I own a U87 and it is one of the best microphones that suits all audio materials, whether the voice is women or men, and it has great flexibility in polishing and smoothing the sound. Thank you brother for this nice comparison
For me the main difference is in the sibilants. The U87 is much smoother there. Doesn't mean that the 103 is harsh, but the overall SSSSSSes are much more pleasant for me, listening to the U87
This was exactly my experience of the two mics. We had a U87ai in the production studio of a radio station I once worked in years ago. I loved how I sounded on it. But when I bought a TLM103, I was less than impressed. The S sounds were too sizzly for me. I prefer those S sounds to be smooth and transparent. They were anything but with the TLM 103.
i disagree, during the blind test i heard mic B to sound a little more abrasive with a thicker push in the mids, more punch you could say. i found mic A to be quite a bit smoother and less "stop-and-go."
I was unable to tell which was which in the blind test, but it turns out that I liked the U87 Ai better. That made me smile when you revealed which was which, but I know it was only a coin toss. I'm a fan of your Versus Series, but that's only because you do such a great job with it. Thanks, BLT.
I listened several times. Cant tell a difference, for sure not an obvious difference.I've been recording for years and I;m thinking maybe I just cant hear well. All I could do was guess which was the 87.
@@BRADRANCH This is accurate. The give away is always the higher frequencies, which are easily distinguishable against other brand mics, but these two mics both have the Neumann signature top end. So the difference would have to be found in the body and low end which can be more tricky to hear on headphones and budget speakers. I would not be sad owning either.
Oh man! I sweared Mic A was U87 in the blind test, it sounded better to me. Then you revealed them and U87 sounded better to me. My conclusion is: we are biased towards expensive microphones even though the slight differences don't justify to pay the triple, but if I could, I would buy U87.
Kudos for the truest comment on RUclips. Our brains are powerful and high end gear desire will always lead our decision making. Uuuuunless we do the valued blind test and not give a 💩 what anyone else thinks. And after saying all that…I still want a U87 too 🤣
U 87 sounds a little fatter on voice which may not be the most desired thing always. Tlm 103 sounded a little thinner to me and I liked it finally personally. I think it because of the transformer less design. The transformer on the u87 gives fatness to the tone.
Put a real artist in front of the 2 microphones, and you will understand the difference in price. U87 is doing ART, others are just doing sound. It is applying for other high end microphones too.
The U87 Ai is just so much smoother in the high frequencies on the guitars! It sounded warmer on the vocals, but there really isn't much difference between the two, just a matter of preference at this point :)
I liked the sound of the U87 AI better in the blind test. It's definitely cool to have access to them to do these tests, but they're both neat and I don't think anyone would feel bad about purchasing one versus the other.
My TLM-103 is champagne colored and my U87 is black. Backwards of yours! I did guess them correctly. The 103 is brighter but not quite as smooth on the top end and it's easy to pick out between the two.
2 года назад+13
Great comparison, Bandrew. I'd like to know your pick between the TLM 103 and the TLM 102 for voiceover purposes. I already have a TLM 102 and I'm pretty happy with it, but I have my doubts on whether I should upgrade it or not. Thank you!
you didn't as me but I'll give my opinion: the 103 is amazing on deep voices but can sound harsh on higher pitched men and most women whether trading up is worth it will depend on the talent's voice
Big thanks for this comparison. I have only recently realized how bright the 103 actually is. U87 was much preferred during the talking segments - but, funny enough, 103 did sound more... normal on the electric guitar, more like the sound you'd expect.
Very interesting to see the tonal differences. It's not that small of a difference. What I hear is as follows: 1. The TLM103 has more bass boost but also more harmonic color down there. You can really hear it on the off axis test when listening to the rear of the mic. It picks up a LOT of low end from the rear of the mic. 2. The treble is more boosted on the TLM103, you can hear it almost like a lazer beam on Bandrew's voice. It doesn't sound bad, it's just more apparent. 3. The u87ai's off axis colouration sounds rfar superior. 4. The dynamic character of the u87ai makes it worth the price alone. It's incredibly smooth and easy to listen to. It's like listening to something sitting by a fireplace drinking hot cocoa lol
Great comparison! I currently own the 103 and have the U87 on rent -- as soon as you spoke into the 103 I immediately knew which mic it was. It succeeds in having a high quality 'Neumann-esque' flavour, but the issue is in the low mids (100-400Hz), upper mids (around 5K), and high end (everything past 8K). The U87 actively sounds flattering in these ranges on most vocals and sources, whereas the 103 loses body and is overly sibilant and harsh. The 103 can be deceptively attractive at first as it is mostly a really great sounding mic overall, but unfortunately the issues in these frequency ranges become a bit of an achilles heel -- the inherent sibilant nature of the mic provides an uphill battle by the time it comes to mix, and the amount of processing required to counter the issues downstream involves compromises overall. The U87, on the other hand, has nice and tight yet full bodied lows, a beautiful midrange, and a smooth top end due to its high end roll off -- it starts strong and only gets better as you process it, and doesn't require nearly the time or effort as the 103. I was hoping to be able to get the 103 to sound close to the 87, but the time saved by only having to focus on getting a good take on the 87 and then feeling confident you'll get great results during mix down is itself worth the difference in price between the microphones in my opinion. The 103 is still a great sounding mic capable of good results, but I find there are so many problematic frequency areas and it requires a substantial amount of work downstream to get results that are even in the same ballpark as the U87.
I hate being boring, but my vintage 87s, and for that matter any 87, is just a perfect vocal microphone. Note the very even polar response. This gives a more consistent behavior in different setups. I’ve compared to many mics, my U47fet, my 1951 U47 tube which is in need of capsule cleaning so that’s not so fair. It’s not necessarily better, but just absolutely predictable. That helps me to work with new vocalists with fewer surprises.
Great Review Bandrew, as always. Both Extremely clean Mics. Every time I hear the U87, I see Lennon. The U87 is a little warmer, and can feel the depth more than the TLM 103. I agree as I thought the TLM 103 sounded better on the electric guitar, however the acoustic sounded better with the U87, to my ears. Vocals over the Electric guitar tracks go to the U87 as well.
I passed the blind test successfully, I already knew that U87 Ai is “warmer” from other comparison videos, it has some bump in the mids comparing to TLM 103. I’m not sure if I can tell which one I would prefer over another judging only the sound. I think it depends on the purpose. TLM 103 definitely wins the guitars test. I even disliked the sound of U87 Ai for guitars, not only liked TLM 103 more. TLM 103 has less “body” and more “crystallness”/“clearness” of the highs. I think I would prefer TLM 103 for spoken word (at least for your voice) and for singing U87 Ai. But for the spoken word I think I would prefer TLM 102 over TLM 103. And TLM 103 for singing over TLM 102. They all are pretty good and it’s not easy to tell which one you would like less or more.
Hey Bandrew, I really like your "versus series"! But you know this already. I appreciate, that you made clear that both of these microphones are great. But there is one point, where I have a different opinion. For acoustic guitar I like the U87 much more than the 103. The sound of the acoustic guitar opened up, was very clear and natural to my ears. I'd always prefer the U87 for this purpose.
This comment says it all. For me, you just hear more of the sound with the u87ai. But also having a 103 would be an amazing stepping stone at 1/3 the cost.
Thanks so much for your Vidz Brandrew! Before I buy any mic, I watch your reviews first. Could you please, please do a review or comparison for the new UT Twin87 vs U87ai. Thanks!
I'd be perfectly happy with the 103, but would use it in full expectation that - for many sources & purposes - a couple of db of lowpass cut around 5khz would be helpful, to tame that sizzle a bit.
I was actually kinda surprised how different these two mics sound. I wasn't expecting the 103 to sound so bright in comparison. Also kind of surprised it took you so long to make this video. Lol
Amazing as always my friend! I sincerely couldn’t tell a difference on the blind test so, as you said, we who own any of these mics is the winners. Your musical skill and artistry is well appreciated, thank you Love you man, keep up the good work!
We own a TLM103 and a U87 in our studio for many years. Many people forgot about the Art of recording and the Art of Microphone Knowledge. Biggest mistake we always see is that people compare DIFFERENT Microphones in the exact SAME position. EVERY Microphone got a DIFFERENT sweet spot, it might not be a big difference, but before you test two or more microphones against eachother, you have to find out in which position and with which preamp (not every chain works with every mic the same way!) each microphone sounds THE BEST. Only that way you can get a fair comparison. The K103 is actually the front side of the K87 and the capsule is responsible for 70-90% of the sound. Since the capsules are close to be similar the sound shouldn't be too far away. And surprise, it isn't. If you bring the TLM103 in its sweet spot its NEVER harsh or anything like this. People hating on the TLM103 and loving the sound of the U87 know nothing about the true Art of Recording. Also its very important to mention that the output transformer of the U87Ai is extremely transparent and neutral. So no matter with which microphone your going, you will get GREAT results as long as you got a great Talent infront of the microphone and a engineer who knows what he's doing.
Thank you ALL ELITE MUSIC. Thats the best comment Ive seen. And makes the most sense. I have a 103 and feel like I dont need an 87 mic. But Ive spent time with the 103 and know its habits well. When I sing on an 87 I feel I need to Eq it, with the 103 it feels ready before EQ. Thats just on my VX though, Another might not be the same. I dont own an 87 but have had them in my studio and sang on them in Nashville studios and I really love the 103 and dont feel Im coming up short at all. Both are great.
Hermoso todo lo que aquí se comenta todo es super genial .Quisiera preguntar cual seria ese punto óptimo para el tlm103 que se menciona , saludos un gran abrazo a todos .
Huuuuge difference when it comes to proximity effect performance, I guess PE is where ultra expensive mics shine. the U87 did an amazing job maintaining clarity!
Awesome video as always Bandrew! Quick Note: the link in the description for the "HQ Audio Of Video" is currently innacurate. The current web address has no capital letters: "tlm103vsu87ai" vs "TLM103vsU87ai" (current address link) Cont: I did not guess the mirophones correctly :,< I would have expected the U87 to have more mid presence, but I was completely backwards. The TLM 103 is so strong on baritone and bass voices, I wouldn't have guessed it had such forward mids! I preferred the U87's smoother approach to the mids; it feels very clean and clear and smooth! However, the 103 doesn't seem harsh. Both microphones have that Neumann "sheen" on the high frequencies that maintains clarity without being sibilant or harsh.
Both sound great, and I agree that the U87 wins, but it’s maybe harder to justify the price difference. I will say I felt like the U87 sounded better on your electric guitar test (I guess I’m a sucker for the more mid-forward sound you mentioned!), and I think adjusting the U87’s position slightly for the acoustic test could have made that the clear winner. As always, thanks for making it easier for the rest of us to make informed purchases!
The TLM isn't a bad mic by any chance, but here, it sounds a bit thin in the low end, and the high end is a bit brittle in comparison. You're better off buying the OC-818 for a similar budget if you want a smoother, more neutral response.
I’d prefer the 103 for electric guitar, and the 87 on the acoustic guitar. For sung voice, I’d prefer the 103, for narration maybe the 87. but, as you pointed out, it a matter of taste. Both are great microphones!
Thank You for the amazing comparison Bandrew. Love both but I like the TLM Neumann Series better. Love the smooth approach and articulation of the U87Ai on the accoustic guitar though. ' Me talking about articulation lol. Learned so much from Bandrew.
I judged them right, but they are very close. The TLM 103 is a little crisper to me. I bought a TLM 102 a bit back for my personal studio and think I should have just bought the 103, but the 102 is a great mic too. I don't see ever buying a U87. It just doesn't seem worth the cost to me. There are others mics for far less that seem great for my vocals.
The very slight forwardness in the low mids of the 87 is what makes it the perfect vocal mic for me. It is a signature of all the old Neumann mics and decidedly missing in the TLMs, which are probably more flat. It may even be a contribution of the transformer. It is a very broad boost of perhaps 1-2dB with a Q lower than many console EQs can even manage. I would not be unhappy to see a 102 or 103 when visiting in a studio if I was not traveling my 87s. They share much of the magic smoothness in the heart of the vocal range as well as the legendary overhead.
Would so love a comparison on the neumann tlm 107 and the earthworks ethos. also do you think one or the other is better for room tone rejection? outside sound etc. which do you think has a better tone overall for vocals?
Yippie!! I guessed right. Oddly, I felt I heard the smallest amount of distortion in the U87 in voice. The U87 sound quite different than the TLM103 both guitars, perhaps less in voice. I liked the TLM103 better on voice, but the U87 on the guitar, though I don't know what the guitar is supposed to sound like. Won't make my voice sound better : (
the thing that is most interesting to me is that...I'm a pro...in a studio..on pro gear...and while I can hear some subtle differences in the blind A/B...what is messing with my mind is that when you show yourself speaking into each one the difference is waaaaaaaaaaay more obvious. Somehow...my brain is hearing it differently with a visual aspect. I've checked it multiple times and every time during the A/B they sound more similar than in the video reveal. Maybe some slight mic position difference? It's wild.
Curious savethefails, Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
Thanks for all these great comparisons! It would be great if you'd do a comparison of the Neumanns with the K89 capsule: the U89 (intended as an improvement of the U87), the TLM 193 and, my favorite, the TLM 170.
2:11 mic A has SLIGHTLY more latency and B sounds just a bit more neutral and balanced. But both sound absolutely phenomenal, if I wasnt wearing headphones for this, they would sound identical IMHO.
seems like if the use it vocals. TLM103 is fine and perfect, especially if you just have it mounted by your desk where you make stuff and could benefit from the off axis rejection. If you have a room to record actual room tone/noise along with the performance and want to use omni mode, OR a fully treated vocal booth, THEN the u87 ai makes sense. But the difference is so negligible for small/home studio use that I think if you can't make the TLM103 sound good maybe you don't yet deserve the u87 ai haha.
definitely law of diminishing returns on the 87ai vs the tlm 103. i LOVE-LOVE my 103 and after getting it dialed for spoken voice work, it is the de facto standard for speech, especially with lower voice registers. i can run the 103 "dry" (no pre and no comp), and it still sounds pro level. plus, the 103 is literally dead quiet. if one must have a brand name for the U87ai, then they have to buy the neumann. it's that simple, and the value proposition at that point and for those folks simply doesn't matter. for those who are looking for value and/or can't afford $4k for an 87ai, the stam audio SA-87i owns the clone roost. it is really as good as the real neumann 87ai. same caps, circuitry, nearly identical module. thanks for your videos. sub'd.
Thanks for doing this one. Good to hear them together. In my humble opinion, the heavier LF of the 103 works much better for you on voice. The boosted mids of the 87 is less flattering for you I think. Possibly a little ‘nasal’?
Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
Either one is great to just put up and go with minimum set up. You know if things don't sound as good as you want, it's because of you. NOT the mic. As was noted: Will it make ME sound good? Did you sound good before? Can I cut Hits with them? Did you cut Hits Before? Roll the tape.
I'm curious where the Warm Audio WA-87 R2 stands in the Neumann U87 Ai/TLM103, and Rode NT-1 style mic. Is it a decent budget U87? Does it crush the NT-1 given their pricing? Love your videos, they have taught me so much.
Both are fantastic microphones. The blind test was easy since I own both mics. I think it boils down to the transformer giving the U87 a softer, richer, more balanced sound and the transformer less circuit of the TLM 103 giving a more direct, clean and uncolored (electronically; the capsule is where it's 'color' comes from) sound. From my experience with both, the U87 takes EQ a bit better since it's already very smooth, balanced and easy on the ears due to the transformer design. It's similar to why a Neve 1073 preamp is so beloved, there's something magical about passing audio through a perfectly matched transformer. Tubes can also have a similar pleasing effect, depending on the source. Just my humble opinion.
I wonder how different they would sound with a some high-frequency EQ to either broaden the presence boost on the U87Ai or tighten it up on the TLM103. The difference in frequency response was fairly obvious to me (and I correctly guessed which was which because I already knew the TLM103 to be brighter), but I'm not sure how much I'm really hearing beyond that. In theory the U87's trasformer-based design should have some impact on transient response and warmth/distortion, but I'm not sure I could pick that out. I'm pretty happy with my OC818's though. As you say, by the time you get up to any of these you're already winning sonically.
In a vocal booth 4x4x7 with treatment between walls and inside booth the 103 is very brittle vs a U87 where talking at a normal level one can be at 2 inches and no sizzle or proximity effect. Both with a 75hz hp filter at the apollo twin duo using an M1 John Hardy Preamp. Would like to hear a comparison between the u87 and TG Chandler on Cardioid for VO. Can send you the TG if you wish. Super video and guitar skills.
I may provide an unpopular opinion here ))) In the blind test, I clearly preferred A (TLM103), and - for the record - I am not the one who is usually inclined towards the brighter stuff. I just cannot help hearing way more overall transparency from the 103. The "smoother high end" of the U87 people are talking about does not sound any *qualitatively* better to me, just tamed, and this can be replicated in post with one hand movement )) But something tells me I won't be able to get the TLM103's transparency that easy while working on U87 files... just my weird opinion.
The U87 sounds better, I even recognised it in he blind test. It has more body. I own the 103, that might have helped. But we’re talking about a mic three times as expensive as the other one. Couldn’t justify to buy the U87, maybe if I would own a studio. I prefer the TLM to all budget condensers I know. Somehow I even like the pre-shaped EQ. Sounds record or broadcast ready without much work to do.
I think the tlm 103 is actually a good pick for All those homestudio cats i got a u87 ai and a tlm 103 my room is treated but not perfect what i recognize is that the tlm 103 sounds more forgiving to the room, sounds more upfront. U87 im a realy good room is a different Story.
I did guess right...but it was very close, "B" was ever so slightly "Smoother" If I didn't have my own show and didn't record my audiobook on a U87, I most likely wouldn't have been able to tell the difference. They're both great mics, and for the 3x price investment difference you do gain the multiple pattern options, but I don't think I've ever seen two people on the same mic, or use the U87's precise finesse for omni, seems a little counter-intuitive, but I suppose it's "Nice to have" as an option. Great video, thanks for making it along with the others, this isn't the only one I've watch :)
The TLM 103’s capsule being “inspired” by U87’s capsule used to confuse me back in the day, but as far as I understand it, the k103 capsule is literally just the front half of the U87 capsule (it being dual diaphragmed, if thats even a word). Also, the U87 also has an output transformer, and it audibly affects how the microphone reproduces lower frequencies. You can kinda hear how “tight” and “compressed” the U87 sounds in that regard, whereas transformerless microphones have more “realistic” lows, if that makes sense. Also, if memory serves, the U87 has built in eq to tame the high frequencies, and without that, it would have highs more similar to 103. So, for all intents and purposes the 103 is “just” a single diaphragm, transformerless U87, without the corrective EQ. Thats why it used to be marketed as the budget U87, or “the sound of U87 for only third of the price.”
Awesome test review! Question when you did the singing vocal test what was your vocal chan and recording sample rate 48khz etc... and are you using the Apollo converters? I notice when your were singing that both mic's sounded a lot smoother opposed to before when you were talking they both seem a little gritty sounding. Thanks very much for your time and knowledge. 🙂
Both of these are choice mics. I'd just like to say thank you for teaching me about sibilance. I used to call it "whispyness" or the SSSsssSSsss but now I know there is an actual _real_ word already to describe it and it has helped me hone my craft.
2 года назад+2
For about one third of the price, I know which one I'd choose.
Dude, you really have the skills and the voice to sing amazingly well - that voice of yours is well tuned to the guitar.... I'm serious. Have you ever considered going into music as well?
7:05 the acoustic guitar sounds breathtakingly amazing on the U87, as well as vocals. Singular electric guitar sounded okay, but after you layer the electric guitar patterns, it gets a bit blown out and muddled. The TLM 103 definitely handled the electric guitar just a bit better, especially when you layered the patterns up and it sounded much better than the U87 But for most cases, the U87 sounds just a tad better. The TLM definitely has its uses though and would probably be the way to go for most people, including myself lol. The U87 is better, but since it's $2500 canadian, id rather pick the TLM lol.
First, the TLM 103 has the same diaphragm as the U87. It's just housed in a different capsule. In my experience using both side by side, they sound like exactly what they are. The same Neumann center terminated diaphragm, one going through older transformer based electronics and the other going through more modern transformerless circuitry. The U87 sounds a tiny bit more intimate and a bit fatter but also a little less hifi and dirty compared to the TLM. There is also the famous U87 honk. The TLM 103 sounds a bit cleaner and more dimensional (3D?) but less intimate compared to the 87. The basic character is the same. The differences are marginal. But in this comparison, I was surprised how much smoother the U87 sounded. To my ear, that smoothness also seemed a bit "retro." This comparison makes me want to reverse something I've done occasionally. From this it seems it would be better to use the U87 for smoother backing tracks and the TLM 103 to make a vocal pop. I had thought the intimacy of the U87 would make a vocal pop more. But this example makes me think differently.
Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
@@BRADRANCH Sorry for such a late reply! I often can't hear a difference between double tracked instrument when one is the 87 and the other the 103. I once read a world famous recording engineer saying that nobody who listens to a finished song ever hears the difference between 20,000 dollar vintage mics and newer transistor mics. So by the time a project has been mixed and mastered, nobody would ever be able to hear the difference between these two!
I saw this thumbnails and out loud said “BROOOOOOOO”
Dude such a good video, I have always wanted this comparison.
I own a U87 and it is one of the best microphones that suits all audio materials, whether the voice is women or men, and it has great flexibility in polishing and smoothing the sound.
Thank you brother for this nice comparison
Danke!
Well it's a Neumann, can't go wrong with either one! Great comparison
i like your last name
I like the last part of your last name
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷👏🏻, U87 has less base! More clear, pure sounding! Awesome video, very informative!
For me the main difference is in the sibilants. The U87 is much smoother there. Doesn't mean that the 103 is harsh, but the overall SSSSSSes are much more pleasant for me, listening to the U87
Low mids as well - they just sound rounder where the 103 sounds a bit flat in comparison.
Please...if I only want a microphone for singing, why would I choose between them?
This was exactly my experience of the two mics. We had a U87ai in the production studio of a radio station I once worked in years ago. I loved how I sounded on it. But when I bought a TLM103, I was less than impressed. The S sounds were too sizzly for me. I prefer those S sounds to be smooth and transparent. They were anything but with the TLM 103.
i disagree, during the blind test i heard mic B to sound a little more abrasive with a thicker push in the mids, more punch you could say.
i found mic A to be quite a bit smoother and less "stop-and-go."
yeah. I think that's why the U87 works so well on acoustic guitar whereas the TLM103 never works in that context (unless paired with a smoother mic)
I was unable to tell which was which in the blind test, but it turns out that I liked the U87 Ai better. That made me smile when you revealed which was which, but I know it was only a coin toss. I'm a fan of your Versus Series, but that's only because you do such a great job with it. Thanks, BLT.
I listened several times. Cant tell a difference, for sure not an obvious difference.I've been recording for years and I;m thinking maybe I just cant hear well. All I could do was guess which was the 87.
Against other name brands I can pick the 87 out almost always. To me that 103 is excellent and I just have no reason to justify spending the 87 $$$$$
@@BRADRANCH This is accurate. The give away is always the higher frequencies, which are easily distinguishable against other brand mics, but these two mics both have the Neumann signature top end. So the difference would have to be found in the body and low end which can be more tricky to hear on headphones and budget speakers. I would not be sad owning either.
Oh man! I sweared Mic A was U87 in the blind test, it sounded better to me. Then you revealed them and U87 sounded better to me. My conclusion is: we are biased towards expensive microphones even though the slight differences don't justify to pay the triple, but if I could, I would buy U87.
The most accurate comment.
Kudos for the truest comment on RUclips. Our brains are powerful and high end gear desire will always lead our decision making. Uuuuunless we do the valued blind test and not give a 💩 what anyone else thinks.
And after saying all that…I still want a U87 too 🤣
Go get your ears checked 🤨
U 87 sounds a little fatter on voice which may not be the most desired thing always. Tlm 103 sounded a little thinner to me and I liked it finally personally. I think it because of the transformer less design. The transformer on the u87 gives fatness to the tone.
Put a real artist in front of the 2 microphones, and you will understand the difference in price. U87 is doing ART, others are just doing sound. It is applying for other high end microphones too.
The U87 Ai is just so much smoother in the high frequencies on the guitars! It sounded warmer on the vocals, but there really isn't much difference between the two, just a matter of preference at this point :)
I liked the sound of the U87 AI better in the blind test.
It's definitely cool to have access to them to do these tests, but they're both neat and I don't think anyone would feel bad about purchasing one versus the other.
Thank you Bandrew for this review… I ever appreciate your comments. 👍🏻
My TLM-103 is champagne colored and my U87 is black. Backwards of yours!
I did guess them correctly. The 103 is brighter but not quite as smooth on the top end and it's easy to pick out between the two.
Great comparison, Bandrew. I'd like to know your pick between the TLM 103 and the TLM 102 for voiceover purposes. I already have a TLM 102 and I'm pretty happy with it, but I have my doubts on whether I should upgrade it or not. Thank you!
He has an older vid thats a vs series of the 102 and 103
you didn't as me but I'll give my opinion: the 103 is amazing on deep voices but can sound harsh on higher pitched men and most women
whether trading up is worth it will depend on the talent's voice
As a user of the TLM 103, it's the very low self-noise vs 102 that got me going for it.
Big thanks for this comparison. I have only recently realized how bright the 103 actually is.
U87 was much preferred during the talking segments - but, funny enough, 103 did sound more... normal on the electric guitar, more like the sound you'd expect.
Very interesting to see the tonal differences. It's not that small of a difference. What I hear is as follows: 1. The TLM103 has more bass boost but also more harmonic color down there. You can really hear it on the off axis test when listening to the rear of the mic. It picks up a LOT of low end from the rear of the mic. 2. The treble is more boosted on the TLM103, you can hear it almost like a lazer beam on Bandrew's voice. It doesn't sound bad, it's just more apparent. 3. The u87ai's off axis colouration sounds rfar superior. 4. The dynamic character of the u87ai makes it worth the price alone. It's incredibly smooth and easy to listen to. It's like listening to something sitting by a fireplace drinking hot cocoa lol
Great comparison! I currently own the 103 and have the U87 on rent -- as soon as you spoke into the 103 I immediately knew which mic it was. It succeeds in having a high quality 'Neumann-esque' flavour, but the issue is in the low mids (100-400Hz), upper mids (around 5K), and high end (everything past 8K). The U87 actively sounds flattering in these ranges on most vocals and sources, whereas the 103 loses body and is overly sibilant and harsh. The 103 can be deceptively attractive at first as it is mostly a really great sounding mic overall, but unfortunately the issues in these frequency ranges become a bit of an achilles heel -- the inherent sibilant nature of the mic provides an uphill battle by the time it comes to mix, and the amount of processing required to counter the issues downstream involves compromises overall. The U87, on the other hand, has nice and tight yet full bodied lows, a beautiful midrange, and a smooth top end due to its high end roll off -- it starts strong and only gets better as you process it, and doesn't require nearly the time or effort as the 103. I was hoping to be able to get the 103 to sound close to the 87, but the time saved by only having to focus on getting a good take on the 87 and then feeling confident you'll get great results during mix down is itself worth the difference in price between the microphones in my opinion. The 103 is still a great sounding mic capable of good results, but I find there are so many problematic frequency areas and it requires a substantial amount of work downstream to get results that are even in the same ballpark as the U87.
This was really obvious to me in ther blind test. The top end on the 87 is just so smooth. BUTTER!
was excited enough about this one to bust out the good headphones. these are fun, i hope you keep doing them
I hate being boring, but my vintage 87s, and for that matter any 87, is just a perfect vocal microphone. Note the very even polar response. This gives a more consistent behavior in different setups. I’ve compared to many mics, my U47fet, my 1951 U47 tube which is in need of capsule cleaning so that’s not so fair. It’s not necessarily better, but just absolutely predictable. That helps me to work with new vocalists with fewer surprises.
Great Review Bandrew, as always. Both Extremely clean Mics. Every time I hear the U87, I see Lennon. The U87 is a little warmer, and can feel the depth more than the TLM 103. I agree as I thought the TLM 103 sounded better on the electric guitar, however the acoustic sounded better with the U87, to my ears. Vocals over the Electric guitar tracks go to the U87 as well.
Correct findings.
love the song! well done man, great comparison!!
I passed the blind test successfully, I already knew that U87 Ai is “warmer” from other comparison videos, it has some bump in the mids comparing to TLM 103. I’m not sure if I can tell which one I would prefer over another judging only the sound. I think it depends on the purpose. TLM 103 definitely wins the guitars test. I even disliked the sound of U87 Ai for guitars, not only liked TLM 103 more. TLM 103 has less “body” and more “crystallness”/“clearness” of the highs. I think I would prefer TLM 103 for spoken word (at least for your voice) and for singing U87 Ai. But for the spoken word I think I would prefer TLM 102 over TLM 103. And TLM 103 for singing over TLM 102. They all are pretty good and it’s not easy to tell which one you would like less or more.
@GRiiMy I have no idea. Rap is not my thing, I don’t listen to it.
Hey Bandrew, I really like your "versus series"! But you know this already. I appreciate, that you made clear that both of these microphones are great. But there is one point, where I have a different opinion. For acoustic guitar I like the U87 much more than the 103. The sound of the acoustic guitar opened up, was very clear and natural to my ears. I'd always prefer the U87 for this purpose.
This comment says it all.
For me, you just hear more of the sound with the u87ai.
But also having a 103 would be an amazing stepping stone at 1/3 the cost.
They sound so similar!🤯
Also, first
Thanks so much for your Vidz Brandrew! Before I buy any mic, I watch your reviews first. Could you please, please do a review or comparison for the new UT Twin87 vs U87ai. Thanks!
I love em both. The U87 is my favorite though.
I'd be perfectly happy with the 103, but would use it in full expectation that - for many sources & purposes - a couple of db of lowpass cut around 5khz would be helpful, to tame that sizzle a bit.
I definitely determined which mic was which, the 103 is quite bright, U87 is very smooth. Great video, thank you!
Thanks for taking the time for all the examples!! The U87 sounded great. Sooo expensive though.
I was actually kinda surprised how different these two mics sound. I wasn't expecting the 103 to sound so bright in comparison. Also kind of surprised it took you so long to make this video. Lol
Amazing as always my friend! I sincerely couldn’t tell a difference on the blind test so, as you said, we who own any of these mics is the winners.
Your musical skill and artistry is well appreciated, thank you
Love you man, keep up the good work!
We own a TLM103 and a U87 in our studio for many years. Many people forgot about the Art of recording and the Art of Microphone Knowledge. Biggest mistake we always see is that people compare DIFFERENT Microphones in the exact SAME position. EVERY Microphone got a DIFFERENT sweet spot, it might not be a big difference, but before you test two or more microphones against eachother, you have to find out in which position and with which preamp (not every chain works with every mic the same way!) each microphone sounds THE BEST. Only that way you can get a fair comparison. The K103 is actually the front side of the K87 and the capsule is responsible for 70-90% of the sound. Since the capsules are close to be similar the sound shouldn't be too far away. And surprise, it isn't. If you bring the TLM103 in its sweet spot its NEVER harsh or anything like this. People hating on the TLM103 and loving the sound of the U87 know nothing about the true Art of Recording. Also its very important to mention that the output transformer of the U87Ai is extremely transparent and neutral. So no matter with which microphone your going, you will get GREAT results as long as you got a great Talent infront of the microphone and a engineer who knows what he's doing.
Thank you ALL ELITE MUSIC. Thats the best comment Ive seen. And makes the most sense. I have a 103 and feel like I dont need an 87 mic. But Ive spent time with the 103 and know its habits well. When I sing on an 87 I feel I need to Eq it, with the 103 it feels ready before EQ. Thats just on my VX though, Another might not be the same. I dont own an 87 but have had them in my studio and sang on them in Nashville studios and I really love the 103 and dont feel Im coming up short at all. Both are great.
Hermoso todo lo que aquí se comenta todo es super genial .Quisiera preguntar cual seria ese punto óptimo para el tlm103 que se menciona , saludos un gran abrazo a todos .
Thank you man! Great and helpful job! Best of luck!
Huuuuge difference when it comes to proximity effect performance, I guess PE is where ultra expensive mics shine. the U87 did an amazing job maintaining clarity!
Awesome video as always Bandrew!
Quick Note: the link in the description for the "HQ Audio Of Video" is currently innacurate. The current web address has no capital letters:
"tlm103vsu87ai" vs
"TLM103vsU87ai" (current address link)
Cont:
I did not guess the mirophones correctly :,<
I would have expected the U87 to have more mid presence, but I was completely backwards. The TLM 103 is so strong on baritone and bass voices, I wouldn't have guessed it had such forward mids! I preferred the U87's smoother approach to the mids; it feels very clean and clear and smooth! However, the 103 doesn't seem harsh. Both microphones have that Neumann "sheen" on the high frequencies that maintains clarity without being sibilant or harsh.
I totally guessed right! Thanks for this Versus, Bandrew!
Both sound great, and I agree that the U87 wins, but it’s maybe harder to justify the price difference. I will say I felt like the U87 sounded better on your electric guitar test (I guess I’m a sucker for the more mid-forward sound you mentioned!), and I think adjusting the U87’s position slightly for the acoustic test could have made that the clear winner. As always, thanks for making it easier for the rest of us to make informed purchases!
proud to say i guessed it correct, but it definitely took some close listening. thanks for the thorough content, keep it up!
103 is 16 more than 87, QED. ;-) Great comparison.
It's 16 more so it's 16 better!
@@Podcastage exactamente!
@@BoothJunkie Two peas in a pot.😁
The TLM isn't a bad mic by any chance, but here, it sounds a bit thin in the low end, and the high end is a bit brittle in comparison. You're better off buying the OC-818 for a similar budget if you want a smoother, more neutral response.
Or better yet, just get a Shure KSM32 or a KSM44, both two awesome for the price, although they may look a bit outdated aestheticaly
I’d prefer the 103 for electric guitar, and the 87 on the acoustic guitar. For sung voice, I’d prefer the 103, for narration maybe the 87. but, as you pointed out, it a matter of taste. Both are great microphones!
We can always count on you for concentrated information. Thanks.
Thank You for the amazing comparison Bandrew. Love both but I like the TLM Neumann Series better. Love the smooth approach and articulation of the U87Ai on the accoustic guitar though. ' Me talking about articulation lol. Learned so much from Bandrew.
I judged them right, but they are very close. The TLM 103 is a little crisper to me. I bought a TLM 102 a bit back for my personal studio and think I should have just bought the 103, but the 102 is a great mic too. I don't see ever buying a U87. It just doesn't seem worth the cost to me. There are others mics for far less that seem great for my vocals.
I could tell right away that B was the U87 sound full and smooth
I love these helpful videos, also because I like intro: “Greetings Earthlings.” 💛
Great Review! Still heart to choose... i got the TLM 102, now thinking of U87 or TLM 103... ahhh....
This ia GREAT review, as I was looking into these two very mics. Thank you!
The very slight forwardness in the low mids of the 87 is what makes it the perfect vocal mic for me. It is a signature of all the old Neumann mics and decidedly missing in the TLMs, which are probably more flat. It may even be a contribution of the transformer. It is a very broad boost of perhaps 1-2dB with a Q lower than many console EQs can even manage. I would not be unhappy to see a 102 or 103 when visiting in a studio if I was not traveling my 87s. They share much of the magic smoothness in the heart of the vocal range as well as the legendary overhead.
I guessed these right immediately. I'd love to hear a comparison review of the Serrano Vintage 87.
Would so love a comparison on the neumann tlm 107 and the earthworks ethos. also do you think one or the other is better for room tone rejection? outside sound etc. which do you think has a better tone overall for vocals?
I liked them both for different things, but in preferred the Tlm 103 more. I agree with your final assessment.
Yippie!! I guessed right. Oddly, I felt I heard the smallest amount of distortion in the U87 in voice.
The U87 sound quite different than the TLM103 both guitars, perhaps less in voice.
I liked the TLM103 better on voice, but the U87 on the guitar, though I don't know what the guitar is supposed to sound like.
Won't make my voice sound better : (
the thing that is most interesting to me is that...I'm a pro...in a studio..on pro gear...and while I can hear some subtle differences in the blind A/B...what is messing with my mind is that when you show yourself speaking into each one the difference is waaaaaaaaaaay more obvious. Somehow...my brain is hearing it differently with a visual aspect.
I've checked it multiple times and every time during the A/B they sound more similar than in the video reveal. Maybe some slight mic position difference?
It's wild.
Curious savethefails, Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
You do a great job with these series.
Thanks for all these great comparisons! It would be great if you'd do a comparison of the Neumanns with the K89 capsule: the U89 (intended as an improvement of the U87), the TLM 193 and, my favorite, the TLM 170.
If only Neumanns wasn’t so expensive.. Great video though! 💪
If the 103 might be a little too bright, the 102 could be a option on a budget.
Would love a review of the TLM 107 :3
2:11 mic A has SLIGHTLY more latency and B sounds just a bit more neutral and balanced. But both sound absolutely phenomenal, if I wasnt wearing headphones for this, they would sound identical IMHO.
seems like if the use it vocals. TLM103 is fine and perfect, especially if you just have it mounted by your desk where you make stuff and could benefit from the off axis rejection. If you have a room to record actual room tone/noise along with the performance and want to use omni mode, OR a fully treated vocal booth, THEN the u87 ai makes sense. But the difference is so negligible for small/home studio use that I think if you can't make the TLM103 sound good maybe you don't yet deserve the u87 ai haha.
I like this , good breakdown bro
Can you make a video about in-ear monitors for stage performance???
definitely law of diminishing returns on the 87ai vs the tlm 103. i LOVE-LOVE my 103 and after getting it dialed for spoken voice work, it is the de facto standard for speech, especially with lower voice registers. i can run the 103 "dry" (no pre and no comp), and it still sounds pro level. plus, the 103 is literally dead quiet. if one must have a brand name for the U87ai, then they have to buy the neumann. it's that simple, and the value proposition at that point and for those folks simply doesn't matter. for those who are looking for value and/or can't afford $4k for an 87ai, the stam audio SA-87i owns the clone roost. it is really as good as the real neumann 87ai. same caps, circuitry, nearly identical module. thanks for your videos. sub'd.
Thanks for doing this one. Good to hear them together. In my humble opinion, the heavier LF of the 103 works much better for you on voice. The boosted mids of the 87 is less flattering for you I think. Possibly a little ‘nasal’?
Agree
Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
Either one is great to just put up and go with minimum set up. You know if things don't sound as good as you want, it's because of you. NOT the mic. As was noted: Will it make ME sound good? Did you sound good before? Can I cut Hits with them? Did you cut Hits Before? Roll the tape.
I'm curious where the Warm Audio WA-87 R2 stands in the Neumann U87 Ai/TLM103, and Rode NT-1 style mic. Is it a decent budget U87? Does it crush the NT-1 given their pricing? Love your videos, they have taught me so much.
he gave it a really good review. I have one I use for voice and guitar and I love it
@@artcamp7 I'll have to go digging through all his videos now. I'm going to need to get a lot more thumbs ups out of the bag.
Both are fantastic microphones. The blind test was easy since I own both mics. I think it boils down to the transformer giving the U87 a softer, richer, more balanced sound and the transformer less circuit of the TLM 103 giving a more direct, clean and uncolored (electronically; the capsule is where it's 'color' comes from) sound. From my experience with both, the U87 takes EQ a bit better since it's already very smooth, balanced and easy on the ears due to the transformer design. It's similar to why a Neve 1073 preamp is so beloved, there's something magical about passing audio through a perfectly matched transformer. Tubes can also have a similar pleasing effect, depending on the source. Just my humble opinion.
I wonder how different they would sound with a some high-frequency EQ to either broaden the presence boost on the U87Ai or tighten it up on the TLM103. The difference in frequency response was fairly obvious to me (and I correctly guessed which was which because I already knew the TLM103 to be brighter), but I'm not sure how much I'm really hearing beyond that. In theory the U87's trasformer-based design should have some impact on transient response and warmth/distortion, but I'm not sure I could pick that out.
I'm pretty happy with my OC818's though. As you say, by the time you get up to any of these you're already winning sonically.
Could you do a comparison between Marantz mpm-1000 vs Audio Technica at2020, please?
In a vocal booth 4x4x7 with treatment between walls and inside booth the 103 is very brittle vs a U87 where talking at a normal level one can be at 2 inches and no sizzle or proximity effect. Both with a 75hz hp filter at the apollo twin duo using an M1 John Hardy Preamp. Would like to hear a comparison between the u87 and TG Chandler on Cardioid for VO. Can send you the TG if you wish. Super video and guitar skills.
Not looking at my phone microphone a sounded the best on your voice
I feel the u87 ai microphone sounds a little dull right out the box
Nice comparison! Both sound great, but the U87 takes the cake.
I may provide an unpopular opinion here ))) In the blind test, I clearly preferred A (TLM103), and - for the record - I am not the one who is usually inclined towards the brighter stuff. I just cannot help hearing way more overall transparency from the 103. The "smoother high end" of the U87 people are talking about does not sound any *qualitatively* better to me, just tamed, and this can be replicated in post with one hand movement )) But something tells me I won't be able to get the TLM103's transparency that easy while working on U87 files... just my weird opinion.
The U87 sounds better, I even recognised it in he blind test. It has more body. I own the 103, that might have helped. But we’re talking about a mic three times as expensive as the other one. Couldn’t justify to buy the U87, maybe if I would own a studio. I prefer the TLM to all budget condensers I know. Somehow I even like the pre-shaped EQ. Sounds record or broadcast ready without much work to do.
Whats preamp and audio interface? Nice sound
Awesome as always, Bandrew. Would love for you to compare the Sennheiser MKH 416 vs the TLM103.
now we need a U89i test 🤟
Bro personally think that TLM 103 suits you in all ways!!! You must use TLM 103 as a Primary Mic for your videos
I think the tlm 103 is actually a good pick for All those homestudio cats i got a u87 ai and a tlm 103 my room is treated but not perfect what i recognize is that the tlm 103 sounds more forgiving to the room, sounds more upfront. U87 im a realy good room is a different Story.
I did guess right...but it was very close, "B" was ever so slightly "Smoother" If I didn't have my own show and didn't record my audiobook on a U87, I most likely wouldn't have been able to tell the difference. They're both great mics, and for the 3x price investment difference you do gain the multiple pattern options, but I don't think I've ever seen two people on the same mic, or use the U87's precise finesse for omni, seems a little counter-intuitive, but I suppose it's "Nice to have" as an option. Great video, thanks for making it along with the others, this isn't the only one I've watch :)
Great Review! They sounded very similar to me. I'm listening on Sennheiser HD280 pro headphones.
Heads up to anyone near Nashville...I went to their Guitar Center the other day and they actually had a TLM 103 set up for testing!
The TLM 103’s capsule being “inspired” by U87’s capsule used to confuse me back in the day, but as far as I understand it, the k103 capsule is literally just the front half of the U87 capsule (it being dual diaphragmed, if thats even a word).
Also, the U87 also has an output transformer, and it audibly affects how the microphone reproduces lower frequencies. You can kinda hear how “tight” and “compressed” the U87 sounds in that regard, whereas transformerless microphones have more “realistic” lows, if that makes sense.
Also, if memory serves, the U87 has built in eq to tame the high frequencies, and without that, it would have highs more similar to 103.
So, for all intents and purposes the 103 is “just” a single diaphragm, transformerless U87, without the corrective EQ.
Thats why it used to be marketed as the budget U87, or “the sound of U87 for only third of the price.”
Patiently waiting for the Telefunken TF47 review😳
Awesome test review! Question when you did the singing vocal test what was your vocal chan and recording sample rate 48khz etc... and are you using the Apollo converters? I notice when your were singing that both mic's sounded a lot smoother opposed to before when you were talking they both seem a little gritty sounding. Thanks very much for your time and knowledge. 🙂
Great video. Thank you dude.
I couldn't tell the difference until you stacked the guitars. I preferred the 87.
Both of these are choice mics. I'd just like to say thank you for teaching me about sibilance. I used to call it "whispyness" or the SSSsssSSsss but now I know there is an actual _real_ word already to describe it and it has helped me hone my craft.
For about one third of the price, I know which one I'd choose.
Dude, you really have the skills and the voice to sing amazingly well - that voice of yours is well tuned to the guitar.... I'm serious. Have you ever considered going into music as well?
7:05 the acoustic guitar sounds breathtakingly amazing on the U87, as well as vocals. Singular electric guitar sounded okay, but after you layer the electric guitar patterns, it gets a bit blown out and muddled.
The TLM 103 definitely handled the electric guitar just a bit better, especially when you layered the patterns up and it sounded much better than the U87
But for most cases, the U87 sounds just a tad better. The TLM definitely has its uses though and would probably be the way to go for most people, including myself lol. The U87 is better, but since it's $2500 canadian, id rather pick the TLM lol.
@Podcastage Testing BCM104? Maybe best described as a Speech optimized version of the Tlm103.
I could totally hear the difference in the blind test. The TLM was notably brighter. The U87 sounded much warmer.
I couldn't find the U87 on a price comparison site in Norway, but I did get the shock mount listed. For over 300 dollars.. 🤕
I have 2 tlm103 I bought a U87 and sent it back. Was not happy with it. But I only use the 103 for instruments.
is it bad that 103 has 50ohms impedance? i mean u87 has 200ohms but i thought that the less the ohms the better the microphone? am i wrong?
@podcastage do you have any plans to look at u67 vs TLM102.
those two are my top picks for neumans.
Okay, easy choice, the parameter or framework is as such: bigger is better in this instance...
Uncle Ry-Ry said he knew 100% "B" mic...
Thanks for sharing your input on it.
First, the TLM 103 has the same diaphragm as the U87. It's just housed in a different capsule. In my experience using both side by side, they sound like exactly what they are. The same Neumann center terminated diaphragm, one going through older transformer based electronics and the other going through more modern transformerless circuitry. The U87 sounds a tiny bit more intimate and a bit fatter but also a little less hifi and dirty compared to the TLM. There is also the famous U87 honk. The TLM 103 sounds a bit cleaner and more dimensional (3D?) but less intimate compared to the 87. The basic character is the same. The differences are marginal. But in this comparison, I was surprised how much smoother the U87 sounded. To my ear, that smoothness also seemed a bit "retro." This comparison makes me want to reverse something I've done occasionally. From this it seems it would be better to use the U87 for smoother backing tracks and the TLM 103 to make a vocal pop. I had thought the intimacy of the U87 would make a vocal pop more. But this example makes me think differently.
Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
@@BRADRANCH Sorry for such a late reply! I often can't hear a difference between double tracked instrument when one is the 87 and the other the 103. I once read a world famous recording engineer saying that nobody who listens to a finished song ever hears the difference between 20,000 dollar vintage mics and newer transistor mics. So by the time a project has been mixed and mastered, nobody would ever be able to hear the difference between these two!