You have always been anti pvp, even as a concept, you even hate it in Dark Souls. Many of us would play pvp if it is actually fun, there are plenty of pvp examples to borrow from to make it good but they keep listening to people like you who hate competetive play if it does not involve cards, and the weird people on the forums who hate getting killed in a game by another player and take it as a personal attack.
@@SteelWolf5280 This perspective just undermines people's perceptive and adaptive abilities actually, even the Stalker hunt trials didn't display this fictional issue. The "movement" isn't the problem, the conclave PVP does not even function like the main game already and has shit ass arenas. Also, Warframe was not designed for a lot of things until it was put in. The movement in Warframe in needs an upgrade in general honestly, not merely for PVP. They been talking about parkour tweaks for 5 years now, they need to actually do things like that. But getting back to PVP, Brozime just doesn't like PVP period, which is why he wants Dark Souls to not have any either despite the slower pace and very distinct controls between the two games.
39:00 rant about "New player queue": MRs were 0, 1, 2 and him in that mission where he said "You can't kill things". Though he might have been thinking of another mission. It's not even about MRForma at that point.
@@NobleNomadI used to play conclave but I had to stop because I got tired of trying to shoot people when they are flying across the map constantly. There's even a mod that increases movement speed when low on health to encourage running away Instead of engaging in combat
Thanks for the reaction :) Since my video I've been contacted by several warframe players offering to help show me around and support the journey, the community has been extremely positive and genuinely lovely to interact with.
Thank you for the video! The offer absolutely is extended from me as well if you'd ever like to stream together, have questions, or get further into Warframe!
It's unfortunately part of the Warframe experience. Fun content gated behind zero explanation. My partner and I have been getting into Railjack this past week, and boy that introduction is unhelpful. Luckily I enjoy poking around in menus so actually learned how to play.
Stopped playing when plains of eidolon came out, back for 3 days been playing for about 13 hours a day farmed plat for volt prime, farmed wisp and finished like 4 quests. Fucking love this game
@@Phoenix-td9mj realizes it just forces you to grind a shitload of tedious objectives that force you to play excessive amounts of the tedious core "gameplay loop" to even get to play any of the cool content. Also not even mentioning your choices for those grinds are either doing the same boring strikes or getting crapped on by the current crucible meme meta.
I miss back when we knew actually nothing, and there was nothing. When our place in the setting was as nebulous as our grasp of the games deeper mechanics. Good times.
What's even worse is that the experience of "I'm in my ship and I don't know what to do" exists for people returning to the game after any amount of time. I have 1.4k hours into the game on Steam, probably way way more since I had an MR 14 account on PS4, and hours on the individual client. I was gone for 2 updates and "I'm in my ship and I don't know what to do." Over and over and over again and I actually have played the game.
@@monikadp1740 Currently going through this. Returned couple days ago after a year break, there's a gajillion new systems and mods it's genuinely overwhelming. Just yesterday I told my friend "Warframe feels like a game that's designed for those that never stopped playuing".
Same, its taken me 2 years to start playing again having dropped it because I've never had the time and willpower to figure wtf is going on AGAIN. I'm semi competent again now but only after spending 2 weeks on the wiki and watching many hours of yotube content even though I'm a returning player
My only complaint of Warframe's physical gameplay mainly comes from what a mess it becomes in late game, due to the obscene increase in number values. The failures of its backend systems are VAST. Warframe is a video game that needed two sequels to rewrite the rules with fresh eyes, got those sequels, but installed them all into a game called Warframe.
This reminds me of a thought that randomly occured to me recently while playing with Tenet Cycron: DE in 2014-15: we nerfed Synoid Gammacor because it made every other weapon obsolete. DE in 2021: Here's Tenet Cycron. It has unlimited ammo, stupid amount of damage, chains to multiple enemies and has both high status and crit chances. Balance? Fuck it, don't care anymore. They completely lost track of numbers and gave up.
Yeah and the sad part is that the game can be amazing when its slowed down. Some of the best experiences with Warframe for me were when i was new and doing void cache runs (because the wiki told me there were mods in them or something) or doing spy missions for something. (until i had to spam them to get ivara...ugh)
So I’ve been thinking about this over the last few days: What if after you kill Captain Vor, a “generous patron” called Alad V shows up, starts giving you endo and credits and stuff and shows you how how to mod your frame. All the while Darvo is like “ehh i know you rescued me from prison but like, I wouldn’t trust him if I were you”. But he’s giving you all this good stuff that you kinda ignore the advice, and then it turns out Alad V is basically fattening you up for his Zanuka Project. (Could even force that mission in where you get captured) Would be both a good way to explain the mechanics and providing a useful insight into the greed of the corpus…
@@ydziros Really, the main "Damage +" and secondary "Elemental +" should be explained thoroughly. The amount of times I have had to tell new players that "Damage +" has diminishing returns and that they need to diversify their stat boosts is every time.
It would be cool if you had this right before venus, so you had a mission were he invited you to his office or something and you could just walk into a level without enemies attacking, but by the end were he tries to kill you the facade reveals and you have to shoot your way out The grinier is clear, but we never get an explanation why the corpus hates us (as a character, not the tenno in general) aside from the fortuna quest
"what an incredible game to play, but why" I've been playing for a year, hit MR 25 recently and I still don't know why, all I know is that I must level
man to be able to do that in a year you are a mad man been playing since 2015 i play nearly every day (took 2 years off during 2016-2018 because i got way to into paladins) but like im at 3000+ hours and just hit mastery rank 20 this month lol i realyl need to start farming up more weapons (i do have like 26 in my foundary built so i guess ill start with those)
@@DeputyFish To be fair I've almost always had an affinity booster running, and have purchased all of the accessory packs with 90 day resource boosters My general strategy has been to build as many weapons and frames as possible, leave them in the foundry, and then grind them all out during a x2 affinity weekend
I think the easiest way to sum up warframe's new player issue is that the tutorial only teaches you how to complete a mission and not how to play the game.
It's very sad if Digital Extreme really said: "making the new player experience better didn't keep more players playing". It makes it seem like their expectations for the average gamer is way too high. Like they haven't truly seen a pov of a new player like this.
Oh yes we need another game that holds your hand like youre mentally disabled. Yep thats what everyone wants. Not all games need to be for everyone. In warframe the whole journey is starting to understand how "OP" you can become and enjoying the fruits of your labour when you do.
@thefunny4706 they already explain most mechanics. Thats why they made quests. Introduce new mechanics or warframes. The second dream was a tutorial but their attempt to add story as well. The new war was mostly story but also introduced the whole "unveiling" mechanic for the specific game mode and its playstyle when u play the grineer dude for the weekly missions.
@thefunny4706 the game is fine as is and you dont need a checklist every step of the way at the top of your screen "oh go kill 10 grinner. Oh go collect 5 tellurium. Great now go to foundry and craft kohm". There is a million and one mmo's like that and the one thing they have in common is they are all dead and forgotten. From lineage to adventure quest. Same formula, same hand holding and everyone using the same gear, only varying by level. Also RS is also a good example, since it uses the same formula but doesnt hold your hand. The quests need videos or wikis to complete. Money makers as well. It has challenging content like jad or inferno. Guess what, surprisingly RS isn't dead. Hmmm I wonder why. And if he tried to play any of the RS's without using that info as a new player he would also cry about not being "autopiloted" through all the content. The only reason he doesnt is nostalgia+years of experience (so a bias, which to any "reviewer" should be a sin and leave them jobless).
@@zDemoGODz Yes, newplayers need to have handholding to a certain extend, idk whats so hard to understand abt that. You might not need it, but that doesnt apply to everyone, and if u want to go with the notion that wf isnt a game for everyone, then sure, that nullify the argument of new players staying in the first place. Guess DE shares the same mentality too, with all the gatekeeping. And also, whats wrong w using the same gear? You need to walk before u can run, newplayers need to use the same gear first before they can learn how to mod, it s like if school gives out a test before they teach students anything. They need to know the limit of what they can do before they go beyond that, thats what new player quests r abt. And I think u r misunderstanding the notion here, no one is telling DE to make WF a quest simulator, Broz here said the same thing, hold their hands until 2nd dream, or at the very least, until the first planet/junction, so they know what they can do. They already explained the mechanic? Didnt they also said this in the video? DE literally went, heres a thingamajig, heres a blobunator, they "explained" it, and expect the players to fill out the gap in details themselves, I dont consider that explaining. The 2nd dream was a tutorial? Great, then why did they leave the new players lost n confused before the tutorial even started? This has always been the case for the game anyway, the gameplay is fun, the design is shit, especially the UX design. I thought they would learn over time, ever since the god forsaken thing called raids, but alas, still shit.
This made me realize that WF has a lot in common with EvE in terms of how it presents itself to new players. That is, best foot forward... straight off a cliff, while expecting players to learn how to fly real fast (much like many bird parents). It's not ideal, but perchance the strategy will eventually evolve.
I feel like the Junction requirements could be remade into light questlines. Establish the boss of the sector, have some gameplay goals tied to light plot. Just another missed opportunity
@@Kayaba01 Right? There's always something about how XYZ system boss runs the factories or the mines or is harming the colonies or building something that shouldn't be a thing. If Lotus can pop up and drop some seemingly random lore when you show up to kick this stranger's ass, then they for sure have a place to start.
@@Kayaba01 I mean half the bosses in the game actually had relevant plot that DE never bothered to keep in the game. Ambulas boss fight, Tyl Regor, Kela, Alad(most of his questline is out of order and completely missing). All those old operations could've been turned into mini quests to help expand to world
@@glazeuniversagladis2499 I think he is referring to a linear series of quests between the tutorial and Second Dream to start off the world-building. Some of the quests (eg waverider, open world intro quests etc) could do that, but it doesn't seem as centrally important as the Operator Trilogy and the lead-in to New War
@@glazeuniversagladis2499 The story in Warframe is severely disjointed. You have very important events completely missing. Stuff that takes place before certain other events being later in the star chart. And side quests featuring one of the the main antagonists that you can completely miss/skip.
I quit at every turn. Every kill screen mentioned made me delete the game. But then i came back and went further, until the next time i got stuck. The last time i quit was because i was so burnt out from playing so much for so long and i just couldnt do it any more.
tbh the community and etc is really nice as well as those ingame that help new players. My guildmates actually gave me my first prime and I was shocked well they knew I was farming to all hell and back to earn my first. lol
Watching the original vid, really made me crave those junction bosses again. I loved beating a frame and having a big laser shoot out into space to create a bridge to the next planet. Felt really epic.
@@Joel-kc5jk But there's no point in repeating them. It was a sense of real progression because they were a content gate that you had to beat to get access to the next planet.
He makes a really good point at 37:50 I can see how new players would be turned off by watching their teammates obliterate everything. But the experience Brozime just used, having a maxed out Ember come in and absolutely melt everything in existence, that literally happened to me. I was in awe at the amount of power you could have and immediately wanted to main Ember, which I did until her rework. She was also my first Prime. Damn those were good times
I had the same experience playing Mag. Here I am, out of energy, low on ammo, just doing my best, and then the next mission is Saturn Defense and another Mag is just standing on the cryopod pushing 3 once and then pulling in all the loot. I definitely asked them how I could make mine do that.
ive had beef in the past with saryn players because my gameplay was reduced to standing still on the objective and watching the affinity numbers popping up on my screen but now i became the thing i hated most lmao
I was at awe when it happened back when I was new, that quickly fades away after it happen several times. I remember thinking "I have to play solo if I actually want to play this". Also finding another newbie(s) is like a Big Foot sighting. Now that I'm the vet, I usually try to be mindful about them; only using secondary weapon and marking cache, Silver grooves, or Corrupted vaults. (all restraints are off during relic run however)
@@Gigawood indeed but will de do it. maybe but would maybe take 1 to 4 years. i notice de some time listen to only new player more then vet players or when to say no to fan and when to say yes to fans.
The saddest part of it all is that DE is well aware about the mess of system flaws and archaic knowledge crammed into the head of the game but have assigned it a lower priority if you paid attention to what Pablo said during the Tennocon stream. He claimed DE would rather make new, exciting content instead of fixing older, broken systems because the former is what draws newer players in and gives older players reasons to come back - consistent with DE’s design mentality for the past almost decade or so but also showing the glaringly obvious forgotten section of Warframe players, those in between. New players get thrown into information overload central and Warframe retains but a small fraction of the new players that got hooked in by the space ninja theme mostly because nobody knows what the fuck modding the warframe for the specific mission type or the levelling and allocation of said mods or enemy damage types or status v crit builds or energy efficiency and a billion other mechanics are. Warframe needs a completely redesigned mid-game section - my vision would be to use different bosses to gatekeep different mechanics. Maybe after defeating Vay Hek you learn about mod capacities and levelling mods. Maybe Jackal teaches mission types and how to mod and suggest better frames for them. Maybe Lech Kril teaches elemental resistances, status types and enemy classes. Someone else teaches void relics, someone else teaches resources and optimised farming. I’m a veteran yet when I jumped back in it took me a solid 2 weeks to understand the lich system, let alone the mid game players who neither have the ability, the understanding or even the WANT to get rid of them. I really hope that enough people pester DE enough to warrant them going, ok New War is cool and important but we should REALLY improve the player retention after the first tutorial so players like me don’t watch half of all their friends who tried the game drop it after Venus.
@@analogicparadox If anything it put to light even more how bad the new player experience it is, since now we can compare with the new tutorial and dream how good it could have been, brozime ideas looked realy cool. We can always dream.
5 years ago was when Warframe was at its peak. You should be glad that you got to play it back then. It wasn't as broken as it was back at launch, but you also didn't have that many burnt out veterans and people were still in love with Second Dream. The new tutorial is gorgeous though...
It's funny, Steve said that revamping new player experience didnt help much with retention - yeah no shit. When after the intro quest you are still dumped into starchart with no direction and its still unplayable without wiki, 32:35 is all spot on, even I felt the same when replaying it from a new account. The questline should also teach you the basics step by step - thats how you design games.
I've been playing since 2013 and i STILL wiki everything. I came back after a 2 year break because i heard about all the new updates. I had no clue what sisters of parvos was or how to start it. I was still trying to build a railjack in my dojo. I still had not killed my first lich because i never learned before stopping last time. You literally have to watch DE's streams and announcements to know how to play the new updates. It's NOT how you retain players. new or experienced. with that said i'm having more fun now than i've ever had. the game is coming togther piece by piece. almost a decade later xD
Honestly, I've only recently started using the wiki and I've only used it twice. Other than that, I've just been figuring everything out on my own...somehow
@@artemis5265 With a game like this, new players should have the option to have their hand held to a certain point. There's a reason why most games like these have an optional tutorial/text guide as they play. There's no wonder why new players stop playing after no more than a week.... Not everybody is gargantuan brain, sorry to break it to you.
@@artemis5265 no shit everyone can get that but warframe is actually bad in terms of tutorials, wanna know why the community is so helpful? BECAUSE THE GAME AINT GONNA BE THE ONE TO HELP YOU THATS WHY. We veterans help new players because we know theyre not gonna learn anything from the vague "tutorials" DE put in place like how are you supposed to get into edio hunts without natural progression? Warframe is a bunch of content islands and fact is youre not gonna know a lot of the things to do without asking or googling
I pray DE looks at this video and implements the suggestions. It solves all the issues with bringing in and retaining newer players. The game would be thriving. Ordis would be a cool way to direct players through early missions/mechanics
DE regularly watch Brozime's videos and streams, but they don't usually address the issues he brings up. At least not in the right way. Usually DE, thinking things will just sort themselves out, wait for a problem to get really bad. Then they panic and implement a fix that only puts a band-aid on the issue, or even makes the problem worse.
The trouble is as well, that when the community says that things need explaining better... DE takes that to mean, "We want a massive cinematic quest with lots of cutscenes!!!" When all the players really mean to say, is put in some basic but well structured and easy to understand instructions of how to do things. Take the mods for example, I do not think anyone thinks that lots of time and effort needs to go into making a quest about it. Merely a basic mission where you have Lotus or Ordis (or even just some text on screen ffs) tell you to kill a dude, pick up the mod that dropped, and when you get back on the ship it leads you to the mod console and gives a concise explanation of where to put it and how to level it. I honestly believe that if Warframe's systems were structured a bit better, that their player base would easily be double or triple what it is now. I have recommended the game to quite a few people, and of them, they ALL immediately liked the game, followed by getting exasperated with it and giving up. And of them, I only got one of them to come back and play and I played through the Starchart with him explaining it as we went and he now plays the game all the time. JUST IMPLEMENT SIMPLE, CHEAP, EASY EXPLANATIONS FOR NEWER PLAYERS, AND BETTER EXPLAIN THE NEW ADDITIONS TO EXISTING PLAYERS!
As a thought for the "never uses a stance" idea, something I've noticed when helping new players or introducing ppl to WF is that everyone assumes that it drains capacity instead of adding to it. Same with Auras to lesser extent.
these are the reason why A lot of experienced players just gives mods that are necessary for the start like some stances, auras etc...and they will actually try to teach the 101 because the game just kind of teaches something like a parent then throws you in the middle of a City then leaves you there.
They never explained about stances and mods. I never even thought I could equip a wrong polarity stance and still get bonuses. It's +4 capacity instead of +10, but still.
@@raymondgreen9379 The game has a ton of examples for bad UX. While we're on the topic of stance mods, there used to be a clear big arrow next to the capacity number to denote an increase. Now it's been changed to a tiny hat that no one can see. I can't fathom why they just don't put an obvious plus sign over there instead. A plus sign!
the worst thing about starting out in warframe is the energy economy .. it isn't until hundreds of hours into the game that you realize arcane energize is a thing and that warframes have abilities that you can cast like ALLL the time !!
Oh yeah, that was one thing i didnt enjoy when i was a new player. The slower gameplay was nice and cool, but my energy staying at 0 for the rest of the mission cause I was unlucky felt kinda bad. Once i got zenurik and warframes that could refresh their energy, like protea and nidus, it felt a lot better.
Yeah, starting out wasn't easy. But I remember the excitement when I learned something new. Going solo was fun building my dojo. Now I have a few clan members. I got my daughter, her old man and my grandson started. I taxied them to the Jackal early. That gave them a frame to rank up and gave them mastery rank. Learning the game was easier for them than it was for me. All I had was the Wiki. They had me and a dojo. I don't think they would have continued playing without the original help. Now my daughter is showing me things. Mostly on Deimos and in the Railjack. She wants to rank up to be able to give blessings. I never really cared about MR but I'm struggling to stay ahead of her. After all I'm the Founding Warlord of our clan .
It's really weird to consider how two of the most recent tileset reworks impact the perception & progression of the story in the early game. Prior to the Jovian Concord & the Deadlock Protocol, the Amalgams, Sentients & Parvos Granum don't really come to mind as anything significant. I wish DE would've kept some of the more spoilery elements on hold until after their respective quests/boss/events. The story of Alad V is the most janky experience to cobble together.
Yeah, more early game narrative missions connecting you to things and directing you towards the plot are absolutely needed. Hitting that wall of "What do I do now?" Is deadly to new players, as I can attest from when it nearly killed my interest when I first started.
@@notsae66 Agreed, I will give it one thing tho. When I first started the lack of direction lead me to asking for help. I got into a good but small clan, who gave me all of the essential mods, guided me through the game and offered me a small group to enjoy this game with. I've since left that clan, but I still try to do the same. There is a benefit to making you rely on others. I won't however pretend that my experience is the normal experience.
The opening to warframe is so awful that as an xbox beginner I haven't played warframe since they added the open world section to the game, spamming Hydron every single day burned me out and I couldn't take it anymore and when they added massive amounts of quality content I refused to regrind it all on PC, the new player experience is the worst in any genre and if they refined it, warframe could reach SOOOO many more players and breathe new life into the game....Second Dream should still absolutely take a long time to reach...that climb to reach the experience you're given after like 100 hrs is unlike anything else in gaming.
For what it's worth, I too am thousands of hours in, and - having heard all of Ordis' hidden logs and knowing his full story - I have proclaimed Ordis to, in fact, be the goodest boi and I refuse to mute him for any reason whatsoever. With all he does, and all he's put up with, all for my sake... I can tolerate his shitty pun for the thirty-four-hundredth time. I can do that for him.
I had Ordis muted for a long time, but when he started becoming more plot relevant around late 2016/early 2017 I unmuted him. I just want him to call me star child again :(
ordis very lost opportunity. they just keep making more and more new shitty characters. we didnt need nora who speaks in an accent that makes you think united states exists in this universe (it does not and never did). and then creation of 10 more bland characters when we had ordis and they could have added more and more variety to him over the years. once the variety runs out - people mute him.
I think JSH’s whole video highlights how Warframe is a game split in two, and how we as veterans tend to forget that the first half is so different. For the first half, energy is a rare commodity, abilities have to be considered and used carefully, enemies come in small waves, there’s no real reason to play missions as quickly as possible, you are a space NINJA. Just look at how JSH is playing the game. That’s the game DE expects you to play out of the gate. The other half of warframe, which you transition into toward the end of the starchart, is a game where energy is a common resource, abilities are used almost constantly and enemies come in massive waves that have to be killed as quickly as possible in order to get the same sense of rewards, you are NOT a space ninja, but a space WARRIOR. This is the warframe that you and I play, and it is NOT the same game. I personally preferred the first half, I feel like the combat feeling that JSH praises all over this video is thrown away by the second half’s design of ‘kill millions of dudes as fast as you can”, however, I won’t make any argument that one ‘side’ of warframe is superior, the second half is the more popular side for those who stick around and I still play warframe 6 years later. Clearly I enjoy the game to some extent still, but the fact that the game has these two sides gives warframe a serious identity problem, which has really lessened my enjoyment of the game over time.
Very accurate depiction. Funny thing is, the other huge indie f2p darling Path of Exile runs into the same exact situation. When you're starting off you play so meticulously. By the end you're blasting through maps at the speed of sound.
I replayed Warframe from the start recently and this is very true. I honestly think the first half was more interesting and involved, but I do wish energy problems were better handled for earlier missions
Thx for sparing me time to write xP I sign under every word. De does think we are playing that firs part game, thats why the do things that to us, actal players, seem totaly delusional.
Sometimes I feel warframe combat would have been more engaging if it took more of a Mass Effect approach to combat. But its too late for that. Warframe is already in so deep.
As an old school veteran who was around during the days of Boltor Prime dominance and Raids, after I took an extended break around the release of PoE I was so lost when I came back a few months ago. I had a pretty good understanding of things, I’d been playing for several hundred hours with a bunch of other players who all knew what we were doing. When I came back I felt like a total newbie again. I had no idea what I was doing with the new high level content, a lot of frames and weapons I used to main had been reworked or made irrelevant, the general build strategies had changed and I had no one experienced who I was still in contact with. It took me weeks to get back to a point where I felt like I could be confident in my knowledge and there are still some things where I’m a bit shaky. I very nearly gave up but I powered through and I can confidently say I’m back to being addicted
Actually, I think that Nora and an introduction to the nightwave system might be a really good way to DO an early planetary story structure without needing to make too much new shit. Making whole new cinematic quests for only early players to interact with is going to be a hard sell, I think, but having a proper introduction to Nora as a character as her show kind of guides you through early planets might be a really nice way to make both that situation easier and make her feel a bit more grounded in the world. She's always bothered me a little bit for not really feeling like she fits into anything else, despite how prominent she is as a gameplay fixture.
I really wish DE would add early game campaigns, adding back in the narratives of past events fleshing out the grinner and corpus bosses as antagonists.
Oh yes this definitely this. I still barely know anything about most of the bosses in the game and I’ve been playing for 5 years, but I know that they all have a story to them because of all of the events that I missed.
I legit fought the ropopopulyst, or whatever his name is, just to unlock nodes. and natah just came out of nowhere to talk to me. Legit feel so disconnected about the lore lmao
The ideal would be tailor-made mission nodes for every planet. Instead of copy-paste extermination or spy, imagine having a story context to each one that’s relevant to the boss of the planet. Each one essentially becomes a mini-campaign
@@toagradius8856 if i remember right there used to be transmissions about the boss of a particular planet not just in the assassination mission but also the regular missions that lead up to that misson
There desperately needs to be a rotating cycle of old events being run back through. My lil bro has no fucking clue what I'm talking about when I tell him we are the absolute worst for fucking over Tyl Regor, or that Salad 5 deserves to be killed a thousand times because he's been playing for a year, and will likely never get to experience the Zanuka Project, the Tubemen of Regor, or any other of these major events I remember so fondly.
All frames that are acquired from the tutorial (not when theyre got from the startchart) and all mk-1/starter weapons should be pre-installed with a potato and give the player a forma bundle. DE wont lose money from this, and I would even say they would make more by giving the player some potatoes.
16:00 Oh my god the nostalgia of the old star chart. it actually looks so good. I miss the weird tiles around the planets Cetus should never have been added to the main earth path. It should be locked like ropopolist until you unlock mars
@@Lirka_906 that makes no sense. On cetus you have a lot of resources that you need even in early. As you said, why dont we just to the same with Orb Vallis since you can actually fight the Profit Taker when u have an archgun deployer? (Ik you need rank 5 on fortuna to do that, but still my point is up)
I love the game but I’m absolutely frustrated about the lack of tutorials in the game. Every single thing I learned about the game I had to find myself. By the time I hit Railjack and Liches I was frustrated again because I knew I had to start googling and learning away from the game to figure out yet another system. Imagine trying to figure out kuva liches just from the game and not going to the wiki
Honestly just a final fantasy style tutorial that started up when you first enter the mod menu, explains each section, and walks you through slotting your first mods would go a long way. That way it could explain the symbols, explain stances since they give you an early stance now, maybe give an early aura and explain those as well. It would be a huge improvement.
As someone who has personally helped two irl friends get into Warframe and play it for like 2 years now (as well as countless in game Tenno) I couldn't agree more with everything you've said in this video. I hope DE does something about the new player experience as I can't always be there as a helpline for my irl friends and it feels bad:/
I have the exact same experience starting also 2 years ago, now I’m MR 26, one of them is MR 27 and the other is MR 28. But I have twice as many hours as them and twice the number of total enemy kills.
@@arryxjalaxy2881 man i been playing since jan 2015 and im only mr20 because i hate farming up forma so im missing most of the weapons i need for MR lol
Some people dont like to figure things out for themselves much rather have someone hold their hand through every step of the game. Not hard to google something.
@@djaysyn777 But the game shouldn't force people to have to google basic things because the game didn't tell them how to do them. More advanced stuff, sure, but basics like how to use mods, how to use the foundry, the market, etc should be explained in-game. If the first ten hours or so properly explained all of the basics, then new players wouldn't feel so lost as to what to do and then they would enjoy the sense of discovery in the game. Without those basics covered though, players spend hours completely unprepared and lost as to what they should be doing.
@@dashkataey1740 they added an in game tutorial in the mods section. As for the market and foundry I cant imagine what is confusing about those. Everyone is different though but ive been using guides to play my games for about 3 decades I'm just used to it I guess
God, I remember the olden days of warframe, coptering around corpus tilesets with frost with dual zorens. Remember when endgame was seeing how long you could last in Pluto defense? Or how Rubedo Alerts were more valuable to veteran players than potato alerts? Remember Alerts? I still have my 4-forma Burston in my inventory. That puppy carried me through so many T3 void missions...
Yeah, I've started playing in 2013 with Saryn and Braton, and I still playing with Braton Prime. Despite what everyone says, for me, it's the best weapon (of course it took 8 formas, riven, top mods, .... to make it good ).
@@Arthur_Revan I'm doing that with the Latron! Thanks to double tap, riven, and galvanized mods, I can use it in Steel Path to great effect (managed to hit a 1.1 million damage headshot the other day :D)
I am 10 hours in and I'm really enjoying the game. Personally, I understood the modding nearly immediately, the only struggles were that the quests weren't really showing up. I also got a void relic thing, which I don't know what to do with. I know you can get prime stuff, but I don't know how to open them. I just installed the segment and then they assumed I would know it. Another great thing about Warframe is the community, they are so nice and kind, and they are always willing to help you. For example, right now I am gathering materials for Wukong, but I can't get some items yet because they aren't on the planets I've unlocked. I asked if someone could bring me to the planet to gather the materials there were lots of people willing to help. There were even people who were willing to help me grind 10k of some materials. I've never experienced such a kind and wholesome community.
Hey there ,old Warframe player , haven't been able to play since i don't really have a console,but I'm not sure if you still play or not,you gotta do relic that appear on the navigation (on the bar to the right ) missions to open relics ,tho judging by the time you're probably almost endgame by now 😊
I love this game and have been playing it since 2014 but it is full of issues DE never bothered to fix and which have grown worse over time ( powercreep and balance , the grind growing to become a ton worse over the years , open worlds being awful in general...especially for new players but for veterans as well , the story , worldbuilding and lore being delivered too slowly and scarcely , ecc... ) , some of them making me take longer breaks from Warframe every time and making me feel less willing to return each time I pick it back up . The start chart is confusing to new players especially with Cetus and Fortuna being available so early on for them to visit , the new "reworked" boss fights are not newbie friendly ( hell , the Jackal is one of the first bosses you used to face and he was a simple one to fight...an introductory boss to the game...now he one shots newbies and veterans alike at the first mistake by having them deal with mechanics they don't know ) . There is literally too much to farm for . Remember back in 2015ish when they had promised to lessen the grind ? Yea...now we have liches , railjacks , syndacates whose rewards are locled behind time-gates , rng-gates and grind-gates....having you play minigames which have nothing to do with warframe's gameplay and which simply are not fun , mechs , operators , eidolons and arcanes for literally everything , focus , kuva , arbitrations , steel path , normal frames which are more painful to obtain than primes and whatnot . The game became overwhelming , awfully dispersive and so much grindier that you will often farm for a whole day and feel like you accomplished nothing cause you didn't get the mods or resources you needed , the parts you wanted didn't drop...you just wasted 8 hours of your life and didn't even get to build a single thing compared to the early game weapons and frames which literally have you build packs of them a time , constantly farming for and actually obtaining what you need relatively fast . Frames , weapons , statuses , mods never stop being released to undergo a massive serious rework that aims at balancing everything and make it all equally viable and good...even now that MR 30 is a thing...instead every new weapon just keeps being stronger than the ones previously released in an endless powercreep nightmare in which your old Soma is still able to kill level 100+ bombards , sure...but why would you want to pick it when that new primary completely obliterates rooms ?! Frames are always either op or underwhelming and in perpetual need of rework since ages , forgotten on a shelf . There is no sense of threat anymore , even...you are so op people don't organize in parties to pick the right gear for the job anymore and just go " I main 'x' " instead of thinking about what frames and weapons would do good for that specific mission type and for that specific party . The last piece of story we got was years ago and everything is still magically frozen in time with nothing happening at all ( why are the sentients not attacking ? Why are the grineer not doing anything new ? What about the corpus ? The syndacates ? Is there no one who is trying to take the vacant seat of power left by the Lotus ? ) nor do we get any more solidity to the game's worldbuilding ( are the tenno simply just blindly loyal to the Lotus from first to last ? Do they have no political , social institutions ? A military ? Did any of them stray from the path to follow their own goals and become something else such as space pirates , mercenaries , bodyguards ? Did any of them create new colonies or martial schools ? Ecc.. ) . We only get to meet new side-villains that hardly ever get elaborated any further anyway cause they can't even focus on their main storyline . The game is fun and one I usually come back gladly to but it has been 7 years and I only see its issues getting worse rather than be fixed...I am by now not even hopeful they will be solved anymore . DE doesn't seem to care enough or just can't put in the necessary effort to support their own ambition . Their studio isn't small anymore either .
I thought that was the point of content tho? I mean it’s free, n offers much more content then most triple A titles nowadays. It takes a long time to complete and the grind can halt, n get players feeling hopeless actually obtaining said mods n gear n companions and arch wings and rail jacks and operator weapons tons of side arms primary’s and melee weapons so on so fourth, I think they suffered from repetitiveness and that’s y they are incorporating open world. Idk most ppl seem to really enjoy. I returned shortly after the war within and I’ve caught up in just a couple days of playing after work
One of the most fair reviews of warframe from a truly new player perspective I've probably ever seen. It's very interesting, as an older player myself, that I understand almost entirely where he's coming from. Watch the video if ya haven't it's genuinely great and kinda refreshing
I love the idea of a "build your first modded warframe and weapons" quest to explain the mod system, polarities, etc, that sounds amazing. Maybe use that to introduce a character that will link in (one of the factions people to allow segwaying into that later, or a shadow-outline of teshin so you recognize him later, something like that)
You know, when you said, there needs to be a quest through line for first 4 planet, it occured to me - this is the perfect spot to repurpose the old events
“Learn nothing for thousands of hours” hit so close to home with me. I spent 400 hours with basic volt and weapons, and ignored mastery test for the longest time. MR 18 now with 2,500+ been one hell of a ride.
This was me for the longest time, but with a Boltor and a Mag. I ignored the fuck out of mastery, getting four or five basically by accident when I occasionally tried out new weapons that looked cool. Now I am also at MR 17 and.... just around 1500 hours.
I didnt even know how to get new weapons, the arsenal only had plat prices and i wasted my starting plat on something. Wasnt until i looked up how to get new weapons. I thought they all dropped from enemies (like the gorgon) or junctions.
I started playing and my friends that were already finished the star chart helped me out, but we did just farming missions to get frames and weapons, I didn't finish earth for very long but because of them I was something like mastery 5
I still think that each planet should have a self contained story that could breadcrumb it's way to second dream, it's so sad to hear how the story doesn't just take a backseat but is hanging off the bumper until several hours in the game. IDK how others feel but I personally love Warframes story and more people need to see/hear it.
53:55 I can vouch for this statement. I started playing Warframe on the Xbox, and I was the only one of all my friends who played. I sunk about 200 hours into the game, was MR 10, and yet didn’t know what crit chance and crit damage did, because Warframe was the first game that I ever played that had crit mechanics based on stats instead of being based on hitting weak points. A core mechanic of DPS, and I never learned about it until over 200 hours in when I finally decided to look at RUclips for Warframe. Also, don’t ask me how I got that far without looking at RUclips, it was right after I finally had unrestricted access to the internet, so I had yet to realize you could simply look up things you didn’t understand.
38:20 I love to join earth defense on my Wisp from time to time just for the giggles, dropping only the health and speed reservoirs and watching young tennos go "haha brrrrrrrr" while I sit in a corner. It gives me joy knowing I'm kinda helping without taking everything away from their experience :) Edit: But Bro is absolutely right in that point, joining public missions that soon into the game can frustrate a lot of players when your teammates go ahead and kill everything and you just run through a barren map. And also, DE should extend those tooltips you see in the beginning (how to move, crouch, bulletjump, etc) up until all the basic systems are covered (arsenal/mods/foundry). One thing I've noticed at around 33:20 in the message from Lotus, it tells you to customize your wf/weapons in the mod bench, which isn't true. You can upgrade mods there, but have to go to the arsenal to apply them, and that can be confusing. I really hope DE starts building from the ground up on those things, so new players can have a smooth experience.
I also watched his video. As someone who has played Warframe into the ground, I completely sympathize with him about how rocky of a start the game is, especially at this time when Digital Extremes is about to release a big story quest update. I can only hope that D.E., at some point, works on making the early game a more beginner-friendly experience.
Hopefully. Unfortunately, meaningful improvement upon existing issues and content is the opposite of DE's reputation. It's also probably not what would make investors and parent companies happy. They always want immediate growth, if [investment] starts falling they'd often rather jump ship and sell it or focus on squeezing it dry for a last burst of income, instead of working on the long-term longevity.
@@Calamity556 when i started the game years ago when raids were in the game they were alreaey talking about improving the new player experience, dropped the game after the whisp release, and they havent done it, its safe to say its not happening.
My wife just started playing Warframe, and trying to explain to her as a veteran made me realize just how much is in the game that it doesn’t elaborate on and just how overwhelming it can be. You can make an entire college course dedicated to learning this game.
37:50 My first time playing Warframe and seeing someone nuke the whole level actually didn't dishearten me, it made me go "whoa how do I do that?" but I imagine that's not a common thought.
I'm also of the same mind, but yeah as you said I'm also aware even though it makes you wonder how to be like that. You don't exactly get to play the game at any point, since the mission is already over right then and there.
Another thing to add to that is that you would only get the XP for those kills if you stay close to whoever is killing them (is the affinity aura still a thing? Haven't played in 2 years). Good luck doing that as a new player still figuring out the movement in this game to keep up with a vet who knows the little quirks to maximise their mobility.
glad someone else is on the same page as me lol. i started playing in 2016 off of a random youtube video where somebody was map nuking and thought “damn i wanna do that” 😂 kinda sucks to see that so many ppl get disheartened by that tbh
Ah, you know what? Talking about the guidance component of the introduction makes me think... Remember the events? Like, Operation Sling-Stone, Arid Fear, Gradivus Dilemma, Hunt for Alad V, Darvo's events, Cicero Crisis, etc. Given the linear pathing Warframe has decided to go with, it might be advantageous to go back and convert some of those events into quests that fill in the blanks up until Second Dream, because those events were used to introduce new systems and reworks, and they really represent a lot of plot that new players just won't encounter anymore. Plus, I'm pretty sure there's enough events to be turned into quests to go over each planet before you get to Natah on Uranus to keep the plot rolling. Like, Arid Fear could be something of a good 'adventure line' quest after Once Awake, needing you to track down Corpus Informants on Venus to capture so you can unlock the junction to Mars, but it could also serve as an introduction to the Void because that's where they tried to hide during the event, so you could maybe slap a tutorial in there about relics and fissures. Otherwise, There's a couple of event arcs that'd have to arrange properly, like making sure the Fomorian/Project Tethra Arc and Alad V Arc are placed in proper chronology, which is a massive fustercluck in particular with the Alad V stuff. Anyway, yeah, just thinking out loud
This honestly makes a lot of sense, and would save DE some effort in having to design narratives/missions from the ground-up just to provide direction to new players, while also fleshing out the world and deep lore of the universe, that most new players will normally never get to see before they leave. A good story hook in addition to game mechanics explanation would do wonders for player retention, making them care about the universe they're playing in before the power fantasy gets stale, while removing the frustration of not understanding these complicated systems that affect gameplay
"Tenno, the Corpus Informants you captured were attempting to open an Orokin Relic. They believed it held a weapon that might stop you. Taking that relic back to where you found them might allow you to open it and claim it's treasure." *insert void exterminate mission with a lith-level relic* "I'm detecting Void Fissures. They will generate corrupted units, but their Reactant will allow you to open that relic." *after extracting from mission* "That relic gave you a Prime component. It can be used to manufacture a weapon or Warframe if you gather all the components from other relics. If you find more relics, you can spend the void strands generated by opening your relic to refine them, increasing your odds at rarer components being obtained."
that sounds great. im a new player who is now mid-late game and i never got to do those Operations and events. Quests sound like a good idea Also yea not having anything to fill in the gap breaks the plot. I got to 2nd dream and Salad V was like "remember me" and no i didnt remember him
This is a great reaction. Answers where the first impression asks them, and ... long time player who isnt biased in favor of their favorite game, acknowledges faults and explains misunderstood faults that...arent faults. But still this is the main "I love this game, but I hate trying to play it" experience for me. Makes me feel dumb, but space ninjas tho.
I started playing warframe back in 2017. I put a good 100 hours into the game. I loved it, the combat, the art, the weapons, the pets. I did not know that potatoes were in the game until after I stopped playing. I played for 100 hours and that system was never even mentioned once.
I remember going on a 3 month hiatus from warframe and when I came back I learned that these mobs we know as liches was added. I didn't even find out till I looked through the codex seeing what weapons haven't been leveled to see these random kuva weaps, had to wiki wtf they were. Imagine I am not alone when it comes to the kuva weaps
Nah you are, they show themselves to you when you are playing. I didn't know what they were either but the thrall appeared while grinding something else
I feel like I’m one of the few that actually noticed the tutorial button in the lower right hand corner of the screen. Not only does it give you diagrams and descriptions on mods and how they work, they even tell you to use the auto install feature with in that tutorial. I know it doesn’t just pop up on the screen in your face, but it’s not hidden. Honestly, I don’t like being hand held through everything and I enjoyed being able to explore this on my own. I also know it’s not everyones cup of tea and that’s fine, I’m just stating that there is still a tutorial for mods and how to use them to a decent extent without being overbearing.
While the upcoming Tenno Guide feature is an improvement, it's really a shame they haven't gone the distance and given the star chart a real narrative thread; just a quick cutscene with each planet's boss to set them up, with the Lotus telling you about them and instructing you to hurry and unlock the junction to that planet
I was the last member of my friend group still playing Warframe, with almost 3000 hours in. I solo-built my Railjack, completed my first mission and thought, "why am I playing this game?" I logged out and I haven't played since. Never even killed a single Kuva Lich.
I mean you put 3k hours into the game. That's not really the time people have the whole "Why am I playing this game" Epiphany. You put in enough time to familiarize yourself with the game to a point where it doesn't compel you to play further. Very very very few people play games for that long and every game doesn't need to aim to be your 10k+ hour game, thats just silly. If you got 3k hours out of it then its obvious you really enjoyed it for the time you were invested but you got burnt out. Just like 99.9% of players get with every live service game.
37:36 "And I join with my maxed out Ember, where I literally blow up the map instantly. That is a bad experience, no matter what, for that new player, because they get to walk through the level and look at it. They're not gonna kill anybody." That's a bad experience for anyone regardless of how long they've played and it's a very good argument for why DE should rebalance the game, especially any AoE weapons and abilities. Taking part in a power fantasy is fun, being a passive spectator is not.
Honestly that experience for me was what triggered me to want to get stronger like whoa I really need to get stronger I wanna be able to kill everything
This was why I quit playing with public teammates, I had alot of rushers in my missions and I wasn't having fun killing people. I felt like I was a npc watching the dragonborn soloing the entire Skyrim while I was collecting taxes.
how hard is it to put mr locking in matchmaking huh? Just segregate what players get matched with who. someone who has completed TSD shouldnt be paired with people who havent. Mr 16 or so players shouldnt be matched with Mr 5s on earth mission like cmon DE.
Either couldn't remember or it was something along the lines of "in mission time says 4k, steam says 10k" since in mission time, well, counts nothing other than missions lol
I'm at the start where someone was talking about the "New Player Experience." I have a bunch of friends that just suddenly jumped ship from Destiny 2 to Warframe. I stopped playing around the Fortuna release and have come back. They all are in love with the game and are truly enjoying it so I don't really understand where the new player experience is actually lacking.
Regarding the popping parts off of enemies, I remember when I started farming Nekros a very long time ago that I should use slash weapons bc it tears the mobs apart and each part would be affected by his 3 and give more loot. Also, you might've not noticed tearing limbs apart maybe because you use elementals most of the time; for example, radiation disintegrates enemies.
Considering DE's track record with responding to high profile youtubers that aren't in their partner program and thus not already in their pocket, I expect this video to have an impact. Especially since DE has a strong emphasis on reaching out to new potential players.
Goodness, I wholeheartedly hope so. I'm at this point where I now see why the community is split. One side constantly shitting on the game but actually want the devs to listen so the game can be better. And then there's the other side constantly white knighting for DE and letting them getaway with releasing half-baked bullshit.
DE is one of the nicest dev teams I think I've seen in the game. It's really cool to see them playing their own game on Twitch almost daily and answering the chats' questions about the game.
@@underscore_5450 Was talking about how they respond to reviewers' first impressions. They're nice devs, and fairly active. Wasn't what I was talking about, I think, but it is worth noting.
I really hope de sees this bc he’s hitting every single point.Especially about the mods because that is something that needs explanation and Would extremely help players
i dont think that the mods are a problem. the mods where the main reason how warframe hooked me. but josh dont even saw the iceberg. kuva, liches, railjack, eidolons, arbitrations, steel path ............................... its just to much
@@namelessking9068 the game doesnt explain how critical mods are, new players get the impression that they are somewhat optional, only once you gather a bunch, and know which ones to look for do you understand how they fit together for exponential growth.
@@calvinwilson3617 i dont talk about crit mods. crit mods are boring. i talk about warframe mods. wich change your playstile and gameplay overall. range, strenght, efficency, auras, augments, ....
Here is what should DE do: 1. Make mini stories for all the planets and mix in the tutorial for the game-systems with them slowly. I know it’s a huge task, but the Jackal and all the bosses would raise in epicness to fight against, instead of happening on their mission. Also it would give the progression a path and could sell the fantasy of being space warriors upholding the peace in the Solar System. 2. LOCK Cetus, Fortuna and whatever the Infested-one is called (sorry that one i didn’t check yet) behind progression! For example: players have to complete War Within for it. For a new player they are confusing and also the other players there will spoil things for them unintentionally. Maybe when they click on it Ordis should make a sound and tell them that place is too dangerous and the ship can’t land there yet. Just a small thing, but it would help!
Just started yesterday and Josh’s video rings true. Especially about the modding section. I don’t want to look up meta min/maxing stuff but I feel like I need to get into the wiki just to understand mechanics
I saw JSH's video yesterday, having played warframe for hundreds of hours 2018-19. I agreed with many of his points and wondered what about his opinion would change or what new flaws he'd find after getting further into the game.
So funny when the mod screen opened I laughed. This was the most wtf moment of the game when I started too. Now years later understand mods give you the power not MR level.
I agree with not giving the players so much free will at first. I was 120 hours in before I finally got to second dream because for like 45 hours I was just having confused fun with zero idea what to do or how high leveled I needed to be
I do feel after the tutorial it should have a "warning: you are being dropped into the deepend into a game that has had content added on over the years (one: follow current objectives) (two: if lost access the codex and access the quests tab) there will be NO hand holding have fun tenno" that's all it needs just to warn you you will be left like a child lost in a shopping mall
I LOVE Warframe for the freedom it thrusts upon you. Freedom of movement, freedom of direction, freedom of customisation. I enjoy having to do my own research, but you raised some great points about helping the MR5- players out in up until Mars for example. Most of us are so conditioned to only learn to be told what to do next rather than be the captain of their own ship.
20:38 Why can't DE just have one of those pop-up menus that explain what you clicked on instead of having a tutorial button at the bottom of the screen where no one is looking.
Another change I thought about when seeing this video, they should make low-tier weapons like the Braton drop from enemies or at the end of missions, so players can see "oh so if I do certain missions I'll get certain items"
I just logged in for the first time in a few years and the relevance of this video is hilariously apt! lmao. I went online to see what the new stuff was and ended up watching a build guide for a frame I use and was like, "wtf are those shard things? I wasn't able to do that to my weapons...those are some new mods, where would I find those?". Had to spend a while looking stuff up and I'm still not sure exactly what to do.
That comment you made about POE's skills, hit me so hard. Literally gave me a sudo-ptsd flashback to opening that screen, looking at the first couple nodes; and going "Nope, fuck this. Too much to learn, with little to no guidance unless I go to RUclips. I also won't be able to concisely describe it to my friends group even once I fully understand it." (I'm that friend that does all the research and learning and disseminates it to the group). At least with Warframe's mod screen, if you're on comms with someone who's new; you can kind of coach them through it and actively fight that "murderous" overwhelming feeling that comes with the mod screen initally. With POE, I can't see that happening very often.
I was worried he'd not get bullet-jumping straight away, thank goodness.. I've watched a friend play though the whole tutorial and not use it once even when I showed it to him. It was *pure* torture let me tell you... Edit: wasn't expecting old Zime lol but at least I wasn't surprised by the old "navigation" system. Thanks TB, miss you greatly Edit 2: while on the topic of network settings, can we get the "never host" option especially now with the cross-play around the corner, and as others have pointed out "always host" would also be a good addition
@Bul Thaosen Then thats just bad game design if the grind is so great that you are forced to speedrun meta farming methods to have a viably fast progression.
@@-Iyeong come on I love his voice... Planets and bosses need more lore. And bosses need a rework, jackal was amazing. Its a good way to set up new players for a ride.
I love how JSH is all like "wow this gameplay i have to manage my shields oh boy the systems mastery is so rewarding"/ Yeah, buddy, that doesn't stick around. You're having fun now while the gameplay MATTERS, but in 300 hours the game actively gets WORSE and it LOSES mechanics to the sheer, overwhelming firepower you get. Warframe is the only game I can recall where the game gets LESS FUN the farther you get.
Found your channel recently and its wild to see how great the new player experience is from when I started playing. Back when Giant Bomb released a shitload of Alpha keys, I hopped in and it was...rough. Actually, the original design during the alpha was very much a rip off of Deadspace with the modding system and such. In the Alpha, you just chose a Warframe and started doing missions. All the missions were the same on the ancient OG Corpus ship tile set no matter what faction, roster was 5 Warframes, and weapon mods didn't exist. You had to level your weapon up and install upgrade nodes you found in missions to activate different capabilities. Part of me wishes that's what the Incarnon stuff was, but it's whatever. Took a break after Second Dream and Sisters of Parvos, just started playing again and am having a blast. I know DE is all about expanding the game for those of us that have been around for a while, but I still think they need to go back through and handhold players through a lot more than they do.
As a closed beta player, I thought all warframes were the same and just different skins. I spent two years trying to figure out how to get different abilities for my Excalibur only to realize that they were different warframes entirely. good times
40:00 What if when you open your mods screens for the first time on either your Warframe or weapons, we get Ballas describing to Hunhow (like what he did with the vitruvian) how warframes seem to vary in power despite sometimes being of the same type, going into what mods are and how endo works. Maybe not the full cutscene possibly just his voice which fades in
Stealth wise I used to love going Ivara and just sneaking through the entire mission getting stealth kills and the like. I used to enjoy that. Oh and to add about the part where you get public queues. It used to be so jarring when you load into a map with a maxed out vet and they literally vanish, the whole map nuked and all you see it loot on the floor and you're just casually strolling through. It was the most unmotivating thing lol.
There's so much stuff in this comment that reminds me of the points you made in the Impromptu Warframe Podcast you did in March last year with Sara. So many remaining issues new players run in that will probably not be addressed any time soon.
Josh's video got me back into warframe, and there are so many things I'm doing, so many systems demanding my attention, and so many items to keep track of that it actually feels like work. I actually do have a tab on my browser on my second monitor dedicated to the warframe wiki. Every new system feels like opening the hood of a car when you have absolutely no clue how to work on cars.
Check out the video in question here and say hello/leave a like! ruclips.net/video/iutAnzTT9W0/видео.html
You have always been anti pvp, even as a concept, you even hate it in Dark Souls. Many of us would play pvp if it is actually fun, there are plenty of pvp examples to borrow from to make it good but they keep listening to people like you who hate competetive play if it does not involve cards, and the weird people on the forums who hate getting killed in a game by another player and take it as a personal attack.
@@NobleNomad warframe movement and combat is not designed for pvp.
@@SteelWolf5280 This perspective just undermines people's perceptive and adaptive abilities actually, even the Stalker hunt trials didn't display this fictional issue. The "movement" isn't the problem, the conclave PVP does not even function like the main game already and has shit ass arenas. Also, Warframe was not designed for a lot of things until it was put in. The movement in Warframe in needs an upgrade in general honestly, not merely for PVP. They been talking about parkour tweaks for 5 years now, they need to actually do things like that.
But getting back to PVP, Brozime just doesn't like PVP period, which is why he wants Dark Souls to not have any either despite the slower pace and very distinct controls between the two games.
39:00 rant about "New player queue": MRs were 0, 1, 2 and him in that mission where he said "You can't kill things". Though he might have been thinking of another mission. It's not even about MRForma at that point.
@@NobleNomadI used to play conclave but I had to stop because I got tired of trying to shoot people when they are flying across the map constantly. There's even a mod that increases movement speed when low on health to encourage running away Instead of engaging in combat
Thanks for the reaction :)
Since my video I've been contacted by several warframe players offering to help show me around and support the journey, the community has been extremely positive and genuinely lovely to interact with.
Thank you for the video! The offer absolutely is extended from me as well if you'd ever like to stream together, have questions, or get further into Warframe!
It's unfortunately part of the Warframe experience. Fun content gated behind zero explanation. My partner and I have been getting into Railjack this past week, and boy that introduction is unhelpful. Luckily I enjoy poking around in menus so actually learned how to play.
Your video shocked me: I had no idea Warframe had a tutorial.
I love both you guys' content this is like the sickest tv crossover episode ever
Helpful community is basically what this game has in place of properly explained gameplay systems.
"Hopelessly addicted as he is now." Yeah that sounds like someone who plays Warframe
Stopped playing when plains of eidolon came out, back for 3 days been playing for about 13 hours a day farmed plat for volt prime, farmed wisp and finished like 4 quests. Fucking love this game
@@danutpescaru then get burnt out hate the game then come back say I love this game and repeat
The cycle of warframe in a nutshell
*Accidentally drops two pennies*
@@wobby5325 this
Hopelessly addicted describes me after my friend got me into it and my girlfriend who i got into it and my dad, no thanks to warframe though.
"We'll fill in the plot later"
2k hours and still waiting for plot to be filled
i have been playing for around 4k hours and im kinda not bored but im only keeping myself busy by farming rivens
5k hours still want to see where the story is going do at the same time im a ex destiny 1/2 player and still dont know WTF the darkness is
There's a plot?
@@Phoenix-td9mj realizes it just forces you to grind a shitload of tedious objectives that force you to play excessive amounts of the tedious core "gameplay loop" to even get to play any of the cool content.
Also not even mentioning your choices for those grinds are either doing the same boring strikes or getting crapped on by the current crucible meme meta.
I miss back when we knew actually nothing, and there was nothing. When our place in the setting was as nebulous as our grasp of the games deeper mechanics. Good times.
What's even worse is that the experience of "I'm in my ship and I don't know what to do" exists for people returning to the game after any amount of time. I have 1.4k hours into the game on Steam, probably way way more since I had an MR 14 account on PS4, and hours on the individual client. I was gone for 2 updates and "I'm in my ship and I don't know what to do." Over and over and over again and I actually have played the game.
Same here actually. Have over 1000 h in the game, went away for a while and felt completely lost after returning. Could not get into it again.
@@monikadp1740 Currently going through this. Returned couple days ago after a year break, there's a gajillion new systems and mods it's genuinely overwhelming. Just yesterday I told my friend "Warframe feels like a game that's designed for those that never stopped playuing".
Gone for a couple years and I am so confused as to what I can do. At least the quests exist
1.4k hours and only MR 14?
Same, its taken me 2 years to start playing again having dropped it because I've never had the time and willpower to figure wtf is going on AGAIN. I'm semi competent again now but only after spending 2 weeks on the wiki and watching many hours of yotube content even though I'm a returning player
My only complaint of Warframe's physical gameplay mainly comes from what a mess it becomes in late game, due to the obscene increase in number values. The failures of its backend systems are VAST. Warframe is a video game that needed two sequels to rewrite the rules with fresh eyes, got those sequels, but installed them all into a game called Warframe.
Do you and Pat still play? And does paige know about Pat's space hats?
This reminds me of a thought that randomly occured to me recently while playing with Tenet Cycron:
DE in 2014-15: we nerfed Synoid Gammacor because it made every other weapon obsolete.
DE in 2021: Here's Tenet Cycron. It has unlimited ammo, stupid amount of damage, chains to multiple enemies and has both high status and crit chances. Balance? Fuck it, don't care anymore.
They completely lost track of numbers and gave up.
Yeah and the sad part is that the game can be amazing when its slowed down. Some of the best experiences with Warframe for me were when i was new and doing void cache runs (because the wiki told me there were mods in them or something) or doing spy missions for something. (until i had to spam them to get ivara...ugh)
Raymond Mertin am still doing void cache runs up to this day cuz rare orokin containers can contain formas ... never enough formas im telling ja 😂
oh cool to see you here plague
So I’ve been thinking about this over the last few days: What if after you kill Captain Vor, a “generous patron” called Alad V shows up, starts giving you endo and credits and stuff and shows you how how to mod your frame. All the while Darvo is like “ehh i know you rescued me from prison but like, I wouldn’t trust him if I were you”. But he’s giving you all this good stuff that you kinda ignore the advice, and then it turns out Alad V is basically fattening you up for his Zanuka Project. (Could even force that mission in where you get captured)
Would be both a good way to explain the mechanics and providing a useful insight into the greed of the corpus…
AND THEN STUPID DARVO TRIES TO SELL YOU A SKANA FOR 140 PLAT!
the thing is it's hard to show how to mod properly because of the always changing meta
@@fhvawrvc8260 it doesn't need to be "current meta level" properly. It needs to be "no questions on how to install 4 mods, and why" properly.
@@ydziros Really, the main "Damage +" and secondary "Elemental +" should be explained thoroughly. The amount of times I have had to tell new players that "Damage +" has diminishing returns and that they need to diversify their stat boosts is every time.
It would be cool if you had this right before venus, so you had a mission were he invited you to his office or something and you could just walk into a level without enemies attacking, but by the end were he tries to kill you the facade reveals and you have to shoot your way out
The grinier is clear, but we never get an explanation why the corpus hates us (as a character, not the tenno in general) aside from the fortuna quest
"what an incredible game to play, but why"
I've been playing for a year, hit MR 25 recently and I still don't know why, all I know is that I must level
NUMBER GO UP
Everything for the mr
fashion frame is endgame lol
man to be able to do that in a year you are a mad man been playing since 2015 i play nearly every day (took 2 years off during 2016-2018 because i got way to into paladins) but like im at 3000+ hours and just hit mastery rank 20 this month lol
i realyl need to start farming up more weapons (i do have like 26 in my foundary built so i guess ill start with those)
@@DeputyFish To be fair I've almost always had an affinity booster running, and have purchased all of the accessory packs with 90 day resource boosters
My general strategy has been to build as many weapons and frames as possible, leave them in the foundry, and then grind them all out during a x2 affinity weekend
I think the easiest way to sum up warframe's new player issue is that the tutorial only teaches you how to complete a mission and not how to play the game.
It's very sad if Digital Extreme really said: "making the new player experience better didn't keep more players playing". It makes it seem like their expectations for the average gamer is way too high. Like they haven't truly seen a pov of a new player like this.
All that says is they aren’t really making the game easier.
Oh yes we need another game that holds your hand like youre mentally disabled. Yep thats what everyone wants. Not all games need to be for everyone. In warframe the whole journey is starting to understand how "OP" you can become and enjoying the fruits of your labour when you do.
@thefunny4706 they already explain most mechanics. Thats why they made quests. Introduce new mechanics or warframes. The second dream was a tutorial but their attempt to add story as well. The new war was mostly story but also introduced the whole "unveiling" mechanic for the specific game mode and its playstyle when u play the grineer dude for the weekly missions.
@thefunny4706 the game is fine as is and you dont need a checklist every step of the way at the top of your screen "oh go kill 10 grinner. Oh go collect 5 tellurium. Great now go to foundry and craft kohm". There is a million and one mmo's like that and the one thing they have in common is they are all dead and forgotten. From lineage to adventure quest. Same formula, same hand holding and everyone using the same gear, only varying by level. Also RS is also a good example, since it uses the same formula but doesnt hold your hand. The quests need videos or wikis to complete. Money makers as well. It has challenging content like jad or inferno. Guess what, surprisingly RS isn't dead. Hmmm I wonder why. And if he tried to play any of the RS's without using that info as a new player he would also cry about not being "autopiloted" through all the content. The only reason he doesnt is nostalgia+years of experience (so a bias, which to any "reviewer" should be a sin and leave them jobless).
@@zDemoGODz Yes, newplayers need to have handholding to a certain extend, idk whats so hard to understand abt that. You might not need it, but that doesnt apply to everyone, and if u want to go with the notion that wf isnt a game for everyone, then sure, that nullify the argument of new players staying in the first place. Guess DE shares the same mentality too, with all the gatekeeping.
And also, whats wrong w using the same gear? You need to walk before u can run, newplayers need to use the same gear first before they can learn how to mod, it s like if school gives out a test before they teach students anything. They need to know the limit of what they can do before they go beyond that, thats what new player quests r abt. And I think u r misunderstanding the notion here, no one is telling DE to make WF a quest simulator, Broz here said the same thing, hold their hands until 2nd dream, or at the very least, until the first planet/junction, so they know what they can do.
They already explained the mechanic? Didnt they also said this in the video? DE literally went, heres a thingamajig, heres a blobunator, they "explained" it, and expect the players to fill out the gap in details themselves, I dont consider that explaining. The 2nd dream was a tutorial? Great, then why did they leave the new players lost n confused before the tutorial even started?
This has always been the case for the game anyway, the gameplay is fun, the design is shit, especially the UX design. I thought they would learn over time, ever since the god forsaken thing called raids, but alas, still shit.
This made me realize that WF has a lot in common with EvE in terms of how it presents itself to new players. That is, best foot forward... straight off a cliff, while expecting players to learn how to fly real fast (much like many bird parents).
It's not ideal, but perchance the strategy will eventually evolve.
Warframe does do it better though, as content is pretty streamlined.
@@dascreeb5205 You are also a lot less likely to get randomly ganked and get your ship exploded out of nowhere.
@@banhammer3904 I spent more time warping to other side of the map to get a .5% increase in value of selling my stuff
I feel like the Junction requirements could be remade into light questlines. Establish the boss of the sector, have some gameplay goals tied to light plot. Just another missed opportunity
I mean some of the bosses have little irrelevant plot blurbs when you do the assignation mission shouldn’t be too hard to expand that
@@Kayaba01 Right? There's always something about how XYZ system boss runs the factories or the mines or is harming the colonies or building something that shouldn't be a thing. If Lotus can pop up and drop some seemingly random lore when you show up to kick this stranger's ass, then they for sure have a place to start.
that would be cool as hell, I'd love to be guided to each junction like that
@@Kayaba01 I mean half the bosses in the game actually had relevant plot that DE never bothered to keep in the game.
Ambulas boss fight, Tyl Regor, Kela, Alad(most of his questline is out of order and completely missing). All those old operations could've been turned into mini quests to help expand to world
DE ain’t touching anything in the past
Warframe would benefit MASSIVELY from a fully featured CAMPAIGN mode that continues until some time after you unlock Operator.
Didnt they do that already?
@@glazeuniversagladis2499 I think he is referring to a linear series of quests between the tutorial and Second Dream to start off the world-building. Some of the quests (eg waverider, open world intro quests etc) could do that, but it doesn't seem as centrally important as the Operator Trilogy and the lead-in to New War
@@glazeuniversagladis2499 The story in Warframe is severely disjointed. You have very important events completely missing. Stuff that takes place before certain other events being later in the star chart. And side quests featuring one of the the main antagonists that you can completely miss/skip.
I kind of wish they made a new, separate game that was just a campaign.
@@snowpoint720 me too...
As a vet it's easy to forget how the new player experience is. That was a good video to remind me.
Same. First time I joined wf it was overwhelming. It's extremely easy to get lost as a new player.
I quit at every turn. Every kill screen mentioned made me delete the game. But then i came back and went further, until the next time i got stuck. The last time i quit was because i was so burnt out from playing so much for so long and i just couldnt do it any more.
tbh the community and etc is really nice as well as those ingame that help new players. My guildmates actually gave me my first prime and I was shocked well they knew I was farming to all hell and back to earn my first. lol
Hi I think my cat is sick can you check her out?
love the profile pic~
Watching the original vid, really made me crave those junction bosses again. I loved beating a frame and having a big laser shoot out into space to create a bridge to the next planet. Felt really epic.
They are still there?
@@Joel-kc5jk But there's no point in repeating them. It was a sense of real progression because they were a content gate that you had to beat to get access to the next planet.
@@jazzyj7834 you're right.
Really want them to add another planet, and we have to do those again. To tau perhaps?
Oh sweet summer children you have not reached steel path, have you?
He makes a really good point at 37:50 I can see how new players would be turned off by watching their teammates obliterate everything. But the experience Brozime just used, having a maxed out Ember come in and absolutely melt everything in existence, that literally happened to me. I was in awe at the amount of power you could have and immediately wanted to main Ember, which I did until her rework. She was also my first Prime. Damn those were good times
Thats what i was thinking. Its a coin toss. Be annoyed. Or be awed.
I had the same experience playing Mag. Here I am, out of energy, low on ammo, just doing my best, and then the next mission is Saturn Defense and another Mag is just standing on the cryopod pushing 3 once and then pulling in all the loot. I definitely asked them how I could make mine do that.
ive had beef in the past with saryn players because my gameplay was reduced to standing still on the objective and watching the affinity numbers popping up on my screen but now i became the thing i hated most lmao
I was at awe when it happened back when I was new, that quickly fades away after it happen several times.
I remember thinking "I have to play solo if I actually want to play this". Also finding another newbie(s) is like a Big Foot sighting.
Now that I'm the vet, I usually try to be mindful about them; only using secondary weapon and marking cache, Silver grooves, or Corrupted vaults. (all restraints are off during relic run however)
JSH basically said; The game is really good, but has some serious flaws.
He was completely spot on. I’m so glad he did his video...and he gave DE some great guidance on how to improve onboarding for new players.
@@Gigawood indeed but will de do it. maybe but would maybe take 1 to 4 years. i notice de some time listen to only new player more then vet players or when to say no to fan and when to say yes to fans.
@@Gigawood Which they will entirely ignore because he isn’t big enough. Only TB could save Warframe this its plight.
The saddest part of it all is that DE is well aware about the mess of system flaws and archaic knowledge crammed into the head of the game but have assigned it a lower priority if you paid attention to what Pablo said during the Tennocon stream. He claimed DE would rather make new, exciting content instead of fixing older, broken systems because the former is what draws newer players in and gives older players reasons to come back - consistent with DE’s design mentality for the past almost decade or so but also showing the glaringly obvious forgotten section of Warframe players, those in between. New players get thrown into information overload central and Warframe retains but a small fraction of the new players that got hooked in by the space ninja theme mostly because nobody knows what the fuck modding the warframe for the specific mission type or the levelling and allocation of said mods or enemy damage types or status v crit builds or energy efficiency and a billion other mechanics are. Warframe needs a completely redesigned mid-game section - my vision would be to use different bosses to gatekeep different mechanics. Maybe after defeating Vay Hek you learn about mod capacities and levelling mods. Maybe Jackal teaches mission types and how to mod and suggest better frames for them. Maybe Lech Kril teaches elemental resistances, status types and enemy classes. Someone else teaches void relics, someone else teaches resources and optimised farming. I’m a veteran yet when I jumped back in it took me a solid 2 weeks to understand the lich system, let alone the mid game players who neither have the ability, the understanding or even the WANT to get rid of them. I really hope that enough people pester DE enough to warrant them going, ok New War is cool and important but we should REALLY improve the player retention after the first tutorial so players like me don’t watch half of all their friends who tried the game drop it after Venus.
@@bakoompanda6255 unlikely right now(They see mto want ot beeline toward the NEW War) but it could be the focus of a patch
Honestly that new tutorial/start up sequence was REALLY GOOD. A shame that I first started playing Warframe like 5 years ago.
It was really good, but it did nothing for the problems that affect the new player experience
@@analogicparadox If anything it put to light even more how bad the new player experience it is, since now we can compare with the new tutorial and dream how good it could have been, brozime ideas looked realy cool. We can always dream.
Oh the good ol days
5 years ago was when Warframe was at its peak. You should be glad that you got to play it back then. It wasn't as broken as it was back at launch, but you also didn't have that many burnt out veterans and people were still in love with Second Dream. The new tutorial is gorgeous though...
Loki starter frame made it hard for me to get into the game, ngl. Was worth it when I came back tho.
It's funny, Steve said that revamping new player experience didnt help much with retention - yeah no shit. When after the intro quest you are still dumped into starchart with no direction and its still unplayable without wiki, 32:35 is all spot on, even I felt the same when replaying it from a new account. The questline should also teach you the basics step by step - thats how you design games.
I've been playing since 2013 and i STILL wiki everything. I came back after a 2 year break because i heard about all the new updates. I had no clue what sisters of parvos was or how to start it. I was still trying to build a railjack in my dojo. I still had not killed my first lich because i never learned before stopping last time. You literally have to watch DE's streams and announcements to know how to play the new updates. It's NOT how you retain players. new or experienced. with that said i'm having more fun now than i've ever had. the game is coming togther piece by piece. almost a decade later xD
So you want your hand held?😂 there are many games that just drop u in and people with more than 2 braincells can learn to go from planet to planet
Honestly, I've only recently started using the wiki and I've only used it twice. Other than that, I've just been figuring everything out on my own...somehow
@@artemis5265 With a game like this, new players should have the option to have their hand held to a certain point. There's a reason why most games like these have an optional tutorial/text guide as they play. There's no wonder why new players stop playing after no more than a week.... Not everybody is gargantuan brain, sorry to break it to you.
@@artemis5265 no shit everyone can get that but warframe is actually bad in terms of tutorials, wanna know why the community is so helpful? BECAUSE THE GAME AINT GONNA BE THE ONE TO HELP YOU THATS WHY. We veterans help new players because we know theyre not gonna learn anything from the vague "tutorials" DE put in place like how are you supposed to get into edio hunts without natural progression? Warframe is a bunch of content islands and fact is youre not gonna know a lot of the things to do without asking or googling
I pray DE looks at this video and implements the suggestions. It solves all the issues with bringing in and retaining newer players. The game would be thriving. Ordis would be a cool way to direct players through early missions/mechanics
DE regularly watch Brozime's videos and streams, but they don't usually address the issues he brings up. At least not in the right way. Usually DE, thinking things will just sort themselves out, wait for a problem to get really bad. Then they panic and implement a fix that only puts a band-aid on the issue, or even makes the problem worse.
Spoiler alert, they didn't and I'm pissed.
Nah you'll get a new tutorial that's more confusing than before and you're gonna like it
The trouble is as well, that when the community says that things need explaining better... DE takes that to mean, "We want a massive cinematic quest with lots of cutscenes!!!" When all the players really mean to say, is put in some basic but well structured and easy to understand instructions of how to do things. Take the mods for example, I do not think anyone thinks that lots of time and effort needs to go into making a quest about it. Merely a basic mission where you have Lotus or Ordis (or even just some text on screen ffs) tell you to kill a dude, pick up the mod that dropped, and when you get back on the ship it leads you to the mod console and gives a concise explanation of where to put it and how to level it.
I honestly believe that if Warframe's systems were structured a bit better, that their player base would easily be double or triple what it is now.
I have recommended the game to quite a few people, and of them, they ALL immediately liked the game, followed by getting exasperated with it and giving up. And of them, I only got one of them to come back and play and I played through the Starchart with him explaining it as we went and he now plays the game all the time.
JUST IMPLEMENT SIMPLE, CHEAP, EASY EXPLANATIONS FOR NEWER PLAYERS, AND BETTER EXPLAIN THE NEW ADDITIONS TO EXISTING PLAYERS!
"Shut up nerd! Space Ninja!" got me through the first 20 hours of the game
As a thought for the "never uses a stance" idea, something I've noticed when helping new players or introducing ppl to WF is that everyone assumes that it drains capacity instead of adding to it. Same with Auras to lesser extent.
After I started using stances I began automatically cringing when I saw a newbie without one equipped, it hurts to watch.
these are the reason why A lot of experienced players just gives mods that are necessary for the start
like some stances, auras etc...and they will actually try to teach the 101
because the game just kind of teaches something like a parent then throws you in the middle of a City then leaves you there.
They never explained about stances and mods. I never even thought I could equip a wrong polarity stance and still get bonuses. It's +4 capacity instead of +10, but still.
@@ratlinggull2223 yeah that's the biggest thing newer players don't understand when I'm explaining it to them
@@raymondgreen9379 The game has a ton of examples for bad UX. While we're on the topic of stance mods, there used to be a clear big arrow next to the capacity number to denote an increase. Now it's been changed to a tiny hat that no one can see. I can't fathom why they just don't put an obvious plus sign over there instead. A plus sign!
the worst thing about starting out in warframe is the energy economy .. it isn't until hundreds of hours into the game that you realize arcane energize is a thing and that warframes have abilities that you can cast like ALLL the time !!
True. Imagine someone taking mag or volt or getting some other warframe along the way forgot to pick Zenurik after TSD , utter nightmare.
*still remembers when energy siphon was all we had*
Oh yeah, that was one thing i didnt enjoy when i was a new player. The slower gameplay was nice and cool, but my energy staying at 0 for the rest of the mission cause I was unlucky felt kinda bad. Once i got zenurik and warframes that could refresh their energy, like protea and nidus, it felt a lot better.
@@wood5596 Wow, that's actually a very good statement, I can't think of Nidus without Zenurik or Arcane Energize.
@@AbominationalFailure I used equilibrium mod in my early days. I can't remember if it was ever useful lol
Yeah, starting out wasn't easy. But I remember the excitement when I learned something new. Going solo was fun building my dojo. Now I have a few clan members. I got my daughter, her old man and my grandson started. I taxied them to the Jackal early. That gave them a frame to rank up and gave them mastery rank. Learning the game was easier for them than it was for me. All I had was the Wiki. They had me and a dojo. I don't think they would have continued playing without the original help. Now my daughter is showing me things. Mostly on Deimos and in the Railjack. She wants to rank up to be able to give blessings. I never really cared about MR but I'm struggling to stay ahead of her. After all I'm the Founding Warlord of our clan .
It's really weird to consider how two of the most recent tileset reworks impact the perception & progression of the story in the early game. Prior to the Jovian Concord & the Deadlock Protocol, the Amalgams, Sentients & Parvos Granum don't really come to mind as anything significant. I wish DE would've kept some of the more spoilery elements on hold until after their respective quests/boss/events. The story of Alad V is the most janky experience to cobble together.
JSH is great. I love his thoughts on Warframe. You hear that DE, your new opening is good, now expand upon it!
Yeah, more early game narrative missions connecting you to things and directing you towards the plot are absolutely needed. Hitting that wall of "What do I do now?" Is deadly to new players, as I can attest from when it nearly killed my interest when I first started.
@@notsae66 Agreed, I will give it one thing tho. When I first started the lack of direction lead me to asking for help. I got into a good but small clan, who gave me all of the essential mods, guided me through the game and offered me a small group to enjoy this game with. I've since left that clan, but I still try to do the same. There is a benefit to making you rely on others. I won't however pretend that my experience is the normal experience.
@@notsae66 that's exactly what happened to me 4 years ago
"Feedback noted, we will now ignore its existence for 2 years starting now"
-DE probably
The opening to warframe is so awful that as an xbox beginner I haven't played warframe since they added the open world section to the game, spamming Hydron every single day burned me out and I couldn't take it anymore and when they added massive amounts of quality content I refused to regrind it all on PC, the new player experience is the worst in any genre and if they refined it, warframe could reach SOOOO many more players and breathe new life into the game....Second Dream should still absolutely take a long time to reach...that climb to reach the experience you're given after like 100 hrs is unlike anything else in gaming.
For what it's worth, I too am thousands of hours in, and - having heard all of Ordis' hidden logs and knowing his full story - I have proclaimed Ordis to, in fact, be the goodest boi and I refuse to mute him for any reason whatsoever. With all he does, and all he's put up with, all for my sake... I can tolerate his shitty pun for the thirty-four-hundredth time. I can do that for him.
only real reason i turned him off was that he kept randomly insulting my colour palettes while i was fashioning. i just want to live my life, man
I had Ordis muted for a long time, but when he started becoming more plot relevant around late 2016/early 2017 I unmuted him. I just want him to call me star child again :(
@@jayleno2192 aww thats so sad i wanna be called star child too
ordis very lost opportunity. they just keep making more and more new shitty characters. we didnt need nora who speaks in an accent that makes you think united states exists in this universe (it does not and never did). and then creation of 10 more bland characters when we had ordis and they could have added more and more variety to him over the years. once the variety runs out - people mute him.
@@fartloudYT Almost every character that isn't living on a open-world colony speaks with an American accent though.
I think JSH’s whole video highlights how Warframe is a game split in two, and how we as veterans tend to forget that the first half is so different.
For the first half, energy is a rare commodity, abilities have to be considered and used carefully, enemies come in small waves, there’s no real reason to play missions as quickly as possible, you are a space NINJA.
Just look at how JSH is playing the game. That’s the game DE expects you to play out of the gate.
The other half of warframe, which you transition into toward the end of the starchart, is a game where energy is a common resource, abilities are used almost constantly and enemies come in massive waves that have to be killed as quickly as possible in order to get the same sense of rewards, you are NOT a space ninja, but a space WARRIOR. This is the warframe that you and I play, and it is NOT the same game.
I personally preferred the first half, I feel like the combat feeling that JSH praises all over this video is thrown away by the second half’s design of ‘kill millions of dudes as fast as you can”, however, I won’t make any argument that one ‘side’ of warframe is superior, the second half is the more popular side for those who stick around and I still play warframe 6 years later. Clearly I enjoy the game to some extent still, but the fact that the game has these two sides gives warframe a serious identity problem, which has really lessened my enjoyment of the game over time.
Very accurate depiction. Funny thing is, the other huge indie f2p darling Path of Exile runs into the same exact situation. When you're starting off you play so meticulously. By the end you're blasting through maps at the speed of sound.
Theres that whiplash of beeing a space ninja in the mission, and beeing a space tax consultant noone showed the spreadsheets to outside of it.
I replayed Warframe from the start recently and this is very true. I honestly think the first half was more interesting and involved, but I do wish energy problems were better handled for earlier missions
Thx for sparing me time to write xP
I sign under every word.
De does think we are playing that firs part game, thats why the do things that to us, actal players, seem totaly delusional.
Sometimes I feel warframe combat would have been more engaging if it took more of a Mass Effect approach to combat.
But its too late for that. Warframe is already in so deep.
As an old school veteran who was around during the days of Boltor Prime dominance and Raids, after I took an extended break around the release of PoE I was so lost when I came back a few months ago. I had a pretty good understanding of things, I’d been playing for several hundred hours with a bunch of other players who all knew what we were doing. When I came back I felt like a total newbie again. I had no idea what I was doing with the new high level content, a lot of frames and weapons I used to main had been reworked or made irrelevant, the general build strategies had changed and I had no one experienced who I was still in contact with. It took me weeks to get back to a point where I felt like I could be confident in my knowledge and there are still some things where I’m a bit shaky. I very nearly gave up but I powered through and I can confidently say I’m back to being addicted
Prison of elders
Actually, I think that Nora and an introduction to the nightwave system might be a really good way to DO an early planetary story structure without needing to make too much new shit. Making whole new cinematic quests for only early players to interact with is going to be a hard sell, I think, but having a proper introduction to Nora as a character as her show kind of guides you through early planets might be a really nice way to make both that situation easier and make her feel a bit more grounded in the world. She's always bothered me a little bit for not really feeling like she fits into anything else, despite how prominent she is as a gameplay fixture.
I really wish DE would add early game campaigns, adding back in the narratives of past events fleshing out the grinner and corpus bosses as antagonists.
Oh yes this definitely this. I still barely know anything about most of the bosses in the game and I’ve been playing for 5 years, but I know that they all have a story to them because of all of the events that I missed.
I legit fought the ropopopulyst, or whatever his name is, just to unlock nodes. and natah just came out of nowhere to talk to me.
Legit feel so disconnected about the lore lmao
The ideal would be tailor-made mission nodes for every planet. Instead of copy-paste extermination or spy, imagine having a story context to each one that’s relevant to the boss of the planet. Each one essentially becomes a mini-campaign
@@toagradius8856 if i remember right there used to be transmissions about the boss of a particular planet not just in the assassination mission but also the regular missions that lead up to that misson
There desperately needs to be a rotating cycle of old events being run back through. My lil bro has no fucking clue what I'm talking about when I tell him we are the absolute worst for fucking over Tyl Regor, or that Salad 5 deserves to be killed a thousand times because he's been playing for a year, and will likely never get to experience the Zanuka Project, the Tubemen of Regor, or any other of these major events I remember so fondly.
All frames that are acquired from the tutorial (not when theyre got from the startchart) and all mk-1/starter weapons should be pre-installed with a potato and give the player a forma bundle. DE wont lose money from this, and I would even say they would make more by giving the player some potatoes.
Yeah, get them addicted on full capacity instead of showing them that they can survive without potato early game
I mean doesnt the “season pass” give you enough potatos now? Or is it still difficult for new players
Slots and potatoes reek of mobile games, neither should exist
@@jgsource552 Pretty much, and they’re not hard to get, only thing that might be difficult for newer players is Slots.
@@jgsource552 7 potatoes every 4 months is not nearly long enough
16:00 Oh my god the nostalgia of the old star chart. it actually looks so good. I miss the weird tiles around the planets
Cetus should never have been added to the main earth path. It should be locked like ropopolist until you unlock mars
yup. Cetus should unlock after you can walk with Operator. Since that's when you can actually fight the Eidolons
Hmm
@@Lirka_906 that makes no sense. On cetus you have a lot of resources that you need even in early.
As you said, why dont we just to the same with Orb Vallis since you can actually fight the Profit Taker when u have an archgun deployer? (Ik you need rank 5 on fortuna to do that, but still my point is up)
Want to have more nostalgia? Here I go: ahem, FUSION CORE FARMIIIIIIIING
I love the game but I’m absolutely frustrated about the lack of tutorials in the game. Every single thing I learned about the game I had to find myself. By the time I hit Railjack and Liches I was frustrated again because I knew I had to start googling and learning away from the game to figure out yet another system. Imagine trying to figure out kuva liches just from the game and not going to the wiki
Honestly just a final fantasy style tutorial that started up when you first enter the mod menu, explains each section, and walks you through slotting your first mods would go a long way. That way it could explain the symbols, explain stances since they give you an early stance now, maybe give an early aura and explain those as well. It would be a huge improvement.
As someone who has personally helped two irl friends get into Warframe and play it for like 2 years now (as well as countless in game Tenno) I couldn't agree more with everything you've said in this video. I hope DE does something about the new player experience as I can't always be there as a helpline for my irl friends and it feels bad:/
I have the exact same experience starting also 2 years ago, now I’m MR 26, one of them is MR 27 and the other is MR 28. But I have twice as many hours as them and twice the number of total enemy kills.
@@arryxjalaxy2881 man i been playing since jan 2015 and im only mr20 because i hate farming up forma so im missing most of the weapons i need for MR lol
Some people dont like to figure things out for themselves much rather have someone hold their hand through every step of the game. Not hard to google something.
@@djaysyn777 But the game shouldn't force people to have to google basic things because the game didn't tell them how to do them. More advanced stuff, sure, but basics like how to use mods, how to use the foundry, the market, etc should be explained in-game. If the first ten hours or so properly explained all of the basics, then new players wouldn't feel so lost as to what to do and then they would enjoy the sense of discovery in the game. Without those basics covered though, players spend hours completely unprepared and lost as to what they should be doing.
@@dashkataey1740 they added an in game tutorial in the mods section. As for the market and foundry I cant imagine what is confusing about those. Everyone is different though but ive been using guides to play my games for about 3 decades I'm just used to it I guess
God, I remember the olden days of warframe, coptering around corpus tilesets with frost with dual zorens.
Remember when endgame was seeing how long you could last in Pluto defense? Or how Rubedo Alerts were more valuable to veteran players than potato alerts? Remember Alerts?
I still have my 4-forma Burston in my inventory. That puppy carried me through so many T3 void missions...
I started a bit later but my refusal to let go of my Vectis even though I haven’t used it for literal years now is definitely the same.
Still have my formad boltor p for the same of old times
I also remember when oxium dropped in single digits, making zephyr a pain in the ass to build.
Yeah, I've started playing in 2013 with Saryn and Braton, and I still playing with Braton Prime.
Despite what everyone says, for me, it's the best weapon (of course it took 8 formas, riven, top mods, .... to make it good ).
@@Arthur_Revan I'm doing that with the Latron! Thanks to double tap, riven, and galvanized mods, I can use it in Steel Path to great effect (managed to hit a 1.1 million damage headshot the other day :D)
Liked his video, he got some solid opinion of this game, it was so "innocent" :D
"It's ninjas in space!" Jokes on him, it's actually teenage space wizards.
@@SeaRaven227 With Mommy Issues.
@@zeteny741 😳
@@SeaRaven227 just like the "ninga" from naruto.
@@SeaRaven227 And this is so warframe level of out of context.......
I am 10 hours in and I'm really enjoying the game. Personally, I understood the modding nearly immediately, the only struggles were that the quests weren't really showing up. I also got a void relic thing, which I don't know what to do with. I know you can get prime stuff, but I don't know how to open them. I just installed the segment and then they assumed I would know it. Another great thing about Warframe is the community, they are so nice and kind, and they are always willing to help you. For example, right now I am gathering materials for Wukong, but I can't get some items yet because they aren't on the planets I've unlocked. I asked if someone could bring me to the planet to gather the materials there were lots of people willing to help. There were even people who were willing to help me grind 10k of some materials. I've never experienced such a kind and wholesome community.
Hey there ,old Warframe player , haven't been able to play since i don't really have a console,but I'm not sure if you still play or not,you gotta do relic that appear on the navigation (on the bar to the right ) missions to open relics ,tho judging by the time you're probably almost endgame by now 😊
I love this game and have been playing it since 2014 but it is full of issues DE never bothered to fix and which have grown worse over time ( powercreep and balance , the grind growing to become a ton worse over the years , open worlds being awful in general...especially for new players but for veterans as well , the story , worldbuilding and lore being delivered too slowly and scarcely , ecc... ) , some of them making me take longer breaks from Warframe every time and making me feel less willing to return each time I pick it back up .
The start chart is confusing to new players especially with Cetus and Fortuna being available so early on for them to visit , the new "reworked" boss fights are not newbie friendly ( hell , the Jackal is one of the first bosses you used to face and he was a simple one to fight...an introductory boss to the game...now he one shots newbies and veterans alike at the first mistake by having them deal with mechanics they don't know ) .
There is literally too much to farm for . Remember back in 2015ish when they had promised to lessen the grind ? Yea...now we have liches , railjacks , syndacates whose rewards are locled behind time-gates , rng-gates and grind-gates....having you play minigames which have nothing to do with warframe's gameplay and which simply are not fun , mechs , operators , eidolons and arcanes for literally everything , focus , kuva , arbitrations , steel path , normal frames which are more painful to obtain than primes and whatnot . The game became overwhelming , awfully dispersive and so much grindier that you will often farm for a whole day and feel like you accomplished nothing cause you didn't get the mods or resources you needed , the parts you wanted didn't drop...you just wasted 8 hours of your life and didn't even get to build a single thing compared to the early game weapons and frames which literally have you build packs of them a time , constantly farming for and actually obtaining what you need relatively fast .
Frames , weapons , statuses , mods never stop being released to undergo a massive serious rework that aims at balancing everything and make it all equally viable and good...even now that MR 30 is a thing...instead every new weapon just keeps being stronger than the ones previously released in an endless powercreep nightmare in which your old Soma is still able to kill level 100+ bombards , sure...but why would you want to pick it when that new primary completely obliterates rooms ?! Frames are always either op or underwhelming and in perpetual need of rework since ages , forgotten on a shelf . There is no sense of threat anymore , even...you are so op people don't organize in parties to pick the right gear for the job anymore and just go " I main 'x' " instead of thinking about what frames and weapons would do good for that specific mission type and for that specific party .
The last piece of story we got was years ago and everything is still magically frozen in time with nothing happening at all ( why are the sentients not attacking ? Why are the grineer not doing anything new ? What about the corpus ? The syndacates ? Is there no one who is trying to take the vacant seat of power left by the Lotus ? ) nor do we get any more solidity to the game's worldbuilding ( are the tenno simply just blindly loyal to the Lotus from first to last ? Do they have no political , social institutions ? A military ? Did any of them stray from the path to follow their own goals and become something else such as space pirates , mercenaries , bodyguards ? Did any of them create new colonies or martial schools ? Ecc.. ) . We only get to meet new side-villains that hardly ever get elaborated any further anyway cause they can't even focus on their main storyline .
The game is fun and one I usually come back gladly to but it has been 7 years and I only see its issues getting worse rather than be fixed...I am by now not even hopeful they will be solved anymore . DE doesn't seem to care enough or just can't put in the necessary effort to support their own ambition . Their studio isn't small anymore either .
I thought that was the point of content tho? I mean it’s free, n offers much more content then most triple A titles nowadays. It takes a long time to complete and the grind can halt, n get players feeling hopeless actually obtaining said mods n gear n companions and arch wings and rail jacks and operator weapons tons of side arms primary’s and melee weapons so on so fourth, I think they suffered from repetitiveness and that’s y they are incorporating open world. Idk most ppl seem to really enjoy. I returned shortly after the war within and I’ve caught up in just a couple days of playing after work
One of the most fair reviews of warframe from a truly new player perspective I've probably ever seen. It's very interesting, as an older player myself, that I understand almost entirely where he's coming from.
Watch the video if ya haven't it's genuinely great and kinda refreshing
3000+ hours and im still learning this game.
There's always something new or something that I missed
Warframe in a nutshell
"Are Warframe players good people"
Warframe community votes to kill lotus
Kill it with fire!!
I love the idea of a "build your first modded warframe and weapons" quest to explain the mod system, polarities, etc, that sounds amazing. Maybe use that to introduce a character that will link in (one of the factions people to allow segwaying into that later, or a shadow-outline of teshin so you recognize him later, something like that)
You know, when you said, there needs to be a quest through line for first 4 planet, it occured to me - this is the perfect spot to repurpose the old events
The end of the game for one of my friends was failing the MR9 test. They have never relogged.
Mt 11 pre titania wouldv murderd him just on the practice
Mr*
Yup, I remember that test, had to look up multiple videos to figure out how to pass it, and it took multiple days of attempts after a lot of practice
Skiajati (if one has it) trivializes that test.
Also Wisp's jumping invisible passive
@@austinbutcher8106 ruclips.net/video/E_n2NRhXv-I/видео.html
“Learn nothing for thousands of hours” hit so close to home with me. I spent 400 hours with basic volt and weapons, and ignored mastery test for the longest time. MR 18 now with 2,500+ been one hell of a ride.
This was me for the longest time, but with a Boltor and a Mag. I ignored the fuck out of mastery, getting four or five basically by accident when I occasionally tried out new weapons that looked cool. Now I am also at MR 17 and.... just around 1500 hours.
I didnt even know how to get new weapons, the arsenal only had plat prices and i wasted my starting plat on something. Wasnt until i looked up how to get new weapons. I thought they all dropped from enemies (like the gorgon) or junctions.
Same dude if it wasn't for RUclips I'd still be playing with Excalibur and my skana 😂
God, oberon with magistar and his ar from his pack were hundres of hours of just not knowing what I was doing while playing defense in earth
I started playing and my friends that were already finished the star chart helped me out, but we did just farming missions to get frames and weapons, I didn't finish earth for very long but because of them I was something like mastery 5
I still think that each planet should have a self contained story that could breadcrumb it's way to second dream, it's so sad to hear how the story doesn't just take a backseat but is hanging off the bumper until several hours in the game. IDK how others feel but I personally love Warframes story and more people need to see/hear it.
Yeah nothing happens until you get to Uranus pretty much, and by that point you lost a lot of players
DE needs to pay you for doing this video. The amount of invaluable advice you gave them in improving their game is astonishing.
53:55 I can vouch for this statement. I started playing Warframe on the Xbox, and I was the only one of all my friends who played. I sunk about 200 hours into the game, was MR 10, and yet didn’t know what crit chance and crit damage did, because Warframe was the first game that I ever played that had crit mechanics based on stats instead of being based on hitting weak points. A core mechanic of DPS, and I never learned about it until over 200 hours in when I finally decided to look at RUclips for Warframe. Also, don’t ask me how I got that far without looking at RUclips, it was right after I finally had unrestricted access to the internet, so I had yet to realize you could simply look up things you didn’t understand.
38:20 I love to join earth defense on my Wisp from time to time just for the giggles, dropping only the health and speed reservoirs and watching young tennos go "haha brrrrrrrr" while I sit in a corner. It gives me joy knowing I'm kinda helping without taking everything away from their experience :)
Edit: But Bro is absolutely right in that point, joining public missions that soon into the game can frustrate a lot of players when your teammates go ahead and kill everything and you just run through a barren map.
And also, DE should extend those tooltips you see in the beginning (how to move, crouch, bulletjump, etc) up until all the basic systems are covered (arsenal/mods/foundry). One thing I've noticed at around 33:20 in the message from Lotus, it tells you to customize your wf/weapons in the mod bench, which isn't true. You can upgrade mods there, but have to go to the arsenal to apply them, and that can be confusing. I really hope DE starts building from the ground up on those things, so new players can have a smooth experience.
Hahaha, just did the Wisp thing, it was very funny.
You were my lifeline when I first started playing.
Dang I gotta try this!
Thx I will do this now to lol
"You see what's happened here, is he has encountered.....some random bullshit."
Fucckk im dead lmaooo
I also watched his video. As someone who has played Warframe into the ground, I completely sympathize with him about how rocky of a start the game is, especially at this time when Digital Extremes is about to release a big story quest update. I can only hope that D.E., at some point, works on making the early game a more beginner-friendly experience.
Hopefully. Unfortunately, meaningful improvement upon existing issues and content is the opposite of DE's reputation.
It's also probably not what would make investors and parent companies happy. They always want immediate growth, if [investment] starts falling they'd often rather jump ship and sell it or focus on squeezing it dry for a last burst of income, instead of working on the long-term longevity.
@@Sleksin Yeah, I'm not gonna hold my breath. Especially after Tencent acquired the company, anything could happen now.
@@Calamity556 when i started the game years ago when raids were in the game they were alreaey talking about improving the new player experience, dropped the game after the whisp release, and they havent done it, its safe to say its not happening.
back in the banshee nova days, good times, bullet jump is a luxury
My wife just started playing Warframe, and trying to explain to her as a veteran made me realize just how much is in the game that it doesn’t elaborate on and just how overwhelming it can be. You can make an entire college course dedicated to learning this game.
"If your damage is low enough."
37:50 My first time playing Warframe and seeing someone nuke the whole level actually didn't dishearten me, it made me go "whoa how do I do that?" but I imagine that's not a common thought.
I'm also of the same mind, but yeah as you said I'm also aware even though it makes you wonder how to be like that. You don't exactly get to play the game at any point, since the mission is already over right then and there.
Another thing to add to that is that you would only get the XP for those kills if you stay close to whoever is killing them (is the affinity aura still a thing? Haven't played in 2 years).
Good luck doing that as a new player still figuring out the movement in this game to keep up with a vet who knows the little quirks to maximise their mobility.
That hit me the same too
glad someone else is on the same page as me lol. i started playing in 2016 off of a random youtube video where somebody was map nuking and thought “damn i wanna do that” 😂 kinda sucks to see that so many ppl get disheartened by that tbh
Ah, you know what? Talking about the guidance component of the introduction makes me think...
Remember the events? Like, Operation Sling-Stone, Arid Fear, Gradivus Dilemma, Hunt for Alad V, Darvo's events, Cicero Crisis, etc.
Given the linear pathing Warframe has decided to go with, it might be advantageous to go back and convert some of those events into quests that fill in the blanks up until Second Dream, because those events were used to introduce new systems and reworks, and they really represent a lot of plot that new players just won't encounter anymore.
Plus, I'm pretty sure there's enough events to be turned into quests to go over each planet before you get to Natah on Uranus to keep the plot rolling.
Like, Arid Fear could be something of a good 'adventure line' quest after Once Awake, needing you to track down Corpus Informants on Venus to capture so you can unlock the junction to Mars, but it could also serve as an introduction to the Void because that's where they tried to hide during the event, so you could maybe slap a tutorial in there about relics and fissures.
Otherwise, There's a couple of event arcs that'd have to arrange properly, like making sure the Fomorian/Project Tethra Arc and Alad V Arc are placed in proper chronology, which is a massive fustercluck in particular with the Alad V stuff.
Anyway, yeah, just thinking out loud
This honestly makes a lot of sense, and would save DE some effort in having to design narratives/missions from the ground-up just to provide direction to new players, while also fleshing out the world and deep lore of the universe, that most new players will normally never get to see before they leave. A good story hook in addition to game mechanics explanation would do wonders for player retention, making them care about the universe they're playing in before the power fantasy gets stale, while removing the frustration of not understanding these complicated systems that affect gameplay
"Tenno, the Corpus Informants you captured were attempting to open an Orokin Relic. They believed it held a weapon that might stop you. Taking that relic back to where you found them might allow you to open it and claim it's treasure."
*insert void exterminate mission with a lith-level relic*
"I'm detecting Void Fissures. They will generate corrupted units, but their Reactant will allow you to open that relic."
*after extracting from mission*
"That relic gave you a Prime component. It can be used to manufacture a weapon or Warframe if you gather all the components from other relics. If you find more relics, you can spend the void strands generated by opening your relic to refine them, increasing your odds at rarer components being obtained."
that sounds great. im a new player who is now mid-late game and i never got to do those Operations and events. Quests sound like a good idea
Also yea not having anything to fill in the gap breaks the plot. I got to 2nd dream and Salad V was like "remember me" and no i didnt remember him
This is a great reaction. Answers where the first impression asks them, and ... long time player who isnt biased in favor of their favorite game, acknowledges faults and explains misunderstood faults that...arent faults. But still this is the main "I love this game, but I hate trying to play it" experience for me. Makes me feel dumb, but space ninjas tho.
I started playing warframe back in 2017. I put a good 100 hours into the game. I loved it, the combat, the art, the weapons, the pets. I did not know that potatoes were in the game until after I stopped playing. I played for 100 hours and that system was never even mentioned once.
I remember going on a 3 month hiatus from warframe and when I came back I learned that these mobs we know as liches was added. I didn't even find out till I looked through the codex seeing what weapons haven't been leveled to see these random kuva weaps, had to wiki wtf they were. Imagine I am not alone when it comes to the kuva weaps
Nah you are, they show themselves to you when you are playing. I didn't know what they were either but the thrall appeared while grinding something else
Unironically the first time I’ve seen the new intro stuff. I’d seen the statues but that was it, really well done.
I feel like I’m one of the few that actually noticed the tutorial button in the lower right hand corner of the screen. Not only does it give you diagrams and descriptions on mods and how they work, they even tell you to use the auto install feature with in that tutorial. I know it doesn’t just pop up on the screen in your face, but it’s not hidden. Honestly, I don’t like being hand held through everything and I enjoyed being able to explore this on my own. I also know it’s not everyones cup of tea and that’s fine, I’m just stating that there is still a tutorial for mods and how to use them to a decent extent without being overbearing.
While the upcoming Tenno Guide feature is an improvement, it's really a shame they haven't gone the distance and given the star chart a real narrative thread; just a quick cutscene with each planet's boss to set them up, with the Lotus telling you about them and instructing you to hurry and unlock the junction to that planet
I was the last member of my friend group still playing Warframe, with almost 3000 hours in.
I solo-built my Railjack, completed my first mission and thought, "why am I playing this game?"
I logged out and I haven't played since. Never even killed a single Kuva Lich.
sad story bro
@@radekmartinek2673 dw he'll be back after a year or two.. just like me
Does not sound bad for playing the content as much as possible. It is only healthy to switch things around.
I mean you put 3k hours into the game. That's not really the time people have the whole "Why am I playing this game" Epiphany. You put in enough time to familiarize yourself with the game to a point where it doesn't compel you to play further. Very very very few people play games for that long and every game doesn't need to aim to be your 10k+ hour game, thats just silly. If you got 3k hours out of it then its obvious you really enjoyed it for the time you were invested but you got burnt out. Just like 99.9% of players get with every live service game.
@@Akirathedon92 Yeah, I've never had any game where I even got 1K hours in, to get that much out of one is not a weak showing
37:36 "And I join with my maxed out Ember, where I literally blow up the map instantly. That is a bad experience, no matter what, for that new player, because they get to walk through the level and look at it. They're not gonna kill anybody."
That's a bad experience for anyone regardless of how long they've played and it's a very good argument for why DE should rebalance the game, especially any AoE weapons and abilities. Taking part in a power fantasy is fun, being a passive spectator is not.
Honestly that experience for me was what triggered me to want to get stronger like whoa I really need to get stronger I wanna be able to kill everything
This was why I quit playing with public teammates, I had alot of rushers in my missions and I wasn't having fun killing people. I felt like I was a npc watching the dragonborn soloing the entire Skyrim while I was collecting taxes.
how hard is it to put mr locking in matchmaking huh? Just segregate what players get matched with who. someone who has completed TSD shouldnt be paired with people who havent. Mr 16 or so players shouldnt be matched with Mr 5s on earth mission like cmon DE.
The man said "I've played between 4,000 to 10,000 hours" lmao.
Either couldn't remember or it was something along the lines of "in mission time says 4k, steam says 10k" since in mission time, well, counts nothing other than missions lol
I'm at the start where someone was talking about the "New Player Experience." I have a bunch of friends that just suddenly jumped ship from Destiny 2 to Warframe. I stopped playing around the Fortuna release and have come back. They all are in love with the game and are truly enjoying it so I don't really understand where the new player experience is actually lacking.
Early game Warframe is some of the best 200-500 hours of gameplay you can have, IF you can get past the initial 30 hours.
Regarding the popping parts off of enemies, I remember when I started farming Nekros a very long time ago that I should use slash weapons bc it tears the mobs apart and each part would be affected by his 3 and give more loot. Also, you might've not noticed tearing limbs apart maybe because you use elementals most of the time; for example, radiation disintegrates enemies.
Considering DE's track record with responding to high profile youtubers that aren't in their partner program and thus not already in their pocket, I expect this video to have an impact. Especially since DE has a strong emphasis on reaching out to new potential players.
Goodness, I wholeheartedly hope so. I'm at this point where I now see why the community is split.
One side constantly shitting on the game but actually want the devs to listen so the game can be better.
And then there's the other side constantly white knighting for DE and letting them getaway with releasing half-baked bullshit.
DE is one of the nicest dev teams I think I've seen in the game. It's really cool to see them playing their own game on Twitch almost daily and answering the chats' questions about the game.
@@underscore_5450 Was talking about how they respond to reviewers' first impressions. They're nice devs, and fairly active. Wasn't what I was talking about, I think, but it is worth noting.
I really hope de sees this bc he’s hitting every single point.Especially about the mods because that is something that needs explanation and Would extremely help players
i dont think that the mods are a problem. the mods where the main reason how warframe hooked me.
but josh dont even saw the iceberg. kuva, liches, railjack, eidolons, arbitrations, steel path ...............................
its just to much
@@namelessking9068 the game doesnt explain how critical mods are, new players get the impression that they are somewhat optional, only once you gather a bunch, and know which ones to look for do you understand how they fit together for exponential growth.
@@calvinwilson3617 i dont talk about crit mods. crit mods are boring. i talk about warframe mods. wich change your playstile and gameplay overall. range, strenght, efficency, auras, augments, ....
Honestly man, over 1000+ hours in and I know nothing about mods. I just rely on YT videos for builds
@@Futahnari i dont want to be dissrespectfull. but what is so hard about mods that you cant figure it out after 1000+ hours?
Here is what should DE do:
1. Make mini stories for all the planets and mix in the tutorial for the game-systems with them slowly. I know it’s a huge task, but the Jackal and all the bosses would raise in epicness to fight against, instead of happening on their mission. Also it would give the progression a path and could sell the fantasy of being space warriors upholding the peace in the Solar System.
2. LOCK Cetus, Fortuna and whatever the Infested-one is called (sorry that one i didn’t check yet) behind progression! For example: players have to complete War Within for it. For a new player they are confusing and also the other players there will spoil things for them unintentionally. Maybe when they click on it Ordis should make a sound and tell them that place is too dangerous and the ship can’t land there yet. Just a small thing, but it would help!
Just started yesterday and Josh’s video rings true. Especially about the modding section. I don’t want to look up meta min/maxing stuff but I feel like I need to get into the wiki just to understand mechanics
"It's gonna be important later" is the most Bozime thing ever said in any Brozime video
I saw JSH's video yesterday, having played warframe for hundreds of hours 2018-19. I agreed with many of his points and wondered what about his opinion would change or what new flaws he'd find after getting further into the game.
So funny when the mod screen opened I laughed. This was the most wtf moment of the game when I started too. Now years later understand mods give you the power not MR level.
I agree with not giving the players so much free will at first. I was 120 hours in before I finally got to second dream because for like 45 hours I was just having confused fun with zero idea what to do or how high leveled I needed to be
I do feel after the tutorial it should have a "warning: you are being dropped into the deepend into a game that has had content added on over the years (one: follow current objectives) (two: if lost access the codex and access the quests tab) there will be NO hand holding have fun tenno" that's all it needs just to warn you you will be left like a child lost in a shopping mall
Thats true. Most MMOs will have popups talking about the various content expansions and stuff letting you know new content exists.
I LOVE Warframe for the freedom it thrusts upon you. Freedom of movement, freedom of direction, freedom of customisation.
I enjoy having to do my own research, but you raised some great points about helping the MR5- players out in up until Mars for example.
Most of us are so conditioned to only learn to be told what to do next rather than be the captain of their own ship.
I hope DE sees Josh' vid and this one too. I really do.
20:38 Why can't DE just have one of those pop-up menus that explain what you clicked on instead of having a tutorial button at the bottom of the screen where no one is looking.
I just returned to Warframe after 5 years away and while the new content is amazing even I with prior experience found myself lost at times
It would be so funny if DE randomly applied a hidden modifier to certain loot rolls based on whether you saved the ship in the tutorial
I think it would be cool for the 'tutorial' to also take you through building your first new frame, preferably rhino
Man. I wonder how he’ll feel about the plot once he reaches it. It’s still not a lot, but I personally love the Warframe plot and it’s lore.
Another change I thought about when seeing this video, they should make low-tier weapons like the Braton drop from enemies or at the end of missions, so players can see "oh so if I do certain missions I'll get certain items"
I just logged in for the first time in a few years and the relevance of this video is hilariously apt! lmao. I went online to see what the new stuff was and ended up watching a build guide for a frame I use and was like, "wtf are those shard things? I wasn't able to do that to my weapons...those are some new mods, where would I find those?". Had to spend a while looking stuff up and I'm still not sure exactly what to do.
That comment you made about POE's skills, hit me so hard. Literally gave me a sudo-ptsd flashback to opening that screen, looking at the first couple nodes; and going "Nope, fuck this. Too much to learn, with little to no guidance unless I go to RUclips. I also won't be able to concisely describe it to my friends group even once I fully understand it." (I'm that friend that does all the research and learning and disseminates it to the group).
At least with Warframe's mod screen, if you're on comms with someone who's new; you can kind of coach them through it and actively fight that "murderous" overwhelming feeling that comes with the mod screen initally. With POE, I can't see that happening very often.
I was worried he'd not get bullet-jumping straight away, thank goodness.. I've watched a friend play though the whole tutorial and not use it once even when I showed it to him.
It was *pure* torture let me tell you...
Edit: wasn't expecting old Zime lol but at least I wasn't surprised by the old "navigation" system. Thanks TB, miss you greatly
Edit 2: while on the topic of network settings, can we get the "never host" option especially now with the cross-play around the corner, and as others have pointed out "always host" would also be a good addition
And the inverse: always host.
My connection is actually good and it hurts my soul joining laggy hosts
bullet jumping being added was a disaster for the game
@Bul Thaosen you can skip every enemy and race to the finish in most gamemodes. it makes the game less fun.
@@clembra1 agreed. That's a good addition, will edit it in
@Bul Thaosen Then thats just bad game design if the grind is so great that you are forced to speedrun meta farming methods to have a viably fast progression.
I think we need an early game cinematic quest that introduces Vay Hek
Hell yes, more angry yell turkey.
@@-Iyeong come on I love his voice... Planets and bosses need more lore. And bosses need a rework, jackal was amazing. Its a good way to set up new players for a ride.
I love how JSH is all like "wow this gameplay i have to manage my shields oh boy the systems mastery is so rewarding"/ Yeah, buddy, that doesn't stick around. You're having fun now while the gameplay MATTERS, but in 300 hours the game actively gets WORSE and it LOSES mechanics to the sheer, overwhelming firepower you get.
Warframe is the only game I can recall where the game gets LESS FUN the farther you get.
That's the most subjective opinion I've seen in a while.
300 hours..
Let that poor sink in...
Found your channel recently and its wild to see how great the new player experience is from when I started playing.
Back when Giant Bomb released a shitload of Alpha keys, I hopped in and it was...rough. Actually, the original design during the alpha was very much a rip off of Deadspace with the modding system and such. In the Alpha, you just chose a Warframe and started doing missions. All the missions were the same on the ancient OG Corpus ship tile set no matter what faction, roster was 5 Warframes, and weapon mods didn't exist. You had to level your weapon up and install upgrade nodes you found in missions to activate different capabilities. Part of me wishes that's what the Incarnon stuff was, but it's whatever.
Took a break after Second Dream and Sisters of Parvos, just started playing again and am having a blast. I know DE is all about expanding the game for those of us that have been around for a while, but I still think they need to go back through and handhold players through a lot more than they do.
As a closed beta player, I thought all warframes were the same and just different skins. I spent two years trying to figure out how to get different abilities for my Excalibur only to realize that they were different warframes entirely. good times
40:00
What if when you open your mods screens for the first time on either your Warframe or weapons, we get Ballas describing to Hunhow (like what he did with the vitruvian) how warframes seem to vary in power despite sometimes being of the same type, going into what mods are and how endo works. Maybe not the full cutscene possibly just his voice which fades in
19:43 can you do a video on those settings to help with host transitions?
Stealth wise I used to love going Ivara and just sneaking through the entire mission getting stealth kills and the like. I used to enjoy that.
Oh and to add about the part where you get public queues. It used to be so jarring when you load into a map with a maxed out vet and they literally vanish, the whole map nuked and all you see it loot on the floor and you're just casually strolling through. It was the most unmotivating thing lol.
There's so much stuff in this comment that reminds me of the points you made in the Impromptu Warframe Podcast you did in March last year with Sara. So many remaining issues new players run in that will probably not be addressed any time soon.
Josh's video got me back into warframe, and there are so many things I'm doing, so many systems demanding my attention, and so many items to keep track of that it actually feels like work. I actually do have a tab on my browser on my second monitor dedicated to the warframe wiki. Every new system feels like opening the hood of a car when you have absolutely no clue how to work on cars.