Is nationalism ever a force for good? | Jared Diamond | Big Think
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Is nationalism ever a force for good?
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Nationalism isn't always a bad thing. When a country doesn't have self-confidence, and a collective sense of identity, that is also a problem. The optimal situation, in the case of nationalism, is that a nation's citizens have a healthy amount of it.
For instance, as Jared Diamond points out in this video, Finland seems to have a nationalism based in reality - and largely founded on their unique language. It imbues them with an innate pride but doesn't compel them to conquer the world.
Also, nationalism that is used to be inclusive, rather than exclusive, can help a nation transcend its darkest moments.
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JARED DIAMOND
Jared Diamond, a noted polymath, is Professor of Geography at the University of California, Los Angeles. Among his many awards are the U.S. National Medal of Science, Japan's Cosmos Prize, a MacArthur Foundation Fellowship, a Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction, and election to the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. He is the author of the international best-selling books Guns, Germs, and Steel; Collapse; Why Is Sex Fun?; The World Until Yesterday; and The Third Chimpanzee, and is the presenter of TV documentary series based on three of those books.
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TRANSCRIPT:
JARED DIAMOND: What about nationalism for a country? Is it good or is it harmful? Well, that's like asking about self-confidence and ego strength for a person. If a person has confidence and ego strength, is that good or bad? You can have too much of it and it's harmful if you are so full of yourself that you ignore other people. If, on the other hand, you lack confidence and you depend upon other people for your own image, then you don't have the courage, you don't have the identity, you don't have the sentiment to deal with your own issues. With nationalism today, there are countries that seem to me that have a healthy nationalism. I regard Finland, a country that I love as having a healthy nationalism based on reality.
The Finns speak the Finnish language. Nobody else in the world speaks the Finnish language. It's a beautiful, but very difficult language. It's the root of Finnish national identity. The Finns have a national epic, the Kalevala, in the Finnish language. And every Finn can recite the Kalevala, Of Americans and English people can recite Shakespeare. So the Finns have a healthy national identity focused on their language, their culture, and also their history, and what they've been able to overcome. There are countries that have excessive national identity. There are for example, people who would regard Germany during the 1930s during the Hitler era, as having had excessive national identity. Today, it seems to me that Germany has a healthy national identity.
Germany's national identity is not based on going out and conquering the world and acquiring [INAUDIBLE],, but recognizing that there are wonderful things about Germany that distinguish Germany from other countries. German's long history with the German language, the language of Martin Luther, that unifies Germans Protestants and Catholics, the government support for the arts in Germany, the emphasis on the importance of the community in Germany as opposed to the rights of individuals. In the United States and Los Angeles, anybody can build a house with any architectural plan that you like. And so there's no attractiveness to neighborhoods. In Germany, there is attractiveness in the neighborhoods. So it seems to me that Germany has a healthy national identity today. It did not in the 1930s. Chile has a healthy national identity. After Chile recovered from the trauma of a military government in 1990.
When a democratic government came back, it would have been so obvious for the democratic government to try to take revenge on the military government's leaders who had tortured and killed so many Chileans. But the first speech by Chile's new democratic government in 1990 was that he wanted to build a Chile for all Chileans, a wonderful expression. That's real national identity. A Chile for all Chileans means a country where the tortured and their relatives can live together with the torturers. It sounds terrible, but that's the only way that Chile could get out of the horrors of their military government. But that depended upon Chileans having a sense of national identity that transcended the horrible things that had happened in Chile.
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Nationalism is the reason a lot of countries exist
Also reason for many doesn't
@@vishnuvi8429 here from satyanveshi?
It the reason France wasn't torn into 13 different pieces thrown into the arms of 13 different countries and losing all of their long history, well that and Napoleon.
Ultra nationalism is the reason why countries do not exist. Binary thinking and analog thinking.
All*
*Healthy nationalism gives people identity - that union can be very powerful in country's development and the direction it's going.*
I agree! This form of a rule should definitely be implied to every nation Across Europe and Other parts of The World!
Facts! It can bring manufacturing back to countries and create jobs
Just never add socalism
Well said.
The fact is that there is Both Socialism and Capitalism in the USA. Never add Communism! 😉🇺🇸
Any group of people willing to replace themselves is spiritually sick
Replacing means removing and placing something else. You racist!
@@oviatb do you need some tissues ?
spiritually ? you mean just stupid
@@nobelheretic8962 Nah he's right you're a complete bigot
@Ionut Ionut why is race even a big deal
Nationalism has a negative stigma because when people hear it they automatically think about incredibly extreme examples of it. Nationalism is actually a good thing, just don’t be crazy extreme and try to eliminate every other culture off the face of the earth.
I mean deportion exists for a reason
It's still not very good even when not attacking other cultures. People try to look too much into the big rivalries, but the toxic collectivistic mentality that individuals born into a said "nation" *must* obey and respond to their nation-sate's government in such a way that they don't matter as much is pretty overlooked. What happens when someone just decides he does not want to ve loyal to their culture and country anymore? What happens when they just don't want to be dragged into some war effort on the other side of the map by force? They are often pressured by their local society and treated as having some kind of disease. A "traitor", if you will.
In a way, nationalism, at least in the form of ethno nation states, isn't much different from socialism.
@@mekingtiger9095 what are they if not traitors? You’re a funny one.
@@Emprah I can also make a similar argument for any smaller community inside a country:
"You're a catalan who is loyal to Spain? You're a traitor to Catalunia!"
"You're a Texan who identify yourself with America first and foremost? You're a traitor to Texas!"
"You're a Gaúcho who is a brazilian nationalist? Unthinkable! You're a traitor to Rio Grande do Sul!"
And let's also not forget how much Pan-Slavism (a type of nationalism) is playing into the minds of Russian nationalists to openly support or celebrate this entire mess with Ukraine right now. That's what the idea of dragging a group of people under one single rule is in a nutshell. Hence some old acquaitances of mine have once said: "Nationalism is just globalism at a smaller geographical scale". At the end of the day, loyalty, duty and moral obligations to a group or a community is entirely subjective and only exists at the core of each individual person and only exists for as long as the individual believes it does.
@@Emprah They're traitors for not constantly licking the boots of their politicians. A puppeteer, or politician if you prefer, cannot control someone who isn't tied to strings. They cannot be manipulated, controlled, or lied to. Therefore, the puppeteer must demonize the free man/woman. And the puppeteer's collection of marionettes will follow their master's command and will butcher the free man/woman without question.
Marionettes and their violent obsession are the cause of many conflicts throughout history. These collection of marionettes are a disease that will spread death to million. This disease should be eradicated as such. If I am labeled as a traitor for refusing to be tied to strings, then I would be proud to be a traitor to these marionettes.
It can be used for Good and Evil... Water can be used for life or for drowning people...
Damn son will you be in the next video
Everything is a tool. It's all about how you use it.
There's always a third option which u didn't tell
It can be used for both good and bad
Like
Russia
US
China
All these use it to make their countries strong but also want to make other countries weak
You got it wrong. Nationalism is not a bad thing, its not rascism, its not nazism, its not fascism. Unlike these other ideologies, nationalism does not have literally any rascist ideology towards other nations, only love to its own.
Nationalism isn't intrinsically evil, it's rather quite the opposite. I think it's the more extreme people giving it a bad name. Loving your country and wanting to preserve national and cultural identity is everything but evil to me. I think that's why the EU is anti-nationalist.
U mean Chauvinism which is ultra nationalism it is evil.
Yeah, I wanted to point that out. Thank you.
nationalism means that you put more value on the people with the same arbertairy distinction than others putting the us above the them this is a big problem
It's impossible to protect your country from a larger threat without help from other nations. The EU is internationalist not anti-nationalist
Germany seems to be swinging too far to one side as it did the other in WWII. As an outsider anyway, it seems like as a nation they let a lot of people walk over them.
Refugees don't even make 2% of the population in Germany. In fact it is only in the medium area of nations in the EU who took refugees in comparison to the native population. Other countries like Greece, Italy and if you want to go to the extremes Turkey and Lebanon took a lot of more people than Germany in this sense (5-33% of their population). The only thing why Germany is so much talked about is because of the fact that they have by far the most citizens in the EU and so 2% of this is still a big number even though it still doesn't mean a lot. Me as a German I live 100m away from a refugee facility and it isn't really a problem at all. Crime rates are at the lowest point since the unification and if our politicians let those people finally work we could tackle the lack of workers in the middle class
Nationalism is no different than people supporting a sports team - Sportisim...
Fine in moderation, dangerous in the extreme.
Civic nationalism as like Americanism isn't a bad idea, but most, infact almost all nationalisms are ethnocentric which lead to highly collectivist, authoritarian and totalitarian control freaks coming into power. Its no different than a communist or socialist socalled economy.
@@vidyanandbapat8032 Basis for this opinion please?
@@mick7sp Civic nationalism is driven by principles where ethnocentric nationalism/racism is driven by people.
@@JS-mb7ww But for what reason? Sheer accident of birth?
@@vidyanandbapat8032 Yes, a people, a nation has a right to self-determination. It's nature's natural organization. Race is real, race matters, race is the basis of identity. You are not entitled entrance to anyone else's extended family. Why would you be? They can say no. The west is now going to say no. Get used to it.
1:47 [inaudible] = Lebensraum.
you're welcome
I, as a German, feel offended by the combination of thumbnail and title. Todays German flag was relevant for the time 1815-1866, 1919-1933 and 1949-today. It has nothing to do with the Nazi-Time. Please do more research next time!
Is that really something to get offended about its just a thumbnail but yeah it is a odd choice to put the german flag there
@@BobBob-eb4io It is the Combination of title and Thumbnail along with the topic that makes it offensive.
lol
Having pride in a set of principles - assuming those principles are good - makes sense. Having pride in a flag, geographical location, race, or religion is fucking insane and humanity would be better off if those people were ejected into space.
Well a flag normally represents the principals of the country but those other things yeah make no sense to have crazy amount of pride in those things
@@BobBob-eb4io Well said! If the flag represents the hard work, grit, and the principles that transcend racial boundaries, that's something you can totally get behind
It's an excellent defense against the tryannical aspect of globalism, and provides welcome refuge for those who suffer its ill effects.
Mostly internet incels are the biggest "victims" of globalism. The actual model we have, is the one that has given us the most. We've never been more free and wealthy (as countries), but red pill-incel-losers tend to hate it. Capitalism and globalism are the best we've ever had.
@@thecorruptversion You are kidding, right? No? On what planet are you living? Clearly not the same one as me.
@@jiminverness yeah, socialists /fascists tend to say that to me.
@@thecorruptversion Really? So not just normal people then?
@@jiminverness Normal people live a decent life, thanks to our system. It's just the special little snowflakes, the ones that can't handle it and cry about the "ill effects" through a screen.
By the way, calling THIS "tyrannical" shows how sensitive and delicate you are. Wait until you hear about Stalin, Mao, Hitler, etc.
I think this all depends on how you define nationalism... and could there be an argument for healing civil tensions without nationalism? A strong national identity isn’t necessary for me to be kind to my neighbors, personally, although I guess for some people it’s required?
What happens when a group of people out vote you and change your way of life because thats where we are heading
@@nobelheretic8962 that is democracy the majority votes and if a society no longer agrees with the way it is run it can be changed
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 That's incredibly wrong. Majoritarian democracy leads to tyranny of the majority, and allows the majority ethnicity to have power over everyone else
@@cs0345 depends on your political system
Yes. For a very long time nationalism was a unifying force against petty racial and tribal divisions.
As the modern more divisive force? I dunno. Probably not in most cases. I do have a soft spot in my heart for Scottish nationalism.
nationalism:"you are born into this tribe and you have to loyal to us,the collective. Other tribes don't matter and inferior."
@@taliesinhalliday nationalism and socialism are both forms of collectivism.
@@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122 Holy, shit! *Finally,* someone who damn gets it!!!
@@taliesinhalliday That's because it is in the sense that both are collectivistic as hell.
Nationalism is like self love and self respect and self care. Internationalism is like pleasing others at the expense of your happiness. Nationalism is the respect of your national sovereignty and the sovereignty of others
Take a look at the globe!
Nationalism is just internationalism on a small scale!
A "nation" is a joint of many federations/states/provinces/prefectures or whatever.
You're already an internationalist!
It’s is the only foundation we have for the existence of Civilization. If you have no Nation than who Is your government. From what I know it’s national governments that depend on nationalist patriotism to defend the people. To call Nationalism evil is evil. The real Nations are Christian Nations and the Christian world is Christiandom. Gods kingdom on Earth. I trust God more than any politician and prefers constitutional governments that have there rules set in stone so everybody understands not ever changing values that could be outdated next year. Leftist think they know more than thousands of years of knowledge. Imagine being that vain and full of yourself.
No need to tarnish the meaning of words by blurring the lines. It's straightforward:
Self-confidence is good; arrogance and narcissism are bad.
Nationalism is good; fascism and exceptionalism are bad.
Nationalism is about creating a state where the people matter, where there is no anti-nation agenda, no anti-white agenda, and that the white existence in such country is secured. We had those things before, why can't we have them now? National homogeneity is the most crucial thing about creating and maintaining a stable society, the more diverse it gets, the more difficult it becomes to keep it all together in one piece. The worst thing is, that if the invading ethnicity overruns the native one, all of the history, the culture, the language, the society will be destroyed and replaced by the invading culture, invading people, invading ethnicity - which is what I want to avoid at all costs. Is it really too much to ask for? To ask just for survival the survival of one's kind?
Very well said, people get too stuck in extremes and lose balance.
My country, in the meantime, is not nationalist enough.
where are you from mate? I reckon that's a very unique stance.
@@wert2345 His avatar makes it clear.
@@MetricImperialist perhaps i'm an uncultured swine but i don't recognize it, care to enlighten me?
@@wert2345 What country is most commonly associated with maple leaves and frequently uses them on their coat of arms and their national flag?
@@MetricImperialist Those aren't maple leaves :)
I know the country in his avatar because I lived there for a while-small, 4 provinces [their symbols in avatar], and there's no clue in his name.
*Countries with a healthy nationalism, have masculine leaderships*
Masculinity is about boundaries, whereas femininity is more chaotic.
Oh no, found the mgtow. You do realize that without a balance between men and women, masculinity and femininity, beneficial healthy nationalism wouldn't exist, right?
Daily Compilations of course, agree 100%
My comment wasn’t favouring any side.
Germany is far from having a healthy national identity lmao.
And you don't have to talk 'nazi era' to stupidly dismiss that they actually don't(right now).
In couple decades you can put the crescent on the German flag and there would be no difference between the people and the flag that represents their nation,cause at that point the majority will probably already speak Turkish.
Good theory and nice little analogy, but visit the country before using it as an example.
i live in germany and what you're saying is complete bullshit. we have a muslim population of less than 6%. even in a scenario where we continue to have high migration numbers, by 2050 it will still be less than 20%. quit your alarmist bullshit and read before you speak.
@@MadDunhill how was that new years Eve party? You're literally lying.
@@benharrison3479 i'm literally lying? i'm literally quoting Pew Research Center statistics, you absolute genius. and how the hell do the new years assaults prove anything about population percentage?
also that was 4 and half fucking years ago, kinda telling that you couldn't find a relevant example. seriously a masterpiece of a comment.
Nationalism without trying to kill each other is the greatest thing on planet
... "Is nationalism ever a force for good?" How about we take a look at the origin of the word nation? "The word nation came from the Old French word nacion - meaning "birth" (naissance), "place of origin" -, which in turn originates from the Latin word natio (nātĭō) literally meaning "birth"." Tell me, who do you love more? Your people or another tribe? Do you care about your people? Do you want people who look like you running around in the future? Do you have kids? If you have kids, have you realized that you love having people who look like you around you? To question nationalism, to question one's love for their people is to question humanity itself. I dare you to try run a country for more than 200 years with multiple nationalities competing inside of it. Rome tried, a whole lot of good it did them. Imagine people, imagine the day that ZOG fails entirely, and youtube becomes decentralized, and big think crumbles along with all other propaganda. Wouldn't it be great if peoples could just keep to themselves without world orders breathing down their backs?
idiot
Depends on who you ask. Nationalism is like a gun, it can be used against bad guys and against good guys.
A world for all organisms and no nationalism is needed.
No
JS90 What’s wrong with that are you against nations working together for the common good of humanity like when the USA, UK and Soviet Union put aside their egos to crush Nazi Germany. Or when the United States lead a coalition to defeat ISIS with the entirety of NATO at their side. Nah you don’t your mentality is that the world is a battle royale. It’s every nation for itself and only the strongest will prevail it doesn’t matter if millions are starving in Yemen or Women are for real being oppressed in Afghanistan. As long as wherever you live in is prosperous you don’t give a rats ass about the welfare of people in other countries.
@@Eaaaaaaa472 What a shit comment. I did not imply that nations can't work together for the common good. But they are not obliged. And there's more people starving in Africa than ever today, despite hundreds of billions in aid from the West. The reason more are starving is because with the aid, they can reproduce more, thus there are more starving people now.
The US govt is literally funding extremists in Syria. We should stay the fuck out and stop fighting for Israeli interest.
Foreign aid has failed.
A people can assert what's in their best interest and if you don't like it, no one cares.
I’m Finnish but can’t cite Kalevala and now he made me feel dumb
Let's ask Mr. Diamond his thoughts on Israel.
Nationalism, by definition, can only be constructed with regard to the 'other'. The positive example here of Germany, doesn't really apply when their enforcing austerity on their neighbours. When debates in the EU are conducted with stereotypes of Greek people being 'lazy' and 'unwilling to work' because they want to have some government run services and basic welfare.
Sure, you can spin Germany welcoming in lots of refugees, or countries such as Australia embracing a more multicultural nationalistic narrative, as a positive form of nationalism. But would Germany have pursued this path without the ghost of world war 2, without people literally arriving on mass and the imagery that constructing camps would've brought? And, these nationalistic myths still reinforce the conservative position that, these borders must be enforced, some people are legal, some people are not. It doesn't treat the worth of all people equally. It inherently privileges those of the in group with citizenship. So yeah. This guys a bit shallow and full of shit.
This bloke needs to read some Derrida.
Okay N1gg@ 👌🏿
Lol at how furious people would be if our president said "An America for all Americans". That's how you know we on that bad bad
Nationalism has no place in the future. This is the human race, and travel will continue to become faster and faster. Preserving cultures is a human thing, but cultures move, grow, and adapt just like we do. Life was alot different when we started farming instead of hunting. Technology is making us evolve, and we could do so much more as a species vs individual nations.
You're way too caught up into civilization, sure we are advancing faster than ever right now, but every civilization falls after some time and everyone goes back to their natural lives, and nature is pro nationalism because - as you said, humans adapt, but they adapt for the place they are living in, a native Australian wouldn't be able to survive in Europe just as a European wouldn't be able to survive in Australia - under natural circumstances that is.
@@winterfrost8623 They absolutely could survive today, and in the future which is what I am talking about. You're equalizing the past and the present when the scales of opportunity is not anywhere close at all. We are living in a completely different time, with extreme advancement in technology. We aren't doomed to repeat the past if we learn from our mistakes. Now, we have all the knowledge we could ever know at our fingertips.
@@easybreezysneezycovergirl911 you're still caught up I civilization, and seem to have a rather "we know it all" mindset, truth is we dont know it all, we dont know how much we know - if anything at all, it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have you can't escape nature, civilizations are not natural and are always going to fall no matter what, our civilization for example is basically built on oil, that's why we had such a huge advancement, but the oil will eventually run out. It doesn't matter if they could survive right now, what matters is whether they will survive in the future and the answer to that is no. Only thinking about the present is narrow minded, selfish and will only get lots of people killed in the future.
@@winterfrost8623 you're still in the past and I'm in the future. Agree to disagree, even though I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just don't think your thought is fully formed yet.
@@easybreezysneezycovergirl911
No, he's not "in the past" and he's talking neither about past nor future. He is talking about human nature, which in this context is timeless. We are still biological hardware-wise the same beings when we hunted mammoths or lived in caves and banged rocks together.
Holding up Germany as a model? Yeah maybe, but the intelligentsia have guilt trips of the past and allow extravagant immigration to their own detriment endangering their social fabric.
Holding Chile as a model? "We're all Chileans" sounds fine but human beings need a combination of justice and mercy. But mercy is only appropriate to those who fess up and apologize.
Citing these two examples is the direct opposite of healthy nationalism.
In what ways has immigration been to the detriment of Germany? It's interesting that you cite immigration as being so terrible when Europeans have forcefully taken over entire regions of the globe. Africans and native Americans can say the same about European people's on their soil. The difference being Africans and Americans would have sufficient evidence to back their claim
@@themac9677 Doesn't the very fact that you recognize that Europeans have recognized that what they have done was detrimental (while in some circles there is the sincere belief that it was both detrimental AND beneficial) indicate that you know intuitively that mass imposition of people groups with their reconcilable world views is destructive to a society? Your very line of argumentation tells us that rapid influx of different cultures is problematic. Statistics also bear it out that people self segregate in spite of the multicultural mantra.
What we're quibbling about is the forceful imposition by other means. Either way there's going to be conflict and suffering and misunderstanding. Why do it the way we have for the last decade? Just to atone for the past?
@@themac9677
Not really. It's not like people actually actively support this on a mass scale, it's more that politics and governance is quite removed from the people and that the populace on the whole can be described as fairly apathetic and docile. Even if they don't agree with it on a mass scale, they are still too fat, prosperous and content to do anything - they just let it happen. Similar situations with the wars in the US.
If Finalnd's nationalism is based in reality then what we need is realism, not nationalism.
Thank for guidance
What's the immigration like in Finland?
@@AndersGehtsdochauch that's good news if true...thanks I'll try and double check
too much because it's higher than zero
@@JS-mb7ww Good answer 🙏
i dunno seems to be working well for China
I think nationalism is the closest term to putting ones own country first. Theres no hate in this. Much like having a family, you put your own family first. You feed your own kids, you invest your house etc. Confusing this with Nazism is stupid.
Problem with "outting the interests of a nation first" is... who TF is gonna decide what is the best for their nation??? You compare it to a family, but a common house family doesn't have thousands to millions of inhabitants spread throughout relatively distant regions. It is easy to negotiate with your mom, father and sister/brother for a "democratic" outcome.
Try to do the same with an entire country by yourself, though. Even "nations" have diverging interests internally. It's why separtist movements even exist to begin with.
there is hate in it becouse it means someone from another place is woth less to you than someone who is this can lead to exploitation
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 we make evaluations of all kinds of ppl, not just foreigners, we regard some ppl more highly than others, its how we sre. as foe exploitation, no one forced anyone to leave their country and you dont have a right to make demand while being in a counry illegally.
I'm trying to explain to my gf.about nationalism and this let me down completely...How In the fuck is .We live in a time when you have to dumb it down sometime and take the hit...
"With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
-Abraham Lincoln
Israelis are the most oppressed nationalists in the world.
Good joke bro
dimaniak Absolute nonsense. Israel is the most protected nation in the world.
You mean the most excessive nationalists in the world don’t you? Zionism is a political philosophy born out of the rise of nationalism in the 1800’s in Europe. It twisted the religion of Judaism into a national identity. This national identity is unlike any other in the world because it defines membership in the nation state by an arbitrary ethnic-religious category. Every other country in the world is a nation for ALL its citizens, but not Israel. This hyper nationalism manifests itself today in constant territorial expansion, militarism and xenophobia.
I have an interesting thought about American nationalism. I suspect that most Americans just sort of numbly go through the motions of nationalism, but our REAL patriotic pride is more localized, such as a state or a city.
We used to hs e more National pride. However with the mass rise of social media and extreme leftists ruling academia that has changed
Interesting topic to cover 💡💡
What the speaker didn't mention is that in countries where you have healthy nationalism, you have a demographic that is all or almost all one people who share the same history.
diversity is great and has its cultural benefits , but no one in their right mind is going to believe that a government made up of people from completely different backgrounds with different cultural experiences can come together and work in some kind of unified way, and it makes perfect logical sense.
Humans are tribalistic by nature and the only reason why the US is still holding together is because of abundant resources and the fact that the government is largely made up of European americans. If that drastically changed, you'll have Libya or south africa or somalia or syria or any of these failed states. No one wants to say it how it is.
Yes. This is why the USSR or the Kingdom of Hungary could never work and why the EU will never work. The principle of the nation state is what makes people most happy and which is most effective. This is just an empiric observation and conclusion. Just as the fact, that national monarchies with Kings and Queens are not inherently bad, even if Hobbes and his anti-absolutism implies the opposite, since monarchism doesn`t prevent a nation to achieve social securities and happiness (Denmark, Sweden, UK, Norway, Netherlands, Luxembourg etc.). Further: Without nationalism we wouldn`t fly to the moon or to Mars. Which are amazing achievements.
you should read about the gravity model in economics on factors that enhance trade among countries,
there has beem strong co relation between the amount of information that can be stored and processed to the number of people a society can support but but since 1950s we dont seem to have been able to do that even with exponential increase in data i wonder what might be the cause
Good lord, this guy is a professor and he can't differentiate between 'national identity' and nationalism.
Really? What‘s the difference then; and why is it significant?
@@philo9609 Patriotism is to confidence as Nationalism is to narcissism.
Azshare W - That may be a contemporary pop-definition but if we want to talk about Nationalism seriously, we have to adopt a more academic view. Nationalism is an ideology that proclaims that a nation (i.e. a people) deserves the right to decide their own destiny, nationalists try to create and defend nation states. If you try to subjugate other peoples you are not being nationalistic but rather imperialistic. Patriotism is a sense of duty to ones home /country /town (lat. patria).
Nationalism and Patriotism are therefore different things. A contemporary example might be Spain and the Catalan independence movement: The Catalans that try to gain independence from Spain are nationalists. The Spaniards that try to prevent that are also nationalists because they believe Catalonia to be part of their nation, from the Catalan perspective however they are being imperialistic. Finally both Catalans and Spaniards are acting out of a sense of patriotism.
I hope you can see now why he uses the picture of ‘healthy’ and ‘unhealthy’ amounts of nationalism.
Love for country, nationalism, patriotism =/= fascism
Nothing wrong with fascism.
@@JS-mb7ww Stfu nazi
As long as there are people who dont want to change as well as people who want other people to change, there is a problem
Yeah so let's have separate societies. Pretty simple.
Thanks, brief and accessible.
"The nation state is the measles of humanity." Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein was a plagiarist and a zionist hypocrite.
"The problem with us scientists is that we are poor philosophers." - also Albert Einstein
He was a Jew, willing to bet had Israel existed during his time he would of had a different view on the subject.
@@DrewPicklesTheDark he didn´t believe in conventional religions, you dumbass.
@@hochmeisterulrichoffrankfu8207 idiot
Who can tell what Jared Diamond said from minutes 1.45 to 1.55?
I am Indonesian. I am not good at listening to English.
He is comparing modern day Germany to Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s, saying how they aren’t trying to acquire lebensraum, which is living space, but instead embracing their culture without attacking others. I hope that helps some
Nationalism and loving your country so as to improve it is always a good thing in my point of view. If you don’t love yourself you’ll never learn to become a better person. Without any sense of nationalism a nation is too quick to destroy itself without thinking anything of it, it’s like depression on a national scale, if you don’t love yourself you will ultimately harm yourself in one way or another.
Civic nationalism thats the only good nationalism i know
(And since when the modern US is a Civic Nationalism?)
You got his job title wrong, he is a Professional Bird Watcher.
An also aPh.D., Cambridge University, England workig at the UCLA.
geog.ucla.edu/people/jared-diamond
Nope.
Whoop Canada!
I just think whatever Russia’s doing and do that
I had to laugh reading your comment. But yeah you're kind of right
Kosovo is not Serbia
@@gamermapper yeah its greece
In globalization, hell no
Better then nationalism
Ethnic nationalism is the best nationalism.
I like this guy. He has a t-rex tie.
I just want all people of earth that your nation is first. And must always be.
How about we put people instead of arbitrary abstracts first?
Why should you be proud of where you are from
The alternative is being a slave to corporations
I guess that we are mistakenly using the term "nationalism" for all the topics about "patriotism". The real thing is "patriotism", and "nationalism" is its degeneration. Becouse "nationalism" is about using other lands for the good of my own without any ethics. But most media are falsely using "nationalism" for "patriotism". Thats the problem. Though I guess that "nationalism" is when we want to dominate another lands just for themselves. And patriotism is when we want to be free in our own land and dont want to dominate another lands. But its when we want to protect our land. Nationalism is I think the first step to imperialism. And becouse USA is empire, they must be nationalistic from the start. When you are an empire you just gone from "patriotism" to "nationalism" in the first place. Patriotism is like living independently upon your our resources and of course protecting the resources from stealing by others, but not stealing in other lands themselves. And nationalism is about stealing from others under the justification of being patriotic and protecting our land's interests, and empire is just a bigger version of nationalistic land, more in the buissness of dominating others and stealing from others. Every patriotic topic and action is labeled falsely in the main media as nationalistic and the term patriotic is not even there in the media at all, for the last 15 years I just didnt heard this term in my tv. (The other term I didnt hear in the last 15 years was electrosmog - think about it - The problems they dont like us to talk about, they just make the words describing such problems disapear) :D This is so smart - eliminate the normal word from the media and all this word is meaning is over the years labeled falsely as another more brutal and more evil word for all of us to see and to believe. :)
Nationalism: advocacy of or support for the political independence of a particular nation or people.
Nationalism can be good. Depends on the definition tho.
Yes, like the checks during the nazi invasion, like the catalonians defending decentralization and democracy in Spain nowadays... Defending centralism and jacobinist states like France in the XXI century in the middle of the telecommunication era is nonsense.
I think you meant *Czechs
A man wrapped up in himself, makes a very small package.
American Nationalism. Healthy or unhealthy? American Exceptionalism unhealthy nationalism? Russian Exceptionalism? Chinese Exceptionalism? Healthy egoism, unhealthy narcissism. 🦉😎😇🇺🇸
Open Wikipedia on Jared Diamond
See early life part of the bio
really makes you think huh.
but the finish speak english too,
Exactly. They love their country but they absolutely don't mind extending their hands to foreign nations for cooperation and mutual benefit.
That behavior does not exist for nationalists, who will argue that their own language is the superior language, and that others ought to learn their language, not the other way around.
paul gilroy disagrees
Nationalism IS dangerous. You're talking about patrioism. The Patriot would die for his country and the nationalist would kill for his Country! So keep that apart!
Yes
I guess you mean Patriotism.
What’s the difference? The actual difference is very vague and very exploitative
No
Is Globalism a good thing?
Mild globalization in certain fields (communications, transport, etc.) yes, a homogeneous global order, no.
Yes it's good
absolutely cant be generalised for every one there are always some extremes and these guys make the most noise
Wrong question.
Is Nationalism ever a force for bad?
There are no wrong questions. You're doomed to ignorance if you never ask any.
But he just so happens to also answer that question. 1:26
There are situations when nations as political entities (states) and cultural identities correspond. But this is not necessarily the case. A population may identify very deeply with its culture and be self confident without ever embracing nationalism and without identifying with the state that governs it. There are an infinity of cases outside and even inside the western world.
Grande Chile!
Only in Israel...
Only in Israel... what?
@@Hephaestikon Here's one example of hundreds of what he's talking about:
ruclips.net/video/xXfnAMMpW_o/видео.html
Borders, language, and culture.
starts the video off with a trash scientist
There is nothing greater than nationalism it makes people into people
Naaaaaaah man, you aren't allowed to be proud of your country with THAT on your profile picture
Nationalism is liberalism. Feudalism is superior.
@@noelyanes2455 No nationalism is nationalism
@@skurt9109 That is not correct. Nationalism is a product of the liberal enlightenment. It is a sub-category of liberalism.
@@noelyanes2455 No becouse liberalism is liberalism
Short answer to the title: nopester. And referring to the examples quoted as "healthy" is like saying that remission is better than no cancer at all...
In wartime.
antiga antiru äh germ thvmp sayce id öll v v
My white coworkers are rude to me lol
Have you tried fucking leaving?
@@JS-mb7ww why should they leave dumbo
I would say no. Not sure nationalism is the same as national identity. One says you are better than others, the other that there are unique cultural aspects of your people. Important distinction to me
Nationalism as defined by wikpedia:
Identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
Or:
Advocacy of or support for the political independence of a particular nation or people.
I think your argument has proven itself wrong, my friend.
@@yosiSher Exactly. That's bad.
My culture is definitely süperiör to your's
Ask the native Americans how they feel about nationalism
Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride
the native americans were nationalists them self were they not ?
@@gohstdude2 Only in the sense that they were Tribalists. And not all groups were. They did not uphold the same values as categorical Nationalism. They actually valued the internal peace of small groups over large ones. They only became nationalist in the threat of extinction in the early 20th century.
@@deluxeassortment and is that a bad thing? No one should allow their own group of people to go extinct, if someone else is invading your country/tribe then the right thing to do is to protect it rather than sit around and do nothing. Sure, what englishmen did to the natives wasn't great and the fact that they went extinct is a tragedy, but that doesn't mean other European nations and people living in them deserve the same faith, or any nation for that matter, what you're referring to is imperialism (just like nazi germany) which is bad, but nationalism is not as long as you dont try to take over other people's land or invade it, just focus on making the best out of the place you live in
@@winterfrost8623 I suppose I was referring to the fact that they were happy living in small, self governing tribes as opposed to the infesting, destructive weed that is civilization.
@@deluxeassortment I agree with that, civilization brings violence, luckly every civilization falls after a while and this one is no exception
Nationalism is a religion
Yes... well... If you like having nations... Trump is a perfect example...
Nope. Nope. Dont ever try to give America as an example of a nation lol
America, America über alles!
why can't we all just identify as humans ?
Because that's very vague and close minded
Spoiler - no
Spoiler - yes*
"Is nationalism ever a force for good"
Simple answer: No, never. It always ends in katastrophy.
nationalism started with the French revolution and meant that everybody in a nation was equal under the law as a replacement of the feudalistic system where king and aristocracy were more important than the common people.
@@petersteenkamp Typical case of "good start, bad ending".
@@TOFKAS01 wrong.
Nationalism is what builds nations. The reason we have peace, security, and luxuries like education, technology, and shopping malls is because some people's nationalism and a desire to build a better future for themselves, their neighbors, and more importantly their children.
I can't build a better world and a better future for everyone, but my friends and I can work together to improve ourselves and our legacy. Build a pedestal for our children to stand on. And protect that pedestal from other people who would rather take from others than build for themselves.
That is where nationalism comes from. The trappings of modern civilization are the result if nationalism. This is proven in every single failed state.
Just as you can crush a man's skull with a hammer or a stone, those are the very things needed to build a home.
In other @@TOFKAS01 news, someone died from medical malpractice: Medicine has never done anyone any good. Ever.
Nationalism, racism, sexism or any form of identity politics always leads to wastage of valuable resources.
If nationalism means putting vulnerable groups at risk the answer is no. Edit:
Please no MRAs or facists in the comments please.
Except it doesn't mean that.
Like sending men to war?
Should we send women?
@@Gulgathydra theres no need for war in a nationalistic country unless that country is being attacked, if every country would be nationalistic and mind their own business then no one would attack eachother therefore there wont be any need for war
@@winterfrost8623
Until one country gets hungry, or over-populated.
@@Gulgathydra if that happens then that country has failed, but they can still do everything they can to change that. Not going to someone else's land and leech off of it, but strive to survive in your own, teaching their people to have less kids and gather food, every problem has a solution that doesn't require invading someone else.
This isn't about Nationalism this is about National identity. Nationalism leads to wars where as national identity unites the people of an otherwise arbitrary region.
What is the value of national identity; is it expressed or does need expression to validate any apparent value, especially so in a wider social zeitgeist?
It can be argued that nationalism in contemporary usage is a positive expression of national identity, without positive expression of national identity it cannot be propagated.
I would argue you are using a very narrow understanding of nationalism; that being it is an extreme belief of supremacy of one's nation over others in contrast. This being in a sense of military capability or perceived social/racial excellence of it's denizens over others. You would be hard pressed to find self professed nationalist who hold such a position. Of course I may be wrong, and could define what it means to you and why it is bad for those unknown reasons.
The national identity is very important as a basis for nationalism, but don't mix up nationalism with chauvinism: The latter is the exaggerated pride in one's country that can lead to war. In other words, nationalism is the drive to be united as a nation by having a common identity, it's not considering one's country as superior.
Nationalism made it possible for the small German states to unite as a nation, the same happened in Italy. Chauvinism created nazism in Germany and fascism in Italy after WW1.
Nationalism + a criminal tendency among politicians leads to wars. Nationalism alone doesn't.
@@jamesguinan415 What you just described as nationalism is literally what nationalism is. People who self describe as nationalists are, on the whole ,wrong and are in fact patriots which is merely the love for ones country or pride in ones nationality. However I would argue that patriotism is also bad as it is the last refuge of one who has achieved nothing with is life so must gain all feelings of self worth from pride in ones place of birth.
@@franciscogrundy9284 was Irish nationalism in defiance to British Imperial oppression as I described or something entirely different?
always is, have a nice day
I'm just as patriotic as the next guy, but nazi nationalism didn't seem very good to me
@@specificocean588 watch the greatest story never told watch mark collet watch my playlist "Redpills". Hi-ler was trying to fight against them
@@chadamitecheckoutredpillpl2641 hold up are u a flat earther??
@@specificocean588 yeah
@@chadamitecheckoutredpillpl2641 Oh God. Now I KNOW what you're saying is gonna be stupid