Quick Tip - Rifle Accuracy Issues
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- "How many Brownells Gun Techs™ does it take to provide tips for diagnosing and fixing your hunting rifle's accuracy problems? Only two when they're Steve Ostrem and Caleb Savant! We're releasing this episode at the height of Deer Season, but most of these tips apply any bolt action rifle.
So you hit the range to check your rifle's zero, and those groups are too large. The problem might be YOU. Are you holding the rifle correctly? If you're shooting off a rest, make sure the stock, not the barrel, sits on the rest. Check your AMMO. Are you using the right load for this rifle? If you're a handloader, you might have multiple loads for a given caliber on the shelf. Did you grab the correct load? If the gun is new and you're using factory ammunition, try different factory loads. Your rifle may ""like"" one load much better than others.
What if the shots are landing WAY off, a ""bushel basket"" size group at 100 yards? Check your OPTIC: Has the scope been knocked out of alignment? Are the rings and / or base loose? Check for RUST between the scope base and the receiver. Make sure the scope itself is tracking correctly. Is it broken? Change the windage and elevation settings and see if the shots move accordingly on the target.
Make sure the ACTION screws aren't loose. If your rifle has a wood stock and free-floating barrel, has the STOCK warped and put pressure on the barrel? Do the Dollar Bill Test. On most hunting rifles, you should be able to slide a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock. If you can't, you have a warped stock! Even the DBT isn't perfect. George Washington might fit, but when you rest the forearm on a support OR attach a bipod to it, the gap can close and the stock contacts the barrel. CAUTION: Not all rifles have free-floated barrels.
Caleb has some tips for fixing stock problems. Bedding the action with Brownells ACRAGLAS® will seal the stock from moisture and prevent it from flexing. You ARE bedding your stocks with ACRAGLAS®, aren't you?
Check the bore for COPPER FOULING. This is a common problem on rifles chambered for high-velocity magnum cartridges. Solution: a thorough bore cleaning, not just a few quick passes with a patch. Could the barrel be ""shot out?"" Caleb points out that very few hunters will ever wear out a barrel. Even that old .30-30 or .30-06 you inherited from Grandad is probably nowhere near shot out.
A damaged BARREL CROWN can seriously mess up accuracy. A ding on the edge of the exit hole can knock the bullet cockeyed as it leaves the bore. A gunsmith can re-crown the barrel for you, or you can do it yourself if you're handy.
"
Should do a semi auto version of this!
My 30-06 hates 150 grn bullets, 5-6 inch groups at 100 yards, I get 1/2-3/4 inch groups with 180 grn bullets. Kinda sucks but a fact.
My 30-06 shoots 180gn bullets in 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups too. Shoots 150gn bullets terribly. 165gn bullets shoot ok but 180gn is by far the best. Never shot 220 gn bullets so I don't know how they shoot out of my rifle.
Yeah, it's time for some Acraglass for the Rem 700 custom deluxe 7mm Rem Mag. 👍
Also determines letting the barrel cool down between shots. I’ve seen guys shoot and adjust and shoot and adjust and just chase their tails. And I’ve been taught to only turn one turret at a time. Shoot see where you hit move up and down don’t worry about left and right. Let the barrel cool and shoot to make sure it adjusted to proper height. Then adjust left and right, left and right misses are you,up and down misses are the gun/ammo.
This applies to semi auto also. I had a scar 17 that I couldn’t get to group any better than 4 inches at 100 yards. After checking everything multiple time I decided to mark where the scope mount was resting on the gun. In between shots I examined where the mark was compared to where the mount was and there was just a hair of movement. I replaced the mount with a a non QD mount and the issue was resolved. Rifle was grouping between 1-1.5 inches after that. Check that mount!
All good points guys! The main thing is get all these issues fixed before hunting season not during🤔😳
Bedding, scope mounting, cheek weld. Make sure that's all good. You won't have issues. Accraglass is the best. You can free float, but bedding is the best.
I've heard bench rest shooters say "yeah this barrel is done for...only shooting 1/2 inch groups." For hunting you will probably never go through a barrel, be careful to not damage your crown... That can ruin accuracy.
ALSO THE LENGTH OF THE FRONT GUARD SCREW, IF IT IS BOTTOMING OUT IN THE RECEIVER IT WILL ACT AS IF IT IS LOOSE. THANKS
I got an enfield no4 mk1 I redid, they are made with bottom wood that puts pressure on the barrel at the end.
Excellent information, Steve and Caleb. Never had the particular issue which you describe, but ya never know. Could you do a segment on add-on barrel tuners which claim to adjust the harmonics of the barrel?
In California, I have seen a lot of accuracy issues due to ammo with the shift to non lead hunting ammo.
It's always funny to hear people with a couple hundred rounds through their gun claim that the barrel is shot out. They tend to be the same people who think that a brass brush is going to "destroy the rifling." Man, barrels are *not* that fragile.
Not so much the rifling but the coating like chrome lining
@@Joeshmoshootsit’s oil it brother. Relax and clean away.
Good too see they doing some good old bolt action episodes. Not all of us can have ARs 😅
My brother bought a new gun a few years back. The previous owner had put a scope on it. My brother day before season shot it to verify zero after 2 boxes of 30-06. Called me i ended up finding out the scope was turned 90 so elevation was windage and vise versa. Mounted scope correctly hit the bull in 5 rounds 🤦♂️
Also look for a bad crown. I have seen some very bad factory crowns lately.
I know that muzzle brakes are not a common element for hunting rifles, but I think it is worth mentioning that an over-torqued muzzle device can damage the crown-end of a barrel and dramatically effect accuracy.
Indeed, we covered the topic. ruclips.net/video/m8BAOMcSJGQ/видео.html
... a little copper fouling to smooth barrel imperfections and fill scratches usually benefits accuracy ... a lot of copper fouling or any other kind of fouling is NOT good ... I don't aggressively scrub every single bit of copper fouling out of my barrels ... "breaking in" a barrel is actually smoothing over internal bore imperfections and scratches with copper "fouling"
Triggers can also affect accuracy.
Through reloading I've found that particular rifles, even of the same make and model, like different bullet specs more than others. My grandpa and uncle both bought identical browning x-bolt WGM in 7mm mag. One held a tighter group with 140gr projectiles and one held tighter with 160gr.
In one of my reloading books theres an article that claims 90% of accuracy comes from what bullet you choose, can be the same weight even but different manufacturer of projectile, doesnt matter what powder and primer you use if the bullet rifle diesnt like that bullet
Great content. Thank you.
Most hunting rifle stocks have a raised pressure bump 2 inches back from the stock front. This is for up pressure on whippie bbl's. this requires a specific tork. The problem is under/over torking of the action screws, which will change POA greatly. The specific tork must be used anytime u separate action from stock. Do not remove pressure bump, or u will never zero that rifle again. To see if u have this, use the dollar.
The group size wasn’t mentioned at the beginning, just after the rifle was benched and it was found that the point of impact varied significantly from the point of aim.
This is a great video! A systematic approach to troubleshooting this accuracy issue, based on the ability to maintain a reasonable group size, would make an awesome video.
Caleb looks like a character from the 1950's. Is not an attack on him or a malicious comment. Actually I think that having such a distinctive look is cool!
Great video! My friend had this issue. Turns out that he replaced his variable power scope with a fixed. On sighting the rifle in the target could not be seen as well. Old eyes😂
My dad was struggling to zero his iron sights and red dot on his AR at 50 yards. He went to the car for some water, I grabbed it and zeroed both real quick (he was somewhat close). Old eyes + stubborn isn’t a good combination 😁. I didn’t tell him I did it, I just let him think he got it
Was he sighting it in at 500 yards?
@@whiskeykilmer1866 100 yards. Factory ammo was used, several were tried. When I shot the rifle I couldn’t see the target good enough to get the kind of group he was used to.
Check forend bedding screw torque also. Thank you guys.
That greaser haircut in 2022 is wild.
Limbsavers. Former cousin couldn't get his old man's rifled shotgun under 3" at 50 with several different slugs. We checked everything, then I had him check length of pull. Besides that being an inch too long I seen the limbsaver buckle in the crook of his elbow. Had him take it off and he tried to complain of a sore shoulder when I reminded him his slugs were touching at 100 and he should be done with the hunt in less than 3 slugs.
WHAT ! It’s never MY fault, where have you guys (trigger) been living 😜. Thanks for the vid, good “checks” that we all should remember. Be Safe out there.
Also, look at your crown and make sure there's no dents,scratches.
Have a Posen K98K built mauser rifle, at 100 yards i had to aim about 2.5 feet left and 3.5-4.0 low to land on paper at 100 yards. Checked my crown and the slightest 2 or 3 burrs in the grooves of the rifling was the cause, bullets didn't key hole surprisingly, gunsmith told me the gas seal around the bullet was interrupted by those burrs and causing my rifle to shoot high. 100 bucks later and practically a kiss from a recrown tool and its like a laser beam. Best 100 bucks I ever spent!
especially with the handloaders shift to copper, as the bullet seating depth requirements to make copper perform are different than lead.
Usually have to load those max length right?
@jackson thompson I purchased an overall lenght gauge from hornady. I have been playing with them and found that the best accuracy is achieved with a .020 space remaining between the ogive of the selected bullet and the lands of the rifling.
Copper fowling in a 270 wby mag built up at the muzzle and it ruined the accuracy of the bbl permanently, always use copper solvent in your rifles.
My 1895 Cowboy doesn't hate any particular ammunition, it hates it all. I can get anything from 1 foot to 1 yard spread at 100m. My 1895 SBL shoots hole in hole with Hornady. But the cb is just outright bad. Barrel gets hot, lead/copper fouling, handloads in all weightclasses, all powders, different brass, different primers, different factory ammo. Different COL... The gun is rock solid, polished internals, smooth as butter. Tried scopes, tried 3 different types of iron sights, ranger point precision, marbles and even Skinner sights. No difference. It is 100% something inside the barrel at this point. So i slugged the barrel, no difference in resistance through out, no particular place in the barrel gets leaded/or coppered more than another one. It has at this point around 5-600 shots through it. Rifling looks a little rough from factory (remington) but the rest of the rifle is outstanding. Even the wood is impeccable. Does anyone else has these problems with their 28 inch 45-70's? its been many years of experimenting and i will probably never pull the trigger pointing this rifle at an animal. What could it possibly be? The rifling?
I am a newbie and ended up not having the the rings secured down properly. It was secured tight but on one ring tightened off on the pic rail. I noticed this after looking from the front of the rifle and the scope was pointing off to one side. By the way, checked after pulling out the bolt.
I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why my rifle was so inaccurate but my friends was so accurate i knew I was capable of great grouping cuz I could do it with his! Turns out surplus ammo was the problem I had no idea
I damaged the crown on the barrel of my first AR, was told they are basically 22 calibers so my dumb self used a metal bristle cleaning tool for a 22 for it, went in about half an inch and got stuck when I pulled it out had scarring on it and accuracy was garbage at 50 yards after that lol learned a huge lesson that day lol
That was a funny question Steve, I was just thinking the other day, I wonder if Caleb is gonna come home one day😂🤣😂
Nice point but you guy didn't mention the barrel vibration which causes bullet deflection and barrel whip.
Some body said not to have the scoop next to the focus and the ring clamps might damage the scoop
...and keep the Dapper Dan off your trigger finger...
FOP is ok though.🤣
Great vid Dudes. I'd love to see a sequel to this vid wherein you talk about NEW outta the box rifles that aren't accurate and say are holding a crappy but consistent 2-3 MOA. I bought a Savage 93 in 17 HMR that had this problem. Everything was tight and torqued and that thing wouldn't shoot any ammo better than about 4 MOA. I had the barrel tapped and put an Eric Cortina Tuner on that got me down to almost 1 MOA. Glass bedded the stock and that got me the rest of the way. Had I not found out about the option of barrel tuners I was ready to sell that rifle off as a lemon as the cost of a new barrel is more than the retail cost of the rifle.
I've always wondered why long distance shooters use bolt action instead of the AR10 platform.
Lone star arms is probably the most accurate AR10 rifle you can get, also has minimal suppressor shift. But its a 30-40 Benjamin rifle.
Yup yup, definitely have never forgotten my tools at home when out shooting. Fo' Sho. Never happened before.
In my feeble attempts to grow a brain I put all the tools for a new rifle, scope and rings in a zip lock bag and put it in my range bag.
"Are Caleb's hand loads better than Nosler?" is my suggestion for a Smithbuster episode
Being nervous about your Bud Light stock, and contribute to errant shots.
What does a damaged crown look like, or how can you tell its damaged?
Hate it when things go Bad Wrong
Hell yeah
I found oil inside the rings that allowed the scope to slide around.
I just have to say thanks to brownells for making sure that my order was correct today. They called me to verify that I was who i said I was and that my card number wasn't being used by some scumbag thief.
You guys are great. But I really wish you weren't sold out of sig stuff so often. Haha everybody stop buying sig for a month so I can get stocked up on my stuff.
Anyway, thanks for the video fellers...ya got a lot of good info.
I remember buying a synthetic stock for my 30/06 and had to custom fit it to my barrel after receiving it from Cabela’s. It had a full aluminum bedding and was a quality piece but it had to be custom fit (it wasn’t drop in) like it should have been) may have been a QC issue at the manufacture? Like 15 yrs ago if me work serves.
I once had a 300 win mag that I took to an old timer gunsmith to have him thread the barrel and add a muzzle break. I was having an impossible time getting it to group after that. Finally I removed the muzzle break and I saw that the gunsmith had threaded the barrel off-center by a whole millimeter and every round was skipping off the inside of the muzzle brake as it left the barrel. After that I considered the rifle to be fairly worthless.
Cut the barrel again and re thread
Can u really use mineral oil to prevent firearm rust?
Fun video guys, thanks.
What is your take on using copper solvents for cleaning bores?
They have covered bore cleaning multiple times, it’s rarely needed under normal conditions.
If your hunting rig sees 20 rounds a year, bore snake and lube. If your round count is approaching 1000 and the crown is carbon fouled, good copper solvent and decarb will do wonders. If you know the rifle you will see it. 1 moa will turn into 2 or 3 using the same ammo.
Thanks for the answer, being retired I excerize my two hunting rifles twice a month running about 20 rounds through them in-between pinking with 5 clips from a M1. After 15 and 25 years the two deer rifles still hold 1 moa. The Garand is still holding 2 and I have put well over 1000 rounds through it. I use copper solvent to clean all of them.
I remember back in the mid 80's before deer season we went out to the range to check our sight-ins. My rifle is a Mod 94 30-30 that my dad got right after coming home from the Korean War and had a gunsmith install a Redfield peep sight on it, well at 100yrds I was hitting 2 1/2 to 3 inches low. It turned out to be the ammo I'd always shot 150gr bullets but we happened to of grabbed a box loaded with 180gr bullets out of the cabinet and the 30gr extra was enough to drop that much.
@@flat-earther do you want to buy some magic beans?
@@flat-earther beans that are magic
Loose muzzle brake killed me.
Great video
the dad and older brother i never had
And what if none of these things are the issue?
Also check which eye is your centering eye
Yes TOOLS in the range bag! Range bag always w you at the range.
Everyone is all cerakote...i'm over here loving my blued firearms because i know if my firearm is wet or not. Moisture gets behind cerakote but the surface is dry looking!
Related to the "you" part of it...temperature. If it was 75 degrees last time you shot it and it's 25 degrees this time your shots will be off.
How much could a loose bolt shroud affect accuracy? Even if it seems purposeful because it came from the factory that way?
I got a Remington 700 adl in 223 shoots a 6” group at 25 yards had 2 different gun smiths look at it they can’t find anything wrong I bedded the stock still no change changed scopes mounts and then got it down to a 2” group at 25 with some 40 gn hand loads it’s become a personal mission to get this rifle to shoot right probably hock it after that I really don’t like it or the caliber but I just can’t in good conscience give someone a weapon that is useless so it’s my baby till it’s right
Most people will always blame the weapon and not that themselves. Make sure you don't close your eyes when you are about to squish the trigger. 😂😂😂😂😂
Always mind your ammo. I missed a buck recently because I mistakenly loaded 180 grain thinking I was shooting 165. 180 drops 5 inches lower at 200 yards and went right under him🤦
“Bad wrong” or BADONG…Kung pow.
Please explain how a loose stock can affect accuracy. Thanks
WHAT IS AGRIGLASS?! Never heard of it!!
I'll disagree with the pressure point needing to be there on a Ruger M77. I've sanded it down on several models of that rifle and never seen a decrease in accuracy on any of them, but have seen an increase on several.
They are definitely a bear to bed. Handsome rifles, but frustrating.
@@randymagnum143 I'd agree with that, but I've only ever bedded M77's. If I had ever bedded a 700 I'd probably agree 100%. My stainless/laminate M77 Mk2 7mm Rem mag shot about 1¼" with the factory bedding and pressure point. After I glass bedded and free floated it I got a ⅝" group out of it. I didn't shoot it enough before hand to say if 1¼" was as good as it could do, but I like to give myself some credit.
How can a rifle (of "modern" form -- like a pre-64 Winchester) be "made" to NOT free-float -- and properly free-floating it be a detriment? I thought we're talking straight-forward physics here, when we say that free-floating is better.
If you are not bedding with accraglass, what are you doing with your life?😂
Hunters shoot out barrels all the time (on a rifle range)
Are SAAM1 loads created for accuracy or are they the most accurate loads for the gun or have nothing to do with accuracy and are just to be within pressures for the barrel and components?
Thus pressure has nothing to do with accuracy, just safety….🤷♀️
And is there a formula to deduce that comes up with an accuracy quotient for each gun and round exempting the individual firing it.
I mean pressure with weight length shape and amount and burn time of powder and rifling should be able to be factored in to eliminate experimenting that could be ruled out. And you could just create the perfect cartridge for your specific gun.
it sounds theoretical to me anyway. 🤷♀️
🚶🚪🦖
good tips, but what I expect for accuracy is different than the next guys, etc, if I can't hit sub moa at 400 I am not happy, I get sub moa with 22 wmr at a 100 m with bench and bag
Sure.
@@whiskeykilmer1866 what would you call hitting Rolaids at 100, RPRR hit 8 of 10 consistently
Another accuracy-robbing factor that effects hunters is degrading vision as you get older. Many humans develop astigmatism, presbyopia or other eye issues when they reach their 40s. Have your eyes checked and fix your eye glasses prescription before you blame your sights, scope, rings or mount.
I have a question about rifle accuracy. I have 2 "Take Down" rifles.. both Ruger.. 1 is the 10/22 TakeDown Backpacker the other is the Ruger PC Carbine.
Both have iron sites that are mounted on the barrel side of the separation but any scope you mound is on the Fire Control side with the trigger/mag etc.. so when you separate the rifle into 2 sections the optics stay on the back side.. Have either of you seen where you site it in at whatever range, then separate the barrel from the back section, reconnect it either same shooting relay or at another day and suddenly the POI is off from POA?
My hunting plug rattles in my Mossberg 930 mag tube like crazy if anyone has any tips on stopping this I would love to hear it!
I damaged the stock on my 700 and my accuracy went tits up. I'm looking at one of the Magpul long action chassis/stock. Is there another option that doesn't weigh a ton? I live in Arizona and I typically hike 20 + miles per day while Elk hunting at altitude.
I have found that 50% of accuracy issues are from the trigger nut.
Hey Caleb, you know what happens when you assume.
You think you have a clean gun and then you use a borescope to have a look. Hours later you do have a clean gun and you start cleaning the rest of your firearms after you have checked them with a borescope. Days later you are happy you have clean firearms and are glad you bought a borescope.
Oh, you have accuracy issues? Must've bought an (insert brand you don't like)
I have a rem 700 that when I shot it, it feels that the brass gets stuck and its really hard to get out. when loading and unloading and not firing it works just fine. any ideas?
I don't know much, but I have that same problem with one of my rifles, but only with a couple of factory loads, and once with a little hot reloads. Not sure if the brass is just expanding more when fired due to thickness, tolerances. Never had, or have it with Hornady, Federal or other good brand of ammunition. The worse brand was Aguila, and I can't think of the other ones I purchased during the ammunition shortage. Still have some to run, but hesitant to finish the boxes as I don't want to cause any damage to the extractor or other part.
I’d try cleaning the chamber out with a brush. I’ve had oil get in and dry causing cases to want to stay in there.
Don’t have your rifles worked at Hyatt’s gun range!! I should have known better to trust a business that started as a pawn shop! They ruined a AR 300 blkout and a cz 527 of mine! Bent the handle to my bolt so it would jam against the scope and then tryed to blame me for having the wrong scope mounts when the day before there was no issues with it!! Bunch of cowards that are known for this kind of bs from others that I talked to after the said event!!
I Wonder why there are such divergent opinions about copper fouling. There are people who assert that it improves accuracy and people that assert it degrades accuracy? 🤔
I gave up on my last range trip the rifle was fine but I had way to much coffee and zero food. I couldn’t stop shaking
Caleb's job is what ? Grease hair, and proclaim expert on every gun ever made ? Greasing hair is an art, apparently.
My 300 win mag Weatherby Vanguard is bedded. Lol 1st gen aka HOWA1500.
If I don’t hit the target I just blame climate change
Steel cased russian crap will degrade accuracy big time.
Is there info you can list for that statement? Thanks
I have a csa VZ 58 chambered in 7.62x39 and it shoots about 8-12 moa with brass case Norma Tactical 124 grain. However when I shoot 122 grain Global Ordinance steel cases, my groups shrink to 1.2-1.4 moa. I'm not saying one is inherently more accurate than another, im saying different guns with different ammo are going to perform well differently. If you want accuracy you should test multiple different loads and find what works best in your gun.
@@anthonyouteiral6433 It's kind of the same deal with .22LR. Sure the likes of Eley Super Hyper Turbo Match Dominator ammo is ludicrously consistent and accurate in the nice match guns it's designed for, but when your mate starts trying to run it in his shithouse semi auto it'll do worse than the crappiest American .22.
Caleb, please stop talking over the master gunsmith.
Lost me at "you!" Less than 1 min. I was expecting something above newbie.
If you were giving an opinion if your scope is so your rings get right against the bell or back against the power dial can that stress the scope to knock it off zero
Either way we need more Japanese factory street legal dual sport 450s .......
I am happy with my DRZ.