at once. For those who don't know Madness is a triggered mechanic that lets you pay the Madness cost to activate the card when it gets discarded from your hand. Madness cards either cost a lot less if you play them for the Madness cost or get some kind of additional effect from using it but this is balanced by usually costing a bit more than equivalent effects if you don't use Madness to cast them, so it incentivises having a discard engine in your deck to get the most from madness triggers.
The problem I saw was he compared the card to Maxx C rather than Shared Ride (which it is closer to). Maxx C is good because it's a handtrap, and because lots of Yu-Gi-Oh decks have to summon many times per turn; that doesn't really apply so much here.
In magic card advantage and tempo are much more separated than in yugioh, that is why cards who have really good effects but cost a lot of mana may be "bad" cards.
Well, cards with good effects with a steep cost (or summoning conditions) are bad in Yu-Gi-Oh too, it's just much harder to evaluate the cost when you don't know the game. There are plenty of cards in Yu-Gi-Oh which literally have "you win the duel" printed on them, that no-one plays because the condition is too difficult to furfil right now.
@@IamGrimalkin that can be said for cards in Magic as well. There are some cards that have "you win the game" printed on them. Yet, the condition is typically hard as hell to meet, and cards that have a "lesser" effect see a lot of play because they win you the game in a much easier fashion, usually through a combo. For instance, one card called Torment of Hailfire is often used with combos that generate infinite mana (the resource you use to play cards). Well, it's quite simple to set up an infinite mana loop, then play Torment, which essentially damages your opponents until they lose or at least drains their resources to a point where they can't have any chance of coming back and beating you, forcing a scoop. Then there is a card called Biovisionary that reads "at the beginning of your end step, if you control 4 or more cards called Biovisionary, you win the game." Basically, it reads right before you end your turn, check to see if you have 4 or more copies of this card on your side of the playing field. If you do, you win. Well, honestly, I've been playing since the card released about a decade ago and I have never once seen it played. There are even creatures (monsters) that make it easier to win with the card because they come out as an exact copy of that card, yet it still sees little to no play. I personally think it's a sign of good balance when a card literally reads "you win" but people only play it in fringe cases or not at all because the cost to win is far too great.
@@Eric_The_Cleric Well, I'd say that in an ideally balanced game every card would be played, otherwise what's the point of printing them? That said, win condition cards are often either taken from the anime or were intended as meme cards; so the intention was never for them to be played in the first place.
@@IamGrimalkin Depends. There exist different formats in Magic, so not all cards are meant for all formats. And some cards are meant to be janky combos, intentionally not put at an oppressive powerlevel. Some cards exist for flavor more than power, etc. So I'd disagree, ideally not all cards have the same competitive viability.
I was pretty surprised how well they evaluated carrion feeder. It is indeed a very good card! In addition, the fact that the sacrifice is a cost, not an effect means that it happens immediadly as you declare it. You can for example sacrifice a thing your opponent is trying to steal from you and they literally can't do anything about it.
Not to mention that just being able to kill your own creatures for free at instant speed is itself a huge advantage in the right deck. Lots of cards either benefit from dying or from other things dying, through life drain for instance. In an aristocrats deck, playing a Carrion Feeder at the right time can give you the game through mass sacrifice triggers.
Not true. Conceding the game is an action that doesn't require priority OR use the stack. The first part of using an ability is declaring it's use, followed by naming targets, THEN paying costs, ergo your opponent can respond by scooping.
watching him realize that skullclamp is one of the most powerful cards of all time is hilarious. "hold on, so you can kill all your creatures and draw a whole bunch of cards?" yessir it's lots of fun
Something that was missed about Carrion Feeder : it's a free sac outlet. There are a ton of decks that care about death triggers, either having creatures that do things when they die or having cards that do stuff when another creature die, or using reanimation as a way to get "enters the battlefield" effects multiple time. Hence why it's really good, but not busted : on its own it doesn't do much (there are way better sac outlets out there), but it's still a free sac outlet on legs that only cost 1 mana.
I used to have a 5 drop zombie that destroyed a land on enter and on death. I'd use death bomb to sacrifice him in order to kill one of their creatures, take 2 of their lands doing it, then cheat him from the grave (he's a ZOMBIE) and do it all over again. Great way to mana starve the opponent
@@chrismanuel9768 My main commander deck wins by playing a creature that, on death, deals 2 damage to any target, sacrificing it and resurrecting it a hundred time to kill everyone. In MTG, death is just another part of life !
It’s also that it becomes a threat on its own if you ignore it, every time you try to kill another creature, it instead becomes a +1/+1 for carrion feeder. If that happens too much, you’re staring down a bigger and bigger beater you’re not going to be able to ignore for much longer
Arguably the fact that it's on legs is the part I like the least about it lol, I'd bet if they made an artifact that was cost 1 and had the ability "(0): Sacrifice a creature", it would see play
Skullclamp is the perfect example of Rule 12 of the Evil Overlord List: "One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation." If someone not even versed in the rules of the game can identify just how broken a card is, it should never see the light of day.
Conversely it seems like a really fun card to play casually. So print it, and then ban it from competitive. That way people can have fun playing broken decks but it doesn't completely ruin competitive.
@@jacobockman709 The thing is, there's even a discussion to ban it in the most played casual format "Commander". So far it has survived, but it's always a must-kill target and not really fun to play against. Even if you have a solution during your turn, it is often already to late bc the other player will have drawn 4-8 cards already. At which point either the whole table turns towards them or they win. Most often they just win. One reason it's kept in is because white and red-white commander decks famously suck at drawing cards, but do equipment & tokens very well and this is virtually their only good drawing tool.
Well, not being versed in the rules of MtG *specifically* doesn't mean he doesn't get the ebb and flow of TCGs in general. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that skullclamp gives way more than it costs, but understanding the concept of value in a TCG is still a requirement.
Very spot on analysis overall! At the end of the day MTG is mostly about trading resources, and +1 and -1 advantage are usually still the most important things in the game at the end off the day. Doing some more of these in the future would be fun! The main thing to keep in mind with cards like Timothar and Platinum Angel though, is that high cost cards who don't have an immediate impact on the board state are generally bad. Many decks never even play 6+ cost creatures unless the deck is around turboing them out and they are immediately game ending. Timothar and Platinum Angel both need to sit on the board for many turns for you to gain notable andvantage, and both are fragile by themselves. For examples of good 6+ cost monsters for comparison, see the Titan cycle (Primeval, Grave, Inferno, Sun and Frost). Each one had good stats, a good passive ability and gained you some advantage both on summon and on attack. They demanded answers due to their power and persistent value, but even if sniped they already got you some value on arrival. While eventually they became a bit dated, they remained premier top end creatures for many formats. One with nothing: Terrible. Not much support for no cards in hand. Usually nothing you can do that's game ending with no cards in hand that is enabled by it. Carrion feeder: Good sacrifice outlet. Some cards gain benefits from being sacrificed, going to the graveyard or having other cards go to the graveyard or be sacrificed. Or sometimes you get tokens for free/cheap who you can fodder. Having a cheap way to facilitate those while also gaining some benefit is good. You can also fodder off something about to die from a kill spell or combat or whatever too. Only downside is it's low base stats (so it can be sniped by damage effects and can't safely attack without getting some sacrifices first) and once it becomes a stat stick it can't protect you. Mystic Remora: Excellent card. Costs increasing amounts to keep around each turn, but draws you a lot of cards eventually. Even creature spam decks run a fair amount of noncreature spells for support and utility. By the time you can't afford it's upkeep any more, it should have drawn you a lot or forced the enemy to burn removal on it. Even if removed, it should at least be a +1. The tax is way too high to usually bother with to prevent draws. It is an old card, so by default it is banned in all but ancient formats that allow all the broken cards, so it doesn't see that much use simply because older formats have even more broken cards. Timothar: Basically an bad vampire deck boss monster. At 6 he's fairly expensive since Black does not have good ways to get expensive creatures out early. It's stats are below average for the cost and he has no battle abilities himself. His ward effect means if he gets sniped by a spell, it's going to be a -1 for the opponent usually, but it won't stop a determined opponent from sniping him. He then gains you persistent value if you have other vampires on the field. The bats can be sniped by pinging them with low damage, but just free 1/1s all the time isn't terrible even just as a resource. He can be good if the game goes long and you can maintain your board until he comes out. But he's not someone who will immediately swing the game in your favor without setup nor solo the opponent himself. He's meant for a kind of slower format, but even there he seems a bit slow and fragile. Platinum Angel: Hilarious card, but impractical. Expensive to deploy and doesn't really progress your side at all. Most decks have ways to get rid of a creature, so it will ultimately only buy you a bit of time until it's sniped unless you have a lot of tools to protect it. With it's high cost it will be hard to both summon it and then protect it in the same turn, and most all protection has ways around it (target protection can be bypassed by all target spells, destruction protection can be bypassed by banishing and stat drain, etc...). Scullclamp: one of the most broken cards in the game ever. It turns 1 health creatures into pots of greed for the lowest cost possible in the game besides free. If you can make a steady stream of 1 hp tokens or fodder, you get endless card draw. Anything that gives consistent card advantage in MTG is super broken. Anything that can give you a lot of card advantage in one turn is also super broken. This can do both.
There's a reason my artefact spam Commander deck has skullclamp on the wishlist. Draw one on summon, -6 cost to summon and draw 2 with skullclamp... throw in the infinite mana combo that is +3 mana on tap, and -2 mana to untap any card on a non once per turn, and when it gets going it's unstoppable.
It's closer to old Yu Gi Oh in theory, to a degree. Yu Gi Oh never had a resource mechanic outside of the normal summon limit and cards drawn, but back then card advantage was king. Magic is a lot like that -- trading resources for advantage in lower power formats. High power formats cheat the resource system a lot to do overpowered things quickly, like modern yugioh.
Ok, just have to drop in to take mild offense to "Black does not have good ways to get expensive creatures out early" - it's literally the reanimator color. What's more important is that there's not any formats where reanimation is cheap where you can't just find something better to summon instead, lol. Much like YGO in that regard I suppose in that there's a ton of monsters you could theoretically build your deck around getting out but if it doesn't swing the board on its own its kinda do nothing. The interesting thing about Platinum Angel is that the effect is actually very good in the exact way TheDuelLogs suspected it could be, but people don't play it with Plat Angel, they just play Angel's Grace to get it at 1 mana so they can combo off with Ad Nauseum in Modern. Or, well, I guess they used to, I haven't seen that deck in a while. The funny thing is that... I wouldn't /really/ say you can simply turn it into "whatever gives consistent card advantage in MTG is super broken", because in MTG card advantage is much easier to get than in YGO. The trick is doing something with those cards is harder. What Skullclamp does is, as you say, it trades at an INSANE RATE. You can draw theoretically infinite cards with something like Blue Sun's Zenith at the rate of one mana per card, or draw a card per turn quite consistently with Phyrexian Arena, but those effects aren't so strong as to be totally broken on their own. It's the fact that cards like Dark Confidant are so cheap that makes them actually good.
I'm so far removed from YGO and so familiar with MTG that even something like "Wait, there are creature spells?" is something that I wouldn't even really think about now. It's engrained into me that everything not a land is a spell. Would love more content like this.
I only play Magic, I've never even glanced at the rules in YGO before. I must say it's almost surreal coming in at this angle, it shows how much I take for granted my knowledge of the rules and mechanics in MTG. I actually think I would have a similarly difficult time trying to understand a Yu-Gi-Oh card, and I find that fascinating. Maybe give Magic a try sometime, and maybe I'll try Yu-Gi-Oh!
I’ve only dabbled in Magic, but I think they’re sorta opposites in that regard. Magic’s rules and fundamentals are easy to learn, but the nuances and strategies are harder since from what I understand, it is a much more resource and strategy-oriented game. With Yugioh, there’s a lot of rulings and interactions that don’t make much sense or are not very obvious (like how chains work), but once you have the rules down, there’s not much nuances outside of knowing the meta game and what defines a good card.
@@cubeshot5737 yeah, there's a good chance when you are playing against a deck you haven't played against before that at some point you'll need to either ask a judge how some card of yours interact with a card of the opponent/opponents or just Google and pray someone else has had that same problem. And I honestly love that. It keeps the game interesting and different, even after years of playing it.
@@simranvl115 yeah I play mostly commander in Magic and sometimes trying to figure out how some of the old cards actually work alone after so many rules changes alone can be a challenge and that’s before adding in any interactions with cards that don’t have older or newer cards in mind. Like Aaron pointed out doubling season and planeswalkers, doubling season affects their entering tokens but not their abilities uses because one is an effect and the other is a cost.
I've only dabbled in MtG, but something to note about Timothar: yes the bats have to survive for a turn, but it's harder to remove a weak monster in MtG compared to Yugioh, since players cannot target creatures for attacks; players can only target players/planeswalkers for attacks, and their opponent must choose to block those attacks in order for a creature to die. There _are_ removal/damage spells of course, and there _are_ sorceries/instants/etc. that force fights between monsters, but you can't just run over a bat with any old beatstick like you would for a Barrier Statue or a Herald of the Arc Light. That being said, Timothar seems pretty mid at best. If you're spending 6 mana on one dude, generally speaking, you want that creature to be able to win the game outright (I think).
Yeah, Timothar's problem is that it provides interestingly long-term value, but it's not a card that you can get onto the board early. If Timothar's effect was a 1 mana enchantment, or even if Timothar was a 1 mana 1/1, it'd be a very different story... but as it is he's just a terrible thing to try to end the game on. It's honestly fairly comparable to something like a two-tribute monster - would /you/ spend two tributes on a monster with "When a monster you control is destroyed and sent to the graveyard, banish it, create a 100/100 token, and you can resummon it if that token deals battle damage to the opponent also the token can't attack the turn it's summoned"
@@TheDJCharmander He is literally unplayable in standard because he's a commander pre-con card and not legal in anything but commander, vintage and legacy.
Both Luminous broodmoth and Nightmare shepard were recent cards with similar effects that costed less, aren't legendaries, had no associated mana cost for the triggered ability, and were much less conditional with their protection. Heck, you have to attack with the bloody token that already cost you mana to even get your vampire back... Even Hofri Ghostforge, which is in current standard and wasn't printed in a commander product like the baron, does the reanimation when killed better than him while costing one less mana and offering an useful static ability!
I LOVED you and chat swapping all the terms, keywords, and effects from magic into YuGiOh terms. Haha. The fact that upkeep and standby phase are the same never clicked in my brain till just then. Wonderful video I hope it becomes a series and catches on with others!
I don't play YGO but I'm really impressed with your card evaluation here! You were pretty much spot on across the board, good job! This makes me want to try the same thing but with YGO cards now
This is really cool that you did this. Magic is a fun game, my friends taught me the game and I taught them yugioh and we all like them both. Pokémon next?
Yes but Pokémon was much deference mechanic. Is more simble to understand but is much deference. Here we have card discard 2 card and draw 6, and almost no one play this! Is common use descard your hand and draw 7. In Pokémon the draw engine mean nothing. I mean is powfull but you can always attack ones every turn anyway.
All supporters are shared hard once per turn so you cannot use different supporter cards after you use one. He probably gonna think card like Hau is good because it lets you draw 3 but then Lillie, Cynthia, Professor Research outshine him in drawpower. Also since in Pokemon after battle is end of a turn, he would also probably think Charizard & Braixen GX is broken because you can search any 3 cards after dealing 180 dmg, but it is just an okay card and nowhere as strong as the meta pokemon of that format back then (fucking ADP). So yeah, definitely looking forward for his reaction towards pokemon cards.
As a magic player who knows the lore and a few fun stories, I know that Mystic Remora has an art mistake. The name Remora means a hindrance, but it’s also the name of a fish type. The artist didn’t know that, and didn’t know it was an enchantment
why is it an art mistake? it honestly seems entirely in keeping with mtg canon that MR summons a literal aetherial fish that attaches itself to your opponent's connection to the planes or whatever and siphons off energy for your use
Cumulative upkeep increases per turn after the permanent (a card that sticks on the battlefield) stays on the battlefield. So if it's turn 3 and you had Mystic Remora since turn 1, you pay 2 mana at the start of the upkeep step (which is something like the standby phase). You're basically cutting yourself on mana (which is crucial to cast most spells) for card advantage. EDIT: Also, something to add is that the discard of One With Nothing IS THE EFFECT. The COST is the 1 black mana.
Yea, and very important thing that he missed is that in magic you have to pay for cards to play them yes, remora is a busted card draw engine, but its crippling tax stops you from ant board development, which is not good. So yea, this card is complicated, and in a good way.
@@danielwappner1035 commander is a big format with a lot of history, the video would suck if it's just standard cards. But also they didn't choose any really good cards for the video and if they did chat was there to convince him that they have the right answer because mtg is only fun if you win to most people that play the game
@@aidantaylor3324 mystic remora is terrible outside of edh. It hasnt been in standard for 20 years. I'm not sure why do you think I'd rather have them talk about standard. It's just that the stream chat was giving only edh opinions and that is, uhm, not great
I watched the entire stream, but I LOVE this format. Sometimes I don't have time to watch hours of a stream and I prefer bite-sized edits if I have to choose one. Highly support if you want to keep this a consistent thing.
The reason why platinum angel doesn’t see play, is because it’s too expensive to play fairly, and if you want to use it as a combo tool, you’re better off using angels grace, which is a 1 mana spell speed 4 instant (so basically handtrap) that says you can’t lose, your opponents can’t win, and damage can’t reduce your life below 1 for the rest of the turn
Also the effect itself is kinda pointless; it's only useful if you're already losing, and it doesn't actually do anything to change the fact that you're losing. It's only good to stall until you pull out your big combo to flip the situation, or as part of a combo that would win the game but would also kill you. Nice defensive thing, but ideally you don't want to *need* it.
Platinum Angel is also an artifact creature, making her weak against a ton of removal. Green and White easily destroy artifacts, Black and Blue can destroy/bounce creatures. Red hoses both artifacts and creatures.
Hardly any deck uses Angel "defensively". You cheat it into play from grave or with tinker then either make it impossible to remove, ad nauseum your whole deck to hand or "final fortune+Isochron scepter" loop for infinite turns. Once you have those online you can kill by knocking yourself to 0 and playing swap life effects. It's not the best card ever, but you're undervaluing it. It's a commander staple for a reason.
Like in Yu-Gi-Oh, cards being "good" or "bad" becomes subjective to time. You'll always see a new card get printed that suddenly breaks an older card. It's just in the nature of a long lasting TCG franchise to have "combos" and "synergies" to become overlooked as new designers and directors come and go. It is incredible though that Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG have enough overlap that I feel that anyone who plays one game can transition to the other given a bit of practice and would appreciate the familiarities but also the differences. When I transitioned to MTG, I was amazed that there was no limit to the board size and that actual "infinite" combos were always a possibility. MTG offers one format that is probably what keeps me in and that's Commander; a 4-Player format where you play against 3 other opponents and either work with them or become the arch-enemy. Yu-Gi-Oh can't really support that kind of multi-player from when I played since the player going last would always be at the most disadvantage given how MTG has a resource system and Yu-Gi-Oh's main restrictions was the Normal summoning.
very true. the mystic remora was seen as junk for like 15 years until multiplayer formats got popular. 1v1 it will draw you 1 or two cards if you're lucky before the cumulative cost gets to be too much (it adds 1 each turn) but in a format like commander it will likely draw you at least 3 cards before you even have to pay the first time.
I loved this. Hoping to see more of this. Maybe with a Magic player in chat and taking turns with each trying to figure out cards from each other’s game.
As a magic player who has been playing for almost 20 years, here's what i would say to give my assessment. All in all you did pretty well. One with nothing: not completely worthless. Like most cards you can build around it to capitalize (i used to run it in a casual madness/hellbent deck that would use paradox haze and panoptic mirror to cast this and wheel of fortune to potentially get up to 14 madness spells on upkeep. It didnt work often but it was always a rush when it did.) Carrion feeder: important note, it doesnt lose the +1/+1 at end of turn. They're counters so they stick around unless removed or carrion feeder leaves the battlefield. Mystic Remora: Cumulative upkeep is... Well... Cumulative. It increases at the beginning of each of your turns. Basically you have to pay the upkeep for each turn it has been in play. So turn after you play it, 1. Next turn, 2. Turn after that, 3 etc. It adds up really quickly, especially when its taking away from your ability to add to the board. Ive never seen one stick around longer than 4 turns. That said, the amount of cards you can draw off it in those turns can be insane. Platinum Angel: too slow, too easy to remove, huge target, low stat line, can very easily cost you the game. All it takes is for you to let your life total hit 0, go to do some degenerate crap and your opponent uses anything that will destroy a creature, or an artifact, and you immediately lose. Creatures and artifacts are the easiest permanents to kill with the most options in multiple colors. (Creatures: every single color can get rid of it easily. Swords to plowshares, smite the monstrous and multiple exile effects for white. Any number of fight spells for green, burn for red, outright kill, -x/-x or drain in black, bounce and the occasional kill in blue. Artifacts die really easily to White green and red for cheap. Disenchant kills artifacts and enchantments in white, naturalize in green (or Krosan Grip if you want to show them that you REALLY fucking mean it) shatter, shattering spree more options than i care to try to remember for red.) All in all not a bad assessment. I wouldnt say platinum angel is bad per se, just extremely inefficient and dangerous to rely on. One with nothing is basically always bad unless your running some jank thats built around using discard effects or having no hand.
I’m pretty impressed by the level of mindfulness of context and support pieces displayed in this video. Even if you don’t know what that context is, that fact that you’re immediately able to figure out “this must have some combo/synergy” is really impressive.
I'm so glad you decided to use my idea! I'd be more than happy to help with any ruling questions and suggest more cards to look at but your chat was pretty good about it for the most part. One thing that may not have got across about Mystic Remora's cumulative upkeep is that it builds. So the first turn you have to pay 1 to keep it on the field, next turn you pay 2 and so on. But yeah even still the amount of value it generates is insane. I think you're right about Platinum Angel. There are lots of decks that can get 7 mana quickly and there are lots of degenerate things you can do with it, like any effect to pay life. There are also really powerful cards with little cost but they say "you lose the game next turn" like Glorious End or Pact of Negation. Platinum Angel will protect you from those downsides as long as you can keep it around. Some really funny cards I think you should look at are Knowledge Pool and Hive Mind. Thanks again, I can't wait to see more of these kinds of videos! Have a good one
Back then when I'm not yet aware of how MTG is played, whenever I get to see an MTG card, I always have this feeling of mystery towards them, not knowing how they operate or how to use them. And it's actually cool tbh, since because of that feeling, I also felt like it's cool to collect them. I dunno, it was weird, but yeah, to me it kinda seemed cool to collect such cards that I don't even know how to use 😅 And then bam, YGO happened. I was in 6th grade around 2003/2004 when the anime was first shown here in the Philippines. I instantly fell in love with it and of course it naturally introduced me into the world of TCG which I haven't known before. It was cool because I also love those kinds of games when you have to rely on your brains and luck, and you have this "something" with you that you have to battle with against other people. I love that kind of concepts even in videogames, that's why it's only natural for me to also love the gameplay of YGO. Too bad though I wasn't able to experience playing the actual TCG version, but instead only played it through its handheld games, from the GBA ones, to NDS up to PSP. And then 2012 happened. I was already in college by this time. Our internship has already started, reason why the number of our classes has lessened so much. I remember going to school just to attend one or two classes per day, and we have the rest of the day for nothing lol. Then one of my blockmate/friend introduced us to MTG, and then the rest is history. I thought it was cool that I'll finally be able to know how it's played. And then we went into constructing our own decks. And yeah, the only time I managed to fully experience TCG is when we/my own group of friends/blockmates started playing MTG. It was both fun and enlightening...enlightening in a way that I didn't even realize that MTG's community is that immense and lively! It's because it was only that time when I started to discover that there were a lot of shops around our city selling cards and organizing weekly tourneys especially FNMs (Friday Night Magic). I didn't even know before that stuff like that happens lol. So yeah, it was a fun experience while it lasted because right now the rest of my friends has stopped playing already. Only my other friend and I are still showing some interest into the game and are still checking out cards whenever we have time, so I like to think that both of us were just on a very long hiatus haha. Funny, looking back to our senior years when we started playing MTG even in our school, I remember seeing some of our juniors who also started playing TCG because of us. Only difference is that they play YGO iirc. I wonder if that became a tradition or has become a thing in our college campus after we graduated.
One with nothing is used in Madness decks. As Madness gains additional effects or cheaper cost for discarding them. Carrion feeder is a very powerful creature that it is a Sacrifice Outlet. Its is featured in a style called Aristocrats. Mystic remora is incredibly powerful card. Many decks use it. Timothar, is a really good in vampire tribal. But also consider the fact that summoning sickness only applies to the turn it is summoned. So if that effect triggers during your opponents turn they can attack on your turn Platinum Angel isnt really played often. Targeted removal is easy to do. Skull Clamp is a borderline broken card.
Madness decks are blue, green, and/or red and none of them run at one with nothing. You'd have to do the madness cost right then and there and more often then not you wont have enough mana to cast more than 1 spell. Also you have to hold cards in your hand until you're ready and even then you're setting yourself for failure. You're vulnerable to hand disruption and then when whatever you drop in for madness gets countered or removed you won't have any cards in hand.
You were spot on everytime, your chat was wrong Platinum Angel is good in exactly the situation you thought. There are a ton of ways to cheat it out to avoid paying 7, too. It's not like, insanely good, but it is good. Also, impressive that you saw the benefit of Skull Clamp immediately! Not even R&D noticed lol, it was originally +1/+0 and they "nerfed" it lol
So as a Yu-Gi-Oh card, it sounds like Skull Clamp would be a Continuous Spell (or self-returning Equip Spell) with the effects: "During the Main Phase you can discard 1 card[*]: Place 1 counter on a monster you control, that monsters gains 1000 ATK and loses 1000 DEF for each counter placed on it this way. Any monster with a counter placed on it by the effect of this card whose DEF is reduced to 0 is destroyed (Even if this card is no longer on the field.) If a monster with a counter placed on it by the effect of this card is destroyed: Draw 2 cards." I imagine depending on the rulings for that MtG card, a proper recreation could also have its effect activated during either player's turn (except during the Damage Step) and/or have the if-destroyed effect also be a "(Even if this card is no longer on the field.)" [*] I'm not sure what the YGO equivalent for Mana would be, whether that would be Life Points or something more abstract like banishing a card from your grave.
probably the closest Yugioh equivalent to that equip cost would be paying 100 lifepoints. It's very minimal and the card advantage far outweighs any risk unless you're close to death. There really isn't an equivalent of lands in Yugioh and discarding or banishing cards wouldn't really net you card advantage like it does in MTG, just would be really effective card filtering.
You can think of MTG Equipment as being more like an Equip Spell that sets itself if the Monster it's equipped to is destroyed, and can be re-equipped to a monster you control with its equip cost. Interestingly, Equip can't be used during OP's turn, its essentially an Ignition Effect ("Sorcery speed"). There's really not a great equivalent to Mana, but something like cards or LP is the best.
@@pepperonin1914 Originally the "one normal/tribute summon per turn" rule was designed to function similarly to mana. High cost monsters required low cost monsters as tribute, which functionally slowed them down. The abundance of special summoning has made this obsolete though.
I'd love to see more of these! I'm more of an M:tG player (Used to play Yu-Gi-Oh, last thing I remember was Synchros.) And it's interesting to see how well you can recognize power between games. 'Cause most of this was accurate! Not so much Platinum Angel. Yes it can be a degenerate combo piece, but it's also a 7 drop artifact creature with 4 toughness. It's usually gonna cost your opponent 2 or 3 Mana to get rid of it with an instant, and mana trades can be, depending on your deck, about as big as card trades. If you have an enchantment or artifact to grant it indestructible or Hexproof (Cannot be targeted by opponents), they can still often respond to that and kill it. f they can't, it can be strong. But they often will, and there's workarounds.
One With Nothing is one of those cards that's completely bad by itself, but is so cost effective & good at what it does that it's just waiting for another card to come out to be completely broken.
@@God-ch8lq basking rootwala is good, but there are plenty of ways to discard single cards that you gain benefits from the discard besides rootwala's madness cost, so I wouldn't say it breaks this. It's like there are cards your opponent could play that punish you or benefit them from you having more cards in hand, but this is still just a sideboard option against those decks.
@@BobertJoe don't be so hasty. There just needs to be 1 solid set where a draft archetype is based off you having fewer cards in hand & I have a hard time seeing that in any other color except black.
@TheDuelLogs would 100% suggest doing more videos like this. despite having not played magic, you are doing a really good job determining which cards are good and bad. My recommendation is to look at a card like 'Tibalt's Trickery', I would be curious to see how you examine the card.
I think one of the funniest examples of this are the fetchlands from Magic. I don't play Magic but I've heard plenty about how broken the fetchlands and how essential they are for competitive play in Magic. But show them to a Yugioh player and they would be confused, since we've had Terraforming for an eternity and EVERY archetype moves cards from the deck to somewhere else.
@@windknife People tend to over-estimate how useful the thinning aspect is, it turns the needle only 1-2 percent, depending on format. What makes them good is what Zach mentioned: they're functionally 5-colour lands, since there are dual-type lands in most formats. So a fetch that gets mountain (red) or plains (white) can get a red/white dual, but also any dual that touches red or white, so it can also get a black/white duel (so the red/white dual can fetch black almost as easily as it fetches red or white). They also provide a free shuffle effect, which can be relevant. They also put a land in your graveyard, if you're running cards that care about that. Some decks are even able to draw advantage out of the life payment. But mostly it's the fact that they can fetch for literal perfect mana every time.
@@tcgacademia Never thought about saccing one dual for another dual. That makes sense. But I assure you, landfall was one of my first decks, so I'm aware how powerful the much cheaper Fabled Passage and Evolving Wilds are.
But terraforming has been at 1 for a long time precisely because of how strong 3 copies would be... edit: oh I get it, I just looked them up. It feels more like they would function as toon table of contents with extra utility rather than terraforming though.
Amazing video, my dude, it is really fascinating to listen someone that comes from another game giving their thoughts about the game they don't play, trying to figure everything out. I wonder, how did you formulate the card list you are commenting on?
This was a super cool video. I'd love to see a collab with a Magic The Gathering player where you both show each other cards of varying qualities from both games and try and guess if they're good or not.
Dude, you have no idea, this video idea is incredible, and watching you parse out mtg effects and realize how busted something so innocuous as skullclamp is, is just amazing. PLEASE keep doing this!
The thing when judging MTG cards is that judging them in isolation isn't the best way to tell if a card is good or bad. The reason why carrion feeder is really good isn't the reason why you think. People don't use the sacrifice effect for the sake of combat. They use the sacrifice effect because it has no additional cost. I'm the commander format, synergy is key to making a good deck since decks are centered around a single legendary that you have access to at all times. There are some commanders that benefit from your creatures dying and they have the power to revive them from the grave. Carrion feeder is a combo piece, and a good one at that because it costs one mana. Especially how commander is a singleton format (only one copy of a card per deck), having cards with that effect is pretty busted. Hence why wizards have been adding additional costs for sacrifice effects to prevent the mechanic from getting abused.
To be 100% fair though, the combat potential and similar effects are absolutely parts of why they've been good historically. Like, Nantuko Husk was good for similar reasons many years ago
Just had a funny idea, theirs a series of anime cards from the 5ds for “turbo duels” that use a turn system to get counters to be able to play spells, which is somewhat like Magic’s system of being able to play cards
As someone who knows absolute JACK about YGO, and plays MTG a lot, this is fascinating. Thank u for this extremely informative video, I heavily enjoyed it. Would love to see a part 2 if it’s on the cards
To clear up some things. In the first place to define whether a card is good or not, you need to specify for which format you are evaluating it in because the power levels and available cards differ greatly. Mystic Remora is a strong card but it's not legal in most of the constructed competitive formats which is why it's known as a commander card. And no, it's not banned in commander. Platinum Angel really isn't that good anywhere because it costs a lot of mana and dies too easily to removal. He suggested using it to combo with cards that have you take damage which actually exists as a strong combo deck but it uses other cards which don't let you lose the game that turn. Other than that he nailed everything else.
I was really surprised, at first looked like "cave man evaluates technology", but, damn, you have killer instincts. Actually, you seem like a very good player. Respect
God I fucking hate "This is good in EDH!" players, especially around spoiler season "TOTALLY PUTTING THIS IN MY KAALIA DECK!" Don't get me wrong, EDH is a fun format. But holy shit it's probably the easiest format to solve out of any of the non-rotating formats. You get to play Mana Crypt, Demonic Tutor, Timetwister, Gaea's Cradle, and Mishra's Workshop. If you're looking at a card and it doesn't say "Draw 8 cards" for 2U, it's not "good in EDH" since it's competing with fucking Wheel of Fortune and Time Spiral.
The black mana is swamp, the blue is island, the green is forest, the red is mountain, and the whitw is plains. These are the 5 mana types in the game. Also enchantments are equal to field spells or contenous spell cards unless they are destroyed. Artifacts are bascially just like equip cards but when the monster is destroyed yhe artifact stays on the field until it gets destroyed. And the instanst spell is skmilar to the quick play spell in which you can use it durin either players durn during what ever phase if you have tge mana cost.
Shoutouts to the guy who put the most powerful and meme-defining card ever printed into the bottom right corner at the end, Colossal Dreadmaw "If you feel the ground quake, run. If you hear its bellow, flee. If you see its teeth, it's too late." The only card that could compete with Collosal Dreadmaw is probably the community designed, "Honest Taxpayer"/It That Embezzles.
I’ve always loved that all monsters have flavour text. I’m one of those people that actually care about card lore, and I wish Yugioh did the same (though, there would be no chance with how bloated the card text is for modern cards)
I remember the set of One with Nothing had an archetype that had payoffs with playing with fewer cards in hands than the opponent. Also I can imagine it having a sort of use in reanimator decks, discarding bombs into graveyard, but of course you don’t want to discard the entire hand so I guess it’s still bad! Ahah
*reading platinum angel* DuelLogs: “It seems like a combo tool where you bring it out and do a bunch of degenerate shit so you can’t lose…” Me (a magic player): PFFFT LOL YEP THATS RIGHT
I had a b/w deck that was just meant to be super trolly. Used multiple platinum angel style effects. Entire game plan was to get one of them on board alongside something i could pay life into, pay all my life then use soul conduit to swap life totals. It was b/w for reanimate effects and so i could use phyrexian unlife and other pseudo platinum angels. That said, i would absolutely never use platinum angel in any remotely serious deck.
It's interesting to see the difference in the mindset between the different games. Like the fact the focus on the lack of 1/turn restriction for Carrion Feeder instead of the lack of a cost, or considering the ability a combat trick instead of a sac outlet. And considering their worth as an absolute instead of related to the formats (Platinum Angel isn't much now, but in standard would be possibly decent and great in limited). It's not to criticize or anything, it makes sense, it's just interesting to watch.
It was definitely neat that carrion feeder's "sac anything as many times as you want whenever you want" is quite good in both games, but the approach to figure out why it's good is different (not 1/turn, no mana cost).
This was a fun watch as a long time Magic player (and more recent YGO player), but I have to question what experience some of the apparent Magic players in the chat have, and the subjective nature of some of these people calling certain cards good or bad. Like, calling Platinum Angel a bad card? Sure, if you're talking about it in a vacuum, but you don't evaluate cards like that. For me, as someone with dozens of commander decks of every archetype, Platinum Angel can allow you to do absolutely busted things with the right other cards (Final Fortune on an Iscochron Sceptre with Angel out = infinite extra turns for me, no this isn't that wild I've done it multiple times in my Osgir deck).
I thinking most people are evaluating these cards in the context of 60 card formats, since commander is a causal format and therefore the meta is heavily dependent on your play group. I feel like saying something is good with a specific commander is like saying that a card was great in one of Hardleg’s what a deck runs.
@@MineNick11 If that were true I'd question the evaluation of the value pieces like Ramora or Clamp, which are either banned or have become too slow in formats outside of commander, but I see what you mean, these are just my points as a long time player in multiple formats. I don't feel like that 2nd comparison is totally fair; I may have used 1 of my decks as an example, but I can think of at least 4 of my decks off the top of my head that while I don't need it, Platinum Angel would still be a useful card in. Also, between my multiple player groups and everything I've ever read online, I don't recall the last time I've seen/heard someone call Platinum Angel bad (maybe not the most powerful thing ever, but never just "it's bad").
This was hella entertaining as a seasoned MTG player. Im not new to Yu-Gi-Oh but definitely don't know a lot of cards. I'd love see another one of these vids
Flavor text in mtg is indeed cool, it often describes the underlying storyline of that release cycle. The absolutely random creatures and cards in yugioh has prevented me from playing yugioh, and I stick to mtg.
The thing about mystic remora is that it has cumulative upkeep, not just upkeep. An upkeep cost is something that gets paid at the start of every turn, but a cumulative upkeep is more complex. Every time your turn starts, you put an “age” counter on the card, then pay the upkeep cost for each age counter on it. So the first turn it cost 1 to keep, then on your next turn you need to pay 2, then 3, then 4, etc. If you ever choose not to pay or just can’t, you have to sacrifice it. So if you just wait a couple turns of just playing creatures before playing your other spells, they sink a lot of mana into a card that doesn’t draw them a lot. A good benchmark for measuring the effectiveness/efficiency of draw spells is divination. 3 mana gets you 2 cards at sorcery speed (only on your turn while the stack is empty) so if your opponent only plays creatures for 2 turns, you spend 2 mana and drew 0 cards. As a lasting effect for a few turns it’s powerful but a lot of times you dump a lot of mana for a few cards. Unless your opponent is playing a ridiculous amount of low cost noncreature spells, you’re probably only going to get a few cards before the tax gets too high and you can’t afford to keep paying it. Every time you pay the upkeep cost that’s a chunk of your mana that isn’t being used to play the cards you just drew. So realistically you usually only keep it around for 3 or 4 turns which probably won’t even get you 5 cards max. At a total cost of 7 or 11 mana for 5 cards. Remember the benchmark says pay 3 to draw 2, so draw 4 shouldn’t cost more than 6 mana, and draw 6 shouldn’t cost more than 9 mana. But here we are paying more than 9 mana to draw less than 6 cards… So while it’s definitely on the strong side, it probably doesn’t get a ridiculous value unless you’re playing against a highly competitive deck which runs a lot of low cost noncreature spells… probably the main reason it’s banned is if you have multiple copies out at once, and your opponent casting a single spell can give you a huge card advantage
You're on the right track with Platinum Angel but basically these days it's an extremely tame effect for how much it costs, even in terms of things you can cheat out with degenerate combos. Some other artifacts that you could cheat out in the same way as you could the angel would be cards like Sundering Titan, Blightsteel Colossus, Wurmcoil Engine, Triplicate Titan, or Myr Battlesphere. Most of them have backbreaking effects and they actually make progress towards winning the game if not just win on the spot, instead of just not losing with the Angel, and even then the Angel is a simple removal spell away from being useless.
This was awesome! I don’t know anything about yogi oh, I’ve been playing magic for decades and this was really neat to see! I wanna see a pro magic player that’s never played yogi oh do the same!
Listening to Yu-Gi-Oh player terminology applied to magic cards seems so wild. Your card evaluation is so on point man! As far as platinum angel goes, there are absolutely combos with it that will win you the game for sure, but there are so many other more mana(Land) efficient ways to get the same outcome that it's never really played.
It's interesting how universal the concept of card advantage seems to be. Even in very simplistic games like cards, the universe, and everything, where you just always draw to five cards, I find myself constantly reminding myself to thin my hand whenever possible to burn through my deck faster.
We need more of this content. Also the catch (it's funny, cause remora is a fish) of Mystic remora is that you have to pay 1 more each turn. 1 mana the first turn it is in play, 2 mana the second turn it is in play etc.
prime content 👌 I'd love if you did another ep of this but with a magic player to talk about the cards and pick out interesting ones, like I'd love to see you evaluate lurrus
One with Nothing: Famously bad card. Next to no situations where it’s isn’t a downside, and even fewer where a different card would be better. Saw some play in a specific metagame, but even then it was considered a dubious pick. Carrion Feeder: Very powerful. One of the best creatures at that mana cost exactly for the reasons described. Mystic Remora: A powerful and unique card that can be, but isn’t always, incredibly effective. Seen in Vintage, a format where extremely powerful and cheap artifact cards (think Black Lotus) are cast early on, as well as in multiplayer formats. Otherwise, the cumulative upkeep makes it hard to actually cast all the cards you’re drawing - if you end up drawing any with it at all. Timothar, King of Bats: A fun card designed for casual play, and mana costed to keep it that way. Better options are available. Platinum Angel: Not a bad card, but tricky to utilize in a competitive environment. Sometimes used as an edge-case option in decks looking to directly put powerful artifacts or creatures into play. Skullclamp: Incredibly powerful. Banned in multiple formats and often cited as a failure in balancing.
As someone who knows MTG much better than YGO this is amazing, it is like the CCG equivalent of watching an archeologist stumble around a series of ruins and trying to figure out "based on this building's central location and wide backed tables it is most likely some manner of tavern or church..."
It's like watching an alien scientist pour over my living room trying to understand the concept of a couch.
Well said good sir.
The pay mana=discard assumption on Mystic Remora was something I was not expecting
Edit for clarity
@@atevalve Mtg discards to a zone where there are a ton of ways, and it's Black's specialty, to get them in play cheaper than their casting cost.
@@jhannigan210 I mean the assumption that the 1 cumulative upkeep on Mystic Remora was discarding and not generic mana was kinda funny and not something I've seen someone make before. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm actually a Magic player (Modern and Legacy mostly) not a Yu-Gi-Oh player ^^
I love how a non-player of MTG spent something like a minute looking at Skullclamp and realized it's absolutely broken, yet the designers were so incredibly shocked that the card nearly killed the met it was first printed in.
@S V Yeah, it isn't like there were also issues with Kikki. Or Charrbelcher. Or Felidar. Or Nexus. Or Fires. Or Lurrus. Sadly, they don't learn.
Iirc the story with skullclamp was like this: Originally it was planned as a +1/+1 effect, but they changed it to +1/-1 last-minute because they thought it was too good and shipped it without testing.
Turns out if the draw engine can kill the creatures itself, it's pretty good. Who knew?
They also shipped it and immedietely realized it was broken but literally could not do anything about it, so they just sat there for months, waiting for release, knowing the card was absolutely busted.
@S V If you believe Oko was a last-minute change, I've got a bridge to sell you. The reason they "keep making the same mistake" is that it is a convenient excuse with a strong precedent that takes the heat off them for pushing the power level to sell cards. We know that since Shadows over Innistrad, they've been egregiously dosing up chase mythics with extra card draw, cost reduction, inevitability, value on cast or entry, and keyword soup to keep people cracking packs. At least 2004 Wizards had the decency to ban Skullclamp in the quarter it was released, as opposed to waiting until they cleared out the booster boxes and locked in their profits.
@S V There was an article discussing Emrakul 2.0 after her banning, in which they admitted that pressure from above to craft something that would definitely see tournament play factored into the development of the card.
It isn't conspiratorial to notice that problematic cards and decks seem to last juuuuuust long enough to get another set or two out before Wizards suddenly notice the degenerate format they've created. Even if it was a conspiracy, consider that a small environment like Magic is the perfect place for a conspiracy. This isn't a vast network of independent actors. it's a single company which controls all aspects of the game besides the secondary market, and even then they still have great sway.
As someone who is deeply steeped in both card games, I want to see all content creators from both fandoms try this
I wonder what would happen for mbt and hardleg as both of them I believe have experience with magic.
Same
I would like to see that too, but I feel like it's easier to go mtg card/yugituber than the inverse, as I feel there are more rules you need to know just to understand what the card does in ygo than mtg.
@@U1TR4F0RCE MBT has obviously never touched magic before. I mean with a name like Mono Blue Tron? Nahhhhh
@@GroundThing Speaking as someone who learned how to read ygo cards recently, there actually aren't too many cases where not knowing exact rules makes reading cards difficult/impossible. So long as the mtg ytber takes a few minutes to learn PSCT before attempting this, they shouldn't have too much trouble understanding what most cards do.
seems like I need to look at some YGO cards.
Grass is Greener on the other side, scapegoat, accumulated fortune, just normal monsters, ojamagic, lots of cool designs in YGO!
Lol nooooo
yesssssss
What does Pot of Greed do?
To all the Yu-Gi-Oh players in the comments seeing this, it's likely that the "video about One With Nothing" mentioned is the one Rhystic Studies made. It's a very good video, as is everything else on the channel.
One with nothing: awful
Carrion feeder: really good
Mystic remora: oppressively good in multiple formats
Timothar: ok
Platinum angel: used to be really good. Now fine
Skullclamp: I don't have the time to tell you how much this card's existence is a mistake. Think ratpier levels of "what the fuck did you do to the game"
Yep pretty much this. Great summary
Skullclamp: A self admitted design oversight by WotC lol
One with nothing would be pretty sick in a R/B Madness deck, but you're not ready for that conversation.
@@dariusrobotson6872 Also Hive Mind jank strategy
@@dariusrobotson6872 its not tho. Even madness don't want this effect, especially since they have better ways to discard whatever they want
I appreciate how your evaluation of Platinum Angel was 'play it and then do something degenerate.' A lot of people's first instinct is to play it and just sit on it forever, never losing. The fact that you evaluated it as a way to win, rather than as a way to not lose is really neat, and shows there are definitely some skills that transfer from game to game.
I use Platinum angel then mill everyone out.
My only modern deck that used platinum angel was a crappy but VERY degenerate azorious control deck (white blue) that NEEDED plat angel to survive or make things worse. It won me 2 games. One against a zombie mill deck cause no removal left in the deck and once using my nasty combo involving plat, omniscience and tamiyo to effectively use any instant spell infinitely. Deck had 4 counters and 4 safe passage as well as 2 og Avacyns, world eater, world Slayer, karn liberated, lab maniac, blinding angel... it was atrocious. Slow... but atrocious.
@@joehadari7315 I used it to cheat out my Phage commander, to be able to cast her without losing the game and once she's on the battlefield I don't give a fuck what happens to plat, I just want to one shot every mf
Honestly seemed like his evaluation of it was more correct than the chat. 7 is a lot of mana, but the formats where this card is legal have a plethora of way to get that amount of mana fast, and he's exactly correct that it's an enabler for degenerate things.
However, there's some context he was missing. First is that the two easiest types of cards to deal with in the game are artifacts and creatures, so the angel being both makes it extremely easy to answer. Second is that it's been mostly superceded by Platinum Empyrion, which has the almost as good line of text "your life total can't change", but on a much more reasonable cost to body rate. Plus, some of the degen stuff you can do with the angel are actually better with the empyrion, since you don't immediately lose if the empyrion leaves the battlefield.
@@fwg1994 exactly what I thought. His chat has no idea what they're talking about. It's definitely not a great card but it's definitely not bad either
Something chat didn't communicate well with Cumulative Upkeep: The upkeep cost increases each turn. The actual text reads: "During your upkeep, put an age counter on it, then sacrifice it unless you pay it's upkeep cost for each age counter on it." So if Mystic Remora has been out there for 3 turns, you need to pay 3 mana, not 1.
A good way to compare it to Yugioh would be is if imperial order had cumulative upkeep, it would cost 700, then 1400, then 2100, and so on, during each standby phase.
Also, in Magic the standby phase is before the draw phase
So, it's Dark Snake Syndrome but as a cost
@@outtaideas849 Not quite, it still only ticks up by the original ammount. It would be like if Dark Snake Syndrome ticked up by 200 each turn.
tbf quite a few people were saying it in chat, but it's a difficult clarification to convey in 3 seconds before the message gets scrolled away
Only time l've seen the card used has been in EDH/Commander format, specifically with commanders that could re-call it back from the graveyard making it really good (on top of having more than 1 opponent for potentially more noncreature casts)
Skullclamp: exists
YGO player not fully familiar with magic: this sounds busted!
MTG players who know: it is! We're not sure how R&D missed how busted it was. Rather famously the card used to give +1/+1, before it was "nerfed" to +1/-1 right before it was sent to the printers.
And then it became one of the best cards ever printed, ever.
A card that wants your creatures to die was nerfed so it can kill your creatures without aid? That's it, solid proof aliens exist, because clearly they were smoking something beyond what exists on this planet.
@@_Vengeance_ To be fair, it sounds like a design oversight.
It’s not like Thassa’s Oracle, where multiple designers knew it was stupid but the moron who made it refused to change it.
@@cephalosjr.1835 SERIOUSLY ??? I didn't knew that.
Maybe it should have been -1/+1
Edit, or 0/+1
@@_Vengeance_ they didn't think people would use it that way, they thought people would put it on a big creature you where going to attack with to give you some value if it dies to disincentivise your opponent from killing it so it was designed to be really weak protection on a big beater.
When One With Nothing was in print, there was a deck that forced everyone to draw multiple cards, prevent them from casting more than one spell a turn, then punishes opponents for having too many cards in hand.
One With Nothing was a sideboard card used against that deck and was rather effective. Outside of that context it's pure garbage.
One place I could see it used is in Madness based decks as a cheap discard mechanic, but even there it still isn't very good unless you're into the mid to late game and have the mana to madness multiple things at once.
For those who don't know Madness is a triggered mechanic that lets you pay the Madness cost to activate the card when it gets discarded from your hand. Madness cards either cost a lot less if you play them for the Madness cost or get some kind of additional effect from using it but this is balanced by usually costing a bit more than equivalent effects if you don't use Madness to cast them, so it incentivises having a discard engine in your deck to get the most from madness triggers.
@@owenwells7692 Putrid Imp existed when One With Nothing was made, and is vastly better at this.
Good old sideboard One With Nothing for the Owling Mine matchup lmfaoooo
i run it in a dredge deck, its situationally useful, really good in the right circumstances, would probably work with madness as well
The problem I saw was he compared the card to Maxx C rather than Shared Ride (which it is closer to).
Maxx C is good because it's a handtrap, and because lots of Yu-Gi-Oh decks have to summon many times per turn; that doesn't really apply so much here.
In magic card advantage and tempo are much more separated than in yugioh, that is why cards who have really good effects but cost a lot of mana may be "bad" cards.
Well, cards with good effects with a steep cost (or summoning conditions) are bad in Yu-Gi-Oh too, it's just much harder to evaluate the cost when you don't know the game.
There are plenty of cards in Yu-Gi-Oh which literally have "you win the duel" printed on them, that no-one plays because the condition is too difficult to furfil right now.
@@IamGrimalkin that can be said for cards in Magic as well. There are some cards that have "you win the game" printed on them. Yet, the condition is typically hard as hell to meet, and cards that have a "lesser" effect see a lot of play because they win you the game in a much easier fashion, usually through a combo.
For instance, one card called Torment of Hailfire is often used with combos that generate infinite mana (the resource you use to play cards). Well, it's quite simple to set up an infinite mana loop, then play Torment, which essentially damages your opponents until they lose or at least drains their resources to a point where they can't have any chance of coming back and beating you, forcing a scoop.
Then there is a card called Biovisionary that reads "at the beginning of your end step, if you control 4 or more cards called Biovisionary, you win the game." Basically, it reads right before you end your turn, check to see if you have 4 or more copies of this card on your side of the playing field. If you do, you win. Well, honestly, I've been playing since the card released about a decade ago and I have never once seen it played. There are even creatures (monsters) that make it easier to win with the card because they come out as an exact copy of that card, yet it still sees little to no play. I personally think it's a sign of good balance when a card literally reads "you win" but people only play it in fringe cases or not at all because the cost to win is far too great.
@@Eric_The_Cleric
Well, I'd say that in an ideally balanced game every card would be played, otherwise what's the point of printing them?
That said, win condition cards are often either taken from the anime or were intended as meme cards; so the intention was never for them to be played in the first place.
@@IamGrimalkin fair enough.
@@IamGrimalkin Depends. There exist different formats in Magic, so not all cards are meant for all formats. And some cards are meant to be janky combos, intentionally not put at an oppressive powerlevel. Some cards exist for flavor more than power, etc. So I'd disagree, ideally not all cards have the same competitive viability.
I was pretty surprised how well they evaluated carrion feeder. It is indeed a very good card! In addition, the fact that the sacrifice is a cost, not an effect means that it happens immediadly as you declare it. You can for example sacrifice a thing your opponent is trying to steal from you and they literally can't do anything about it.
Not to mention that just being able to kill your own creatures for free at instant speed is itself a huge advantage in the right deck. Lots of cards either benefit from dying or from other things dying, through life drain for instance. In an aristocrats deck, playing a Carrion Feeder at the right time can give you the game through mass sacrifice triggers.
Not true. Conceding the game is an action that doesn't require priority OR use the stack. The first part of using an ability is declaring it's use, followed by naming targets, THEN paying costs, ergo your opponent can respond by scooping.
@@ccggenius
Does Magic have a victory dragon-like card where this actually matters?
Not to mention it’s use in combo decks like protean hulk
@@IamGrimalkin thankfully no lol
watching him realize that skullclamp is one of the most powerful cards of all time is hilarious. "hold on, so you can kill all your creatures and draw a whole bunch of cards?" yessir it's lots of fun
Something that was missed about Carrion Feeder : it's a free sac outlet. There are a ton of decks that care about death triggers, either having creatures that do things when they die or having cards that do stuff when another creature die, or using reanimation as a way to get "enters the battlefield" effects multiple time. Hence why it's really good, but not busted : on its own it doesn't do much (there are way better sac outlets out there), but it's still a free sac outlet on legs that only cost 1 mana.
I used to have a 5 drop zombie that destroyed a land on enter and on death. I'd use death bomb to sacrifice him in order to kill one of their creatures, take 2 of their lands doing it, then cheat him from the grave (he's a ZOMBIE) and do it all over again.
Great way to mana starve the opponent
@@chrismanuel9768 My main commander deck wins by playing a creature that, on death, deals 2 damage to any target, sacrificing it and resurrecting it a hundred time to kill everyone. In MTG, death is just another part of life !
It’s also that it becomes a threat on its own if you ignore it, every time you try to kill another creature, it instead becomes a +1/+1 for carrion feeder. If that happens too much, you’re staring down a bigger and bigger beater you’re not going to be able to ignore for much longer
Aristocraaaats boiiiiiii
Arguably the fact that it's on legs is the part I like the least about it lol, I'd bet if they made an artifact that was cost 1 and had the ability "(0): Sacrifice a creature", it would see play
Me, an MtG and YGO player: oh this is gonna be hilarious
Watching someone stumble around on things I think are common knowledge is really funny. Though magic does have some weird rules
Same
Same
Indeed 😅
Dude seriously that's exactly what I thought when I saw the thumbnail, I don't think I've ever clicked on a video this fast 😂
Skullclamp is the perfect example of Rule 12 of the Evil Overlord List: "One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation."
If someone not even versed in the rules of the game can identify just how broken a card is, it should never see the light of day.
That is….actually a good idea.
Conversely it seems like a really fun card to play casually. So print it, and then ban it from competitive. That way people can have fun playing broken decks but it doesn't completely ruin competitive.
@@jacobockman709 The thing is, there's even a discussion to ban it in the most played casual format "Commander". So far it has survived, but it's always a must-kill target and not really fun to play against. Even if you have a solution during your turn, it is often already to late bc the other player will have drawn 4-8 cards already.
At which point either the whole table turns towards them or they win. Most often they just win.
One reason it's kept in is because white and red-white commander decks famously suck at drawing cards, but do equipment & tokens very well and this is virtually their only good drawing tool.
Well, not being versed in the rules of MtG *specifically* doesn't mean he doesn't get the ebb and flow of TCGs in general. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that skullclamp gives way more than it costs, but understanding the concept of value in a TCG is still a requirement.
Which means most designers probably now this and do it anyway to sell packs regardless of what they say as far as “we’re shocked it’s broken”
Very spot on analysis overall! At the end of the day MTG is mostly about trading resources, and +1 and -1 advantage are usually still the most important things in the game at the end off the day. Doing some more of these in the future would be fun!
The main thing to keep in mind with cards like Timothar and Platinum Angel though, is that high cost cards who don't have an immediate impact on the board state are generally bad. Many decks never even play 6+ cost creatures unless the deck is around turboing them out and they are immediately game ending. Timothar and Platinum Angel both need to sit on the board for many turns for you to gain notable andvantage, and both are fragile by themselves. For examples of good 6+ cost monsters for comparison, see the Titan cycle (Primeval, Grave, Inferno, Sun and Frost). Each one had good stats, a good passive ability and gained you some advantage both on summon and on attack. They demanded answers due to their power and persistent value, but even if sniped they already got you some value on arrival. While eventually they became a bit dated, they remained premier top end creatures for many formats.
One with nothing: Terrible. Not much support for no cards in hand. Usually nothing you can do that's game ending with no cards in hand that is enabled by it.
Carrion feeder: Good sacrifice outlet. Some cards gain benefits from being sacrificed, going to the graveyard or having other cards go to the graveyard or be sacrificed. Or sometimes you get tokens for free/cheap who you can fodder. Having a cheap way to facilitate those while also gaining some benefit is good. You can also fodder off something about to die from a kill spell or combat or whatever too. Only downside is it's low base stats (so it can be sniped by damage effects and can't safely attack without getting some sacrifices first) and once it becomes a stat stick it can't protect you.
Mystic Remora: Excellent card. Costs increasing amounts to keep around each turn, but draws you a lot of cards eventually. Even creature spam decks run a fair amount of noncreature spells for support and utility. By the time you can't afford it's upkeep any more, it should have drawn you a lot or forced the enemy to burn removal on it. Even if removed, it should at least be a +1. The tax is way too high to usually bother with to prevent draws. It is an old card, so by default it is banned in all but ancient formats that allow all the broken cards, so it doesn't see that much use simply because older formats have even more broken cards.
Timothar: Basically an bad vampire deck boss monster. At 6 he's fairly expensive since Black does not have good ways to get expensive creatures out early. It's stats are below average for the cost and he has no battle abilities himself. His ward effect means if he gets sniped by a spell, it's going to be a -1 for the opponent usually, but it won't stop a determined opponent from sniping him. He then gains you persistent value if you have other vampires on the field. The bats can be sniped by pinging them with low damage, but just free 1/1s all the time isn't terrible even just as a resource. He can be good if the game goes long and you can maintain your board until he comes out. But he's not someone who will immediately swing the game in your favor without setup nor solo the opponent himself. He's meant for a kind of slower format, but even there he seems a bit slow and fragile.
Platinum Angel: Hilarious card, but impractical. Expensive to deploy and doesn't really progress your side at all. Most decks have ways to get rid of a creature, so it will ultimately only buy you a bit of time until it's sniped unless you have a lot of tools to protect it. With it's high cost it will be hard to both summon it and then protect it in the same turn, and most all protection has ways around it (target protection can be bypassed by all target spells, destruction protection can be bypassed by banishing and stat drain, etc...).
Scullclamp: one of the most broken cards in the game ever. It turns 1 health creatures into pots of greed for the lowest cost possible in the game besides free. If you can make a steady stream of 1 hp tokens or fodder, you get endless card draw. Anything that gives consistent card advantage in MTG is super broken. Anything that can give you a lot of card advantage in one turn is also super broken. This can do both.
There's a reason my artefact spam Commander deck has skullclamp on the wishlist. Draw one on summon, -6 cost to summon and draw 2 with skullclamp... throw in the infinite mana combo that is +3 mana on tap, and -2 mana to untap any card on a non once per turn, and when it gets going it's unstoppable.
@@evanolsen6925 Nice! Yeah, commander is a nice place to have fun with infinite combos.
It's closer to old Yu Gi Oh in theory, to a degree. Yu Gi Oh never had a resource mechanic outside of the normal summon limit and cards drawn, but back then card advantage was king. Magic is a lot like that -- trading resources for advantage in lower power formats. High power formats cheat the resource system a lot to do overpowered things quickly, like modern yugioh.
Ok, just have to drop in to take mild offense to "Black does not have good ways to get expensive creatures out early" - it's literally the reanimator color. What's more important is that there's not any formats where reanimation is cheap where you can't just find something better to summon instead, lol. Much like YGO in that regard I suppose in that there's a ton of monsters you could theoretically build your deck around getting out but if it doesn't swing the board on its own its kinda do nothing.
The interesting thing about Platinum Angel is that the effect is actually very good in the exact way TheDuelLogs suspected it could be, but people don't play it with Plat Angel, they just play Angel's Grace to get it at 1 mana so they can combo off with Ad Nauseum in Modern. Or, well, I guess they used to, I haven't seen that deck in a while.
The funny thing is that... I wouldn't /really/ say you can simply turn it into "whatever gives consistent card advantage in MTG is super broken", because in MTG card advantage is much easier to get than in YGO. The trick is doing something with those cards is harder. What Skullclamp does is, as you say, it trades at an INSANE RATE. You can draw theoretically infinite cards with something like Blue Sun's Zenith at the rate of one mana per card, or draw a card per turn quite consistently with Phyrexian Arena, but those effects aren't so strong as to be totally broken on their own. It's the fact that cards like Dark Confidant are so cheap that makes them actually good.
Black: has like 60 different ritual effects
I'm so far removed from YGO and so familiar with MTG that even something like "Wait, there are creature spells?" is something that I wouldn't even really think about now. It's engrained into me that everything not a land is a spell.
Would love more content like this.
I only play Magic, I've never even glanced at the rules in YGO before. I must say it's almost surreal coming in at this angle, it shows how much I take for granted my knowledge of the rules and mechanics in MTG. I actually think I would have a similarly difficult time trying to understand a Yu-Gi-Oh card, and I find that fascinating. Maybe give Magic a try sometime, and maybe I'll try Yu-Gi-Oh!
I’ve only dabbled in Magic, but I think they’re sorta opposites in that regard. Magic’s rules and fundamentals are easy to learn, but the nuances and strategies are harder since from what I understand, it is a much more resource and strategy-oriented game. With Yugioh, there’s a lot of rulings and interactions that don’t make much sense or are not very obvious (like how chains work), but once you have the rules down, there’s not much nuances outside of knowing the meta game and what defines a good card.
@@cubeshot5737 yeah, there's a good chance when you are playing against a deck you haven't played against before that at some point you'll need to either ask a judge how some card of yours interact with a card of the opponent/opponents or just Google and pray someone else has had that same problem. And I honestly love that. It keeps the game interesting and different, even after years of playing it.
@@simranvl115 Freaking doubling season and planeswalkers work weird as hell
@@simranvl115 yeah I play mostly commander in Magic and sometimes trying to figure out how some of the old cards actually work alone after so many rules changes alone can be a challenge and that’s before adding in any interactions with cards that don’t have older or newer cards in mind. Like Aaron pointed out doubling season and planeswalkers, doubling season affects their entering tokens but not their abilities uses because one is an effect and the other is a cost.
I honestly wouldn't encourage you to try out Yugioh. All my Yugioh friends agree it's a broken game.
I've only dabbled in MtG, but something to note about Timothar: yes the bats have to survive for a turn, but it's harder to remove a weak monster in MtG compared to Yugioh, since players cannot target creatures for attacks; players can only target players/planeswalkers for attacks, and their opponent must choose to block those attacks in order for a creature to die.
There _are_ removal/damage spells of course, and there _are_ sorceries/instants/etc. that force fights between monsters, but you can't just run over a bat with any old beatstick like you would for a Barrier Statue or a Herald of the Arc Light.
That being said, Timothar seems pretty mid at best. If you're spending 6 mana on one dude, generally speaking, you want that creature to be able to win the game outright (I think).
Yeah, Timothar's problem is that it provides interestingly long-term value, but it's not a card that you can get onto the board early. If Timothar's effect was a 1 mana enchantment, or even if Timothar was a 1 mana 1/1, it'd be a very different story... but as it is he's just a terrible thing to try to end the game on. It's honestly fairly comparable to something like a two-tribute monster - would /you/ spend two tributes on a monster with "When a monster you control is destroyed and sent to the graveyard, banish it, create a 100/100 token, and you can resummon it if that token deals battle damage to the opponent also the token can't attack the turn it's summoned"
He’s good in commander for long term value but nigh unplayable in standard
@@TheDJCharmander He is literally unplayable in standard because he's a commander pre-con card and not legal in anything but commander, vintage and legacy.
@@paulsalz4491 I mean, there's Brawl... Do any stores still support Brawl?
Both Luminous broodmoth and Nightmare shepard were recent cards with similar effects that costed less, aren't legendaries, had no associated mana cost for the triggered ability, and were much less conditional with their protection. Heck, you have to attack with the bloody token that already cost you mana to even get your vampire back... Even Hofri Ghostforge, which is in current standard and wasn't printed in a commander product like the baron, does the reanimation when killed better than him while costing one less mana and offering an useful static ability!
I LOVED you and chat swapping all the terms, keywords, and effects from magic into YuGiOh terms. Haha. The fact that upkeep and standby phase are the same never clicked in my brain till just then. Wonderful video I hope it becomes a series and catches on with others!
I don't play YGO but I'm really impressed with your card evaluation here! You were pretty much spot on across the board, good job! This makes me want to try the same thing but with YGO cards now
This is really cool that you did this. Magic is a fun game, my friends taught me the game and I taught them yugioh and we all like them both. Pokémon next?
Yes but Pokémon was much deference mechanic. Is more simble to understand but is much deference.
Here we have card discard 2 card and draw 6, and almost no one play this! Is common use descard your hand and draw 7.
In Pokémon the draw engine mean nothing. I mean is powfull but you can always attack ones every turn anyway.
All supporters are shared hard once per turn so you cannot use different supporter cards after you use one. He probably gonna think card like Hau is good because it lets you draw 3 but then Lillie, Cynthia, Professor Research outshine him in drawpower.
Also since in Pokemon after battle is end of a turn, he would also probably think Charizard & Braixen GX is broken because you can search any 3 cards after dealing 180 dmg, but it is just an okay card and nowhere as strong as the meta pokemon of that format back then (fucking ADP).
So yeah, definitely looking forward for his reaction towards pokemon cards.
This was honestly fun. Would be interesting to see more or with other games.
My knowledge of magic is similar to yours. This felt like watching the price is right and that show has been on air forever. Amazing.
As a magic player who knows the lore and a few fun stories, I know that Mystic Remora has an art mistake. The name Remora means a hindrance, but it’s also the name of a fish type. The artist didn’t know that, and didn’t know it was an enchantment
why is it an art mistake? it honestly seems entirely in keeping with mtg canon that MR summons a literal aetherial fish that attaches itself to your opponent's connection to the planes or whatever and siphons off energy for your use
@@cirnet because it's not a creature spell, it's an enchantment
Flavor still a win though
& cumulative upkeep increases every turn! you're not going to pay only (1) every turn... still a good card!
@@ossi2635 I remember when it came out in ice age. We all thought it was useless. In hindsight it slows down the opponent and gives you extra cards.
Cumulative upkeep increases per turn after the permanent (a card that sticks on the battlefield) stays on the battlefield. So if it's turn 3 and you had Mystic Remora since turn 1, you pay 2 mana at the start of the upkeep step (which is something like the standby phase). You're basically cutting yourself on mana (which is crucial to cast most spells) for card advantage.
EDIT: Also, something to add is that the discard of One With Nothing IS THE EFFECT. The COST is the 1 black mana.
Yea, and very important thing that he missed is that in magic you have to pay for cards to play them yes, remora is a busted card draw engine, but its crippling tax stops you from ant board development, which is not good. So yea, this card is complicated, and in a good way.
Yeah, remora is terrible, the stream was just filled with commander players apprently
@@danielwappner1035 commander is a big format with a lot of history, the video would suck if it's just standard cards. But also they didn't choose any really good cards for the video and if they did chat was there to convince him that they have the right answer because mtg is only fun if you win to most people that play the game
@@aidantaylor3324 mystic remora is terrible outside of edh. It hasnt been in standard for 20 years. I'm not sure why do you think I'd rather have them talk about standard. It's just that the stream chat was giving only edh opinions and that is, uhm, not great
@@danielwappner1035 mystic remora sees some vintage play
I watched the entire stream, but I LOVE this format. Sometimes I don't have time to watch hours of a stream and I prefer bite-sized edits if I have to choose one. Highly support if you want to keep this a consistent thing.
The reason why platinum angel doesn’t see play, is because it’s too expensive to play fairly, and if you want to use it as a combo tool, you’re better off using angels grace, which is a 1 mana spell speed 4 instant (so basically handtrap) that says you can’t lose, your opponents can’t win, and damage can’t reduce your life below 1 for the rest of the turn
Also the effect itself is kinda pointless; it's only useful if you're already losing, and it doesn't actually do anything to change the fact that you're losing. It's only good to stall until you pull out your big combo to flip the situation, or as part of a combo that would win the game but would also kill you.
Nice defensive thing, but ideally you don't want to *need* it.
Platinum Angel is also an artifact creature, making her weak against a ton of removal. Green and White easily destroy artifacts, Black and Blue can destroy/bounce creatures. Red hoses both artifacts and creatures.
Hardly any deck uses Angel "defensively". You cheat it into play from grave or with tinker then either make it impossible to remove, ad nauseum your whole deck to hand or "final fortune+Isochron scepter" loop for infinite turns. Once you have those online you can kill by knocking yourself to 0 and playing swap life effects.
It's not the best card ever, but you're undervaluing it. It's a commander staple for a reason.
nah, facebook combo all you need. it costs less of your sanity
@@Bladius_ it used to be in a pretty decent modern deck that cheated it out, but it was swapped for platinum emperion for a reason
Finally got around to watching this.
I was the one that submitted skull clamp :3 really happy it made it in
Congrats
Like in Yu-Gi-Oh, cards being "good" or "bad" becomes subjective to time. You'll always see a new card get printed that suddenly breaks an older card. It's just in the nature of a long lasting TCG franchise to have "combos" and "synergies" to become overlooked as new designers and directors come and go.
It is incredible though that Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG have enough overlap that I feel that anyone who plays one game can transition to the other given a bit of practice and would appreciate the familiarities but also the differences. When I transitioned to MTG, I was amazed that there was no limit to the board size and that actual "infinite" combos were always a possibility.
MTG offers one format that is probably what keeps me in and that's Commander; a 4-Player format where you play against 3 other opponents and either work with them or become the arch-enemy. Yu-Gi-Oh can't really support that kind of multi-player from when I played since the player going last would always be at the most disadvantage given how MTG has a resource system and Yu-Gi-Oh's main restrictions was the Normal summoning.
very true. the mystic remora was seen as junk for like 15 years until multiplayer formats got popular. 1v1 it will draw you 1 or two cards if you're lucky before the cumulative cost gets to be too much (it adds 1 each turn) but in a format like commander it will likely draw you at least 3 cards before you even have to pay the first time.
I look forward to the day Wood Elemental becomes broken.
@@ccggenius maybe some kind of omnath or Oro deck with nissa ulting, tutoring for all your lands. vaguely playable, but still not broken, lol
This was phenomenal. I love this idea. More of these please! Also maybe a collab with an MTG streamer and then you guys do the inverse?
I loved this. Hoping to see more of this. Maybe with a Magic player in chat and taking turns with each trying to figure out cards from each other’s game.
As a magic player who has been playing for almost 20 years, here's what i would say to give my assessment. All in all you did pretty well.
One with nothing: not completely worthless. Like most cards you can build around it to capitalize (i used to run it in a casual madness/hellbent deck that would use paradox haze and panoptic mirror to cast this and wheel of fortune to potentially get up to 14 madness spells on upkeep. It didnt work often but it was always a rush when it did.)
Carrion feeder: important note, it doesnt lose the +1/+1 at end of turn. They're counters so they stick around unless removed or carrion feeder leaves the battlefield.
Mystic Remora: Cumulative upkeep is... Well... Cumulative. It increases at the beginning of each of your turns. Basically you have to pay the upkeep for each turn it has been in play. So turn after you play it, 1. Next turn, 2. Turn after that, 3 etc. It adds up really quickly, especially when its taking away from your ability to add to the board. Ive never seen one stick around longer than 4 turns. That said, the amount of cards you can draw off it in those turns can be insane.
Platinum Angel: too slow, too easy to remove, huge target, low stat line, can very easily cost you the game. All it takes is for you to let your life total hit 0, go to do some degenerate crap and your opponent uses anything that will destroy a creature, or an artifact, and you immediately lose.
Creatures and artifacts are the easiest permanents to kill with the most options in multiple colors. (Creatures: every single color can get rid of it easily. Swords to plowshares, smite the monstrous and multiple exile effects for white. Any number of fight spells for green, burn for red, outright kill, -x/-x or drain in black, bounce and the occasional kill in blue. Artifacts die really easily to White green and red for cheap. Disenchant kills artifacts and enchantments in white, naturalize in green (or Krosan Grip if you want to show them that you REALLY fucking mean it) shatter, shattering spree more options than i care to try to remember for red.)
All in all not a bad assessment. I wouldnt say platinum angel is bad per se, just extremely inefficient and dangerous to rely on.
One with nothing is basically always bad unless your running some jank thats built around using discard effects or having no hand.
Who else would like this to become a series with other tcg's?
HERE!
I'd be interested in seeing him do it with Pokemon also.
Cardfight Vanguard, Pokemon, Yugioh, MtG... what else?
He did Pokemon already just not edited yet
So... Cardfight Vanguard?
I’m pretty impressed by the level of mindfulness of context and support pieces displayed in this video. Even if you don’t know what that context is, that fact that you’re immediately able to figure out “this must have some combo/synergy” is really impressive.
I need him to awkwardly read magic cards more
You: "Is Skullclamp good?"
Me: laughs in Krenko Mob Boss deck
I'm so glad you decided to use my idea! I'd be more than happy to help with any ruling questions and suggest more cards to look at but your chat was pretty good about it for the most part.
One thing that may not have got across about Mystic Remora's cumulative upkeep is that it builds. So the first turn you have to pay 1 to keep it on the field, next turn you pay 2 and so on. But yeah even still the amount of value it generates is insane.
I think you're right about Platinum Angel. There are lots of decks that can get 7 mana quickly and there are lots of degenerate things you can do with it, like any effect to pay life. There are also really powerful cards with little cost but they say "you lose the game next turn" like Glorious End or Pact of Negation. Platinum Angel will protect you from those downsides as long as you can keep it around.
Some really funny cards I think you should look at are Knowledge Pool and Hive Mind. Thanks again, I can't wait to see more of these kinds of videos! Have a good one
I love this so much. As a magic player your problem solving is incredible and I love it
Wait this is gold... Yo I'd watch more of this
Back then when I'm not yet aware of how MTG is played, whenever I get to see an MTG card, I always have this feeling of mystery towards them, not knowing how they operate or how to use them. And it's actually cool tbh, since because of that feeling, I also felt like it's cool to collect them. I dunno, it was weird, but yeah, to me it kinda seemed cool to collect such cards that I don't even know how to use 😅 And then bam, YGO happened. I was in 6th grade around 2003/2004 when the anime was first shown here in the Philippines. I instantly fell in love with it and of course it naturally introduced me into the world of TCG which I haven't known before. It was cool because I also love those kinds of games when you have to rely on your brains and luck, and you have this "something" with you that you have to battle with against other people. I love that kind of concepts even in videogames, that's why it's only natural for me to also love the gameplay of YGO. Too bad though I wasn't able to experience playing the actual TCG version, but instead only played it through its handheld games, from the GBA ones, to NDS up to PSP.
And then 2012 happened. I was already in college by this time. Our internship has already started, reason why the number of our classes has lessened so much. I remember going to school just to attend one or two classes per day, and we have the rest of the day for nothing lol. Then one of my blockmate/friend introduced us to MTG, and then the rest is history. I thought it was cool that I'll finally be able to know how it's played. And then we went into constructing our own decks. And yeah, the only time I managed to fully experience TCG is when we/my own group of friends/blockmates started playing MTG. It was both fun and enlightening...enlightening in a way that I didn't even realize that MTG's community is that immense and lively! It's because it was only that time when I started to discover that there were a lot of shops around our city selling cards and organizing weekly tourneys especially FNMs (Friday Night Magic). I didn't even know before that stuff like that happens lol. So yeah, it was a fun experience while it lasted because right now the rest of my friends has stopped playing already. Only my other friend and I are still showing some interest into the game and are still checking out cards whenever we have time, so I like to think that both of us were just on a very long hiatus haha.
Funny, looking back to our senior years when we started playing MTG even in our school, I remember seeing some of our juniors who also started playing TCG because of us. Only difference is that they play YGO iirc. I wonder if that became a tradition or has become a thing in our college campus after we graduated.
If this becomes a frequent series I'll sub instantly. The Duel Logs is innocent and precious and we must protect him.
From what???? I say, let him delve into the abyss and we fish him out afterwards before he loses his mind to Nicol....
It would be fun to make it a mini-series where you evaluate cards from other games.
One with nothing is used in Madness decks. As Madness gains additional effects or cheaper cost for discarding them.
Carrion feeder is a very powerful creature that it is a Sacrifice Outlet. Its is featured in a style called Aristocrats.
Mystic remora is incredibly powerful card. Many decks use it.
Timothar, is a really good in vampire tribal. But also consider the fact that summoning sickness only applies to the turn it is summoned. So if that effect triggers during your opponents turn they can attack on your turn
Platinum Angel isnt really played often. Targeted removal is easy to do.
Skull Clamp is a borderline broken card.
Madness decks are blue, green, and/or red and none of them run at one with nothing. You'd have to do the madness cost right then and there and more often then not you wont have enough mana to cast more than 1 spell. Also you have to hold cards in your hand until you're ready and even then you're setting yourself for failure. You're vulnerable to hand disruption and then when whatever you drop in for madness gets countered or removed you won't have any cards in hand.
You were spot on everytime, your chat was wrong Platinum Angel is good in exactly the situation you thought. There are a ton of ways to cheat it out to avoid paying 7, too. It's not like, insanely good, but it is good.
Also, impressive that you saw the benefit of Skull Clamp immediately! Not even R&D noticed lol, it was originally +1/+0 and they "nerfed" it lol
So as a Yu-Gi-Oh card, it sounds like Skull Clamp would be a Continuous Spell (or self-returning Equip Spell) with the effects:
"During the Main Phase you can discard 1 card[*]: Place 1 counter on a monster you control, that monsters gains 1000 ATK and loses 1000 DEF for each counter placed on it this way.
Any monster with a counter placed on it by the effect of this card whose DEF is reduced to 0 is destroyed (Even if this card is no longer on the field.)
If a monster with a counter placed on it by the effect of this card is destroyed: Draw 2 cards."
I imagine depending on the rulings for that MtG card, a proper recreation could also have its effect activated during either player's turn (except during the Damage Step) and/or have the if-destroyed effect also be a "(Even if this card is no longer on the field.)"
[*] I'm not sure what the YGO equivalent for Mana would be, whether that would be Life Points or something more abstract like banishing a card from your grave.
probably the closest Yugioh equivalent to that equip cost would be paying 100 lifepoints. It's very minimal and the card advantage far outweighs any risk unless you're close to death. There really isn't an equivalent of lands in Yugioh and discarding or banishing cards wouldn't really net you card advantage like it does in MTG, just would be really effective card filtering.
You can think of MTG Equipment as being more like an Equip Spell that sets itself if the Monster it's equipped to is destroyed, and can be re-equipped to a monster you control with its equip cost. Interestingly, Equip can't be used during OP's turn, its essentially an Ignition Effect ("Sorcery speed").
There's really not a great equivalent to Mana, but something like cards or LP is the best.
@@pepperonin1914 Originally the "one normal/tribute summon per turn" rule was designed to function similarly to mana. High cost monsters required low cost monsters as tribute, which functionally slowed them down. The abundance of special summoning has made this obsolete though.
I'd love to see more of these! I'm more of an M:tG player (Used to play Yu-Gi-Oh, last thing I remember was Synchros.) And it's interesting to see how well you can recognize power between games.
'Cause most of this was accurate!
Not so much Platinum Angel. Yes it can be a degenerate combo piece, but it's also a 7 drop artifact creature with 4 toughness. It's usually gonna cost your opponent 2 or 3 Mana to get rid of it with an instant, and mana trades can be, depending on your deck, about as big as card trades.
If you have an enchantment or artifact to grant it indestructible or Hexproof (Cannot be targeted by opponents), they can still often respond to that and kill it.
f they can't, it can be strong. But they often will, and there's workarounds.
One With Nothing is one of those cards that's completely bad by itself, but is so cost effective & good at what it does that it's just waiting for another card to come out to be completely broken.
rootwalla
i use it in modern madvine
@@God-ch8lq basking rootwala is good, but there are plenty of ways to discard single cards that you gain benefits from the discard besides rootwala's madness cost, so I wouldn't say it breaks this.
It's like there are cards your opponent could play that punish you or benefit them from you having more cards in hand, but this is still just a sideboard option against those decks.
It will literally never be good. There are plent of discard outlets that give benefit.
@@BobertJoe edh players will find a way to break any card
@@BobertJoe don't be so hasty. There just needs to be 1 solid set where a draft archetype is based off you having fewer cards in hand & I have a hard time seeing that in any other color except black.
@TheDuelLogs would 100% suggest doing more videos like this. despite having not played magic, you are doing a really good job determining which cards are good and bad. My recommendation is to look at a card like 'Tibalt's Trickery', I would be curious to see how you examine the card.
"This card can kill your opponent in one turn"
Yugioh: Meh
MTG: OMG BROKEN
"Draw 2 cards"
MTG: Meh
Yugioh: OMG BROKEN
"Search your deck"
Yugioh: Meh
MTG: OMG BROKEN
To be fair, Yugioh wishes it has searchers that can find any card or any type of card from the deck without having to pay out of the ass for it.
This was an awesome video, I'd watch this for hours. Please more!
And yes I did watch the whole vod. Please do more!
I think one of the funniest examples of this are the fetchlands from Magic. I don't play Magic but I've heard plenty about how broken the fetchlands and how essential they are for competitive play in Magic. But show them to a Yugioh player and they would be confused, since we've had Terraforming for an eternity and EVERY archetype moves cards from the deck to somewhere else.
I thought fetchlands were good because it reduces your deck size by 4 or 8 depending on how many you have--thereby raising consistency?
@@windknife Correct, as well as being fixing for multicolored decks, since you can find the exact color mana you need
@@windknife People tend to over-estimate how useful the thinning aspect is, it turns the needle only 1-2 percent, depending on format. What makes them good is what Zach mentioned: they're functionally 5-colour lands, since there are dual-type lands in most formats. So a fetch that gets mountain (red) or plains (white) can get a red/white dual, but also any dual that touches red or white, so it can also get a black/white duel (so the red/white dual can fetch black almost as easily as it fetches red or white). They also provide a free shuffle effect, which can be relevant. They also put a land in your graveyard, if you're running cards that care about that. Some decks are even able to draw advantage out of the life payment. But mostly it's the fact that they can fetch for literal perfect mana every time.
@@tcgacademia
Never thought about saccing one dual for another dual. That makes sense. But I assure you, landfall was one of my first decks, so I'm aware how powerful the much cheaper Fabled Passage and Evolving Wilds are.
But terraforming has been at 1 for a long time precisely because of how strong 3 copies would be...
edit: oh I get it, I just looked them up. It feels more like they would function as toon table of contents with extra utility rather than terraforming though.
I love hearing all the difference terminology you use from yugio to help you better understand each effect and cards!
Amazing video, my dude, it is really fascinating to listen someone that comes from another game giving their thoughts about the game they don't play, trying to figure everything out. I wonder, how did you formulate the card list you are commenting on?
Yo this was a lot of fun, I’d love to see more of this
This was a super cool video. I'd love to see a collab with a Magic The Gathering player where you both show each other cards of varying qualities from both games and try and guess if they're good or not.
Dude, you have no idea, this video idea is incredible, and watching you parse out mtg effects and realize how busted something so innocuous as skullclamp is, is just amazing. PLEASE keep doing this!
The thing when judging MTG cards is that judging them in isolation isn't the best way to tell if a card is good or bad.
The reason why carrion feeder is really good isn't the reason why you think. People don't use the sacrifice effect for the sake of combat. They use the sacrifice effect because it has no additional cost.
I'm the commander format, synergy is key to making a good deck since decks are centered around a single legendary that you have access to at all times. There are some commanders that benefit from your creatures dying and they have the power to revive them from the grave. Carrion feeder is a combo piece, and a good one at that because it costs one mana. Especially how commander is a singleton format (only one copy of a card per deck), having cards with that effect is pretty busted. Hence why wizards have been adding additional costs for sacrifice effects to prevent the mechanic from getting abused.
To be 100% fair though, the combat potential and similar effects are absolutely parts of why they've been good historically. Like, Nantuko Husk was good for similar reasons many years ago
Oh my fucking god, i love this video so much. Please keep doing it TheDuelLogs s2
Just had a funny idea, theirs a series of anime cards from the 5ds for “turbo duels” that use a turn system to get counters to be able to play spells, which is somewhat like Magic’s system of being able to play cards
As someone who knows absolute JACK about YGO, and plays MTG a lot, this is fascinating. Thank u for this extremely informative video, I heavily enjoyed it. Would love to see a part 2 if it’s on the cards
To clear up some things. In the first place to define whether a card is good or not, you need to specify for which format you are evaluating it in because the power levels and available cards differ greatly. Mystic Remora is a strong card but it's not legal in most of the constructed competitive formats which is why it's known as a commander card. And no, it's not banned in commander.
Platinum Angel really isn't that good anywhere because it costs a lot of mana and dies too easily to removal. He suggested using it to combo with cards that have you take damage which actually exists as a strong combo deck but it uses other cards which don't let you lose the game that turn.
Other than that he nailed everything else.
Okay analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
By the time we got to mystic remora my brain was spasming
as somebody who plays both card games i wanna thank chat for not making this to painful to watch.
I was really surprised, at first looked like "cave man evaluates technology", but, damn, you have killer instincts. Actually, you seem like a very good player. Respect
You didnt put in the best line: "Chat: Its good in casual commander. DualLogs: So its garbage!"
Wow, he really is understanding Magic!
"At least its good in Duel Links haha"
@@StarkMaximum Hey, he understood how the mana cost to P/T ratio matters!
God I fucking hate "This is good in EDH!" players, especially around spoiler season "TOTALLY PUTTING THIS IN MY KAALIA DECK!" Don't get me wrong, EDH is a fun format. But holy shit it's probably the easiest format to solve out of any of the non-rotating formats. You get to play Mana Crypt, Demonic Tutor, Timetwister, Gaea's Cradle, and Mishra's Workshop. If you're looking at a card and it doesn't say "Draw 8 cards" for 2U, it's not "good in EDH" since it's competing with fucking Wheel of Fortune and Time Spiral.
I've have you in my recommended for a long time but never watched until this one. Great video!
This type of video has been funny to me since I saw Cimoooooo do it, you should do a video going over the worst card of every Yugioh type.
The black mana is swamp, the blue is island, the green is forest, the red is mountain, and the whitw is plains. These are the 5 mana types in the game. Also enchantments are equal to field spells or contenous spell cards unless they are destroyed. Artifacts are bascially just like equip cards but when the monster is destroyed yhe artifact stays on the field until it gets destroyed. And the instanst spell is skmilar to the quick play spell in which you can use it durin either players durn during what ever phase if you have tge mana cost.
"The person who only plays yugioh" and watching Vtubers
And he has great taste in em too
Shoutouts to the guy who put the most powerful and meme-defining card ever printed into the bottom right corner at the end, Colossal Dreadmaw
"If you feel the ground quake, run. If you hear its bellow, flee. If you see its teeth, it's too late."
The only card that could compete with Collosal Dreadmaw is probably the community designed, "Honest Taxpayer"/It That Embezzles.
I’ve always loved that all monsters have flavour text. I’m one of those people that actually care about card lore, and I wish Yugioh did the same (though, there would be no chance with how bloated the card text is for modern cards)
This was fantastic, I would love to see more content in this format
I remember the set of One with Nothing had an archetype that had payoffs with playing with fewer cards in hands than the opponent. Also I can imagine it having a sort of use in reanimator decks, discarding bombs into graveyard, but of course you don’t want to discard the entire hand so I guess it’s still bad! Ahah
Madness would also benefit from this too
@@PhoenicopterusR yeah absolutely!
Stumbled onto this content as a Magic player and now im invested! Do more like this please.
*reading platinum angel*
DuelLogs: “It seems like a combo tool where you bring it out and do a bunch of degenerate shit so you can’t lose…”
Me (a magic player): PFFFT LOL YEP THATS RIGHT
I had a b/w deck that was just meant to be super trolly. Used multiple platinum angel style effects. Entire game plan was to get one of them on board alongside something i could pay life into, pay all my life then use soul conduit to swap life totals. It was b/w for reanimate effects and so i could use phyrexian unlife and other pseudo platinum angels.
That said, i would absolutely never use platinum angel in any remotely serious deck.
@@N008Nightmare yoo that sounds sick to swap life with people when you have negative life. I never thought of that!
It's interesting to see the difference in the mindset between the different games.
Like the fact the focus on the lack of 1/turn restriction for Carrion Feeder instead of the lack of a cost, or considering the ability a combat trick instead of a sac outlet. And considering their worth as an absolute instead of related to the formats (Platinum Angel isn't much now, but in standard would be possibly decent and great in limited).
It's not to criticize or anything, it makes sense, it's just interesting to watch.
It was definitely neat that carrion feeder's "sac anything as many times as you want whenever you want" is quite good in both games, but the approach to figure out why it's good is different (not 1/turn, no mana cost).
Most of this comes down to “Card draw is busted in both games”
This was a fun watch as a long time Magic player (and more recent YGO player), but I have to question what experience some of the apparent Magic players in the chat have, and the subjective nature of some of these people calling certain cards good or bad. Like, calling Platinum Angel a bad card? Sure, if you're talking about it in a vacuum, but you don't evaluate cards like that. For me, as someone with dozens of commander decks of every archetype, Platinum Angel can allow you to do absolutely busted things with the right other cards (Final Fortune on an Iscochron Sceptre with Angel out = infinite extra turns for me, no this isn't that wild I've done it multiple times in my Osgir deck).
I knew it, chat told me it was bad but I told them exactly what you said!! lol
@@TheDuelLogs After that I was worried someone would call Skullclamp bad at least they're not that shortsighted. 🤣
Exactly, plat gives access to alot of plays that wouldn't normally be possible.
I thinking most people are evaluating these cards in the context of 60 card formats, since commander is a causal format and therefore the meta is heavily dependent on your play group. I feel like saying something is good with a specific commander is like saying that a card was great in one of Hardleg’s what a deck runs.
@@MineNick11 If that were true I'd question the evaluation of the value pieces like Ramora or Clamp, which are either banned or have become too slow in formats outside of commander, but I see what you mean, these are just my points as a long time player in multiple formats.
I don't feel like that 2nd comparison is totally fair; I may have used 1 of my decks as an example, but I can think of at least 4 of my decks off the top of my head that while I don't need it, Platinum Angel would still be a useful card in.
Also, between my multiple player groups and everything I've ever read online, I don't recall the last time I've seen/heard someone call Platinum Angel bad (maybe not the most powerful thing ever, but never just "it's bad").
This is a really neat idea! I'd love to see more of things like this!
I'm kinda upset in an hour+ stream not a *single* person sent him a card with *banding.* I'm disappointed in all of you.
This was hella entertaining as a seasoned MTG player.
Im not new to Yu-Gi-Oh but definitely don't know a lot of cards.
I'd love see another one of these vids
Flavor text in mtg is indeed cool, it often describes the underlying storyline of that release cycle. The absolutely random creatures and cards in yugioh has prevented me from playing yugioh, and I stick to mtg.
The thing about mystic remora is that it has cumulative upkeep, not just upkeep. An upkeep cost is something that gets paid at the start of every turn, but a cumulative upkeep is more complex. Every time your turn starts, you put an “age” counter on the card, then pay the upkeep cost for each age counter on it. So the first turn it cost 1 to keep, then on your next turn you need to pay 2, then 3, then 4, etc. If you ever choose not to pay or just can’t, you have to sacrifice it. So if you just wait a couple turns of just playing creatures before playing your other spells, they sink a lot of mana into a card that doesn’t draw them a lot.
A good benchmark for measuring the effectiveness/efficiency of draw spells is divination. 3 mana gets you 2 cards at sorcery speed (only on your turn while the stack is empty) so if your opponent only plays creatures for 2 turns, you spend 2 mana and drew 0 cards. As a lasting effect for a few turns it’s powerful but a lot of times you dump a lot of mana for a few cards. Unless your opponent is playing a ridiculous amount of low cost noncreature spells, you’re probably only going to get a few cards before the tax gets too high and you can’t afford to keep paying it. Every time you pay the upkeep cost that’s a chunk of your mana that isn’t being used to play the cards you just drew. So realistically you usually only keep it around for 3 or 4 turns which probably won’t even get you 5 cards max. At a total cost of 7 or 11 mana for 5 cards. Remember the benchmark says pay 3 to draw 2, so draw 4 shouldn’t cost more than 6 mana, and draw 6 shouldn’t cost more than 9 mana. But here we are paying more than 9 mana to draw less than 6 cards…
So while it’s definitely on the strong side, it probably doesn’t get a ridiculous value unless you’re playing against a highly competitive deck which runs a lot of low cost noncreature spells… probably the main reason it’s banned is if you have multiple copies out at once, and your opponent casting a single spell can give you a huge card advantage
“This is a bad card right?”
>one of the most broken cards
LMAO nice, loving this
Wow, listening to you slowly start to understand the mechanics of the game was so satisfying
I LOVE THIS!!! I watch yu gi oh stuff all the time but play magic and its awesome to see what its like from your perspective
You're on the right track with Platinum Angel but basically these days it's an extremely tame effect for how much it costs, even in terms of things you can cheat out with degenerate combos. Some other artifacts that you could cheat out in the same way as you could the angel would be cards like Sundering Titan, Blightsteel Colossus, Wurmcoil Engine, Triplicate Titan, or Myr Battlesphere. Most of them have backbreaking effects and they actually make progress towards winning the game if not just win on the spot, instead of just not losing with the Angel, and even then the Angel is a simple removal spell away from being useless.
This was really fun to watch, hope to see you do more
Maybe find a mtg person to colab with and give them yugioh cards to look at too
This was awesome! I don’t know anything about yogi oh, I’ve been playing magic for decades and this was really neat to see! I wanna see a pro magic player that’s never played yogi oh do the same!
Watching your analysis leads me to believe you have a huge brain. I am very impressed, great stuff.
The analysis was much closer to my expectations. I'm heading to twitch to watch the whole video :)
Damn I love this video and that stream already (yes I saw the unlisted video). I could watch another 10h of just that. :P
Listening to Yu-Gi-Oh player terminology applied to magic cards seems so wild. Your card evaluation is so on point man! As far as platinum angel goes, there are absolutely combos with it that will win you the game for sure, but there are so many other more mana(Land) efficient ways to get the same outcome that it's never really played.
It's interesting how universal the concept of card advantage seems to be. Even in very simplistic games like cards, the universe, and everything, where you just always draw to five cards, I find myself constantly reminding myself to thin my hand whenever possible to burn through my deck faster.
We need more of this content. Also the catch (it's funny, cause remora is a fish) of Mystic remora is that you have to pay 1 more each turn. 1 mana the first turn it is in play, 2 mana the second turn it is in play etc.
prime content 👌 I'd love if you did another ep of this but with a magic player to talk about the cards and pick out interesting ones, like I'd love to see you evaluate lurrus
One with Nothing: Famously bad card. Next to no situations where it’s isn’t a downside, and even fewer where a different card would be better. Saw some play in a specific metagame, but even then it was considered a dubious pick.
Carrion Feeder: Very powerful. One of the best creatures at that mana cost exactly for the reasons described.
Mystic Remora: A powerful and unique card that can be, but isn’t always, incredibly effective. Seen in Vintage, a format where extremely powerful and cheap artifact cards (think Black Lotus) are cast early on, as well as in multiplayer formats. Otherwise, the cumulative upkeep makes it hard to actually cast all the cards you’re drawing - if you end up drawing any with it at all.
Timothar, King of Bats: A fun card designed for casual play, and mana costed to keep it that way. Better options are available.
Platinum Angel: Not a bad card, but tricky to utilize in a competitive environment. Sometimes used as an edge-case option in decks looking to directly put powerful artifacts or creatures into play.
Skullclamp: Incredibly powerful. Banned in multiple formats and often cited as a failure in balancing.
Reading the YGO player's chat on the left being totally confused about MTG cards was fun.