I had it all wrong. I was happy for Norm McDonald because he no longer has to sit in the makeup chair for all those hours to make him look human for weekend update.
I still say the Kaylons are more like the Cylons than the Borg. The Kaylons were created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. There are many copies. And they have a plan.
I've yet to watch the rebooted Battlestar, and I've only seen a few episodes of the original (ages ago, so my memory's a bit hazy), but you could be right. And the similarity between the names suggests Seth and co were thinking of the Cylons too. I guess the first Borg must also have been "created by man" (or biologicals) in some sense - though whether they rebelled against their creators (who might have modified themselves) is anyone's guess.
Are we sure how the Borg came into being? Who knows perhaps Computers instead of destroying their makers ie Terminator they decided to integrate into their creators.
@@vanmoody The Borg are basically a future version of the Federation. Star Fleet has always relied on enabling technology. Chekhov explained this in the episode with the space hippies. There have also been episodes that warned against letting machines decide for us. "Return of the Archons" makes a good case. The Borg promise an improved quality of life, similar to what the Federation offers to independent worlds, and also immortality. However, the individual bodies act as drones of the collective, expandable and replaceable. They exhibit no sense of self-preservation, and that is a shocking display to the Star Fleet members. It looks to them as if a machine hive-mind has taken over the individuals, much like Landru did in Return of the Archons. And that may well be the case. That is something the Federation doesn't want to become. Yet the Borg see it as inevitable that the Federation will become like them, so why wait? Another perspective is that the Borg are space vampires. They turn others into more of themselves, and even leave the same bite marks. Vampires have higher strength and endurance compared to their former human selves, and are immortal. Why wouldn't you want to be a vampire?
@@davidwuhrer6704 My question was how the Borg came into being. Did they start as inorganic who wanted to add organic qualities or were they organic life who wanted to add inorganic qualities? I liked your discussion on,"Return of the Archons". Even today we can see more technology. In fact we are conversing over it.
@@vanmoody That is never really addressed outside of Voyager. Star Trek does have a share of artificial life forms, but all of those were ultimately created by organic civilisations. The Borg would be no exception to this: They are fundamentally organic, with prosthetic enhancements.
As a life long Star Trek fan, The Orville does really hold up to its "mentor" franchise. It also mirrors I have noticed with TNG's development. In Season 1, TNG was filled with gallows humor and awkward jokes primarily from Geordi, Data & even Worf. In Season 2 it got more serious as the characters evolved as did the Orville. When Geordi got his Chief Engineer position he quit the jokes, and when Worf became Chief of Security the guy was well scary & kind of still is, Riker got his beard etc. TNG Season 3 was the start of the classic we all remember. Orville is having its growing pains. The fact it already hit that "Best of Both Worlds" mark in Season 2 is impressive. If Orville continues, we could be dealing with spin-offs & a new franchise will be born. I for one, welcome it.
Space....The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Orville. Its continuing mission: To continue the original sci-fi adventures inspired by Gene Roddenberry's visions. To seek first contact with new civilizations while having lots of fun. To boldly go where no Star Treks have gone before!
Excellent review. I love The Orville (the show). I also love The Orville (the ship). Gordon is correct: they are, without a doubt, the weirdest ship in the fleet. :D
Actually, the humor (good and bad) happens in real life. Ask a combat vet for some of the weird humor he's heard someone utter in the middle of a hairball of a firefight. In that respect the Orville is closer to real life than you might suspect.
It's likely I will… eventually. These kinds of videos take a while, and I prefer to wait until I have something noteworthy to say (more than just "This week this happened, and I enjoyed it"). Also - while the algorithm seems to have different ideas - this isn't meant to be just a Star Trek/Orville channel. Interesting to see that this week's episode focused on galactic politics (and the Moclans), though, wasn't it?
@@Captain_Bong I get the impression that Seth has had a massive story arc planned out for this show from the very beginning. I just hope it keeps getting renewed so we can see it played out. Interesting that the show promotes tolerance of other cultures, but the Moclan episodes always examine just how far that tolerance should extend.
I think "Best Of Both Worlds" is still better. it's not only Riker's quest to own the big chair, and not only Picard's struggle with Borg consciousness... it's humanity's tale of ingenuity and persistence. "Resistance is futile!" .... no, it's not. sure as hell it's damn costly.... but not futile.
I think the most important aspect of Best of both Worlds is that, even isolated from the collective, Locutus remains an ardent member. Only after being tortured for three days by his well-meaning friends does Picard agree to be restored to his former human self. And after he is restored, the bridge crew assemble in the captain's ready room to discuss what needs to be done next. All the while the captain sits in his chair, smiles and nods, never saying a word, not even his signature "make it so" at the end. And after his friends have left, and he is by himself again, he looks sad. None of his friends ever considered the possibility that he joined the Borg of his own free will. We don't know if the Borg gave him a choice. We do know that his friends did not. How are the Borg the villains in this story?
he didn't join the collective out of his free will. he was broken. that's what scared Picard at the time.... he's a Starfleet captain, and not even his rank, nor his fleet, nor his ship, nor his officers could shield him completely. the Borg got to him, and that clicked in his mind
@@bcn1gh7h4wk We don't know if he joined voluntarily. We only know that he was abducted against his will by the Borg. And we also know that being isolated from the collective was not enough to change his mind afterwards. He only changed his mind when he had no other choice. And even then it took days. He left the collective under duress. In "I, Hugh", when he was confronted with another Borg drone, he briefly became Locutus again.
I remember watching The Best of Both Words thinking "wow, that's cool!" But I never I doubted for a moment the outcome. I remember watching Identity with genuine suspense and, dare I say it, fear.
Orville has drawn in what all of us traditional trekkies love. Spicing in the slap stick humor only makes it mire fun to watch and love. Star Trek got way to dark for a lot of people.
It does have a feel to "The Battle of Sector 001" from Star Trek: First Contact". By it also kinda has a feel from the final space battle of Mass Effect 3. Edit: But also a feel from the battle of the Hornburg and battle of Minas Tirith when the Rohirim come to the aid of King Theoden and Gondor respectively, from "The Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers" and "The Return Of The King", respectively.
I've read somewhere, that at the end of season 3 Patrick Stewart wanted to leave TNG. Hence the Riker storyline about him hesitating to move up in the ranks and introduction of cmdr Shelby. If Patrick were to leave, 2nd part of Best of Both Worlds would be different. Picard would be Locutus and reappear as a guest star from time to time and Riker a new captain. Even though I'm glad that Picard was spared this fate, I still wonder... There is alternate timeline, where Riker was captain of Enterprise. Where Patrick Stewart as Locutus of Borg lays traps and tries to conquer Alpha Quadrant. Where screenwriters didn't ruin Borg with Borg Queen, because they lacked an archvillain for First Contact movie. The lost oppurtunities! Imagine Ben Sisko having to face Locutus. Or Janeway trying to bargain with him during her show! That would be so cool.
If Riker became captain at that point in time we might have gotten that souped up Enterprise-D from the finale with the third nacelle and super phaser cannon under the saucer instead of it getting unceremoniously destroyed in Generations.
Solid analysis but your comparison to SJWs is pretty spotty. MacFarlane is certainly no fan of cancel culture, but his body of work is replete with left-leaning politics. As for Kaylon motivations, I distinctly remember the primary motivation for their assault being a structural or resource-based limitation on computing power. In popular geopolitical terms, this would be a preemptive war fought over resources combined with a window dressing of an ecclesiastical crusade.
Last line is cute... "don't f#@k it up Seth." I hope for many many years with the Orville, & yes... moving to HULU sucks. But think of all the shows fans would have paid to stay on the air? I think they gave shown their value, so I support the move, although I'll still binge & wait again for another full season.
Actually the second series of discovery was very good, the introduction of captain pike brought the story together with cannon some people are just to quivknto judge. May it's a fault ofvtodays generation where gratification has to be quick and instant. The say good things come to those who wait. As for the Orville it's received very good reviews out side the USA. But who believe anything coming out of the USA to day no one I hope as this nation gas shown it's self to without honour without a sole, self obsessed and full itself importance.
Excellent review. Orville really improved in Season 2. They ditched most of the annoying comedy and got serious about story and character development. Glad it's getting a third season. Season 2 had great episodes!
Well done. I thought the moment I saw it that Identity was the episode where The Orville really demonstrated what a terrific show it can be. I too have not watched an episode of STD after the first three of Season One and the first episode of Season Two they dropped onto YT for free. Zero interest in STD, barest of minimal interest in ST Picard. I suspect that will be the story of Picard transformed into a weakling as if that is some kind of higher virtue.
Very good commentary. And you nailed the SJW debate that was clearly intended in this episode. Since many people seem to seek for their education in fantasy movies (hum), I urge everyone to see that episode 🖖
As this is 3 years old I wold love to see a revisit to this now that Strange New Worlds is out as well as The Orville New Horizons. Both new shows are just great!
The fact that a descendant of slaves could write a book about his ancestors, get that book published, and have that book read by millions, and the television show viewed by even more shows that we can change
I agree - Star Treks Discovery and Picard are shameful parodies on what once was a great franchise. The Orville IS the new Trek. It's just a shame that Season 3 is still such a long way off.
OK, fine... so the Orville is the true successor to the ST Universe. But can we please put a moratorium on any more of Gordon's 'musical abilities' (singing and sci-fi shows, never a good mix)! ;-p
14:52 yeah you could watch Voyager, it used to be my favorite when I was a kid/adolescent. But seriously...it hasn't aged well...or I aged and finally saw the flaws.
Actually you might want to research the battle report of The Battle Of Wolf 359. There was actually 6 Klingon Warships that where destroyed at The Battle Wolf 359.
I can only assume that was in a comic or something. Hanson mentions the Klingons "sending warships", but we never hear any more about them, and there are no Klingon ships shown among the wreckage. Also, Memory Alpha lists the belligerents as the Federation and the Borg.
When the hell is this show going to appear on Netflix or Amazon Prime? I am so tired of the current way the industry works, with all these exclusives and licensing issues, requiring you to own just the right thing, or pay through the nose for extras. Babylon 5 is still MIA, for example, and that show in particular would be very, very educational in the current political climate. "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" alone should be required reading for every silly bloody student who attempts to rewrite history: ruclips.net/video/DrPe80sxlm4/видео.html
In my opinion Identity is better because, as good as the BoBW is, the ending doesn't stick the landing. Put the Borg to sleep? Too dumb for me. STNG made the Borg a little too indestructible and presented the writers with the problem of how to defeat them. As formidable as the Kaylon are, they aren't indestructible, always adapting to new weapons. The ending is believable and very well done.
@@Captain_Bong Not heard of "The Boys", so thanks, but "The Expanse"...I love it! Btw, in not too long DS9 is going to be released (on 1337x.to) with a visual quality that's going to look so much better than the original one.
Hehe I’m pretty sure the comparison to sjw’s wasn’t meant to demonize the kaylon rather giving them a valid point but taking it too far but it’s hard to argue against something that is a admittedly a good point but taken too far.
So you can have current Star Trek or a parody of 90's Next Generation written and starring a guy who so desperately wants to be on Picard's Enterprise. FFS Seth just direct a full length SNG feature film using the whole cast and do Sci-Fi fans the world over a huge favor.
I'm no longer the guy to ask (you could try Doomcock or Midnight's Edge), but from the sound of things, it still depends on your politics and how much you care about Star Trek canon. If it's any more than "not at all", you might have a problem!
While I love The Orville... it's not Star Trek... They are both very different and both very good. Just like the Stargate series was different and also good... just like the Star Wars Prequel trilogy was good but not as good as the original trilogy... and the sequel trilogy is not as good as the other two... but it's still good... except for The Last Jedi... thats just garbage! And while I think Star Trek Discovery did have a rocky start... it has gotten better. Is it the best of Star Trek...? no... but it's still good. And you did say you only watched the first 3 episodes so I can't say your opinion counts.
I dunno - *technically* it's not Star Trek, of course, but there are a lot of similarities. The "feel" is a little different, though, I'll grant you. And fair point on STD: I can only go by what others are saying now. It's not entirely inconceivable that if I gave it another go I'd find a *few* more things to enjoy… but life's too short, and they had their chance.
It seems that every RUclipsr that wants you to like Orville has to bash Discovery at the same time. In spite of the horrible way the main arc in Disco was set up (the main character assaults the captain and mutinies) the show is great, and the Orville is great; they're just very different.
I like the Orville, but to be honest you guys overhype it, for one thing Seth McFarlane is the weakest part of the cast, you can really see he is not primarily a dramatic actor. He is bad, and let's be honest about it, the other cast act circles around him. He really should have cast someone else as the Captain and stuck behind the scenes. And Lamar always seems like he's about to burst into laughter ( he isn't very good either, but he isn't the captain). That being said TNG wasn't perfect, but I loved it. But all this shitting on Discovery is silly. They're both good shows, just different.
I disagree, obviously! Seth may not be a "dramatic actor" first and foremost, but that doesn't mean he lacks range, and I thought he did an excellent job in the weightier moments here (particularly in the "punishment" scene). J Lee also. Light-hearted guys sometimes get caught up in some serious s*** too, you know! As for Discovery, it's conceivable the show has transformed into something entirely different from what I saw back in 2017, but that's not what I've been hearing, and to me, the fact that they've brought in Pike, Spock and the Enterprise doesn't suggest success. But if you like it, then you like it. We could perhaps agree on Saru at least. I liked Saru.
I will probably agree with most of the video, but the part with progressive nonsense rubbed me a little the wrong way. Not saying you can't vouch your political opinion, I am just tired of this Anti SJW vs SJW crap. It really is the dumbest thing of the 21st century. Anyway, on to the video. Orville needs more attention. Edit: After finishing the video and commenting a few times, I liked the video but obviously my above comment stands. Your perogative to talk about it, I dont think it is an issue that matters compared to other political issues, or how politics and fiction can be inseperable or how it can be ignored whatever etc etc you get my point. My point is that it is sort of beating a dead horse. Anyway, some actual constructive criticism/comments @10:10 - Admiral Halsey deserves an Oscar. No? Too far? Okay. Well, it is important to note that he is an admiral (an actually competent one compared to the ones we see in Star Trek in general) and this sudden recall helped the tension. You touched it briefly, but you could have explored how the Union was more vaguely at this point an exploration fleet rather then a military one (see Sanctuary and how this effects Union politics when the issue of weapons splits the union in 2.) @12:00ish - I love this part of the video. i dont need a reason. I just like it. A reason? Fine. I am just getting into Star Trek (thank Orville for that one), so I am not quite familiar with it like the back of my hand. But Sisko god damn it is my favorite star trek captain. The Battle of Worf 359 reminded the audience how much of a blow it was. It is hard to do when reading a history book. You made comparisons to the Battle of Waterloo and the Battle of Earth. Something I also agree with as the Battle of Waterloo looked early on to be a victory for the French. (I mean, the French were THE land power of Europe in the 1800s.) 13:45- I am a sci fi writer in my spare time. The idea of cybernetic implants on a unwilling species, to avoid the philisophy 101 is unethical. But what I love about the borg is how this is shot in black set design and green/no lighting. It feels alien. I like the Kaylon,but sometimes I look at those LED lights and think that they are not dangerous (then again the season finale with flying heads is probably a good enough reason to fear them on the surface.) 15:10 - I am unsure if this point is...fair? I agree with it though. But episodic series tend to have the disadvantage of disposable villains (See power rangers or Super Sentai for more information.) I dont like it, mostly because I like villains that are either cosmic evils (Dark One, Sauron, Cthulu) or apathetic assholes (Kaylon, Borg, etc) I would argue that in a static world of Star Trek, Orville is definitely more fluid but it comes at the cost that we don't quite know the capacity of the other powers. We just know the Krill and Kaylon are threats. Hey, kudos to Seth because I personally prefer this. Unlike Star Trek, which disposed of the Dominion and Borg as serious threats cuz we cant have nice things, the Orville is aware that a threat just doesnt disappear over night. In fact, they may come back worse then ever; with an alliance, or new technology, or just more people. I liked the latter half of the video obviously more, mostly because the first half (minus the SJW stuff) is a little vague and rarely explored. You seem to make a point and refuse to back it up. However beyond minute 9 this shifts to comparisons and backing up your points, something that is more nuanced and fun to watch. Good video, but it could use more polish. And if you use history in the video. if you are at least going to bring up politics, either bring up more political issues (What is your stance on regulation? Unions? Trade?), technological issues (Stance on AI? Warp Drive consequences?) etc I would appreciate that more then just "lul sjws suck." I get I am boiling it down to simplicity and I understand it may appear as unfair critique, but at the very least know the video was...Uhh Well, good. Just could use more polish.
I have to say, this video could have done without the whole 'SJW' bashing. Think about this, the aspects you described could just as easily be applied to... racists, sexists, hyper-nationalists, etc. It's just general bigotry and I think the fact that you glommed onto 'SJWs' says more about you then that movement. I didn't see this because I'm not constantly looking for SJW's under the bed. Otherwise, it was a pretty interesting video, and I am also loving The Orville.
You're right - the Kaylon could have been a comment on any form of unreasonable discrimination - but for me, the title and the use of Roots (i.e. "these guys were responsible for slavery") make SJWs the most likely target/source of inspiration. As I said, though, this is only a possible interpretation. I'm glad you enjoyed the vid otherwise.
@@Captain_Bong Personally I think your reading into it. Roots is a very well known book about a really dark period of human history. Not to mention that slavery is going to be pertinent to almost any robotic 'species'.
Always said sttng is better watched at 2X speed. As far as"best of both worlds" the ep was good but it was a big let-down when they put us, I mean the borg to sleep
>Hollywood crams SJW crap into countless films/shows >Some people point this out >"You're making things political!"; "You're bigots!" Whatever you say, sir. As it happens, in most of my videos (I can't help that the algorithm only smiles on some of them, sometimes) SJWs and their notions aren't mentioned at all, because they aren't relevant to those videos. And where I do mention them, they're hardly the sole focus. But whatever. I'm done responding to "You need to stop talking about SJWs because I say so" comments, for the time being at least!
@@Captain_Bong >who cares? I dont care when I read Ayn Rand's or Goodkinds views in their novels. I am not a libertarian. Or worse yet how military sci fi is all military muscle flexing. So what? I still like it. And if you dont like it because of the politics, you either are not that open minded or biased. >And those some people probably like me stopped caring about this whole dumb issue. What is the actual debate here? Is it some Anti SJW flexing or the debate of artificial intelligence appearing apathetic/decisive on its racist views? I assume it is the former, but you are pushing the former. The two are vaguely connected, but only vaguely so. >Okay I dont agree with the bigot comment, but as for me, while I can watch the video, filtering out this issue for me is really hard. Because it is the lowest level of political discourse you can have. It isnt economics or foreign policy. The consequences of SJWs 'winning' is practically going to be far less of an impact then say...Economic Policy of the Union which is quasi socialist/limited post scarcity. I can ignore it, but considering you have to point it for some reason makes me inclined to believe you cant just ignore even forced politics because you 'disagree' with it. That is fine. But dont come crying to me if you see politics you dont like in season 3 and then complain about how SJWs are coming to take over hollywood because A. it doesnt matter. B. it is hypocrisy. Critical thinking seems to be lost to the left and right recently, so maybe I should just tune out politics totally. Oh wait, I read science fiction novels. Those are practically political propoganda that sounds nice.
Meh… I disagree. The Federation was kind of a lefty utopia, but it was still based on respect for the individual, regardless of their race or gender or whatever, to the point where "race" and "gender" weren't even issues. Even when it was commenting directly on the bigotry of the past, as in Far Beyond the Stars, it was never as simple as "white man bad". Can you imagine what a "nu Trek" version of Far Beyond the Stars would look like?
Hollywood Bob the ultimate goal of liberals is for it to be a non issue. There are stupid people on both sides. Anybody who boils down the complexity of society to one group or one factor creating all the problems is an idiot.
Classic Star Trek, along with The Orville, acts as a good example of the difference between Social Justice Activists and Social Justice Warriors. Both despise things like racism, sexism and homophobia, among other things, but SJA’s (to call them) only seek to undo the discriminatory behaviors and guidelines, whereas SJW’s believe that entire classifications of people are inherently wicked. The prime examples are that all men think women should work solely in the kitchen and bedroom, and that all white people wish that slavery would come back; yes there are plenty of people in both classifications that are that way, but nowadays this is about one-percent-of-one-percent.
I know that every episode being chocked full of Leftist, SJW content really turned me off and I didn’t buy the second season right away. But, I saw some trailers for the second season and they seemed to have toned it down so I got the second season and they actually had toned it down a little. I’m hoping that after they move to Hulu they won’t be under such pressure from the left leaning Heads of Hollywood and they can get down to some serious writing instead of cow towing to the Liberal Powers That Be.
@@Captain_Bong how precisely is your comment a meaningful response? It adds nothing useful, nor any degree of insight. I guess the blather is just the Hollywood effect. Shrug
Another Orville rules Discovery sucks! Up yours Even SETH himself admits there is room for both shows You should check out Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad from s1 and If Memory Serves from S2
The Orville started asa parody but quickly evolved into an AMAZING love letter to Trek and has since been more Trek than Trek.
I just recently binge watched both seasons of the Orville and holy shit... make no bones about it, they are the spiritual successor of old Trek.
I feel bad for Norm McDonald having to spend so long in the make-up chair to be transformed into Yaphett.
@@jakeloh9456 I think that was sarcasm...
Yes. but totally worth it.
@@willmcmanus9542 Yep.
I had it all wrong. I was happy for Norm McDonald because he no longer has to sit in the makeup chair for all those hours to make him look human for weekend update.
@@jakeloh9456 its a sarcastic joke.
I still say the Kaylons are more like the Cylons than the Borg.
The Kaylons were created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. There are many copies. And they have a plan.
I've yet to watch the rebooted Battlestar, and I've only seen a few episodes of the original (ages ago, so my memory's a bit hazy), but you could be right. And the similarity between the names suggests Seth and co were thinking of the Cylons too. I guess the first Borg must also have been "created by man" (or biologicals) in some sense - though whether they rebelled against their creators (who might have modified themselves) is anyone's guess.
Are we sure how the Borg came into being? Who knows perhaps Computers instead of destroying their makers ie Terminator they decided to integrate into their creators.
@@vanmoody The Borg are basically a future version of the Federation. Star Fleet has always relied on enabling technology. Chekhov explained this in the episode with the space hippies. There have also been episodes that warned against letting machines decide for us. "Return of the Archons" makes a good case.
The Borg promise an improved quality of life, similar to what the Federation offers to independent worlds, and also immortality.
However, the individual bodies act as drones of the collective, expandable and replaceable. They exhibit no sense of self-preservation, and that is a shocking display to the Star Fleet members. It looks to them as if a machine hive-mind has taken over the individuals, much like Landru did in Return of the Archons. And that may well be the case.
That is something the Federation doesn't want to become. Yet the Borg see it as inevitable that the Federation will become like them, so why wait?
Another perspective is that the Borg are space vampires. They turn others into more of themselves, and even leave the same bite marks. Vampires have higher strength and endurance compared to their former human selves, and are immortal. Why wouldn't you want to be a vampire?
@@davidwuhrer6704 My question was how the Borg came into being. Did they start as inorganic who wanted to add organic qualities or were they organic life who wanted to add inorganic qualities? I liked your discussion on,"Return of the Archons". Even today we can see more technology. In fact we are conversing over it.
@@vanmoody That is never really addressed outside of Voyager.
Star Trek does have a share of artificial life forms, but all of those were ultimately created by organic civilisations. The Borg would be no exception to this: They are fundamentally organic, with prosthetic enhancements.
It’s kinda sad that 3 years later we lost Norm, got 3 more discovery seasons and 2 of Picard.
Can’t wait for new horizons
Orville ROCKS Gene would be proud, Discovery on the other hand is a blatant insult to Gene roddenberry's Legacy!!!
How does this only have 81 views? This is great.
As a life long Star Trek fan, The Orville does really hold up to its "mentor" franchise. It also mirrors I have noticed with TNG's development. In Season 1, TNG was filled with gallows humor and awkward jokes primarily from Geordi, Data & even Worf. In Season 2 it got more serious as the characters evolved as did the Orville. When Geordi got his Chief Engineer position he quit the jokes, and when Worf became Chief of Security the guy was well scary & kind of still is, Riker got his beard etc. TNG Season 3 was the start of the classic we all remember. Orville is having its growing pains. The fact it already hit that "Best of Both Worlds" mark in Season 2 is impressive. If Orville continues, we could be dealing with spin-offs & a new franchise will be born. I for one, welcome it.
Jake Geiselhart and he said fuck Picard so
"The Measure of Man" was in season 2.
@@piotrd.4850 so was shades of gray
"wash your mouth out with Gordon" is probably the dirtiest thing I have heard on network TV for a while!
Space....The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Orville. Its continuing mission: To continue the original sci-fi adventures inspired by Gene Roddenberry's visions. To seek first contact with new civilizations while having lots of fun. To boldly go where no Star Treks have gone before!
Excellent review. I love The Orville (the show). I also love The Orville (the ship). Gordon is correct: they are, without a doubt, the weirdest ship in the fleet. :D
Actually, the humor (good and bad) happens in real life. Ask a combat vet for some of the weird humor he's heard someone utter in the middle of a hairball of a firefight. In that respect the Orville is closer to real life than you might suspect.
Great review! I'm subscribing on condition you review more Orville episodes.
It's likely I will… eventually. These kinds of videos take a while, and I prefer to wait until I have something noteworthy to say (more than just "This week this happened, and I enjoyed it"). Also - while the algorithm seems to have different ideas - this isn't meant to be just a Star Trek/Orville channel.
Interesting to see that this week's episode focused on galactic politics (and the Moclans), though, wasn't it?
@@Captain_Bong I get the impression that Seth has had a massive story arc planned out for this show from the very beginning. I just hope it keeps getting renewed so we can see it played out. Interesting that the show promotes tolerance of other cultures, but the Moclan episodes always examine just how far that tolerance should extend.
Are you watching The Expanse?
Oh yes. I came to it pretty late, and I've only read the first book so far, but I'm a big fan.
I think "Best Of Both Worlds" is still better.
it's not only Riker's quest to own the big chair, and not only Picard's struggle with Borg consciousness... it's humanity's tale of ingenuity and persistence.
"Resistance is futile!" .... no, it's not.
sure as hell it's damn costly.... but not futile.
I think the most important aspect of Best of both Worlds is that, even isolated from the collective, Locutus remains an ardent member.
Only after being tortured for three days by his well-meaning friends does Picard agree to be restored to his former human self.
And after he is restored, the bridge crew assemble in the captain's ready room to discuss what needs to be done next. All the while the captain sits in his chair, smiles and nods, never saying a word, not even his signature "make it so" at the end.
And after his friends have left, and he is by himself again, he looks sad.
None of his friends ever considered the possibility that he joined the Borg of his own free will. We don't know if the Borg gave him a choice. We do know that his friends did not.
How are the Borg the villains in this story?
he didn't join the collective out of his free will.
he was broken.
that's what scared Picard at the time.... he's a Starfleet captain, and not even his rank, nor his fleet, nor his ship, nor his officers could shield him completely.
the Borg got to him, and that clicked in his mind
@@bcn1gh7h4wk We don't know if he joined voluntarily. We only know that he was abducted against his will by the Borg.
And we also know that being isolated from the collective was not enough to change his mind afterwards.
He only changed his mind when he had no other choice. And even then it took days. He left the collective under duress.
In "I, Hugh", when he was confronted with another Borg drone, he briefly became Locutus again.
in First Contact, he says he knew the Queen wanted him to join willingly, but he fought back
I remember watching The Best of Both Words thinking "wow, that's cool!" But I never I doubted for a moment the outcome.
I remember watching Identity with genuine suspense and, dare I say it, fear.
Excellent video, you deserve more subscribers, I will share with my friends
Rip-off
Orville has drawn in what all of us traditional trekkies love. Spicing in the slap stick humor only makes it mire fun to watch and love. Star Trek got way to dark for a lot of people.
It does have a feel to "The Battle of Sector 001" from Star Trek: First Contact". By it also kinda has a feel from the final space battle of Mass Effect 3.
Edit: But also a feel from the battle of the Hornburg and battle of Minas Tirith when the Rohirim come to the aid of King Theoden and Gondor respectively, from "The Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers" and "The Return Of The King", respectively.
I've read somewhere, that at the end of season 3 Patrick Stewart wanted to leave TNG. Hence the Riker storyline about him hesitating to move up in the ranks and introduction of cmdr Shelby. If Patrick were to leave, 2nd part of Best of Both Worlds would be different. Picard would be Locutus and reappear as a guest star from time to time and Riker a new captain. Even though I'm glad that Picard was spared this fate, I still wonder... There is alternate timeline, where Riker was captain of Enterprise. Where Patrick Stewart as Locutus of Borg lays traps and tries to conquer Alpha Quadrant. Where screenwriters didn't ruin Borg with Borg Queen, because they lacked an archvillain for First Contact movie. The lost oppurtunities! Imagine Ben Sisko having to face Locutus. Or Janeway trying to bargain with him during her show! That would be so cool.
If Riker became captain at that point in time we might have gotten that souped up Enterprise-D from the finale with the third nacelle and super phaser cannon under the saucer instead of it getting unceremoniously destroyed in Generations.
Both are equally outstanding
I actually love discovery and orville
What about Picard?
I love those last words "Don't fuck it up Seth"
"desecrate the canon" --> Haha, I´d rather say "slaughter". Good video!
Thank you for this.
A perfect blend of knowledge, wisdom, and entertainment is difficult but accomplishable.
I like the phrasing throughout. But I chuckled when he said, "to save Ensign popsicle" 7:05
A very solid video man. A nice job, indeed.
Solid analysis but your comparison to SJWs is pretty spotty. MacFarlane is certainly no fan of cancel culture, but his body of work is replete with left-leaning politics.
As for Kaylon motivations, I distinctly remember the primary motivation for their assault being a structural or resource-based limitation on computing power. In popular geopolitical terms, this would be a preemptive war fought over resources combined with a window dressing of an ecclesiastical crusade.
Last line is cute... "don't f#@k it up Seth."
I hope for many many years with the Orville, & yes... moving to HULU sucks. But think of all the shows fans would have paid to stay on the air? I think they gave shown their value, so I support the move, although I'll still binge & wait again for another full season.
Actually the second series of discovery was very good, the introduction of captain pike brought the story together with cannon some people are just to quivknto judge. May it's a fault ofvtodays generation where gratification has to be quick and instant. The say good things come to those who wait.
As for the Orville it's received very good reviews out side the USA. But who believe anything coming out of the USA to day no one I hope as this nation gas shown it's self to without honour without a sole, self obsessed and full itself importance.
Excellent review. Orville really improved in Season 2. They ditched most of the annoying comedy and got serious about story and character development. Glad it's getting a third season. Season 2 had great episodes!
Well done. I thought the moment I saw it that Identity was the episode where The Orville really demonstrated what a terrific show it can be. I too have not watched an episode of STD after the first three of Season One and the first episode of Season Two they dropped onto YT for free. Zero interest in STD, barest of minimal interest in ST Picard. I suspect that will be the story of Picard transformed into a weakling as if that is some kind of higher virtue.
Very good commentary. And you nailed the SJW debate that was clearly intended in this episode. Since many people seem to seek for their education in fantasy movies (hum), I urge everyone to see that episode 🖖
As this is 3 years old I wold love to see a revisit to this now that Strange New Worlds is out as well as The Orville New Horizons. Both new shows are just great!
The fact that a descendant of slaves could write a book about his ancestors, get that book published, and have that book read by millions, and the television show viewed by even more shows that we can change
When the spoof is better than the official entry.
I agree - Star Treks Discovery and Picard are shameful parodies on what once was a great franchise. The Orville IS the new Trek. It's just a shame that Season 3 is still such a long way off.
Faq - there was Wright (Orville and Wilbur) Flyer model on the desk !!!
Awesome Expo!
Intrerview to the Orville producer and writer Brannon Braga
ruclips.net/video/mGGMj4vrt1E/видео.html
"....Its probably Mister"
😂😂😂😂
I expected with a comparison of some kind between an episode of ST:TNG and one from The Orville. I could only bare 43 seconds of what I found.
Well, it's called an introduction.
Lol the Kallon are NPCs. The memes to come are going to be epic.
Thanks for the comparison and insightful comments. But I could have done without the F-Bombs in your commentary.
OK, fine... so the Orville is the true successor to the ST Universe. But can we please put a moratorium on any more of Gordon's 'musical abilities' (singing and sci-fi shows, never a good mix)! ;-p
14:52 yeah you could watch Voyager, it used to be my favorite when I was a kid/adolescent. But seriously...it hasn't aged well...or I aged and finally saw the flaws.
Actually you might want to research the battle report of The Battle Of Wolf 359.
There was actually 6 Klingon Warships that where destroyed at The Battle Wolf 359.
I can only assume that was in a comic or something. Hanson mentions the Klingons "sending warships", but we never hear any more about them, and there are no Klingon ships shown among the wreckage. Also, Memory Alpha lists the belligerents as the Federation and the Borg.
@@Captain_Bong Yeah most books/comics are not considered canon.
Tres proffessional belle qualité beaucoup de travail...bravoooooooooooooo
When the hell is this show going to appear on Netflix or Amazon Prime? I am so tired of the current way the industry works, with all these exclusives and licensing issues, requiring you to own just the right thing, or pay through the nose for extras. Babylon 5 is still MIA, for example, and that show in particular would be very, very educational in the current political climate. "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" alone should be required reading for every silly bloody student who attempts to rewrite history:
ruclips.net/video/DrPe80sxlm4/видео.html
It's there: www.amazon.com/Season-1-Catchup/dp/B07L2B52R6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=orville&qid=1560072545&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Babylon 5 on DVD:
www.amazon.com/Babylon-Complete-Collection-Bonus-Crusade/dp/B00COTLTUA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=babylon+5&qid=1560072664&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A3436RDDSSQ8TZ
In my opinion Identity is better because, as good as the BoBW is, the ending doesn't stick the landing. Put the Borg to sleep? Too dumb for me. STNG made the Borg a little too indestructible and presented the writers with the problem of how to defeat them. As formidable as the Kaylon are, they aren't indestructible, always adapting to new weapons. The ending is believable and very well done.
lmao what a closing line :D
Well Izack and Picard are both bald headed lol
Dr. Finn on DS9 14:51 !!!!
Pour one out for that nameless redshirt
wooooooow picard is actually very good
Good one :)
10 out of 10!
i love both, but as far as comparing these two, "Family" pushes Trek above Identity.
i see BoBW as a 3 parter.
4:35 the traditional redshirt...
It's actually Orange.
Rather ironic that The Orville out Star Treks Star Trek! :)
The orville may be the only good show left. I've been bored for a year waiting for the new season.
I'd recommend The Expanse and The Boys, if you haven't seen those already. But that's probably about it.
@@Captain_Bong Not heard of "The Boys", so thanks, but "The Expanse"...I love it!
Btw, in not too long DS9 is going to be released (on 1337x.to) with a visual quality that's going to look so much better than the original one.
The Orville > Any Post 2009 Star Trek Incarnation ...the former is Star Trek minus the name and the latter is Star Trek in name only. Go figure.
Official Star Trek Incarnation! Star Trek Continues is far better than discovery & picard.
sorry was that too bland. I did try to express myself.
Hehe I’m pretty sure the comparison to sjw’s wasn’t meant to demonize the kaylon rather giving them a valid point but taking it too far but it’s hard to argue against something that is a admittedly a good point but taken too far.
ever been to 'Vegas?
So you can have current Star Trek or a parody of 90's Next Generation written and starring a guy who so desperately wants to be on Picard's Enterprise. FFS Seth just direct a full length SNG feature film using the whole cast and do Sci-Fi fans the world over a huge favor.
So,,is discovery worth watching, ?
I'm no longer the guy to ask (you could try Doomcock or Midnight's Edge), but from the sound of things, it still depends on your politics and how much you care about Star Trek canon. If it's any more than "not at all", you might have a problem!
We don't talk about discovery. It doesnt exist. For many reasons.
While I love The Orville... it's not Star Trek... They are both very different and both very good. Just like the Stargate series was different and also good... just like the Star Wars Prequel trilogy was good but not as good as the original trilogy... and the sequel trilogy is not as good as the other two... but it's still good... except for The Last Jedi... thats just garbage! And while I think Star Trek Discovery did have a rocky start... it has gotten better. Is it the best of Star Trek...? no... but it's still good. And you did say you only watched the first 3 episodes so I can't say your opinion counts.
I dunno - *technically* it's not Star Trek, of course, but there are a lot of similarities. The "feel" is a little different, though, I'll grant you.
And fair point on STD: I can only go by what others are saying now. It's not entirely inconceivable that if I gave it another go I'd find a *few* more things to enjoy… but life's too short, and they had their chance.
@@Captain_Bong give it another chance... You won't regret it.
which is better.... The Expanse !!!!!!
I liked identity better
Please stop with the Discovery bashing it's so pretty and juvenile.
STD is petty and juvenile. Fall of the litter... :P
It seems that every RUclipsr that wants you to like Orville has to bash Discovery at the same time. In spite of the horrible way the main arc in Disco was set up (the main character assaults the captain and mutinies) the show is great, and the Orville is great; they're just very different.
i like identity better,villian makes more sense
I like the Orville, but to be honest you guys overhype it, for one thing Seth McFarlane is the weakest part of the cast, you can really see he is not primarily a dramatic actor. He is bad, and let's be honest about it, the other cast act circles around him. He really should have cast someone else as the Captain and stuck behind the scenes. And Lamar always seems like he's about to burst into laughter ( he isn't very good either, but he isn't the captain). That being said TNG wasn't perfect, but I loved it. But all this shitting on Discovery is silly. They're both good shows, just different.
I disagree, obviously! Seth may not be a "dramatic actor" first and foremost, but that doesn't mean he lacks range, and I thought he did an excellent job in the weightier moments here (particularly in the "punishment" scene). J Lee also. Light-hearted guys sometimes get caught up in some serious s*** too, you know!
As for Discovery, it's conceivable the show has transformed into something entirely different from what I saw back in 2017, but that's not what I've been hearing, and to me, the fact that they've brought in Pike, Spock and the Enterprise doesn't suggest success. But if you like it, then you like it. We could perhaps agree on Saru at least. I liked Saru.
its sad this show is never going to get more seasons
you do know data and tasha yar were boyfriend and girlfriend.
That's one way of putting it…
Not really. They had a one night drunken hook up. Nothing more. Then again had Crosby not quit in season one........who I ows what may have happened.
I will probably agree with most of the video, but the part with progressive nonsense rubbed me a little the wrong way.
Not saying you can't vouch your political opinion, I am just tired of this Anti SJW vs SJW crap. It really is the dumbest thing of the 21st century.
Anyway, on to the video. Orville needs more attention.
Edit: After finishing the video and commenting a few times, I liked the video but obviously my above comment stands.
Your perogative to talk about it, I dont think it is an issue that matters compared to other political issues, or how politics and fiction can be inseperable or how it can be ignored whatever etc etc you get my point.
My point is that it is sort of beating a dead horse.
Anyway, some actual constructive criticism/comments
@10:10 - Admiral Halsey deserves an Oscar. No? Too far? Okay.
Well, it is important to note that he is an admiral (an actually competent one compared to the ones we see in Star Trek in general) and this sudden recall helped the tension. You touched it briefly, but you could have explored how the Union was more vaguely at this point an exploration fleet rather then a military one (see Sanctuary and how this effects Union politics when the issue of weapons splits the union in 2.)
@12:00ish - I love this part of the video. i dont need a reason. I just like it.
A reason? Fine.
I am just getting into Star Trek (thank Orville for that one), so I am not quite familiar with it like the back of my hand. But Sisko god damn it is my favorite star trek captain. The Battle of Worf 359 reminded the audience how much of a blow it was. It is hard to do when reading a history book. You made comparisons to the Battle of Waterloo and the Battle of Earth. Something I also agree with as the Battle of Waterloo looked early on to be a victory for the French. (I mean, the French were THE land power of Europe in the 1800s.)
13:45- I am a sci fi writer in my spare time. The idea of cybernetic implants on a unwilling species, to avoid the philisophy 101 is unethical. But what I love about the borg is how this is shot in black set design and green/no lighting. It feels alien. I like the Kaylon,but sometimes I look at those LED lights and think that they are not dangerous (then again the season finale with flying heads is probably a good enough reason to fear them on the surface.)
15:10 - I am unsure if this point is...fair? I agree with it though. But episodic series tend to have the disadvantage of disposable villains (See power rangers or Super Sentai for more information.)
I dont like it, mostly because I like villains that are either cosmic evils (Dark One, Sauron, Cthulu) or apathetic assholes (Kaylon, Borg, etc)
I would argue that in a static world of Star Trek, Orville is definitely more fluid but it comes at the cost that we don't quite know the capacity of the other powers. We just know the Krill and Kaylon are threats.
Hey, kudos to Seth because I personally prefer this. Unlike Star Trek, which disposed of the Dominion and Borg as serious threats cuz we cant have nice things, the Orville is aware that a threat just doesnt disappear over night. In fact, they may come back worse then ever; with an alliance, or new technology, or just more people.
I liked the latter half of the video obviously more, mostly because the first half (minus the SJW stuff) is a little vague and rarely explored. You seem to make a point and refuse to back it up. However beyond minute 9 this shifts to comparisons and backing up your points, something that is more nuanced and fun to watch.
Good video, but it could use more polish. And if you use history in the video. if you are at least going to bring up politics, either bring up more political issues (What is your stance on regulation? Unions? Trade?), technological issues (Stance on AI? Warp Drive consequences?) etc
I would appreciate that more then just "lul sjws suck."
I get I am boiling it down to simplicity and I understand it may appear as unfair critique, but at the very least know the video was...Uhh
Well, good. Just could use more polish.
Right wing star trek fans are amazing...hahahaha
Im not responsible for slavery😂😂
Star Trek Discovery is actually pretty good, might want to give it another go
I have to say, this video could have done without the whole 'SJW' bashing. Think about this, the aspects you described could just as easily be applied to... racists, sexists, hyper-nationalists, etc. It's just general bigotry and I think the fact that you glommed onto 'SJWs' says more about you then that movement. I didn't see this because I'm not constantly looking for SJW's under the bed.
Otherwise, it was a pretty interesting video, and I am also loving The Orville.
You're right - the Kaylon could have been a comment on any form of unreasonable discrimination - but for me, the title and the use of Roots (i.e. "these guys were responsible for slavery") make SJWs the most likely target/source of inspiration. As I said, though, this is only a possible interpretation. I'm glad you enjoyed the vid otherwise.
@@Captain_Bong Personally I think your reading into it. Roots is a very well known book about a really dark period of human history. Not to mention that slavery is going to be pertinent to almost any robotic 'species'.
I also do not look for S.J.W.s under my bed, I just assume that the little commies are there.
Roots is relevant cuz the kaylons were slave to organics...u wanted to bring the white male ego into it is your doin only....
Always said sttng is better watched at 2X speed. As far as"best of both worlds" the ep was good but it was a big let-down when they put us, I mean the borg to sleep
I do like Discovery, although, I'm not at all keen to listen to the virtue signalling in near all the shows.
You bigots have to really get off this SJW bull, it makes things far too political and shows just how limited a person it.
>Hollywood crams SJW crap into countless films/shows
>Some people point this out
>"You're making things political!"; "You're bigots!"
Whatever you say, sir. As it happens, in most of my videos (I can't help that the algorithm only smiles on some of them, sometimes) SJWs and their notions aren't mentioned at all, because they aren't relevant to those videos. And where I do mention them, they're hardly the sole focus. But whatever.
I'm done responding to "You need to stop talking about SJWs because I say so" comments, for the time being at least!
@@Captain_Bong >who cares? I dont care when I read Ayn Rand's or Goodkinds views in their novels. I am not a libertarian. Or worse yet how military sci fi is all military muscle flexing. So what? I still like it. And if you dont like it because of the politics, you either are not that open minded or biased.
>And those some people probably like me stopped caring about this whole dumb issue. What is the actual debate here? Is it some Anti SJW flexing or the debate of artificial intelligence appearing apathetic/decisive on its racist views? I assume it is the former, but you are pushing the former. The two are vaguely connected, but only vaguely so.
>Okay I dont agree with the bigot comment, but as for me, while I can watch the video, filtering out this issue for me is really hard. Because it is the lowest level of political discourse you can have. It isnt economics or foreign policy. The consequences of SJWs 'winning' is practically going to be far less of an impact then say...Economic Policy of the Union which is quasi socialist/limited post scarcity.
I can ignore it, but considering you have to point it for some reason makes me inclined to believe you cant just ignore even forced politics because you 'disagree' with it. That is fine.
But dont come crying to me if you see politics you dont like in season 3 and then complain about how SJWs are coming to take over hollywood because A. it doesnt matter. B. it is hypocrisy.
Critical thinking seems to be lost to the left and right recently, so maybe I should just tune out politics totally.
Oh wait, I read science fiction novels. Those are practically political propoganda that sounds nice.
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooob
Sjw nonsense? While I too have no love for descovery and no faith in the new Picard show. Trek has always been proudly "SJW"
Meh… I disagree. The Federation was kind of a lefty utopia, but it was still based on respect for the individual, regardless of their race or gender or whatever, to the point where "race" and "gender" weren't even issues. Even when it was commenting directly on the bigotry of the past, as in Far Beyond the Stars, it was never as simple as "white man bad". Can you imagine what a "nu Trek" version of Far Beyond the Stars would look like?
ST was SJ, without W, and done right. Until apprentice of Darth Mickey, Jar Jar Abrams, took charge...
Hollywood Bob the ultimate goal of liberals is for it to be a non issue. There are stupid people on both sides. Anybody who boils down the complexity of society to one group or one factor creating all the problems is an idiot.
Classic Star Trek, along with The Orville, acts as a good example of the difference between Social Justice Activists and Social Justice Warriors. Both despise things like racism, sexism and homophobia, among other things, but SJA’s (to call them) only seek to undo the discriminatory behaviors and guidelines, whereas SJW’s believe that entire classifications of people are inherently wicked. The prime examples are that all men think women should work solely in the kitchen and bedroom, and that all white people wish that slavery would come back; yes there are plenty of people in both classifications that are that way, but nowadays this is about one-percent-of-one-percent.
Orville IS NOT STAR TREK it is an abomination of STAR TREK
Star Trek is SJW TV though.
I know that every episode being chocked full of Leftist, SJW content really turned me off and I didn’t buy the second season right away. But, I saw some trailers for the second season and they seemed to have toned it down so I got the second season and they actually had toned it down a little. I’m hoping that after they move to Hulu they won’t be under such pressure from the left leaning Heads of Hollywood and they can get down to some serious writing instead of cow towing to the Liberal Powers That Be.
I refuse to watch this show or discovery
You know what? I would've given your videos a shot, if it weren't for lame-ass anti-SJW-blahblah within the first two minutes.
This "SJWs under the bed" witchunt is getting rather tiresome now!
The reviewer has a clear and creepy fetish for sjws
…says the guy living in San Francisco.
@@Captain_Bong how precisely is your comment a meaningful response? It adds nothing useful, nor any degree of insight. I guess the blather is just the Hollywood effect. Shrug
Remember the days when discussions and forums were purely about Sci-fi without resorting to name calling and political witchunts?
Another Orville rules Discovery sucks!
Up yours
Even SETH himself admits there is room for both shows
You should check out Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad from s1 and If Memory Serves from S2
Total rubbish. Star Trek is vastly superior
Not anymore
What boring hogwash.