The math only stacks up in the US where petrol is sold as cheap as water. In the EU for instance, electric has a major lifetime running cost advantage.
But at the same time, a lot of people in europe live in apartments with often no parking space and don't have the option of charging their cars whenever they want.
That being the case why are e car sales so poor in Europe? Even after subsidies. And taxes that triple the cost of fuel. I like e cars and would love to own one. But 1, I don't have a driveway and 2, I can only afford $5000 to buy a car so even secondhand e cars are beyond me. And I'm not some gangsta salvage engineering genius like Rich Rebuilds!
Bjarne Olav Kjølstad I don't have a garage in my apartment, not even a outdoor outlet... I know they won't bother to install any, because mostly old people with no car or fossil cars live here
What keeps me from getting into purely electric cars is that I live in an apartment building. I am on the 3rd floor, facing away from an open air parking lot. There are no electrical outlets near the parking lot, and I'm not going to dangle a 300ft cord from my apartment window to the parking lot just to have some other tenant unplug my car cause he wanted a giggle. I also wouldn't be able to charge my car at work because they don't have electrical access on the outside of the building. They also refuse to put in electric car chargers because not enough (literally 0) employees have electric cars to justify it. Not to be that guy, but I refuse to sit and babysit my car for hours at a charging/fuel station just to make sure I have enough juice for a couple days. Being on the poorer side makes electric only vehicles almost impossible to realistically own. For some people it's not a problem, and they have the ability to work around lack of charging support in their lives. For me, it's not practical until the infrastructure improves around me.
Read the edit please. I agree with you 100%, but wanted to let you know that once most EVs start charging, you can not simply unplug them. You have to use an app, key, or button inside the vehicle to remove the charger. Edit: I didn't understand what you meant at the time. While no one would be able to unplug the car at the car itself, if you're using an extension cord; someone could easily unplug the car by unplugging the extension cord.
This isn't a plug for tesla (pun intended lol), but the superhcarging network may take care of you. We don't have a tesla (yet), but the supermarket where we do $95% of our grocery shopping had a ten stall supercharging network put in about a year ago. We go there at least once a week, and from people I have talked to it will get them from 0-80% (what tesla recommends your max be for every day use) in half an hour. I can easily swing that, should I choose to. The cost of the car is really what is holding me back lol. That and, aside from wanting one, our current vehicles are perfectly fine and paid off, costing nothing but standard maintenance and fuel.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 1.45€/L in Greece(6.46$/gallon). Thats why we have max 1400cc cars here. We need 12€ every 100km (14.12$ every 62 miles) if its a small diesel like a fiat punto we need half the price.
@@Hallowsaw I was with Geico, then State Farm, then Progressive, went over to Root, now back at Progressive. It pays to shop around for your car/home owner/renters insurance yearly.
I think the more relevant question to ask in many cases would be "Should I buy a new(er) car?". And if you don't drive much, the answer is no. At least if what you have is reliable.
That's true if you don't value the increased performance, convenience and safety features that are more readily available on newer cars. Keeping an older car is pretty much always going to be more cost effective, but cars are getting better and adding new features all the time, and you need to decide if those factors tip the scales to determine that you are willing to spend more money on a newer car. But I think you are right that a lot of people just default to buying a new car, when if they considered it logically, what they want would be satisfied at a cheaper price by buying an older one.
It also depends where you live whether an old car goes bad quickly. In St. John's, NL or Halifax, NS, cars rust very quickly because of the heavy use of road salt, and will deteriorate whether or not they are driven often. 7-10 years is usually the reliable lifespan. However, warm wintered Vancouver, BC has some of the oldest used cars in good condition, where a lightly driven and properly maintained car is still in great shape after 30+ years.
We bought our Model 3 in September 2019. Within a week I realized the massive convenience factor. I leave my garage every day with the equivalent of a full tank. Our other car is a 2019 Volvo XC90. In the 12 months of owning both we put 16,000 miles on the Tesla and about 5,000 on the Volvo. When the Volvo lease is up in November of 2021 it will turn into a Model Y and we'll be 2 EV home. We live at 8,000 feet above sea level in the Colorado Rockies....winter is not an issue.
@@japalocoturbo Less air density => less fuel per combustion cycle => less power That's why piston airplanes can't climb too high without a compressor.
@@japalocoturbo in an ICE vehicle, power comes from air and fuel. More of either one increases power. Higher elevations have thinner atmosphere, meaning less air enters combustion. Less air = less power. Naturally aspirated cars make less power and run slower times at elevation (Colorado) than at sea level. The opposite occurs with forced induction (turbos and superchargers) where the main function of both are to introduce air into the engine. I don't have personal experience with forced induction at elevation, but those types of motors should not lose *as much* power compared to naturally aspirated cars. Electric motors don't need air and fuel to operate. So they should produce the same amount of power at any elevation. Non-scientific, but hopefully that's helpful. Reply if more clarification is needed.
That's hilarious. I've owned several VWs. For each of the new ones, the first three years were needed to find and fix all the bugs and flaws. After that, it was smooth sailing for many miles. They are a PITA until you shake them down.
Depends on where you live. Local labor rates, material costs. I can easily see it. With all the storm damage material supply is starting to be a real problem. I've seen wire cost go up as much as 50% in the last 6 months. Aluminum wire costs have skyrocketed to the point where it's no longer cost effective to run at any length and size whereas it used to be cheaper than copper for larger sizes just a year ago. Material and labor markets make a big difference on the cost.
I mean, it's true. I dropped out of university because I wanted to learn more. Now if you want a certification of some kind, maybe because you want a job in the field that you're learning in, then yeah you need to go back to school. Other than that though, you can learn just about anything you could want to know for free on the internet, much of that here on RUclips.
@@natalyasparrow6748 yeah, go to college to qualify for jobs, not to learn. As you said, everything you need to learn is free on the internet, short of PHD level education.
Ppl are telling you to don't go to school to learn.. Come on guys, i'm happy for him. Ppl who complaim about go to shcool to learn are the ones who can do it.. who want but can't wish to go to shcool.
I was a traditional car enthusiast that only would support combustion cars until my girlfriend got her plug in hybrid (15 Ford Fusion Energi) and now can see what's so great about electric cars. My next daily driver car is undoubtedly going to be electric in some fashion.
@@Tore_Lund Nobody should feel morally obligated to buy something that, under current circumstances, is only marginally better for the environment. Until full renewables/nuclear becomes reality, we need to make EVs more convenient to convince people to switch.
@@specialopsdave I Agreed on that, just Rolling out EVs without a similar goverment incentive to clean Up the Grid, does very little, to reduce emissions. Hopefully the US Will get back on track with the Paris Accord, so in 15 years, driving an EV Will be the on!y sane choice, both financialy and environmentally.
@Patrick Growing Up in Europe in the 70', I must admit, that I feel embarressed today, using at least two sundays every month to protest nuclear power since kindergarten. But that was the sentiment then. Actually today, Europeans are close to 50% approval of nuclear, but nobody wants Them in their own town. Still the Countries that have plenty of reactors, like France, export to the rest of Europe, So we are using it, while looking the other way.
Ehh, i made the switch from my 96 camry to a new car because I watched crash test videos, and those 90s cars are pretty scary haha new cars are light-years ahead in safety, that's my only motivation to get newer cars. My 93 sentra was literally a coffin on wheels. Super scary crash tests results.
Giggling. 88 Camry owner. P.S. Manual. 6 cylinder. And ...No stinkin' airbags. Fuel filter not located in the G.D.M.F. - wait for it - GAS TANK. No scan device or board for me to be fleeced because of it.
Regarding the "EV's run on coal" argument, the nice thing with EV's is that when you upgrade the grid to use more gas/hydro/solar/wind/nuclear power you automatically upgrade all the vehicles charging off it at no cost to the consumer. With ICE doesn't matter what you do with the grid ICE still pollutes exactly the same.
EVs, even when running on fossil fuels, use that energy more efficiently than ICE vehicles. Especially when you include the energy used transporting gasoline and diesel in huge tanker trucks
According to a donut media video I watched, over time, even on our dirtiest energy source, the carbon footprint of electrics us smaller. Initially though the production of these batteries has a huge carbon footprint, and other environmental/ ethical issues.
Just the electricity used in the refinery to produce a gallon of gas is about 7 kwh. This is always produced by the cheapest way possible. Over 90% of the time this is coal and onsite at the refinery. That is typically more electricity than an EV uses to drive 30+ miles.
@@bikesqump Yeah, mining coal in Texas is expensive, and wind power is nearly as cheap as importing. Plus, these oil/energy companies are starting to invest in renewables anyways in preparation for when fossil fuels go the way of the dodo.
4 years later, I still can’t believe this is a conversation. Even with the government intervention basically forcing people to buy EVs they don’t get popular. They are too expensive and too inconvenient. Running costs are low, but cars that will only last 6 years means that during their life they are cheap but you have to change them very often. I drive a 1996 Mercedes. Great car, almost no serious reliability issues and I’ll probably won’t change it for 5 more years or so, until EVs can become dirt cheap or last for 10-15 years they’ll never compete. They can be a tech bro or celebrity car but never a working man’s car.
I've got a 2017 Chev Volt, my boss has a model X Tesla, and my daughters friend has a Chevy Bolt. My second vehicle is a new Nissan Frontier pickup. I'm only charging the Volt on 120V and I'm at around 80% electric. (It has a 53 mile electric range before going to gasoline.) Most of the EV miles are local, and the gas miles are on a road trip. My boss uses his Tesla a lot around town, but uses his gasoline SUV when doing road trips. My daughters friend only has the Bolt, and attends local college, so he's fine with an EV. FYI - when I road trip, I usually rent a cheap sedan so I don't put tons of miles on my vehicles and my insurance gives me a break for low miles. I'm hoping more and more people go EV, so gas stays cheap when I have to drive my pickup. Lots of choices in vehicles out there!!!
well maybe.. It's also a matter of supply and demand. I work in the fuels business, and our refineries price fuels by what the demand is. My segment is pipelines, much smaller than our refinery group, and when demand is low and refinery margins are low, our little business can make better profits than several multi-billion dollar refineries. And if they try to make less product, their efficiency drops, so even if they sell it for more, they don't maintain their profit. (I've got 35+ years in the industry) So, if you are looking at wholesalers or retailers that can "gouge" ,I agree with you, but that doesn't apply to the entire process stream.
Richard Honor We bought a 2021 Kona ev two months ago, and have been using it as our daily driver ever since. I've kept track of our driving, and as near as I can figure, we've used the equivalent of $550 cad of gas to go 4,300 k. Our 2000 Vitara hasn't been driven for over three weeks (it gets app. 25mpg). Because our power company is a public utility, it is able to carry out a promotion of free charging at their 50kWh d.c. fast chargers for who knows how long. They are just starting to upgrade the chargers to 100kWh units. When we charge at home, our electricity costs app. $0.09 per kWh, and to charge from zero to 100% costs us around $5.75cad. That gives us a range of 428kilometers without charging. We have absolutely no buyer's remorse. 🤗🤗
We only have a Model 3 LR AWD, and it's fantastic! Had it since the end of '18. I only have a 15A plug in my garage, but it's enough especially if I can charge at work sometimes.
So far I've done about 1 year and over 20 000 miles on an EV as my only car, and I would like to point out, that a lot of the things Jason lists are very relevant but also case dependent. If you live outside the US do your own calculations. Gasoline is ridiculously cheap in the US compared to the EU for instance, which tilts the cost analysis for the benefit of the EV. As for road trips, this summer did my first 2000 mile EV Road trip and I loved how cheap it was to drive as well as the convenience of sleeping in the car with the aircon on through the night. But here in Finland we have a very good charging network so I can drive just about wherever I feel like. Again, do your study on how good it is where you live. How about business trips? At some point you'll have to stop for lunch or dinner, and that is when you plug in. Some 30 minutes of charging will take you far on fast chargers. One tip I do have if you consider an EV - range is king. Consider how often you drive long trips and size your battery accordingly. Finally, there are a few reasons I would go back to ICE. One is for the sound that a nice sports car makes. Another is for the handling and steering feedback, which is often considerably worse on EV's. Third reason is for towing. While the torque of the EV is great, you can't beat the fact that the ICE engine gets only more effective when you load it more so your relative mileage is actually often improved (when looking at consumed fuel / cargo weight that is moved around), where an ev will lose a significant portion of its range. And in many cases there might be no towing option for it at all.
" this summer did my first 2000 mile EV Road trip and I loved how cheap it was to drive as well as the convenience of sleeping in the car ...... " --- Sounds awful, can't imagine when I would go on a vacation where the plan was to sleep in the car.
@@davidmorrow4195 I would sleep in my old Camry Wagon. but I also agree with the first comment, the ‘19 Tesla Model 3 feels weird to drive, exactly like a GTA 5 car. It’s like fast off the line, but once you go 60, it feels like it’s just like the car is saying, “what, you still want more? 🙄fine.” And it’s kinda floaty to be honest without any weight in the front. Maybe to some people that’s fun, but all you hear is the whoosh from the road and honestly it’s a lot louder than I was hoping. And the autopilot mode beeps at you to keep your hands on the wheel so I don’t see the point. Just an overall disappointment in my opinion. But hey, you can make the turn signals make fart sounds in the settings, no joke. (Who is that even for???)
@@scottoleson1997 just rest your hand on the steering... I let it sort of rest by my thumb and you're good to go. Autopilot is the best! Love it for highway, traffic or if I'm just on a normal road, but need to take my eyes off the road for whatever reason.
@MadeInFinland "Another is for the handling and steering feedback, which is often considerably worse on EV's" I drive a Model 3 LR AWD and a BMW M2. Even with the M2 in Sport Mode, the Model 3 has much better/tighter feeling feel. Obviously if you want feedback (i.e. you're at the track) then that's a whole different ball of wax, but 99.9% of the people who buy these cars won't see, not to mention drive at the track.
@@brois841 not 99.9 … sorry. It’s more than one in 1000 drivers and enjoys a good handling vehicle. Not something that hugs the road because of the weight of the battery pack, but something agile and light.
I agree with you! It's all about convenience! I drive a 3 cylinder gas car, I took a road trip from the Midwest to FL, and I drove 1,250 miles. I paid no more than $64 for gas plus I still have a half of a tank in the car. It took me 18 hours for the trip. If I had an electric car it would of taken about 24 hours per Tesla's charging guide. If I had to pay for electric, per Telsa cost calculation it would cost me $97.
Well for us, we went to a BMW i3 about 4 years ago. It cost more, it's the only car in the household and we sometimes need to do long trips to see family so it was primarily point 5 (Environment) that caused us to make the switch. I haven't burnt anything in the last 4 years and I've loved every trip as it's great fun to drive. I'm an ex-petrol head and bought my first VW Beetle at age 12, so I've always been fascinated by cars in many forms.
with electric you must take into consideration how your electricity is made - those are your emissions. Simply look up the same info as in the video and calculate CO2/Watt.
@@driverpsyche Well, the grid changes over time. But I'd argue the real boost for the environment when buying an EV is supporting the transition by paying money for such a car. In other words, even if the electricity is not fully green right now, you have contributed towards green mobility in the future.
Yes, yes and yes. I basically have the "cheap" version of Jason's stable: an e-Golf (bought new 6 months ago) and an Na8 Miata (and my girlfriend has a Civic). The Miata may be the fun car, but the e-Golf is also a pretty fun vehicle, thanks to instant torque and the Golf chassis. I have often read that an electric car can only be a second vehicle because of the limited range. In actuality, it really is the first car as the cost of operation, comfort and convenience are the best. I never even used the rapid charger and I don't even plan to. I bought the car knowing full well its pros and cons and I knew that for longer distances, we would simply use the Civic. But for suburban driving, even the errands to go to the other side of town (up to 100 km in total), the Golf is the way to go. If we ever need to change the Civic for a bigger vehicle, a RAV4 prime would be high on the shopping list. As for noise, let's be real: most cars on the road don't even sound good. If you drive a Mustang GT as your daily, good for you, but if your daily is a Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3, etc, you won't miss the noise, but you will enjoy the absence of vibrations. As for shifting gears, yes, a good manual is fun, but one-pedal driving is just another kind of fun that is also legitimate.
One thing worth mentioning, petrol cars are more fuel efficient when driving on the highway (higher speeds), but electric cars are the other way around (as their engine revs way higher on highway, electric cars not having a gear box). Also, some other points to take into view: scarcity of the materials used in batteries (and the way they are mined), also the grid would probably just collapse, if everyone would suddenly switch to an electric car.
Your theory is a bit off. Cars are more efficient at slower speeds due to air resistance. The faster a car travels, the less efficient it is, gas or electric. The reason combustion cars have a higher MPG rating is due to start and stop traffic in the cities. Every time a gasoline car stops, the momentum energy gets turned into heat by the brakes. Electric cars capture this energy back by letting the momentum spin the electric motor turning into a generator that chargers the batteries, hence they use regenerative motor braking. And the grid would not collapse with electric cars as the grid is designed to handle peak use which is only a few hours a day. Typically, peak hours are only 8 hours a day 5 days a week, while off peak is 16 hours a day 5 days a week and 24 hours on weekends and holidays. During these off peak hours, power plants are idled or taken offline. There is a huge amount of surplus generating capacity off peak and we have the ability to charge tens of millions of electric cars with basically nothing more than basic routing upgrades to the grid.
Also, I was at Bryce Canyon and Zion this summer-both of which are way off the beaten path-and lots of Teslas were at those parks. I’m not sure how convenient charging was, but it surely didn’t stop folks from using electric cars way out in the country!
Most major national parks and such have charging in nearby tourist stops and towns. Its really little places like rural Tennessee where I can't take my model 3. I was there for a wedding at an AirBnB and it just wouldn't have worked. I swapped with my buddy or would have rented for this trip, as my model 3 SR+ is the only car my gf and i have. This was the only trip in 20,000 miles that we didn't feel comfortable with.
Bought my Nissan Leaf in 2011, paid $32,000 cash, no tax on EV in Washington State, made ~100kMiles. NO maintenance during little then a decade -- CHANGED TIRES ONLY -- once !!. Driving 100k on an ICE requires 5000 gallons of gas for regular 20mpg ICE car. Let's multiply 5000 gl * $3.5/gl = $17500!! My Leaf even has original auxiliary 12VDC battery that constantly charged by original build-in 1 sq. ft solar panel. Best commuter in the World.
But you have to realize that on a road trip, you don’t wanna run the car below 20% so that means you have to stop ~ every 150 miles so you can fill up to 80% which is what’s recommended, but even at a Tesla level 3 supercharger, it takes about an hour and 15 mins to get from 20-50 miles up to 200. Does that sound like saving time or fun? A 10 hour trip going 700 miles becomes 13 or more if it’s not a Tesla brand Charger. Because when my dad and I tested a 2019 Model 3, it was always super far to each charger so the car tells you only go 65mph. I don’t want that to be the future of road trips. No thanks, I do like to go fast.
@@scottoleson1997 Where did I say anything about road trips, and why just assume someone watching this video isn't aware of this vehicles range, charging network, and Tesla's recommendations? I mean you're pretty much just repeating the cons that were mentioned. Why? If it upsets you that people other than San Francisco's finest are interested in this car, perhaps you shouldn't read the comments. Edit: If you think this is the future of the electric car, you are sorely mistaken. You are witnessing the genesis, and the tech is only going to get better, go farther, and be more commonplace.
@@InuranusBrokoff Few things annoy me more in youtube comments than irrelevant replies that attempt to argue against points that I am not making. I have never seen someone address that kind of reply as beautifully as you have done here. I commend you.
yes you can do a 4 hour journey without stopping at a station with an electric car saving you money and time. I think most EV's do 215 mile range. 211mpg where as petrol cars only do 45mpg
My son traded his 2014 Mustang GT for a 2022 Tesla model 3P. Considering his 60 months of $427.00 payments, after subtracting the $300.00 averaged GT monthly for premium fuel, his out-of-pocket monthly cost is $127.00. Plus, his power bill adds around $3.17 in electricity for every 100 miles driven, ...and his Tesla is much quicker.
Ben Sullins Yes, who cares about top end speed? When you're city driving, it's a race from one red light to the next. It's all about starting torque. As for maximum speed, some cop bored out of his skull sitting in a radar trap sees YOU blow by at 120mph+ and it's Yee Hah!, another high speed chase, and he gets to meet his ticket quota the easy way. I wave as I drive by doing 70 in a 60 zone because my ev just blew the doors off him up to 50mph, so he was embarrassed and cranked it up to show me how fast he was. 🤗
Andrew Boehmer Nope! The most dangerous accidents are at intersections. You've got a green light and some entitled texting goof t-bones you as he/she runs the red light. Deadly multi vehicle accidents slamming cars into pedestrians or bus stops. There's lots of dash cam videos on you tube to educate you.
That's an argument only valid to fanatics. 99% of drivers couldn't care less if their car gets to 60 in 5, 7 10 or 2 seconds. When you drive away you're not on a race track and when you get on the freeway, many times, there is enough traffic to prevent you to even accelerate that fast. So, this argument is to most irrelevant when choosing a car.
220v (level2) is a super easy install, especially if you already have an electric dryer or stove. You can plug in directly to those outlets if you buy a charger off Amazon or Ebay. About 150 to $300 USD.
Just remember that the closest Tesla Superchargers are 150 miles (St. George, UT) and 120 miles (Page, AZ). Any chargers closer are 16kW (or less for what are in campgrounds). If you want to see Zion or Bryce (or about anything else) you need to plan ahead (but if you own a Tesla you are probably used to that).
Here in norway there is no doubt that electric is the way to go. They are cheaper, electricity is way cheaper then fuel with an avarge price of 1,5$ pr liter and they can drive in bus lanes. There are more benefits other then that aswell.
@@nealp885 yeah thats what they make you think. the prizes are high because the government wants to get money, first, they take some of your salary, then you have to pay to own a house, then u have to pay five different costs to own a car, then they tax the electricity, then they take some more of ur money when u buy something. they just spread it out so it doesnt look so bad. in reality its around 80% of our money that goes to the government. but why? so they can play with thier rockets and nuclear weapons and of course pretend to be good for the enviroment and build a bunch of wind farms when nuclear is better in all ways.
@@lucasvanhamburg4937 What a bunch of crazy drivel. The government of Norway is taxing you to build rockets and nuclear weapons...??? You need to get your head examined.
Drove my Chevy Bolt 1000 miles moving from Texas to Florida, no problem if it's a rare trip. Every other day of the year, being able to charge at home is SO much better than going to the gas station every week or two
Went from a Subaru WRX to a Tesla model 3 SR+ and no regrets! Love my model 3, but I can see why electric is not for everyone! My weekly commute is about 200 miles and when I get home I just charge it in my garage! When I take a longer road trip a have a Tesla charging station 10 minutes from my house at a mall, so I need to charge up quicker I leave the car there for 20 minutes while I walk around the mall.
Funny story I’ve got an 18 wrx myself and would love a model 3 or even a coupe if they release one anytime soon. I love the turbo and awd but have wanted electric for some time now. I live right down the road from work, have superchargers being installed at the local target a mile or two away from me right now, and love the minimalism and less maintenance that comes with them.
I have to chip in as another Subaru guy. I still have my 03 WRX, she sits pretty in the garage and I take her out about twice a month. Daily since April is a Model S. They are both very enjoyable cars, in strikingly opposite ways. My advice is keep them both and enjoy accordingly.
@@alex86devapath as someone who's also driven manual most of my life, I must say I don't miss stick at all, especially in traffic. I hate automatics even more now... so clunky.
That claim is actually false. Just because you install a L2 charger doesn't mean your panel has to be upgraded. You can install a L2 charger and just run it at a lower current. Instead of 32A or 40A, you can charge at 20A or even 15A. When electric cars charge is mostly at night, when rest of the power hungry equipment like stoves, ovens, coffee makers, toasters and microwave ovens are not in use.
If you have a breaker box that can't supply a 50 amp circuit, your breaker box is probably a fire risk. If your panel can run an electric stove, oven, or dryer, it can run an EVSE.
@@KJfourIPS That is false. The car can be set to charge at a set current and you can use an aftermarket J1772 charger. That charger can be set to whatever Amps you choose, 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A, etc. There is no requirement to use a 50A circuit unless you want to max out the L2 charging. You can easily use a 30A dryer outlet and charge at 24A. Under NEMA/NEC rules, you have to de-rate any circuit by 20% you are using over 2 hours. The car however can charge at any current level from basically 2A to 48A.
Besides having range anxiety and hating to babysit an EV car at charging stations for up to an hr and the lack of infrastructure everywhere, I’d be going crazy thinking that every time I’m fast-charging my car I’m speeding up the battery degradation. And also if I ever risk running out of juice, the ONLY solution out of that is a tow truck. With an ICE, I know if I ren out of gas (which is extremely rare with the vast number of gas stations) I can pull over and hitch a ride to a gas station, buy a gas can and bring gas back to my immobilized vehicle. For now I’m content with the ICE vehicles flexible lifestyle. It’s not like I change the oil or the engine/transmission breaks down often. People buying EVs make it sound like an ICE vehicles just starts falling apart left and right even if you take care of it. It can go for years before any major failures. lol
We're a two car family, and BOTH are electric. I do long journeys all time time and never really find it inconvenient, yes you have your stops dictated a little more but the time stopping en-route isn't really much more than with IC.
@Yar Nunya I fully appreciate that, what I'm referring to is the stop time in total. If stopping purely to fill up with gas then get on your way again ASAP is your thing then it's a lot quicker. I like to use the bathroom every now and then and get a cup of coffee, and by the time I've done that and got back to the car it's taken on 80% charge without me having to stand over it. Now, where my argument falls down ( and many other EV advocates' ) is when the trip each way is less than a couple of hours. The normal argument is that you should stop anyway for safety so taking a charge doesn't take any more time than is safe. However if that safe stop is at the destination and you'll be driving back home afterwards, plus there's no destination charger then you have an un-necessary stop on the way back. This is what I'll have tomorrow when I drive a 140 mile each way trip, so I'm going to have to stop half way on the return leg to charge where in an IC car I could safely have done both legs without needing to take a rest break. This is something I'm happy to do as the other benefits easily outweigh this inconvenience.
@@iPeel I agree. When you have to use 45-60% of your car's range to reach a destination without a charger, and the trip isn't long enough to warrant a bathroom or proviant break, it becomes a slight inconvenience. When travelling further than the car's range in a day, charging speed is paramount to reduce inconvenience. With a slow charging EV, it will take a noticeable amount of waiting time (20+ minutes). But in the best case (Tesla), it's still a minor inconvenience - yet I personally think it's outweighed by the benefits. Worst car scenario for an EV is a trip with lots of ~10 mile cold start drives in Canadian/Alaskan/North Scandinavian winter.
This is the best HONEST EV/ICE video. It is 100% true you don’t understand how awesome it is to have a full battery every morning until you get a plug in. Charging at home is MORE convenient than buying gas!
For me the test drive was decisive. Loved how electric vehicle drive, so got one. A "cheap" one, of course, but one nonetheless. Good points in the video though.
I had a fully electric then had to go back to gas for a while, it's hard to describe the frustration because technically they had basically the same power specs but gas is just... laggy? It's that minor delay between your foot hitting the pedal and the gas hitting the engine that just kinda wears on you after you've had electric power, ya know?
You take it for granted. I did a lot of "perilous maneuvers" at the beginning because I thought that every car was as responsive as mine at the lights, during a start and stop, in roundabouts.. Now I know that only actual "fast cars" can keep up with the responsiveness.
@Yar Nunya Not following your claim here. Most Turbo gasoline cars are 4 cylinder and the peak torque happens high in the RPM range. Diesel cars have some lower end torque but none have peak torque available at 0 RPM like electric cars.
Thanks for a clear, concise breakdown of the pros and cons of EV's. No EV fanboy swooning, and no V8 (Because 'Murica) nonsense, either. EV acceptance will boil down to infrastructure and EV density in a particular area for those that require that infrastructure to operate their EV's. Where I am, the nasty winters really eat into range, and charging stations are fewer. When I retire in a couple years to the USA Southwest, I will definitely be in an EV for daily use with a gas-fed toy or two for the joy of shifting. Solar panels on the roof are part of that plan as well, and will lessen the footprint even more.
According to a report released by Volvo, all things considered from battery manufacturing to elictricity production, you would have to drive an electric car 90 thousand miles to break even with a gas powered car. So, there's that.
@@SpottedSharks Volvo makes both! That's what makes it interesting. They were comparing apples to apples. I'm sure consumer reports has their agenda too.
Glad to see that EVs are improving. However, there is one quibble I have in comparing an EV to ICE: the overall life of the vehicle. A well-engineered and properly maintained ICE vehicle can remain functional for multiple decades. Many EVs I'm seeing need total battery replacement around the 10 or 15 year mark. Given the bulk of the EV's emissions cost overall stems from the resources and energy required to build those battery packs, this means the lower emissions in the back end is canceled out as you need to make more batteries (or entirely new vehicles) to replace those that are ending their service lives. Obviously, this will improve with better engineering, technology, and developing methods to recycle the various components, but for now I'm sticking to ICE.
One of the biggest advantages I see in EV is that you are moving the combustion away from people. Vehicles are a huge source of pollution in cities so by reducing combustion (and brake wear) in cities that will improve health.
@@jimboTTT - Well, actually, in this video, which the OP was referring, he did. Even in that video you cite, he glossed over the recycling or other damage to the environment for getting rid of huge EV batteries. These EV batteries are generally NOT renewable.
You have one life, I have driven well designed, well-engineered cars for years, many times these have delivered in so many so many different ways, enabling me to travel large distances safely for work and returned to be with my family. in comfort without wondering if there was any doubt that in most cases 1 tank of fuel would be sufficient to the trip. The new way of driving taking huge diversions with long (by comparison) times to get enough fuel to maybe have to repeat this again and all of time behind the wheel watching a large computer screen in the centre of your dash.I am alive today to a large degree by keeping my attention ahead and using peripheral vision, and of course the mirrors. my personal thought is that watching any screen in a vehicle is not a good idea, experts I think agree judging by the laws of driving behaviour, i.e phones, books or eating whilst driving an offence. Yet this screen devours your attention to the extent that whilst trying to save the world you have every chance of ending the life and a family's world at every time you spend with your eyes on that screen working out if or when you will be able to reach a destination. get a train ,, if you can, or work from home. Whatever way you look at these vehicle's that's not enjoyable.
@@SpottedSharks Its still a good point. Keep attention on the road. There are too many entertainment gadgets being dumped into cars. Might as well hire a driver since you're not driving. Oh wait self driving cars. Meh. No. Too much automation.
No one ever seems to mention how much gas people use up letting their ICE car warm up long enough to defrost or defog the windshield in winter. Nowhere near the range loss on an EV but it is still there, especially in very cold climates in winter.
Can confirm. Just bought a 2017 Bolt Premium on Wednesday and haven't stopped smiling :D I don't have solar, but I can charge at work for free at least.
I live in Rome, I don't own a garage. A Renault Zoe costs 32k euros, my old c2 costs me 1000 euros per year in gasoline. Why should I switch to electric? Considering that now a big diesel car costs around 20k. They are doing it wrong, not enough incentives for ev and not enough disincentive for ice.
He did mention it a bit quickly, but the entire footprint of electric cars, including manufacturing the car and the battery is still cleaner than a gas car in most states. Also keep in mind that the chart he is using is from 2015, and the chart has moved even more in favor of EV's in 2020 due to massive phase out of coal power in the USA..
@@ramadhanisme7 EV's don't really have much rare earths if any. Even the batteries are mostly Nickel, along with Aluminum, Copper and Graphite. Lithium and Cobalt make up a small fraction of the total.
In regards to resistance heating reducing range in electric cars, it's worth pointing out that the Model Y uses a much more efficient heat pump system (which I know you know, as you did a video on it), and thus doesn't suffer much of a penalty from operating in cold weather, especially if you have it plugged in and set a departure time, which allows it to prep the battery for maximum efficiency, if I'm not mistaken.
For charging, it is also worth considering charging stations at places like grocery stores. For the stores with fast chargers, you can do pretty well while you're doing something you might do anyway. Sometimes with a better parking spot than you would otherwise have. Some stores have free level 2 charging as well. Which lessens the pain of not having charging in an apartment.
Great video, as always. One small request: Can you include Canada as much as possible when giving information about the USA so as to cover all of North America? That also means adding metric units, but that's a good thing anyway. Thanks!
Considering Metric is superior in every possible way, and the fact that the rest of the world (roughly 7 Billion people) uses metric, it surprises me that anyone (let alone our awesome EE host here) would use US Customary Units as their sole measurement system for RUclips videos like these.
The only reason I am not buying an electric is because we do not need to replace our car and by the time we do the chances are autonomous transportation will have taken over and I will not need to own a car at all. Our current 10 year old car only has 31,000 miles on it. We bought it a year old as a lease return and have only put 14,000 on it since then. And we travel even less now that the wife is retired the car only moves about 10km a month. Makes no sense to buy a new car. And for how little we drive I'm not worried about our carbon footprint at all. Our little garden offsets more lol
Great video, thanks! I would like to see more information on the manufacturing / total carbon footprint of ICE vs EV, emissions is only one environmental component.
The total carbon footprint of ICE cars will always be far higher than EV's. The additional emissions during manufacturing of an EV are offset typically within 12 to 18 months. Over 90% of lifetime emissions of a typical car comes from burning fuel. Barely 5% to 10% comes from manufacturing.
Side note about the eGolf and the Fiat 500e: They are fun, and relatively cheap; but even as an avid electric fan that sub 100 mile range was worrying. Logically I knew they had far more range than I would need 90% of the time, but when you get on the highway with the AC on and see that range meter dropping almost 3 miles for every mile you're going it's unsettling. I think the newer eGolf's have more range, but don't quote me on that. The one I test drove was just over 100 miles. The eGolf is just like the gas version 4 door Golf. The 500e is just like the gas Fiat. That's the problem though, neither was designed to be an EV. They're basically conversions. Well done ones, but it's still better to design a vehicle from the ground up to be an EV.
Buying a car that you can use only for driving around corners is useless. Imagine petrol car with 10l tank. Even if you´d have a petrol station in your courtyard, id would become annoying. Even if you don´t need it, it´s better to have it and not use it, than need it and don´t have it.
@@Morpheus-pt3wq All depends on your setup. If you only drive 20 to 30 miles a day and charge it every night. A short range EV could work fine for your needs. Some people have been perfectly happy with a 500e or a Spark, or even the iMiev.
I must say ur the most honest RUclipsr out there, I’m tired of these pro ICE cars only who demonize EVs religiously.. for the sake “old is best” or “batteries are more harmful” a lot of them don’t even know batteries can be 1. Recycled 2. Repaired (don’t need to swap it), 3. Last a very long time and have adequate warranty to the point people usually sell it before anything happens (I’m planning to keep mine as long as possible). But kudos to you, you have given both ice and ev justice and told it exactly how it is. I’ve had my model y for 8 mounths now and I’m saving anywhere between $4-5k per year in petrol alone (then comes service etc ). Like u said I never ever think about petrol starions cause I have always plenty of. Charge and only plan for that once or twice long trip per year (I live in Aus). And let’s face it when ur on holidays ur not really in a rush u can spare 20min Not sure what the fuss is about. Let’s not forget my Tesla won’t need brakes for a very long time sometimes more than 10 years. No belts, spark plugs, oils, gearbox issues, shafts, n anything associated with an internal combustion engine. The most smooth n responsive drive u can imagine. Ps I have 3phase solar 10kw system got it installed cheap, which is how I nearly pay nothing for driving, each hour adds 70km of range. So again like u said there’s plenty of time to charge it back.and that system powers both my house n car, last bills were : $170 and $360 per quarter.
We lost power in Houston,TX for Days Last year and my Friend had One of theses EV She didn’t have power to move around, was stuck this makes me think if the Grid was to ever go down EV Vehicle’s would be dead in The Water and you won’t be able to get out the Cities in case of Emergency.
Plus, as you mentioned in some of your other videos, EVs are much more responsive to the accelerator pedal than guzzle-line cars. When my Prius Prime switches over to gas, I have to consciously remember that stepping on the gas pedal will be laggy, whereas, in EV mode, it feels like the entire drive train is sliding on teflon (well, other than the tires on the road!).
For me their are multiple reason. 1. I like manuals 2. The lack of (V8) sound 3. Their range 4. The lack of a ICE makes it just boring and not as exciting as driving stick. Don't get me wrong electric cars are fast but they just hit different it's the lack of all of the above mentioned reasons but it's also the fact that in my opinion they lack a certain kind of aura. They don't give me as James May would put it "the fuzz". But I can respect why people would drive them.
That's fair, personal taste should account for decisions made. I personally hate driving manual anymore, having driven my old Mustang back and forth through Seattle traffic for years, I welcome giving my shoulder a break from all the action these days. At this point I drive out of necessity, and only around town mostly. EV all day... at least when my current ICE vehicles eventually die... which sucks, because every time I change my oil, I'm prolonging the life of a vehicle I'd rather not have anymore, them's the breaks I guess.
That was think that hold me back for a while since I’ve driven manual my entire life. My last car a WRX was lots of fun. But now I love my model 3 SR+. Occasionally I still miss the stick shift, but the other pro of a EV Made it worted for me but I can see how they are not for everyone.
Thank you very much for making this video. I appreciate the excellent, non-biased information! As someone who has had an EV, I can attest to how inconvenient they are in comparison to full hybrids and ICE vehicles. Yes, maintenance is less expensive, but repair charges can be prohibitively expensive if the broken component is not covered by warranty.
I really like the idea of a plug in, so I can charge it at night and drive short distances on ev mode and go ice for the longer distances, also better for the engine since using it for short distances is not what they really like
You just described a plug-in hybrid. And I agree with you, they are great interim/transition vehicle to get people used to driving electric without the range anxiety worries.
Enjoy the stink, noise and inefficiency of your internal combustion engine as long as you can. Remember, people who owned horses and buggies probably said the same things as you... at one time. Best wishes holding on to the past. Cheers.
@@gwarlow Well they aren't inefficient nowadays, probably one of the most developed and refined forms of power generation. Currently they are faster than electric. They will still be developed far into the future, like the steam engine is with the extreme amounts of torque it can push. Power stations use steam to generate electricity.
I’d be curious about the environment impact of used car batteries and how that’s managed. ICE can be melted down and remade. What do they do with used car batteries? Thank you for your videos
Cobalt and nickel are easier to handle and while lithium can be recycled, it is a difficult(read expensive) process right now. There are pilot plants doing testing but will still be several years before it takes off.
Lead batteries are among the most recycled things on the planet. Asphalt is the most recycled in case you're curious. Lithium, aluminum, cobalt, copper, etc are all just as recyclable as steel and aluminum in combustion engines. The same goes for the silicon, glass, aluminum and other stuff in solar panels. Technically everything is recyclable if you throw enough energy at it, but raw elements like the ones used in batteries and motors is easier to recycle.
Batteries are recycled firstly by getting a second life as a static energy storage for chargers/home energy storage where they could still be useful an extra 10-20-30 years. For the dead batteries I guess we would be able to recycle them.
very helpful video but you fail to mention the problematic reliance on lithium; a material we don't have enough of to support the electrification of everything using lithium ion batteries and also a material that is being mined and sought after in deeply troubling ways with significant negative impact on our environment. I really believe this should also be a consideration.
Good news is, not only is the technology improving at a fast rate, less and less cobalt is being used for batteries; current sodium and redox batteries don't use any plus it is highly likely in less than a decade, sodium will overtake lithium.
Great discussion. Would love to hear your thoughts on the cost & environmental comparison IC vs electric if u include the petroleum and battery (rare earth metals) procurement and battery disposal or recycling. Not an easy task but important as well. Keep up the interesting videos!
Yeah, never hear anything about that. Just what we want, all kinds of dead electric cars / battery's laying around in a salvage yards, or Pay for a new battery? Total the car? GOTCHA! $$$
Not included is the carbon footprint for manufacturing all the solar equipment and wind generators as well as the installation impact. And the footprint of manufacturing and installation of transmission lines to carry the additional power to urban areas as well as the mfg. and installation of charging stations. Plus in major cities with existing apartments/condos and high rises, power needs to be delivered to residents with EVs. More impact.
I want to go electric, but there’s nothing that compelling to me that’s currently on-market. I like the Teslas the most as cars, but their quality control issues and anti-right-to-repair stance sours the deal and everything else doesn’t have enough range to cope with the cold temperatures and rural nature of my area. What I’m hoping is that battery tech trickles down to aftermarket manufacturers and EV conversion kits for older cars become both practical and cheap. I’d be happy to drop $10K and convert a VW Beetle, Chevrolet Corvair, or Honda CVCC to electric and daily something cool and unique that I could repair myself.
niffrig - Not yet, at least. Battery technology is getting better every day and the costs are tumbling. I could see an LS-sized motor-and-battery package with a guaranteed 150-200 mile range for $10K or less becoming available in the next 10-15 years.
For convenience I prefer electric cars, even though I can't charge at home and only have on car. I can charge at a 5 minute walking distance, which I find much less inconvenient than visiting a gas station. Walking is also healthy and I do it anyway. Also gas cars require a ton of maintenance and break often. And I love that I can turn on the AC from my phone. Especially in winter when I can simply melt the ice and snow, and don't have to manually remove them with hard work in the freezing cold. And I don't have to wait for the engine to warm up, I have heating and I have performance immediately, only regenerative braking is limited while the battery is cold, but preheating helps with that too. And a Tesla is even more convenient in many ways. In other cars you have to push a ton of buttons before you can drive, even in the most modern ones. In a Tesla you step on the brake, put it into drive with one finger, and that's it. Unless you have a pin code set, which is highly recommended, but even that's not a big deal. And when you stop, you just get out of the car and leave, nothing else. It puts itself into park, turns off and locks itself. The Model X even opens and closes the door for you. I also love the Tesla app. In theory gas cars could have most of the same features, but they generally don't. Just one example, I can unlock and lock the car on my phone, which is super convenient when I want to let someone to access the trunk. With most other cars I have to use the key which has very limited range, and no feedback. And it's also worth mentioning that the Model 3 and Y have much more advanced heat management, so they don't lose nearly as much range as other EVs in winter. I'm also buying 100% clean electricity from my utility.
@@AlbinoFuzWolf I bought Volkswagen before going electric. That's supposed to be the highest quality you can get. Maybe Japanese cars are maybe more reliable, but when they break, repairs are slow and expensive (in Europe at least).
I'm glad you continue to talk about ICE cars, Thank You. There are many of us who can't afford an EV or does not fit in our current situation. Frankly we're tired as being treated by lepers or the condescending attitude. Thank you.
Frankly, the 'let them eat cake' attitudes of too many EV owners + environmentalists puts off a lot of folks who don't find it practical for their needs...
This past weekend in Austin, Texas we were told not to use large electric appliances and to set the AC at 78 because the heat wave we are experiencing is stressing the electrical grid and could cause a blackout like we had in the winter of 21. OK ... what would happen if most households had EVs that need daily charging? Somebody is not thinking this through.
I am personally excited about extended range plug in hybrids. This seems smart for people who enjoy traveling off the beaten paths, but who also want to lower emissions. The Jeep Wrangler 4xe, the F150 hybrid, and other vehicles like these make a lot of sense. I love the idea of being able to commute on electric, but have the engine ready to kick in when I want to explore or for long trips. One day I'm sure electric technology will advance to the point where range won't be much of an issue, but that day is not today. ICEs still have a place until then.
If Tesla’s new batteries pan out, with >80% reduction in manufacturing energy, the environmental story will shift even further towards EVs. And if other manufacturers can use it too, we could see plug-in hybrids with 100 miles electric range - great for people who can’t charge at home.
True, but those improvements will not be available for a few years and that assumes the additional testing and scaling up attempts are successful (i.e. profitable).
Tesla's aspiration with their current pilot lines is to get to a $25k car with 300+ miles of range in 3 years. Call that 4 years to adjust for Elon time, but the TCO of that thing is going to outcompete virtually any road legal ICE car that I know of. 5 years further down the line and the second-hand market will be flooded with millions of affordable Tesla's with good value and range that covers 99.9% of most people's needs. How is the hybrid appealing with BEV tech improving so much every year?
This should be EV 101. This is the best pro and con conversation that I've seen, and it's all at a level anyone can understand. Okay, maybe you've glossed over the long distance, point-to-point a bit, but you have the supercharger network. My Bolt would not travel as well (but we have a PHEV as well). Great vid!
@@Pferdesalami The nuclear waste in thorium reactors (which are more efficient and safer than the current uranium reactors) is much safer and has almost no potential to create nuclear weapons.
@@bj.bruner there are no thorium reactors and never will, because they are salt reactors and no material withstand the radiation and the salt combined.
@Paul Nobert that is bulshit, even today a battery pack is at 70% at 350,000 km, so far away from beiing useless, but at 70% of its capazity normaly the battery will be replaced. So when you are going down to 50% you can even drive longer with a battery pack, i assume 500,000 km much longer as the most combustion engines are running. And producing a new combustion engine isn´t co2 free at all.
Something else worth noting is that in Europe the scene is very different to the US in terms of vehicle emissions. Our vehicles can fail their emissions tests very easily, meaning you could buy a brand new car, but it's no longer road-worthy in 3 years due to stricter emissions regulations coming into place. This happened recently with any black smoke at any RPM/load on diesels being a fail condition for the annual inspection in the UK. (Known as the 'MOT') On top of this... Pre-COVID, the price of petrol and diesel in the UK was around $6.40~ per US gallon. (£1.30~ per litre) Though electricity is more expensive here too, it's still only £0.24 per KW at a Supercharger ($0.33, though US Superchargers are pay per minute not per KW), and at home around £0.14 per KW ($0.19) depending on your area. Give or take, a decently efficient modern petrol/diesel car (40 to 50 mpg) will get around 100 miles for £10 ($13.81), whereas a Model 3 will get around 200 miles for the same price at a Supercharger and closer to 400 miles from charging at home. :)
Great vid. My only gripe is you glossed over the "do you have a place to charge at home". If you have electricity in your home, you can charge your car. I've been using a standard 110 outlet in my garage for almost a year and I love not having to go to a gas station... ever.
Another thing to consider is if your work location provides charging. Mine does and it's free, so I save around $200/month on fuel alone. My general recommendation is to only get an EV if you have access to charging on a daily basis, either at home or work.
Home or office charging makes owning an EV far easier for sure. People have done it using public chargers, but it takes a bit more planning and having one relatively near by or close to places you frequent makes it a lot easier.
What about increased wear and tear on electric vehicle suspension due to the excessive weight? I've seen repair bills of the Model X that could buy an entire combustion vehicle.
@Jeroen Also eco friendly EV's should be small cars and/or for short drives, which means smaller batteries, as mentioned in the video. Tesla is the opposite of this. I suspect that increased weight and accelerations make these "super cars" just as polluting as ICE's, less CO2, more microparticles (mostly from tires !), which would be worse in many urban areas where the main air pollution issue is often... micro particles !
With emissions we also have to remember it's not just CO2 and where a pollutant is released. Another reason to buy a electric car (mainly taking about a Tesla) is it's the safest car to be in when it comes to accidents, I put a very high monetary value on my families safety. How much is your family worth? Looking forward to getting either a Model y and/or a CyberUte here in Australia (in a very rural area) and electric will be far cheaper and more convenient than fossil fuel (can be difficult to fill up here, as well as expensive). Although just found out Caterham are here in Australia so the wife has said I can have one once I make over $2 million, luckily I invested in Tesla a while ago.
Not quite sure where you're getting that from, most US safety lists don't feature the Tesla since a wreck that could expose the battery to air would cause the whole car to go up in flames. I know one of the most frequent cars is usually a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord.
@M Bacon thank you. That's puts it into some perspective. I guess my biggest worry would definitely be the cells possibly combusting during a crash, but they've probably put a ton of money into a secure way to store them to avoid liability issues.
@@vishal-singh Thats changing and also many people have solar panels and directly charge at home. There have been several universities including MIT that have used the dirtiest sources of electricity in the comparisons and EV's are still considerably better.
One additional point. People constantly say, 'what about when I need to drive 1500 miles to xyz city? I say 'rent a car and put all the miles on someone elses vehicle whether you have an EV or an ICE.
Yes: Look up "duck curve". Not only is there capacity but EVs actually help evenn out the demand curve. The challenge operators have managing the grid is that there are huge peaks and valleys in electric demand, which is made worse by solar production during the middle of the day. When demand goes up as the sun goes down at 4-6pm they have to fire up generating plants that were sitting idle all day. Then when demand drops back down at 8-10pm those power generating stations get shut down again. It's very inefficient and costly to have these power stations that only run a few hours of the day. Having a more constant level of demand is more efficient than constantly firing up plants and shutting them down. As such: Home EV charging stations are set up to charge overnight when electric demand is at it's lowest (Many are even Internet connected and can get signals from the grid to know when the best time to charge is), and office/workplace EV chargers are typically charging when solar is at it's maximum production. This actually evens out the demand curve and makes it easier for grid operators to manage the supply of energy. Furthermore: Some EVs today (and more will in the future) have the ability to *export* power from their battery pack. So an EV plugged in can actually assist the grid during a period of high demand to help prevent rolling blackouts.
@@JeremyAkersInAustin Million dollar idea for a tech startup,: make a wifi-enabled EVSE that is synchronized with the grid output. During "idle" hours the EVSE charges at 2000 watts, when the peak solar output start coming onto the grid, the EVSE gets signalled and ramps up to 7600 watts, or any other wattage, as required. If you have tens of thousands EV's doing this, you could seamlessly smooth power output on demand. Such "smart" chargers could be eligible for rebates from power companies, and publicly installed units could let people charge for free, to make them enticing to install and use.
You don't even know why there were blackouts in CA last summer. A hint to you is that EVs won't impact the electrical grid at all there. Gasoline also needs electricity to pump, FYI.
I bought a bolt, drove for 3 years, then traded it in for a MX-5 RF GT. I bought the bolt for 3 reasons- my drive was 80 miles a day, Tax breaks, still quick. The bolt was quick- practical and ok-ish at handling, but in 3 short years I suffered 16% degradation and only getting worse- I also missed the sound of an engine and the fun of rowing through gears. A Co-worker has a Volt- first gen, he lost a cell bank at 34K miles and now again at 70K his car has gone into limp in mode and they are suspecting to replace the entire $11,000 battery- he might still be covered, but this tells me that these cars are going to become disposable after the warranty expires- not many people are going to plunk a $11,000 battery (17K in Bolt!) in a car that isn't even worth that much. We still aren't quite there with the tech, IMHO where we should be looking at is alternative fuels including CNG, Bio-Fuels, and Hydrogen because lithium, cobalt and graphene will eventually get so scarce that building a 80KWH battery would be wasteful and expensive. And while Tesla is making uber-fast cars- remember that is only one metric that makes a car fun, I have FAR more fun in my 181HP MX-5 than I did in my 400HP Challenger- and I had WAY more fun in my slower Abarth 500 than the Bolt EV. EV's are not the future- they are now relevant, but they are not a long term solution.
Except that electric cars typically have a 8 year 100k mile warranty or like Tesla have a 8 year unlimited mile warranty on the battery. So, your doomsday scenario about failing batteries doesn't exactly apply here.
@@redbaron6805 Think of it this way. If it were common to have to take your ICE car in to change the motor out every other year, would you be rushing to adopt the technology, even if it were covered by warranty? It's fairly common for motors to be changed and in some cases batteries (~60% of early S models needed the drive unit (E.g. motor) replaced before 60k miles, some multiple times). Even taking my car into a shop for the day is a HUGE inconvenience to say the least - I shudder at having to do it for any length of time. Just because something is free doesn't mean its inconvenience doesn't matter.
@@redbaron6805 Second hand. By the time the car hits 8 and the battery decides to take a dirt nap, the car is now scrap parts, unless you want to cough up $15,000- $30,000 for a new battery, And that if Tesla Is still making the cell for the car. We are not going to see 100 year old Tesla's like we see from ICE cars- nor will we even see a 500,000 mile, 20 year old EV. EV's are essentially cell phones- once your cell dies, might as well buy a new phone.
@@JWW855 I think diesel trucks should be a hybrid. It'd get rid of the problem where a lot of black smoke comes out of the exhaust when they need to accelerate quickly.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
And if you only need a car to travel from time to time, then you should buy a Delorean with a flux capacitor.
Very funny comment.
Especially good with the optional Mr. Fusion.
Ahahaha good one
Found the Dad jokester!
Nice one lol
Timestamps:
1. Cost 0:40
2. Convenience 3:53
3. Charging 6:32
4. Driving 8:17
5. Environment 10:05
Thank you
@@jimbomacgee3499 you’re welcome
1 year later....thanks Nolan. Hope you're doing well...
@@d.lawrence5670 yeah no problem, I’m doing pretty good
Thanks.
The math only stacks up in the US where petrol is sold as cheap as water. In the EU for instance, electric has a major lifetime running cost advantage.
I thought the price wasnt so bad until i remembered it was per liter!
But at the same time, a lot of people in europe live in apartments with often no parking space and don't have the option of charging their cars whenever they want.
@@Vertical690 Yay, public transport is good but. And rental cars. And, gasp, walking
That being the case why are e car sales so poor in Europe? Even after subsidies. And taxes that triple the cost of fuel. I like e cars and would love to own one. But 1, I don't have a driveway and 2, I can only afford $5000 to buy a car so even secondhand e cars are beyond me. And I'm not some gangsta salvage engineering genius like Rich Rebuilds!
God bless the u.s then, the land of the most free car enthusiast 🇺🇸
You're the reason why i'm still loving to learn about mechanical engineering, especially automotive engineering
Bruh. Same.
Big facts
@no post Why dont you try searching for a job in US or Europe?
For me, and probably many other young people the problem is we haven't settled for a long term house/apartment to install Level 2 chargers in.
@Not Hitler "I dont care about the environment to hell with mother nature!"
You should drop the "not" from your name.
That still isn't a problem. A lot of places have chargers now, so charge the car when you go shopping.
you don`t really need that, it`s just faster to charge with one.
Bjarne Olav Kjølstad I don't have a garage in my apartment, not even a outdoor outlet... I know they won't bother to install any, because mostly old people with no car or fossil cars live here
@@FSXgta ok, I charge with a outdoor outlet at home and a type 2 charger at work.
What keeps me from getting into purely electric cars is that I live in an apartment building. I am on the 3rd floor, facing away from an open air parking lot. There are no electrical outlets near the parking lot, and I'm not going to dangle a 300ft cord from my apartment window to the parking lot just to have some other tenant unplug my car cause he wanted a giggle.
I also wouldn't be able to charge my car at work because they don't have electrical access on the outside of the building. They also refuse to put in electric car chargers because not enough (literally 0) employees have electric cars to justify it.
Not to be that guy, but I refuse to sit and babysit my car for hours at a charging/fuel station just to make sure I have enough juice for a couple days.
Being on the poorer side makes electric only vehicles almost impossible to realistically own. For some people it's not a problem, and they have the ability to work around lack of charging support in their lives. For me, it's not practical until the infrastructure improves around me.
Your situation is quite common.
This is why electric hasn't taken over yet. Plus I'm not sure how far past 100k a electric would run.
Read the edit please.
I agree with you 100%, but wanted to let you know that once most EVs start charging, you can not simply unplug them. You have to use an app, key, or button inside the vehicle to remove the charger.
Edit: I didn't understand what you meant at the time. While no one would be able to unplug the car at the car itself, if you're using an extension cord; someone could easily unplug the car by unplugging the extension cord.
Oh yea thats unfortunate mate. Sister got lucky with her underground parking at her place and was able to get an outlet down there to charge nightly.
This isn't a plug for tesla (pun intended lol), but the superhcarging network may take care of you. We don't have a tesla (yet), but the supermarket where we do $95% of our grocery shopping had a ten stall supercharging network put in about a year ago. We go there at least once a week, and from people I have talked to it will get them from 0-80% (what tesla recommends your max be for every day use) in half an hour. I can easily swing that, should I choose to. The cost of the car is really what is holding me back lol. That and, aside from wanting one, our current vehicles are perfectly fine and paid off, costing nothing but standard maintenance and fuel.
$2 a gallon??? It's almost $2 a litre in the UK give or take...
Covid-19 made gas prices super low in USA.
Its $1.9 a gallon here in texas
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 1.45€/L in Greece(6.46$/gallon). Thats why we have max 1400cc cars here. We need 12€ every 100km (14.12$ every 62 miles) if its a small diesel like a fiat punto we need half the price.
Thats because yall don't have guns
BT DT even if it’s $2.50 which is like £2 that’s still 3.5litres compared to 1l in the uk. The equivalent in the uk would be about $7.50 a gallon
Apparently, Progressive only had one requirement for this video...
No whiteboard.😁
I actually just canceled my progressive insurance because they were charging me $600 more a year for my insurance. I was with them 8 years.....
@@Hallowsaw What are progressive insurance?
@@1300l It's an insurance company like GEICO
@@Hallowsaw I was with Geico, then State Farm, then Progressive, went over to Root, now back at Progressive. It pays to shop around for your car/home owner/renters insurance yearly.
@@AlGoYoSu I need to shop around too. It's just too easy to stick with one company.
Finally, a balanced objective and fair representation of the difference between owning an EV or ICE car, thank you
This was made when gas was $2 a gallon.
What is ICE supposed to stand for?
@@zechariahcameron3645 Internal Combustion Engine.
@@spacingguild thank you sir!
I think the more relevant question to ask in many cases would be "Should I buy a new(er) car?". And if you don't drive much, the answer is no. At least if what you have is reliable.
unless you do a lot of miles per day? maybe not... or you want to enjoy the comfort of a silent and fast/responsive commute.
@@AlexDubois they said if you don't drive much...
That's true if you don't value the increased performance, convenience and safety features that are more readily available on newer cars. Keeping an older car is pretty much always going to be more cost effective, but cars are getting better and adding new features all the time, and you need to decide if those factors tip the scales to determine that you are willing to spend more money on a newer car.
But I think you are right that a lot of people just default to buying a new car, when if they considered it logically, what they want would be satisfied at a cheaper price by buying an older one.
It also depends where you live whether an old car goes bad quickly. In St. John's, NL or Halifax, NS, cars rust very quickly because of the heavy use of road salt, and will deteriorate whether or not they are driven often. 7-10 years is usually the reliable lifespan. However, warm wintered Vancouver, BC has some of the oldest used cars in good condition, where a lightly driven and properly maintained car is still in great shape after 30+ years.
Must be a Toyota then
We bought our Model 3 in September 2019. Within a week I realized the massive convenience factor. I leave my garage every day with the equivalent of a full tank. Our other car is a 2019 Volvo XC90. In the 12 months of owning both we put 16,000 miles on the Tesla and about 5,000 on the Volvo. When the Volvo lease is up in November of 2021 it will turn into a Model Y and we'll be 2 EV home. We live at 8,000 feet above sea level in the Colorado Rockies....winter is not an issue.
it's like living at a gas station! Full tank every morning
And I'm also assuming that you don't have the same loss of power due to elevation with the Tesla....
@@Momo_8k how does elevation causes loss of power? legit don't know if it's a thing or your are joking
@@japalocoturbo Less air density => less fuel per combustion cycle => less power
That's why piston airplanes can't climb too high without a compressor.
@@japalocoturbo in an ICE vehicle, power comes from air and fuel. More of either one increases power. Higher elevations have thinner atmosphere, meaning less air enters combustion. Less air = less power. Naturally aspirated cars make less power and run slower times at elevation (Colorado) than at sea level.
The opposite occurs with forced induction (turbos and superchargers) where the main function of both are to introduce air into the engine. I don't have personal experience with forced induction at elevation, but those types of motors should not lose *as much* power compared to naturally aspirated cars.
Electric motors don't need air and fuel to operate. So they should produce the same amount of power at any elevation.
Non-scientific, but hopefully that's helpful. Reply if more clarification is needed.
"Let's assume both cars are trouble free for 4 years" you shouldn't have used a VW for this example then
Zoikes, I've got 1 year left 🤞
Why the heck is the American government giving tax breaks to people buying foreign cars? That is absolutely ridiculous!
VW is one of the best cars in the world. Sorry you Americans botch it up once it gets there :P
That's hilarious. I've owned several VWs. For each of the new ones, the first three years were needed to find and fix all the bugs and flaws. After that, it was smooth sailing for many miles. They are a PITA until you shake them down.
@@jonkirkwood469 VW are some of the finest cars out there.
$500 to install an 220 outlet NEXT to the panel? As an electrician, I am in the wrong area of the country to earn a buck.
This video says $500, Amazon says $500, every form I read said $500, then when I called my local electrician he quoted me $200. . .
Depends on where you live. Local labor rates, material costs. I can easily see it. With all the storm damage material supply is starting to be a real problem. I've seen wire cost go up as much as 50% in the last 6 months. Aluminum wire costs have skyrocketed to the point where it's no longer cost effective to run at any length and size whereas it used to be cheaper than copper for larger sizes just a year ago. Material and labor markets make a big difference on the cost.
We paid $250 to get a NEMA 14-50 installed right next to our electrical panel here in Texas.
Yar Nunya Yar is right. Reason: Aluminum cold flows over times; copper doesn't. If you don't know the implications of that, ask an older electrician.
oneselmo Um, no. The issue with aluminum is oxidation. Us an oxidation inhibitor such as NoAlOx and aluminum is perfectly fine to use.
You’re the reason I’m going back to school to learn more.
why go to school if you want to learn?
The Vibe wow. Way to summarize the entire American education system.
I mean, it's true. I dropped out of university because I wanted to learn more. Now if you want a certification of some kind, maybe because you want a job in the field that you're learning in, then yeah you need to go back to school.
Other than that though, you can learn just about anything you could want to know for free on the internet, much of that here on RUclips.
@@natalyasparrow6748 yeah, go to college to qualify for jobs, not to learn. As you said, everything you need to learn is free on the internet, short of PHD level education.
Ppl are telling you to don't go to school to learn..
Come on guys, i'm happy for him. Ppl who complaim about go to shcool to learn are the ones who can do it.. who want but can't wish to go to shcool.
I was a traditional car enthusiast that only would support combustion cars until my girlfriend got her plug in hybrid (15 Ford Fusion Energi) and now can see what's so great about electric cars. My next daily driver car is undoubtedly going to be electric in some fashion.
“You should never spend money for less convenience”
But also Miata :D
You don't buy an EV for convinience, you do it for everybody else.
@@Tore_Lund Nobody should feel morally obligated to buy something that, under current circumstances, is only marginally better for the environment. Until full renewables/nuclear becomes reality, we need to make EVs more convenient to convince people to switch.
@Patrick No you don't. Why do you think there is a tax Rebate, so more people can have fun?
@@specialopsdave I Agreed on that, just Rolling out EVs without a similar goverment incentive to clean Up the Grid, does very little, to reduce emissions. Hopefully the US Will get back on track with the Paris Accord, so in 15 years, driving an EV Will be the on!y sane choice, both financialy and environmentally.
@Patrick Growing Up in Europe in the 70', I must admit, that I feel embarressed today, using at least two sundays every month to protest nuclear power since kindergarten. But that was the sentiment then. Actually today, Europeans are close to 50% approval of nuclear, but nobody wants Them in their own town. Still the Countries that have plenty of reactors, like France, export to the rest of Europe, So we are using it, while looking the other way.
5 reasons why I'm gonna stick to my 96 Accord until it disintegrates.
you will disintegrate first
Ehh, i made the switch from my 96 camry to a new car because I watched crash test videos, and those 90s cars are pretty scary haha new cars are light-years ahead in safety, that's my only motivation to get newer cars.
My 93 sentra was literally a coffin on wheels. Super scary crash tests results.
@@NoName-gv6nm ill write that in you coffin, at 100 mhp your super safe car wont protect you
@@omegarugal9283 How often do you drive 100 MPH?
Giggling. 88 Camry owner.
P.S. Manual. 6 cylinder.
And ...No stinkin' airbags. Fuel filter not located in the G.D.M.F. - wait for it - GAS TANK. No scan device or board for me to be fleeced because of it.
Regarding the "EV's run on coal" argument, the nice thing with EV's is that when you upgrade the grid to use more gas/hydro/solar/wind/nuclear power you automatically upgrade all the vehicles charging off it at no cost to the consumer. With ICE doesn't matter what you do with the grid ICE still pollutes exactly the same.
EVs, even when running on fossil fuels, use that energy more efficiently than ICE vehicles. Especially when you include the energy used transporting gasoline and diesel in huge tanker trucks
@@ThomasBomb45 Plus extraction of oil, transporting of oil, refining oil. All take a colossal amount of energy.
In the UK we have several green energy suppliers.
According to a donut media video I watched, over time, even on our dirtiest energy source, the carbon footprint of electrics us smaller. Initially though the production of these batteries has a huge carbon footprint, and other environmental/ ethical issues.
@@ThomasBomb45 coal isn't transported?
Living in Canada I’ve always wondered what the batteries would be like in our constant -30C weather.
Tesla Y has a heat pump so maybe this solves the problem with cold climates.
Dmitry Drozdov free perpetual heat! Cool!!
Wait...
Isnt it worse to find a charging point if you travel between the cities?
@@Welcometofacsistube No just less juice spent on heat.
@@christianbro2 Apparently they're out there on highways but if you go back roads then no.
Just the electricity used in the refinery to produce a gallon of gas is about 7 kwh. This is always produced by the cheapest way possible. Over 90% of the time this is coal and onsite at the refinery. That is typically more electricity than an EV uses to drive 30+ miles.
I heard Texas refineries use a lot of wind power, hope thats true! I use wind for my home power plan, 9.9¢ /kWh
@@bikesqump Yeah, mining coal in Texas is expensive, and wind power is nearly as cheap as importing. Plus, these oil/energy companies are starting to invest in renewables anyways in preparation for when fossil fuels go the way of the dodo.
4 years later, I still can’t believe this is a conversation. Even with the government intervention basically forcing people to buy EVs they don’t get popular. They are too expensive and too inconvenient. Running costs are low, but cars that will only last 6 years means that during their life they are cheap but you have to change them very often. I drive a 1996 Mercedes. Great car, almost no serious reliability issues and I’ll probably won’t change it for 5 more years or so, until EVs can become dirt cheap or last for 10-15 years they’ll never compete. They can be a tech bro or celebrity car but never a working man’s car.
Who told you they only last 6 years?
Great vid. Who woulda thought, some of the most well rounded advice around EV and ICE is from a guy who’s a an actual car enthusiast
I've got a 2017 Chev Volt, my boss has a model X Tesla, and my daughters friend has a Chevy Bolt. My second vehicle is a new Nissan Frontier pickup. I'm only charging the Volt on 120V and I'm at around 80% electric. (It has a 53 mile electric range before going to gasoline.) Most of the EV miles are local, and the gas miles are on a road trip. My boss uses his Tesla a lot around town, but uses his gasoline SUV when doing road trips. My daughters friend only has the Bolt, and attends local college, so he's fine with an EV.
FYI - when I road trip, I usually rent a cheap sedan so I don't put tons of miles on my vehicles and my insurance gives me a break for low miles. I'm hoping more and more people go EV, so gas stays cheap when I have to drive my pickup. Lots of choices in vehicles out there!!!
well maybe.. It's also a matter of supply and demand. I work in the fuels business, and our refineries price fuels by what the demand is. My segment is pipelines, much smaller than our refinery group, and when demand is low and refinery margins are low, our little business can make better profits than several multi-billion dollar refineries. And if they try to make less product, their efficiency drops, so even if they sell it for more, they don't maintain their profit. (I've got 35+ years in the industry) So, if you are looking at wholesalers or retailers that can "gouge" ,I agree with you, but that doesn't apply to the entire process stream.
We're a single car household and our pure EV works perfectly for us, we do have a home EVSE though. Rapid charging on journeys is actually quite fun.
You buying a solar car though?
Richard Honor We bought a 2021 Kona ev two months ago, and have been using it as our daily driver ever since. I've kept track of our driving, and as near as I can figure, we've used the equivalent of $550 cad of gas to go 4,300 k. Our 2000 Vitara hasn't been driven for over three weeks (it gets app. 25mpg). Because our power company is a public utility, it is able to carry out a promotion of free charging at their 50kWh d.c. fast chargers for who knows how long. They are just starting to upgrade the chargers to 100kWh units. When we charge at home, our electricity costs app. $0.09 per kWh, and to charge from zero to 100% costs us around $5.75cad. That gives us a range of 428kilometers without charging. We have absolutely no buyer's remorse. 🤗🤗
We only have a Model 3 LR AWD, and it's fantastic! Had it since the end of '18. I only have a 15A plug in my garage, but it's enough especially if I can charge at work sometimes.
So far I've done about 1 year and over 20 000 miles on an EV as my only car, and I would like to point out, that a lot of the things Jason lists are very relevant but also case dependent. If you live outside the US do your own calculations. Gasoline is ridiculously cheap in the US compared to the EU for instance, which tilts the cost analysis for the benefit of the EV. As for road trips, this summer did my first 2000 mile EV Road trip and I loved how cheap it was to drive as well as the convenience of sleeping in the car with the aircon on through the night. But here in Finland we have a very good charging network so I can drive just about wherever I feel like. Again, do your study on how good it is where you live. How about business trips? At some point you'll have to stop for lunch or dinner, and that is when you plug in. Some 30 minutes of charging will take you far on fast chargers.
One tip I do have if you consider an EV - range is king. Consider how often you drive long trips and size your battery accordingly.
Finally, there are a few reasons I would go back to ICE. One is for the sound that a nice sports car makes. Another is for the handling and steering feedback, which is often considerably worse on EV's. Third reason is for towing. While the torque of the EV is great, you can't beat the fact that the ICE engine gets only more effective when you load it more so your relative mileage is actually often improved (when looking at consumed fuel / cargo weight that is moved around), where an ev will lose a significant portion of its range. And in many cases there might be no towing option for it at all.
" this summer did my first 2000 mile EV Road trip and I loved how cheap it was to drive as well as the convenience of sleeping in the car ...... " --- Sounds awful, can't imagine when I would go on a vacation where the plan was to sleep in the car.
@@davidmorrow4195 I would sleep in my old Camry Wagon. but I also agree with the first comment, the ‘19 Tesla Model 3 feels weird to drive, exactly like a GTA 5 car. It’s like fast off the line, but once you go 60, it feels like it’s just like the car is saying, “what, you still want more? 🙄fine.” And it’s kinda floaty to be honest without any weight in the front. Maybe to some people that’s fun, but all you hear is the whoosh from the road and honestly it’s a lot louder than I was hoping. And the autopilot mode beeps at you to keep your hands on the wheel so I don’t see the point. Just an overall disappointment in my opinion. But hey, you can make the turn signals make fart sounds in the settings, no joke. (Who is that even for???)
@@scottoleson1997 just rest your hand on the steering... I let it sort of rest by my thumb and you're good to go. Autopilot is the best! Love it for highway, traffic or if I'm just on a normal road, but need to take my eyes off the road for whatever reason.
@MadeInFinland "Another is for the handling and steering feedback, which is often considerably worse on EV's" I drive a Model 3 LR AWD and a BMW M2. Even with the M2 in Sport Mode, the Model 3 has much better/tighter feeling feel. Obviously if you want feedback (i.e. you're at the track) then that's a whole different ball of wax, but 99.9% of the people who buy these cars won't see, not to mention drive at the track.
@@brois841 not 99.9 … sorry. It’s more than one in 1000 drivers and enjoys a good handling vehicle. Not something that hugs the road because of the weight of the battery pack, but something agile and light.
I agree with you! It's all about convenience! I drive a 3 cylinder gas car, I took a road trip from the Midwest to FL, and I drove 1,250 miles. I paid no more than $64 for gas plus I still have a half of a tank in the car. It took me 18 hours for the trip. If I had an electric car it would of taken about 24 hours per Tesla's charging guide. If I had to pay for electric, per Telsa cost calculation it would cost me $97.
How on earth would it cost $97? At $2 a gallon, that's only 26 mpg. My 2005 Taurus gets that. There must be some error in the information.
Must be a Mitsubishi Mirage?
@@soiceyboy33 my guess is Smart Car
@@soiceyboy33 and only 40 mpg
@@soiceyboy33 It could be a Mitsubishi Mirage or Koenigsegg's Gemera. 🤔
Always appreciate an objective look, thank you!
Well for us, we went to a BMW i3 about 4 years ago. It cost more, it's the only car in the household and we sometimes need to do long trips to see family so it was primarily point 5 (Environment) that caused us to make the switch. I haven't burnt anything in the last 4 years and I've loved every trip as it's great fun to drive. I'm an ex-petrol head and bought my first VW Beetle at age 12, so I've always been fascinated by cars in many forms.
Why did you choose the i3? Just curious, the i3 always seemed ugly and overpriced to me.
with electric you must take into consideration how your electricity is made - those are your emissions. Simply look up the same info as in the video and calculate CO2/Watt.
@@driverpsyche Well, the grid changes over time. But I'd argue the real boost for the environment when buying an EV is supporting the transition by paying money for such a car. In other words, even if the electricity is not fully green right now, you have contributed towards green mobility in the future.
@@driverpsyche watch the video. It is explained that overall your emissions are almost always lower.
dreamintv don’t forget to include the carbon dioxide emitted in refining oil into gasoline.
Yes, yes and yes. I basically have the "cheap" version of Jason's stable: an e-Golf (bought new 6 months ago) and an Na8 Miata (and my girlfriend has a Civic). The Miata may be the fun car, but the e-Golf is also a pretty fun vehicle, thanks to instant torque and the Golf chassis. I have often read that an electric car can only be a second vehicle because of the limited range. In actuality, it really is the first car as the cost of operation, comfort and convenience are the best. I never even used the rapid charger and I don't even plan to. I bought the car knowing full well its pros and cons and I knew that for longer distances, we would simply use the Civic. But for suburban driving, even the errands to go to the other side of town (up to 100 km in total), the Golf is the way to go. If we ever need to change the Civic for a bigger vehicle, a RAV4 prime would be high on the shopping list. As for noise, let's be real: most cars on the road don't even sound good. If you drive a Mustang GT as your daily, good for you, but if your daily is a Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3, etc, you won't miss the noise, but you will enjoy the absence of vibrations. As for shifting gears, yes, a good manual is fun, but one-pedal driving is just another kind of fun that is also legitimate.
Don't buy electric vehicle because it's not a Toyota Celica.
Tell that guy to clean up his garage
🤣🤣🤣
Sweet, 3 on the tree? 😂
@@humphrey212 LOL
The reason the guy doesn't like electric is because he doesn't want to change his intro... "rrrev up your engine!"
One thing worth mentioning, petrol cars are more fuel efficient when driving on the highway (higher speeds), but electric cars are the other way around (as their engine revs way higher on highway, electric cars not having a gear box).
Also, some other points to take into view: scarcity of the materials used in batteries (and the way they are mined), also the grid would probably just collapse, if everyone would suddenly switch to an electric car.
Your theory is a bit off. Cars are more efficient at slower speeds due to air resistance. The faster a car travels, the less efficient it is, gas or electric. The reason combustion cars have a higher MPG rating is due to start and stop traffic in the cities. Every time a gasoline car stops, the momentum energy gets turned into heat by the brakes. Electric cars capture this energy back by letting the momentum spin the electric motor turning into a generator that chargers the batteries, hence they use regenerative motor braking.
And the grid would not collapse with electric cars as the grid is designed to handle peak use which is only a few hours a day. Typically, peak hours are only 8 hours a day 5 days a week, while off peak is 16 hours a day 5 days a week and 24 hours on weekends and holidays.
During these off peak hours, power plants are idled or taken offline. There is a huge amount of surplus generating capacity off peak and we have the ability to charge tens of millions of electric cars with basically nothing more than basic routing upgrades to the grid.
@@redbaron6805 I meant petrols use less fuel on highway as in city, because of their higher gearing the engine runs on lower RPM
Also, I was at Bryce Canyon and Zion this summer-both of which are way off the beaten path-and lots of Teslas were at those parks. I’m not sure how convenient charging was, but it surely didn’t stop folks from using electric cars way out in the country!
Some use camp site power hookups, will do it one day
Sasquatch 2001 oh man never thought of that but they have 220s there. What a great idea!
Most major national parks and such have charging in nearby tourist stops and towns. Its really little places like rural Tennessee where I can't take my model 3. I was there for a wedding at an AirBnB and it just wouldn't have worked. I swapped with my buddy or would have rented for this trip, as my model 3 SR+ is the only car my gf and i have. This was the only trip in 20,000 miles that we didn't feel comfortable with.
Bought my Nissan Leaf in 2011, paid $32,000 cash, no tax on EV in Washington State, made ~100kMiles. NO maintenance during little then a decade -- CHANGED TIRES ONLY -- once !!. Driving 100k on an ICE requires 5000 gallons of gas for regular 20mpg ICE car. Let's multiply 5000 gl * $3.5/gl = $17500!! My Leaf even has original auxiliary 12VDC battery that constantly charged by original build-in 1 sq. ft solar panel. Best commuter in the World.
I'm a petrol head, but not having to stop at gas stations would save me not only time, but also stop me from impulse buying slim jims...
Yep...
But you have to realize that on a road trip, you don’t wanna run the car below 20% so that means you have to stop ~ every 150 miles so you can fill up to 80% which is what’s recommended, but even at a Tesla level 3 supercharger, it takes about an hour and 15 mins to get from 20-50 miles up to 200. Does that sound like saving time or fun? A 10 hour trip going 700 miles becomes 13 or more if it’s not a Tesla brand Charger. Because when my dad and I tested a 2019 Model 3, it was always super far to each charger so the car tells you only go 65mph. I don’t want that to be the future of road trips. No thanks, I do like to go fast.
@@scottoleson1997 Where did I say anything about road trips, and why just assume someone watching this video isn't aware of this vehicles range, charging network, and Tesla's recommendations? I mean you're pretty much just repeating the cons that were mentioned. Why?
If it upsets you that people other than San Francisco's finest are interested in this car, perhaps you shouldn't read the comments.
Edit: If you think this is the future of the electric car, you are sorely mistaken. You are witnessing the genesis, and the tech is only going to get better, go farther, and be more commonplace.
@@InuranusBrokoff Few things annoy me more in youtube comments than irrelevant replies that attempt to argue against points that I am not making. I have never seen someone address that kind of reply as beautifully as you have done here. I commend you.
yes you can do a 4 hour journey without stopping at a station with an electric car saving you money and time. I think most EV's do 215 mile range. 211mpg where as petrol cars only do 45mpg
@@steve00alt70 Yes, but most petrol cars also carry around 20 gallons.
No whiteboard? Dislike
(I kid I kid. Just joking, I'd never dislike EE).
Jonathan Matthews there is a white wall
My son traded his 2014 Mustang GT for a 2022 Tesla model 3P. Considering his 60 months of $427.00 payments, after subtracting the $300.00 averaged GT monthly for premium fuel, his out-of-pocket monthly cost is $127.00. Plus, his power bill adds around $3.17 in electricity for every 100 miles driven, ...and his Tesla is much quicker.
Great job! All those things plus 0-60 in an EV is second to none
Ben Sullins Yes, who cares about top end speed? When you're city driving, it's a race from one red light to the next. It's all about starting torque. As for maximum speed, some cop bored out of his skull sitting in a radar trap sees YOU blow by at 120mph+ and it's Yee Hah!, another high speed chase, and he gets to meet his ticket quota the easy way. I wave as I drive by doing 70 in a 60 zone because my ev just blew the doors off him up to 50mph, so he was embarrassed and cranked it up to show me how fast he was. 🤗
@@oneselmo Most accidents and deaths occur based on the driving you just described yourself doing.
Andrew Boehmer Nope! The most dangerous accidents are at intersections. You've got a green light and some entitled texting goof t-bones you as he/she runs the red light. Deadly multi vehicle accidents slamming cars into pedestrians or bus stops. There's lots of dash cam videos on you tube to educate you.
@@oneselmo You are factually incorrect, some videos you saw don't prove anything
That's an argument only valid to fanatics. 99% of drivers couldn't care less if their car gets to 60 in 5, 7 10 or 2 seconds. When you drive away you're not on a race track and when you get on the freeway, many times, there is enough traffic to prevent you to even accelerate that fast. So, this argument is to most irrelevant when choosing a car.
220v (level2) is a super easy install, especially if you already have an electric dryer or stove. You can plug in directly to those outlets if you buy a charger off Amazon or Ebay. About 150 to $300 USD.
Nice summary. We are taking our Tesla to the north rim of the grand canyon in a few days. Plenty of chargers along the way, and hotels with chargers.
I just got back from north rim and saw a bunch of Tesla’s 😀 have fun!
@@atavanH Cool, thanks.
Just remember that the closest Tesla Superchargers are 150 miles (St. George, UT) and 120 miles (Page, AZ). Any chargers closer are 16kW (or less for what are in campgrounds). If you want to see Zion or Bryce (or about anything else) you need to plan ahead (but if you own a Tesla you are probably used to that).
@@edweeks6423 Thanks. We are staying in a hotel in Kanab that has a charger.
Here in norway there is no doubt that electric is the way to go. They are cheaper, electricity is way cheaper then fuel with an avarge price of 1,5$ pr liter and they can drive in bus lanes. There are more benefits other then that aswell.
sweden has crazy fuel prizes aswell, AND high taxes, because we have so many laze people that wont work...
Those high fuel prices are intentionally made insanely expensive to make people not want to pay for it.
@@nealp885 yeah thats what they make you think. the prizes are high because the government wants to get money, first, they take some of your salary, then you have to pay to own a house, then u have to pay five different costs to own a car, then they tax the electricity, then they take some more of ur money when u buy something. they just spread it out so it doesnt look so bad. in reality its around 80% of our money that goes to the government. but why? so they can play with thier rockets and nuclear weapons and of course pretend to be good for the enviroment and build a bunch of wind farms when nuclear is better in all ways.
@@lucasvanhamburg4937 What a bunch of crazy drivel. The government of Norway is taxing you to build rockets and nuclear weapons...???
You need to get your head examined.
@@redbaron6805 I was not talking specifically about norway, but they do build rockets. And they are member of NATO.
Nobody talks about safety. I know me and my wife don’t want to have to stop in unknown dimly lit areas for hours to charge.
Good point.
They are getting better but I do (as the video says) plan my trips thinking of where I am stopping.
Drove my Chevy Bolt 1000 miles moving from Texas to Florida, no problem if it's a rare trip. Every other day of the year, being able to charge at home is SO much better than going to the gas station every week or two
Went from a Subaru WRX to a Tesla model 3 SR+ and no regrets! Love my model 3, but I can see why electric is not for everyone! My weekly commute is about 200 miles and when I get home I just charge it in my garage!
When I take a longer road trip a have a Tesla charging station 10 minutes from my house at a mall, so I need to charge up quicker I leave the car there for 20 minutes while I walk around the mall.
I must say for someone that has driven manual his intere life that I do miss stick shift occasionally!
Funny story I’ve got an 18 wrx myself and would love a model 3 or even a coupe if they release one anytime soon. I love the turbo and awd but have wanted electric for some time now. I live right down the road from work, have superchargers being installed at the local target a mile or two away from me right now, and love the minimalism and less maintenance that comes with them.
I have to chip in as another Subaru guy. I still have my 03 WRX, she sits pretty in the garage and I take her out about twice a month. Daily since April is a Model S. They are both very enjoyable cars, in strikingly opposite ways. My advice is keep them both and enjoy accordingly.
@@alex86devapath as someone who's also driven manual most of my life, I must say I don't miss stick at all, especially in traffic. I hate automatics even more now... so clunky.
7:04 level 2 charger installation in older homes may not be possible without upgrading the breaker box greatly multiplying the cost.
That claim is actually false. Just because you install a L2 charger doesn't mean your panel has to be upgraded. You can install a L2 charger and just run it at a lower current. Instead of 32A or 40A, you can charge at 20A or even 15A. When electric cars charge is mostly at night, when rest of the power hungry equipment like stoves, ovens, coffee makers, toasters and microwave ovens are not in use.
If you have a breaker box that can't supply a 50 amp circuit, your breaker box is probably a fire risk. If your panel can run an electric stove, oven, or dryer, it can run an EVSE.
@@KJfourIPS That is false. The car can be set to charge at a set current and you can use an aftermarket J1772 charger. That charger can be set to whatever Amps you choose, 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A, etc.
There is no requirement to use a 50A circuit unless you want to max out the L2 charging. You can easily use a 30A dryer outlet and charge at 24A. Under NEMA/NEC rules, you have to de-rate any circuit by 20% you are using over 2 hours.
The car however can charge at any current level from basically 2A to 48A.
Besides having range anxiety and hating to babysit an EV car at charging stations for up to an hr and the lack of infrastructure everywhere, I’d be going crazy thinking that every time I’m fast-charging my car I’m speeding up the battery degradation. And also if I ever risk running out of juice, the ONLY solution out of that is a tow truck.
With an ICE, I know if I ren out of gas (which is extremely rare with the vast number of gas stations) I can pull over and hitch a ride to a gas station, buy a gas can and bring gas back to my immobilized vehicle. For now I’m content with the ICE vehicles flexible lifestyle.
It’s not like I change the oil or the engine/transmission breaks down often. People buying EVs make it sound like an ICE vehicles just starts falling apart left and right even if you take care of it. It can go for years before any major failures. lol
We're a two car family, and BOTH are electric. I do long journeys all time time and never really find it inconvenient, yes you have your stops dictated a little more but the time stopping en-route isn't really much more than with IC.
@Yar Nunya I fully appreciate that, what I'm referring to is the stop time in total. If stopping purely to fill up with gas then get on your way again ASAP is your thing then it's a lot quicker. I like to use the bathroom every now and then and get a cup of coffee, and by the time I've done that and got back to the car it's taken on 80% charge without me having to stand over it.
Now, where my argument falls down ( and many other EV advocates' ) is when the trip each way is less than a couple of hours. The normal argument is that you should stop anyway for safety so taking a charge doesn't take any more time than is safe. However if that safe stop is at the destination and you'll be driving back home afterwards, plus there's no destination charger then you have an un-necessary stop on the way back. This is what I'll have tomorrow when I drive a 140 mile each way trip, so I'm going to have to stop half way on the return leg to charge where in an IC car I could safely have done both legs without needing to take a rest break. This is something I'm happy to do as the other benefits easily outweigh this inconvenience.
@@iPeel I agree. When you have to use 45-60% of your car's range to reach a destination without a charger, and the trip isn't long enough to warrant a bathroom or proviant break, it becomes a slight inconvenience. When travelling further than the car's range in a day, charging speed is paramount to reduce inconvenience. With a slow charging EV, it will take a noticeable amount of waiting time (20+ minutes). But in the best case (Tesla), it's still a minor inconvenience - yet I personally think it's outweighed by the benefits.
Worst car scenario for an EV is a trip with lots of ~10 mile cold start drives in Canadian/Alaskan/North Scandinavian winter.
i really like that you tell us both the negatives and positives because there is nothing perfect :)
This is the best HONEST EV/ICE video. It is 100% true you don’t understand how awesome it is to have a full battery every morning until you get a plug in. Charging at home is MORE convenient than buying gas!
For me the test drive was decisive. Loved how electric vehicle drive, so got one. A "cheap" one, of course, but one nonetheless.
Good points in the video though.
I had a fully electric then had to go back to gas for a while, it's hard to describe the frustration because technically they had basically the same power specs but gas is just... laggy? It's that minor delay between your foot hitting the pedal and the gas hitting the engine that just kinda wears on you after you've had electric power, ya know?
You take it for granted. I did a lot of "perilous maneuvers" at the beginning because I thought that every car was as responsive as mine at the lights, during a start and stop, in roundabouts.. Now I know that only actual "fast cars" can keep up with the responsiveness.
@@riccardopiccinini666 lol yes! It took me a LONG time to remember to leave extra room for gas cars to shift gears
@Yar Nunya Not following your claim here. Most Turbo gasoline cars are 4 cylinder and the peak torque happens high in the RPM range. Diesel cars have some lower end torque but none have peak torque available at 0 RPM like electric cars.
Thanks for a clear, concise breakdown of the pros and cons of EV's. No EV fanboy swooning, and no V8 (Because 'Murica) nonsense, either. EV acceptance will boil down to infrastructure and EV density in a particular area for those that require that infrastructure to operate their EV's. Where I am, the nasty winters really eat into range, and charging stations are fewer. When I retire in a couple years to the USA Southwest, I will definitely be in an EV for daily use with a gas-fed toy or two for the joy of shifting. Solar panels on the roof are part of that plan as well, and will lessen the footprint even more.
According to a report released by Volvo, all things considered from battery manufacturing to elictricity production, you would have to drive an electric car 90 thousand miles to break even with a gas powered car. So, there's that.
Consumer Reports disagrees, and they aren't trying to sell you a car.
@@SpottedSharks Volvo makes both! That's what makes it interesting. They were comparing apples to apples. I'm sure consumer reports has their agenda too.
Glad to see that EVs are improving. However, there is one quibble I have in comparing an EV to ICE: the overall life of the vehicle. A well-engineered and properly maintained ICE vehicle can remain functional for multiple decades. Many EVs I'm seeing need total battery replacement around the 10 or 15 year mark. Given the bulk of the EV's emissions cost overall stems from the resources and energy required to build those battery packs, this means the lower emissions in the back end is canceled out as you need to make more batteries (or entirely new vehicles) to replace those that are ending their service lives. Obviously, this will improve with better engineering, technology, and developing methods to recycle the various components, but for now I'm sticking to ICE.
One of the biggest advantages I see in EV is that you are moving the combustion away from people. Vehicles are a huge source of pollution in cities so by reducing combustion (and brake wear) in cities that will improve health.
He forgot about the fact of where and how those batteries are made, then getting rid of those batteries after their life.
actually he did not. he has a whole video dedicated about it
@@jimboTTT - Well, actually, in this video, which the OP was referring, he did.
Even in that video you cite, he glossed over the recycling or other damage to the environment for getting rid of huge EV batteries. These EV batteries are generally NOT renewable.
You have one life, I have driven well designed, well-engineered cars for years, many times these have delivered in so many so many different ways, enabling me to travel large distances safely for work and returned to be with my family. in comfort without wondering if there was any doubt that in most cases 1 tank of fuel would be sufficient to the trip. The new way of driving taking huge diversions with long (by comparison) times to get enough fuel to maybe have to repeat this again and all of time behind the wheel watching a large computer screen in the centre of your dash.I am alive today to a large degree by keeping my attention ahead and using peripheral vision, and of course the mirrors. my personal thought is that watching any screen in a vehicle is not a good idea, experts I think agree judging by the laws of driving behaviour, i.e phones, books or eating whilst driving an offence. Yet this screen devours your attention to the extent that whilst trying to save the world you have every chance of ending the life and a family's world at every time you spend with your eyes on that screen working out if or when you will be able to reach a destination. get a train ,, if you can, or work from home. Whatever way you look at these vehicle's that's not enjoyable.
No one stares at the screen while driving a Tesla. It's not distracting at all.
@@SpottedSharks Its still a good point. Keep attention on the road. There are too many entertainment gadgets being dumped into cars. Might as well hire a driver since you're not driving. Oh wait self driving cars. Meh. No. Too much automation.
No one ever seems to mention how much gas people use up letting their ICE car warm up long enough to defrost or defog the windshield in winter. Nowhere near the range loss on an EV but it is still there, especially in very cold climates in winter.
There is no range loss on EVs or plug-in hybrids if you heat them before unplugging
I love my BoltEV. Charge for free off my excess solar power. Blows by all the cars and pickups driving around slow trying to get better milage....
Can confirm. Just bought a 2017 Bolt Premium on Wednesday and haven't stopped smiling :D
I don't have solar, but I can charge at work for free at least.
I live in Rome, I don't own a garage. A Renault Zoe costs 32k euros, my old c2 costs me 1000 euros per year in gasoline. Why should I switch to electric? Considering that now a big diesel car costs around 20k. They are doing it wrong, not enough incentives for ev and not enough disincentive for ice.
Often people make an arguement concerning the environment effects of manufacturing batteries. You didn't mention that aspect.
He touched on it, towards the end. No real details, but it was mentioned.
He did mention it a bit quickly, but the entire footprint of electric cars, including manufacturing the car and the battery is still cleaner than a gas car in most states. Also keep in mind that the chart he is using is from 2015, and the chart has moved even more in favor of EV's in 2020 due to massive phase out of coal power in the USA..
@@redbaron6805 what about the cost from mining rare earth element? The environment impact is even worse
ramadhanisme,
No it’s not.
@@ramadhanisme7 EV's don't really have much rare earths if any. Even the batteries are mostly Nickel, along with Aluminum, Copper and Graphite. Lithium and Cobalt make up a small fraction of the total.
In regards to resistance heating reducing range in electric cars, it's worth pointing out that the Model Y uses a much more efficient heat pump system (which I know you know, as you did a video on it), and thus doesn't suffer much of a penalty from operating in cold weather, especially if you have it plugged in and set a departure time, which allows it to prep the battery for maximum efficiency, if I'm not mistaken.
What I've heard from people who have owned EVs and gone back to ICE is that EVs are a lot of extra work and planning.
For charging, it is also worth considering charging stations at places like grocery stores. For the stores with fast chargers, you can do pretty well while you're doing something you might do anyway. Sometimes with a better parking spot than you would otherwise have.
Some stores have free level 2 charging as well. Which lessens the pain of not having charging in an apartment.
no oil + no food no cloths no nothing to buy at the store yep sounds good lets make the switch
Great video, as always. One small request: Can you include Canada as much as possible when giving information about the USA so as to cover all of North America? That also means adding metric units, but that's a good thing anyway. Thanks!
Considering Metric is superior in every possible way, and the fact that the rest of the world (roughly 7 Billion people) uses metric, it surprises me that anyone (let alone our awesome EE host here) would use US Customary Units as their sole measurement system for RUclips videos like these.
The only reason I am not buying an electric is because we do not need to replace our car and by the time we do the chances are autonomous transportation will have taken over and I will not need to own a car at all. Our current 10 year old car only has 31,000 miles on it. We bought it a year old as a lease return and have only put 14,000 on it since then. And we travel even less now that the wife is retired the car only moves about 10km a month. Makes no sense to buy a new car. And for how little we drive I'm not worried about our carbon footprint at all. Our little garden offsets more lol
Great video, thanks! I would like to see more information on the manufacturing / total carbon footprint of ICE vs EV, emissions is only one environmental component.
The total carbon footprint of ICE cars will always be far higher than EV's. The additional emissions during manufacturing of an EV are offset typically within 12 to 18 months. Over 90% of lifetime emissions of a typical car comes from burning fuel. Barely 5% to 10% comes from manufacturing.
Side note about the eGolf and the Fiat 500e: They are fun, and relatively cheap; but even as an avid electric fan that sub 100 mile range was worrying. Logically I knew they had far more range than I would need 90% of the time, but when you get on the highway with the AC on and see that range meter dropping almost 3 miles for every mile you're going it's unsettling.
I think the newer eGolf's have more range, but don't quote me on that. The one I test drove was just over 100 miles.
The eGolf is just like the gas version 4 door Golf. The 500e is just like the gas Fiat. That's the problem though, neither was designed to be an EV. They're basically conversions. Well done ones, but it's still better to design a vehicle from the ground up to be an EV.
Buying a car that you can use only for driving around corners is useless. Imagine petrol car with 10l tank. Even if you´d have a petrol station in your courtyard, id would become annoying.
Even if you don´t need it, it´s better to have it and not use it, than need it and don´t have it.
@@Morpheus-pt3wq All depends on your setup. If you only drive 20 to 30 miles a day and charge it every night. A short range EV could work fine for your needs. Some people have been perfectly happy with a 500e or a Spark, or even the iMiev.
I must say ur the most honest RUclipsr out there, I’m tired of these pro ICE cars only who demonize EVs religiously.. for the sake “old is best” or “batteries are more harmful” a lot of them don’t even know batteries can be 1. Recycled 2. Repaired (don’t need to swap it),
3. Last a very long time and have adequate warranty to the point people usually sell it before anything happens (I’m planning to keep mine as long as possible).
But kudos to you, you have given both ice and ev justice and told it exactly how it is.
I’ve had my model y for 8 mounths now and I’m saving anywhere between $4-5k per year in petrol alone (then comes service etc ). Like u said I never ever think about petrol starions cause I have always plenty of. Charge and only plan for that once or twice long trip per year (I live in Aus). And let’s face it when ur on holidays ur not really in a rush u can spare 20min
Not sure what the fuss is about.
Let’s not forget my Tesla won’t need brakes for a very long time sometimes more than 10 years.
No belts, spark plugs, oils, gearbox issues, shafts, n anything associated with an internal combustion engine. The most smooth n responsive drive u can imagine.
Ps I have 3phase solar 10kw system got it installed cheap, which is how I nearly pay nothing for driving, each hour adds 70km of range. So again like u said there’s plenty of time to charge it back.and that system powers both my house n car, last bills were :
$170 and $360 per quarter.
Wait, there's an electric Golf? That's news to me.
Lol where the fart have you been?
Do you live under a rock or a cave?!?!
never heard of an eGolf either, maybe non are in Canada
Same lol
He didn’t say Golf, he said golf CART ...
I'm gonna just steal Jason's thumbnails for my tinder account
Lmfao
Your phone is going to burst into flames once the ladies start swiping right on your profile.
@@2aminitials 😂😂
We lost power in Houston,TX for Days Last year and my Friend had One of theses EV She didn’t have power to move around, was stuck this makes me think if the Grid was to ever go down EV Vehicle’s would be dead in The Water and you won’t be able to get out the Cities in case of Emergency.
Plus, as you mentioned in some of your other videos, EVs are much more responsive to the accelerator pedal than guzzle-line cars. When my Prius Prime switches over to gas, I have to consciously remember that stepping on the gas pedal will be laggy, whereas, in EV mode, it feels like the entire drive train is sliding on teflon (well, other than the tires on the road!).
Maby your clutch is dragging.
@@hubertwalters4300, no clutches here, haha.
@@mr88cet Sounds like something is dragging, check and see if your anchor is secured.
@@hubertwalters4300, haha! Nah, ICEs just don’t spin up as quickly as electric motors.
For me their are multiple reason. 1. I like manuals 2. The lack of (V8) sound 3. Their range 4. The lack of a ICE makes it just boring and not as exciting as driving stick. Don't get me wrong electric cars are fast but they just hit different it's the lack of all of the above mentioned reasons but it's also the fact that in my opinion they lack a certain kind of aura. They don't give me as James May would put it "the fuzz". But I can respect why people would drive them.
If you like ICE, I would recommend a motorcycle. Cars are boring.
That's fair, personal taste should account for decisions made. I personally hate driving manual anymore, having driven my old Mustang back and forth through Seattle traffic for years, I welcome giving my shoulder a break from all the action these days. At this point I drive out of necessity, and only around town mostly. EV all day... at least when my current ICE vehicles eventually die... which sucks, because every time I change my oil, I'm prolonging the life of a vehicle I'd rather not have anymore, them's the breaks I guess.
@@theknivjocke Agreed
That was think that hold me back for a while since I’ve driven manual my entire life. My last car a WRX was lots of fun. But now I love my model 3 SR+.
Occasionally I still miss the stick shift, but the other pro of a EV Made it worted for me but I can see how they are not for everyone.
@@theknivjocke a good friend of mine said exactly the same lol but motorcycles are just not for me I like only cars.
I own
01 integra 400 miles to a tank
2017 altima 600 miles to the tank.
I'm good. Love what I've learned tho so thank you EE
Thank you very much for making this video. I appreciate the excellent, non-biased information! As someone who has had an EV, I can attest to how inconvenient they are in comparison to full hybrids and ICE vehicles. Yes, maintenance is less expensive, but repair charges can be prohibitively expensive if the broken component is not covered by warranty.
I really like the idea of a plug in, so I can charge it at night and drive short distances on ev mode and go ice for the longer distances, also better for the engine since using it for short distances is not what they really like
You just described a plug-in hybrid. And I agree with you, they are great interim/transition vehicle to get people used to driving electric without the range anxiety worries.
I just like the sound, look, feel and smell of combustion engines as well as the ability to modify them to your hearts content.
Enjoy the stink, noise and inefficiency of your internal combustion engine as long as you can. Remember, people who owned horses and buggies probably said the same things as you... at one time. Best wishes holding on to the past. Cheers.
@@gwarlow Well they aren't inefficient nowadays, probably one of the most developed and refined forms of power generation. Currently they are faster than electric. They will still be developed far into the future, like the steam engine is with the extreme amounts of torque it can push. Power stations use steam to generate electricity.
I think it's only fair to tell you that you're one of the reasons I'm studying Automotive Engineering today.
I’d be curious about the environment impact of used car batteries and how that’s managed. ICE can be melted down and remade. What do they do with used car batteries? Thank you for your videos
Cobalt and nickel are easier to handle and while lithium can be recycled, it is a difficult(read expensive) process right now. There are pilot plants doing testing but will still be several years before it takes off.
First step for a used car battery is generally as a second life battery in a less intense environment like a house battery then recycled years later
Lead batteries are among the most recycled things on the planet. Asphalt is the most recycled in case you're curious.
Lithium, aluminum, cobalt, copper, etc are all just as recyclable as steel and aluminum in combustion engines. The same goes for the silicon, glass, aluminum and other stuff in solar panels.
Technically everything is recyclable if you throw enough energy at it, but raw elements like the ones used in batteries and motors is easier to recycle.
Batteries are recycled firstly by getting a second life as a static energy storage for chargers/home energy storage where they could still be useful an extra 10-20-30 years. For the dead batteries I guess we would be able to recycle them.
very helpful video but you fail to mention the problematic reliance on lithium; a material we don't have enough of to support the electrification of everything using lithium ion batteries and also a material that is being mined and sought after in deeply troubling ways with significant negative impact on our environment. I really believe this should also be a consideration.
Good news is, not only is the technology improving at a fast rate, less and less cobalt is being used for batteries; current sodium and redox batteries don't use any plus it is highly likely in less than a decade, sodium will overtake lithium.
Great discussion. Would love to hear your thoughts on the cost & environmental comparison IC vs electric if u include the petroleum and battery (rare earth metals) procurement and battery disposal or recycling. Not an easy task but important as well. Keep up the interesting videos!
Yeah, never hear anything about that. Just what we want, all kinds of dead electric cars / battery's laying around in a salvage yards, or Pay for a new battery? Total the car? GOTCHA! $$$
And EVs also need oil changed. It's in the regenerating brakes - Tesla for instance - and is done when tires are rotated with cost of about $240.
Rare metals in catalytic converter in exhaust systems in ICE cars
@@graemeglass7566 I don't get your point. Are you saying that's bad?
Not included is the carbon footprint for manufacturing all the solar equipment and wind generators as well as the installation impact. And the footprint of manufacturing and installation of transmission lines to carry the additional power to urban areas as well as the mfg. and installation of charging stations. Plus in major cities with existing apartments/condos and high rises, power needs to be delivered to residents with EVs. More impact.
I want to go electric, but there’s nothing that compelling to me that’s currently on-market. I like the Teslas the most as cars, but their quality control issues and anti-right-to-repair stance sours the deal and everything else doesn’t have enough range to cope with the cold temperatures and rural nature of my area.
What I’m hoping is that battery tech trickles down to aftermarket manufacturers and EV conversion kits for older cars become both practical and cheap. I’d be happy to drop $10K and convert a VW Beetle, Chevrolet Corvair, or Honda CVCC to electric and daily something cool and unique that I could repair myself.
It already has, there are crate conversion kits. But $10k is not likely.
niffrig - Not yet, at least. Battery technology is getting better every day and the costs are tumbling. I could see an LS-sized motor-and-battery package with a guaranteed 150-200 mile range for $10K or less becoming available in the next 10-15 years.
What if you loose power for several hours? And you need to leave town? And yet your not on a full charge?
Gas is my going
For convenience I prefer electric cars, even though I can't charge at home and only have on car. I can charge at a 5 minute walking distance, which I find much less inconvenient than visiting a gas station. Walking is also healthy and I do it anyway. Also gas cars require a ton of maintenance and break often. And I love that I can turn on the AC from my phone. Especially in winter when I can simply melt the ice and snow, and don't have to manually remove them with hard work in the freezing cold. And I don't have to wait for the engine to warm up, I have heating and I have performance immediately, only regenerative braking is limited while the battery is cold, but preheating helps with that too.
And a Tesla is even more convenient in many ways. In other cars you have to push a ton of buttons before you can drive, even in the most modern ones. In a Tesla you step on the brake, put it into drive with one finger, and that's it. Unless you have a pin code set, which is highly recommended, but even that's not a big deal. And when you stop, you just get out of the car and leave, nothing else. It puts itself into park, turns off and locks itself. The Model X even opens and closes the door for you.
I also love the Tesla app. In theory gas cars could have most of the same features, but they generally don't. Just one example, I can unlock and lock the car on my phone, which is super convenient when I want to let someone to access the trunk. With most other cars I have to use the key which has very limited range, and no feedback.
And it's also worth mentioning that the Model 3 and Y have much more advanced heat management, so they don't lose nearly as much range as other EVs in winter.
I'm also buying 100% clean electricity from my utility.
"gas cars break often" Stop buying domestic lol
@@AlbinoFuzWolf
I bought Volkswagen before going electric. That's supposed to be the highest quality you can get. Maybe Japanese cars are maybe more reliable, but when they break, repairs are slow and expensive (in Europe at least).
@@andrasbiro3007 I have a 16 year old subaru, I'd drive it across the country and nothing ever cost more than 300 to fix at the most.
I'm glad you continue to talk about ICE cars, Thank You. There are many of us who can't afford an EV or does not fit in our current situation. Frankly we're tired as being treated by lepers or the condescending attitude.
Thank you.
Dude your wife cost to much if you get rid of her you could buy an EV car
Frankly, the 'let them eat cake' attitudes of too many EV owners + environmentalists puts off a lot of folks who don't find it practical for their needs...
This past weekend in Austin, Texas we were told not to use large electric appliances and to set the AC at 78 because the heat wave we are experiencing is stressing the electrical grid and could cause a blackout like we had in the winter of 21. OK ... what would happen if most households had EVs that need daily charging? Somebody is not thinking this through.
85% of EV charging is done at home at night during off-peak hours.
I am personally excited about extended range plug in hybrids. This seems smart for people who enjoy traveling off the beaten paths, but who also want to lower emissions. The Jeep Wrangler 4xe, the F150 hybrid, and other vehicles like these make a lot of sense. I love the idea of being able to commute on electric, but have the engine ready to kick in when I want to explore or for long trips. One day I'm sure electric technology will advance to the point where range won't be much of an issue, but that day is not today. ICEs still have a place until then.
hmm yes
If Tesla’s new batteries pan out, with >80% reduction in manufacturing energy, the environmental story will shift even further towards EVs. And if other manufacturers can use it too, we could see plug-in hybrids with 100 miles electric range - great for people who can’t charge at home.
True, but those improvements will not be available for a few years and that assumes the additional testing and scaling up attempts are successful (i.e. profitable).
Tesla's aspiration with their current pilot lines is to get to a $25k car with 300+ miles of range in 3 years. Call that 4 years to adjust for Elon time, but the TCO of that thing is going to outcompete virtually any road legal ICE car that I know of. 5 years further down the line and the second-hand market will be flooded with millions of affordable Tesla's with good value and range that covers 99.9% of most people's needs. How is the hybrid appealing with BEV tech improving so much every year?
This should be EV 101. This is the best pro and con conversation that I've seen, and it's all at a level anyone can understand. Okay, maybe you've glossed over the long distance, point-to-point a bit, but you have the supercharger network. My Bolt would not travel as well (but we have a PHEV as well). Great vid!
Nuclear power + EVs = CO2 free, reliable energy.
Change my mind
Nuclear waste, enough said
@Paul Nobert I meant to say that nuclear energy is free of CO2 emissions, not that it doesn't cost anything.
Sorry if there was any confusion.
@@Pferdesalami The nuclear waste in thorium reactors (which are more efficient and safer than the current uranium reactors) is much safer and has almost no potential to create nuclear weapons.
@@bj.bruner there are no thorium reactors and never will, because they are salt reactors and no material withstand the radiation and the salt combined.
@Paul Nobert that is bulshit, even today a battery pack is at 70% at 350,000 km, so far away from beiing useless, but at 70% of its capazity normaly the battery will be replaced. So when you are going down to 50% you can even drive longer with a battery pack, i assume 500,000 km much longer as the most combustion engines are running. And producing a new combustion engine isn´t co2 free at all.
Bought a '16 Volt 2 years ago, this sounded a lot like me convincing my wife why it was a great idea.. ;) Still love the Volt too..
Those are the only EV’s or hybrids in my opinion that look good, or at least somewhat better than a bubbly car
Something else worth noting is that in Europe the scene is very different to the US in terms of vehicle emissions. Our vehicles can fail their emissions tests very easily, meaning you could buy a brand new car, but it's no longer road-worthy in 3 years due to stricter emissions regulations coming into place.
This happened recently with any black smoke at any RPM/load on diesels being a fail condition for the annual inspection in the UK. (Known as the 'MOT')
On top of this... Pre-COVID, the price of petrol and diesel in the UK was around $6.40~ per US gallon. (£1.30~ per litre)
Though electricity is more expensive here too, it's still only £0.24 per KW at a Supercharger ($0.33, though US Superchargers are pay per minute not per KW), and at home around £0.14 per KW ($0.19) depending on your area.
Give or take, a decently efficient modern petrol/diesel car (40 to 50 mpg) will get around 100 miles for £10 ($13.81), whereas a Model 3 will get around 200 miles for the same price at a Supercharger and closer to 400 miles from charging at home. :)
Great vid. My only gripe is you glossed over the "do you have a place to charge at home". If you have electricity in your home, you can charge your car. I've been using a standard 110 outlet in my garage for almost a year and I love not having to go to a gas station... ever.
Bold of you to assume I can even afford to run a car, let alone buy one.
John Smith I think she was joking.
Another thing to consider is if your work location provides charging. Mine does and it's free, so I save around $200/month on fuel alone. My general recommendation is to only get an EV if you have access to charging on a daily basis, either at home or work.
Home or office charging makes owning an EV far easier for sure. People have done it using public chargers, but it takes a bit more planning and having one relatively near by or close to places you frequent makes it a lot easier.
What about increased wear and tear on electric vehicle suspension due to the excessive weight? I've seen repair bills of the Model X that could buy an entire combustion vehicle.
It's probably in line with other luxury vehicles. Suspension replacements for a Leaf or Bolt shouldn't be nearly as bad.
@Jeroen Also eco friendly EV's should be small cars and/or for short drives, which means smaller batteries, as mentioned in the video. Tesla is the opposite of this.
I suspect that increased weight and accelerations make these "super cars" just as polluting as ICE's, less CO2, more microparticles (mostly from tires !), which would be worse in many urban areas where the main air pollution issue is often... micro particles !
@@Pikapichu24 Tesla luxurious??? Really??? Tesla??? Feels cheaper than a Civic.
A comparable ICE car is just as expensive and heavy.
With emissions we also have to remember it's not just CO2 and where a pollutant is released.
Another reason to buy a electric car (mainly taking about a Tesla) is it's the safest car to be in when it comes to accidents, I put a very high monetary value on my families safety. How much is your family worth?
Looking forward to getting either a Model y and/or a CyberUte here in Australia (in a very rural area) and electric will be far cheaper and more convenient than fossil fuel (can be difficult to fill up here, as well as expensive). Although just found out Caterham are here in Australia so the wife has said I can have one once I make over $2 million, luckily I invested in Tesla a while ago.
Not quite sure where you're getting that from, most US safety lists don't feature the Tesla since a wreck that could expose the battery to air would cause the whole car to go up in flames. I know one of the most frequent cars is usually a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord.
If you live in Queensland, then don't bother getting an EV for environmental considerations. It runs on dead dinosaurs.
@M Bacon thank you. That's puts it into some perspective. I guess my biggest worry would definitely be the cells possibly combusting during a crash, but they've probably put a ton of money into a secure way to store them to avoid liability issues.
@@christophermcguinness3163 How often do Tesla's catch fire compared to ICE vehicles? The information is out there.
@@vishal-singh Thats changing and also many people have solar panels and directly charge at home. There have been several universities including MIT that have used the dirtiest sources of electricity in the comparisons and EV's are still considerably better.
What will ev value be in 10 to 15 years. I now drive a Toyota that is 20 years old. Very little expense.
One additional point. People constantly say, 'what about when I need to drive 1500 miles to xyz city? I say 'rent a car and put all the miles on someone elses vehicle whether you have an EV or an ICE.
There were rolling blackouts in California last summer. Does the electrical grid have the capacity to support a major shift to electric vehicles?
Yes: Look up "duck curve". Not only is there capacity but EVs actually help evenn out the demand curve. The challenge operators have managing the grid is that there are huge peaks and valleys in electric demand, which is made worse by solar production during the middle of the day. When demand goes up as the sun goes down at 4-6pm they have to fire up generating plants that were sitting idle all day. Then when demand drops back down at 8-10pm those power generating stations get shut down again. It's very inefficient and costly to have these power stations that only run a few hours of the day. Having a more constant level of demand is more efficient than constantly firing up plants and shutting them down. As such: Home EV charging stations are set up to charge overnight when electric demand is at it's lowest (Many are even Internet connected and can get signals from the grid to know when the best time to charge is), and office/workplace EV chargers are typically charging when solar is at it's maximum production. This actually evens out the demand curve and makes it easier for grid operators to manage the supply of energy.
Furthermore: Some EVs today (and more will in the future) have the ability to *export* power from their battery pack. So an EV plugged in can actually assist the grid during a period of high demand to help prevent rolling blackouts.
@@JeremyAkersInAustin Million dollar idea for a tech startup,: make a wifi-enabled EVSE that is synchronized with the grid output. During "idle" hours the EVSE charges at 2000 watts, when the peak solar output start coming onto the grid, the EVSE gets signalled and ramps up to 7600 watts, or any other wattage, as required. If you have tens of thousands EV's doing this, you could seamlessly smooth power output on demand. Such "smart" chargers could be eligible for rebates from power companies, and publicly installed units could let people charge for free, to make them enticing to install and use.
You don't even know why there were blackouts in CA last summer. A hint to you is that EVs won't impact the electrical grid at all there.
Gasoline also needs electricity to pump, FYI.
I bought a bolt, drove for 3 years, then traded it in for a MX-5 RF GT.
I bought the bolt for 3 reasons- my drive was 80 miles a day, Tax breaks, still quick.
The bolt was quick- practical and ok-ish at handling, but in 3 short years I suffered 16% degradation and only getting worse- I also missed the sound of an engine and the fun of rowing through gears.
A Co-worker has a Volt- first gen, he lost a cell bank at 34K miles and now again at 70K his car has gone into limp in mode and they are suspecting to replace the entire $11,000 battery- he might still be covered, but this tells me that these cars are going to become disposable after the warranty expires- not many people are going to plunk a $11,000 battery (17K in Bolt!) in a car that isn't even worth that much.
We still aren't quite there with the tech, IMHO where we should be looking at is alternative fuels including CNG, Bio-Fuels, and Hydrogen because lithium, cobalt and graphene will eventually get so scarce that building a 80KWH battery would be wasteful and expensive.
And while Tesla is making uber-fast cars- remember that is only one metric that makes a car fun, I have FAR more fun in my 181HP MX-5 than I did in my 400HP Challenger- and I had WAY more fun in my slower Abarth 500 than the Bolt EV.
EV's are not the future- they are now relevant, but they are not a long term solution.
Except that electric cars typically have a 8 year 100k mile warranty or like Tesla have a 8 year unlimited mile warranty on the battery. So, your doomsday scenario about failing batteries doesn't exactly apply here.
@@redbaron6805 Think of it this way. If it were common to have to take your ICE car in to change the motor out every other year, would you be rushing to adopt the technology, even if it were covered by warranty? It's fairly common for motors to be changed and in some cases batteries (~60% of early S models needed the drive unit (E.g. motor) replaced before 60k miles, some multiple times). Even taking my car into a shop for the day is a HUGE inconvenience to say the least - I shudder at having to do it for any length of time. Just because something is free doesn't mean its inconvenience doesn't matter.
@@redbaron6805 Second hand.
By the time the car hits 8 and the battery decides to take a dirt nap, the car is now scrap parts, unless you want to cough up $15,000- $30,000 for a new battery,
And that if Tesla Is still making the cell for the car.
We are not going to see 100 year old Tesla's like we see from ICE cars- nor will we even see a 500,000 mile, 20 year old EV.
EV's are essentially cell phones- once your cell dies, might as well buy a new phone.
I'll buy a hybrid and get range and convenience, while also reducing my emissions
I’d be inboard with that if there were hybrids that were performance oriented and similarly priced to something like a Tesla Model 3.
@@ALMX5DP I drive 250 miles a day for work, so Electric car would be a no go. If they get one with 300 mile range I might make a total switch
@@JWW855 I think diesel trucks should be a hybrid. It'd get rid of the problem where a lot of black smoke comes out of the exhaust when they need to accelerate quickly.
@@JWW855 my Tesla model 3 over 300 miles range
@@JWW855 well a Model 3 Long Range would certainly do that with 322 miles rated.