I was surprised by that rating! They must have really busted their butts, which means it was likely a 5 star match but because WWE made too big a deal out of them being little people the story was just stupid!
You guys should really watch the WeeLC match. It's an absolute banger, especially for a comedy match. Plus there's some pretty cool spots in the match that'll keep you entertained.
I remember Meltzer saying something like that his ratings aren't necessarily how great the match is but how rewatchable it is. So basically a -4 ⭐ match isn't watchable at all but a 5.5⭐ match is very rewatchable, in his opinion.
Also, he did walk back the Hogan André rating, because "it wasn't good in ring, but the crowd loved it, and that's more important than I gave it credit for"
He never said that but he did change the rating for hogan and andre the rating is actually 1 star he changed it a couple years after it happened because people complained about it
The thing with Dave Meltzer is he has got a lot more lenient with his ratings in recent years. He was way more ruthless back in the day. It’s part of the reason Bryan Danielson didn’t have a 5 star match until he got to AEW, despite putting on bangers in ROH. WWE hadn’t had a 5 star match for like 6 years at one point lol
@@darkability1393 no hes not, he rated nxt matches high as well, he rate good wrestling matches high and WWE for a good decade didn't put on any great matches
@@godusopp2752 With the amount of greats with 0 5 star matches or barely any (I think stone cold, the Rock, Kurt Angle, Undertaker etc) you can't trust a thing he says
@@darkability1393 kurt angle not having any is a travesty I agree , but the thing is angle came out in a time where Dave made his star system extremely strick , if angle wrestled today he’d have about 20 5 star matches , Taker should have a couple with Shawn , Foley and Austin and the rock should have some but Dave is not as bad as everyone makes him seem
The reason Hogan vs Andre was so low was because it came at the very end of Andre's career. He had so many back, hip, and knee problems he could barely walk, let alone wrestle.
@@KarpeNoktum The faces André makes make it harder to watch. Those aren't the expressions of a heel selling (André didn't really sell much). Those are the expression of a man in very real pain. And he makes them just by moving.
11:11 I'm pretty sure Meltzer goes off just the wrestling. I seem to remember him giving Matches a DUD because they didn't have much wrestling, even if they told a good story.
@@darkability1393 But ther are like prizes for best Actor and best Story or am I wrong and if you rate a WRESTLING match and not a STORY then why focus on story. Though I would agree it makes zero sense to give high stars for a match without a godd story. Btw. The caps are just there to highlight what I mean not to offende anybody. Have a nice day :-)
@@ouroborus6951 But those best actor things are still about the story. How engaging your acting makes the stiry, how your acting evokes emotions. It's not "Which actor did the most/best stunts." And yes, it's a wrestling match, and wrestling is about the story and the characters, otherwise it's just 2 almost naked men pretending to punch eachother. And thank you, have a nice day too!
Gargano Vs Cole at takeover new york is my fav WRESTLING match of all time. Johnny finally overcame all the odds and achieved his childhood dream in an amazing match. The fact that it was 2 out 3 falls made it that much better.
I can't say that, I saw Michaels vs. Taker... I believe the first one was the better one but I honestly can't remember which was which as both were pretty damn good!
Dusty Rhodes is a multiple time NWA World Champion. You guys are probably talking about Dusty and Jake are legendary guys to have never won a championship in WWE.
He's the one that made this stupid star rating popular so OF COURSE! Stop putting so much stock into it and like what you want, I like what I like and if Uncle Dave doesn't good for him!
Since you mentioned Kenny Omega... Fun Fact: Omega VS Okada was the first match to ever get over 6 stars fro Meltzer. This is what spawned Kenny's nickname, "The best bout machine". the the only other match before their match at wrestlekingdome to get over 5 stars was Flair Vs Steamboat in WCW
WeeLC match was a banger. It was actually the 2nd highest rated match of the night tied with Daniel Bryan vs Kane main event and behind Shield vs Evolution which was rated 4.5 stars.
Got onto the bus with the other poor people. Loudly ask “anyone else see Mustache Bros video today?” A large man came up to me and said “quit dickriding, you’ll never be Dante.” and slapped my ziploc bag full of spaghetti out of my hands. Overall, good video ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
This might be the most difficdult one for me. SPOILERS for guesses: 1) 4 1/2 stars (Dammit, for a quarter I was wrong!) 2) 3 stars (Wow, I underestimated him!) 3) 4 1/4 stars (off by one whole star!) 4) 2 1/2 stars (counting it as a W, was it really that awful?) 5) 3 3/4 stars (I thought Dave wasn't much of a fan of deathmatches!) 6) 2 stars (what?! It was that bad?! Still a W. BTW, Dusty did win a world title, just not in WWE) 7) 5 stars (I never would have though a WWE could go over 5!) 8) 3 3/4 stars (props to the two!) 9) 3 1/2 stars (Dammit, for a quarter I could have had a point!) 10) 2 3/4 stars (wow!) 11) 3 stars (I got it right down the middle, daddy! btw, watch this match, it's better than it has any right to be) 12) -2 stars (he hated this match back then, it won Worst Match of 1987) 13) 2 1/2 stars (expected less, but I dig it) 14) -2 stars (this one I know for a fact, that's how much of a disaster it was) 15) DUD (that match was "Mania 28 Opener 2 Electric Boob-a-loo") 7 points, I expected less
People hate on the ratings scale but it’s pretty fair. He’s a wrestling historian, he’s seen over a million matches. A 5 star match has to not only be great in ring but have a great story leading into it, During it and moving forward. At the end of the day it’s just his opinion but he’s well respected by even wrestlers themselves.
It's completely biased. Japanese matches get extra stars just for being in Japan. Why should his rating matter over any other journalists opinion or fan opinion? Many movie sites use 5 star systems but in wrestling he is the only one allowed? Or the only one that matters? That's weird. Imagine if actors only cared about Roger Ebert score and nobody else.
True, but people also put too much weight into them as well! Dave himself, which is one of the reasons I took more of a likely to him, has stated that it's HIS own opinion and people shouldn't put so much into what he says was good and wasn't. People all like different things and we NEED to stop letting that make us hate each other!
@@stingersplash He's NOT the only one ALLOWED, he's just the only one that people have ever cared about! You're likely just upset because he doesn't like WWE's SPORTS-ENTERTAINMENT as much as he like NJPW's WRESTLING, and yes there IS a difference! In this Dave and I agree one, in fact WWE crap is probably why WeeLC only has 3 stars, too much commentary about how the competitors are "tiny, little men how could they possibly actually wrestle" or the like, which DOES take away from the wrestling!
I genuinely think Meltzer rates the matches like this If there is : - Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, Tomasso Ciampa, Aleister Black, +1 star - 2016-2020 NXT match +1 Star - Any AEW match, +2 star - Kenny Omega +2 star - any Japanese promotions +2 star - Wrestled in a Japanese promotion before, +2 star - any Divas match -1 star
Does anyone else see John peeking every now and the at dantes board 😂 should have two chairs facing each other at an angle where you can’t easily see the other persons board
I was feverishly waiting for Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega at Dominion Osaka Jo Hall, 6/9/2018 but then you guys nixed Omega matches and I was let down. Go check out how this match broke Meltzer. Still one the best I've ever seen.
A reminder - Celebs Always Win at Wrestlemania Also, Andre was good in the late 70's/early 80's and there's even French wrestling from the 60's on YT that really shows his skills off, but by WM3, he was basically a broken down guy with severe health problems, who basically didn't wrestle from late in the previous year to WM 3.
WeeLC is a fantastic match actually. They put their souls into and it’s awesome. The whole match is on WWE’s RUclips, if you haven’t watched it yet it’s well worth it
I got 17 normal right and as always I wadgered it all and finished with Dante donut All of the 1 pts questions are based off of you guys so let’s say the rating is 4.5 and I put 4.25 John puts 5 and Dante puts 4.75 me and Dante gets the point
The thing about Andre the giant vs Hogan was that Andre was so out of shape and unable to professionally wrestle idk how he did it. He couldn’t even walk to the ring. But that slam spot is iconic
I think one of the things people don't seem to pick up on with meltzers system that leads to a lot of complaints is that he focuses on the technical quality and work rate of the matches so there are plenty of things he will say in his review he enjoyed but won't get a high star rating because it doesn't meet the criteria he put in place for the star system.
WeeLC genuinely a sleeper hit of a match. Everyone in it fully committed to the ridiculousness and it paid off. Definitely worth a watch.
Best match that night lol
Both wrestlers are great to
Finally! A recommendation I get behind!
Without a doubt, 5 star match. Drew jumping through a table for no reason! So good
I genuinely guessed its rating. From what I've heard, it was about as good as you could reasonably expect from the match.
Daniel Bryan and Kenny Omega talking backstage at AEW
Meltzer: "God damn it, 7 ⭐ "
‘My tag team partner… who I’ll never betray, Dante.” I can see a heel turn happening 😂
Right! lol
And he lost too…. He definitely turning heel
This is gonna hurt more than Ciampa turning on Gargano.
we want a heel turn
😂
El Torito vs Hornswoggle was one of those matches that had no reason being as good as it was
I was surprised by that rating! They must have really busted their butts, which means it was likely a 5 star match but because WWE made too big a deal out of them being little people the story was just stupid!
@@JacksonOwex probably because of the mini versions of JBL, Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 i think you mean micro cole, jerry the “mini king” lawler and wee bl
Izzy showing that she knows literally **nothing** about wrestling will always get me 😂
H H H. Not triple H
Then she can’t give any hints at all
LOL
she mouse
H h h armuh get on 😂
i know for a fact, Meltzer would give those mustaches 5/5 stars
4/5 stars because they werent in the Tokyo Dome
@@demigodzay8597 beat me to it lmao
@@demigodzay8597 damn straight
Huge W
You guys should really watch the WeeLC match. It's an absolute banger, especially for a comedy match. Plus there's some pretty cool spots in the match that'll keep you entertained.
McIntyre doing a tope thru a table for no reason at all lives rent free in my mind.
WeeLC was booked as a joke and went on to almost be match of the night... Even though it was on the preshow....
I remember Meltzer saying something like that his ratings aren't necessarily how great the match is but how rewatchable it is. So basically a -4 ⭐ match isn't watchable at all but a 5.5⭐ match is very rewatchable, in his opinion.
Also, he did walk back the Hogan André rating, because "it wasn't good in ring, but the crowd loved it, and that's more important than I gave it credit for"
It's like they say: It's only known for that one iconic moment but the match itself was far from good
Ratings aren't really telling the whole truth
He never said that but he did change the rating for hogan and andre the rating is actually 1 star he changed it a couple years after it happened because people complained about it
I don’t get we’re he gets-4 for that match. Andre was dying and came back to WWE for a bit. The match is one of the best ever. This guys an idiot
The thing with Dave Meltzer is he has got a lot more lenient with his ratings in recent years. He was way more ruthless back in the day. It’s part of the reason Bryan Danielson didn’t have a 5 star match until he got to AEW, despite putting on bangers in ROH. WWE hadn’t had a 5 star match for like 6 years at one point lol
Also he is quite biased against wwe lol
@@darkability1393 no hes not, he rated nxt matches high as well, he rate good wrestling matches high and WWE for a good decade didn't put on any great matches
@@godusopp2752 With the amount of greats with 0 5 star matches or barely any (I think stone cold, the Rock, Kurt Angle, Undertaker etc) you can't trust a thing he says
@@darkability1393 kurt angle not having any is a travesty I agree , but the thing is angle came out in a time where Dave made his star system extremely strick , if angle wrestled today he’d have about 20 5 star matches , Taker should have a couple with Shawn , Foley and Austin and the rock should have some but Dave is not as bad as everyone makes him seem
@@godusopp2752 He's not some god of wrestling who is who decides what's good and not though. He's just some guy
i get so hyped when you upload these, i even play along, pretending im apart of it. its fun
Thanks for watching!
The Evolution Charlotte vs Becky match was literally the match of the year in 2018 guys
"-4 for the slam" - someone who's never watched what happened before the slam 😂
You guys should record yourselves watching the WeeLC match. It’s surprisingly good!
Guess the match stars part 2
WeeLC is a treat. It’s also one of the most extreme modern day matches I’ve seen.
Low key, that WeeLC match was fire lmao. I was there LIVE for that.
The reason Hogan vs Andre was so low was because it came at the very end of Andre's career. He had so many back, hip, and knee problems he could barely walk, let alone wrestle.
I thought you said whistle xD
And couple it up with Hulk Hogan doing Hogan shit where he gets beaten entire match and doing hulk up and winning in last 2 minutes.
@@Ashhad1400 that sounds like most super cena matches as well
No reason to go negative tho
This was fun. Quite hard as well. Didn't see the André vs Hogan one coming
Bc of the Andre - Hogan rating, Meltzer DEFINITELY doesn't go off story . Just actual wrestling .
Cos that storyline is everything to the WWE
Yeah, and the moment is huge and iconic, but everything leading up to it isn't that great. Plus, that was the **finish**
@@KarpeNoktum The faces André makes make it harder to watch. Those aren't the expressions of a heel selling (André didn't really sell much). Those are the expression of a man in very real pain. And he makes them just by moving.
-4 stars for Andre the giant and Hulk Hogan is disrespectful... and HOW is Seth Rollins VS the fiend a higher rating?
11:11 I'm pretty sure Meltzer goes off just the wrestling. I seem to remember him giving Matches a DUD because they didn't have much wrestling, even if they told a good story.
To be fair, you don't need Meltzer giving a story a star rating (you can have a verbal description of it).
That's so dumb though. It's like a film reviewer ignoring the story of the film in their review
@@darkability1393 But ther are like prizes for best Actor and best Story or am I wrong and if you rate a WRESTLING match and not a STORY then why focus on story. Though I would agree it makes zero sense to give high stars for a match without a godd story.
Btw. The caps are just there to highlight what I mean not to offende anybody. Have a nice day :-)
@@ouroborus6951 But those best actor things are still about the story. How engaging your acting makes the stiry, how your acting evokes emotions. It's not "Which actor did the most/best stunts."
And yes, it's a wrestling match, and wrestling is about the story and the characters, otherwise it's just 2 almost naked men pretending to punch eachother.
And thank you, have a nice day too!
@@darkability1393 XD
Gargano Vs Cole at takeover new york is my fav WRESTLING match of all time. Johnny finally overcame all the odds and achieved his childhood dream in an amazing match. The fact that it was 2 out 3 falls made it that much better.
I can't say that, I saw Michaels vs. Taker... I believe the first one was the better one but I honestly can't remember which was which as both were pretty damn good!
Keep in mind that Vince vs pat mcafee is higher rated than hogan vs Andre
Dusty Rhodes is a multiple time NWA World Champion. You guys are probably talking about Dusty and Jake are legendary guys to have never won a championship in WWE.
They're wwe marks lol. But they're cool
Oh god anyone but Meltzer
He's the one that made this stupid star rating popular so OF COURSE! Stop putting so much stock into it and like what you want, I like what I like and if Uncle Dave doesn't good for him!
Since you mentioned Kenny Omega... Fun Fact: Omega VS Okada was the first match to ever get over 6 stars fro Meltzer. This is what spawned Kenny's nickname, "The best bout machine". the the only other match before their match at wrestlekingdome to get over 5 stars was Flair Vs Steamboat in WCW
Misawa vs Kawada actually got 6 in the 90s
@@Venylynn interesting. it wasn't listed on the list as 6v stars on the list i read
I was there for that hell in a call the boos and aew chants made my body shake and hurt my throat lol
Fun fact: the nikki bella vs AJ Lee match was 33 seconds.
Love the content! Keep it up John and Dante! How about for a video idea you try to guess the wrestler by the name of their theme song?
The WEELC match was unironically fire man, y'all gotta check it out. It's free on youtube.
Maybe they should do a tournament where the best signature move or finishing move is defined.
I do remember Andre vs Hogan being hard to watch haha
boring as fuck
El Torito VS Horns is better than Brock Vs John Cena... Thank You Dave for this little pearls
This is difficult because Meltzer is such a weirdo when it comes to his ratings
WeeLC match was a banger. It was actually the 2nd highest rated match of the night tied with Daniel Bryan vs Kane main event and behind Shield vs Evolution which was rated 4.5 stars.
As long as John wins 🏅
You should play wwe superstar guess who by answering with yes or no questions and see who does it in the fewest guesses
Got onto the bus with the other poor people. Loudly ask “anyone else see Mustache Bros video today?” A large man came up to me and said “quit dickriding, you’ll never be Dante.” and slapped my ziploc bag full of spaghetti out of my hands. Overall, good video ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
LMAOO
The WeeLC match and Sami Zayn vs Johnny Knoxville falls in the same category you just have see it believe how good these matches really are
I dig the Flyers hat John. Oilers fan here
Would be fun to see a Guess the height of the wrestler, got the idea while watching this
15:49 that match was like 5 seconds bc Brie distracted AJ w/ a kiss lol
John already won with that hat on 🔥🔥
do a "Who wants to be a Millionaire" with Wrestling questions !
John Cena vs RVD was one of the best Cena matches ever
Minus 5 STARS!
WeeLC was one of my favorites lol it was so good and put together good
Hey Dante and John, I love the awesome wrestling content!
Thank you!
That traditional 5 on 5 was damn good
Y’all should do guess the wrestlers debut.
You guys should do a reaction of those matches that surprised you for how it was rated
So down for this 🙌🏻🙌🏻
This might be the most difficdult one for me. SPOILERS for guesses:
1) 4 1/2 stars (Dammit, for a quarter I was wrong!)
2) 3 stars (Wow, I underestimated him!)
3) 4 1/4 stars (off by one whole star!)
4) 2 1/2 stars (counting it as a W, was it really that awful?)
5) 3 3/4 stars (I thought Dave wasn't much of a fan of deathmatches!)
6) 2 stars (what?! It was that bad?! Still a W. BTW, Dusty did win a world title, just not in WWE)
7) 5 stars (I never would have though a WWE could go over 5!)
8) 3 3/4 stars (props to the two!)
9) 3 1/2 stars (Dammit, for a quarter I could have had a point!)
10) 2 3/4 stars (wow!)
11) 3 stars (I got it right down the middle, daddy! btw, watch this match, it's better than it has any right to be)
12) -2 stars (he hated this match back then, it won Worst Match of 1987)
13) 2 1/2 stars (expected less, but I dig it)
14) -2 stars (this one I know for a fact, that's how much of a disaster it was)
15) DUD (that match was "Mania 28 Opener 2 Electric Boob-a-loo")
7 points, I expected less
andre the giant was a beast. check out his documentary on hbo
I've seen it! Really powerful doc
People hate on the ratings scale but it’s pretty fair. He’s a wrestling historian, he’s seen over a million matches. A 5 star match has to not only be great in ring but have a great story leading into it, During it and moving forward. At the end of the day it’s just his opinion but he’s well respected by even wrestlers themselves.
Come on dude.
It's completely biased. Japanese matches get extra stars just for being in Japan. Why should his rating matter over any other journalists opinion or fan opinion?
Many movie sites use 5 star systems but in wrestling he is the only one allowed? Or the only one that matters? That's weird. Imagine if actors only cared about Roger Ebert score and nobody else.
He is super biased.
True, but people also put too much weight into them as well! Dave himself, which is one of the reasons I took more of a likely to him, has stated that it's HIS own opinion and people shouldn't put so much into what he says was good and wasn't. People all like different things and we NEED to stop letting that make us hate each other!
@@stingersplash He's NOT the only one ALLOWED, he's just the only one that people have ever cared about! You're likely just upset because he doesn't like WWE's SPORTS-ENTERTAINMENT as much as he like NJPW's WRESTLING, and yes there IS a difference! In this Dave and I agree one, in fact WWE crap is probably why WeeLC only has 3 stars, too much commentary about how the competitors are "tiny, little men how could they possibly actually wrestle" or the like, which DOES take away from the wrestling!
You can't really trust Meltzer though
I genuinely think Meltzer rates the matches like this
If there is :
- Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, Tomasso Ciampa, Aleister Black, +1 star
- 2016-2020 NXT match +1 Star
- Any AEW match, +2 star
- Kenny Omega +2 star
- any Japanese promotions +2 star
- Wrestled in a Japanese promotion before, +2 star
- any Divas match -1 star
A match involving actual stars with mainstream recognition and biggest draws, -2 stars.
Tokyo Dome +1 star
“Arm a A Ged ON”
Keep making videos, these are great!
Will do!
When John gets both belts He should go on a heel run
dante’s the more natural heel
I was hoping Kenny Omega vs Kazuchika okada would be in this video
Does anyone else see John peeking every now and the at dantes board 😂 should have two chairs facing each other at an angle where you can’t easily see the other persons board
16:24 PERIODDD
This episode was awesome!
Thank you! We had fun with this one
really hard to figure out these ratings ! Great job guys
Thanks!
This could be a good question for the near future, what was the last WWE match to receive a five star rating that was not an NXT related event?
Punk vs Cena MITB
@@ronitbaidya664 Bingo!
Only Meltzer can come up with such crap ratings
Meltzer:El Torito vs Hornswoggle= 3 Stars
Meltzer:Hogan vs Andre= -4 Stars
Kenny Omega has 6 and 7 star matches rated by Meltzer
I love the flyers hat, John
dave meltzer rates in ring wrestling he doesn’t care about crowd or how big it was ..just in ring
Maybe the former and retired LWF belt could make a nice MBW title, similarly to how they brought in the "big gold" belt from WCW
I was feverishly waiting for Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega at Dominion Osaka Jo Hall, 6/9/2018 but then you guys nixed Omega matches and I was let down. Go check out how this match broke Meltzer. Still one the best I've ever seen.
Rvd vs Cena is definitely at least 4 star, Meltzer Is way off on that one
Let’s GO!!!!
H-H-H 💀that was hilarious
Im surprise they didnt do Jon Moxley vs Kenny Omega at full gear 2019 star ratings
A reminder - Celebs Always Win at Wrestlemania
Also, Andre was good in the late 70's/early 80's and there's even French wrestling from the 60's on YT that really shows his skills off, but by WM3, he was basically a broken down guy with severe health problems, who basically didn't wrestle from late in the previous year to WM 3.
😂😂 she said HHH not triple H 😂😂😂
Armaged-awn
weelc was my fav match that year honestly
I don't like Dave meltzer. I don't believe that a journalist should be biased. I did enjoy the video though.
WeeLC is a fantastic match actually. They put their souls into and it’s awesome. The whole match is on WWE’s RUclips, if you haven’t watched it yet it’s well worth it
She said “HHH” 😂
You need to watch the WeeLC match simply for “Micro” Cole and Jerry the King “Smaller” on commentary.
the divas championship match is the one where brie bella distracts aj lee and then kisses her, nikki picks her up does her finisher and wins the title
I dont know if I can get over that flyers hat
Dante Dos Belts dethroned!!
I got 17 normal right and as always I wadgered it all and finished with Dante donut
All of the 1 pts questions are based off of you guys so let’s say the rating is 4.5 and I put 4.25 John puts 5 and Dante puts 4.75 me and Dante gets the point
Meltzer has always had his back up about WWE Shawn Michael's only ever got 1, 5 star match
He’s got 2
The thing about Andre the giant vs Hogan was that Andre was so out of shape and unable to professionally wrestle idk how he did it. He couldn’t even walk to the ring. But that slam spot is iconic
Yet it will be remembered and has more impact than all those Kenny Omega matches..It is a 5 star for me..No argument
Did they say Dusty Rhodes never won a word title? He won the NWA world title three times. Know your wrestling history guys.
you guys should do a gm mode series
Hi guys
How can i send u a theme song list on spotify for u to play??
Dusty never won the WWF World Championship but he was a World Champion.
should’ve added a couple dud rated matches in the mix
For u to get 5 stars
Match should be in Japan
Match should be full of kicks
Match should have many high spots
No selling in the match
Dont forget the meaningless false finishes 😂😂😂
WAIT! MELTZER rated WeeLC higher than 0 stars?! They must have busted it out to trip his trigger!
WeeLC was great
It was a fun match
Kenny Omega vs Okada shoulda been up there
She says Chris Jerk-O hahaha
Tell her she's wrong, I dare you. LOL.
W Vid
What happened to the nvw belt
I think one of the things people don't seem to pick up on with meltzers system that leads to a lot of complaints is that he focuses on the technical quality and work rate of the matches so there are plenty of things he will say in his review he enjoyed but won't get a high star rating because it doesn't meet the criteria he put in place for the star system.
His criteria is crap, wrestling isn't just "technical quality".
Also, how is the WeeLC match 3 stars then?