Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land?
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- For more commentary on this issue, read the beginning of Elan Journo’s book here, for free: bit.ly/3QABEO2
ARI’s resources on Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East (bit.ly/arimideastresources).
𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘑𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘦 𝘋𝘦𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘴 by Elan Journo explains the essential nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, what has fueled it for so long, and what justice demands of us to solve it. Get your copy here: amzn.to/3s26aXp
Failing to Confront Islamic Totalitarianism: For twenty years after 9/11, the Ayn Rand Institute predicted that prevailing ideas about morality would undercut our foreign policy and cripple us in action. Those predictions have proven correct. Get your copy here: amzn.to/46svNjg
==
In this episode of New Ideal Live, Elan Journo and Nikos Sotirakopoulos challenge the misleading narrative of the shrinking Palestinian lands and the claim that Israel has allegedly stolen them. They explore the history of how the Israeli territories were lawfully acquired, the Palestinians’ repeated failures to form an enduring, peaceful state, and the broader philosophical questions of what moral premises are necessary to validate any claim to statehood.
Among the topics covered:
● The dishonest narrative of the “shrinking Palestine” maps;
● The documented history of how individuals acquired the land through trade;
● The Arab rejection of the two-state UN partition plan;
● How the very idea of a partition plan ignored the moral dimension of the Palestinian claim for statehood;
● Why the issue is not fundamentally about land but the type of society being established;
● How Israel ended up occupying the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights;
● How the flawed “land for peace” policy exposed the impossibility of a peaceful Palestinian state;
● The fact that the Palestinians' goal has never been to build a free, prosperous society.
Mentioned in this podcast are Journo’s What Justice Demands (www.amazon.com/What-Justice-D...) and ARI’s resources on Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East (newideal.aynrand.org/aris-res....
The podcast was recorded on October 26, 2023.
0:00:00 Introduction
0:01:43 Dishonesty of “shrinking Palestine”
0:06:35 How the land was bought
0:07:58 The Arab rejection of the two-state UN plan
0:11:40 Morality of the Palestinian claim for statehood
0:19:29 It’s about the type of society, not land
0:22:04 Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights
0:25:12 The flaws of the “land for peace” policy
0:30:03 The Palestinians’ real goal
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For more commentary on this issue, read the beginning of Elan Journo's book here, for free: bit.ly/3QABEO2
Rachel Corrie.
The discussion while including historical facts, did omit significant details that would alter the conclusions arrived at in your discussion. I'd read Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar, books or listen to his talks to get an objective and more complete truth. Peace.
Based on the ignorance that he displayed in this video, I'll pass
@@Jay-eo3wl defeated by whom?
@@Bearded.Stranger Finklestein is required reading for anyone discussing this topic.
The fact they didn't mention Zionism, or the Nakba, is a great indication that they're leaving out large chunks of the story.
Let's debunk the term "Palestinian" in the first instance. The demographics of the area that comprises modern Israel had a total population of 300,000 people in its entirety and was desolate. Most of the majority Arab population were Bedouin and Druze. At that time, everyone living in that region was called Palestinian including Christians, Muslims and Jews (who maintained a continuous presence prior to and continuing after the Roman expulsion." The term "Palestinian" didn't derive from the existence of a previous sovereign state called Palestine populated by predecessors of modern-day Palestinians because there never was a Palestinian country called Palestine. The only sovereign state that ever existed in the area was Judean. The name "Palestine" was given to this region by the Romans who wanted to eradicate its Judean character after the Bar Kochba revolution. The Jews returned to the land after thousands of years of persecution culminating in the late 19th centuries during the pogroms that took place in the Pale of Russian settlement when Jews began purchasing land in Ottoman Palestine. They began to drain the swamps and irrigate the deserts bringing life back to the land, drawing Arabs from surrounding Arab countries. Moreover, when the English took over the Palestine Mandate, pursuant to the Balfour declaration it allowed Jews to migrate to the area along with Arabs from surrounding states. However, after violence erupted in Palestine, they curtailed Jewish immigration while at the same time allowing hundreds of thousands of Arabs to migrate between the years of 1918-1948. The idea that the Jews occupied a country that had been populated by Palestinian Arabs "for generations" is a myth.
But the entirety of the Jewish people never completely left the land there have been Jewish people there from the beginning of written history maybe before that
@@jillthompson1248 Absolutely. The question that people raise in regard to that is whether European Jews actually descend from the Jews of antiquity and the definitive answer derived from genetic study is that they do
Exactly, right! That is the true history of Palestine. If you look at the flag for that region, pre-1947, there's a BIG Star of David in the middle; NOT a cresent Moon.
bingo
Finaly someone that knows the real history
One point that didn't come up in this video is that when Israel made peace with Egypt, the Egyptians insisted on getting beck every last square inch of the Sinai peninsula, yet they were quite adamant not to take the Gaza strip back to their control.
ZIONISTS TERRORISTS 🇮🇱 supporters?
Epstein importance to Israel election? Explain it? Terrorist supoorter
Which means, as they've made peace with Israel under these and no other conditions, that the Gaza strip is not Israeli occupied, but Israeli posession.
@@verar5844 This is what the Egyptians and the PLO thought, but quite frankly, that's rubbish. When you make peace with another country, and dispense with territory in the process, you won't be in a position to say, I demand for this territory to be dealt with like this and that. Either you make peace, and then no longer have any say concerning given up territory, or you don't make peace.
Yes, the Egyptians basically hated dealing with the Palestinians in Gaza. They still feel that way.
As a GIS cartographer, I know how powerful maps can be. While it's essentially impossible to be completely honest with a map, there will always be some information that is omitted and a 2D plane can never represent a 3D ellipsoid (the Earth) completely accurately. It is however, the duty of the one making the map to reduce the amount of dishonesty present in the map, to communicate extremely clearly what their map represents.
However, often times there are those who see maps as a tool to push their own agenda. Sad as it is to see.
'The 9 dashed line' comes to mind 😏
You can tell just by looking at the map's legend. They're comparing "settlements" for one, but "lands" for the other.
Yes. The map actually shows several things. It shows proposed, hypothetical states, and is shows "Arab" vs "Jewish" land control. It's important to remember that Arab Muslims having been displaced or disposessed is incontrovertible, so making it about a misleading legend on some arbitrary map is disingenuous. They argue the map is a red herring, to use it as a red herring to insert their own agenda into it. They dispute one thing about a map (the legend) in order to claim everyone in Israeli held territories are happy, wonderful, prosperous, good, and just. It's really fascinating how they suggest that's all in this map, while saying the map is without any value.
You've touched the main point here! A 3d map of misleading Hamas agenda would have been much better!
Nice impartial , and scientific reply.
He calls them Arabs but doesn't say they were Arab jews. Every country in the Middle East had Arab jews living there. Example would be the Yemen jews, 70,000 immigrated to Israel in the late 1940s. The East European jews were city dwellers and needed farmers to work the land.
they're also not Arabs, DNA studies show that Palestinians are actually Canaanites, even Tel Aviv university confirmed that both Jews and Palestinians are blood brothers
what else he lied about?
Its far from being true, and even antisamatic, the jews got expelled from every arab country in 1948 after the arab started a war to destroy the state of Israel, chack history before you go on a propaganda lies talking points
Also, you forgot to mention that the reason Israel did not give Gaza back to Egypt was because Egypt didn't want it back, and from what I learned they actually threatened to back out of the deal if Israel did not take Gaza.
FACTS!!!
They didn't want Gaza back for VERY good reasons...they owned it long enough to know that the people were trouble...
@@andrewlisciandrello6920 Also forgot to mention that after the Arab countries attacked Israel and lost in 48, they expelled some 800,000 Jews from their own countries.
@@andrewlisciandrello6920 you delude yourself or you lie! Before 1948 'Palestinian' meant all people in Palestine , which was a larger geographical area tha Israel and included all jews , christians and arabs. the word is a colonial term given first by the roman emporer Hadrian. It is a geopolitical term and is NOT a term to define a race of people! very few of the Gazans if any were ever original inhabitants of the area as original inhabitants! they came from Crete and supplanted Egyptians and jews 1500 years ago
@@peterkratoska4524 very good point. we hear nothing about the arab world ethnic cleansing of all jews and most christians !
The problem is a lot of the people debating this issue have no knowledge of history.
The problem isn't so much that people don't know, or ignore history, the problem is that people hide facts and lie by omission. - notice this video doesn't talk about any illegal settlements. - the reason that the areas around Gaza were not well defended is that much of the IDF had been moved to the West Bank, with an aim to "protect settlers"
Precisely. They rely on slogans and propaganda.
Rand was a j r4t
Yes. Especially the people interviewed here. N. Finklestein already showed the deception.
Any trusted link of the history i can read..?.. i really want to know and undertand. Thanks
It feels like a complicated bit of context is being missed here. There is an idea being snuck in, that the British rule of Palestine was uncontested and that colonial rule is somehow seen as just. Moreover, that as lehitimate holders of the land, that Britain was entitled to do whatever they saw fit with the region.
This isn't true. I refer you to the number of countries across the globe that celebrate their independence from British rule dating from the post war period.
Whilst, Palestine was not a sovereign nation as such, it was occupied by a foreign power, it did have people with a national Identity who were striving for independence from foreign rule.
It was also a consistent trend in the past war period that colonial powers would cede control of their colonies to the resident population.
So, it is not unexpected that the people of Palestine would expect the same treatment. However, this did not come to pass.
Whilst no one would deny that displaced Jewish people, who had just been through the most horrific experiences imaginable, needed the support of the international community to rebuild their lives. It was naive to seek to build a new state defined by people of a single ethnicity on top of a nation of people who are already resisting the rule of the foreign government that was granting these permissions.
Palestinian resistance did not begin in 1947. The founding of Israel was, from a Palestinian perspective, a continuation of colonial oppression at a time when people's across the world were in the process of being liberated.
In a sense you are right to say that the history of the region is more complex. But you are also guilty of oversimplifying it for your own political narrative.
I agree completely!
I'd like to add that in 1915 the British High Commissioner Henry McMahon promised Arab independence to the Sharif of Mecca if the Arabs would help them against the Ottoman empire - what they did (World War I).
Two years later, in 1917, the British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour promised to establish a home to Jewish people in Palestine (Balfour Declaration).
After the war, the land was split between France and Great Britain (creating new colonies). That's why Palestine formally never belonged to the Palestinian people but to GB - and before WW I to the Ottoman empire.
Everything this outlet does is agenda based. Facts are secondary..
yes, but if you think of it in terms of religions, it makes sense. You have a continuous chain of muslim rule broken by jewish rule
@@ventriloquistmagician4735 Islam did not come into existence until the 7th Century AFTER the Jesus' Death and Resurrection. Also don't forget the Rule of Roman Empire over region 63 BC to Jan 23, 635 AD (CE).
@@davidwergin5665 The Jews still lived in Judea (not necessarily Jerusalem) until Islam
I thought Israel was 3000 years old and 75 years young
one more thing the maps don't show is the Arab population inside the state of Israel - today there are around 2 million of them, all Israeli citizens.
That's true, but ask any Palestinian and they will tell you those people are not true Arabs.
Bullsh*t!
They are Palestinian citizens of Israel, they are not simply Arab, they are Palestinian, no more and no less than any Palestinian who left present day Israel in 1948
@@jasonfobes5980Of course! they have members of parliament , representation in the Supreme Court, exactly the same property, education ,work and so on.. rights as the Jewish, Christian,Druze etc population.
@@alyskabbfurthermore they get the benefit of not having to serve in the army .
Don't forget also that by 1979 Egyptian president Anwar Sadat was in favor of the UN 2-state solutions and for normalization with Israel and then fundamentalists in his own military murdered him for it.
Rabin was also in favour of a two-state solution and also murdered by a fundamentalist on "his" side.
@@markanderson3870 There is a theme there and a lot of people ignore it.
A one state solution could have worked in the past, but with all the terrorism and crimes against humanity, I wouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon.
And then the Jordanians met with the palestinians and the palestinians murdered the king of Jordan, and that's why Jordan/Egypt won't take refugees.
Don't forget the Jews have 0 claim to the lands people already inhabiting for over 1000 years. Those entities, especially the UN, you listed have no right to dictate anything either. What's your point again?
This is a well reasoned discussion, but it is clearly partisan to hold up one set of beliefs over another . It suffers by guilt of omission of many facts as well.
they try to replay to 70 years of lies about Israel stealing land and being always the victim, what do you expect. They also forgot to say many things that proves their point of view.
Was there ever a King of Palestine? A government of some sort with internationally recognized treaties or trade agreements? A currency?
It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled.
(Samuel Langhorne Clemens)
This so called expert lost me at no land was stolen!
Really!!
STOP…..
800,000 plus Palestinians who lived in Palestine and owned property fled for fear of being killed and lost all their lands and possessions. They also lost their right to return.
No compensation was ever made.
Till this day, the Zionists are stealing land especially in West Bank via their illegal occupation and settlements.
Over this period the Jewish population of Palestine, composed principally of immigrants, increased from less than 10 per cent in 1917 to over 30 per cent in 1947.
The map signifies exactly that. How Jews comprised 10% of population at end of World War One
That's deep bro
@@primarchvakarian589 It's also directly quoted from Mark Twain (allegedly, and originally) without credit. If I were an English teacher, I'd be disappointed!
Those who believe what this Journo nobody is saying without providing a single citation are the ones who have been fooled. Read history books, don't listen to VPs of think tanks
yeah like take for example ANYONE on this RUclips sub taking an 'Ayn Rand Institute' seriously
What was Palestine like before Israel?
Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem.
Funny thing is Jews living in Palestine before Israel, are _still_ living in the occupied territories of Palestine. They reject the Zionist state of Israel.
In 70ad Rome deported all the Jews and then renamed Israel to Palestine to demoralize the Jewish folks.
There is no such thing as a Palestinian....they are Arabs
What was it like? In 1244 when Jews were massacred & expelled from Jerusalem by the Khwarazmiyya Muslims was that because of Israel? When the Ottoman ruler of Jerusalem Murad Bey raped & slaughtered thousands of Jews in Jerusalem & Hevron in 1517 was that because of Israel? When whole communities of Jews were murdered & exiled to Cyprus in 1576 was that because of Israel? When Jews were murdered, raped & tortured during the Jerusalem persecutions from 1623-40 was that because of Israel? When Jews were raped & murdered en masse in 1660 during the Tzfat & Tiberias pogroms was that because of Israel? In 1720 when Ashkenazim were butchered & exiled from Jerusalem & Hurva synagogue was destroyed was that because of Israel? In 1775 when Jews were once again murdered & raped en masse during another Hevron pogrom, was that because of Israel? When Jews were again butchered & raped in 1799 during another Tzfat pogrom, was that because of Israel?
In 1820 when Haim Farhi was murdered & Jews were enslaved was that because of Israel? In 1834 when Jews were again raped & butchered in Tzfat, Hevron & Jerusalem was that because of Israel? In 1851 when R' Avraham S. Z. Zoref was murdered in Jerusalem for the crime of being a Jew, was that because of Israel? In 1873 when Sara Rivlin was raped & murdered, along with her baby who was also murdered, was that because of Israel? And, the 1920 Jerusalem massacre, the 1921 Jaffa massacre, the 1929 Hevron, Tzfat & Jerusalem massacres, the 1936 massacre in Beersheba, the massacres during the 1936-39 Arab riots... was that because of Israel? I can go over the nearly 1000 historically recorded instances of Mizrahi Jews being butchered, raped & tortured throughout the rest of the Middle East & North Africa over the last 1400 years too if you like. When you claim there was "peace before 1948" implying Israel & Zionism are the problem, all you're proving is that you know less than nothing about 1400 year history of Musta'ravi & Mizrahi Jews being persecuted under one Muslim rule after another. You can regurgitate your intellectually lazy propaganda narrative & relish in your imaginary sense of moral superiority, but you cannot change empirical history corroborated by thousands of historigraphical sources. Sorry habibi, but you cannot gaslight the descendants of Musta'ravi & Mizrahi Jews in Israel with your pseudo-history.
Yes, and especially in Jerusalem but not only there, the Crusades killed more Christians, Jihad killed more Muslims and Zionism killed more Jews. They were each antithesis to their own religion.
@@josephbrewster1169Zionism killed more Jews? Than what, jihadis and Christians?
13:30 Ridiculous claim that a good society or a just society is the basis for who is entitled to a claim for statehood. Of course we want good and just societies, but we have to wait until we can provide perfect justice before we are entitled to statehood?!😂 Well, what can I expect from the Ayn Rand folks?
What would a more accurate map #1 look like? Who has legal title to the green sections in map 1 prior to 1947? What parts of the map were unlivable? To what extent was the land tribal? Was the concept of private property universally understood? What ethnic group or nationality controlled the green sections of the map?
To my understanding, the first map doesn't show national ownership at all, all of the area, white and green, was owned (temporarily) by the Brits, the green area is quite literary "everywhere individual Jews didn't own", not discerning any Christian or other owned land, also not discerning unsettled land.
Also during the era the map portrays, "palestinians" didn't exist. Just like "Americans" didn't exist during the medieval period.
ALL of those maps basically just show a large area of historical Judea.
No matter who lives where, The whole land is Jewish land.
This is why we English "gave the land back" to the Jews. Interesting choice of words, don't you think?
@@Diablo_Himself Wasn't Judea a Roman province at the time of Christ? Should you give it back to Italy/Vatican?
I'm done looking ass-backwards to some arbitrary point in time. There are losers throughout history. What the "Palestinians" have done since 1947 is unworthy of respect.
@@Diablo_Himself please explain where Canaan was and who were the Canaanites.
Need to go back many years prior to 1947 when the area was called Judaea. The Roman Empire controlled most of the area at that time and after several conflicts between the Jews and their controlling Roman’s, the empire decided to change the name to philistean which later became Palestine.
It's Hebrew and Jewish Land. Rome never took the Land of Israel.
@@JimBrave-ri1oc
?? Not what i understand, even the Bible states rome ruled over Israel, they had sibordinate kings, governors and leading figures to help run not only Israel but all it's territories.
Never forget that the Ottomans took the Israelites and push them out of the country that was way after the Romans did their trick and guess what the Autumn Empire was mainly dealing with that country would be Iran connect to dots it's not hard
@@JimBrave-ri1oc yes they did. they colonized it
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Gospel [Last Testament]:
I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Quran [Last Testament]:
Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].
Interesting video on a well known and distributed set of maps. I appreciate the perspective being presented and discussed. However I’m not sure about the strength of the arguments being shown:
1. “Nobody was there” is an old colonial view of conquering territory. Famously the “Terra Nullius” claim for Australia. There are huge swathes of unoccupied land in many countries but it doesn’t mean people can just help themselves.
2. “Who builds a better country?” is a hugely subjective way of determining statehood. By what measure and for whom? There must be a number of countries that don’t deserve to exist by in the view of some. Does that mean they should be conquered and rebuilt in the image of the conqueror?
Two excellent points.
Very true.
I would suggest that anyone could build a better country with enough interest free loans from America. Also, if the "better" metric is shiny buildings and you look the other way on human rights issues, then UAE has done a marvelous job with slave labor.
Just be aware that you have philosophical disagreements with these people and you are assuming that your philosophical views are the correct ones. You might think some things are a matter of subjective preference whereas they think there is an objective standard of evaluation. You might think morality is subjective, relative or mystical whereas they think there is an objective morality with 'Life' as the standard of value. If you want to understand their point of view you should look in to Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism.
1. Is something bad because it was attitude of colonialist/imperialists? Was the essence of colonialists like the British even a negative thing? Obviously there are things to criticize but in the context at their time they were probably the most positive thing the world had going for it. Why should you not have the right to settle unsettled lands, assuming you are not violating anyone's rights? Not to say it is worth going to war over it but I think everyone has a right to settle unsettled land and defend themselves and their property.
A country by definition is occupied land but just because land is occupied by a state doesn't mean the state "owns" it and if no one has settled the land, it has no owner yet. "Australia" the continent was not even a country at the time the british arrived and I assume the native people didn't even have any concept of property so the land was neither occupied nor owned by someone. The british themselves should obviously recognize and respect the rights of the natives who lived there as long as it's reciprocal.
2. You are assuming it is subjective. They would argue there are objective standards for what is a good state by the standard of human life and for human individuals living there. They would argue that a country is not an end in itself but a means to an end. They would argue there are definitely regimes that don't deserve to exist like North Korea, Venezuela, Iran and in the past the regimes of for example Soviet Union, Nazigermany etc. It does not mean free countries should conquer other lands and definitely not for sacrificial reasons for the sake liberating the oppressed people in other countries. They believe sustainable change can only come through ideas. In contexts like the defeat of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan when war was necessary anyway, I think they would support free countries to impose the values of a free country and system of government, at least partly to sustain peace. Free countries don't go to war with each other because people are busy living and trading to their mutual benefit.
@@MartinAndersson715 "and you are assuming that your philosophical views are the correct ones." Actually, It's AynRandInstitute who is assuming that their philosophy is the correct one and all Danicooke346 is doing is pointing out that AynRandInstitute might be mistaken about those assumptions.
Also, you don't need a sense of property to occupy a territory
aNd About "They would argue there are definitely regimes that don't deserve to exist" First you need to demonstrate the people who live in the Palestinian territory do not actually deserve to live there, something the video fail to do.
I think that with all disinformation around, there should be a class in every school about the Middle East conflict with correct information.
It would really help if you could show us maps/ pictures to support what you are saying.
The whole video is about how complex it is to map because there was no State or Collective entity. The conflict is of primarily one of ideology. I have been there and in my truly humble opinion what is missing is love. Seriously.
HAMAS seems incapable love.
Well they did. This was about that map and the growth of Israeli territory.
@@profitgeoff4313 My take is that they are talking primarily about how the map progression is deceptive and fundamentally fails historically and contextually.
@@davidwergin5665 I agree. There are definite reasons for the changes that are ignored, either via ignorance or sheer deception.
It's sad that we need to upload and view history lessons on RUclips now while the Elite Colleges are silent to their students.
Jew-ish europeans are genetically europeans not semitic like arabs and middle eastern jews. so why did david grun (changed his name to be david ben gurion in order to sound like osama ben laden the semitic man) come from Plonks, Pland to Palestine for stealing their land and for the palestinians holocaust???
It's called suppression of the truth. It's not just sad, it's rooted in evil.
Well, at least you can get the education somewhere for free. :)
Elite colleges aren't silent; they spew lies
It's truly sad and embarrassing.
Many trust these maps without a clue about the region's history. The map makers displayed such a lack of honesty or competence that they omitted Egypt and Jordan's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and made no reference to the Jews expelled from Gaza and the West Bank, along with the estimated 850,000 Jews expelled from Arab nations-a figure comparable to the number of early Palestinians refugees.
I've tried to assess the actual evidence, and it's far more difficult, with contradictory evidence and the UN having some of the only reliable demographics from the time--which are themselves inconclusive. But these maps are nowhere close to reality. They're maps for persuasion, not education.
Thank you for giving me more information to digest and consider in what is a very controversial topic. I've been wary of all the various media and sources that seem to be driven by agenda, so it's definitely challenging to make objective sense of it all.
Thanks again and have a nice day.
Look up ‘Political Islam’ warner
Exactly. Where is the context? People are so dumb
@@Byorin The problem is that many books are politically divided into camps of rhetorical echo chambers that cherry-pick history and ignore points against their bias. Then, when you find the truly evidence-based content, it's far more complex and messy. But at least it helps you differentiate between pathological lier and the deluded versus those attempting to make sense in an honest way.
LOL! “The Map Makers … honesty & competence…”
Islam teaches its adherents that it is Good to Lie to the infidels 😮
Excellent historical review. It gives me actual information to share with friends who have been bamboozled by that first map. Thank you.
People making points like these two, don't call out or address the hard facts of the situation. You can label it however you want, call it whatever you want to call it.... People were kicked off land they lived on and now their descendants are cornered, fenced into little areas and treated like 2nd class human beings.
So when those same people did it to the Jews it was ok ya? Muslim Arabs are not native to land of Judea. They are offspring of Arab Muslim invaders and colonizers. If Israelis have the power to take back whats rightfully theirs, so be it. None of you are crying about what Muslims did and are doing to Jews, Christians and other religious minorities in Muslim countries. None of you are crying about the actual genocide in Nigeria where Muslims are massacring Nigerian Christians en masse. You're all hypocrites with a biased agenda.
But why put the responsibility only with Israël? Israël was defensing itself against invaders like Egypt, Jordan and Syria and these invaders used these Palestinian lands do attack Israël. Why aren't people putting the blame or responsibility on these 3 invading countries? Should Israël just have accepted this invasion?
@@bertderauw8758 in 1967, israel initiated the 6 day war after border scirmiches with syria (highly believed to be started by israel) and then bombed a canal of syrias, which egypt responded to by blocking israeli trade routes, then israel declared war on egypt, syria, and lebanon
The main thing that this shows is that all of the peace loving, decent people all over the world have been stood upon by corrupt governments who don’t care about them or their welfare. It is extremely sad this world we are living in 🥺
God will change everything for the better in the kingdom he has promised us..
God refers to this land as “my land”
In the book of Ezekiel
@@George-vu7xh Part of a comic called the bible
@@englishalan222Be sure to tell God that when you have your face-to-face meeting, when you see Him as He is.
Points you overlooked mentioning is that in addition to Israel, Egypt also imposed a blockade to Gaza after the election of Hamas and them rejecting peace. Also the conflicts Palestinians instigated in neighboring Arab countries (Black September, Lebanon Civil War, etc.)
Hamas is part of the Muslim botherhood movement?
This is ALWAYS ignored - the “palestinians” were no different to the Jordanians or Lebanese when they were within their borders - while the young children themselves are blameless, as a “people” the “palestinians” have only ever lived to cause the suffering of others. They have never even considered becoming a legitimate state, none of their “allies” have ever attempted to help them establish one, they are on the GODDAMN MEDITERRANEAN for fucks sake - not sure how much you know about history but that’s generally considered a good opening position for a civilization, but no, they have rejected all opportunities of every kind except the opportunity to be the spearhead of Islamism against ANY Jewish state. I believe this conflict will be the dividing line of the modern world, if my fellow Americans can’t get behind the idea that we should ensure the Jews are not eradicated then as far as I’m concerned they are no longer my countrymen and I abandon them to whatever fate awaits them - God bless Israel and may he guard them and keep them safe in this dark time…
Translation. Its a terrorist camp. Always has been. The leaders of the surrounding areas openly say that.
Palestine(philistines) is a terrorist camp, theyve rejected numerous peace deals. Its the only reason for its existence.
After the previous king of Jordan caved and allowed them into his country, the Palestinians began kidnapping and violence to the extent that he said “never again!” Wherever the Palestinians go, chaos and violence ensues
So in other words, this video is complete biased bullcrap and should be ignored by anyone with half a brain.
Yes, there's no question about it.
The answer is yes. You're welcome.
What is interesting about all this is that so many put forward this idea of Palestinians being some predecessor peoples. The "native" Arabs of the "Palestinian" area are actually Negev Bedouins, who are frequently persecuted by the Palestinian movement. They are only allowed citizenship in Israel - the PA refuses to recognise them as people - or in Jordan, the nationality of most "Palestinian" Arabs (keep in mind, Jordan is the easternmost area of Mandate Palestine. The region it was in was called Transjordan - meaning across the Jordan - and was the "Arab" allocation in the Balfour Declaration and WWI era agreements with the Hashemites). Now, the Jews of the Negev and the Bedouins of the Negev tended to coexist rather well (the Bedouins are traditionally desert nomads, whereas the Jews tended to live in established villages - a point that is one of the few contentions between Bedouin Israelis and Jewish Israelis today, where western civilisation doesn't really account for nomads well) - but these maps of "Palestinian" land never even recognise other Arab groups with far longer histories in the region than the "Palestinians"! Which rubbishes the argument it's Arab vs Israeli.
I knew that the Arabs living in Israel were mostly Christian, Bedouin and Druze but the rest of the information is new to me.Thank you
Wow, where did you quote this new history? Again, historical revisions
Well in the Bible the Israelites came from Aegean modern day Syria to Canaan modern day Israel. And the philistines came from Crete modern day Greece to Canaan modern day Israel. They both arrived to Canaan ie modern day Israel around same time the Bible says. The philistines were always trying to kill the Israelites God called them heathens and a thorn in Israelites side. And when they came back from exodus from Egypt the trying to kill the Israelites continued. And this time with other groups ie arab groups hating them too. The Israelites and thr philistines were the Canaanites the ppl of Canaan. And Egypt ruled Canaan 350-400 years many of the Gazans have a lot of Egyptian blood. It seems the Palestinians in Gaza are more of Egyptian descent. And the Palestinians that never left Israel are a mix of Greek and Arab.
@@rhodaberger7262 This is false. Ethnic Palestinian Muslims (if we use that term anachronistically) have been the vast bulk of region's population since at least the mid-1300s. In the British Census in 1917, Christians were roughly 70,000 people whereas the combined Muslim population was roughly 525,000 people. If we remove the Bedouins and Druze from that number, we should conservatively still have 450,000 ethnic Palestinian Muslims.
@@oremfrien So you're saying the muslims are settler colonials and should be removed.
no?
then the jews aren't either. Simple as.
What I’m very surprised to see left out of this discussion regarding the importance of context is the fact that it leaves out the 4/5 of British Mandate Palestine that included ALL of Jordan and a small part of Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. And that doesn’t include the French Mandate.
Because the mandate had no real legal standing. It was a hoax.
Apparently many Arabs from Trans Jordania moved west after 1922 ?
Arabs no Palestinians then
@@phillipweyers8915 You mean refugee Palestinians.
Apparently under what was deemed as a legal document, the Arabs demanded all the land be divided to the Arabs themselves with no Jewish state or land. The British Empire verbally agreed to these terms & conditions with the ambassador for the Palestinian people. It never came to fruition because back in Briton (spelt at the time) denied this clause. Ultimately this led to the Zionists & the Rothchilds demands to give land to the Jewish people who were expelled from the middle east & Europe during WW1 & WW2. It was under the British Empire, through Arab nepotism, land was given to the Arab leaders uncle and son which was as you rightly say, Egypt and Syria.
yes they came for the well paying jobs of the British@@phillipweyers8915
I haven't heard you prove your claim.
Most informative in plain language.
I profess to know my history of Palestine-Israel from reading but here it is put simply and I sure do appreciate this summary.
From here 🔛directly to the ears and eyes and minds of those who haven’t done due diligence in research and march to the tune of propaganda and distortion of the facts.
I don’t condone war and hate.Hate starts in the wombs of the Gaza’s Islamic peoples. It’s sad and distressing for a society to be fed on hate and fear.
Interesting comments also.
Thank you for your work.
You forget that the League of Nations established the Palestine Mandate to be the Jewish National Homeland. The British then gave over 75% of the land to the Arabs and called it Trans-Jordan. So there are already 2 states in Mandated Palestine. The League of Nations also established an Arab National Homeland in what is now Iraq.
When are zionists going to be more creative and come up with better talking points? Lol the old ones don’t work anymore
Correct.
you have a point.
People also forget that the land was bought it was paid for they didn't just take it the League of Nations didn't just give it to anyone the land was paid for the people who lived there were paid for the land and they moved fact. The land was paid for by the rothschilds they bought the land for their posterity.
You're describing was the establishment of Palestine was a distinct political entity for the first time in centuries. While it mentioning a homeland, it did not mention a State, & it included the, “while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced”. What happened to that bit? If you support the Mandate, do you support the right to return of the original inhabitants driven out during the Nakba?
Is there a map or other visual aid that shows the chain of custody for property titles? Where does the Israeli government get its authority to give land grants to settlers?
There's the portion of land that the Jews legally purchased after WW2. And the rest of the land was acquired in defensive wars, as when the Arabs attacked Israel with the intent to exterminate the Jews, Israel was legally allowed to drive back the aggressors, seizing the land to establish defensible borders, as is established in the international laws of war. That means the land legally became the possession of Israel when they seized it, regardless of who previously owned it, and Israel has the right to use their own land however they like, including building towns on it.
For when a particular portion of land became Israeli property, look up which murderous attack from Arabs on Israelis forced Israel to seize that land.
@@lennardchurch8483 So stolen then. A national form of civil asset forfeiture.
@@lennardchurch8483 This is a giant load of garbage. The UN never had any right to gift land away in the first place. Israel is a lie built on lies.
It doesn't, you're right. The Israeli government did do quite a lot of really stupid and selfish things that i feel should have been included here. Especially under Netanyahu's regime.
So what are the UN resolutions about? What claim to Arabs have against the state of Israel giving their land away to settlers? Are the pictures of Israeli bulldozers trashing old Arab ladies homes and gardens fake news? What about the UN conventions on refugees and their right of return? I thought the UN declaration of human rights did away with to the victor goes the spoils. If innocent people are displaced by military conflict and their land is confiscated by the victor’s eminent domain, where does that leave all of humanity? To what extent are insurance companies involved in settling claims?? What about Gaza? If you owned a home or business in Gaza and we’re lucky enough to flee somewhere safe, when this is over, do they have a right to go home? If not hey lose their land and we’re never a party to the fighting, at the very least shouldn’t they be paid for the land. All of Gaza is beachfront property. 100 years from now, it may be worth billions. It seems like nobody’s being honest and just like Americans screwed over our Native people and bullied them into submission, the non Jewish folks on the ground in Israel seem to be getting kicked around and anyone who questions the Israeli government on human rights abuses is an anti-Semite.
And with the same reasoning I assume he could say that land was never taken from the Native Americans by Europeans because the Native Americans never even had the concept of land ownership.
In this case , the natives are the jews!
Exactly as I mentioned they were lured to selling and forced into refuge camps in neighboring countries for the last 75 years spent born and died ... children and grandchildren...
exactly, colonizer propaganda used to justify their actions
The native Americans fought with each other to control hunting rights to areas of land. That the same thing, control of the land.
The Chippewa-Ojibwa in Michigan received a massive pristine land allotment IN VOLUNTARY EXCHANGE for giving up their claims to any lands out side of it. They promptly began to sell it off for the valuable timber. Most of them had squandered it, and their children were then left with no 'tribal home'. People felt sorry for them, so the state of Michigan gave them ANOTHER massive allocation of pristine wilderness, this time placed in TRUST so they could NOT sell it off and squander the money, be broke again in 10 years. This incompetence, corruption, and inter-fighting amongst themselves is ALSO the story for many Native tribes. Many nations/tribes had to have their lands placed into TRUSTS for this reason.
People were living everywhere in the area shown as green on the first map. However, the density of population varied. For example, the bulk of the Negev was populated by transhumant Bedouins. The fact that they were not "civilized" (in the sense that they did not live in settled urban areas) is irrelevant. It doesn't give urbanised people the right to pretend they were not there and making use of the land, albeit at low population density.
Most Bedouins are loyal Israeli citizens. They serve in the army, and know that conditions are much better under Israeli rule.
This is an important point you made. Throughout this interesting, and factually correct tho one sided, discussion justifications are given for the Jews occupying land held by Arabs or "Palestinians" based on there being "no state" , areas "not conducive to human life," and there being no "good society" or "just society" or a government that functions that way a government "should" function. This all represents the same western/modern bias that all colonists took when occupying new land where others had been living for years-- not the least of which is our own Native American people. There is a clash of cultures where one culture fails or understand and respect the other. Granted, the violent organizations that have formed over the years, bent on destroying the Jews in Israel, have left the rest of the world no choice but to condemn them and support the Jewish Israeli state, but it is important to understand how it all came to be from a macro historical perspective.
@@njgal0217 When a lie is repeated often enough, everyone believes it to be true. When there are 2 billion Muslim mouths in the world to repeat the lies, the truth stands little chance.
@@theview613 The Bedouins have never been asked whether they want to be in Israel. Furthermore, such choices are not necessarily based on material considerations. If they were, most Jews migrating to Israel since 1900 would rather have gone to the USA. For now the Bedouins have to make the best of their circumstances.
@@njgal0217 The "violent organisations that have formed over the years" are a response to Israel's overwhelming material military dominance courtesy of the USA. There is no equal playing field for the Palestinians, so their militants instead resort to terrorist tactics, as did the Jews in 1948, when around 800 Palestinian Arab civilians were massacred by what we must regard as Jewish terrorism. Most of the population of Gaza are the descendants of people intimidated into fleeing their homes by these massacres. It also begs the question as to whether the Israeli pilots who have killed several times as many civilians as Hamas recently did are engaged in terrorism. If not, why not?
I watched the video start to finish and I didn't see any justification for genocide.
Or apartheid or the fact that the Israeli government is giving illegal Jewish settlers in the West Bank AR-15s.
Or even the fact that Jewish people are never even charged if they kill a Palestinian.
I'm confused as I've researched everywhere and there is no genocide occurring
@@tylerwhite4743
Well, you are either ignorant of the obvious or some kind of religious nut ball waiting for Jesus to return. 😳
Israel's be carrying out a genocide since they stole the country in 1947.
@@tylerwhite4743 There is. Just not in Gaza. Check out Sudan to see how a genocide is actually done. Genuinely horrifying, Gaza is a nice place in comparison. Also the proof of 30k dead is iffy at best
@@tylerwhite4743 If hamas was able to, they would be committing a genocide right now.
God I hope nobody claims back land, houses, or countries on the basis of where their ancestors might have lived thousands of years ago, especially if you have a house in America.
The Jews' ancestral connection to the land is their reason for wanting it back, not the basis of their claim. They have a rightful, legal claim to the land because Israel was established on legally purchased land, that the Jews purchased from the previous landowners, and the rest of the land was acquired by Israel as they established defensible borders following the many unprovoked attacks from the surrounding Arabs. If you look up the last 75 years of history, every single military confrontation between Israel and the Arabs was instigated by the Arabs.
If they had a rightful, legal claim to the land, they wouldn't have needed British or UN involvement in carving the place up and declaring it a Jewish state, which didn't exist previously. And if you look up history, of course the Arabs are going to be the ones to instigate the confrontations. Why wouldn't they?
One thing that always seems to be missed is that "Hamas v Israeli government" and "The rights of the Palestinians to land v the rights of the jews to land" are two entirely different questions. Thinking that the Palestinians have a fair complaint that they are being squeezed into ever smaller areas does not equate to supporting Hamas. Thinking Israel has a right to take measures to defend itself from Hamas attacks does not mean you support Gaza being indescriminately turned to rubble. I can't offer a solution though. Both sides seemed to have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where total annihilation of the other side is seen as a reasoned outcome.
Very well put
Just ask yourself, now and ever before who instigated the violence and strived for peace and quiet. You will find that the Palestinians are always attacking and israel is always trying to have peace
@@yuvalefrati8550the obvious proof will be ignored. The Israelis developed numerous ways to defend their people, i.e., the iron dome. How does Hamas defend their people? They are the governing party after all, they should defend their own people.
@@jacobbay3114 they took all the food and gasoline from their own people. They built their biggest bunkers underneath the hospitals. And they brutelize the Palestinians daily more than israel does
Hamas didn't come along until 2006 and Israel helped to create them and refuses to allow anyone else in leadership. And has funded them over the years.
You cannot grant the status of a state to people that won't live in peace with their neighbors, more then that, whose declared objective of its leaders is the eradication of its neighbor, instead of focusing on building their own state in a peaceful way.
Ha ha ha. Do you think Israel was built in a peaceful way? They fought the Brits away who helped them to come to that place in the first place.
All states are founded and maintained though violence and aggression. I thought objectivists understood that.
@@spearview, die Juden begannen erst dann, gegen die Engländer zu kämpfen, als diese dazu übergingen, die jüdische Einwanderung massiv einzuschränken.
Very well put, so very true.
Modern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism
14:35 It was recorded? Where? Source pls.
Awesome history lesson! Thanks so much!
People don't think and behave, they'll always behave how they feel. That's just the way it currently is.
The history of this area is complicated. There isn't a common knowledge about Israel/Palestine that you can simply appeal to, including this video. So think all you want, unless you've researched the subject you don't know much.
I'm old enough to remember that prior to 1964 the Arabs called themselves Arabs, not Palestinian. The refugees were Arab refugees, not Palestinian refugees. So, there was no such thing as Arab Palestinians in 1948.
YOU ARE FULL OF DELUSION MISS MAAM.
run ngram[Arabs, Jews, Palestinians] it will give you a time plot.
Arab only invented Palestine to justify war with Israel.
They first started to call themselves Palestinians in 1969 when Arafat created PLO, which just shows the hypocrisy of those people who think it was a Palestinian land.
It never was and never will, because that nickname (Palestine) was a mockery nickname for the Jew’s ancient enemy - the Philistines, given by Hadrian in the Roman Empire days.
The main goal of the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza, or the so called “Palestinians” is to wipe out Israel off the land. It was never about creating their own state and independence.
Go educate yourself and read about Nakba 1948 and 1917 Bilfore declaration
An excellent well reasoned analysis of the historical context of this situation. I have long believed this was all the British Empire's fault. Rudy Rochman's proposal is the answer as nothing else will work or will be humane.
who drew these maps up?
People have been taking land from each other since the beginning of time. Whoever has the biggest gun can take or keep the land.
Then Israel is not practicing Jewish law
They are practicing jungle law.
While claiming to represent all the Jews of the world .
That's effed up
I see. If dealing with US and europe, might makes right. Got it. Dont worry, asia and asian are fast learner and we are stubborn.
@@nurlindafsihotang49literally how the world operates, not just the west.
It's The Right of Conquest. It has been around since the day of clubs and spears and will continue until the last two humans inhabit the Earth, or Mars if we get there.
To some degree, I agree. But the modern world order, by the UN, is that nations are generally recognized and protected (in a gang-like way), as the normative order. However, what many don't realize is that the UN allows for civil wars, and whoever comes out on top, gets a seat at the UN. So primarily, it's true within nations that the most guns mean legitimacy in many parts of the world, but less true today between nations.
I have been saying this for a long time, I am glad that now there is people who start to denounce the falsehood and deception of this infamous picture
So have I. And when I've told people that I've lived in Israel & Arabs have equal opportunities, I'm simply not believed.
@@alanaronald244 there was an exchange lands peace plan, where the Israeli Arabs lands were supposed to become Palestinian lands. The Israeli Arabs protested against it. Maybe you can use that as an argument. I might not understand some things though.
@alanaronald244 because it doesn't fit their Narrative. It's antisemitism plain and simple.
@@user-kg3tm7ue1s Sadly, you are correct. That is why the leadership (and many ordinary "Palestinians") will settle for nothing less than the abolition of the state of Israel.
@@ponygirl1716 how do people not see it?
Thanks for the education. Tough to ferret out the accurate knowledge with this topic.
This is very important and an existential question for people in the area.
THE WESTERN WORLD needs to take accountability for the situation.
Two state solution was applied to India and Pakistan too and failed. "From the River to the Sea" is somewhat familiar to us in India with an archaic Islamic WAQF Board staking claim to any land in perpetuity, in the name of Allah. This board has become the third largest landowner in the country - probably more land than Pakistan in acreage! So far, they've claimed temples which are much older than Islam, entire villages where people have been living since generations, and even large parts of our cities! The current Israel/Palestine conflict has brought into focus the sharp differences in our society as well.
well there may have been violence between India and Pakistan but the 2 state solution has pretty much been successful. why do you say it failed?
@@stevea6816 Pakistan and muslims living in India are never sstisfied with what they've got..they always want more.. Pakistan want whole of Kashmir and always send terrorists who infiltrate Indian territory..Pakistan is most of the time on the brink of war with India.. extremists muslim organizations in India want to convert the whole country into an Islamic state and get back to medieval times with Mughal empire rule...they often create unrest in areas where they are in majority.. while they already have specific laws in their favour such as Muslim Personal Law...
@@stevea6816 Muslims didn't fully migrate to Pakistan , even after getting separate country .
@@utsavpawar7015 Because while Pakistan was meant to be for Muslims, India was meant to be for everyone, including Muslims. 2 state solution has not been perfect (in fact its divided into 3 states now when you include Bangladesh which came from Pakistan) but it has generally been successful.
I wont call it a failure
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
George Orwell 1984
A lot of right wingers read Orwell and think he is defending the way they think. Orwell stated plainly he wrote everything after the Spanish Civil War in defense of democratic socialism. He also said he felt Lawrence of Arabia was the last intellectual on the right.
To those who are curious, look up the word "nakba", it's the same day Israel was created. Imagine that 😮...
First you need to find out WHO can be stolen from, and what is the definition of stealing.
(Modern usage) Palestinian (stolen name)was defined in nineteen seventy four by arafat...prior, it was a generic term for ppl of that region. Including Christians, including Jews. Now, go back, also yo tje pre Roman Empire, and before.
also in the UN map those 3 areas were part of Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon and taken during the 6 day war the "Palestinians" were the refugees that were left behind that their respective countries did not take back when the Jews of those states were sent over.
It would be helpful if you showed an accurate first map that shows where no people lived.
Lol
That included most of the land. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs poured into the land to work for the British from 1920-1947.
The Arab surrounding armies were so confident that they could easily conquer the Jews who had no armed forces since the 2nd Cent. AD, that they were shocked when the Jews fought back so well. One becomes an amazing warrior when you are going to be killed or pushed into the sea. The Jews prevailed as they had no other choice.
I still remember well a quote by my fellow Dutchman, Jew, Lawyer, Teacher, Zionist and finally Anti-Zionist Jacob Israël de Haan. As a correspondent in Palestine for the Rotterdamsche Courant in the 1930-ties he wrote: "The Jewish people may be a people without a homeland, but Palestine certainly is not a land without a people". He was murdered around 1936 by the Haganah when he left his synagogue in Jerusalem.
Excellent quote. Ty
👏👏👏
Very well said.
And from that group (i.e. Hagana) the Stern gang was created to terrorize the locals, even Albert Einstein wanted nothing to do with them he knew the truth.
Yup, the UN created a state for a stateless people by creating a stateless people.....problem solved...????? The West is collectively to blame for the current crisis in Palestine!
"Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land?"
Yes.
But I doubt anyone who admires Ayn rand would have a view on anything political that is based on fact.
Please oh wise one, tell me when the Palestinian state ever existed? It has never existed as a state ever. However Israel is mentioned in the Quran. Israel as a state is older than Islam. Therefore those lands were first stolen by Islam. Much like the cities of Mecca and Medina. Jews and Christians were thriving in those cities before Mohammed and Muslims drove them out killing thousands. Islam is a religion of conquest. This land is just being regained.
You're right about Ayn Rand. But Russia is stealing Ukraine's land right now. Also women and gays deserve rights.
Genuine question - Jewish people/groups that started buying land approx. in the early 1900s and beyond - the other land left was in foreign hands but who were they, and did they get compensated after 1948 when the UN agreed to the State of Israel?
Those were the white spots on the first map that the guy discredits.
No, they do not get compensated, when land gets turned over from Muslim to Jewish people in Israel, there is no compensation. The reverse simply does not happen. Usually they find old records in Turkey or the step-great-grand nephew of some guy who was listed on an 1890 document has having owned the land that was eventually conquered.
They pay him a token amount of money for land he didn't even know he owned and then they claim to have bought the land instead of it being "from conquest" and they loop that into Israel proper.
That is the main method of moving land from the West Bank to Israeli hands. You know, outside of the settlers just stealing it.
I am not pro Isreal or pro Palestine. But the logical fallacies and selective arguing in this video are stunning.
Just to give one example: "There is no collective ownership" but then "Israel said 'we are ok' with the smaller than expected land".
Wait, what?
1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state .
2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state .
3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state .
4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state .Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.
5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state .
6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state .
7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state .
😎 Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state .
9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state .
10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state .
11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state .
12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state .
13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state .
14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state .
15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state .
16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state .
17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state .
In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!
Origins @voiceofisrael
yes!
People don't magically disappear, and change their skin colour after they've been conquered. People didn't lose rights to their land after converting to Islam. The Christians and their holy sites were protected under Islamic rule. These only changed after the Zionists established their illegal occupation and pushed out the locals towards Gaza
before 1947, there was no Israel. Just Palestine . check the 1908 Bibles
@@colinbrown7305 Transjordan got 80% of what was once Israel. At the time of the UN discussion, Arab/Muslim nations opposed it based on Islamic rule (once conquered by Islam, it must always be Muslim land, see Andalusia/Spain), and said nothing about a "Palestinian" people except that there were none. From 1948-1967, Gaza was controlled by Egypt and Judea/Samaria by Jordan. "Palestinians" never complained of occupation.
Israel is 0.04% of the ME. They have no land to trade and Islam has no peace to offer.
The nation state is quite a modern concept drawn up by colonial powers, especially in this region. Israel is a nation because the mechanisms exist to declare it so. In the past it was all about your ability to defend and rule an area under your control, thats what defined your borders..
Another deception involves map one and map three. In the first map it portrays Jewish populated areas in white, even though Jews didnt have soveriegnty. Yet in map three the Arab settled areas within Israel are not portrayed in green, even though Israel had hundreds of thousands of Arabs, and hundreds of Arab towns. Very dishonest.
actually millions of arabs, there are nearly 2 million arabs in isreal.
@@janehrahan5116 When I said "hundreds of thousands" I was referring to the number of Arabs left in Israel proper in 1948 to 1967, corresponding to map 3.
You weren’t listening. He said this wasn’t a tribal or racial discourse. That there were all tribes in all areas
@doctordan1668 I think I was. Both he and I are talking about inconsistency in what was being portrayed between the maps that resulted in completely false implications.
Thank you!!
I didn't think I would be convinced but I was, great argument.
he Permanent Court of International Justice (‘PCIJ’) defined conquest as ‘a cause of loss of sovereignty when there is war between two States and by reason of the defeat of one of them sovereignty over territory passes from the loser to the victorious State’ (Eastern Greenland Case at 47). Conquest, strictly so-called, is therefore a derivative title of acquisition of territorial sovereignty (Territory, Acquisition) taking...
Thank you so much for shedding light onto this subject. We are surrounded by ignorance, and most of it is willful ignorance.
Yes. This was great. I really like Traveling Israel with Oren channel too. He has some great history. Several videos. Between channels like these, and my Smithsonian Book, 'History of the World Map by Map' there is so much history to share. So important.
If you're interested, I watched an interview today as well. It is just about October 7th....
On 'Times of India' channel. Titled, ‘Kill men, capture women’: Interrogation Video of 6 Hamas terrorists who invaded Israel on Oct 7
Modern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism
@@JessJoanneModern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism
Yes, too true!
@@JessJoanne I also follow Oren, and he also does an excellent job presenting real history as opposed to the propaganda that too many people insist on believing.
Alot of the young people on the recent march in London need to see videos like this. I've seen quite a few interviews with these people who have no idea of the truth about the reality of the Israeli/Palestinians situation.
One thing we know 100% is that Israel didn't exist before 1948, and Palestinian people were removed from their homes to make way for the jews
The protests are about the murders, then became the demand for Israel to leave Palestine alone!
Yes they do to realise that isrealmis a lying fkin terrorists state determined to wipe out those who own the land you stole
They would call this video "zionist propaganda"
Because they are not aware of the Holy Bible. Israel land will not be lsrael if it is not God who named it after Jacob that the Almighty has named him. Israel is Jacob son of Isaac and brother of lsau whose land is Edom and his people are the Edomites. And lsrael's people are the Jews or lsraelites. Jews after Judah's name son of Jacob that has a part of land in Israel like his siblings name after them.👍🙏
This guy thought he was on the left. He wasn't
Even as an American, when we say "We bought the land" from the natives its with a tone of disbelief. "We bought the land by giving them beads for it, can you believe it?" It carries a sense we knew we were swindling people. So while land was properly purchased, you wonder about the imbalance.
Semi-Feudalism in the Byzantine Empire and even pre-Feudal Japan both had instances where smaller landholders would come upon hard times and 'sell' their land to a larger owner to gain protection and tax benefits. Some of these Emperors even enacted reforms to allow this process to be reversed as it was acknowledged that, while the purchases were legal in all sense of the law there needed to be a recognized externality. If a farmer hits hard times and is forced to sell or gift his land to someone higher up just to survive, we recognize the issue was not fair.
Just look at major corporations buying up single family homes in many countries. Legal purchases, but we know we're going to have to turn that issue around or society will collapse. So its is true the purchases were legal, but it isn't hard to realize you can do safe and legal practices and still get into trouble.
I always find this reasoning kinda funny. Especially seeing as the whole "beads" thing is a rather recent invention (well recent as in late 19th century) to play on racist American Indian stereotypes. Seeing as no mention of beads was made in the original documents noting the sale, rather only "24 guilders worth of good" to the Dutch (roughly equivalent to 1000 USD in modern times). A not all to different price the Dutch got for Staten Island a few decades later. Which has been far better documented and was "10 boxes of shirts, 10 ells of red cloth, 30 pounds of black powder, 30 pairs of socks, 2 pieces of duffel, some awls, 10 muskets, 30 kettles, 25 adzes, 10 bars of lead, 50 axes and some knives."
Still a good deal for the mainland Europe Dutch, but that's the thing for the Dutch it was not a lot. For the American Indians on the other hand it was a lot, as they still were a largely early farming and late stage hunter gatherer society who's main weaponry was still bow and arrow. That deal was significantly more valuable to the American Indians as it was akin to getting large amount of high quality future technology.
The harsh reality is that people buy and sell stuff for their own self intrest with their own value judgement.
@@relo999 the point being that private business transactions, however legal, can complicate international relations sometimes. Rime bought silk from Asia and sent a ton of gold, east, that was one of many things that weakened the empire. Slaves were bought and sold as property, and didn't that create externalities?
What you describe does not accurately describe the way land was purchased by Jews. Mostly, fair amounts of money were exchanged and titles was given. Calling this unfair, is, unfair.
American tend to view every event in the world through their own lens. Just because your ancestors swindled the natives, doesn't mean Israeli ancestors cheated the locals (and remember, some land was owned by Jews for centuries. Jews are NATIVES).
While it is possible that some deals were not fair to the seller, from what I know, the general situation was that lands were owned by a regional landholder or even someone who lived in Turkey (because this was the Ottoman Empire). When Jews bought the land from some rich Arab or Turk, who was not a naive native, they often payed exorbitant prices because these landowners quickly realized they *could* ask for high prices, because of the high Jewish demand at the time. The impoverished Arabs who lived on that land had probably seen the purchase as unfair, but they didn't own the land in the first place. and of course, vast parts were uninhabited and not arable, so any price was basically a great profit for the Arab/Turk who sold it.
The bigger context would include a discussion of how muslims, through self initiated war, conquered the Middle East, Northern Africa and most of the Iberian peninsula. The conquered people were coerced and forced to convert to Islam or be oppressed under sharia law. Once a land was conquered it was declared to belong to islam forever, even after the inhabitants succeeded in kicking the muslims out and resuming control of their own land, as happened with the Iberian peninsula.
Well said. It's the same drama, here, in Kashmir. Muslims invaded someone else's land. Then came the British and after the British left, the earlier inhabitants of the land got their land back and the Muslims in Kashmir started playing victims as if the land belonged to them in the first place. They even carried out a genocide of the Hindus but instead claim the Muslims are being eliminated every time a terrorist is killed!
Look what's happening to Europe.
But who's the NGOs, organisations, individuals, lawyer's and groups who are pushing mass immigration into western Europe?
Exactly, diversity for everyone but certain people.
I assumed all land on this earth have been taken, retaken and then taken by somebody entirely Else at some point, lol. Probably even further back than what our knowledge of history is. So where do we draw the line and say that these or those are the rightful owners of that land?
And I dont know enough about the Kashmir conflict, so I just ask; is it possible that the land might even "rightfully belong" to neither Hindus or muslims? Maybe some other ethnic group that was there before both of them had control of that particular land? Who knows...
Stfu Ellie, Muslim this and Muslim that. Every society religion in history has done similar and worst. What's the main point now is the genocide taking place in Gaza. Get off your high horse and see how you'd react after decades of ethnic cleansing by a side with disproportionate military might given be the west.
Though I get the point you’re trying to make even with the first frame of the map, I’m confused at the delineation that you’re suggesting that we take in which we would only show the population densities of Palestinians and Israeli’s. To say a place is only owned by those that have ownership on the land, you would then need for the governance of the land to be equal or benign. The same would suggest that I could then move to an uninhabited part of land and lay claim to it today in northern Canada. We know this simply isn’t true because there is ownership in sorts over the land. I would need to purchase this land.
why not say that 2 million Arab-Muslims live in Israel; 0 Jews live in Arab countries
So from this man’s logic any country with an unused or unlivable land can be collected by anyone and that country doesn’t own the land collectively???
No, Countries own their land. The land that is now Israel and Jordan were all a possession of the British Empire when Israel was established, and the Jews established Israel with the permission of the British Empire. No state of "Palestine" ever existed, so your argument is completely fallacious.
@@lennardchurch8483 how’s a land that’s not in Europe the British to give?? Just eject the natives and give others??… anyway you spin it it reveals the evil 👿
@@titrecords2294 You're being willfully ignorant. Look up the history of the land. 3,000 years ago it was the Kingdom of Israel, then it passed through the possession of various empires (such as the Roman, Ottoman, and British Empires), with each transfer of possession of the land being legal relative to the international laws and standards of their day, so the land was objectively owned by the British Empire when they gave the Jews permission to return, and the Jews legally purchased the land they established the modern state of Israel on from the Arab landowners, which didn't wrong anyone, and didn't evict anyone who wasn't illegally squatting on the land Israel purchased from its previous owners.
The Arabs then attacked Israel without any legitimate provocation, and were driven back as Israel established defensible border by driving back the aggressors, which is a legal acquisition of land by Israel.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If the Arabs had just not attacked Israel, about half of what is now Israel would have been a state of "Palestine". The problem is the Arabs don't actually want another Arab state there, they just don't want Israel to exist.
@@lennardchurch8483 The Palestinian population dissagrees but ok
@@ldgarius The Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" are descended mostly from Egyptian and Jordanian raiders and colonizers who went into the land just within the last couple hundred years, under the rule of the Ottoman and British Empires, so they objectively never had a state of "Palestine", and any claim otherwise is dishonest.
Outstanding and very informative video
Thank you
It's never about who lives there, it's always about who it's ruled by.
Yeah the arabs wanted to rule over it. But at we all know how democracy and freedom there is in arabic countries…
Every single human rather live in israel and not “palestine” ruled by islamic jihad on a different universe
Reallyy ?? So who lives there isnt important ? That's how u explain the nakba and 1948 right ?
@@aminebrahmi8034 Yes and no. Would you say Alaska is not part of USA? Or would you say it is still Russian? After all, people with Russian heritage still live there.
Land is ruled by individuals in a very simple sense, and we tend to call those monarchies. The interviewee's argument is misleading, ironic considering he's complaining about an image being misleading.
Owners choose.
@@aminebrahmi8034 You obviously didn't understand the comment...
Always curious to see how seemingly well informed intelligent people will go through any amount of mental gymnastics to avoid facing reality.
Even more curious to see a troll bot account with 1 comment in 8yrs chime in with a stupid statement like yours how many of your bots are in this comment thread you can tell us
My thoughts exactly - it would have been nice for them to have stated clearly that this is not a logical solution but in order to maintain a Jewish majority it was necessary to strip existing non-Jewish landowners of their property rights.
@@richarddixon4303they don't even talk about the dir Yasin massacre
@@nourahmed-sh2ox they don’t talk about the 1929 Hebron massacre
And not at all curious that the mentally less agile simply resort to insults: for lack of a more erudite response, one imagines.
What did it look like pre- Balfour?
80 percent+ Muslim
20 percent mix of Jewish and Christians-ish (and a few other religions).
Some sources say it is closer to 90% but I use 80% because I have no reason to lie.
Throughout the years of Palestinians have attacked Israel Time After Time they were offered a deal in 1948 and they rejected that deal and have been at War ever since they've proven the fact that Israel needs that space to defend itself
The palestinian rejectionism goes back to 1937 when their leadership rejected the Peel plan which gave the palestinians 3/4 of the Palestine mandate territory.
It was their land. They didn't have to accept anything. I know the white man thinks he's God Almighty, but the U.S. would NOT have tolerated America being carved up by the U.N. for another people. Why wasn't land taken off Germany?
5 times offered a pace deal and 5 times they said No
Is it true that the majority of Arabs who were living inside the area that became the Israeli State in 1948, were expelled by Israel and fled to Gaza?
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Gospel [Last Testament]:
I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Quran [Last Testament]:
Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].
You say Israel was humble to accept less land as was promised to them, but the Arab world was not ok with even that. I feel there is something that is left out. True the Brits said here you can have it. But it wasn't their land in the first place. And shouldn't the Balfour declaration be mentioned here as well?
@martin8934 it was the Brit’s land to do what they wanted as a result of the Ottoman Empire losing WWI. The loss of land is typical from the result of a war, why would this be any different?
Furthermore, all of the wars/conflicts since the formation of Israel has been initiated by Palestinian militants attacking Israel followed by Israel successfully defending themselves and ultimately defeating the Palestinians. What has changed is the players, the Palestinians use to get Egypt, Syria, and Jordan to assist in the attacks….today not so much. They know it’s a losing battle and have sought for peace instead. The best the Palestinians have is to get financial backing from Iran to fight a proxy war.
The Palestinians have had their chances for peace and they blew every single one of them. This latest attack in October was the last straw and Israel is no longer f’ing around. Israel has been more than considerate by telling the citizens in Gaza to leave and gave them a week to get out. Any pain and suffering at this point is at the hands of Hamas, they are the ones that created the current problem.
The simple fact is Israel is not going anywhere, plain and simple. If the Palestinians want to live in peace and harmony they need to accept that fact and move on. So far they haven’t and want to continue to fight, and so here we are.
@@Ariaga_II I don't think it is very fair to tell somebody to leave behind all they have and have it destroyed. Also where to go? Border to south is closed, border to north is closed. Were they expected to build floats or into the desert?
And the kind of treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis over the years was no basis for finding a peaceful solution.
I have no dog in this race. I am just sick of the double standards.
To me it is like two kids in kindergarten fighting with each other.
@@martin8934 it’s not fair. It’s also not fair that people went to a music festival and were terrorized, shot at, raped, and kidnapped. That wasn’t fair either. I don’t have a dog in this fight either, but this fight has gone on long enough in my lifetime and in each skirmish the Palestinians fired first. There are innocent people involved, but there were also many dancing in the streets when Hamas acted like terrorists. It is also telling that Egypt won’t let these people into their country. These people have harbored terrorists for years at this point.
As a group if the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would demand it, it certainly wouldn’t be almost half the population supporting Hamas. Even the ones that don’t support Hamas live under the delusion that Israel will be wiped out and they will get all the land back. The Palestinians for the most part do not want a two state solution, they view all of the land as their’s.
@@Ariaga_IIthat's why I say, it's like kindergarten
I am just so sick of people trying to play other people. Sick of all the lies. Sick of the hybris.
At times it looked like there could be peace. God alone knows if it would have come to it without the most charismatic PLO leader suddenly being made unalive
I long for a time when people again will value truth and virtues more than personal gains and power over others.
I feel like I finally learned something about this conflict, for once. Right on!👍 Thanks, Elan.
Theoretically as an Israeli, by definition I am Palestinian and Israel could have been called the Nation of Palestine, but people tend to misunderstand the Arab notion of Palestine and the region called Palestine.
Edit: why are people so mad 🤣 I think yall missed the part where I said I am Israeli, was born in Rishon Letzion.
Palestine is the foreign greek name for the region. Israel is the true name of the region. Like germany and deutschland. but additionally, israel is a name given to the region by God :)
It was Palestine and it'll still Palestine
@@zayed2023 The P sound is not in arabic language, even today. There is "Palestine" geographic area (greater Judea that Roman emperor had renamed, with a reference to Philistinians, who were not arabic people.) But there are no palestinian people. Yaser Arafat was born in Egypt but his last name points to Saudi Arabia.
@@zayed2023I am told even the Koran does not refer to Palestine but only to Children Of Israel. That the Romans who had dispossessed the Jews called it Palestine to humiliate the Jews.
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Gospel [Last Testament]:
I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Quran [Last Testament]:
Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].
Very important information...Thank you
The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra was founded as the Palestine Symphony Orchestra by violinist Bronisław Huberman in 1936, at a time of the dismissal of many Jewish musicians from European orchestras. Its inaugural concert took place in Tel Aviv on December 26, 1936, conducted by Arturo Toscanini.
Well, that illustrates what happened to Palestine as well as anything.
What is your point here exactly??? And whar does it prove.
@@williewonka6694 Palestine is a made up name by Roman invaders and colonizers in order to rename Judea the land of Israel as punishment for the Jews who were constantly rebelling against the occupation. Stop with the nonsense. There never was a country called Palestine in human history.
Mr. Journo should make a map showing the desert that Israel converted into productive farmland. I think the world needs to know that Israel has taken land of no value and made it into paradise. Now Palestinians want this land.
Israel created a prosperous, productive, and inclusive society from nothing. 1/5 of Nobel Prize winners are Jewish, but only 1 is Palestinian, which was Arafat who broke the peace shortly after receiving the award. Palestinians would do themselves an incalculable favor by peacefully joining Israel in a single state solution.
@@aliensoup2420Nobel Peace Prize is a joke. Please, let's not talk of the Peace Prize in the same breath as the other Nobel Prizes. Doing so brings down the overall reputation of the Nobel prizes.
Totally agree
But don't you know that palestine were living in these desert before Israel kick them and turn it to paradise they didn't ask Israel a lot they just want thir land no one cares whether it were desert or forst or paradise
@zayed2023 not their land anymore. The Arabs started 3 wars and lost them all, and if you start wars and then lose them, the borders may change. Take a look at the maps of Europe from before and after the two world wars.
@Leo_Pard_A4 its just that after ww2 the world decided that nobody can keep land they invade.
I used to think Israel had a lot to be blamed for. Over the past few weeks I have ignored mainstream media and leftist commentators and did my own research- that is the very reason I am watching videos like this one. I no longer see Israel as the perpetrator.
Do you agree with the settlers?
Expand ?
That is good to hear in light of all the antisemitic mobs rioting all over the world.
I agree with you, I was also negative about Israel. But now it seems the only land in the middle east without war. Genesis 15 in my bible tells that God promised from the Nile to the Eufraat for Israel.
@@dasstraat Christianity and the Bible are both fake.
How many generations of people lived in that land since the dissolution of ancient Judea/Kingdom of Israel?
8:39 I do disagree with the meme as it originates with the small white bits, generally. The real question is assignment at partition, followed by the subsequent events and their consequences.
Maybe you will mention illegal settlement activities in westbank in your next episode
Jews building homes in Judea, their ancestral homeland, is not illegal. Jews are from Judea. Arabs are from Arabia. Jews are the indigenous people of Israel,
How is it illegal when Israel was given west Bank by Jordan in exchange for peace?
And the reason is that there are tombs of Proffit's there.
For the third panel, I will use Canada as the example. Even though the land/area of Canada is wide, but the most populated areas are only a few
Now imagine America taking some of Canadas uninhabited land, and claiming it's theirs simply because no one lives there now, or Canada isn't using it properly. That's Israel taking land.
Don't believe this video is very well documented that since 1948 Israel destroyed over 500 Palestinian villages
Your comments are hidden for some reason.
So sickk seeing "educated" people spreading misinformation in favor of a country that is actually committing genocide or to justify injustice ISRAEL IS NOT BETTER THAN NAZI GERMANY , PEOPLE READ INVESTIGATE ON YOUR OWN AND USE YOUR BRAIN ALL THIS IS VERY WELL DOCUMENTED..
@@tundelarsson7817 I don't hide anything?
When sectioning land it creates division. In any country of multiple groups of people all the people live in all of the country! A country cannot be productive if there is division. The important thing to understand is there can only be one government to run the country. The term "all for one,one for all "comes to mind. All the people must agree to the common rule of one government to work.
Thank you so much for this explanation!
Thank you, gentlemen, for the crystal-clear discussion/explanation of the cause why until now the Palestinians are stateless. I'm 78 years old and the facts given echoed the same facts I learned in my World History class in my last year in secondary school--the same facts I learned as a History major in my bachelor's in the university. If young people in universities, including the prestigious Harvard U are massing the streets all over the world chanting "We standby with the Palestinian cause--Free Palestine rhetoric", where lies the disinformation, aside from fake news/media now flooding the internet? Education gone awry, horrendously wrong! When students basically learn from leftist, woke professors for their stock knowledge, because they lack the diligence to educate themselves by reading to know, find the truth--this happens!
Why the need to politicize your comment by bringing up "leftist woke professors?"
I go so far as saying a Palestinian people doesn't exist at all. The Gaza and Westbank people are, if not Jewish, Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian, Libanese. The "Palestinian people" is an invention of Jassir Arafat.
Do some research on the Nakba. Then ask yourself why these two gentlemen didn't use the word, didn't mention it or refute any of the documented atrocities, and lied about the war in 48.
Why do you think these two gentlemen decided to ignore one of the key issues when discussing Palestinian and Israeli relations? Do you really think that this video left you informed about the situation, when all they really did was echo the propaganda from one side?
@@andrewlisciandrello6920bravo sir 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
@@andrewlisciandrello6920 Jews were expelled from the west bank (ruled by Jordan) and the Gaza strip ( ruled by Egypt ) in greater numbers than Palestinian Nakba. I only respond to your post for clarity sake.
Unless I missed something significant, the takeaway is that the Jewish settlers gained the land through purchase, force and declaration by foreign powers (the UN); the land was acquired and held out of a need for security; and even though the prior occupants of the land are not happy about it, they have been unable to politically, economically, or militarily resolve their situation. Questions: If it is not about ethnicity or race, then why is Israel a "Jewish State"? What are the citizenship rights of a non-Jewish person whose great grandfather lived in this area prior 1948? What kind of economic system was in place prior to the Jewish migration? Did many Palestinian families own their own land or did most people live on land owned by a wealthy landlord? If they did not own the land they lived and farmed on, what happened to those residents when the land was sold out from under them? These are leading questions, but I honestly don't know the answer to them. I just noticed that this type of question was not being addressed in this discussion.
Very true.
You won't find real discourse about those questions on a platform like RUclips. That's because those are the only real sensible questions anyone with an actual moral compass should be asking.
There is a bottom line to be had here in my honest opinion.. Israel as a Jewish nation state was being paid for since long before any of our grandparents were born. Long before border declarations. I could mention how it was long written about by well known Zionists.. but then I could literally just refer to one of the oldest books we know to exist and you'll still see it being foretold. Well okay.. a proclaimed 'lineage' wanted to spend a lot of money over time for this state in order to populate it *with foreign Jews... Was it all worth it? Why?
Those questions are not addressed in the discussion because, if they were, it would undermine the notion that Israel did not steal the land.
Good questions. Citizens in israel proper (not west bank or gaza as it is not governed by israel) have equal rights regardless of religion. 2 million muslims live in israel and they all have voting rights, opportunities for good jobs (arabs are in israeli government and even supreme courts etc), same schools and same spaces for everyone. There are tensions between religions sometimes and with certain people as there are in any country, however they have equal rights. As for economy prior to 1948, there wasnt much. The land was always a colony (britain, ottoman, arabic empire etc) ever since the romans took the land from the jews in 74AD. Not much going on there and was really built up by israelis after ‘48. As for the landlords and tenants of the lands i cannot give you an informed accurate answer i am unsure to be honest.
1. It is called a Jewish state, because of origin: Jews had been murdered in the Diaspora - also well before WWII. ALL citizens of Israel have the same rights and everyone can vote. Money and street signs are in Arabic too. Arabs have mosks, they own shops and political parties.
2. Large parts of the British mandate area where inhabitable, as mentioned in the video. No one lived there. Still Jewish settlers/kibbutzniks succesfully transformed small areas into orchards and such. These pieces of land were legally purchased.
Maps are incomplete. They don’t go back far enough.
Israel owned it all first, and there never was a Palistinian state, who are arabs really
@@user-dq9oi3di9e who are Israelis really?
Thank you for helping people to wake up. I find it very interesting that any video you see online of members of Islam who convert to Christianity all state that Israel was not the problem, and Islam was. If this was an issue over land, I don’t think their religion would make any difference in regards to their views on Israel. This has nothing to do with land, and has everything to do with religious ideology. You can’t reach a peaceful solution with a neighbour if their sole purpose is your destruction!
is the native americans muslims
How is it a problem with Islam? I don’t know what you know about Islam but Islam doesn’t cause problems. Another thing is that there is that there is Christian and Jewish Palestinians and a lot of jewish are not accepting what Israel is doing so don’t think Israel represents the Jewish.
Total nonsense ! Like the people who constantly said the Northern Ireland conflict was about religion. It was about the racist Planagenet kings and Oliver Cromwell invading Ireland and handing over choice lands and estates to mostly Scottish and English noblemen who helped the English crown defeat France and Spain. The fact that England was a Protestant nation and Ireland a Catholic nation is incidental.
@@user-scienceislovenope, I've never met a native American Muslim and I live around a significant population of Native Americans with a lot being close friends. Never heard of any of their extended families or other friends having anything to do with islam
@@den264
Have you read the 1988 HAMAS charter?
What does Islam say regarding Jews?
Sahih Al-Buhkari 2629 - Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
The term "Palestinian/Palestine" during the Mandate era was referring to all inhabitants of the land, more so it was referring to Jews more then to Arabs. If there was an internet back in1938 and you could Google the flag of Palestine back then you would get either the Mandate flag based on the union jack or a Zionist flag which differed from the modern Israel flag by having only two stripes and the star in gold. There were entities like "Palestine railways","Palestine electric company",Palestine Potash company","Anglo-Palestine Bank" or "Palestine Post". Those have no connection to Arabs and with exception of the railways that were owned by the British government were Jewish owned corporations with continuous relation to the current major companies- Israel Railways,Israel electric company,Dead sea works,Leumi Bank and Jerusalem Post.
Well said, well written. Teach these numskulls here who have not learnt any history, or else who want to re-write it in the style of Hitler, Stalin, Communist China, and other despots
It came from the Romans, who referred those that stayed. Keep in mind the entire world embraced and supported Jews. It was the programs and Holocaust that sent them back to the land that was already occupied by Palestinian Arabs and Jews living in harmony. The Zionists want to cleanse the land of Palestinian Arabs, of Canaan descent. They are murdering their own family.
The Jerusalem Post was called The Palestine Post.
@@mjazzguitarYour reading comprehension is poor. He is the listing former names of the companies then the current names.
@@maxheadroom224 I know.
I was adding one more example.
Why do they care what you know or think?? It’s only telling me who I should fear. Priorities are key to understanding who is important or prioritized.
Only the innocent will perish. People in charge stirring the pot it’s sad.
This is such a complex subject & separating fact from fiction is where we need to start, & you did well addressing that. While I am largely not a fan of the govt of Israel & less so of the PLO & Hamas (if you can even call either governing bodies) every time Israel has given land, governing authority or what have you it has resulted in war or violence.
I also feel deeply for the Palestinian people that are trapped, used & exploited by Hamas & the PLO. People that would be able to live amongst Israelis or with them as neighbors if the fires of fear & anger as well as religious fervancy were not continually stoked by those who wish to control them.
My dad told me in the 1970s they’ve been throwing rocks at each other for thousands of years, if you think they will stop in your lifetime you are a fool.
Well I guess I'm a fool for not taking History lessons from some rando's dad
Yes you are @@Difop
@@Difopuneducated tr4sh will be uneducated tr4sh.
Add religion on top and you get Palestine.
@@fotis3v480 Such an educated remark
Mohammed was born in the 7th century, so maybe not thousands of years.
I hope this civilized and intellectual podcast would recieve the exposure it rightly deserves
I hope not fake news it is not in accordance with International law
Radicals won’t listen
There is literally historical film footage of troops driving nearly 1 million Arabs off their land at the point of a gun to establish an Israeli state. If you are not familiar with the history please check out the history of the 'Nakba', the term used to describe the ethnic cleansing of the region which began in 1948.
@@ashleyfield63 cherry picking events isnt helpful when you need to see all events in context.
@@ashleyfield63 Exactly. The Zionist will turn a blind eye to their own terrorism. It was Zionist own firebrand terrorism in 1946-1948 that we witnessed on October 7th 2023
Very enlightening. Thank you
12:50 Though I disagree with damaging the Palestinian claim on the basis that their state would have been similar to that of the other theocracies around them, and therefore is less valid.
The vast majority of Palestinians were simple squatters 1n the late 40's. 90% of the people had no deeds or document showing they owned the land. The family simply picked an area they liked and built a cinderblock one room house and raised various livestock and planted vegetables where they could. They earned or traded no money and also, many were small size nomadic herdsman who moved from place to place. Also if you check the last names you'll find most of them are from Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon, + Egypt, and other places.
Does that mean that they can be removed from the land, and the land allocated to other people?
what's the difference between a squatter and a settler?
Al aqsa is 1400 years old
I guess those squatters had been there at least that long.
And built something
@@Wyndham21044Well what I came to understand after reading a 36 page study last night is that Palestinians never followed modern agricultural methods, even long before 1948, which were already in full swing in the area in the 1920s and basically had no idea of principles such as fertilization apart from some burnt branches/charcoal (potassium), let alone crop rotation /green manure or irrigation and have all this time stuck with old-fashioned (so-called Falluheen methods) while the Israelis with 6% of the land already grew half of all citrus, twice as much grain and barley on the same piece of land and always came up with innovative ideas where Israel is still in the top fifteen in terms of tech/production (while mostly the Islamic fundamentalist world seems to have skipped 1300 years in quite some places in the world while they own the most oil, but only the rich families seem to benefit from it while the population itself does not really seem to be able to build a modern society...) Then it is of course easy to blame Israel on certain area’s they couldn’t care about before, especially with the arrival of practically Europeans, has gradually managed to make many areas highly productive and fertile in a country with a large part of desert with little drinking water and zero oil, for example. And then land suddenly became very important for the Palestinians. Another textbook example is Zimbabwe with the arrival and departure of white farmers
@@Wyndham21044Al-Aqaba isn’t a town, but good try