I know it was only a matter of minutes for us, but the entire process took you almost a full year! I know you're patient, but waiting that long isn't just patience, Rob ... it's saintly! Personally, whether it's right, wrong, or indifferent... I'm more of an, instant gratification kind of guy... so I'm always on the lookout for ways to speed up the process. I'm sure you've tried all of this stuff before, but if not, maybe you can cut the time down to 21 weeks for your next batch! *Note: Everything discussed below is focused on increasing the abrasive's rate of decay. The quicker it decays, the sooner you can replenish. The more frequently you can replenish the more material it can abate. The faster it abates, the less time it takes to get smooth. The quicker it gets smooth, the less time it takes to get shiny. The faster they get shiny, the more loads you can polish. The more loads you can polish, the more videos you can release. The more videos you release, the happier your subscribers will be. The happier your subscribers are, the more batches they'll tumble. The more batches they tumble, the more grit they consume. The more grit they consume, the more grit they will buy from your affiliate link. The more sales through your affiliate link, the more money you make. The more money you make, the more grit you can buy. The more grit you can buy, the more batches you can tumble. The quicker you can tumble your batches, the more videos you can make...and on, and on, and on... In other words... It's a cyclical cycle of circular collisions. Constantly clashing and changing positions. Patiently pacing while polishing with precision. Reliably recording and rendering revisions. While serendipitously satisfying subscribers submissions, and amazingly making a meager commission. 1.) Do you have any larger grit abrasives that you could use, like a 35/70 SiC? Normally, the larger abrasives don't result in faster abatement, because there's not enough weight to fracture the SiC. But with a 12# barrel, and large material, you can get away with a larger particle size, because the added weight can overcome the fracture toughness of SiC. 2.) Do you have the ability to adjust the rotation rate of the barrel in your tumbling closet? The faster you can spin the barrel, the faster you can be done. I wouldn't suggest going much over 32-35 RPM though, otherwise you just beat everything up too hard. Even if your motor isn't variable speed, if you increase the circumference of the roller in contact with the barrel, it results in higher RPMs. I had a friend from work print me a pair of plastic roller sleaves on his 3D printer, that I just slide over the drive shaft when I want it to go fast, and take them off when I'm done. At one point, I read an article regarding the mathematics behind the physics involved, and please don't quote me on this, but an increased rate of revolution results in at least a 10%-15% increase in the rate of abrasive decay. 3.) I know you often grind and/or cut your rocks to remove imperfections before you tumble them... but have you ever tried taking it a step further and ground down the edges to pre-shape your rough before you put them in the tumbler? What takes 30 seconds on your cabber, takes weeks in your tumbler. And honestly, we keep running them in stage 1 mainly for shaping and blemish removal. Rocks are typically smooth enough to advance to the next stage after only a few days. 4.) I know we talked about this a bit while we were on the Keweenaw, but a good grit carrier, such as Old Miser, makes a world of difference. Traditionally, when rocks collide in the tumbler, we are banking on the hopes that there are abrasives between the two collision surfaces in order to abate. But with the particles suspended in water, when the surfaces collide, the pressure causes the water to shoot out, often taking the grit with it. This is especially true when tumbling harder material (like crazy lace), where the slurry tends to stay watery. Sometimes people add borax, as a "slurry thickener." Which I've always thought defeats the purpose, since Borax works as a surfactant, and it takes the grit out of solution and stops it from sticking to surfaces (which is why it's effective during cleaning/"burnishing" stages... which I don't personally do). The Old Miser grit carrier is a type of clay, which sticks to the rocks, and the grit sticks to the clay. With all of those things combined, it has cut my stage 1 grind time almost in half! I fill my 15# Model B 3/4 of the way full with rocks, add 1# of 35/70 SiC, and 4 tsp of Old Miser grit carrier (1 tsp for every 4 oz of grit). Running at around 32 RPMs, the grit is spent after ~3 days. Let me know if you have any questions. I love talking about this stuff! If not, I hope you enjoyed the little poem I wrote for you! 😁
Wow, that's the longest comment I've seen in a long time! Here are my responses, Will: 1.) I bought some 35/70 at Kingsley North last summer, but I'm still working on the 100 lbs. of 46/70 I bought from the Rock Shed before that. So, I haven't used it but I will. 2.) I year or two ago, I changed the pulley on the motor to a smaller diameter. I did this after seeing how fast my Nat Geo tumbler ground rocks. I think the Nat Geo is way too fast, but I did speed mine up a bit. 3.) I do this sometimes but not often. This is for a couple reasons. First, it takes more time and it's sort of boring. The tumbler takes longer, but it does all the work and I only touch them once a week. Second, a tumbler wheel costs about $100. I can get about a year's worth of grit for about the same amount. I'm cheap and think it's cheaper and easier to roll them in the tumbler. I haven't actually experimented to see if it's cheaper, but I suspect it is. 4.) A few years ago on the Rock Tumbling Hobby forums there was a lot of discussion about adding clay (usually kitty litter) to the barrel to thicken the slurry. I can't remember if you are on RTH, but James P. is a big proponent of clay. I tried it but found that it made my slurry too thick and it was harder to clean out the barrel. I suppose I could have stuck with it longer and dialed in the amount better, but I didn't. I do believe that it probably makes a difference. Speaking for myself and no one else, I'm not in that much of a hurry. I've been doing this long enough that I'm not as impatient as I was when doing my first few batches. I don't actually want to clean the barrels more than once a week. That being said, I'm teaching a lot of new tumblers who do not feel the same way, so I should probably do some experiments along these lines. I really appreciate the time you spent typing this up and I'm going to pin this to the top of the comments. I'm also going to think seriously about doing an experiment with slurry thickeners. I just have to think about how to best do the experiment. I have some ideas already.
@@MichiganRocks If that was the longest comment, then prepare yourself for the longest reply to a reply... 🤣 I hear you about the boring part. A friend of mine from Australia (Paul Hardie) produces phenomenal results, and he spends hours pre-shaping all of his rocks. I tried it a few times, but gave up after about 2 hours, when I realized I hadn't even filled 1/4 of the barrel! However, I will fix the big blemishes that aren't likely to go away. I can see why you would be turned off on using clay, if you tried kitty litter. Way too sticky and hard to clean up. The Old Miser I use is nothing like that. It's a fine tan/orange powder, and doesn't clump or get sticky. When I say it sticks to the rocks, I don't mean it in the way that dirt/mud sticks to rocks. It forms more of a film... It's hard to describe, and it's a little weird. It has a viscosity similar to water. If you take a clean rock and dip it in the slurry, when you pull it out, it will have a thin coating, like water. You can stick it back in the slurry and swish it around like you're trying to clean it, but when you take it out, it still has the thin coating of clay... but not solid clay, it's liquid clay (if that makes sense). Actually, it doesn't act as a slurry thickener, but as a slurry enhancer. The slurry doesn't get any thicker because if it... It's also very easy to clean off. Just dump it in a colander, and give it a couple rinses of fresh water, and it comes right off. I'll send you enough for a barrel or two and you can try it out to see if you like it. A thought on running your experiments... The hardest part is setting your controls. Without consistent controls, you can't truly measure the effects of your variables. Therefore, given the variability of material hardness, density, and shape of natural rocks, you can't really use rocks to run tests related to tumbling rocks (oh, the irony)... The experiment I mentioned in my original comment about barrel speed, solved that problem by tumbling ceramic media, and then weighing it in order to determine the resultant change in mass, which they then compared to the baseline set by their control group. The ceramic media pellets/cylinders are fairly uniform in size and hardness. You wouldn't need to count out every piece and use the same number of ceramics per test, as long as you used the same size, you could probably get away with just using the same weight as a control... That being said, I'm sure a purist could (successfully) argue that an increased count of ceramics results in more collisionable surfaces, thus increasing the total abated mass. So if you wanted to be as precise as possible, you would want to control the weight and the count of the ceramic media used in each experiment. Sounds kinda fun, if you ask me! 😉 Let me know if you want to brainstorm about this with someone, or just to bounce around some ideas. I have plenty of thoughts I will happily share.
@@MrTurtleMontana I'm going to order some Old Miser and give it a try. I'm also going to try kitty litter since that has been discussed so much on RTH. When I have done experiments before, I did them with rocks. I just buy a lot of the same kind of rock, then put rocks of similar size in each barrel. I literally made three piles of rocks trying to get each individual rock in each barrel to be the same weight. I realize that shape matters too, but if the results are different enough, I think it's still possible to learn something. Take a look at these two videos: Does Sand Make Good Tumbling Grit? ruclips.net/video/rk1DEqyH8Pc/видео.html Year Long Tumble (Compares aluminum oxide to silicon carbide): ruclips.net/video/hcRttq9bSrY/видео.html
One of the best parts of these videos is seeing your impressive wardrobe. As a Michigan Alum and yes, season ticket holder, it warms my heart. Go Blue, Beat Ohio State!
💎 That Work of Art looks out of this world : Origin The Moons of Jupiter ! What I learned ; Tumbling rocks takes way WAY longer than I imagined Rock & Roll All Night & Tumble Rocks Everyday 🎉
You definitely put the effort in on that crazy lace, but it was worth it. That crazy lace is polished beautifully. Well done sir. Keep the goodness coming. Be happy, safe and stay healthy.😷⚒
Old disabled house bound dusty rusty rockhound here: Awsome rocks. Crazy lace has been a life long favorite of mine... Thanks for the inspiration and education you provide for our new to the field rockhounds among us! 😀
That was so cool! To have tumbled that whole huge chunk of crazy lace, and have it come out that awesome, you know it had to be Rob! You are the only person i know who could have pulled that off and gotten that great of result! Just amazing!
@@MichiganRocks I just so happen to disagree with you on that one, Rob. Sure, other people may have been able to achieve a comparable polish, but the number of those people is very small, because there aren't many out there who have the patience to wait 42 weeks! That's special! Also, nobody else cares enough about 94 thousand people (most of whom they've never met), to invest the time, effort, and expense required to record, edit, and publish a video for all to enjoy and learn from. That's special! And finally, you're a die-hard Michigan Wolverines fan, who pronounces his support at every opportunity. That's special too!... wait... that's a different kind of special. Never mind... 😉 GO GREEN!!
@@MrTurtleMontana Ok, you have a point about the patience. It was actually only 36 weeks (although 42 is my favorite number). Otherwise, it's not that difficult.
@@MichiganRocks You're right, once you figure it out, the process isn't very difficult. Which is why I like to challenge myself with different techniques, more challenging material, etc.. Aside from that, I will airways struggle with one aspect... Delayed gratification. 🤣 42 is also my favorite number! Is it because of Deep Thought?
That came out really cool! I just finished my first tumble recently and they came out great. I attribute that to all the things I have learned on your channel so thank you for the excellent videos!
I agree with you Gabe. Just finished my first batch too. Rob is definitely a great teacher. And I like that he answers questions. I know I wouldn't have tired tumbling without watching his videos. Blessed to have his channel on RUclips.
Love all of your videos. You, the tumbler, grit, water, filler, time, and years of experience combined to make an awesome polished stone. Crazy lace is one of my favorite stones. Thank You for all of your time and experience to bring us closer to nature. I believe that nature is God.
Anyone can do this, it just takes patience. I have always hoped to get people to have better results faster by watching my videos. I don't believe that nature IS God, but that God created nature. He did an amazing job, too!
Another beautiful tumble! Crazy lace agates will never disappoint and just amaze me! I'm just one of many here, who I know are so appreciative of the incredible effort you put into the finding to finished. We get the luxury of just sitting and watching something sort of magically take place right before our eyes. Its what we do not see -- the extraordinary behind the scenes time and devotion you give to the rockhounding/lapidary process. Thanks so much, Rob!
You're welcome. What you really don't see is me moving cameras and lights around and sitting on the couch for hours editing videos. The tumbling stuff you don't see is just fun.
Rob I really loved this behind-the-scenes look at how the tumbler works. I only had a vague idea of the steps & materials before this. It’s magical that you threw in a giant chunk of stone & out came an incredibly gorgeous & shiny masterpiece! Thanks for the demo. 😊
I love crazy lace agates. I have a couple small ones that were given to me to polish. Turned out so beautiful. Yours is so amazing. Just so much going on with it. I could spend the whole day looking it over.
Wow that turned out amazing! I agree I like the same side you do. The Rock Shed and Kingsley North are both great places to buy from. Thanks Rob for sharing your videos and information with us. Much appreciated!
Absolutely beautiful! I love when agates are polished so you can really appreciate their beauty, when they’re cut and polished or just polished whole. I know a lot of people like them natural, but not me!
I'm glad I could teach you something. I just watched one of your videos and it looks like you know a thing or two already. I love your idea of leaving rocks around for other people to find.
Wow. Beautiful. I love crazy lace agate. It was worth the 36 weeks. The red side is my favorite. You have to make that a coffee table rock. It’s a treasure.
That's a great idea. The only problem I see with it is that you'd have to be careful to not leave any areas where grit could get trapped. I mostly only use my barrels for the first stage of tumbling (I finish most rocks in my Lot-O) so that wouldn't really be a problem for me. I'm seriously considering doing that.
Crazy lace is just such a unique rock, and tumbling really brings out the features and coloration. I wouldn't worry about the fractures; it's hard to find a large piece that doesn't have them....
After the first tumble I thought it kinda looked how imagine a chunk of a giant octopus tentacle would look. Amazing final result. I know you’ve heard it before but I like the cracks. Keeps it looking organic.
I have a smaller piece of crazy lace that's all eyes on one side and black and white on the other. I've shown it here a couple times, so you've probably seen it. It is crazy how it can change so much in such a short distance.
Mother nature brings us so much beauty. And this one was definitely,beautiful. Wished you would have shown us how the little ones turned out. Thank you for sharing.
Most of the small crazy lace was done before the big one and was moved on to the Lot-O tumbler. I used some other rocks, mostly desert jasper and also some smaller saw scraps to fill the barrel for the final three stages. I thought it would be confusing to include all of those and would make the video longer, so instead, I'll do some "Rocks in a Box" episodes later to show those.
This wasn't really supposed to be an instructional video. I have several of those though, if you're interested in hearing more details about what I do.
@@MichiganRocks It would be cool to see a 12lb rotary tumble tutorial video with various rock sizes, specifically, when to put ceramics in, how much, if you use plastic pellets, how much, etc. Also maybe for the Lotto?
@@edwardrick7388 I have videos like that. They're not with a 12 lb barrel, but the techniques are the same: Rotary tumbler followed by vibratory tumbler: ruclips.net/video/ksrmpPZrAuU/видео.html Rotary tumbler with ceramics: ruclips.net/video/dYGFal0e1WY/видео.html Rotary tumbler with plastic pellets: ruclips.net/video/EnNvywwztr8/видео.html
Very cool, the guys at the Rock Shed were all hyped when I mentioned Michigan Rocks the last big order I gave them. The project went incredibly well, now I’m going to have to shop some chunks of that Crazy Lace! That stuff is just so beautiful. It’s up there with the Ohio flint, in my opinion.
I also ended up ordering my last batch of grit from the Rock Shed because of Michigan Rocks. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but if Michigan Rocks is recommending it, then you know it has to be good. Jeez, now I sound like a shill for the Rock Shed! I swear, I'm not! LOL.
@@MichiganRocks No pressure intended! It's just that it's obvious to all of us that you have high standards, and so we know we can trust your recommendations based on that alone! Keep up the good work!
@@Dr.ChrisThompson I ordered 3 packages from Rock Shed. Over 1000$ in two weeks. 2 of the 3 orders were missing items, including one package missing a $300 tumbler. How do you miss that? Not even an offer of a small discount for future order or any offer. Very disappointed. Spending that kind of money to have hundreds of dollars not shipped was not a great experience. I know it's only one experience, but to this customer, they didn't really show they cared about me after getting my money. If it isn't common, I must be very unlucky to have it happen twice in such a short time. I wish I hadn't heard of them being recommended so highly. I had the opposite experience.
Hi Rob, WOW!!! That came out fantastic!!! It's gorgeous!!! Lucky you!!! I have a 15 pound tumbler I've done some larger rocks in and they've come out great too. But not as good as yours because I don't have the patience to wait as long as you do, lol. Once I see their beauty, I need to hold them, look at them tirelessly and find their special place to shine. Thank you for having the 'intestinal fortitude' to wait so long!!! LOL!!! Hi Nancy!!! Take care. Hugs!!! 😊
I've been doing this for a long time, and I have a lot of other barrels to play with so I'm pretty patient. Waiting a long time doesn't really bother me at all.
That turned out so very nicely!! That was awesome! I got my first batch of rocks out of final polish last weekend. For my first try since my only other real attempt failed when I was a young kid, I'm quite pleased with the results. I have my dedicated rock tumbler base built and running now. I used my home made PVC pipe barrels for the first batch. My second batch is started now on the new base using the barrels from the old Beacon Star tumbler I bought at an estate sale. Those barrels are about 12-15 pound capacity also. They appear to be very similar in size and design to a Thumler's Model B barrel. I'm trying to get a couple of 12lb and a 6lb Lortone barrel to run on this tumbler, but these Beacon Star barrels will work fine until then. The Lortone ones are sold out everywhere. Thank you again for all your great videos. Thanks to your help, I managed what I considered a. Very successful first batch. I also got a full appreciation for why you don't mess with tumbling granite very much. I will keep learning but some of my rocks turned out really great. I'm still considering starting a second channel for this.
I'm glad you're having success. That first batch is hard to wait for. Most people don't have the patience to wait long enough to get really awesome results. I think granite is something you need to experience for yourself to really appreciate why I don't appreciate it. It took me several batches of it to learn. Keep an eye on Craig's list or eBay for used barrels. I found some that way and they were like new.
@@MichiganRocks It is a bit of a test of patience waiting for the first batch to finish up. I was happy enough with the ones that did really well that it made the batch feel worthwhile. I had low expectations for the granite knowing what I had learned from your channel. Seeing the results for myself definitely gave me a better feel for what will work and what will not. There were a few rocks in this batch that actually turned out well that I did not expect to work out very well also. There will be a considerable amount of time spent experimenting with things to see what happens with what type of rock and maybe be able to make adjustments to my process to improve results with certain things. I was really surprised to see that the majority of the undercutting takes place in the late stages. It seemed to continue to worsen the longer they ran in the fine and polish stages too, which I didn't expect. I have been checking every source I could think of for used barrels. Ebay, CL, FB Marketplace, local classifieds, estate sales, etc. So far nothing, but I have equipment to use until I do find some. I'll definitely keep looking. I also just got a hold of a new Lot-O. I put my email on the alert list at KN and the Rock Shed. The Rock Shed notifies me of stock last Friday and it arrived Monday. Still in the process of setting it up. I have watched you review video on the Lot-O twice so far and know what to look for. I will see about getting a dedicated polish barrel for it when i am able to. It appears mine will need a bit of tuning and adjustment as well, but at least I'm aware of the issue. Thanks for that also!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 You're right about the undercutting happening late in the process. That's the way it always happens. It's like when I appear to be winning in my daily backgammon game with Nancy and she rolls double sixes at the last minute to win. Be careful that you don't over do it on the Lot-O tuning. I've heard that if you make it too aggressive, it can break springs.
@@MichiganRocks Yes, it's just like Nancy pulling out the double sixes to take the win when you think you have it in the bag. LOL. Great analogy! I won't make any adjustments to the Lot-O until I try it. I just know it was all shifted and out of sorts from shipping impacts. I got it pretty well straightened out and just bought a couple concrete blocks to mount it to. I glued two 8x12x16s together to raise it up a bit. Painting them this evening. We'll see how it goes. I just started my other RUclips channel I haven't published anything yet, but the name of the channel is Recreational Rockhound. I'll see what I come up with for content.
I know it was only a matter of minutes for us, but the entire process took you almost a full year! I know you're patient, but waiting that long isn't just patience, Rob ... it's saintly!
Personally, whether it's right, wrong, or indifferent... I'm more of an, instant gratification kind of guy... so I'm always on the lookout for ways to speed up the process.
I'm sure you've tried all of this stuff before, but if not, maybe you can cut the time down to 21 weeks for your next batch!
*Note: Everything discussed below is focused on increasing the abrasive's rate of decay. The quicker it decays, the sooner you can replenish. The more frequently you can replenish the more material it can abate. The faster it abates, the less time it takes to get smooth. The quicker it gets smooth, the less time it takes to get shiny. The faster they get shiny, the more loads you can polish. The more loads you can polish, the more videos you can release. The more videos you release, the happier your subscribers will be. The happier your subscribers are, the more batches they'll tumble. The more batches they tumble, the more grit they consume. The more grit they consume, the more grit they will buy from your affiliate link. The more sales through your affiliate link, the more money you make. The more money you make, the more grit you can buy. The more grit you can buy, the more batches you can tumble. The quicker you can tumble your batches, the more videos you can make...and on, and on, and on...
In other words...
It's a cyclical cycle of circular collisions. Constantly clashing and changing positions. Patiently pacing while polishing with precision. Reliably recording and rendering revisions. While serendipitously satisfying subscribers submissions, and amazingly making a meager commission.
1.) Do you have any larger grit abrasives that you could use, like a 35/70 SiC? Normally, the larger abrasives don't result in faster abatement, because there's not enough weight to fracture the SiC. But with a 12# barrel, and large material, you can get away with a larger particle size, because the added weight can overcome the fracture toughness of SiC.
2.) Do you have the ability to adjust the rotation rate of the barrel in your tumbling closet? The faster you can spin the barrel, the faster you can be done. I wouldn't suggest going much over 32-35 RPM though, otherwise you just beat everything up too hard. Even if your motor isn't variable speed, if you increase the circumference of the roller in contact with the barrel, it results in higher RPMs. I had a friend from work print me a pair of plastic roller sleaves on his 3D printer, that I just slide over the drive shaft when I want it to go fast, and take them off when I'm done. At one point, I read an article regarding the mathematics behind the physics involved, and please don't quote me on this, but an increased rate of revolution results in at least a 10%-15% increase in the rate of abrasive decay.
3.) I know you often grind and/or cut your rocks to remove imperfections before you tumble them... but have you ever tried taking it a step further and ground down the edges to pre-shape your rough before you put them in the tumbler? What takes 30 seconds on your cabber, takes weeks in your tumbler. And honestly, we keep running them in stage 1 mainly for shaping and blemish removal. Rocks are typically smooth enough to advance to the next stage after only a few days.
4.) I know we talked about this a bit while we were on the Keweenaw, but a good grit carrier, such as Old Miser, makes a world of difference. Traditionally, when rocks collide in the tumbler, we are banking on the hopes that there are abrasives between the two collision surfaces in order to abate. But with the particles suspended in water, when the surfaces collide, the pressure causes the water to shoot out, often taking the grit with it.
This is especially true when tumbling harder material (like crazy lace), where the slurry tends to stay watery. Sometimes people add borax, as a "slurry thickener." Which I've always thought defeats the purpose, since Borax works as a surfactant, and it takes the grit out of solution and stops it from sticking to surfaces (which is why it's effective during cleaning/"burnishing" stages... which I don't personally do). The Old Miser grit carrier is a type of clay, which sticks to the rocks, and the grit sticks to the clay.
With all of those things combined, it has cut my stage 1 grind time almost in half! I fill my 15# Model B 3/4 of the way full with rocks, add 1# of 35/70 SiC, and 4 tsp of Old Miser grit carrier (1 tsp for every 4 oz of grit). Running at around 32 RPMs, the grit is spent after ~3 days.
Let me know if you have any questions. I love talking about this stuff! If not, I hope you enjoyed the little poem I wrote for you! 😁
Wow, that's the longest comment I've seen in a long time! Here are my responses, Will:
1.) I bought some 35/70 at Kingsley North last summer, but I'm still working on the 100 lbs. of 46/70 I bought from the Rock Shed before that. So, I haven't used it but I will.
2.) I year or two ago, I changed the pulley on the motor to a smaller diameter. I did this after seeing how fast my Nat Geo tumbler ground rocks. I think the Nat Geo is way too fast, but I did speed mine up a bit.
3.) I do this sometimes but not often. This is for a couple reasons. First, it takes more time and it's sort of boring. The tumbler takes longer, but it does all the work and I only touch them once a week. Second, a tumbler wheel costs about $100. I can get about a year's worth of grit for about the same amount. I'm cheap and think it's cheaper and easier to roll them in the tumbler. I haven't actually experimented to see if it's cheaper, but I suspect it is.
4.) A few years ago on the Rock Tumbling Hobby forums there was a lot of discussion about adding clay (usually kitty litter) to the barrel to thicken the slurry. I can't remember if you are on RTH, but James P. is a big proponent of clay. I tried it but found that it made my slurry too thick and it was harder to clean out the barrel. I suppose I could have stuck with it longer and dialed in the amount better, but I didn't. I do believe that it probably makes a difference.
Speaking for myself and no one else, I'm not in that much of a hurry. I've been doing this long enough that I'm not as impatient as I was when doing my first few batches. I don't actually want to clean the barrels more than once a week. That being said, I'm teaching a lot of new tumblers who do not feel the same way, so I should probably do some experiments along these lines. I really appreciate the time you spent typing this up and I'm going to pin this to the top of the comments. I'm also going to think seriously about doing an experiment with slurry thickeners. I just have to think about how to best do the experiment. I have some ideas already.
@@MichiganRocks
If that was the longest comment, then prepare yourself for the longest reply to a reply... 🤣
I hear you about the boring part. A friend of mine from Australia (Paul Hardie) produces phenomenal results, and he spends hours pre-shaping all of his rocks. I tried it a few times, but gave up after about 2 hours, when I realized I hadn't even filled 1/4 of the barrel! However, I will fix the big blemishes that aren't likely to go away.
I can see why you would be turned off on using clay, if you tried kitty litter. Way too sticky and hard to clean up. The Old Miser I use is nothing like that. It's a fine tan/orange powder, and doesn't clump or get sticky. When I say it sticks to the rocks, I don't mean it in the way that dirt/mud sticks to rocks. It forms more of a film... It's hard to describe, and it's a little weird. It has a viscosity similar to water. If you take a clean rock and dip it in the slurry, when you pull it out, it will have a thin coating, like water. You can stick it back in the slurry and swish it around like you're trying to clean it, but when you take it out, it still has the thin coating of clay... but not solid clay, it's liquid clay (if that makes sense). Actually, it doesn't act as a slurry thickener, but as a slurry enhancer. The slurry doesn't get any thicker because if it... It's also very easy to clean off. Just dump it in a colander, and give it a couple rinses of fresh water, and it comes right off. I'll send you enough for a barrel or two and you can try it out to see if you like it.
A thought on running your experiments... The hardest part is setting your controls. Without consistent controls, you can't truly measure the effects of your variables. Therefore, given the variability of material hardness, density, and shape of natural rocks, you can't really use rocks to run tests related to tumbling rocks (oh, the irony)... The experiment I mentioned in my original comment about barrel speed, solved that problem by tumbling ceramic media, and then weighing it in order to determine the resultant change in mass, which they then compared to the baseline set by their control group. The ceramic media pellets/cylinders are fairly uniform in size and hardness. You wouldn't need to count out every piece and use the same number of ceramics per test, as long as you used the same size, you could probably get away with just using the same weight as a control... That being said, I'm sure a purist could (successfully) argue that an increased count of ceramics results in more collisionable surfaces, thus increasing the total abated mass. So if you wanted to be as precise as possible, you would want to control the weight and the count of the ceramic media used in each experiment. Sounds kinda fun, if you ask me! 😉
Let me know if you want to brainstorm about this with someone, or just to bounce around some ideas. I have plenty of thoughts I will happily share.
@@MrTurtleMontana I'm going to order some Old Miser and give it a try. I'm also going to try kitty litter since that has been discussed so much on RTH. When I have done experiments before, I did them with rocks. I just buy a lot of the same kind of rock, then put rocks of similar size in each barrel. I literally made three piles of rocks trying to get each individual rock in each barrel to be the same weight. I realize that shape matters too, but if the results are different enough, I think it's still possible to learn something. Take a look at these two videos:
Does Sand Make Good Tumbling Grit? ruclips.net/video/rk1DEqyH8Pc/видео.html
Year Long Tumble (Compares aluminum oxide to silicon carbide): ruclips.net/video/hcRttq9bSrY/видео.html
I appreciate the discourse here, I learned a lot reading through your discussion. 👍
You certainly brought out the inner beauty of that gift from Mother Nature. Gorgeous!!
Absolutely STUNNING!!! Mother Nature is the best artist!
My daughter and I are inspired by your videos ! Our tumbling is getting better because of them, thanks
That's the point of them, so I'm glad they're working out for you!
Wow!! That is beautiful!!
One of the best parts of these videos is seeing your impressive wardrobe. As a Michigan Alum and yes, season ticket holder, it warms my heart. Go Blue, Beat Ohio State!
Hail!
💎 That Work of Art looks out of this world : Origin The Moons of Jupiter !
What I learned ; Tumbling rocks takes way WAY longer than I imagined
Rock & Roll All Night & Tumble Rocks Everyday 🎉
I probably way over tumbled this one. I think I could have finished it up quicker and had a bigger rock in the end.
The way you can see down under the edges of some of the layers through the translucent bits in a big one like this is so cool
You definitely put the effort in on that crazy lace, but it was worth it. That crazy lace is polished beautifully. Well done sir. Keep the goodness coming. Be happy, safe and stay healthy.😷⚒
Thanks, Sand Maker.
WOWZA!!! What a beauty!!! You are really good at this Rob! Thank you for showing us, and for being so patient!
You're welcome, Lisa.
I have no words to tell you how beautiful that rock came up !! Thanks 🙏
Oh wow! Those are stunning! Crazy lace is one of my favorite agates! You did an awesome job polishing them! Well worth the time tumbling! 😊
You should get a big award for cleanest workshop on RUclips. Impressive organization! Nice job as always. You are an expert!
It's clean on RUclips. In real life, it's not so neat. You just can't see behind the camera. I think a messy shop is distracting in a video.
Old disabled house bound dusty rusty rockhound here: Awsome rocks. Crazy lace has been a life long favorite of mine... Thanks for the inspiration and education you provide for our new to the field rockhounds among us! 😀
It's one of my favorites too. It's just so colorful and fun.
That was so cool! To have tumbled that whole huge chunk of crazy lace, and have it come out that awesome, you know it had to be Rob! You are the only person i know who could have pulled that off and gotten that great of result! Just amazing!
I'm sure lots of people could have done the same thing. I didn't really do anything special.
@@MichiganRocks Your rocks are extraordinary. They always are!
@@MichiganRocks I just so happen to disagree with you on that one, Rob. Sure, other people may have been able to achieve a comparable polish, but the number of those people is very small, because there aren't many out there who have the patience to wait 42 weeks! That's special!
Also, nobody else cares enough about 94 thousand people (most of whom they've never met), to invest the time, effort, and expense required to record, edit, and publish a video for all to enjoy and learn from. That's special!
And finally, you're a die-hard Michigan Wolverines fan, who pronounces his support at every opportunity. That's special too!... wait... that's a different kind of special. Never mind... 😉
GO GREEN!!
@@MrTurtleMontana Ok, you have a point about the patience. It was actually only 36 weeks (although 42 is my favorite number). Otherwise, it's not that difficult.
@@MichiganRocks You're right, once you figure it out, the process isn't very difficult. Which is why I like to challenge myself with different techniques, more challenging material, etc.. Aside from that, I will airways struggle with one aspect... Delayed gratification. 🤣
42 is also my favorite number! Is it because of Deep Thought?
So many amazing designs in one rock. Beautiful!
I know, that's what so awesome about these.
So in love with agates.....
That came out really cool! I just finished my first tumble recently and they came out great. I attribute that to all the things I have learned on your channel so thank you for the excellent videos!
That's great, Gabe! I love hearing success stories.
I agree with you Gabe. Just finished my first batch too. Rob is definitely a great teacher. And I like that he answers questions. I know I wouldn't have tired tumbling without watching his videos. Blessed to have his channel on RUclips.
Your tumbling game is on another level. Awesome agate Rob!!😎
Nah, anyone could do this.
Love all of your videos. You, the tumbler, grit, water, filler, time, and years of experience combined to make an awesome polished stone. Crazy lace is one of my favorite stones. Thank You for all of your time and experience to bring us closer to nature. I believe that nature is God.
Anyone can do this, it just takes patience. I have always hoped to get people to have better results faster by watching my videos.
I don't believe that nature IS God, but that God created nature. He did an amazing job, too!
Wow! That turned out so beautiful! All those patterns in the rock were really pretty! 😍🥰😇👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Crazy lace is some incredible stuff.
My favorite one of all time. You are the rock-master! I even thought it was close to perfect at 6:40 when it was lumpy and bumpy.
I was pretty darn happy with this one too.
wow very nice work, thanks for the video!
That is absolutely amazing. The black-and-white detail on the one side is crazy looking there’s so much into it.Thanks for sharing all your videos
I know. I love the black and white side almost as much as the full color side.
Got tears in my eyes it's so unbelievably beautiful
It's more blurry with the tears though.
That’s stunning 🌈 You’re an inspiration 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
incredible. I love the transparent parts showing through to the inside. I can see why you were excited about this one. Fantastic work as ever!!
Probably the most incredible rock I've ever seen you tumble... Amazing result. Thanks for sharing.
It's right up there, isn't it? I just love crazy lace.
WOW ! It is stunning ! Love the patterns and colours they’re magnificent 😍🤩
And if the colors get to be too much for you, you can always flip it over and look at the black and white side.
@@MichiganRocks isn’t that great ! I love that side of it too 🥰👍
That is breathtaking! I can't wait to see it next time we come up to visit.
You won't have to wait too long!
That is beautiful!!!
So beautiful. Thanks for doing the work and taking us with you on the journey from beginning to pretty polished end 😁👍
You're welcome, Kimberly.
Another beautiful tumble! Crazy lace agates will never disappoint and just amaze me! I'm just one of many here, who I know are so appreciative of the incredible effort you put into the finding to finished. We get the luxury of just sitting and watching something sort of magically take place right before our eyes. Its what we do not see -- the extraordinary behind the scenes time and devotion you give to the rockhounding/lapidary process. Thanks so much, Rob!
You're welcome. What you really don't see is me moving cameras and lights around and sitting on the couch for hours editing videos. The tumbling stuff you don't see is just fun.
Rob I really loved this behind-the-scenes look at how the tumbler works. I only had a vague idea of the steps & materials before this. It’s magical that you threw in a giant chunk of stone & out came an incredibly gorgeous & shiny masterpiece! Thanks for the demo. 😊
Haven't you seen my long tumbling videos? I have several videos that show a lot more detail than this if that's something you're interested in.
@@MichiganRocks i made a mental note to go watch the playlist soon
Wow what a rock! I find rocks like this to be so much more interesting and beautiful than most gemstones.
I completely agree. Diamonds are very boring in comparison.
Crazy Lace is one of my favourites, what a beautiful specimen, such a shame about the cracks 👍 💕 💕 💕
Awesome. I lived over 60 years in the E.U.P. but I have moved to the coastal bend of TX where I discovered crazy lace agate it is amazing stuff.
Do you mean that you find it there, or are you importing it from Mexico?
That crazy lace is amazing!!!!
That is one of the prettiest rocks I ever have seen. Amazing
I ordered my rocks from the rock shed because of you. Absolutely agree they have been great! Thanks for the recommendation.
I've been a happy customer for years.
That was really nice of Shawn to give that yo you. Crazy Lace is one of the most unique rocks ever !
I think Shawn and I appreciate each other.
@@MichiganRocks I have always been pleased with the Rock Shed.
That's the craziest rock I've ever seen. So beautiful!
Must be where it gets its name.
WOW! That rock is gorgeous. I’m impressed 😮
That's incredible!! You did right by that lovely gift!
I love crazy lace agates. I have a couple small ones that were given to me to polish. Turned out so beautiful. Yours is so amazing. Just so much going on with it. I could spend the whole day looking it over.
I love them too. Crazy lace is one of my favorites for sure.
Wow that turned out amazing! I agree I like the same side you do. The Rock Shed and Kingsley North are both great places to buy from. Thanks Rob for sharing your videos and information with us. Much appreciated!
You're welcome!
Stunning piece of work!
Holy smokes, that's a nice show piece!
I like how it's black and white on one side then turns into full color. It's like the Wizard of Oz. Nice rock.
I was thinking of a coloring book with one page done and the other page untouched. I like your Wizard of Oz comparison.
I find it amazing that a rock can look like that !
It doesn't seem natural, does it? God does some pretty amazing work.
I love crazy lace. That came out spectacularly
I love crazy lace too.
Love that crazy lace I am sure it will be beautiful.
That Lacey agate is beautiful. Your workshop is so clean and organized too. Very nice.
It's an illusion. You can only see one side of the camera.
@@MichiganRocks 😃
WOW! Just wow! Great rock with great results. Appreciate that you shared the before and after and some of the in-between, Rob.
I'm glad you liked it!
@@MichiganRocks I'll admit I was scratching my head when you cut off the ends, but then, I saw the finished stone -- Good Work!
I just finished my first batch of rocks today. With your help I've gotten great results. Thanks.
That's awesome, Robert!
Wow! Beautiful agate!
Looks unearthly, amazing, so beautiful
A really super cool rock and tumbling!
Absolutely beautiful! I love when agates are polished so you can really appreciate their beauty, when they’re cut and polished or just polished whole. I know a lot of people like them natural, but not me!
I like Lake Superior agates natural, but I think I like the rest polished.
Always learn something new with your videos. You are a mentor for the tumbling community. Thank you for all the great content.
I'm glad I could teach you something. I just watched one of your videos and it looks like you know a thing or two already. I love your idea of leaving rocks around for other people to find.
YaY another tumbling video from the best! Absolutely awsome Crazy Lace! Excellent work and patience Rob!!!
Isn't crazy lace fun?
That was a gorgeous rock! You are the tumble King 👑💯
Wow. Beautiful. I love crazy lace agate. It was worth the 36 weeks. The red side is my favorite. You have to make that a coffee table rock. It’s a treasure.
The 36 weeks was probably easier for you than for me. I didn't really mind, but shortening the wait to 12 minutes would have been nice!
Gorgeous! Your tumbling videos are my favorites.
It's getting to be that season.
I used a 3" tire patch to repair the lid rubber hole and added the 3" tire patch to new lid rubber to extend the life.
That's a great idea. The only problem I see with it is that you'd have to be careful to not leave any areas where grit could get trapped. I mostly only use my barrels for the first stage of tumbling (I finish most rocks in my Lot-O) so that wouldn't really be a problem for me. I'm seriously considering doing that.
That turned out absolutely gorgeous so many different patterns so many different colors.
Colors, but also a black and white coloring book on the other side.
🤩🤩🤩🤩WOW WOW WOW!!! I love crazy lace agate
Crazy lace is just such a unique rock, and tumbling really brings out the features and coloration. I wouldn't worry about the fractures; it's hard to find a large piece that doesn't have them....
I think they're probably treated pretty badly as they're extracted from the ground.
@@MichiganRocks Very!
Crazy lace is one of my favorites!
Mine too!
Very nice!! You always do such a good job on your rocks.
Thanks!
It is beautiful at all angles! Good job!! Wow!
That’s the most beautiful rock I’ve ever seen!!
It's right up there for me too.
Oh man that is SO INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL! Thanks for the video!
You're welcome!
That was cool! The rock has so much pattern, one can make pictures out of it. I saw a dog and a buffalo.
Were they fighting?
@@MichiganRocks they were on opposite sides of the rock so I think it'll be ok.
This video and that rock are just some crazy goodness. Excellent job!
Thanks!
After the first tumble I thought it kinda looked how imagine a chunk of a giant octopus tentacle would look. Amazing final result. I know you’ve heard it before but I like the cracks. Keeps it looking organic.
You'd love this one then with all its imperfections. I like it too, cracks and all.
Hi! Wowza! It is like you are holding a beautiful weather and event map of the earth.
👍Awesome rock to stare at for hours post polish. 👍It's amazing how varied the appearance is as you rotate it.
I have a smaller piece of crazy lace that's all eyes on one side and black and white on the other. I've shown it here a couple times, so you've probably seen it. It is crazy how it can change so much in such a short distance.
Beautiful beautiful beautiful!!!
Omg.absoltely grazy beautiful ones.its amazing how nature can produce something so beautiful❤
Yep, God does some good work!
Mother nature brings us so much beauty. And this one was definitely,beautiful. Wished you would have shown us how the little ones turned out.
Thank you for sharing.
Most of the small crazy lace was done before the big one and was moved on to the Lot-O tumbler. I used some other rocks, mostly desert jasper and also some smaller saw scraps to fill the barrel for the final three stages. I thought it would be confusing to include all of those and would make the video longer, so instead, I'll do some "Rocks in a Box" episodes later to show those.
Waiting to see how they all turned out😉.
What a beauty Rob. I kept thinking at the end that it was like some kinda crazy lace Dino bone. Superb work. Thank you.
Dino bone is pretty too, but not quite this interesting.
That is one of the biggest tumbled rock I’ve ever seen. Nice material. I know you love the Agates. It came out good even with the cracks.
Watch this: ruclips.net/video/yLtHsmDaw9I/видео.html
@@MichiganRocks I knew they make big tumblers. That agate is big. I wish he showed the tumbler and it tumbling. Thanks for the link.
Wow that is so beautiful! Thanks for sharing 👍
This is really pretty! Your tumbling information was soooo much better than the instructions that came with the tumbler!
This wasn't really supposed to be an instructional video. I have several of those though, if you're interested in hearing more details about what I do.
@@MichiganRocks It would be cool to see a 12lb rotary tumble tutorial video with various rock sizes, specifically, when to put ceramics in, how much, if you use plastic pellets, how much, etc. Also maybe for the Lotto?
@@edwardrick7388 I have videos like that. They're not with a 12 lb barrel, but the techniques are the same:
Rotary tumbler followed by vibratory tumbler: ruclips.net/video/ksrmpPZrAuU/видео.html
Rotary tumbler with ceramics: ruclips.net/video/dYGFal0e1WY/видео.html
Rotary tumbler with plastic pellets: ruclips.net/video/EnNvywwztr8/видео.html
I like how it came out of the first stage
It's really nice looking. Keep up the great work 👍
Thanks!
Thank you for sharing, indeed beautiful.
Very cool, the guys at the Rock Shed were all hyped when I mentioned Michigan Rocks the last big order I gave them. The project went incredibly well, now I’m going to have to shop some chunks of that Crazy Lace! That stuff is just so beautiful. It’s up there with the Ohio flint, in my opinion.
I like crazy lace a lot more than Ohio flint, and I like Ohio flint quite a bit.
I also ended up ordering my last batch of grit from the Rock Shed because of Michigan Rocks. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but if Michigan Rocks is recommending it, then you know it has to be good.
Jeez, now I sound like a shill for the Rock Shed! I swear, I'm not! LOL.
@@Dr.ChrisThompson Gosh, that really puts the pressure on me to make sure I make good recommendations!
@@MichiganRocks No pressure intended! It's just that it's obvious to all of us that you have high standards, and so we know we can trust your recommendations based on that alone! Keep up the good work!
@@Dr.ChrisThompson I ordered 3 packages from Rock Shed. Over 1000$ in two weeks. 2 of the 3 orders were missing items, including one package missing a $300 tumbler. How do you miss that? Not even an offer of a small discount for future order or any offer. Very disappointed. Spending that kind of money to have hundreds of dollars not shipped was not a great experience. I know it's only one experience, but to this customer, they didn't really show they cared about me after getting my money. If it isn't common, I must be very unlucky to have it happen twice in such a short time. I wish I hadn't heard of them being recommended so highly. I had the opposite experience.
That is one of the coolest rocks I've seen, so much going on there, great work.
Yeah, I love crazy lace agate.
That is so cool. Can't wait to see more
Hi Rob, WOW!!! That came out fantastic!!! It's gorgeous!!! Lucky you!!! I have a 15 pound tumbler I've done some larger rocks in and they've come out great too. But not as good as yours because I don't have the patience to wait as long as you do, lol. Once I see their beauty, I need to hold them, look at them tirelessly and find their special place to shine. Thank you for having the 'intestinal fortitude' to wait so long!!! LOL!!! Hi Nancy!!! Take care. Hugs!!! 😊
I've been doing this for a long time, and I have a lot of other barrels to play with so I'm pretty patient. Waiting a long time doesn't really bother me at all.
I love the UoM representation! Go Blue!!
Hail!
These are my favorite rocks
They're right up there on my list too.
Love it Rob!
What a beautiful rock. I get why you hate the cracks, but like people, sometimes we need to accept them for what they are, cracks and all!
Yep, that's true!
How the heck had this only got 25k views?!? Absolutely stunning
That's more than many of my videos get, so no complaints here. Of course if you want to tell all of your friends, that's ok too!
That turned out so very nicely!! That was awesome!
I got my first batch of rocks out of final polish last weekend. For my first try since my only other real attempt failed when I was a young kid, I'm quite pleased with the results. I have my dedicated rock tumbler base built and running now. I used my home made PVC pipe barrels for the first batch. My second batch is started now on the new base using the barrels from the old Beacon Star tumbler I bought at an estate sale. Those barrels are about 12-15 pound capacity also. They appear to be very similar in size and design to a Thumler's Model B barrel. I'm trying to get a couple of 12lb and a 6lb Lortone barrel to run on this tumbler, but these Beacon Star barrels will work fine until then. The Lortone ones are sold out everywhere.
Thank you again for all your great videos. Thanks to your help, I managed what I considered a. Very successful first batch. I also got a full appreciation for why you don't mess with tumbling granite very much. I will keep learning but some of my rocks turned out really great. I'm still considering starting a second channel for this.
I'm glad you're having success. That first batch is hard to wait for. Most people don't have the patience to wait long enough to get really awesome results.
I think granite is something you need to experience for yourself to really appreciate why I don't appreciate it. It took me several batches of it to learn.
Keep an eye on Craig's list or eBay for used barrels. I found some that way and they were like new.
@@MichiganRocks It is a bit of a test of patience waiting for the first batch to finish up. I was happy enough with the ones that did really well that it made the batch feel worthwhile.
I had low expectations for the granite knowing what I had learned from your channel. Seeing the results for myself definitely gave me a better feel for what will work and what will not. There were a few rocks in this batch that actually turned out well that I did not expect to work out very well also. There will be a considerable amount of time spent experimenting with things to see what happens with what type of rock and maybe be able to make adjustments to my process to improve results with certain things. I was really surprised to see that the majority of the undercutting takes place in the late stages. It seemed to continue to worsen the longer they ran in the fine and polish stages too, which I didn't expect.
I have been checking every source I could think of for used barrels. Ebay, CL, FB Marketplace, local classifieds, estate sales, etc. So far nothing, but I have equipment to use until I do find some. I'll definitely keep looking.
I also just got a hold of a new Lot-O. I put my email on the alert list at KN and the Rock Shed. The Rock Shed notifies me of stock last Friday and it arrived Monday. Still in the process of setting it up. I have watched you review video on the Lot-O twice so far and know what to look for. I will see about getting a dedicated polish barrel for it when i am able to. It appears mine will need a bit of tuning and adjustment as well, but at least I'm aware of the issue. Thanks for that also!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 You're right about the undercutting happening late in the process. That's the way it always happens. It's like when I appear to be winning in my daily backgammon game with Nancy and she rolls double sixes at the last minute to win.
Be careful that you don't over do it on the Lot-O tuning. I've heard that if you make it too aggressive, it can break springs.
@@MichiganRocks Yes, it's just like Nancy pulling out the double sixes to take the win when you think you have it in the bag. LOL. Great analogy!
I won't make any adjustments to the Lot-O until I try it. I just know it was all shifted and out of sorts from shipping impacts. I got it pretty well straightened out and just bought a couple concrete blocks to mount it to. I glued two 8x12x16s together to raise it up a bit. Painting them this evening. We'll see how it goes. I just started my other RUclips channel I haven't published anything yet, but the name of the channel is Recreational Rockhound. I'll see what I come up with for content.
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 Good luck!
Am jealous of that rock, you did a great job with it ❤️❤️
Thanks!
Oh nice tumbler set up.