Thanks Dave, and Happy Passover. I just now purchased this on pre-order. Every time I watch your critiques that are positive I buy the box set. I'm loveing your channel and love all the personal touches you speak about of in your life.
For my tenth birthday, fifty years ago I was given four HMV LPs. Someone had twigged that I adored orchestral music. For those who cannot remember, a full price HMV LP cost £2/1/0 or two pounds, one shilling and no old currency pence. That was a lot of money in those days. The records were: Elgar's First in the cited recording. Schubert's Great C Magor with Barbirolli and the Halle. Schubert's Unfinished with the RLPO and Groves. And my favourite of the four, Beethoven's Pastoral with the Philharmonia and Klemperer. Strangely I was asked which performances I would like to have! Seeing the picture of the CD of Elgar's First really brought a heart-bump! I had forgotten the light blue main area and picture of Elgar looking very dapper. Thank you for you videos. Best wishes from George
That would be a great topic for a future video: Great Music with Terrible Words. To that category I'd definitely add Michael Tippett's The Mask of Time!
A long list. Some parts of Sea Pictures might qualify. A shorter list would be great poetry indifferently set to music. As much as I enjoy most of Britten's word settings, for my taste he makes a mess of Owen's works in War Requiem.
Sir John's Symphony 1 would be on my faves list. Exactly what compelled teenaged me to pluck the Seraphim LP of it out of the classical bin of the Brookfield, Conn. Caldor, I'll never know. I'd heard of Elgar, but had never heard his major works. Wow! I was in love. It's interesting that EMI were (sic) recording Barbirolli and Boult doing this music at more or less the same time.
Funny - I bought that same Seraphim LP from a classical bin in a little shop in Harrisonburg, Virginia. They had maybe 30 or 40 classical records in total, and that was one of them. I had no idea what I was asking mom to buy me.
@@marknewkirk4322 Cool! And thanks. Mom. BTW, my sister attended Bridgewater College for two years before transferring. I recall the waitress at the local sandwich shop asking us "y'all Brethren?"
How many us, I wonder, bought that Seraphim LP not really knowing what it was but discovering, with the purchase, a life-long love of Elgar and of Barbirolli? That was certainly my experience: picked it up at a little book & record shop in Eugene, Oregon, 1968, on something of a whim. I'd heard of Elgar, but the only music I knew was his relegated-to-high- school-graduation Pomp & Circumstance #1. What a revelation. I can remember hearing those opening bars and just needing to sit down to try to take in what was happening to me in that long affecting build-up--everything swelling to that "nobilmente" theme. And the 3rd movement just tore me up. It still does. No one, to my mind, has ever captured the incredible soulfulness of that adagio more sympathetically than Barbirolli--the phrases caressed, sung, sighed--all perfectly judged but feeling as natural as breathing. It really put him on the map for me--the warm, deeply feeling, humane species of music-making that marks everything he did, from Elgar to Mahler to Sibelius to Puccini. In the end, it was a life-changing album in all sorts of ways, so it's very satisfying to hear Dave call it a reference version when it's been that for me over all these decades.
On this Easter weekend, I greatly appreciate your mention of Elgar's "Apostles", which contains the briefest, most subtle and sublimely beautiful recounting of Easter morning imaginable ("At the Sepulcher"), in addition to a few stunning, transcendental moments. Too bad Sir John didn't record it (but get Hickox if you can still find it). Yes, Barbirolli's "Gerontius" is amazing, especially the performance he pulls out of the choruses. Also glad to hear your evaluation of Barbirolli's Elgar 1st Symphony, the first and only version I've ever owned. My opinion of the Slow movement was entirely formed and "governed" by Sir John's interpretation, thus I've always regarded it as one of the most beautiful things ever written (and I'm NOT an Elgar fanatic, as I agree with you about the Cello Concerto and Falstaff). LR
He did. It was a more self-indulgent reading than with the Halle and not all that well received,. which is why, I suspect, the Halle version is in the box.
Barbirolli's Elgar Symphony No. 1 is one of my favourite recordings of anything by anybody (one of "Mark's Faves"). He does it as if it's the greatest music in the world. And in Part II of Gerontius, he gets the choir to lay it all on the line in the demons' and angels' choruses. Breathtaking. On the other hand, the bass soloist's English is comically bad - almost as bad as Boris Christoff trying to sing Nielsen's Saul and David in English on the old Horenstein live recording. But don't let that stop you. It's a great recording of Gerontius overall. What a pity that Barbirolli did not record The Apostles - that would be pure gold. I have Hickox in that piece. Is there a better one?
Dave, what do you think of Elgar’s Piano Quintet? I think it’s one of his very greatest works, as well as one of the greatest chamber works of the 20th century.
Couldn't agree with you more Dave about the Elgar Cello Concerto. It's often coupled with the Dvorak Cello Concerto and there is simply no comparison between the two.
I quite agree with you about some texts and libretti. Some are so ridiculous that one would be better off not understanding anything about the language they are written in. Glad to hear your opinion of the Cello Concerto. I have always found parts of it to be very ordinary.
Concerning the Cello Concerto, I agree 100% I enjoy much more the Finzi Cello Concerto. It's a shame she never recorded it, especially considering what I saw in the movie about her: sleeping with Finzi's son! Did this really happen?
I'm one who considers the Cello Concerto as Elgar's greatest, most concise, perhaps most deeply felt work. Superior to the violin concerto whose too long last mvt seems to me a miscalculation. The Cello Cto also seems to get programmed most often after the Dvorak along with Shostakovich 1. There's a reason.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Partly that, true. But better than Schumann's deary, gray concerto or Tchaikovsky's silly Rococo Variations. I wish the Haydns got programmed more than they do. Or that I actually understood Britten's Cello Symphony, a tough nut. Dvorak, Elgar, Shostakovich, an elite group, though I also love the Walton and the neglected Barber.
Thanks Dave ! It's becoming a catch phrase now! Try as I might, I have trouble really enjoying Elgar, and I can't understand why. I listen, and keep trying, and well, just don't click. The 2nd symphony i find somewhat, ,,,,ok, but find the sound,,,,,over ripe. Ill give sir John's first another listen, see what I'm missing. Paul
Dave, one thing I have realized. I used to way back when thought, wow, you really like a lot of music. But now I realize you have the best quality a critic can have. Give a fair shake an objective review for a performance of a work, that you recognize as important, but are not really a fan of. That is so admirable! We had a local critic, who when Bruckner was performed never gave a good review, even of a great performance, due to her bias. I love Bruckner, which I know you do also, despite what many may think, and it was so off putting. I keep trying and listening because of sibelius. For a long time he never clicked for me. Then in my 40s, after a few decades of listening he did! And wow! So I always come back to the composers I don't get now and then, just to see if lightening strikes again! Paul
@@flexusmaximus4701 Thanks for sharing this--and the best thing about it is that lightening does strike again, every so often, and that makes all the time and effort worthwhile.
Thank you! About terrible poetry in song texts - your comments reminded me of an occasion when Dvořák's song cycle 'Cypresses' was to be performed. The Czech pianist pleaded with the English singer not to sing it in Czech so he wouldn't have to hear the text!
The Elgar cello concerto is saved by the brilliant idea to suddenly bring back the beginning of the piece at the very end. It works so well that you forget how dreadful the last movement is.
[Phillip Brookes] Cockaigne should be pronounced 'Cock-ane'. It's a legendary land of milk and honey which, in Medieval times, became associated with London. It's almost certainly the origin of 'Cockney'. It's sometimes spelt Cockayne. A friend suggested to Elgar that his proposed Cockaigne No. 2, City of Dreadful Night, should be retitled Morphine because it would be soporific. Elgar replied, "Ether will do". (In the end much of it went into the E-flat Symphony.)
I cannot get on with Elgar's longer compositions. Boring, boring boring. His shorter works are really my cup of tea though. That Dave's favs disc with RVW is just mighty fine.
Outrageously DUMB question, Dave, but... If I already purchased the BIG [Barbirolli] BOX, do I already have these REMASTERED recordings? [i.e., do I need this one, too?]
A very fair review. I agree about the Gerontius text. Just horrid. Amazed you don't like the Cello concerto but each to there own. What's the Cockenya overture of which you speak? Just being picky!!.....
Thanks Dave, and Happy Passover. I just now purchased this on pre-order. Every time I watch your critiques that are positive I buy the box set. I'm loveing your channel and love all the personal touches you speak about of in your life.
Hope you enjoy it!
For my tenth birthday, fifty years ago I was given four HMV LPs. Someone had twigged that I adored orchestral music. For those who cannot remember, a full price HMV LP cost £2/1/0 or two pounds, one shilling and no old currency pence. That was a lot of money in those days.
The records were: Elgar's First in the cited recording. Schubert's Great C Magor with Barbirolli and the Halle. Schubert's Unfinished with the RLPO and Groves. And my favourite of the four, Beethoven's Pastoral with the Philharmonia and Klemperer. Strangely I was asked which performances I would like to have!
Seeing the picture of the CD of Elgar's First really brought a heart-bump! I had forgotten the light blue main area and picture of Elgar looking very dapper.
Thank you for you videos. Best wishes from George
That would be a great topic for a future video: Great Music with Terrible Words. To that category I'd definitely add Michael Tippett's The Mask of Time!
A long list. Some parts of Sea Pictures might qualify. A shorter list would be great poetry indifferently set to music. As much as I enjoy most of Britten's word settings, for my taste he makes a mess of Owen's works in War Requiem.
You could include quite a few Tippett works in that list Jed. At least The Shires Suite doesn't have that issue. He didn't write the text.
Thanks Dave, I ordered this a few days ago. Glad to hear your positive review! I am a Elgar fan.
Hi Dave. I love the Apostles too! Fabulous work. Do you think you could do a talk on that piece sometime?
Sure.
Sir John's Symphony 1 would be on my faves list. Exactly what compelled teenaged me to pluck the Seraphim LP of it out of the classical bin of the Brookfield, Conn. Caldor, I'll never know. I'd heard of Elgar, but had never heard his major works. Wow! I was in love. It's interesting that EMI were (sic) recording Barbirolli and Boult doing this music at more or less the same time.
Funny - I bought that same Seraphim LP from a classical bin in a little shop in Harrisonburg, Virginia. They had maybe 30 or 40 classical records in total, and that was one of them. I had no idea what I was asking mom to buy me.
@@marknewkirk4322 Cool! And thanks. Mom. BTW, my sister attended Bridgewater College for two years before transferring. I recall the waitress at the local sandwich shop asking us "y'all Brethren?"
How many us, I wonder, bought that Seraphim LP not really knowing what it was but discovering, with the purchase, a life-long love of Elgar and of Barbirolli? That was certainly my experience: picked it up at a little book & record shop in Eugene, Oregon, 1968, on something of a whim. I'd heard of Elgar, but the only music I knew was his relegated-to-high- school-graduation Pomp & Circumstance #1. What a revelation. I can remember hearing those opening bars and just needing to sit down to try to take in what was happening to me in that long affecting build-up--everything swelling to that "nobilmente" theme. And the 3rd movement just tore me up. It still does. No one, to my mind, has ever captured the incredible soulfulness of that adagio more sympathetically than Barbirolli--the phrases caressed, sung, sighed--all perfectly judged but feeling as natural as breathing. It really put him on the map for me--the warm, deeply feeling, humane species of music-making that marks everything he did, from Elgar to Mahler to Sibelius to Puccini. In the end, it was a life-changing album in all sorts of ways, so it's very satisfying to hear Dave call it a reference version when it's been that for me over all these decades.
@@tom6693 Tom--Yeah, that's how I feel about the 3rd Mvt, too. It' was a once-in-a-lifetime event in the history of recorded music.
On this Easter weekend, I greatly appreciate your mention of Elgar's "Apostles", which contains the briefest, most subtle and sublimely beautiful recounting of Easter morning imaginable ("At the Sepulcher"), in addition to a few stunning, transcendental moments. Too bad Sir John didn't record it (but get Hickox if you can still find it). Yes, Barbirolli's "Gerontius" is amazing, especially the performance he pulls out of the choruses.
Also glad to hear your evaluation of Barbirolli's Elgar 1st Symphony, the first and only version I've ever owned. My opinion of the Slow movement was entirely formed and "governed" by Sir John's interpretation, thus I've always regarded it as one of the most beautiful things ever written (and I'm NOT an Elgar fanatic, as I agree with you about the Cello Concerto and Falstaff). LR
Oh if only Barbirolli had recorded the Second with the Philharmonia...!
He did. It was a more self-indulgent reading than with the Halle and not all that well received,. which is why, I suspect, the Halle version is in the box.
@@leitfie3579 Did he? I've never come across it. Which label is it on?
Barbirolli's Elgar Symphony No. 1 is one of my favourite recordings of anything by anybody (one of "Mark's Faves"). He does it as if it's the greatest music in the world. And in Part II of Gerontius, he gets the choir to lay it all on the line in the demons' and angels' choruses. Breathtaking. On the other hand, the bass soloist's English is comically bad - almost as bad as Boris Christoff trying to sing Nielsen's Saul and David in English on the old Horenstein live recording. But don't let that stop you. It's a great recording of Gerontius overall. What a pity that Barbirolli did not record The Apostles - that would be pure gold. I have Hickox in that piece. Is there a better one?
Nope.
Dave, what do you think of Elgar’s Piano Quintet? I think it’s one of his very greatest works, as well as one of the greatest chamber works of the 20th century.
I don't, but I like it.
"With one exception, the Second Symphony, conductor John Barbirolli's Elgar recordings are classics, one and all"
Good to see some passion!
Couldn't agree with you more Dave about the Elgar Cello Concerto. It's often coupled with the Dvorak Cello Concerto and there is simply no comparison between the two.
I quite agree with you about some texts and libretti.
Some are so ridiculous that one would be better off not understanding anything about the language they are written in.
Glad to hear your opinion of the Cello Concerto. I have always found parts of it to be very ordinary.
Concerning the Cello Concerto, I agree 100% I enjoy much more the Finzi Cello Concerto. It's a shame she never recorded it, especially considering what I saw in the movie about her: sleeping with Finzi's son! Did this really happen?
I'm one who considers the Cello Concerto as Elgar's greatest, most concise, perhaps most deeply felt work. Superior to the violin concerto whose too long last mvt seems to me a miscalculation. The Cello Cto also seems to get programmed most often after the Dvorak along with Shostakovich 1. There's a reason.
The reason is that there are too few cello concertos. The fewer there are the more often they get played, quality be damned.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Partly that, true. But better than Schumann's deary, gray concerto or Tchaikovsky's silly Rococo Variations. I wish the Haydns got programmed more than they do. Or that I actually understood Britten's Cello Symphony, a tough nut. Dvorak, Elgar, Shostakovich, an elite group, though I also love the Walton and the neglected Barber.
@@bbailey7818listen to lake if you haven’t already
Thanks Dave ! It's becoming a catch phrase now! Try as I might, I have trouble really enjoying Elgar, and I can't understand why. I listen, and keep trying, and well, just don't click. The 2nd symphony i find somewhat, ,,,,ok, but find the sound,,,,,over ripe. Ill give sir John's first another listen, see what I'm missing.
Paul
I know where you're coming from. You can only listen and hope it hits you, but I admire you for trying.
Dave, one thing I have realized. I used to way back when thought, wow, you really like a lot of music. But now I realize you have the best quality a critic can have. Give a fair shake an objective review for a performance of a work, that you recognize as important, but are not really a fan of. That is so admirable! We had a local critic, who when Bruckner was performed never gave a good review, even of a great performance, due to her bias. I love Bruckner, which I know you do also, despite what many may think, and it was so off putting.
I keep trying and listening because of sibelius. For a long time he never clicked for me. Then in my 40s, after a few decades of listening he did! And wow! So I always come back to the composers I don't get now and then, just to see if lightening strikes again!
Paul
@@flexusmaximus4701 Thanks for sharing this--and the best thing about it is that lightening does strike again, every so often, and that makes all the time and effort worthwhile.
Thank you! About terrible poetry in song texts - your comments reminded me of an occasion when Dvořák's song cycle 'Cypresses' was to be performed. The Czech pianist pleaded with the English singer not to sing it in Czech so he wouldn't have to hear the text!
The Elgar cello concerto is saved by the brilliant idea to suddenly bring back the beginning of the piece at the very end. It works so well that you forget how dreadful the last movement is.
[Phillip Brookes] Cockaigne should be pronounced 'Cock-ane'. It's a legendary land of milk and honey which, in Medieval times, became associated with London. It's almost certainly the origin of 'Cockney'. It's sometimes spelt Cockayne.
A friend suggested to Elgar that his proposed Cockaigne No. 2, City of Dreadful Night, should be retitled Morphine because it would be soporific. Elgar replied, "Ether will do". (In the end much of it went into the E-flat Symphony.)
How about pronouncing it however you please? It makes no difference.
"Cockaigne No. 2, City of Dreadful Night" sounds like it should be by William Burroughs.
I cannot get on with Elgar's longer compositions. Boring, boring boring. His shorter works are really my cup of tea though. That Dave's favs disc with RVW is just mighty fine.
His second symphony is a wonderful piece.
Outrageously DUMB question, Dave, but... If I already purchased the BIG [Barbirolli] BOX, do I already have these REMASTERED recordings? [i.e., do I need this one, too?]
Yes, you have them. No need to duplicate.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks!
A very fair review. I agree about the Gerontius text. Just horrid. Amazed you don't like the Cello concerto but each to there own. What's the Cockenya overture of which you speak? Just being picky!!.....
Cockaigne is the spelling, it's a nickname for London, I think.
@@simonalbrecht9435 Sort of. Yes. Cockaine. Not Cockenya.
Amen re The Apostles, and also The Kingdom, which Boult thought superior to Gerontius.