A new interview with Saturn hardware designer Hideki Sato goes into great detail about Saturn's time line and complexity. It sheds light on how and why Saturn ended up the way it did. It does render some details in this video in need of revision, while supporting others fully. I recommend you read it. On the MC68020 and why the SH was chosen: Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 10-11 Motorola had the MC68020, the successor to the MC68000. It was a strong-selling 32-bit CISC microprocessor. Sega of America, who were developing their own 16-bit Genesis games, wanted to use the MC68020 in the Saturn. That would have allowed for essentially updated versions of the current types of game software, and the development libraries could easily be done. They wanted to go for forward compatibility. However, from my viewpoint, this lacked the necessary “jump” in technology. I thought that it might be okay to move forward with such a continuation of the current technology, but all the same, I felt we needed to move in a new direction, to change things up. Compared with the 16-bit generation, we needed to move away from mask ROMs, from solid-state memory, which was too expensive. CD-ROMs had become cheap, but the technology was no longer new. The PC Engine had already been using it for years. We needed something more. At the time, Hitachi happened to be developing the SH processor. After seeing the specs, I was impressed by its high performance. I decided to go with it, even though it was still in development (this was a very rash move for me). The SH is a RISC (Reduced Instruction) CPU, and at that time, NEC was also developing one, the V Series. I felt that Hitachi’s SH was good, so I went with that. On how the Saturn design changed in response to the PlayStation: Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 13-14 The Saturn actually had just one CPU at the beginning. Then Sony appeared with its polygon-based PlayStation. When I was first designing the Saturn architecture, I was focused on sprite graphics, which had been the primary graphics up to that point. So I decided to go with polygons (due to the PlayStation). However, there weren’t any people at Sega who knew how to develop such software. Of course, we had Yu Suzuki in the arcade department, but I couldn’t just drag him off to the console department. He was developing titles like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing. The expertise of all of the developers we had was in sprite graphics, so there seemed no choice but to go with sprites. Nevertheless, I knew we needed polygons. Using various tricks, adding a geometry engine and so on, I changed everything. In the end, just like the PlayStation, we had pseudo-polygons built on a sprite base. I felt no choice but to design a sprite-based architecture. Having said that, after some significant progress, pseudo-polygons did represent a “jump” in graphics in a certain way. There was a distinction of sorts. The processor was very powerful and could support 4,000, even 5,000 sprites, and I thought we could make the graphics work using a sprite engine after adding the Yamaha and such. It seemed like we were finally nearing completion. Then, the final PlayStation was revealed. It supported 300,000 polygons. Well, that was ultimately a bunch of lies, but… When you compared the Saturn with the PlayStation, we were completely missing something. The response that I chose was to add another SH processor, so we ended up with two SH-2s. By chance, the SH supported two-way cascaded data transfer. You could add a second processor and connect them in a cascade and get multi-CPU performance. When you get to about the PlayStation 3, multi-processors had become common, but the Saturn was the first home console to use multi-processors. So I added a second SH-2, but I felt that the ‘impact’ was still weak. Well, the SH-2 is a 32-bit processor, and we had two of them, so we could call the Saturn a 64-bit machine. It’s a dirty way of getting to 64-bits. But we revealed the CD-ROM-based Saturn using 64-bits as our sales point. On the difficulties of developing for the Saturn: Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 14-15 At the beginning, there was no compiler. You had to program the SH in assembly. The people at Sega were good at assembly. That’s all they had been using on the MC68000. C, C++ were too slow to use. However, third parties struggled with programming the SH in assembly, and there were two of the CPUs along with a CD-ROM. We asked third parties to make games, but without development libraries, they couldn’t do anything. They’d take a week and barely even be able to get something to display on the screen, let alone be able to start making a game. Our third party support was awful. The hardware was incredibly difficult to use. However, if you worked with it a bit, you could get a ton of sprites, with scaling and rotation and so on. On Sony’s support for third party developers: Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 page 16 Sony was good at supporting PlayStation third party developers. Why? Sony didn’t have a development department. They didn’t have a software department. What do you do if you don’t have a software department? You ask somebody else. Sony went to Namco, to Taito, to Konami. They said that they were putting together a game console called the PlayStation, and they invited these companies to develop games for it. Sony exerted all its efforts on supporting third parties and enhancing their collective powers. Sony CEO Norio Ohga himself went to talk to the third parties. From their perspective, it was a big deal for Ohga to come and ask this. From Namco’s viewpoint, if they put out Tekken, they could compete evenly with Sega’s Virtua Fighter. The number one game in the PlayStation world was Ridge Racer. And Konami being Konami, they had their typical games. It’s obvious that the PlayStation had the better games. No matter how much effort Sega put in on its own, it wasn’t going to be enough. So Sony went to Namco, Taito, Konami, and others, and they said here are the specs, and don’t worry, there aren’t two CPUs or anything difficult like that. They said the PlayStation will be easy to develop for, and here are all the development libraries we’ll put out. Sony had a very easy-to-use SKD (Software Development Kit). And Ohga himself was making these offers, and the third parties were told they could port all of their own titles, and so on. With all of that, it certainly seemed like the PlayStation was better. On Sega’s losses associated with the Saturn and their response: Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 16-17 So we released the Saturn in 1994, and as I said before, there were two SH-2s. In addition, memory was expensive at this time, and we were using a large amount, so costs were very high. For each Saturn sold, we lost about 10,000 yen ($100). That’s how the hardware business works. But the goal was to recoup the losses from software royalties. If there are lots of third parties, lots of games sold, and we get 2,000 yen for each, it’s possible. However, if software sales are weak, and for each console sold, we’re ultimately losing 5,000 - 6,000 yen, what’s going to happen from the business perspective? We’re going to stop selling consoles. This later became a huge problem.
Sega Lord X Nothing new actually - the entire design was slapped together at the last moment, without considering costs and ease of software development. "I couldn't just pull Suzuki away..." bullshit - he could and that would probably save the company in the long run. Suzuki singlehandedly brought 3d to the arcades, he should have at least been brought on as a technical advisor - "don't do that, aim for this" would have sufficed, he wouldn't have to design the hardware like he did with the arcades. The guy blatantly states that key people on his team (including himself) had no idea how to develop 3d games, and he still chose to keep quiet, probably in order to keep his job.
Your assumption about the dual processors is also wrong based on this article. www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?33527-The-Story-of-the-Hitachi-SH-2-and-the-Sega-Saturn
Cool thanks. It makes sense that even if you have powerful hardware, if the company doesn't provide the proper dev libraries, and expects people to code in assembly language, dev time will increase and fewer companies will want to develop for it. The question is why didn't Sega provide the SDK for its machine? Also, FWIW, the dreamcast showed Sega could still make great hardware, and if they had waited about a year, increased the specs, I think it could have competed with the PS2/Xbox.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei was a perfect example of what the Saturn was capable of. Everything people claimed the Saturn couldn't do, was showcased in plain view from the moment the title screen pops up. Amazing soundtrack, fluid game play with so much detail. I'll never give up my Saturn. 😁
THANK YOU! Misinformation has plagued Saturn discussion for far too long! Also, here's a fun thing to note: Virtua Fighter 2 is so high resolution that on real CRTs and even in this video, the dithered meshes are almost indistinguishable from true transparency.
Crap? Oh please. If you're worried about incense burners instead of PERFECT gameplay, you're in the wrong place. Sad how people STILL crap on Sega after all these years......really sad!
Virtua Fighter 2 was done on a Model 2 arcade board. This was bleeding edge polygon tech at the time. No console in that era could have done it 100%. Saturn port ran at 60fps and the highest resolution of any console game that year. That's far from crap.
I think what many people don't realise is that the SH2 chips were specifically designed to work as a pair in Master / Slave mode. They even have to have a specific pin tied high or low, to tell them which mode to run in, so it definitely wasn't an afterthought. The exact same chips were used in the 32x, and while they have Sega-specific part numbers, they really are just off-the-shelf Hitachi SH2 CPUs. (I just found a source for the chips, and received a pair of them a few days ago.) The same chips have been used in countless other devices before and since the Saturn, such as printers, scanners, routers / switches, telecoms, white goods etc., so there's nothing custom about the CPUs specifically. Another interesting thing is that the 32x only uses 16-bits of the 32-bit data bus on the SH2s, while the Saturn uses the full 32-bit bus width. It's probably not a huge deal in reality, and only one SH2 can access the bus at a time anyway, but it does make me wonder what improvement it could have made to the 32x. The Saturn (and PlayStation) kind of passed me by in the 90s, but I really appreciate both consoles now. Well done on the vid. Always good to see well-researched retro vids with some good hardware details. :)
Super video!! Very informative and well put together!! Did a great job separating fact from fiction! I NEVER regretted getting a Saturn and once I found the glory of import gaming on the machine, it quickly become one of my favorite and beloved consoles!!
I think most people who look at Saturn with a more objective view would see a machine worth owning. The echo chamber of the internet has hid its true worth long enough.
This is the kind of video the retrogaming community has been needing for a long time. Retrospectively, I think that the arcade scene had globally started its decline during the mid-90's for many reasons eventhough this was not noticeable everywhere at the time. It probably was not in Japan. SEGA suffered a lot from being an arcade-focused company, in the long run.
Awesome video. To this day, the Sega Saturn is my favorite system, not to mention it had possibly the best controller ever made. I got it on launch and never regretted a second. I still have the thing plugged up to my old tube TV and play it every now and again. I just wish it was more popular in the US, so it could have had more releases. I am glad it at least did well in Japan.
to this day I love how well spoken you are lol. I wish I would have followed the saturn as I was growing up since I went with the PS1, and mind you I still don't regret it. Glad I at least realized what the saturn's power is today and getting to show my friend's the games for it still surprise em is what makes it even better.
@@SegaLordX I'd love to see a review of yours of Irreel, a homebrew game that recreates Unreal using Sat real hardware. Many of the myths regarding the Saturn are destroyed in there.
Outstanding video! I'm so happy to see a video on Sega history based on facts and not rumors and revisionism, and even more happy that the name "Tom Kalinske" wasn't mentioned once! That one book from him has spawned so many half-truths; it's fantastic to see you simply representing the machine as it is without embellishment. Kudos!
This'll never happen but I sincerely hope that, one day, we'll get a Saturn Collection from Sega. There were a ton of great exclusives on Saturn that you just couldn't find anywhere else and for those to go mostly unplayed is a travesty.
It's not gonna be easy. All that Saturn code can only be run through emulation because Sega will likely not be able to get Sh-2 CPUs, and Saturn emulation is notoriously hard. Even after almost 30 years since the Saturn came out, emulation has not been going too well compared to many other systems.
Wow! This video is excellent, dude! Bringing in the facts and researched information is exactly what we need more of on the internet! Im amazed at how much rumours, misconceptions and common lack of knowledge can become "fact" online 😮. Even I never questioned the "3D as an after thought" rumour before watching this video as that is probably one of the most common misconceptions surrounding the Sega Saturn. I feel enlightened! Well done! Keep up the high quality, SLX! 🖒🖒
Thanks, Andrew. It's easy to believe something if you hear it enough times. Many before me have tried to spread the truth, so I just wanted to add my voice to that chorus.
You have to remember that assembly language was more or less the norm for most games in the 80s and early 90s, it was often the only way to get otherwise very primitive machines to produce decent results . Problem was that by the mid 90s, games were getting bigger and thus assembly language was very time consuming. That said to my knowledge, many late PS1 games were also coded in assembly in order to get every bit of power out of the system. The VDP1 also was more or less a sprite pusher, and its rendering method was quite wasteful. The main advantage the PS had was really its rendering speed, it was blazing fast at rendering polygons at the time (more than any home system at the time, not as good as model 2 or Nacmo 22 though). Most 3rd party games utilized this and built games around the PS. As you said , a good Saturn game needed to make good use of VDP2 to save VDP1's more limited capability, and of course most devs never bothered much . Alot of devs also went with Sony for the simple reason that they wanted to get away from Nintendo and Sega, both companies had develped a reputation for being a bit douchy with odd business practices (Nintendo more so) , and Sony were the first to pull things off well, in that they produced a capable machine that was easy to work with , and didn't cost a fortune (main flaws of the Jaguar and 3DO), they also had great marketing (something NEC couldnt do well with the TG16)
I wouldn't call VDP1 wasteful, as it was designed to compete with Jaguar and 3DO, so it had the performance to compete in that market, well. Sega's designs at the time were to have a machine that would do 2D and 3D well(as its arcade machines covered), but they simply weren't ready for how much Sony would push home technology. Not just in speed or feature set, but in just how easy it was to get those things working. Their thinking as an arcade manufacturer worked against them here a bit, as their faith in their internal teams took precedent over their desire to help 3rd parties.
Well the Saturn's ability to render polygons was limited by its own sprite engine and that came with its own set of problems (difficulty in rendering large polygons for instance). Its worth mentioning that back then , there was no standard for 3D rendering, certainly not for a home system or computer . Im sure you will recall the large amounts of early 3D accelerators out at the time , all of which were using different, custom APIs and odd ways to render polygons (as opposed to today where Nvidia and AMD more or less do the same thing). In that sense Sega werent any more guilty of overusing custom hardware than anyone else. I also think Sega wanted good 2D capabilties due to the fact that in 1994 , there was still a debate whether the industry would go to 3D . Its easy to mock that debate now obviously, but in 94 there was alot of genuine skepticism over 3D on anything other than graphics workstations and very high end arcades. Interestingly the Jaguar's Tom & Jerry chips were quite fast , the issue for them was the system they sat in . It had less RAM than even the 3DO and didn't really have a main CPU (other than a 68000 used for system management , which may as well have been pulled out of some old Atari ST or a Mega Drive)
the Saturn's RAM cart is just normal RAM thats added to the system , you could really use it for whatever you wanted. I think the RAM cart was probably planned pretty early at Sega, given the fact that the ST-V arcade board Sega was using, was just a Saturn with extra RAM (games like Die Hard Arcade, Columns 97 , Athlete Kings used that board). In the end some STV games did use the RAM cart (Astra Superstars , Groove on Fight) , wheres Sega's ports didn't.
They actually did.....sort of. Nvidia's first graphics card, the NV1 in 1995 was actually based on Saturn tech (with Sega's involvement), and even came bundled with a Saturn controller (it had controller boards on a seperate blanking plate you attached to the card) and enhanced ports fo games like Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter, it also had onboard sound. Problem was the card was incompatible with the then new DirectX and the card ended up being stomped on by the 3DFX Voodoo like alot of other cards at the time. By 97 they released the Riva128 which was more of a standard 3D accelerator.
Awesome video. The truth needs to be heard more often with regards to the saturns development. It's really frustrating to see saturn hardware videos over and over again putting out misinformation about the machine being intended as a 2d powerhouse and its 3d almost an afterthought, or just put there for good measure. Even without the VDP2 in the picture the saturn still easily outguns 3do and jaguar by a good margin. Take the Playstation out from history and people would be looking back at the saturn as having 3d ahead of its time for a console. Relative to what the N64 brought to the table almost two years later with its own 3d shortcomings, the saturn could still hold its own, and in all honesty had the playstation never come to fruition, sega and nintendo would have had a very tight battle for that generations console king.
A very informative video. Many thanks for the tech info too. I have finally acquired a Model 2 Saturn with ten games for a great price. It need a refurb and a good clean though. Im looking forward to Playing Resident Evil, Tomb Raider and Powerslave/Exhumed again.
Man, so many new informations about the Saturn. To think that everything i ever geard about this console was actually wrong... thanks for making this video, the Sega Saturn was my very first console. Also, thanks for showing so many cool games and they names.
I personnaly love the Sega Saturn's esthetics in terms of graphics. It looks more to me like an artistic movement than software limitation issues. These graphics are sybolic of their time. I know it's juste me, but when I see these graphics, I see an epoch of promises, the next step of 3D rendering and a realization of what would come in the future and of all the progress that still had to be made. It was magical in a way. Modern days of gaming are less enchanting than what we had back in the 32/64 bits era. Future looked better in the past.
I hope someday enough documentation about the Saturn is known that homebrews and ports will become available. One of the most interesting systems ever released.
Sega Rally was not total shit on the Saturn. The big differences between the arcade game and the Saturn version was the resolution and 30fps vs. 60fps. It was a pretty accurate conversion. I've probably played it more than any racing game, on any console.
The original Ridge Racer sucked. I've owned and sold the game twice, and it was nothing more than a glorified tech demo at best. I didn't care for the series until RR Type4. The draw distance in Sega Rally Championship is just fine, and the car physics blow away every racer on the PlayStation, including Gran Turismo 2. ruclips.net/video/iroy7m5jQss/видео.html
Great video. outstanding. Thank you for explaining that the Saturn wasn't the literal last second thrown together processor frankensaturn. As you said, Sega knew what they were doing having experience with complex multi-processor arcade machines. You said it best, it was The Saturn's curse but largest blessing at the same time. Sega internally had tons of experience, tools, personnel and confidence to Exploit the Saturn's power. unfortunately third parties struggled thereby taking easier routes. people today see that meshing is ugly but back then in standard resolution and on crt tv's, meshing wasn't as apparent. but with todays hi res tv's, it becomes more noticeable. There is a video on RUclips that shows that Sega was working on a VF3 for the Saturn. it would have pushed the system pretty hard but would have been mindblowing. I wish Shenmu would have come out on it as well. I wonder if the ps1 could have done Shenmu as well as the Saturn? The Saturn is my favorite Retro system, perhaps of all time. its mystique, power and under utilzed features make it a very interesting system to study and enjoy.
+leadbones did you not just watch the video? or are you just reading comments. the general belief amongst videogamers is that Sega totally panicked and threw in a bunch of processors. that isn't so much the case. Sega Lord X just said in this video that Sega had plenty of experience with complex multi processor boards. The Saturn is based in a multi-processor arcade board. multi processors had been planned since 93' for the Saturn. Sega was taking a risk and was using its experience with multi processors to outshine the PS1. It didn't work as planned. They did add another video chip at the last minute in panic over the PS1. The Saturn was an unorganized mess to Sega at all. the problem was around third parties not having that multi-processor experience that Sega had. third party conversions or games suffered as a result but in house games that were properly developed, took advantage of the systems power. PD2, VF2 are great examples. yes, Segas launch games were rushed, and it showed.
Many people get tricked about VF3 on the Saturn. The awful pictures floating around the internet and that make it into discussions and videos about VF3 on the Saturn. Are NOT from a Saturn port. They look awful because they are from an old work in progress Model 3 emulator. If any proof was needed. Just look at the amount of polygons on characters faces. It's way way too many to be from a Saturn version.
Getting a second Saturn as a backup! I'm in the UK so will get a model 1 as I already have a model 2 with a region free mod. I think the model 1 just looks more next gen
The Saturn is one of those machines that I never could get myself to purchase. I’ve had multiple opportunities to get small collections over the years. I am not much of a 2d fighter game person and that was what most of those collections had. There are times when I watch videos like the ones you produce and I think, ‘Man, I shoulda got a Saturn’. Great vid.
Let me say this; if you have never given some of the Saturn's RPG's and adventure games their due, the system is worth owning just for them. Start with Dragon Force and you'll never look back.
Jeremy Cline Yeah, I’ve checked around. I just don’t have any extra cash for it. Maybe if I could sell some of my other stuff, I’d consider it. Thanks for the info!
Very informative video. One thing people forget is that by 97 Sega had created tools which made programming for the system much easier, but Sega had already done a lot to damage themselves by that point.
Absolutely on point with this video. I was never more disappointed with the execution and reception of a system than I was with the Sega Saturn. Even to this day I love this system and wish it had more time to mature. Dreamcast was great to but I was more prepared for that ones failure. Saturn was totally unexpected.
I was shocked, myself. I just didn't understand how people were dismissing the Saturn. I was an arcade guy, though, so the Saturn was virtually tailored to my tastes.
I had Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn and it was truly impressive. Showed that the Saturn had lots of potential and power that was only used by a few talented developers.
Rap Lawyer Digital Foundry has a nice comparison video on that topic. I just watched it a few days ago. Sega Lord X got Saturn stuck in my brain the last couple of weeks. The PS1 version looks poor. N64 had stuff going for it, though the video presenter seemed to prefer tje Saturn version.
This game is ported by a company called Lobotomy Software. Quite different comment from their developer. One developer Ezra Dreisbach said PSX is much faster than Saturn in graphic rendering. Another developer Brian McNeely said PlayStation engine didn’t allow to display quite as many polygons on screen.
Michel DC The developers of the Saturn Doom actually had an amazing port that took full advantage of Saturn hardware running at 60 fps. It would've been the very best port up till then. However, Carmack himself came in late into the development and didn't like how the Saturn VDPs did textures, which resulted in shimmering. He made the devs redo the game, using the more standard texturing like the other ports, which resulted in rushed, barely playable mess that was released. Real shame. Carmack basically ruined Saturn Doom. :(
This is the best video on the Saturn I’ve seen. You continue to impress me and make interesting and well done videos. You have become one of my favorite channels. I binge watch your videos on tour all the time and love that someone else loves the Saturn as much as I do! This video surprised even me with a few points. Keep up the great work 💪🏾
Only had my first Saturn about a year. (thanks to this and the old channel!) games are great. Love that directional pad on the controllers. Great info as always. This is still the best channel for the Saturn on RUclips period
Hey man,glad to see you back,when your channel went down I was disappointed because I was getting into the Saturn very hard,and was enjoying your videos
thank you as a fellow Saturn owner. Even back then, when people say it cant do transparencies, I'd show then Cupido's stage in Toshinden, the entire arena is transparent polygons.
Very good analysis. Clears up a lot of misconceptions about the hardware and gives great insight into how Sega anticipated it working. If the PlayStation had not been so damn easy to develop for in C, we no doubt would have received a lot more capable titles for the Saturn.
You have to hand it to Sony. They came in with power, speed, ease of use, and a plan for 3rd parties. They ripped the industry away from the titans, and you have to respect it.
It was and is a awesome piece of hardware,, still love it and play it all the time. Love your videos brother!! Good to see that I’m not alone in my obsession with anything sega!!!! Keep em coming
I loved my Saturn.. I was like a treasure hunt for games at time of release... My brother was playing Final Fantasy 7, Tekken, and Einhander... And I was playing Panzer Dragoon Saga, Radiant Silvergun, and the great Sega and Capcom fighting games... I also, have many great memories of playing Decathlete and Winter Heat... Good times...
One of my favorite consoles ever and turns out to be the very first console I ever got as a kid. I don't have the same Saturn I got as a kid I've got a model 2 now that I bought at this used game store but I really enjoy firing that thing up and enjoying some classic Saturn gaming.
Long live the Saturn. I never had one growing up but always wanted one. Now, as an adult i have 3 of them and am now enjoying the library especially the Jp games.
I learned a lot! Really like this style of video, and I hope I find more of them not only in your backlog, but on my subscribed feed when you release more videos in the future!
An amazing MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Y’all take a shot of your fav liquor every-time Lord X speaks the word MACHINE! Great retrospective episode Lordy X!
Oh, poor Saturn, you died too soon 😭 I can't help but wonder how things would have gone if the Saturn was under better management. Like, what if Grandia and the Lunar remakes had still been Saturn exclusives during the post-FF7 RPG boom? What if the west got that port of Symphony of the Night? I love my PlayStation, but it breaks my heart that the Saturn's reputation is built on misinformation and falsehoods
Yes, the Saturn left us far too soon. I don't think Y's and Grandia would have topped FFVII. Sega would have had to unload quite a few JRPGS onto the US market to make a dent. I was there man, I remember what Final Fantasy VII did for the gaming industry. That game hit as hard as Doom did in 1993. Everyone wanted to see it in action and bask in it's amazing story. It was everywhere you looked for a month straight. I don't think Ocarina in Time would have stood a chance had it been released the same day. FFVII was like lightning in a bottle and Sony was really hitting their stride.
That was a great lesson in Saturn history. Honestly, I didn't know much about what happened during that era. I bought the Playstation at launch after gaming on a SNES since it's launch and never went the SEGA route. I remember the Saturn, of course, but most of my friends had a SNES and were moving to the Sony platform. Before my PS1 purchase, I looked at some screenshots on the back of the retail boxes on both the PS1 and the Saturn. In my eyes, the PS1's screenshot box art looked better. I believe now that I've watched this documentary on the Saturn system, I was looking at third party games that didn't utilize the second processor for transparencies, and saw dithering. After seeing a couple games like that, my decision was final.
What a fantastic video. I've been waiting for a decent video on saturn hardware for a while now as quite often I find people generalise. Sounds like you know your stuff. Thanks for sharing this.
I LOVED my Saturn back in the 90s, and I LOVE my Saturn now. Nice system that got a bad rap. GameCube and Saturn are my favorite systems to collect for.
This was a very enjoyable and well-made video. I just recently found the channel and have been in a Saturn mood ever since. I've been playing mostly Daytona USA and Virtual On in recent days. Daytona USA may not be a brilliant port technically, but it's still great fun. I think it looks good in many ways. Virtual On still looks great after all these years. That game was always one of my favorites on the system, and I bought it without knowing anything about it. I picked up a Saturn a few months after launch in 1995, so I've always been a fan. I really loved that system when it was current. I had no regrets going with Sega that generation, even if the games dried up too soon. I bought plenty of imports, but that wasn't going to help with the likes of Panzer Dragoon Saga, which I searched for in 1998, but never found. Unfortunately for me, both Saturns that I have are acting up, so I think I will turn to emulation to keep this platform alive going forward. I never did find much solid info on the Saturn's development years ago when I looked around a bit. I always suspected that the SH-2 pair was always intended and that VDP2 was the later addition. It would make sense to take the load off VDP1 by having a chip that specialized in background rendering. My only question was how long would a custom VDP2 take to include from start to finish. If I recall correctly, I think Virtua Fighter 1 didn't use VDP2 for floors. That also points to VDP2 being added later in development. I always doubted the story of the second SH-2 being a late addition to the Saturn because the 32X had dual SH-2 chips as well. In the end, I think the biggest problem with the Saturn's design was the cost of all the components. Sony forced Sega into a price war they couldn't afford.
It is amazing that Sega expected developers to easily illustrate multi cpu usage, when it was not until several years later when multi cpu use occurred on PCs and to this day there still exists many pc game engines that do not use multi cores to potential. Great video.. I remember the night and day difference between versions of games like Toshinden on PS1 vs Saturn.
Fantastic video! Greatly appreciate all the in-depth information. Would love to hear your take on the Dreamcast. Keep it up man, your content keeps getting even better
Great video! I love the Saturn. I've always felt there was something special about the Saturn, but I could never put my finger on what exactly about the Saturn made it unique. I don't know if its just nostalgia or there is actually something special. This video helps me to see that it's not only a feeling, its not just nostalgia.
Very informative. Love the Saturn. It's worth getting one even today since I hear it's so difficult to emulate properly. It's over complexities make it special and harder to replicate
Great to see your back, keep up the great work and i hope you get round to checking the sega collections just released for the current gen consoles and what you think of them.
Holy fuck, you're back. Loved your video's a year or so back , i think i watched the lot. I recommended you to a few people only to find you'd vanished. Damn i've got some bingeing to do.
As a massive SEGA fanboy I bought a Saturn on release, I was so chuffed. My head was quickly turned when the PlayStation 1 was released. I didn’t think the the Sony would last and that it would just be another console from an electrics company that wouldn’t be able to compete with SEGA or Nintendo, but when I saw games like Tekken and Ridge racer I soon realised that I wanted one. I kept my Saturn, but eventually ended up just playing on the PS1 whilst the Saturn collected cobwebs. The rest is history
Sega had always made the coolest looking, most technically brilliant machines. My Saturn takes pride of place in my living room as its quite possibly the best looking machine ever built, although the Dreamcast is no slouch in the looks department. A wealth of excellent and quirky games, amazing 1st party titles will always make it a favourite of mine. Great video again, clearing up all those internet misconceptions about the Saturn hardware.
I always thought Sega made the best looking consoles, too. I still think the original Genesis and Sega CD models paired together is the best design ever.
As a Sega Fan through and through I sure do appreciate your videos and history lessons. In the Hunt was a submarine shooter arcade game that no one talks about. Just curious if you Sega Lord ever played that game. I had a few strange titles like Wing Arms, Ghen War, Astal and the then New Rayman. I loved that system and all the Sega Consoles starting with the Sega Master System. I just never got into Nintendo. The Sega Cd the day it came out, The Dreamcast of course. So once again thank you Sega Lord for such entertaining and informative History lessons.
I greatly appreciate the support Tim, but I definitely don't do these videos as any sort of history lesson. I try and put together an educated best guess with the available information. Outside of a few interview blurbs with the powers that be back then, rock solid information that's indisputable is hard to come by. Exact dates, hardware revisions, and even intentions, will likely die with these old engineers and executives. What I do is for fun and passion. I hope to spark debate and curiosity. If I'm proven wrong along the way, so be it. It was worth the effort to try.
I to was backing up the Saturn way back in 1995 saying that devs just needed more time. the Saturn was in fact more powerful than the PlayStation when utilized properly, evidence with panzer dragoon zwie and virtua fighter 2. great video dude thanks.
Just want to say I love your videos and the Saturn I wish I would have got the support it really deserved back in the day it was amazing hardware but I honestly believe it's pricing is what ruined it. My ex made me sell all my games years ago so just picked up a Saturn again to relive my youth it's still amazing today but game prices are insane to say the least.
I got a Saturn for Xmas in 1996. The majority of my friends got Playstations but I got a nice Saturn deal, it was the Saturn with the second version controllers and I got Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally & Panzer Dragoon 2. On Boxing Day I went into town and got Sega Worldwide Soccer. Those 4 games kept myself and my friends busy for 2 years and they were constantly asking to swap consoles for a weekend, but I wasn't interested in Playstation really, until MGS came out in 1998. Exhumed/Powerslave was a great Saturn game, and very different from its PC & PSX counterparts. Saturn Doom however, well, that was just heartbreaking. I mean it was almost 2 years since the PSX version of Doom had been out, and considering how well the Saturn could handle the type of visuals Doom used it really should have been the ultimate console version of Doom, at the time. The Sega Saturn would easily be in my top five favourite consoles ever list, maybe even the top three.
About two weeks after I posted this, Hideki Sato was quoted in an interview saying that the Saturn was indeed just a one SH-2 CPU system in the beginning. The second SH-2 was added later as a response to the PS1. I added a pinned comment with some of that interview. I stand by the rest of the video, however. I still feel that VDP2 offered decent transparency support, and I definitely feel VDP2 was the very last thing added to the system.
I've only known one person in my entire life with a Saturn. Still one of my favorite systems I've ever played. Snes, Genesis, Saturn, Ps1 in that order
Technically VDP1 can render triangles by making one side of a quad zero size. Travellers Tales created their software renderer for reasons other than drawing triangles. Using this line of thought the MegaDrive / Genesis could render polygons with a software renderer on its 68000.... which it in fact did to limited success. However just because its possible doesn't mean it is viable. A software 3D renderer on the SH2's would not be able to get anywhere near close to matching the number of polygons VDP1 could render.
A feature that PS1 could never overcome Sega Saturn, was in the polygonal graphics. While PS1 could only show triangles, Saturn showed squares. In games like tenchu, being crouched on a fence you realize how all this crooked, by the effort that make the triangles to form a straight figure.
Triangles can be used to make any n-gon, including squares. There are no advantages to having quads in hardware. Almost all modern 3d hardware deals with triangles only.
Kuddos for being probably the only youtuber ever to state the completely obvious truth. Saturn was always a 3D hardware design, both SH2s were always present, and Sega Arcade tech was always the inspiration. Great presentation of the facts here. Marketing and hype will always win the day, as the Dreamcast's cancelation finally showed, but Internet myths need to be debunked. There is not_one_source, internal or external to Sega, showing what if any Saturn hardware redesigns there were. Nothing shows what was added "at the last minute" or "in reaction to Playstation." Only rumors generated by Next Generation / Edge persist on the Internet. Rumors that originally claimed the Playstation was displaying 360,000 texture mapped and lit polygons per second and capable of 1 million flat shaded. Saturn's design always looked to me to be a reaction to the Super Nintendo's inclusion of numerous custom chips, including background scaling and rotation processing. Saturn's design always assumed ports of Model 1 and Model 2 games, as well as System 32 quality 2D scaling and rotation. These targets were more than lofty enough for Sega engineers (not "Sega") to come up with the Saturn's design with cost always a factor.
I've always wished that some of Sega's engineers would come forward and speak openly about Saturn's design. That story would be what is needed to set the record straight once and for all.
I don't think so, not in any measureable way anyway. VDP1's poorly documented fillrate being as low as 15Megapixels per second to the GE's 33Megapixels per second doesn't lend much hope to the Saturn being more powerful overall. The highest I've seen VDP1's fillrate guestimated to is 28Megapixels/second, and even then with the Quads versus Tris comparison being apples to oranges that wasn't a solid figure. Saturn could absolutely trounce PS1 clearly in games that utilized VDP2 to its fullest, but those games had to be very specifically designed engines that would in no way translate to a (now) more traditional triangle rendering API. Without really leaning on VDP2 to fill more than half the screen, VDP1 didn't even have as much texture RAM available as the PS1 GE does. Though I personally think Saturn is better at 8-bit (256color) texture maps than PS1, which heavily favors 4-bit (16-color) textures and full screen dithering. Both SH-2's could never run the same code at the same time, High and Low speed RAM contentions made this even worse for Saturn optimization. Never being able to utilized both SH2s at 100% each means that 50MIPS+ figure is totally in a vacuum. Nobody thinks the SCUs would ever be used to the same effect as Sony's GE/GTE at blowing ugly little polygons all over the screen (something the PS2's VUs did really well too). Ultimately the Saturn was "better at" games with 2D backgounds and flat floors than at fully 3D polygonal environments. So Mech Warrior 2, GunGriffon, 3D Fighters, 3D Rail Shooters, 3D Flight Sims, Space Sims, and these types of games were well suited to VDP2 and therefore potentially better on Saturn. Stuff like Metal Gear Solid, Loaded, Shining Force III, Grandia and that style of overhead graphics should have really favored Saturn's approach. So we really would be looking at 2D games with polygonal characters running around on them, which I would have taken if they looked as good as the Saturn's best offerings of that style. I'd have taken a total take over of Virtual On style games, even to the degree FPSs have taken over today though, so what do I know?
A new interview with Saturn hardware designer Hideki Sato goes into great detail about Saturn's time line and complexity. It sheds light on how and why Saturn ended up the way it did. It does render some details in this video in need of revision, while supporting others fully. I recommend you read it.
On the MC68020 and why the SH was chosen:
Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 10-11
Motorola had the MC68020, the successor to the MC68000. It was a strong-selling 32-bit CISC microprocessor. Sega of America, who were developing their own 16-bit Genesis games, wanted to use the MC68020 in the Saturn. That would have allowed for essentially updated versions of the current types of game software, and the development libraries could easily be done. They wanted to go for forward compatibility.
However, from my viewpoint, this lacked the necessary “jump” in technology. I thought that it might be okay to move forward with such a continuation of the current technology, but all the same, I felt we needed to move in a new direction, to change things up. Compared with the 16-bit generation, we needed to move away from mask ROMs, from solid-state memory, which was too expensive. CD-ROMs had become cheap, but the technology was no longer new. The PC Engine had already been using it for years. We needed something more.
At the time, Hitachi happened to be developing the SH processor. After seeing the specs, I was impressed by its high performance. I decided to go with it, even though it was still in development (this was a very rash move for me). The SH is a RISC (Reduced Instruction) CPU, and at that time, NEC was also developing one, the V Series. I felt that Hitachi’s SH was good, so I went with that.
On how the Saturn design changed in response to the PlayStation:
Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 13-14
The Saturn actually had just one CPU at the beginning. Then Sony appeared with its polygon-based PlayStation. When I was first designing the Saturn architecture, I was focused on sprite graphics, which had been the primary graphics up to that point.
So I decided to go with polygons (due to the PlayStation). However, there weren’t any people at Sega who knew how to develop such software. Of course, we had Yu Suzuki in the arcade department, but I couldn’t just drag him off to the console department. He was developing titles like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing. The expertise of all of the developers we had was in sprite graphics, so there seemed no choice but to go with sprites. Nevertheless, I knew we needed polygons. Using various tricks, adding a geometry engine and so on, I changed everything. In the end, just like the PlayStation, we had pseudo-polygons built on a sprite base. I felt no choice but to design a sprite-based architecture. Having said that, after some significant progress, pseudo-polygons did represent a “jump” in graphics in a certain way. There was a distinction of sorts. The processor was very powerful and could support 4,000, even 5,000 sprites, and I thought we could make the graphics work using a sprite engine after adding the Yamaha and such.
It seemed like we were finally nearing completion. Then, the final PlayStation was revealed. It supported 300,000 polygons. Well, that was ultimately a bunch of lies, but… When you compared the Saturn with the PlayStation, we were completely missing something. The response that I chose was to add another SH processor, so we ended up with two SH-2s. By chance, the SH supported two-way cascaded data transfer. You could add a second processor and connect them in a cascade and get multi-CPU performance. When you get to about the PlayStation 3, multi-processors had become common, but the Saturn was the first home console to use multi-processors. So I added a second SH-2, but I felt that the ‘impact’ was still weak. Well, the SH-2 is a 32-bit processor, and we had two of them, so we could call the Saturn a 64-bit machine. It’s a dirty way of getting to 64-bits. But we revealed the CD-ROM-based Saturn using 64-bits as our sales point.
On the difficulties of developing for the Saturn:
Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 14-15
At the beginning, there was no compiler. You had to program the SH in assembly. The people at Sega were good at assembly. That’s all they had been using on the MC68000. C, C++ were too slow to use.
However, third parties struggled with programming the SH in assembly, and there were two of the CPUs along with a CD-ROM. We asked third parties to make games, but without development libraries, they couldn’t do anything. They’d take a week and barely even be able to get something to display on the screen, let alone be able to start making a game. Our third party support was awful. The hardware was incredibly difficult to use. However, if you worked with it a bit, you could get a ton of sprites, with scaling and rotation and so on.
On Sony’s support for third party developers:
Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 page 16
Sony was good at supporting PlayStation third party developers. Why? Sony didn’t have a development department. They didn’t have a software department. What do you do if you don’t have a software department? You ask somebody else. Sony went to Namco, to Taito, to Konami. They said that they were putting together a game console called the PlayStation, and they invited these companies to develop games for it. Sony exerted all its efforts on supporting third parties and enhancing their collective powers. Sony CEO Norio Ohga himself went to talk to the third parties. From their perspective, it was a big deal for Ohga to come and ask this. From Namco’s viewpoint, if they put out Tekken, they could compete evenly with Sega’s Virtua Fighter.
The number one game in the PlayStation world was Ridge Racer. And Konami being Konami, they had their typical games. It’s obvious that the PlayStation had the better games. No matter how much effort Sega put in on its own, it wasn’t going to be enough.
So Sony went to Namco, Taito, Konami, and others, and they said here are the specs, and don’t worry, there aren’t two CPUs or anything difficult like that. They said the PlayStation will be easy to develop for, and here are all the development libraries we’ll put out. Sony had a very easy-to-use SKD (Software Development Kit). And Ohga himself was making these offers, and the third parties were told they could port all of their own titles, and so on. With all of that, it certainly seemed like the PlayStation was better.
On Sega’s losses associated with the Saturn and their response:
Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Sato, part 3.2 pages 16-17
So we released the Saturn in 1994, and as I said before, there were two SH-2s. In addition, memory was expensive at this time, and we were using a large amount, so costs were very high. For each Saturn sold, we lost about 10,000 yen ($100). That’s how the hardware business works. But the goal was to recoup the losses from software royalties. If there are lots of third parties, lots of games sold, and we get 2,000 yen for each, it’s possible. However, if software sales are weak, and for each console sold, we’re ultimately losing 5,000 - 6,000 yen, what’s going to happen from the business perspective? We’re going to stop selling consoles. This later became a huge problem.
Sega Lord X Nothing new actually - the entire design was slapped together at the last moment, without considering costs and ease of software development. "I couldn't just pull Suzuki away..." bullshit - he could and that would probably save the company in the long run. Suzuki singlehandedly brought 3d to the arcades, he should have at least been brought on as a technical advisor - "don't do that, aim for this" would have sufficed, he wouldn't have to design the hardware like he did with the arcades. The guy blatantly states that key people on his team (including himself) had no idea how to develop 3d games, and he still chose to keep quiet, probably in order to keep his job.
Your assumption about the dual processors is also wrong based on this article.
www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?33527-The-Story-of-the-Hitachi-SH-2-and-the-Sega-Saturn
what is the song at the beggining? is that a Sega official song?
It's the intro to puyo puyo 7
Cool thanks. It makes sense that even if you have powerful hardware, if the company doesn't provide the proper dev libraries, and expects people to code in assembly language, dev time will increase and fewer companies will want to develop for it. The question is why didn't Sega provide the SDK for its machine?
Also, FWIW, the dreamcast showed Sega could still make great hardware, and if they had waited about a year, increased the specs, I think it could have competed with the PS2/Xbox.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei was a perfect example of what the Saturn was capable of. Everything people claimed the Saturn couldn't do, was showcased in plain view from the moment the title screen pops up. Amazing soundtrack, fluid game play with so much detail. I'll never give up my Saturn. 😁
There are a lot of incredible looking games on Saturn. Burning Rangers has this part with a psychic dolphin in a tank and it looks incredible.
THANK YOU! Misinformation has plagued Saturn discussion for far too long! Also, here's a fun thing to note: Virtua Fighter 2 is so high resolution that on real CRTs and even in this video, the dithered meshes are almost indistinguishable from true transparency.
Funny how that worked, huh. ;)
Crap? Oh please. If you're worried about incense burners instead of PERFECT gameplay, you're in the wrong place. Sad how people STILL crap on Sega after all these years......really sad!
Virtua Fighter 2 was done on a Model 2 arcade board. This was bleeding edge polygon tech at the time. No console in that era could have done it 100%. Saturn port ran at 60fps and the highest resolution of any console game that year. That's far from crap.
GeminiBlount He said "crap' lmaoo smh
TboneNYC10 right?!
I miss the Saturn. The games were ground breaking and fun to play!
I appreciate your Sega obsession and have subscribed.
You're in the right place for Sega obsessions. ;)
I too subbed for obsessive seganess
@@SegaLordX hahahahahahahahah
I think what many people don't realise is that the SH2 chips were specifically designed to work as a pair in Master / Slave mode.
They even have to have a specific pin tied high or low, to tell them which mode to run in, so it definitely wasn't an afterthought.
The exact same chips were used in the 32x, and while they have Sega-specific part numbers, they really are just off-the-shelf Hitachi SH2 CPUs.
(I just found a source for the chips, and received a pair of them a few days ago.)
The same chips have been used in countless other devices before and since the Saturn, such as printers, scanners, routers / switches, telecoms, white goods etc., so there's nothing custom about the CPUs specifically.
Another interesting thing is that the 32x only uses 16-bits of the 32-bit data bus on the SH2s, while the Saturn uses the full 32-bit bus width.
It's probably not a huge deal in reality, and only one SH2 can access the bus at a time anyway, but it does make me wonder what improvement it could have made to the 32x.
The Saturn (and PlayStation) kind of passed me by in the 90s, but I really appreciate both consoles now.
Well done on the vid. Always good to see well-researched retro vids with some good hardware details. :)
Super video!! Very informative and well put together!! Did a great job separating fact from fiction! I NEVER regretted getting a Saturn and once I found the glory of import gaming on the machine, it quickly become one of my favorite and beloved consoles!!
I think most people who look at Saturn with a more objective view would see a machine worth owning. The echo chamber of the internet has hid its true worth long enough.
This is the kind of video the retrogaming community has been needing for a long time. Retrospectively, I think that the arcade scene had globally started its decline during the mid-90's for many reasons eventhough this was not noticeable everywhere at the time. It probably was not in Japan. SEGA suffered a lot from being an arcade-focused company, in the long run.
Awesome video. To this day, the Sega Saturn is my favorite system, not to mention it had possibly the best controller ever made. I got it on launch and never regretted a second. I still have the thing plugged up to my old tube TV and play it every now and again. I just wish it was more popular in the US, so it could have had more releases. I am glad it at least did well in Japan.
to this day I love how well spoken you are lol. I wish I would have followed the saturn as I was growing up since I went with the PS1, and mind you I still don't regret it. Glad I at least realized what the saturn's power is today and getting to show my friend's the games for it still surprise em is what makes it even better.
Dispelled a lot of misinformation which I'd believed myself - great to have such a refreshing perspective.
Ended up being a lot of misinformation here though lol
One of the few RUclipsrs I watch EVERY video ALL the way thru EVERY TIME. Thank you for doing these! Your content is unrivaled!!
Awesome. Thank you for that support.
I know, right? I watch every video fully plus I like and comment for the algorhythm.
@@SegaLordX I'd love to see a review of yours of Irreel, a homebrew game that recreates Unreal using Sat real hardware. Many of the myths regarding the Saturn are destroyed in there.
“We can also ascertain another common falsehood to be eradicated here.” Using a thesaurus?
Outstanding video! I'm so happy to see a video on Sega history based on facts and not rumors and revisionism, and even more happy that the name "Tom Kalinske" wasn't mentioned once! That one book from him has spawned so many half-truths; it's fantastic to see you simply representing the machine as it is without embellishment. Kudos!
You will never see me singing Mr. Kalinske's praises. I'll be confronting his part in Sega's mis-steps soon enough.
Sega Lord X Awesome. Can't wait. Facts over self-aggrandizing all day!
This'll never happen but I sincerely hope that, one day, we'll get a Saturn Collection from Sega. There were a ton of great exclusives on Saturn that you just couldn't find anywhere else and for those to go mostly unplayed is a travesty.
Many want the same collection. I hope Sega listens.
It's not gonna be easy. All that Saturn code can only be run through emulation because Sega will likely not be able to get Sh-2 CPUs, and Saturn emulation is notoriously hard. Even after almost 30 years since the Saturn came out, emulation has not been going too well compared to many other systems.
Wow! This video is excellent, dude!
Bringing in the facts and researched information is exactly what we need more of on the internet!
Im amazed at how much rumours, misconceptions and common lack of knowledge can become "fact" online 😮.
Even I never questioned the "3D as an after thought" rumour before watching this video as that is probably one of the most common misconceptions surrounding the Sega Saturn.
I feel enlightened!
Well done! Keep up the high quality, SLX! 🖒🖒
Thanks, Andrew. It's easy to believe something if you hear it enough times. Many before me have tried to spread the truth, so I just wanted to add my voice to that chorus.
Thanks for making this video, one of my favourite consoles still have mine set up in my front room
I play mine regularly. Going through Dragon Force II again, atm.
You have to remember that assembly language was more or less the norm for most games in the 80s and early 90s, it was often the only way to get otherwise very primitive machines to produce decent results . Problem was that by the mid 90s, games were getting bigger and thus assembly language was very time consuming. That said to my knowledge, many late PS1 games were also coded in assembly in order to get every bit of power out of the system. The VDP1 also was more or less a sprite pusher, and its rendering method was quite wasteful.
The main advantage the PS had was really its rendering speed, it was blazing fast at rendering polygons at the time (more than any home system at the time, not as good as model 2 or Nacmo 22 though). Most 3rd party games utilized this and built games around the PS. As you said , a good Saturn game needed to make good use of VDP2 to save VDP1's more limited capability, and of course most devs never bothered much .
Alot of devs also went with Sony for the simple reason that they wanted to get away from Nintendo and Sega, both companies had develped a reputation for being a bit douchy with odd business practices (Nintendo more so) , and Sony were the first to pull things off well, in that they produced a capable machine that was easy to work with , and didn't cost a fortune (main flaws of the Jaguar and 3DO), they also had great marketing (something NEC couldnt do well with the TG16)
I wouldn't call VDP1 wasteful, as it was designed to compete with Jaguar and 3DO, so it had the performance to compete in that market, well. Sega's designs at the time were to have a machine that would do 2D and 3D well(as its arcade machines covered), but they simply weren't ready for how much Sony would push home technology. Not just in speed or feature set, but in just how easy it was to get those things working. Their thinking as an arcade manufacturer worked against them here a bit, as their faith in their internal teams took precedent over their desire to help 3rd parties.
Well the Saturn's ability to render polygons was limited by its own sprite engine and that came with its own set of problems (difficulty in rendering large polygons for instance).
Its worth mentioning that back then , there was no standard for 3D rendering, certainly not for a home system or computer . Im sure you will recall the large amounts of early 3D accelerators out at the time , all of which were using different, custom APIs and odd ways to render polygons (as opposed to today where Nvidia and AMD more or less do the same thing). In that sense Sega werent any more guilty of overusing custom hardware than anyone else.
I also think Sega wanted good 2D capabilties due to the fact that in 1994 , there was still a debate whether the industry would go to 3D . Its easy to mock that debate now obviously, but in 94 there was alot of genuine skepticism over 3D on anything other than graphics workstations and very high end arcades.
Interestingly the Jaguar's Tom & Jerry chips were quite fast , the issue for them was the system they sat in . It had less RAM than even the 3DO and didn't really have a main CPU (other than a 68000 used for system management , which may as well have been pulled out of some old Atari ST or a Mega Drive)
pochoun33137 Sega should of released a graphic chip for Saturn to help fight Sony
the Saturn's RAM cart is just normal RAM thats added to the system , you could really use it for whatever you wanted. I think the RAM cart was probably planned pretty early at Sega, given the fact that the ST-V arcade board Sega was using, was just a Saturn with extra RAM (games like Die Hard Arcade, Columns 97 , Athlete Kings used that board).
In the end some STV games did use the RAM cart (Astra Superstars , Groove on Fight) , wheres Sega's ports didn't.
They actually did.....sort of.
Nvidia's first graphics card, the NV1 in 1995 was actually based on Saturn tech (with Sega's involvement), and even came bundled with a Saturn controller (it had controller boards on a seperate blanking plate you attached to the card) and enhanced ports fo games like Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter, it also had onboard sound.
Problem was the card was incompatible with the then new DirectX and the card ended up being stomped on by the 3DFX Voodoo like alot of other cards at the time. By 97 they released the Riva128 which was more of a standard 3D accelerator.
Excellent informative video. I love that mystique of the SS. An over engineered complex beast that just needed to be harnessed.
If only that had come sooner. I would have loved to have seen 5th and 6th year Saturn games.
Awesome video. The truth needs to be heard more often with regards to the saturns development. It's really frustrating to see saturn hardware videos over and over again putting out misinformation about the machine being intended as a 2d powerhouse and its 3d almost an afterthought, or just put there for good measure. Even without the VDP2 in the picture the saturn still easily outguns 3do and jaguar by a good margin. Take the Playstation out from history and people would be looking back at the saturn as having 3d ahead of its time for a console. Relative to what the N64 brought to the table almost two years later with its own 3d shortcomings, the saturn could still hold its own, and in all honesty had the playstation never come to fruition, sega and nintendo would have had a very tight battle for that generations console king.
A very informative video. Many thanks for the tech info too. I have finally acquired a Model 2 Saturn with ten games for a great price. It need a refurb and a good clean though. Im looking forward to Playing Resident Evil, Tomb Raider and Powerslave/Exhumed again.
Don't miss it's awesome RPG library. It's got some of the finest in that era.
I did once own Shining the Holy Arc and Shining Force III but never realised how good they were. I was young.
Man, so many new informations about the Saturn. To think that everything i ever geard about this console was actually wrong... thanks for making this video, the Sega Saturn was my very first console. Also, thanks for showing so many cool games and they names.
I'm trying to show names more. It's highly requested.
I personnaly love the Sega Saturn's esthetics in terms of graphics. It looks more to me like an artistic movement than software limitation issues. These graphics are sybolic of their time. I know it's juste me, but when I see these graphics, I see an epoch of promises, the next step of 3D rendering and a realization of what would come in the future and of all the progress that still had to be made. It was magical in a way. Modern days of gaming are less enchanting than what we had back in the 32/64 bits era. Future looked better in the past.
I hope someday enough documentation about the Saturn is known that homebrews and ports will become available. One of the most interesting systems ever released.
Not just you, man. Many share that feeling.
@Robo Space Kitten
You didn't think that Sega Rally was an arcade masterpiece on the Saturn?
Sega Rally was not total shit on the Saturn. The big differences between the arcade game and the Saturn version was the resolution and 30fps vs. 60fps. It was a pretty accurate conversion. I've probably played it more than any racing game, on any console.
The original Ridge Racer sucked. I've owned and sold the game twice, and it was nothing more than a glorified tech demo at best. I didn't care for the series until RR Type4. The draw distance in Sega Rally Championship is just fine, and the car physics blow away every racer on the PlayStation, including Gran Turismo 2.
ruclips.net/video/iroy7m5jQss/видео.html
Great video! I love these informative videos about one of my favorite systems hardware. Complex, yet very capable was the Saturn.
Awesome video man. The Saturn has a profound mystique.
Thanks, Zachary. Hopefully this video and others like it will help gamers find their way through the misinformation.
Great video. outstanding. Thank you for explaining that the Saturn wasn't the literal last second thrown together processor frankensaturn. As you said, Sega knew what they were doing having experience with complex multi-processor arcade machines. You said it best, it was The Saturn's curse but largest blessing at the same time. Sega internally had tons of experience, tools, personnel and confidence to Exploit the Saturn's power. unfortunately third parties struggled thereby taking easier routes. people today see that meshing is ugly but back then in standard resolution and on crt tv's, meshing wasn't as apparent. but with todays hi res tv's, it becomes more noticeable. There is a video on RUclips that shows that Sega was working on a VF3 for the Saturn. it would have pushed the system pretty hard but would have been mindblowing. I wish Shenmu would have come out on it as well. I wonder if the ps1 could have done Shenmu as well as the Saturn? The Saturn is my favorite Retro system, perhaps of all time. its mystique, power and under utilzed features make it a very interesting system to study and enjoy.
I 100% agree with this comment.
Composite and RF definitely hid some limitations back then. Of course, they introduced just as many. ;)
+leadbones did you not just watch the video? or are you just reading comments. the general belief amongst videogamers is that Sega totally panicked and threw in a bunch of processors. that isn't so much the case. Sega Lord X just said in this video that Sega had plenty of experience with complex multi processor boards. The Saturn is based in a multi-processor arcade board. multi processors had been planned since 93' for the Saturn. Sega was taking a risk and was using its experience with multi processors to outshine the PS1. It didn't work as planned. They did add another video chip at the last minute in panic over the PS1. The Saturn was an unorganized mess to Sega at all. the problem was around third parties not having that multi-processor experience that Sega had. third party conversions or games suffered as a result but in house games that were properly developed, took advantage of the systems power. PD2, VF2 are great examples. yes, Segas launch games were rushed, and it showed.
wasn't an unorganized mess at all to Sega*
Many people get tricked about VF3 on the Saturn. The awful pictures floating around the internet and that make it into discussions and videos about VF3 on the Saturn. Are NOT from a Saturn port.
They look awful because they are from an old work in progress Model 3 emulator.
If any proof was needed. Just look at the amount of polygons on characters faces. It's way way too many to be from a Saturn version.
Not everyday I learn something new about Saturn. Great video!!!
Getting a second Saturn as a backup! I'm in the UK so will get a model 1 as I already have a model 2 with a region free mod. I think the model 1 just looks more next gen
Great video! The Sega Saturn was a good machine. I still own it today and it play every now and then.
The Saturn is one of those machines that I never could get myself to purchase. I’ve had multiple opportunities to get small collections over the years. I am not much of a 2d fighter game person and that was what most of those collections had. There are times when I watch videos like the ones you produce and I think, ‘Man, I shoulda got a Saturn’.
Great vid.
Let me say this; if you have never given some of the Saturn's RPG's and adventure games their due, the system is worth owning just for them. Start with Dragon Force and you'll never look back.
You can get set up with a Japanese Saturn with ram cart for like 150 bucks. It's worth it.
Jeremy Cline Yeah, I’ve checked around. I just don’t have any extra cash for it. Maybe if I could sell some of my other stuff, I’d consider it. Thanks for the info!
Very informative video. One thing people forget is that by 97 Sega had created tools which made programming for the system much easier, but Sega had already done a lot to damage themselves by that point.
Indeed. By 98, the system was almost completely stalled in the west.
Absolutely on point with this video. I was never more disappointed with the execution and reception of a system than I was with the Sega Saturn. Even to this day I love this system and wish it had more time to mature. Dreamcast was great to but I was more prepared for that ones failure. Saturn was totally unexpected.
I was shocked, myself. I just didn't understand how people were dismissing the Saturn. I was an arcade guy, though, so the Saturn was virtually tailored to my tastes.
This is one of the best videos on the internet about the Saturn.
I had Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn and it was truly impressive. Showed that the Saturn had lots of potential and power that was only used by a few talented developers.
It's definitely in the conversation.
Rap Lawyer Digital Foundry has a nice comparison video on that topic. I just watched it a few days ago. Sega Lord X got Saturn stuck in my brain the last couple of weeks. The PS1 version looks poor. N64 had stuff going for it, though the video presenter seemed to prefer tje Saturn version.
This game is ported by a company called Lobotomy Software.
Quite different comment from their developer.
One developer Ezra Dreisbach said PSX is much faster than Saturn in graphic rendering.
Another developer Brian McNeely said PlayStation engine didn’t allow to display quite as many polygons on screen.
Duke 3D on the Saturn was one of the best games that Generation. Why? Death Tank Zwei
Michel DC
The developers of the Saturn Doom actually had an amazing port that took full advantage of Saturn hardware running at 60 fps. It would've been the very best port up till then. However, Carmack himself came in late into the development and didn't like how the Saturn VDPs did textures, which resulted in shimmering. He made the devs redo the game, using the more standard texturing like the other ports, which resulted in rushed, barely playable mess that was released. Real shame. Carmack basically ruined Saturn Doom. :(
This is the best video on the Saturn I’ve seen. You continue to impress me and make interesting and well done videos. You have become one of my favorite channels. I binge watch your videos on tour all the time and love that someone else loves the Saturn as much as I do! This video surprised even me with a few points. Keep up the great work 💪🏾
Oh wow! Sega Lord X is back! Welcome back dude
Thanks. Appreciate the comment.
Wow! Didn´t know you were back on youtube. That is great since you had one of my favourite channels.
About 2 months ago. Glad you found me again.
MAN, BEST VIDEO ON SATURN!PERIOD! thank you!
Appreciate you watching it.
So glad to see u making videos again you and customgrow420 returned and I couldn't be happier
Only had my first Saturn about a year. (thanks to this and the old channel!) games are great. Love that directional pad on the controllers. Great info as always. This is still the best channel for the Saturn on RUclips period
Glad the channel helped you find some good games. :)
One of the best videos regarding Saturn' hardware that I've ever seen. Good job, man! Keep up with the outstanding work.
Thanks, man. Appreciate that.
Hey man,glad to see you back,when your channel went down I was disappointed because I was getting into the Saturn very hard,and was enjoying your videos
Great video. I absolutely love the Saturn it is one of my favorite systems.
As you can tell by the channel here, I'm fond of it, myself.
Sega Lord X oh trust me I know. Just like the Saturn your channel is also one of my favorites.
thank you as a fellow Saturn owner. Even back then, when people say it cant do transparencies, I'd show then Cupido's stage in Toshinden, the entire arena is transparent polygons.
Saturn is one tough console even after all these years stored in a outside shed mine still works.
Great video. The best history lesson I've ever seen. I loved that console and had a huge library.
I'm currently over 500 games for it at last count. Not going for a complete collection, I just love the library.
My collection is primarily Japanese, but the Saturn has nearly 250 games in its USA library.
The Saturn era was one of my favourite times in gaming. I adored my Saturn...
favorite*
@@allentoyokawa9068 We actually spell it Favourite over here. We also spell Color as Colour. :)
I still own a Saturn and have played quite a few of the games. One of my favorite systems of all time. A cool era for gaming.
Very good analysis. Clears up a lot of misconceptions about the hardware and gives great insight into how Sega anticipated it working. If the PlayStation had not been so damn easy to develop for in C, we no doubt would have received a lot more capable titles for the Saturn.
You have to hand it to Sony. They came in with power, speed, ease of use, and a plan for 3rd parties. They ripped the industry away from the titans, and you have to respect it.
It was and is a awesome piece of hardware,, still love it and play it all the time. Love your videos brother!! Good to see that I’m not alone in my obsession with anything sega!!!! Keep em coming
Thanks, Ralph. Appreciate the message.
I loved my Saturn.. I was like a treasure hunt for games at time of release... My brother was playing Final Fantasy 7, Tekken, and Einhander... And I was playing Panzer Dragoon Saga, Radiant Silvergun, and the great Sega and Capcom fighting games... I also, have many great memories of playing Decathlete and Winter Heat... Good times...
One of my favorite consoles ever and turns out to be the very first console I ever got as a kid. I don't have the same Saturn I got as a kid I've got a model 2 now that I bought at this used game store but I really enjoy firing that thing up and enjoying some classic Saturn gaming.
Many Saturn classics are actually cheap, especially the Japanese variants; many of which play fine to us non Japanese speakers.
What a video!!!! Wow!! Thank you so much!!!!!
Still play my saturn to this day! Love it!
Long live the Saturn. I never had one growing up but always wanted one. Now, as an adult i have 3 of them and am now enjoying the library especially the Jp games.
I learned a lot! Really like this style of video, and I hope I find more of them not only in your backlog, but on my subscribed feed when you release more videos in the future!
Didn't know you were back but I'm glad you are
Thank you. :)
An amazing MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Y’all take a shot of your fav liquor every-time Lord X speaks the word MACHINE!
Great retrospective episode Lordy X!
Thank you, kind sir.
Oh, poor Saturn, you died too soon 😭
I can't help but wonder how things would have gone if the Saturn was under better management. Like, what if Grandia and the Lunar remakes had still been Saturn exclusives during the post-FF7 RPG boom? What if the west got that port of Symphony of the Night? I love my PlayStation, but it breaks my heart that the Saturn's reputation is built on misinformation and falsehoods
The PS1 was an awesome machine. I wanted this episode to show respect for both machines. I hope I succeeded.
Sega Lord X I say you did well. The fifth console generation was truly home to great systems.
Yes, the Saturn left us far too soon. I don't think Y's and Grandia would have topped FFVII. Sega would have had to unload quite a few JRPGS onto the US market to make a dent. I was there man, I remember what Final Fantasy VII did for the gaming industry. That game hit as hard as Doom did in 1993. Everyone wanted to see it in action and bask in it's amazing story. It was everywhere you looked for a month straight. I don't think Ocarina in Time would have stood a chance had it been released the same day. FFVII was like lightning in a bottle and Sony was really hitting their stride.
That was a great lesson in Saturn history. Honestly, I didn't know much about what happened during that era. I bought the Playstation at launch after gaming on a SNES since it's launch and never went the SEGA route. I remember the Saturn, of course, but most of my friends had a SNES and were moving to the Sony platform.
Before my PS1 purchase, I looked at some screenshots on the back of the retail boxes on both the PS1 and the Saturn. In my eyes, the PS1's screenshot box art looked better. I believe now that I've watched this documentary on the Saturn system, I was looking at third party games that didn't utilize the second processor for transparencies, and saw dithering. After seeing a couple games like that, my decision was final.
What a fantastic video. I've been waiting for a decent video on saturn hardware for a while now as quite often I find people generalise. Sounds like you know your stuff. Thanks for sharing this.
I LOVED my Saturn back in the 90s, and I LOVE my Saturn now. Nice system that got a bad rap. GameCube and Saturn are my favorite systems to collect for.
This was a very enjoyable and well-made video. I just recently found the channel and have been in a Saturn mood ever since. I've been playing mostly Daytona USA and Virtual On in recent days. Daytona USA may not be a brilliant port technically, but it's still great fun. I think it looks good in many ways. Virtual On still looks great after all these years. That game was always one of my favorites on the system, and I bought it without knowing anything about it. I picked up a Saturn a few months after launch in 1995, so I've always been a fan. I really loved that system when it was current. I had no regrets going with Sega that generation, even if the games dried up too soon. I bought plenty of imports, but that wasn't going to help with the likes of Panzer Dragoon Saga, which I searched for in 1998, but never found. Unfortunately for me, both Saturns that I have are acting up, so I think I will turn to emulation to keep this platform alive going forward.
I never did find much solid info on the Saturn's development years ago when I looked around a bit. I always suspected that the SH-2 pair was always intended and that VDP2 was the later addition. It would make sense to take the load off VDP1 by having a chip that specialized in background rendering. My only question was how long would a custom VDP2 take to include from start to finish. If I recall correctly, I think Virtua Fighter 1 didn't use VDP2 for floors. That also points to VDP2 being added later in development. I always doubted the story of the second SH-2 being a late addition to the Saturn because the 32X had dual SH-2 chips as well. In the end, I think the biggest problem with the Saturn's design was the cost of all the components. Sony forced Sega into a price war they couldn't afford.
Subscribed. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, man. I will certainly try.
It is amazing that Sega expected developers to easily illustrate multi cpu usage, when it was not until several years later when multi cpu use occurred on PCs and to this day there still exists many pc game engines that do not use multi cores to potential. Great video.. I remember the night and day difference between versions of games like Toshinden on PS1 vs Saturn.
Fantastic video! Greatly appreciate all the in-depth information. Would love to hear your take on the Dreamcast. Keep it up man, your content keeps getting even better
Such a fantastic video! I love the Saturn and will always miss Sega of old. Quality content as always.
I’m a hardcore af Saturn fan and home brew developer and you honestly cleared up some shit and taught me shit here. Fucking awesome dude.
Your still the professor to me Sega Lord. Love your Videos.
Another excellent and informative video. Thanks for this👍
Thanks, Mitch.
Thank you! Best Saturn Hardware Video on youTube! Do you have a PATREON page?
Not yet, but it's coming. I wanted the channel to mature a bit so I could bring the best content I could.
I understand ... never again go away ;)
Great video! I love the Saturn. I've always felt there was something special about the Saturn, but I could never put my finger on what exactly about the Saturn made it unique. I don't know if its just nostalgia or there is actually something special. This video helps me to see that it's not only a feeling, its not just nostalgia.
Thank You For Making This Video.
Very informative. Love the Saturn. It's worth getting one even today since I hear it's so difficult to emulate properly. It's over complexities make it special and harder to replicate
Great to see your back, keep up the great work and i hope you get round to checking the sega collections just released for the current gen consoles and what you think of them.
I have the new Genesis Collection. I like it a lot.
Top video! Very well documented and explained
This is an excellent video and cleared many myths surrounding it's hardware.
Holy fuck, you're back. Loved your video's a year or so back , i think i watched the lot. I recommended you to a few people only to find you'd vanished. Damn i've got some bingeing to do.
Thanks, Adam. Welcome back to the channel.
Sega: You programmed the Saturn wrong.
3rd Dev: Then how should we program it right?
Sega: Thats uh... wait for next year okay?
I love the new intro. Awesome video!
Thanks. I was trying it out to see how it looked.
Wow, this was an eye opener 🤔 Been fooled my whole youth, yet I knew it deep inside while enjoying all the best releases.
Glad to see you're back.
Thank you. It's been great being back.
As a massive SEGA fanboy I bought a Saturn on release, I was so chuffed. My head was quickly turned when the PlayStation 1 was released. I didn’t think the the Sony would last and that it would just be another console from an electrics company that wouldn’t be able to compete with SEGA or Nintendo, but when I saw games like Tekken and Ridge racer I soon realised that I wanted one. I kept my Saturn, but eventually ended up just playing on the PS1 whilst the Saturn collected cobwebs. The rest is history
Superb video! Nice to see a Saturn document that's not just ripped from Wikipedia.
I just bought a region free modded V Saturn on eBay today. So many memories of this system from back in the day.
I love that batman sound at the end,one of the best soundtracks ever ;)
It really is. The Genesis harnessed beautifully.
Thank you for the great video! I heard a lot of stuff, that you wouldn't hear on the mainstream part if the internet.
Sega had always made the coolest looking, most technically brilliant machines. My Saturn takes pride of place in my living room as its quite possibly the best looking machine ever built, although the Dreamcast is no slouch in the looks department. A wealth of excellent and quirky games, amazing 1st party titles will always make it a favourite of mine. Great video again, clearing up all those internet misconceptions about the Saturn hardware.
I always thought Sega made the best looking consoles, too. I still think the original Genesis and Sega CD models paired together is the best design ever.
As a Sega Fan through and through I sure do appreciate your videos and history lessons. In the Hunt was a submarine shooter arcade game that no one talks about. Just curious if you Sega Lord ever played that game. I had a few strange titles like Wing Arms, Ghen War, Astal and the then New Rayman. I loved that system and all the Sega Consoles starting with the Sega Master System. I just never got into Nintendo. The Sega Cd the day it came out, The Dreamcast of course. So once again thank you Sega Lord for such entertaining and informative History lessons.
I greatly appreciate the support Tim, but I definitely don't do these videos as any sort of history lesson. I try and put together an educated best guess with the available information. Outside of a few interview blurbs with the powers that be back then, rock solid information that's indisputable is hard to come by. Exact dates, hardware revisions, and even intentions, will likely die with these old engineers and executives. What I do is for fun and passion. I hope to spark debate and curiosity. If I'm proven wrong along the way, so be it. It was worth the effort to try.
i love my Saturn. i wish i had an original copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Past up on purchasing it back in the day when the Saturn was just about dead. Could have picked it up for dirt cheap.
I to was backing up the Saturn way back in 1995 saying that devs just needed more time. the Saturn was in fact more powerful than the PlayStation when utilized properly, evidence with panzer dragoon zwie and virtua fighter 2. great video dude thanks.
Just want to say I love your videos and the Saturn I wish I would have got the support it really deserved back in the day it was amazing hardware but I honestly believe it's pricing is what ruined it. My ex made me sell all my games years ago so just picked up a Saturn again to relive my youth it's still amazing today but game prices are insane to say the least.
I got a Saturn for Xmas in 1996. The majority of my friends got Playstations but I got a nice Saturn deal, it was the Saturn with the second version controllers and I got Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally & Panzer Dragoon 2.
On Boxing Day I went into town and got Sega Worldwide Soccer. Those 4 games kept myself and my friends busy for 2 years and they were constantly asking to swap consoles for a weekend, but I wasn't interested in Playstation really, until MGS came out in 1998.
Exhumed/Powerslave was a great Saturn game, and very different from its PC & PSX counterparts. Saturn Doom however, well, that was just heartbreaking. I mean it was almost 2 years since the PSX version of Doom had been out, and considering how well the Saturn could handle the type of visuals Doom used it really should have been the ultimate console version of Doom, at the time.
The Sega Saturn would easily be in my top five favourite consoles ever list, maybe even the top three.
Still love my Sega Saturn, keep up the good work!
that was a fantastic video, i always wanted to do a saturn episode,, but from here on ill be referring people to this!
About two weeks after I posted this, Hideki Sato was quoted in an interview saying that the Saturn was indeed just a one SH-2 CPU system in the beginning. The second SH-2 was added later as a response to the PS1. I added a pinned comment with some of that interview. I stand by the rest of the video, however. I still feel that VDP2 offered decent transparency support, and I definitely feel VDP2 was the very last thing added to the system.
Sega Lord X yeh but the juicy part of the story was how they altered the Saturn to keep up with the jones's
I've only known one person in my entire life with a Saturn. Still one of my favorite systems I've ever played. Snes, Genesis, Saturn, Ps1 in that order
If devs used SDL rendering on saturn they could do triangle polys. See gamehuts video on sonic r and the chrome logo.
Technically VDP1 can render triangles by making one side of a quad zero size.
Travellers Tales created their software renderer for reasons other than drawing triangles.
Using this line of thought the MegaDrive / Genesis could render polygons with a software renderer on its 68000.... which it in fact did to limited success.
However just because its possible doesn't mean it is viable. A software 3D renderer on the SH2's would not be able to get anywhere near close to matching the number of polygons VDP1 could render.
Pickster UK the 32x prove it.
That was the best Saturn hardware video I ever seen
Appreciate the feedback and support.
A feature that PS1 could never overcome Sega Saturn, was in the polygonal graphics.
While PS1 could only show triangles, Saturn showed squares.
In games like tenchu, being crouched on a fence you realize how all this crooked, by the effort that make the triangles to form a straight figure.
Triangles can be used to make any n-gon, including squares. There are no advantages to having quads in hardware.
Almost all modern 3d hardware deals with triangles only.
Kuddos for being probably the only youtuber ever to state the completely obvious truth. Saturn was always a 3D hardware design, both SH2s were always present, and Sega Arcade tech was always the inspiration. Great presentation of the facts here. Marketing and hype will always win the day, as the Dreamcast's cancelation finally showed, but Internet myths need to be debunked.
There is not_one_source, internal or external to Sega, showing what if any Saturn hardware redesigns there were. Nothing shows what was added "at the last minute" or "in reaction to Playstation." Only rumors generated by Next Generation / Edge persist on the Internet. Rumors that originally claimed the Playstation was displaying 360,000 texture mapped and lit polygons per second and capable of 1 million flat shaded. Saturn's design always looked to me to be a reaction to the Super Nintendo's inclusion of numerous custom chips, including background scaling and rotation processing. Saturn's design always assumed ports of Model 1 and Model 2 games, as well as System 32 quality 2D scaling and rotation. These targets were more than lofty enough for Sega engineers (not "Sega") to come up with the Saturn's design with cost always a factor.
I've always wished that some of Sega's engineers would come forward and speak openly about Saturn's design. That story would be what is needed to set the record straight once and for all.
gamecomparisons also Saturn was always the more powerful of the two, something that many people can't understand to this day...
I don't think so, not in any measureable way anyway. VDP1's poorly documented fillrate being as low as 15Megapixels per second to the GE's 33Megapixels per second doesn't lend much hope to the Saturn being more powerful overall. The highest I've seen VDP1's fillrate guestimated to is 28Megapixels/second, and even then with the Quads versus Tris comparison being apples to oranges that wasn't a solid figure.
Saturn could absolutely trounce PS1 clearly in games that utilized VDP2 to its fullest, but those games had to be very specifically designed engines that would in no way translate to a (now) more traditional triangle rendering API. Without really leaning on VDP2 to fill more than half the screen, VDP1 didn't even have as much texture RAM available as the PS1 GE does. Though I personally think Saturn is better at 8-bit (256color) texture maps than PS1, which heavily favors 4-bit (16-color) textures and full screen dithering.
Both SH-2's could never run the same code at the same time, High and Low speed RAM contentions made this even worse for Saturn optimization. Never being able to utilized both SH2s at 100% each means that 50MIPS+ figure is totally in a vacuum. Nobody thinks the SCUs would ever be used to the same effect as Sony's GE/GTE at blowing ugly little polygons all over the screen (something the PS2's VUs did really well too).
Ultimately the Saturn was "better at" games with 2D backgounds and flat floors than at fully 3D polygonal environments. So Mech Warrior 2, GunGriffon, 3D Fighters, 3D Rail Shooters, 3D Flight Sims, Space Sims, and these types of games were well suited to VDP2 and therefore potentially better on Saturn. Stuff like Metal Gear Solid, Loaded, Shining Force III, Grandia and that style of overhead graphics should have really favored Saturn's approach.
So we really would be looking at 2D games with polygonal characters running around on them, which I would have taken if they looked as good as the Saturn's best offerings of that style. I'd have taken a total take over of Virtual On style games, even to the degree FPSs have taken over today though, so what do I know?
gamecomparisons scu dsp had like high level assembly to utilize it. Why they didn't support low level assembly and C language?
The best video that I have ever seen describing the hardware of the Sega Saturn. All others downplay it as crap. Thanks for your research.