you have to drive quite a bit for the gas savings to break even with depreciation / eventual battery replacement / initial premium. most people dont drive enough to justify the inconvenience, let alone the negligible savings. I don't think EVs are worthwhile unless you are saving at least 200 dollars a month from gas. If you have to worry about 100 bucks a month of necessary spending, you probably shouldnt be buying a new car to begin with.
Battery swaps solve all these issues. You can charge an NIO and own the battery 🔋... no problem.. just like a Tesla. BUT you have the "choice" to swap the batter. Longer range when needed and access to better future battery tech.
Bro you bought TWO gas cars?You can easily keep your EV, charge at home only, use it for short distances only, and use the gas car for long distances. Your complaints are so disingenuous. Also buying a gas guzzler AND complaining about gas prices in the same video. Come on man.
@@ForagerTaxignore depreciation and drive it for 20 years. The saving will be off the chart in most states. (sadly, probably not yours. CA electric rates are obscene)
I watched so many YT vids that made it look way less inconvenient. So many road trips, I even did a 1000 mile road trip - and it was very stressful. Bu I take full responsibility and the $10k loss that came with it.
@@ForagerTax I would make the argurment charging at home works for 90%. I worked for several huge companies in SoCal (LA), most of mine and my coworkers' daily commute were about 30~40 miles one way (1 hr to 1 and half hr). If you regularly do 1000+ trips, then EV wouldnt work. I am wondering why you thought EV would work in your case?
The bottomline is if you can't charge at home, don't buy an EV. I'm paying about .05c a KWH when I charge at super off peak which lowed my fuel bill from $225 a month for gasoline down to $27 a month for electricity. Those charging stations are charging as high as $1.12 (more generally .50-.60) KWH thats significantly more than price of gasoline; add to that the higher price of the car itself, it makes no sense to buy an EV if you can't charge at home.
If I were to buy an EV, it would be an inexpensive 4-year-old EV that I would charge at home and use in the city. I'll wait for my ICE car to die first.
Great time to buy a used EV now with such high depreciation, huge bargains to be had! Most people don’t drive long distances so the charging is not an issue for 90.%
46,500 - 7,500 =39,000. selling for 30k means about 25% depreciation for 2 years. Not great, but it's ID4 and very much in line with all premium cars. This fellow intentionally making depreciation sound worse than it actually was.
@@Custo911 for me depreciation was my friend, I got a car that retailed for $40k for $15k with 10k miles on it and honestly if the value goes to $0 I don't care as I got a nearly new car that I like and will keep for many years. The running costs save me on average $7k a year vs my ICE car so it's a no brainer!
@craigroberts3732 everyone has different situations. You must drive a lot too to be able to save this much as well. However, my point was that this fellow... A *tax professional*!!!! Intentionally misrepresented depreciation numbers. Granted he obviously had a very bad experience with his car, but that is not an excuse for a tax professional to play with numbers and make it a main point of a video. Depending on which state he lives in, he also could have received an additional rebate from the state making the depreciation even less...
According to a Bloomberg report, the top 20% of American households, with an average income of around $265,000, account for approximately 65% of new car purchases, indicating that a significant majority of new cars are bought by high-income earners.
I bought first one EV (A Chinese one) and a year after, a second one (also Chinese). And I'm very happy with my EVs. Can't imagine getting back to an ICE car. But, now I'm upset about this: Electricity: U$ 1.00 Tolls: U$ 3.00
Nothing against EVs. Four people I know own them - 3 Tesla and a BMW. All except one charge their EV at home, live in cities, and drive short distances. They love their EV and swear they'll never go back to ICE cars. So you're right, EVs can be great if your driving environment fits what EVs are designed for. Anecdote: I recently rented a car in Vegas and spent two weeks driving in Nevada, Arizona, and Utah. Outside of Vegas, I ran into probably less than 20 EVs. This is easy to understand because an average EV (e.g. Model 3/Y) would need to stop after 3 hours of driving at 75 mph and spend 30 minutes charging, not including any detour one might need to find a charger. Whereas in my home town Vancouver Canada, I'd typically see 20-30 EVs in 5 minutes or less. Used Model 3/Y retain their resale value very well because they're popular vehicles. So the bottom line is EVs are great but they're definitely not suitable for everyone...yet.
You are correct, in some areas, especially rural it's quite difficult. In California, they are phasing out the sale of ICE cars by 2035 which assumes EVs can be widely adopted by the masses - which is simply not the case - and least not in the foreseeable future.
@@UrbanGuitarLegend Yes, it sounds like a good idea but probably very hard to implement. The only way I can see that work is if batteries become generic like gasoline. Then any EV can go to a swap station for service regardless of brand and even the model. This means all the manufacturers will have to agree to make battery technology universal.
@signpost5596 I'm glad you brought that up. NIO, CATL and BYD are working to standardize batteries. NIO has been signing up partners to us their swap network.
@@UrbanGuitarLegend Didn't know that so thanks for the info. If someday swapping a car battery is like replacing the AA cell in a flashlight then EV will be mainstream. IMHO it would be great if there's a choice to just buy the car and swap in different size/range battery pack (modular and pay per use) according to one's needs. If I'm not mistaken Vinfast has similar marketing scheme?
I hate the resell value, hate the quality on my tesla after 200k km and 4yrs. Never have the issue on charging cuz i charge from home mostly. Love the energy part as EV.
It sounds like you bought an ev in the worst possible way. I really don’t know why you would buy a new id4 over a used model y if you were concerned about resale/charging network -you burned tens of thousands of dollars for no reason and ended up having to deal the worst charging network around. If you don’t have home charging ev makes almost zero sense. Not surprised you aren’t happy
If I recall correctly, the $7500 tax credit at the time was for new, and there was 3 years of free charging through Electrify America included. But even free charging wasn't worth it. By the way, there were a couple times that I remember the Tesla stations were full with a wait. Maybe that's rare and maybe you're right, that I did EV wrong. But even then, for EV to supplant ICE and scale, it needs to be easily adopted by the masses.
I figured the resale would suck but wanted to experience an ev, so I leased a Kona ultimate love it.I home charge it and it costs me $2.50 a week to charge it. I also kept my 2017 Honda Civic as my wife was the main driver and it only had 40,000 kms on it. The lease is under the warranty so no battery woes and no resale hassle.Just give it back. Glad I didn't buy but sorry about your woes.
well to me it seems that you just didn't think through your ev purchase (you're not alone to be fair). when buying an ev I wouldn't think even for a second about charging somewhere else than at home- too expensive, too long, too unreliable and so called fast charging ruins your battery. for someone who gets back home every night charging isn't an issue at all.
Agreed on slower charging at home, but when I'd be out all days of meetings (and in traffic) I had to charge publicly. Same as when I did a road trip. I've toured so many Targets and Walmarts while my car charged.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your VW. Having to depend on public charging without access to the Tesla network sucks; counter that though if you have home charging and access to superchargers then EV's rock.
@@ForagerTax I test drove one VW, just a ICE body with EV motor > bad. I'm from AUS, our petrol is heavily taxed. 30c/1AUD is gov tax. Electricity from my solar tax-free
So EVs are not good for YOU because you can't charge at home/work and bad infrastructure in YOUR location ... but your title is for EVERYONE to not buy an EV ? When I bought my first EV 7 years ago, my first question was "how will I charge it" and my answer was "at home" (like 65.6% of people living in the USA it would seem from the first result in google). Relying on public infrastructure is a risk. And I am still using the normal 230V outlet (I'm in France) for now 2 EVs.
"Countless hours charging at public chargers" I think firstly you bought the wrong car and secondly you are going about it all wrong. Charge at home, no issues
I have to drive to neighboring counties for work, add SoCal traffic and a full charge at home isn't enough. Also, I took a 1000 mile road trip. Exclusively charging at home is not realistic for most people.
@ForagerTax disagree, charging at home is extremely realistic for 90 of people. Most evs can do 400km easily at 80soc, no one does 200km to work one way. For road trips if you have issues with chargers, it's fair enough and it does happen. But a bit of planning goes a long way. And of course the governments need to step up massively in a lot of countries to provide better infrastructure
i love my ev , i only charge at home so no one to fight for space , i am saving a fortune , used to put £150 + per month in petrol , in 3 months only spent less than £50 with cheap tarrif at home , after 28 ice cars its a nice change .
Sounds like it wasn't for you and your use case and you likely didn't put in the hours of research offline and here through the MANY content creators that has reviewed every EV. For me, it has been wonderful. The market FUD helped me secure a 1 year old, less than 10k miles luxury EV for more than 50% off. There was no ICE car that came close to this deal and I had been searching for a few months and hadn't considered EVs until I heard about Hertz unloading and causing instability on resale prices. If you currently have an EV, hold onto it. I spend maybe $12 / week to charge it at home and if I do need a charge while out and about (not much anymore since adding a level 2 charger at home) It was about that much as well but could be pricey if that was my only way to charge. Sure there have been some growing pains but the experience has been excellent so far. Road tripping might take longer but I'm no longer trying to speedrun my drives. It's quiet, no longer dealing with random smells or oil changes on my car (still have a gas cx5 in the garage) and saving about $48/wk. I'll have to give some of that back on the annual EV registration, but it's all good. Right now if you are looking for a lease, and are not considering EV, you're really missing out on crazy deals for a car you won't be keeping. Just get a proper charger at home and enjoy
I heard about Hertz offloading their Tesla fleet so I'm sure you got a phenomenal deal on your vehicle. I bought new so I took a hit, in my defense I did watch many YT vids about EV life and even road trips and I took my ID.4 on a 1000 mile road trip. You have a backup cx5 and it sounds like you have a nice setup with your EV. I wish you well. PS. I agree about all the fluids and smells. ICE cars can be stinky and messy.
@@ForagerTax I was not just trying to be a fanboy. I respect and agree with your assertations on EVs in general. I also think that most EVS (even Tesla) are not for everyone. Wish the powers that be would not force the subject on the public. I do believe that EV will be our next level of transportation, but it may take a generation before we see that. Unfortunately for the legacy automakers they make ICE vehicle very well, but EVs are a completely different animal. Legacy automakers have demonstrated the switch to EVs is too much for the average manufacturer and throwing a big battery into an existing platform just does not work.
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
Charge at home, save thousands. Our model 3 has over 100k and going extremely well.
Not everyone can rely exclusively on home charging, but if you can then more power to you.
you have to drive quite a bit for the gas savings to break even with depreciation / eventual battery replacement / initial premium. most people dont drive enough to justify the inconvenience, let alone the negligible savings. I don't think EVs are worthwhile unless you are saving at least 200 dollars a month from gas. If you have to worry about 100 bucks a month of necessary spending, you probably shouldnt be buying a new car to begin with.
Battery swaps solve all these issues. You can charge an NIO and own the battery 🔋... no problem.. just like a Tesla. BUT you have the "choice" to swap the batter. Longer range when needed and access to better future battery tech.
Bro you bought TWO gas cars?You can easily keep your EV, charge at home only, use it for short distances only, and use the gas car for long distances. Your complaints are so disingenuous.
Also buying a gas guzzler AND complaining about gas prices in the same video. Come on man.
Fair point, but that EV was depreciating fast whereas something like my Camry has amazing fuel economy and hold its value for years.
@@ForagerTaxignore depreciation and drive it for 20 years. The saving will be off the chart in most states. (sadly, probably not yours. CA electric rates are obscene)
So you blame everyone else for your poor choice of product? Take responsibility for not bothering to do some research before you buy anything.
I watched so many YT vids that made it look way less inconvenient. So many road trips, I even did a 1000 mile road trip - and it was very stressful. Bu I take full responsibility and the $10k loss that came with it.
@@ForagerTax I would make the argurment charging at home works for 90%. I worked for several huge companies in SoCal (LA), most of mine and my coworkers' daily commute were about 30~40 miles one way (1 hr to 1 and half hr). If you regularly do 1000+ trips, then EV wouldnt work. I am wondering why you thought EV would work in your case?
The bottomline is if you can't charge at home, don't buy an EV. I'm paying about .05c a KWH when I charge at super off peak which lowed my fuel bill from $225 a month for gasoline down to $27 a month for electricity. Those charging stations are charging as high as $1.12 (more generally .50-.60) KWH thats significantly more than price of gasoline; add to that the higher price of the car itself, it makes no sense to buy an EV if you can't charge at home.
If I were to buy an EV, it would be an inexpensive 4-year-old EV that I would charge at home and use in the city. I'll wait for my ICE car to die first.
Great time to buy a used EV now with such high depreciation, huge bargains to be had! Most people don’t drive long distances so the charging is not an issue for 90.%
I suppose for those that can avoid public charging they can indeed benefit from the depreciation bargains.
46,500 - 7,500 =39,000. selling for 30k means about 25% depreciation for 2 years. Not great, but it's ID4 and very much in line with all premium cars. This fellow intentionally making depreciation sound worse than it actually was.
@@ForagerTax how is public charging related to depreciation?
@@Custo911 for me depreciation was my friend, I got a car that retailed for $40k for $15k with 10k miles on it and honestly if the value goes to $0 I don't care as I got a nearly new car that I like and will keep for many years. The running costs save me on average $7k a year vs my ICE car so it's a no brainer!
@craigroberts3732 everyone has different situations. You must drive a lot too to be able to save this much as well.
However, my point was that this fellow... A *tax professional*!!!! Intentionally misrepresented depreciation numbers. Granted he obviously had a very bad experience with his car, but that is not an excuse for a tax professional to play with numbers and make it a main point of a video.
Depending on which state he lives in, he also could have received an additional rebate from the state making the depreciation even less...
According to a Bloomberg report, the top 20% of American households, with an average income of around $265,000, account for approximately 65% of new car purchases, indicating that a significant majority of new cars are bought by high-income earners.
I bought first one EV (A Chinese one) and a year after, a second one (also Chinese). And I'm very happy with my EVs. Can't imagine getting back to an ICE car. But, now I'm upset about this:
Electricity: U$ 1.00
Tolls: U$ 3.00
Nothing against EVs. Four people I know own them - 3 Tesla and a BMW. All except one charge their EV at home, live in cities, and drive short distances. They love their EV and swear they'll never go back to ICE cars. So you're right, EVs can be great if your driving environment fits what EVs are designed for.
Anecdote: I recently rented a car in Vegas and spent two weeks driving in Nevada, Arizona, and Utah. Outside of Vegas, I ran into probably less than 20 EVs. This is easy to understand because an average EV (e.g. Model 3/Y) would need to stop after 3 hours of driving at 75 mph and spend 30 minutes charging, not including any detour one might need to find a charger. Whereas in my home town Vancouver Canada, I'd typically see 20-30 EVs in 5 minutes or less. Used Model 3/Y retain their resale value very well because they're popular vehicles. So the bottom line is EVs are great but they're definitely not suitable for everyone...yet.
You are correct, in some areas, especially rural it's quite difficult. In California, they are phasing out the sale of ICE cars by 2035 which assumes EVs can be widely adopted by the masses - which is simply not the case - and least not in the foreseeable future.
@signpost5596 NIO battery swap is a game changer. Too bad we don't have it here.
@@UrbanGuitarLegend Yes, it sounds like a good idea but probably very hard to implement. The only way I can see that work is if batteries become generic like gasoline. Then any EV can go to a swap station for service regardless of brand and even the model. This means all the manufacturers will have to agree to make battery technology universal.
@signpost5596 I'm glad you brought that up. NIO, CATL and BYD are working to standardize batteries. NIO has been signing up partners to us their swap network.
@@UrbanGuitarLegend Didn't know that so thanks for the info. If someday swapping a car battery is like replacing the AA cell in a flashlight then EV will be mainstream. IMHO it would be great if there's a choice to just buy the car and swap in different size/range battery pack (modular and pay per use) according to one's needs. If I'm not mistaken Vinfast has similar marketing scheme?
I hate the resell value, hate the quality on my tesla after 200k km and 4yrs. Never have the issue on charging cuz i charge from home mostly. Love the energy part as EV.
200k km...Wow! I appreciate your balanced opinion.
Do you think a $500 Amazon charging station at your house help?
Thanks
Yes, that would have helped. Although San Diego has the most expensive electricity in the country.
It sounds like you bought an ev in the worst possible way. I really don’t know why you would buy a new id4 over a used model y if you were concerned about resale/charging network -you burned tens of thousands of dollars for no reason and ended up having to deal the worst charging network around. If you don’t have home charging ev makes almost zero sense. Not surprised you aren’t happy
If I recall correctly, the $7500 tax credit at the time was for new, and there was 3 years of free charging through Electrify America included. But even free charging wasn't worth it. By the way, there were a couple times that I remember the Tesla stations were full with a wait. Maybe that's rare and maybe you're right, that I did EV wrong. But even then, for EV to supplant ICE and scale, it needs to be easily adopted by the masses.
Some of the DCFC networks are charging crazy prices per kWh, and with piss poor reliability on top of that.
I think I'll hang on to my 2011 A6 2.0TDi for another while longer. 350k km & 50+mpg.
Wait 350K KILOMETERS! That's just 217K miles. Your do realize that is not much mileage for a BEV.
I figured the resale would suck but wanted to experience an ev, so I leased a Kona ultimate love it.I home charge it and it costs me $2.50 a week to charge it. I also kept my 2017 Honda Civic as my wife was the main driver and it only had 40,000 kms on it. The lease is under the warranty so no battery woes and no resale hassle.Just give it back. Glad I didn't buy but sorry about your woes.
well to me it seems that you just didn't think through your ev purchase (you're not alone to be fair). when buying an ev I wouldn't think even for a second about charging somewhere else than at home- too expensive, too long, too unreliable and so called fast charging ruins your battery. for someone who gets back home every night charging isn't an issue at all.
Agreed on slower charging at home, but when I'd be out all days of meetings (and in traffic) I had to charge publicly. Same as when I did a road trip. I've toured so many Targets and Walmarts while my car charged.
NIO battery swap. It's changing the game.
NOT HERE!
Hope you do way better on financial decisions. No? Ridiculous.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your VW. Having to depend on public charging without access to the Tesla network sucks; counter that though if you have home charging and access to superchargers then EV's rock.
You bought the wrong EV. Tesla infrastructure is much more superior. I’ve never had an issue charging, no matter where I go.
Great video, for me after all you said, what will an EV be worth once it is nearing the end of its battery life???
Buy Tesla or Nothing Else!
LOL VW wrong choices. I have Tesla M3 RWD 2023 . Charging at home at night saving 4000$ on fuel last year
Tesla owners always hating on VW, but public charging is public charing and it's a hassle.
@@ForagerTax I test drove one VW, just a ICE body with EV motor > bad.
I'm from AUS, our petrol is heavily taxed. 30c/1AUD is gov tax. Electricity from my solar tax-free
So EVs are not good for YOU because you can't charge at home/work and bad infrastructure in YOUR location ... but your title is for EVERYONE to not buy an EV ?
When I bought my first EV 7 years ago, my first question was "how will I charge it" and my answer was "at home" (like 65.6% of people living in the USA it would seem from the first result in google). Relying on public infrastructure is a risk. And I am still using the normal 230V outlet (I'm in France) for now 2 EVs.
"Countless hours charging at public chargers" I think firstly you bought the wrong car and secondly you are going about it all wrong. Charge at home, no issues
I have to drive to neighboring counties for work, add SoCal traffic and a full charge at home isn't enough. Also, I took a 1000 mile road trip. Exclusively charging at home is not realistic for most people.
@ForagerTax disagree, charging at home is extremely realistic for 90 of people. Most evs can do 400km easily at 80soc, no one does 200km to work one way. For road trips if you have issues with chargers, it's fair enough and it does happen. But a bit of planning goes a long way. And of course the governments need to step up massively in a lot of countries to provide better infrastructure
Thank you!
What tosh , Ev like Tesla making 30 k + at auction in UK ..
In fact my Ice Merc lost more money 😂
Mercedes depreciates almost as fast as an EV.
LOL Another Internet Financial Guru.
Please sign up for my course "how to lose $10k on an electric vehicle."
Your lack of research is your own stupidity, Tesla is the only EV with a charging network, no other manufacture can even come close.
Let me know when batteries can go 1000+ miles, until then....
Let me know when a gas guzzling passenger car gets 1000+ miles, until then I won't bother with gas guzzlers.
i love my ev , i only charge at home so no one
to fight for space , i am saving a fortune ,
used to put £150 + per month in petrol ,
in 3 months only spent less than £50 with
cheap tarrif at home , after 28 ice cars its a nice
change .
Assuming you didn't pay excessively more for your EV than a comparable ICE you won the transportation game. Good for you.
Sounds like it wasn't for you and your use case and you likely didn't put in the hours of research offline and here through the MANY content creators that has reviewed every EV.
For me, it has been wonderful. The market FUD helped me secure a 1 year old, less than 10k miles luxury EV for more than 50% off. There was no ICE car that came close to this deal and I had been searching for a few months and hadn't considered EVs until I heard about Hertz unloading and causing instability on resale prices. If you currently have an EV, hold onto it.
I spend maybe $12 / week to charge it at home and if I do need a charge while out and about (not much anymore since adding a level 2 charger at home) It was about that much as well but could be pricey if that was my only way to charge.
Sure there have been some growing pains but the experience has been excellent so far. Road tripping might take longer but I'm no longer trying to speedrun my drives.
It's quiet, no longer dealing with random smells or oil changes on my car (still have a gas cx5 in the garage) and saving about $48/wk. I'll have to give some of that back on the annual EV registration, but it's all good.
Right now if you are looking for a lease, and are not considering EV, you're really missing out on crazy deals for a car you won't be keeping. Just get a proper charger at home and enjoy
how much did you spend to "save" those whopping 48 dollars?
I heard about Hertz offloading their Tesla fleet so I'm sure you got a phenomenal deal on your vehicle. I bought new so I took a hit, in my defense I did watch many YT vids about EV life and even road trips and I took my ID.4 on a 1000 mile road trip. You have a backup cx5 and it sounds like you have a nice setup with your EV. I wish you well. PS. I agree about all the fluids and smells. ICE cars can be stinky and messy.
Good decision mainly because politicians should stop interfering in engineering
EV does not equal Tesla. EV are the legacy car companies trying to catch up with Tesla that is generations ahead of all others.
EVs are just junk period. I don't care who makes it.
Yeah sure, every Tesla owner tells me the same thing: Tesla > all other EVs.
@@ForagerTax I was not just trying to be a fanboy. I respect and agree with your assertations on EVs in general. I also think that most EVS (even Tesla) are not for everyone. Wish the powers that be would not force the subject on the public.
I do believe that EV will be our next level of transportation, but it may take a generation before we see that.
Unfortunately for the legacy automakers they make ICE vehicle very well, but EVs are a completely different animal. Legacy automakers have demonstrated the switch to EVs is too much for the average manufacturer and throwing a big battery into an existing platform just does not work.