I've been playing Pendragon for three years, recently started a new campaign with the new 6e materials. The player who picked Dame Lynelle got some ridiculously good rolls. She cut King Lot's sword in half (got a critical success while he got a fumble-I pulled back the old 5.2e rule for this particular situation), killed King Nym in 511, and killed King Uriens in 512 (not in the adventure in the book; I put an extra battle in the campaign). She knighted Arthur, and she's now married to Arthur's brother and has two kids with him, but she's in love with the famous knight Sir Hervis de Revels. Our Sir Avalloc was a loyal friend to the party, but got himself cut in half vertically when they went to raid the Saxons. Our Sir Evrain seduced a woman with Chaste 21 in the first session, which then led to him being accused of rape by Princess Guinevere. The woman's father then challenged him to a duel of honor, which he accepted and lost horribly, leading to everyone believing the accusation to be true. The next year, he was captured by King Nym, and when Dame Lynelle came to rescue him, he fought unarmored against six knights, taking many injuries, but killing them all before succumbing to his injuries. Our Cadwallon fumbled a Trusting roll when Arthur drew the sword in the stone and developed a Jealousy Obsession for Arthur, refusing to be knighted by him and refusing to join his household knights. Instead, he joined the household of one of Arthur's discontented lords who will cause major problems for Arthur in the Conquest Period. Altogether it's going wonderfully and we're having a blast. This is my third time running Pendragon, and hopefully will be my first time reaching the end of the campaign! Please do review the other two books. Would love to hear your thoughts!
If you want to get a feel for Pendragon: read Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur and then I suggest you check out John Matthews’ “The Great Book of King Arthur: And His Knights of the Round Table” for those stories that Malory left out. There are a couple of Merlin stories and female knights as well as some of Arthur”s quests (can be translated to an adventure for the players).
Great analysis! I have been on the fence about this for a while now. I find the mechanics of opposed attributes fascinating! I believe I will be purchasing it soon.
I want to add Bernard Cornwell’s Warlord Trilogy for a very realistic look at virtues and vices of knights and no magic. There’s also been a recent series but I haven’t seen it.
In terms of the game, I think Pendragon does an amazing job at having characters create great roleplaying characters. There is so much emphasis on your personality traits, your passions, major life events, etc. It makes the game about so much more than just dice rolls to see if you hit an enemy at not. I also love all the management/downtime activities. The game is literally a Medieval life simulator.
Your video on Pirate Borg made me spend money on Kickstarter and I'm eyeing Pendragon since a couple of months. My wallet won't agree with my demand but please: review the Core Rulebook and The Grey Knight.
If I can add a few more sources for people who want to immerse themselves in the legends: 'Merlin'--a TV show based around the characters when they were young, watching them grow into their famous roles. 'The Warlord Chroniclse'--a trilogy of books ('The Winter King', 'Enemy of God', and 'Excalibur') by Bernard Cornwell, which grounds the story in more realistic terms, and has some of the best battles ever written. 'The Idylls of the King' by Alfred, Lord Tennyson--an epic poem that covers the stories and really creates a mythical feel. Enjoy! (And thanks as usual for the video, Dave)
Great work, Dave. Another vote for full rulebook video. I'm very curious how the overall framework has been developed in this last edition. Particularly in terms of generational play. Additionally, another video idea is the Gauntlets The Between, which is having a Backerkit text release now
Love your reviews - properly comprehensive and entertaining at the same time. Which is why, having decided this one’s not for me, I feel like I’ve made an informed choice. Thanks!
On your recommendation I picked up that faux-leather bound copy of "Le Morte D'Arthur" and I am so glad I did. It's a beautiful book and actually not that hard to read despite the archaic language. Reading it has definitely improved my understanding of the sorts of things player-knights might get up to in this setting.
Since you mentioned The Green Knight, A24 actually made a Green Knight rpg that seems to take at least a little inspiration from Pendragon. Might be worth checking out on here sometime
Chaosium's quickstart for Rivers of London also uses a solo choose your own adventure to teach the rules. It really reminds me of the old D&D basic box's solo play intro adventure, which was my intro to ttrpgs. Honestly, I wish more games did this.
More Pendragon! More! 🍻 I can say that I had my best roleplaying experience playing this game (well, not the latest edition), and so I recommend it to everybody, especially if you want a more grounded fantasy experience, as well as more emotionally driven characters.
Thank you very much. It's one my favorite TTRPG, and the one in which I roleplayed the most. Usually I am really bad at roleplay, but Pendragon is different because roleplay is taken care by the rules. For inspiration, maybe that's because I am french, but for me, the most comprehensive Arthurian material is the "vulgate cycle" which was written around 1200. It is far more complete than the Mallory's books. I would say that the Death of Arthur is a summary of the vulgate. Also Mallory removed a lot of religious consideration and I think he was right but even with all the religious stuff, the vulgate is still a great fantasy saga to read.
Lev Grossman's The Bright Sword just came out this summer and is an astonishing new Arthurian novel. Whether or not you liked the Magicians novels (I loved them), if you're interested in Arthurian stories, this is a run-don't-walk recommendation. Very comparable to The Green Knight and one of the best books I've read ever.
I used to run a Pendragon 4th edition game set in Westeros during the time of Dunk and Egg (this was back before there was an official Game of Thrones RPG). It was actually the single longest campaign I ever participated in (both in-game and in real-life).
In terms of shows/inspiration, I'm kinda hopeful about The Pendragon Cycle - coming out late this year or early next. I loved those books as a kid (read in middle school) and the behind-the-scenes about it look solid. Still too early to say - but it could be good. The series starts even before Merlin was born - the first book is about Merlin's parents. Lawhead added a whole Atlantis vibe to the start - which fit surprisingly well.
There is going to be rules for Magicians. A book called Codex Mirabilis is going to be talking about having "Side Character" Magicians, almost player run NPCs with more compressed rules that can do crazy stuff like magic and miracles. The healing rate is murder, so be ready to keep non-player healers around and have the Player Knights ready with replacements or alternatives for their presence in a game. Dont get too attached - best advice from me. I get the Combat gripes, and I might wonder if there is a good hack out there for more streamlined combat. 5e Pendragon had less of it, but I don't know if it is enough.
I agree; great box overall, however, in this day and age, cardstock covers for booklets is preferred. The booklets are a little flimsy compared to ones in other boxed sets I've gotten recently (Free League, etc.).
Great review. I watched the glass canon podcast play it this gencon and had to grab a copy of the core book - it's got a lot of great content. Combat does at times feel like a different game because of its wargaminess - it feels like I'm required to have the combat pages open 24/7 when playing it. It is however, very fun.
Looks like a fun game for the right group, but too complex for my tastes. Thanks for the review! Would be interested in seeing your thoughts on the other Pendragon books, too. Also I didn't realize it was that much delayed. I'm over here waiting for QuestWorlds for a couple years but maybe that's just Chaosium's style.
I would love to hear your further thoughts on the full rules, and even the campaign, as I think this is a special and significant release in TTRPG history.
Sounds like an interesting system I have been missing out on. It really does seem capture the themes of stories of actual knights and of the Arthurian tales. I am interested in hearing how the core rulebook expands on this material.
Very good analysis. I have had 1st edition for many years. Tried to run it once but the gaming group didn't hold together long enough to get the real "campaign" flavor. I will probably purchase the Starter Set you look at here, and the 6e book, and then I have almost the entire collection of 1e scenario campaign books from way back in the day. Three Cheers for Backwards Compatibility!!! Lol
I hope that people get more excited about this game, it seems incredible. Seems being the key word, the released core book is bare bones to put it kindly. Probably my only RPG purchasing regret, it's filled with sections that basically say we will add the rules in another book. Which would be fine if it was a GM Guide, but I think I've counted about 4 different unpublished books that have been referenced in the first 100 pages. Comparing it to Runequest, another core book that was released by the same company, its 150 pages of less content and it shows. Something is wrong if the family history in a Pendragon game feels skimmed over compared to Runequest. The new edition has a tagline that basically says "be the knight that you want". The core book allows you to build a grand total of... 1 culture and 1 region in that culture. I really wanted to like Pendragon 6E but there won't be much to like for years. So buyer beware.
I’m definitely interested in reviews of the other materials you mentioned. For “Appendix N” material, I would recommend Lev Grossman’s recently released “The Bright Sword”. Jo Walton’s Sulien cycle is also excellent (a kind of alternate world retelling of the legends but fitting perfectly with the setting here).
This was super helpful. I've been on the fence about this game. It looked great, but based on the mechanics and what I could see in the box, this saved me some dough. This one is not for me. And that's cool. It may be for someone else and I hope they dig it. I just know I wouldn't, but I never would have known without a deep dive, so thanks. To be fair, I'm probably one of 10 people who thinks the arthurian legend is lame.
I picked up the Pendragon 6e core book when it came out. It's an impressive piece of work that I will never run; the system itself is not supremely difficult but I could not for the life of me figure out how to run a Pendragon from that book alone. Moreover, IMO, that core book did not provide enough tools for the GM. It feels like it has to be paired up with the starter box or with some sort of GM box.
I wonder if the adventure could be adapted to a more action-oriented system that doesn't have you rolling how you think or feel as a character? On the flip side, I wonder if things like passions could be used as compelling character building and motivation tool in other games?
man i love pendragon, honestly it's made me occasionally roll random stats for characters in other games when i don't know exactly how to behave in-character out of what i assune is a subconscious yearning to be forced by the DM to roll a Valorous/Cowardly 16/4 to not go and check on that ill-looking man sat moaning against a tree (he might need help, and he's definitely not a zombie)
I'd love to hear you explore the other books. I am hacking this system for a game set in the Pokémon universe, which already has a lot of work done for it in various RPG systems. I'm just trying to prevent it from becoming a giant wargame experience.
Chaosium have designed some cracking games. BRP could be the no. 1 rpg, if they only worked out how to mass-market themselves.. (and they produced a dedicated Fantasy setting similar to other rpgs with wizards, rangers, paladins etc.)
I LOVE the work they did with the boxed set, but I can't bring myself to buy it. Especially since the6th edition with the new core rule book is essentially incomplete in and of itself. They now want you to buy two books instead of one. So much for 6th being the "definitive" edition of the title. Sorry, Greg.
I really don't think the Legend of the Sword movie would be a good fit for inspiration here. Personally, I find it pretty bad, but that's subjective; what's important is that it has a completely different, non-knightly, tone, and it changes so much about the legend's story that it's no longer recognizable. Instead, I would HIGHLY recommend the old Merlin two-part mini-series, with Sam Neil as the titular character. Good adaptation, great actors, fantastic music; some of the effects did age quite poorly, but others still look really neat, and the other good points of the film really outweigh the bad. And, honestly, I'd throw the Knight's Tale into the mix. It's just charming, and it does have some knightly vibes. If you can put Monty Python on the list, then I can recommend Knight's Tale=\)
I own all the sixth edition stuff published to date but am a bit confused because in the core rulebook it references other supplements such as the "Gamemaster's Handbook". I assume these are books from the earlier edition rather than planned future publications for sixth edition?
Big fan of your videos, but my wallet isn’t lmao. I was wondering if you had any intention of covering the newest edition of Paranoia? I can’t find many videos on the topic
Actually Pendragon doesn't depict 6th century Britain and Britanny, but an epitomized assumption of what an idealized knighthood should look like from a late medieval poets perspective. 6th century didn't even have knights at all. Tournaments, Platemail, heraldry, falconry, curtly love had not been invented yet, and the core books explicitly state that. Pendragon is Renaissance knighthood projected onto dark ages Britain, it is as stated above kind of a Malory hack... A more medieval fantasy Arthurian setting may be Mythic Britain, and it can be easily adapted to Pendragon. I love Pendragon very much, it was my 2nd rpg I ever played in the early 90s. But players should always have in mind that it is a literacy adaption. Much in the game is a severe anachronism, some things become a thing centuries, almost a millennium later. This doesn't matter, it's is a really great game as is. It's just not about 6th century Britain, mythic Britain for Mythras isn't either though ;) both are fantasy rpgs...
The adventure seems like a real railroad-fest, but an entertaining one! By the way, I think you may have edited out "Merlin", the mini series. I heard a "Muh", and a quick cut to "Camelot". Merlin is awesome!
From what I read online the core book is more of a player guide without gm tools. I wanted to ask if anyone knows if the core book atleast contains everything from the box set (rules wise)
Surprised you didn't mention Merlin as a TV source. Probably not the most accurate but was definitely of great interest to me. That said the actual Pendragon game probably isn't. Far to grounded in real medieval history, not enough fantasy for my tastes.
I totally had it in the video but I used footage from the show and was told to cut it from the video or have the whole thing demonetized. And I didn't have enough time to delist, re-edit and repost. So yeah.
@@DaveThaumavore I thought I heard a snippet of the name Merlin right before it cuts to the next reference. Yeah totally understand why you had to remove it, though hate that you had to remove it to begin with. Surely lists like the one you included would drive interest in old TV media. :( :( Great video overall though.
"Knights are not supposed to use bows and crossbows" would be a great rule, if there wasn't a pregen character (Dame Damura), that specialises on Bows and described as "Pick this character if you wish to play a knight adept with bow and arrow". Imagine player's face, when he picks Damura and can't even play her, cause her specialisation dishonores him.
She'll excel as a Hunter Knight, where they can use bows and quest for special animals on hunts for glory. Not sure if that distinction is covered in the Starter Set but the scenarios give opportunity for her to get glory this way. In knightly combat she'll have to rely on the knightly arms.
@@pnptcn For the purpose of gaining glory from hunting you have a skil - "Hunting". Which is 10 for Damura. Bow is a combat skill and she has 15 ranks in it. So it doesn't work this way. She is primarily bowman and only then not a bad hunter.
@@sonder_ua The Hunting roll is to find and run your quarry down. Once you find the quarry you have to engage it with some kind of weapon to bring it down. I suppose you can skip this part if you find the combat system too wargamey and resolve the hunt in a single roll if you like.
You are not supposed to use Ranged Weapons against knights. Saxons, Picts and suchlike can be shot with a bow, but it is not as Glorious (You get a 10th of the Glory) and monsters can be hunted and defeated - Hunting is usually used to track things, so she is amazing hitting stags once it's found.
@@pnptcn Didnt see such rules in starter. Hunting described as - To find the results of a common hunt, simply roll Hunting against the quarry’s Avoidance value. Alternatively there is Falconry. Since there are two of these skills, it is very strange to force player roll another Bow check. Two checks on a single hunt task is smth strange.
The Pendragon Starter Set is the most railroaded TTRPG I have ever played. • Rules scattered among ALL booklets and books. There are rules, that are ONLY explained in solo-adventure. So you MUST play it to get them. • Combat is so complex and has so many options, but you will literally just hit your opponent. And btw, you are allowed to fight ONLY 1vs1. Cause fighting 2 knights against 1 knight is dishonor. And when you fight against archers - you either just suffer damage, or run away (I understand the realism, but not the game idea here). • Combat event cards are strange af. If your leader fails the Strategy roll, you will miss the special interesting encounters and events. And btw, every battle in this starter is scripted. You fight JUST for glory, you have no option to influence the outcome of the battle. You either participate or skip it - that's the whole point of battles. • Adventures start pretty good, but god damn, the railroad takes it all from you. One time the game gives you two options - to reject the bandit's offer or to accept it and attack some caravans. You know what? If you choose to raid, you will lose the scenario and fail your main mission. And not because you did something dishonest. Hell no. You fail because it takes WAY TOO MUCH TIME to get treasures and split them. The most stupid nonsense I have ever read. Don't get me wrong. I understand that this is not even close to my culture. I really wanted to get to know the Arthurian legends, theme and the whole idea. But the game looks like you just recreating some events and not even taking the main part in them. You are just a viewer, visitor, or guest, but never the main hero. From the designer's perspective, authors don't even try to teach you to run Pendragon. They tell you that you have one right option, while others are not even considered.
That... in the starter set, that is kinda true. But the dice can carry you forward in the battles. I had players become big damn heroes. The scripts of the battle only keeping them down once in a while. Having the script win will often draw the players into the middle of the fight. I think you *kinda* missed some of the points about the archers. The Starter Set never gets around to describe it, but the full Great Pendragon Campaign is supposed to have a discussion of the variables to either keep players in their own level or have thrust direct into the big events where they can replace the canon characters... except Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot. The Adventures are written by people who wrote adventures in the 80ies, I personally change a lot when I run this game.
@@Growls I understand that battles are all about a chance to get famous. But for players, it's like an XP-grinding mechanic. Either do it or skip it if you want to play this character tomorrow. So this is the first turn event on the second day of The Battle of Bedegraine. Archery exchange. If the Player‑knights are part of this Event (i.e., if the Intensity roll is a success), select the Archers encounter automatically, but with no chance to engage the enemy. (The conroi commander’s Battle roll determines how many rounds of arrow barrage the knights must endure, regardless of chosen posture, as detailed under “Encountering Missile Weapons” in the Battle rules." You just suffer attacks. Imagine your hero can die cause you get this stuff in the first turn of battle. These moments of Pendragon I can't understand. They are much beyond my mind.
I mean it's a game that kind of expects you to be bought into what it's doing. A lot of your character's major decisions will be guided by die rolls, but then people being guided by their virtues and vices are very much a part of the genre. I do think Pendragon is not really a good way to get into it from an outside perspective, and the starter set is more about getting you into playing the game more than introducing you to Arthurian type fantasy.
I love this system and I also enjoy the video but I do need to pick you up when you keep mentioning 6th Century Feudal Britain. The setting is fantasy and has very little to do with history. The weaponry and social values are based on the 14th Century and then transposed nearly 800 years into the past. In 6th Century Britain very little of this existed. Rome had departed and the Saxons were taking over. Things like jousting are still centuries away.
I like Guy Ritchie's work, but man I couldn't stand his King Arthur work. Just like I wasn't a fan of 2004's King Arthur either. The Green Knight on the other hand was excellent. Also for a book recommendation to add to Sir Thomas Malory and T.H. White, I'd suggest Mary Stewart's Quintet of books covering the Arthurian legend which starts with "The Crystal Cave". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Cave Anyhow, great review of the starter set. I've been on the fence with this release. I kinda feel like they're not sure where they want to go with it and it feels uneven. :( Definitely would be interested in having you do reviews of the other material.
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I LOVED the comment you did about the mental stability of the knights. Yeah, I think Greg Staffors really aimed to simulate the Arthurian tales.
"Player knights in this game are extremely mood, unstable, almost ridiculously melodramatic creatures." Sounds like Le Morte D'Arthur!
I've been playing Pendragon for three years, recently started a new campaign with the new 6e materials. The player who picked Dame Lynelle got some ridiculously good rolls. She cut King Lot's sword in half (got a critical success while he got a fumble-I pulled back the old 5.2e rule for this particular situation), killed King Nym in 511, and killed King Uriens in 512 (not in the adventure in the book; I put an extra battle in the campaign). She knighted Arthur, and she's now married to Arthur's brother and has two kids with him, but she's in love with the famous knight Sir Hervis de Revels.
Our Sir Avalloc was a loyal friend to the party, but got himself cut in half vertically when they went to raid the Saxons. Our Sir Evrain seduced a woman with Chaste 21 in the first session, which then led to him being accused of rape by Princess Guinevere. The woman's father then challenged him to a duel of honor, which he accepted and lost horribly, leading to everyone believing the accusation to be true. The next year, he was captured by King Nym, and when Dame Lynelle came to rescue him, he fought unarmored against six knights, taking many injuries, but killing them all before succumbing to his injuries. Our Cadwallon fumbled a Trusting roll when Arthur drew the sword in the stone and developed a Jealousy Obsession for Arthur, refusing to be knighted by him and refusing to join his household knights. Instead, he joined the household of one of Arthur's discontented lords who will cause major problems for Arthur in the Conquest Period.
Altogether it's going wonderfully and we're having a blast. This is my third time running Pendragon, and hopefully will be my first time reaching the end of the campaign!
Please do review the other two books. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Sad to hear Stafford passed. Pendragon was actually the first rpg that I ever played and that's how I fell in love with roleplaying games.
If you want to get a feel for Pendragon: read Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur and then I suggest you check out John Matthews’
“The Great Book of King Arthur: And His Knights of the Round Table” for those stories that Malory left out. There are a couple of Merlin stories and female knights as well as some of Arthur”s quests (can be translated to an adventure for the players).
Great job! Learning about the Arthurian world and culture is part of the fun. Please cover more Pendragon.
Bring me all the Pendragon you have.
Great analysis! I have been on the fence about this for a while now. I find the mechanics of opposed attributes fascinating! I believe I will be purchasing it soon.
I want to add Bernard Cornwell’s Warlord Trilogy for a very realistic look at virtues and vices of knights and no magic. There’s also been a recent series but I haven’t seen it.
In terms of the game, I think Pendragon does an amazing job at having characters create great roleplaying characters. There is so much emphasis on your personality traits, your passions, major life events, etc. It makes the game about so much more than just dice rolls to see if you hit an enemy at not. I also love all the management/downtime activities. The game is literally a Medieval life simulator.
Would be great of more reviews of the new Pendragon book
Basic Role-Playing Game system. My fave 💓
BRP/D100 really is one of, if not the best realized game mechanics out there.
Your video on Pirate Borg made me spend money on Kickstarter and I'm eyeing Pendragon since a couple of months. My wallet won't agree with my demand but please: review the Core Rulebook and The Grey Knight.
If I can add a few more sources for people who want to immerse themselves in the legends:
'Merlin'--a TV show based around the characters when they were young, watching them grow into their famous roles.
'The Warlord Chroniclse'--a trilogy of books ('The Winter King', 'Enemy of God', and 'Excalibur') by Bernard Cornwell, which grounds the story in more realistic terms, and has some of the best battles ever written.
'The Idylls of the King' by Alfred, Lord Tennyson--an epic poem that covers the stories and really creates a mythical feel.
Enjoy!
(And thanks as usual for the video, Dave)
Great work, Dave. Another vote for full rulebook video. I'm very curious how the overall framework has been developed in this last edition. Particularly in terms of generational play. Additionally, another video idea is the Gauntlets The Between, which is having a Backerkit text release now
Love your reviews - properly comprehensive and entertaining at the same time. Which is why, having decided this one’s not for me, I feel like I’ve made an informed choice. Thanks!
On your recommendation I picked up that faux-leather bound copy of "Le Morte D'Arthur" and I am so glad I did. It's a beautiful book and actually not that hard to read despite the archaic language. Reading it has definitely improved my understanding of the sorts of things player-knights might get up to in this setting.
Since you mentioned The Green Knight, A24 actually made a Green Knight rpg that seems to take at least a little inspiration from Pendragon. Might be worth checking out on here sometime
Yeah, good point. I'll look into the game a bit more.
It would be great to hear your review on the Core Book and Grey Knight!
Chaosium's quickstart for Rivers of London also uses a solo choose your own adventure to teach the rules. It really reminds me of the old D&D basic box's solo play intro adventure, which was my intro to ttrpgs. Honestly, I wish more games did this.
I’d love more Pendragon videos!!
More Pendragon! More! 🍻
I can say that I had my best roleplaying experience playing this game (well, not the latest edition), and so I recommend it to everybody, especially if you want a more grounded fantasy experience, as well as more emotionally driven characters.
Thank you very much. It's one my favorite TTRPG, and the one in which I roleplayed the most. Usually I am really bad at roleplay, but Pendragon is different because roleplay is taken care by the rules.
For inspiration, maybe that's because I am french, but for me, the most comprehensive Arthurian material is the "vulgate cycle" which was written around 1200. It is far more complete than the Mallory's books. I would say that the Death of Arthur is a summary of the vulgate. Also Mallory removed a lot of religious consideration and I think he was right but even with all the religious stuff, the vulgate is still a great fantasy saga to read.
Please review the other Pendragon books as well. Great video!
Lev Grossman's The Bright Sword just came out this summer and is an astonishing new Arthurian novel. Whether or not you liked the Magicians novels (I loved them), if you're interested in Arthurian stories, this is a run-don't-walk recommendation. Very comparable to The Green Knight and one of the best books I've read ever.
Great recommendation. Thanks!
I used to run a Pendragon 4th edition game set in Westeros during the time of Dunk and Egg (this was back before there was an official Game of Thrones RPG). It was actually the single longest campaign I ever participated in (both in-game and in real-life).
In terms of shows/inspiration, I'm kinda hopeful about The Pendragon Cycle - coming out late this year or early next. I loved those books as a kid (read in middle school) and the behind-the-scenes about it look solid. Still too early to say - but it could be good.
The series starts even before Merlin was born - the first book is about Merlin's parents. Lawhead added a whole Atlantis vibe to the start - which fit surprisingly well.
I remember watching a few actual plays and solo plays from Paoer Dice Games... for some reasons I thought the game had been abandonned xD
@@YannMiollan I can see how you might have come to that conclusion.
You reviews are great. This starter set picked my interest. Thanks!
yes please on further reviews for the other books
There is going to be rules for Magicians. A book called Codex Mirabilis is going to be talking about having "Side Character" Magicians, almost player run NPCs with more compressed rules that can do crazy stuff like magic and miracles.
The healing rate is murder, so be ready to keep non-player healers around and have the Player Knights ready with replacements or alternatives for their presence in a game.
Dont get too attached - best advice from me.
I get the Combat gripes, and I might wonder if there is a good hack out there for more streamlined combat.
5e Pendragon had less of it, but I don't know if it is enough.
I'd love to hear and see more about this
I agree; great box overall, however, in this day and age, cardstock covers for booklets is preferred. The booklets are a little flimsy compared to ones in other boxed sets I've gotten recently (Free League, etc.).
This is such a great channel. Well done, Sir!
Great review.
I watched the glass canon podcast play it this gencon and had to grab a copy of the core book - it's got a lot of great content.
Combat does at times feel like a different game because of its wargaminess - it feels like I'm required to have the combat pages open 24/7 when playing it.
It is however, very fun.
Would love to see you do follow-up videos for the other books Chaosium sent you.
Since I love Legend of the Five Rings, I have no doubt I will LOVE this.
Looks like a fun game for the right group, but too complex for my tastes. Thanks for the review! Would be interested in seeing your thoughts on the other Pendragon books, too.
Also I didn't realize it was that much delayed. I'm over here waiting for QuestWorlds for a couple years but maybe that's just Chaosium's style.
I would love to hear your further thoughts on the full rules, and even the campaign, as I think this is a special and significant release in TTRPG history.
Sounds like an interesting system I have been missing out on. It really does seem capture the themes of stories of actual knights and of the Arthurian tales. I am interested in hearing how the core rulebook expands on this material.
Very good analysis. I have had 1st edition for many years. Tried to run it once but the gaming group didn't hold together long enough to get the real "campaign" flavor. I will probably purchase the Starter Set you look at here, and the 6e book, and then I have almost the entire collection of 1e scenario campaign books from way back in the day. Three Cheers for Backwards Compatibility!!! Lol
I would drop everything to play an Italian romance epic setting of this game
That'd be cool.
While it's not exactly that, maybe you'd like Brancalonia
Not quite the same thing, but there is a game called Paladin about the legends of Charlemange that uses the same system.
@@ajdynon thanks, now to find it
Lets see whats next!
I hope that people get more excited about this game, it seems incredible. Seems being the key word, the released core book is bare bones to put it kindly. Probably my only RPG purchasing regret, it's filled with sections that basically say we will add the rules in another book. Which would be fine if it was a GM Guide, but I think I've counted about 4 different unpublished books that have been referenced in the first 100 pages. Comparing it to Runequest, another core book that was released by the same company, its 150 pages of less content and it shows. Something is wrong if the family history in a Pendragon game feels skimmed over compared to Runequest. The new edition has a tagline that basically says "be the knight that you want". The core book allows you to build a grand total of... 1 culture and 1 region in that culture. I really wanted to like Pendragon 6E but there won't be much to like for years.
So buyer beware.
Interested in The Grey Knight
I’m definitely interested in reviews of the other materials you mentioned.
For “Appendix N” material, I would recommend Lev Grossman’s recently released “The Bright Sword”. Jo Walton’s Sulien cycle is also excellent (a kind of alternate world retelling of the legends but fitting perfectly with the setting here).
Loved it! Thanks for the review Dave! Looking forward to watching the review of the rulebook and the Green Knight campaign.
This was super helpful. I've been on the fence about this game. It looked great, but based on the mechanics and what I could see in the box, this saved me some dough. This one is not for me. And that's cool. It may be for someone else and I hope they dig it. I just know I wouldn't, but I never would have known without a deep dive, so thanks. To be fair, I'm probably one of 10 people who thinks the arthurian legend is lame.
I noticed you were going to mention the TV show Merlin then thought better of it. Good move.
I picked up the Pendragon 6e core book when it came out. It's an impressive piece of work that I will never run; the system itself is not supremely difficult but I could not for the life of me figure out how to run a Pendragon from that book alone. Moreover, IMO, that core book did not provide enough tools for the GM. It feels like it has to be paired up with the starter box or with some sort of GM box.
Very complete review, great job !
I wonder if the adventure could be adapted to a more action-oriented system that doesn't have you rolling how you think or feel as a character? On the flip side, I wonder if things like passions could be used as compelling character building and motivation tool in other games?
man i love pendragon, honestly it's made me occasionally roll random stats for characters in other games when i don't know exactly how to behave in-character out of what i assune is a subconscious yearning to be forced by the DM to roll a Valorous/Cowardly 16/4 to not go and check on that ill-looking man sat moaning against a tree (he might need help, and he's definitely not a zombie)
I'd love to hear you explore the other books. I am hacking this system for a game set in the Pokémon universe, which already has a lot of work done for it in various RPG systems. I'm just trying to prevent it from becoming a giant wargame experience.
Yes please, more Pendragon. ❤️🎉
So on point. I had the original game and was anticipating the new version, but was mixed feelings about the product.
More Pendragon please!
Please review the gray knight!
Chaosium have designed some cracking games. BRP could be the no. 1 rpg, if they only worked out how to mass-market themselves.. (and they produced a dedicated Fantasy setting similar to other rpgs with wizards, rangers, paladins etc.)
Cthulhu Dark Ages could be used as a basis for a fantasy setting. Runequest Vikings and Land of Ninja have great ptential too.
Wonderful overview!
These discord blips will ALWAYS catch me off-guard.....
That Discord ping though.
I started wearing a hat all the time when I went bald. Head too cold 😂 flat cap is my hat of choice ✌🏼
Hey! What about the Sean Connery vehicle First Knight? Mary Stewart's Crystal Cave books. The Mists of Avalon. Etc etc etc
Sure! List all your favorites!
I LOVE the work they did with the boxed set, but I can't bring myself to buy it. Especially since the6th edition with the new core rule book is essentially incomplete in and of itself. They now want you to buy two books instead of one. So much for 6th being the "definitive" edition of the title. Sorry, Greg.
I really don't think the Legend of the Sword movie would be a good fit for inspiration here. Personally, I find it pretty bad, but that's subjective; what's important is that it has a completely different, non-knightly, tone, and it changes so much about the legend's story that it's no longer recognizable.
Instead, I would HIGHLY recommend the old Merlin two-part mini-series, with Sam Neil as the titular character. Good adaptation, great actors, fantastic music; some of the effects did age quite poorly, but others still look really neat, and the other good points of the film really outweigh the bad.
And, honestly, I'd throw the Knight's Tale into the mix. It's just charming, and it does have some knightly vibes. If you can put Monty Python on the list, then I can recommend Knight's Tale=\)
I own all the sixth edition stuff published to date but am a bit confused because in the core rulebook it references other supplements such as the "Gamemaster's Handbook". I assume these are books from the earlier edition rather than planned future publications for sixth edition?
@@jona826 yeah I was confused too.
Big fan of your videos, but my wallet isn’t lmao. I was wondering if you had any intention of covering the newest edition of Paranoia? I can’t find many videos on the topic
I backed it on Kickstarter and I have it. But I'm not sure yet. I kind of want to play it first.
kinda reminds me of L5R but with knights. at least from a thematic point of view.
Actually Pendragon doesn't depict 6th century Britain and Britanny, but an epitomized assumption of what an idealized knighthood should look like from a late medieval poets perspective. 6th century didn't even have knights at all. Tournaments, Platemail, heraldry, falconry, curtly love had not been invented yet, and the core books explicitly state that. Pendragon is Renaissance knighthood projected onto dark ages Britain, it is as stated above kind of a Malory hack... A more medieval fantasy Arthurian setting may be Mythic Britain, and it can be easily adapted to Pendragon. I love Pendragon very much, it was my 2nd rpg I ever played in the early 90s. But players should always have in mind that it is a literacy adaption. Much in the game is a severe anachronism, some things become a thing centuries, almost a millennium later. This doesn't matter, it's is a really great game as is. It's just not about 6th century Britain, mythic Britain for Mythras isn't either though ;) both are fantasy rpgs...
The adventure seems like a real railroad-fest, but an entertaining one!
By the way, I think you may have edited out "Merlin", the mini series. I heard a "Muh", and a quick cut to "Camelot". Merlin is awesome!
@@arheru I had to cut the whole section on Merlin for copyright reasons. Kinda frustrating.
@@DaveThaumavore Whaat? That sucks! Anyway, love your coverage (and Merlin ^^)!
@@Growls footage of the BBC show called “Merlin.”
From what I read online the core book is more of a player guide without gm tools. I wanted to ask if anyone knows if the core book atleast contains everything from the box set (rules wise)
The core rulebook is way more comprehensive. I'd say the starter set presents maybe 20% of the full game.
Please can you review GODS ? The RPG from Bastien Lecouffe Deharme and Julien Blondel?
Love the game. Also, the kingdom's name is "Logres" and not "Loggers" (it is pronounced like "Low" and "Gress" which rhymes with "dress")
Any plans to showcase more indie TTRPGs?
You've uh, seen his backlog of videos, right?
yes.
Surprised you didn't mention Merlin as a TV source. Probably not the most accurate but was definitely of great interest to me. That said the actual Pendragon game probably isn't. Far to grounded in real medieval history, not enough fantasy for my tastes.
I totally had it in the video but I used footage from the show and was told to cut it from the video or have the whole thing demonetized. And I didn't have enough time to delist, re-edit and repost. So yeah.
@@DaveThaumavore I thought I heard a snippet of the name Merlin right before it cuts to the next reference. Yeah totally understand why you had to remove it, though hate that you had to remove it to begin with. Surely lists like the one you included would drive interest in old TV media. :( :(
Great video overall though.
"Knights are not supposed to use bows and crossbows" would be a great rule, if there wasn't a pregen character (Dame Damura), that specialises on Bows and described as "Pick this character if you wish to play a knight adept with bow and arrow".
Imagine player's face, when he picks Damura and can't even play her, cause her specialisation dishonores him.
She'll excel as a Hunter Knight, where they can use bows and quest for special animals on hunts for glory. Not sure if that distinction is covered in the Starter Set but the scenarios give opportunity for her to get glory this way. In knightly combat she'll have to rely on the knightly arms.
@@pnptcn For the purpose of gaining glory from hunting you have a skil - "Hunting". Which is 10 for Damura.
Bow is a combat skill and she has 15 ranks in it. So it doesn't work this way. She is primarily bowman and only then not a bad hunter.
@@sonder_ua The Hunting roll is to find and run your quarry down. Once you find the quarry you have to engage it with some kind of weapon to bring it down. I suppose you can skip this part if you find the combat system too wargamey and resolve the hunt in a single roll if you like.
You are not supposed to use Ranged Weapons against knights. Saxons, Picts and suchlike can be shot with a bow, but it is not as Glorious (You get a 10th of the Glory) and monsters can be hunted and defeated - Hunting is usually used to track things, so she is amazing hitting stags once it's found.
@@pnptcn Didnt see such rules in starter. Hunting described as - To find the results of a common hunt, simply roll Hunting against the quarry’s Avoidance value. Alternatively there is Falconry.
Since there are two of these skills, it is very strange to force player roll another Bow check. Two checks on a single hunt task is smth strange.
Cool
I hope someone translates this in german!
The Pendragon Starter Set is the most railroaded TTRPG I have ever played.
• Rules scattered among ALL booklets and books. There are rules, that are ONLY explained in solo-adventure. So you MUST play it to get them.
• Combat is so complex and has so many options, but you will literally just hit your opponent. And btw, you are allowed to fight ONLY 1vs1. Cause fighting 2 knights against 1 knight is dishonor. And when you fight against archers - you either just suffer damage, or run away (I understand the realism, but not the game idea here).
• Combat event cards are strange af. If your leader fails the Strategy roll, you will miss the special interesting encounters and events. And btw, every battle in this starter is scripted. You fight JUST for glory, you have no option to influence the outcome of the battle. You either participate or skip it - that's the whole point of battles.
• Adventures start pretty good, but god damn, the railroad takes it all from you. One time the game gives you two options - to reject the bandit's offer or to accept it and attack some caravans. You know what? If you choose to raid, you will lose the scenario and fail your main mission. And not because you did something dishonest. Hell no. You fail because it takes WAY TOO MUCH TIME to get treasures and split them. The most stupid nonsense I have ever read.
Don't get me wrong. I understand that this is not even close to my culture. I really wanted to get to know the Arthurian legends, theme and the whole idea. But the game looks like you just recreating some events and not even taking the main part in them. You are just a viewer, visitor, or guest, but never the main hero. From the designer's perspective, authors don't even try to teach you to run Pendragon. They tell you that you have one right option, while others are not even considered.
That... in the starter set, that is kinda true. But the dice can carry you forward in the battles. I had players become big damn heroes. The scripts of the battle only keeping them down once in a while. Having the script win will often draw the players into the middle of the fight.
I think you *kinda* missed some of the points about the archers.
The Starter Set never gets around to describe it, but the full Great Pendragon Campaign is supposed to have a discussion of the variables to either keep players in their own level or have thrust direct into the big events where they can replace the canon characters... except Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot.
The Adventures are written by people who wrote adventures in the 80ies, I personally change a lot when I run this game.
@@Growls I understand that battles are all about a chance to get famous. But for players, it's like an XP-grinding mechanic. Either do it or skip it if you want to play this character tomorrow.
So this is the first turn event on the second day of The Battle of Bedegraine.
Archery exchange. If the Player‑knights are part of this Event (i.e., if the Intensity roll is a success), select the Archers encounter automatically, but with no chance to engage the enemy. (The conroi commander’s Battle roll determines how many rounds of arrow barrage the knights must endure, regardless of chosen posture, as detailed under “Encountering Missile Weapons” in the Battle rules."
You just suffer attacks. Imagine your hero can die cause you get this stuff in the first turn of battle.
These moments of Pendragon I can't understand. They are much beyond my mind.
I mean it's a game that kind of expects you to be bought into what it's doing. A lot of your character's major decisions will be guided by die rolls, but then people being guided by their virtues and vices are very much a part of the genre. I do think Pendragon is not really a good way to get into it from an outside perspective, and the starter set is more about getting you into playing the game more than introducing you to Arthurian type fantasy.
This video has made up my mind! I can't wait for payday!!!!😊 OUTSTANDING presentation my friend 👍
But is there a holy hand grenade of antioq
Lol: "just because some watery tart tosses you a sword...".
I love this system and I also enjoy the video but I do need to pick you up when you keep mentioning 6th Century Feudal Britain. The setting is fantasy and has very little to do with history. The weaponry and social values are based on the 14th Century and then transposed nearly 800 years into the past. In 6th Century Britain very little of this existed. Rome had departed and the Saxons were taking over. Things like jousting are still centuries away.
Completely backwards assessment. The combat system is interesting. The traits and passions are ridiculous and strip player agency.
I like Guy Ritchie's work, but man I couldn't stand his King Arthur work. Just like I wasn't a fan of 2004's King Arthur either. The Green Knight on the other hand was excellent. Also for a book recommendation to add to Sir Thomas Malory and T.H. White, I'd suggest Mary Stewart's Quintet of books covering the Arthurian legend which starts with "The Crystal Cave". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Cave
Anyhow, great review of the starter set. I've been on the fence with this release. I kinda feel like they're not sure where they want to go with it and it feels uneven. :( Definitely would be interested in having you do reviews of the other material.