Wow, this explains a lot! I probably have both. Its a disaster and this brought tears to my eyes. Ive always envied people who had ADHD hyperactivity because I have all the chaos but not productivity or energy to overcome the wall of inertia and internal thoughts.
I’m really wondering too, I don’t want to self diagnose but I wish I could pick this man’s brain so bad. I was starting to wonder if I got misdiagnosed with the adhd that presents more inattentively, and had only this instead, except I have horrible executive function, I blurt out unhinged shit that surprise others including myself, have no sense of time or productivity and as fatigued and out of touch as I can be I also am quite hyperactive in unproductive ways. it’s more internal chaos or word vomit. But I hadn’t ever heard of DCS and the symptoms as a whole relate to me just as much if not more than adhd alone. If only my brain would ACTUALLY make a dr appointment instead of just thinking about making it maybe I could find out 💀
if I could make an extremely selfish request I'd really like to see a video specifically about people with the combination of inattentive adhd and CDS but regardless I'm happy I found this channel and this series.
I pretty obviously have both and yes its always felt like I lurch from disaster to disaster, spacing out plus the executive function deficits like awful working memory and just....bouncing off things to randomly do something else has seriously effected my life.
i love how you dont shy away from explaining the complex problem of comorbidity! statistics and correlation and causation is hard to explain and you do a great job explaining it!
You mention that ADHD and CDS are additive in their impairments, but are there perhaps also areas where the two disorders mask each other? For example, conflict shyness and fear of punishment (CDS) vs. confrontational behavior and conduct disorder (ADHD) seem like prime suspects.
Oh cool you do talk about ASD in associated with this CDS, I have adhd/in and ODD, but I’ve always thought I maybe have some mild ASD or something, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. CDS is a very interesting topic and I do feel somewhat relatable to the symptoms, I’ll definitely be following this as more studies come out. Also it’s very impressive that a person can describe the symptoms of a disorder so well without having it yourself (I assume), but it really shows that you’re dedicated and well informed on your work. Many thanks
9:09 in school math used to be pretty easy, but nowadays when I’m counting just a few numbers, or adding up time/hours I’ll use my fingers to keep from getting confused and so I can double check the math even if it should be easy to do in my head, maybe it’s my years out of school (quit in sophomore) but I definitely feel “slow” at times
I can relate to so many of your videos. They REALLY help me understand myself so much better & not be so hard and down on myself. You are putting everything that’s been going on with me and my life finally into words!Thank you!!! I wasn’t able to explain or even understand my brain and actions!!! God bless you!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:42 🧠 *Comorbidity between ADHD and Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)* - Comorbidity statistics between ADHD and ODD. - Negative correlation between CDs symptoms and disruptive disorders like ODD. - ADHD has a high comorbidity rate with ODD, while CDs does not. 02:00 🌌 *CDs and Internalizing Symptoms * - CDs shows a stronger link to internalizing symptoms, particularly depression. - ADHD has its own relationship with depression but is less significant compared to CDs. - Ruminative or obsessive thinking more closely linked with CDs than ADHD. 03:22 😴 *CDs and Social Withdrawal* - CDs is more linked to social withdrawal, shyness, and anxiety than ADHD. - CDs is associated with more reserved and apprehensive social interactions. - CDs may be accounting for certain social relationships more than ADHD. 04:29 📚 *CDs and Learning and Developmental Disorders* - CDs is associated with certain motor learning and writing disorders. - CDs shows higher comorbidity with autistic spectrum disorders compared to ADHD. - ADHD has its own relationship with developmental problems, but CDs shows distinctive associations. 06:03 🎓 *Academic Impairment: CDs vs. ADHD* - Both CDs and ADHD impair school performance but through different mechanisms. - CDs kids may complete work but make more mistakes due to inaccuracy. - ADHD kids often struggle with productivity and amount of work completed. 07:55 👨👩👧👦 *Family and Social Functioning: CDs vs. ADHD* - Parents of CDs children report lower levels of parenting stress compared to ADHD. - CDs children are more socially withdrawn, while ADHD children display disruptive behaviors. - Both disorders contribute to social impairments but manifest differently. 13:11 📊 *Impairment in Coexisting Disorders: CDs and ADHD* - Children with both CDs and ADHD are more impaired than those with either disorder alone. - CDs and ADHD have distinct profiles of impairment across various domains. - Coexistence of CDs and ADHD leads to additive impairments, emphasizing their distinction. Made with HARPA AI
Hmm... I wonder if the tendency for SCT/CDS individuals to get the work done but with more errors is because they fundamentally can't grasp certain details, or if their grasping it requires more time and patience than the fast-paced, results-oriented, do-or-die environments they find themselves in are willing to give. Add to that the heightened shyness and punishment sensitivity, and they could feel rushed into producing and submitting sub-par work just to keep out of trouble, despite knowing they could do better given more time and less pressure. (At least that's what I suspect, looking back at my life as former "gifted" child, diagnosed with ADHD at 39, who may also have SCT/CDS.) Again, thank you so much for your continued research in this area!
I don’t think it is a “can’t grasp the details” because we are stupid, it’s more of a “the details can’t be grasped because the focus hasn’t been properly oriented through special treatment.”
I think a rather large element of this proposed disorder is the brain fog. My mind is so clouded and to make matters worse whatever capacity I have left to focus is turned inwards.
Because of you, Dr. B. I was able to figure out why I felt like an alien! I was 34 when I was diagnosed with ADHD, but the meds just didn't work and it still felt like something was off. That was back when you were just starting to investigate SCT. It felt like that midge have been it, but I couldn't really follow that lead. At 38 I recieved my ASD diagnosis (which really helped explain things). Now at 40, I just finding out that CDS is now more widely recognized. When you said it was co- morbid with ASD, it felt like all the peices came together. Why don't I have meltdowns? Why do I stim so much less? I think the CDS kind of turns down the more explosive symptoms of ASD and ADHD.
I'm getting worried i have CDS now.. I had my adhd inattentive diagnosis last year and i'm trying different medications. It's hard to differentiate these disorders obviously. I'm apparnelt yon the autism spectrum too. Is there really a treatment for CDS?
Hi Dr. Barkley. I have a question: I don’t understand why when you compare CDS to ADHD you’re only comparing it to the classic presentation- not the inattentive type. It would make a much more compelling case if you did, I think…? Or are you trying to quietly make the case that inattentive type doesn’t really exist? Help!
I think most cases of the Inattentive presentation are variants of the combined presentation, likely growing up and losing some hyperactivity. The remainder, about 30-50%, are CDS. See my video on Are there three types of ADHD?
I’m curious how for the people who have both adhd and CDS can present their symptoms differently, because I would have to imagine that if a person has both disorders, there will be a spectrum of differences in how the symptoms co exist
I would think that it very likely has to do with the "impulsivity". If your have ADD with out impulsivity - you don't really forget the possibility of getting hit by a ball as easily. And of course, the impulsivity alone makes a huge different to how impaired you are in your daily life. You are really just presenting that being impulsive does affect many of the things here. Your relationship to your patents, how you handle money and how you do a lot of things. But - you choose what to evaluate in when you made this.
And "inattention" and "hyperactivity" and "impulsivity" is most likely also "additive", even if you them the same disorder. They properly spell out more trouble than if you are only having problems in one or two of theese areas. - Doesnt make them 3 different disorders though. Just like "hypothyroidism" (or anting else). If your are having difficulties with both being tired, gaining weight, being sensitive to cold and muscle ache - then your are properly experiensing a harder time than those who are just having problems with some of these. Its quite simple to understand - and still doesn't make it 4 different disordes.
But here's the thing - my kid (with autism) clearly has very much impulsivity and fit "the classic" ADHD profile - in extreme. And your "CDS". Me - his genetic source, it do fit the inattentive ADD/CDS most in many things. I'm not impulsive - but I have always had problems organising (for a grown woman I simply cannot live up to the normal expectations and have never "been there"), I have great many problems with "remembering" and in that part I have always known that I was wery different, staying on track, being timely and following through.. not that much me. You are simply "splitting me up" here. Even if I at this moment is diagnosed with ADHD (and think the shoe fits) your arguments put me in a box where I'm supposedly only having CDS and my EF problems is suddenly imaginary. And that is coming from a person who is around other people with apparently "real" ADHD and often seeing my self struggle more with this. I should be the best one in the group if I didn't really have ADHD. On the other hand, I'm not "double hard hit" if I have both. I have gone through my childhood and teens with out people notising the ADHD. They're is simply something wrong here. And why should I have 1 diagnosis - and get a kid with 2 completely different ones? Asf is one in quite sure that I don't have. But if this was any other more physical disorder, I don't think people would find it logic that becourse the mother had astma the kid had diabetes and cleft lip. It needs to make sense. I think its more logic that the family has problems with hypothyroidism, but for one it presents with tiredness and gaining weight and the other get muscle ache and is sensitive to the cold.
No, of course they are "not totally alike". Neither are men and women - but we are both humans. If you compare people given the "aspergers diagnosis" with people given the "infantile autism" diagnosis, you will properly also find differences - just because that is what you are looking for. But yet, we are at a point where we are putting those labels away - becourse its "both autism". You even have more women among the ADD (sorry, CDS) group than the ADHD (I mean HID) group - what numbers are we even looking at here? Equally many women to men in each compared group? But again, I don't expect people with ADD to also have troubles stemming from impulsivity.
And here's one in sure that I simply read otherwise. Parents of kids with ADHD actually have higer stress than parents of kids with autism. Now here is an arhument from me, to keep the ADD under the ADHD. First of all - I find that it's a problem that even autism and ADHD are seen as so seperate as they are. They are very much linked in my experience. I get a lot of input from the community. But second - of you manage to pull CDS apart as something separate from ADHD - I don't think that you are helping as much as hurting. Suddently, I will not only have a kid with autism, ADHD and epilepsy - but also CDS. Like any one needs to be described with 4 seperate diagnoses - and counting. It doesn't help understanding - it just adds "yes, now you are sluggish too". Second - then we are a lot of people who suddently have "both ADHD and CDS". And people with only "CDS" will be "cast out" from the ADHD society - it will properly be seen as "not so bad" and be overlooked. And then there is the heredity - where a family already often is having some with ADHD and some with autism - and now they can then add another spice in the mix - instead of saying "listen, we are mostly alike in the difficulties we are having". I don't think that this is doing anything good and I think that with that little differences, we need to have it toghether.
Wow, this explains a lot! I probably have both. Its a disaster and this brought tears to my eyes. Ive always envied people who had ADHD hyperactivity because I have all the chaos but not productivity or energy to overcome the wall of inertia and internal thoughts.
I relate so much, I had to make sure I didn't write this comment.
This. Instead, the chaos and the inability to overcome the inertia leaves me unable to even move.
Relatable
eh, enyv never ends
I’m really wondering too, I don’t want to self diagnose but I wish I could pick this man’s brain so bad. I was starting to wonder if I got misdiagnosed with the adhd that presents more inattentively, and had only this instead, except I have horrible executive function, I blurt out unhinged shit that surprise others including myself, have no sense of time or productivity and as fatigued and out of touch as I can be I also am quite hyperactive in unproductive ways. it’s more internal chaos or word vomit. But I hadn’t ever heard of DCS and the symptoms as a whole relate to me just as much if not more than adhd alone. If only my brain would ACTUALLY make a dr appointment instead of just thinking about making it maybe I could find out 💀
if I could make an extremely selfish request I'd really like to see a video specifically about people with the combination of inattentive adhd and CDS but regardless I'm happy I found this channel and this series.
I pretty obviously have both and yes its always felt like I lurch from disaster to disaster, spacing out plus the executive function deficits like awful working memory and just....bouncing off things to randomly do something else has seriously effected my life.
Well this is enlightening. Seems I most likely got hit with the CDS + ASD + ADHD-IN trifecta. Well, at least knowing is half the battle!
i love how you dont shy away from explaining the complex problem of comorbidity! statistics and correlation and causation is hard to explain and you do a great job explaining it!
You mention that ADHD and CDS are additive in their impairments, but are there perhaps also areas where the two disorders mask each other? For example, conflict shyness and fear of punishment (CDS) vs. confrontational behavior and conduct disorder (ADHD) seem like prime suspects.
Oh cool you do talk about ASD in associated with this CDS, I have adhd/in and ODD, but I’ve always thought I maybe have some mild ASD or something, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. CDS is a very interesting topic and I do feel somewhat relatable to the symptoms, I’ll definitely be following this as more studies come out. Also it’s very impressive that a person can describe the symptoms of a disorder so well without having it yourself (I assume), but it really shows that you’re dedicated and well informed on your work. Many thanks
8:24 oh man idk how many times I’ve had to reread something to actually comprehend what I was staring at
9:09 in school math used to be pretty easy, but nowadays when I’m counting just a few numbers, or adding up time/hours I’ll use my fingers to keep from getting confused and so I can double check the math even if it should be easy to do in my head, maybe it’s my years out of school (quit in sophomore) but I definitely feel “slow” at times
It was a very nice presentation. Very clear and insightful.
It’s always a delight watching your videos.
I can relate to so many of your videos. They REALLY help me understand myself so much better & not be so hard and down on myself.
You are putting everything that’s been going on with me and my life finally into words!Thank you!!! I wasn’t able to explain or even understand my brain and actions!!!
God bless you!
How possible would be for a misdiagnoses of CDS as high funtioning ASD?
Good question
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:42 🧠 *Comorbidity between ADHD and Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)*
- Comorbidity statistics between ADHD and ODD.
- Negative correlation between CDs symptoms and disruptive disorders like ODD.
- ADHD has a high comorbidity rate with ODD, while CDs does not.
02:00 🌌 *CDs and Internalizing Symptoms *
- CDs shows a stronger link to internalizing symptoms, particularly depression.
- ADHD has its own relationship with depression but is less significant compared to CDs.
- Ruminative or obsessive thinking more closely linked with CDs than ADHD.
03:22 😴 *CDs and Social Withdrawal*
- CDs is more linked to social withdrawal, shyness, and anxiety than ADHD.
- CDs is associated with more reserved and apprehensive social interactions.
- CDs may be accounting for certain social relationships more than ADHD.
04:29 📚 *CDs and Learning and Developmental Disorders*
- CDs is associated with certain motor learning and writing disorders.
- CDs shows higher comorbidity with autistic spectrum disorders compared to ADHD.
- ADHD has its own relationship with developmental problems, but CDs shows distinctive associations.
06:03 🎓 *Academic Impairment: CDs vs. ADHD*
- Both CDs and ADHD impair school performance but through different mechanisms.
- CDs kids may complete work but make more mistakes due to inaccuracy.
- ADHD kids often struggle with productivity and amount of work completed.
07:55 👨👩👧👦 *Family and Social Functioning: CDs vs. ADHD*
- Parents of CDs children report lower levels of parenting stress compared to ADHD.
- CDs children are more socially withdrawn, while ADHD children display disruptive behaviors.
- Both disorders contribute to social impairments but manifest differently.
13:11 📊 *Impairment in Coexisting Disorders: CDs and ADHD*
- Children with both CDs and ADHD are more impaired than those with either disorder alone.
- CDs and ADHD have distinct profiles of impairment across various domains.
- Coexistence of CDs and ADHD leads to additive impairments, emphasizing their distinction.
Made with HARPA AI
Appreciate the video.
Hmm... I wonder if the tendency for SCT/CDS individuals to get the work done but with more errors is because they fundamentally can't grasp certain details, or if their grasping it requires more time and patience than the fast-paced, results-oriented, do-or-die environments they find themselves in are willing to give.
Add to that the heightened shyness and punishment sensitivity, and they could feel rushed into producing and submitting sub-par work just to keep out of trouble, despite knowing they could do better given more time and less pressure.
(At least that's what I suspect, looking back at my life as former "gifted" child, diagnosed with ADHD at 39, who may also have SCT/CDS.)
Again, thank you so much for your continued research in this area!
I don’t think it is a “can’t grasp the details” because we are stupid, it’s more of a “the details can’t be grasped because the focus hasn’t been properly oriented through special treatment.”
thanks, very advanced
This whole lecture is a gem❤❤❤
I think a rather large element of this proposed disorder is the brain fog. My mind is so clouded and to make matters worse whatever capacity I have left to focus is turned inwards.
Please!, you need to make video about CDS's medication treatment!!
That is Part VI
Because of you, Dr. B. I was able to figure out why I felt like an alien! I was 34 when I was diagnosed with ADHD, but the meds just didn't work and it still felt like something was off. That was back when you were just starting to investigate SCT. It felt like that midge have been it, but I couldn't really follow that lead. At 38 I recieved my ASD diagnosis (which really helped explain things). Now at 40, I just finding out that CDS is now more widely recognized. When you said it was co- morbid with ASD, it felt like all the peices came together.
Why don't I have meltdowns? Why do I stim so much less? I think the CDS kind of turns down the more explosive symptoms of ASD and ADHD.
I have CDS and ASD as well as explosive meltdowns, so it can happen (unfortunately). But I am usually a very passive person.
I'm getting worried i have CDS now.. I had my adhd inattentive diagnosis last year and i'm trying different medications. It's hard to differentiate these disorders obviously. I'm apparnelt yon the autism spectrum too. Is there really a treatment for CDS?
Hi Dr. Barkley. I have a question: I don’t understand why when you compare CDS to ADHD you’re only comparing it to the classic presentation- not the inattentive type. It would make a much more compelling case if you did, I think…? Or are you trying to quietly make the case that inattentive type doesn’t really exist? Help!
I think most cases of the Inattentive presentation are variants of the combined presentation, likely growing up and losing some hyperactivity. The remainder, about 30-50%, are CDS. See my video on Are there three types of ADHD?
@@russellbarkleyphd2023 thank you 🙏🏽 I will check out that video.
I’m curious how for the people who have both adhd and CDS can present their symptoms differently, because I would have to imagine that if a person has both disorders, there will be a spectrum of differences in how the symptoms co exist
Is there a link between CDS and eating dissorders?
Not that I have seen yet. There is between ADHD and eating disorders, though.
Part of me wonders if those with CDS would be more prone to ARFID.
But.. If it's like ADHD gives opposition - and "CDS" doesn't, what happens when "half" has both? They just get normal tendancies? Or 🤔
I would think that it very likely has to do with the "impulsivity". If your have ADD with out impulsivity - you don't really forget the possibility of getting hit by a ball as easily. And of course, the impulsivity alone makes a huge different to how impaired you are in your daily life. You are really just presenting that being impulsive does affect many of the things here. Your relationship to your patents, how you handle money and how you do a lot of things. But - you choose what to evaluate in when you made this.
What was that 🤔 You just "skipped" over the VERY interesting part where ADHD + CDS is less impairing in childcare than ADHD alone?
It wouldn't surprise me, but it'll still cause problems down the line
And "inattention" and "hyperactivity" and "impulsivity" is most likely also "additive", even if you them the same disorder. They properly spell out more trouble than if you are only having problems in one or two of theese areas. - Doesnt make them 3 different disorders though. Just like "hypothyroidism" (or anting else). If your are having difficulties with both being tired, gaining weight, being sensitive to cold and muscle ache - then your are properly experiensing a harder time than those who are just having problems with some of these. Its quite simple to understand - and still doesn't make it 4 different disordes.
And you don't think the "impairment" in sport could afveksling have more to do with bad motor control and the fear of getting a ball in your face? 🤔
Majority career cant have ADHD & Aspergers newer latest all the the same DSM5 ASD " impossible MS&couple diseases disabilities "
But here's the thing - my kid (with autism) clearly has very much impulsivity and fit "the classic" ADHD profile - in extreme. And your "CDS". Me - his genetic source, it do fit the inattentive ADD/CDS most in many things. I'm not impulsive - but I have always had problems organising (for a grown woman I simply cannot live up to the normal expectations and have never "been there"), I have great many problems with "remembering" and in that part I have always known that I was wery different, staying on track, being timely and following through.. not that much me. You are simply "splitting me up" here. Even if I at this moment is diagnosed with ADHD (and think the shoe fits) your arguments put me in a box where I'm supposedly only having CDS and my EF problems is suddenly imaginary. And that is coming from a person who is around other people with apparently "real" ADHD and often seeing my self struggle more with this. I should be the best one in the group if I didn't really have ADHD. On the other hand, I'm not "double hard hit" if I have both. I have gone through my childhood and teens with out people notising the ADHD. They're is simply something wrong here. And why should I have 1 diagnosis - and get a kid with 2 completely different ones? Asf is one in quite sure that I don't have. But if this was any other more physical disorder, I don't think people would find it logic that becourse the mother had astma the kid had diabetes and cleft lip. It needs to make sense. I think its more logic that the family has problems with hypothyroidism, but for one it presents with tiredness and gaining weight and the other get muscle ache and is sensitive to the cold.
No, of course they are "not totally alike". Neither are men and women - but we are both humans. If you compare people given the "aspergers diagnosis" with people given the "infantile autism" diagnosis, you will properly also find differences - just because that is what you are looking for. But yet, we are at a point where we are putting those labels away - becourse its "both autism". You even have more women among the ADD (sorry, CDS) group than the ADHD (I mean HID) group - what numbers are we even looking at here? Equally many women to men in each compared group? But again, I don't expect people with ADD to also have troubles stemming from impulsivity.
And here's one in sure that I simply read otherwise. Parents of kids with ADHD actually have higer stress than parents of kids with autism. Now here is an arhument from me, to keep the ADD under the ADHD. First of all - I find that it's a problem that even autism and ADHD are seen as so seperate as they are. They are very much linked in my experience. I get a lot of input from the community. But second - of you manage to pull CDS apart as something separate from ADHD - I don't think that you are helping as much as hurting. Suddently, I will not only have a kid with autism, ADHD and epilepsy - but also CDS. Like any one needs to be described with 4 seperate diagnoses - and counting. It doesn't help understanding - it just adds "yes, now you are sluggish too". Second - then we are a lot of people who suddently have "both ADHD and CDS". And people with only "CDS" will be "cast out" from the ADHD society - it will properly be seen as "not so bad" and be overlooked. And then there is the heredity - where a family already often is having some with ADHD and some with autism - and now they can then add another spice in the mix - instead of saying "listen, we are mostly alike in the difficulties we are having". I don't think that this is doing anything good and I think that with that little differences, we need to have it toghether.