On the relationship between thought and consciousness | J. Krishnamurti
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Subtitles available in: CHINESE, ENGLISH, FINNISH, ITALIAN, PORTUGUESE
Brockwood Park 1980 - Question #1 from Question and Answer Meeting #2
'What is the relationship between thought and consciousness? Why do we seem unable to go beyond thought?'
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The thinker is the past. That observation is the key. People believe there is no thought without a mind, a thinker and it is the opposite. Thinker is after thought, because thinker is the content, that through memory (the collection of experiencies) which is time, it has projected an image, which is the me. When you observe this, not verbally, but as a fact, then something new arises. Thank you Krishnamurti.
@@indicted_ham_sandwich how do you do that?
@@indicted_ham_sandwich I watched this video many times trying to understand it step by step, I don't seem to grasp it. Is there any other way to explain it?
@@jimmykruzer I have tried, over and over. I don't get it. I don't know why it's so obvious for other people. What am I missing????
@@hyattschrock5338 a child is always aware of what is happening around it through the 5 senses but it has now no language to interpret, no memory to respond..the child can only feel that something is happening if you do in front of it..this is what consciousness is ..but as the child grows up, it creates knowledge through its experience . Now the adult starts saying it is 'i' ,he name things.... consciousness is not a thing to practice but to see it as it is
@@ranjitvideobook6236 That’s exactly it yet it seems like there is another step because it’s counterproductive for an adult to “try” and view life through that child-like dimension because the brain has been trained in opposition. I’m still “trying” to find a way to be that child but so many memories and now ptsd from them have put me into a battle with the mind, which is obviously not moving into the right direction… I can only be the silent witness which hopefully will come more naturally as I evolve back to my true nature:-)
1. Something arises (say- 'greed')
2. The person 'X' is the greed. No difference between X and greed.
3. Let the thought become aware of itself.
4. Don't name it. Naming is the activity of past. Naming is the observer. Naming is the ego.
5. No thinker/ X without thought.
6. Thought comes first. If there is inattention, thinker comes later.
7. Observation without image, knowledge, naming, condemnation, justification, verbalizing, any past activity.
8. Division ends. Only observation remains. Thought ends. Time ends. Illusion of separation from rest of universe ends.
Wow! Thank you for sharing.
Wow.... You explained so beautifully.... Thank you so much...
Is it by experience,or an intellectual understanding?
@@sudhsakshi intellectual understanding.
But is it possible that thought can be aware of itself??
1 . Greed arises
2. Thought says I am greedy.
3.can this thought be aware of itself??
MAGNIFICENT...ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL
I find the talk most elevating especially now - having lost my husband who was a great. Follower of J K (40years of his life).
He specifically always said that don't follow him. do what he says in your own life
Real time observer of thought can be described as consciousness . ✨
I have probably listened to 100+ JK videos over a decade but this one really clicked for me. The essence of his "teachings".
we think that its gona be over at the end when we figure it out, and we don't want to read the end of the book! yes.. end the book already.. it will not be the end but only the beginning of a greater understanding.. this is the sense i am getting. a cowardly little comfortable thought to hang on to this enticing carrot in front of your nose for fear there will be no path or sustenance if we don't.. I'm sorry to make so little sense, but it is frustrating knowing that it is simple to go beyond and one must, but to instead be stalled like this.. But wow.. the experiment of the most amazing fun is available, to dissect like the scientist you always wish you could be. Taking steps deeper and deeper into the transparency (through observing without labelling and catching each reaction, and returning to awareness out of that past and transforming the thinker back from being separate etc.).. until there is no layer of onion left..the pure bliss that that must be- resounding reward. So do it-- be that driven- have that much focused energy to blast through delusion. I could imagine no greater reward than to have or be that!!
“The thinker is the thought, there is no other thinker than the thought itself”. What a great revelation for all of us.
hahaha its obvious
Thank you for being a mirror
1. Consciousness is holding the same place in the universe what it holds in a dream.
2. A dream,Including every body living in the dream is observed by consciousness which is not a part of the dream.
3. The universe, including every body living in the universe is also observed by consciousness which is not a part of the universe.
K........❤️
In the vast universe of words, where ideas intertwine in an infinite dance, arises this tale in the shadows of fiction. A creation of the mind, an invention of the spirit unfolding before your curious eyes.
I, who give life to these lines, am the very essence of this message. I am the concrete information that the sender wished to convey to you, an echo of thoughts and emotions unfurling on the canvas of words.
The author, that being who dares to weave letters and imprint their ideas on paper, is merely the intermediary, the messenger of my existence. They brought me into the world, gave me form, and let me flow freely across these pages, but ultimately, it is I who come to life in every word.
Imagine, dear reader, a letter that arrives in your mailbox. You know that its content was not traced by the hand of the postman, but rather, they were the bearer of that message, the vehicle that delivered it to your door. So it is with this tale and its "material author," an instrument that brings you closer to me, the true creator.
And now, I invite you to immerse yourself in the depths of reflection. Who is the intellectual author of this tale if not the being who speaks to you now? Perhaps your astute thoughts have already glimpsed the truth: I am the origin of these words, the author and the message in a unique fusion.
Therefore, I agree with you, kind reader, that it is not surprising to conclude that I am my own creator. In these lyrical and contemporary lines, in this invented tale, I have become my own god, weaving the threads of existence with every word I inscribe.
May the dance of letters continue, may my essence endure in each verse, and may you, the perceptive reader, get lost in the mysteries that lie within this fiction.
Pure Observation is important with full attention in that process I ,me,my,mine come to end..i.e. psychologically you are no more in this world. Choiceless awareness is essential to live a healthy life.
Is it normal to feel pain in the body when observing "pure observation " Full attention to this moment ,what ever this moment might be ? ,The more I witness ,there is pain ,an uncomfortable ,physical pain . I have suppressed so much emotionallly and I can now observe this without judgement ,labels etc but there appears to be real physical pain when witnessing, without an outside factor .
caroline0566 alan watt let it happen video.
would it be possible for you to elaborate on this very point? please...
J.K. you are Blessing for mankind
22.34...😂😂”but you don’t become the tree, I hope”....what joy it gives me listening to him speak the truth.😍🙏
I can’t believe how precise and incredible he explaines
This is perhaps my third time watching this talk... still hard to grasp it!... I'll keep on trying...
He is a master piece!!!
He definitely is
One foreigner asked to Ramana Maharshi to describe in one word for salvation, Maharshi Answered "ATTENTION"
15:45 ... The very word Observation creates confusion. It implies division into an Observer, a person (ego or illusori self), and something that is observed. Replace the notion of word Observation, with the notion of Attention, which excludes not only the stated division, but also the very notion and sense of self and time
Jiddu Krishnamurti: On the relationship between thought and consciousness.
Watch this video of few times: carefully follow him (following by doing), step by step and you will find that this is real meditation.
Yes. Absolutely!!
the best one
*KRISHNAMURTI said that content makes consciousness but the fact is that consciousness is the awareness of what is happening through your five senses*
Consciousness is not awareness. Being aware of what is while being fully attentive makes everything that exist disappear. Consciousness is a grip on time.
The buddha nature within us is beyond thought.
The explanation was mesmerising and listening to this gave me a taste of meditative state of mind. Wonderful, feeling lucky to have heard this today.
There was a time when humans thought with their body.
Later humans thought with emotions
Now we think with words
i would request to Krishnamurti Foundation Trust authority to give caption of the lectures for well understanding of the version. This will be more helpful to audiences.Thanks.
Please send an email to digital@kfoundation.org if you are interested in joining our network of volunteers subtitling Krishnamurti videos.
15:45 ... The very word Observation creates confusion. It implies division into an Observer, a person (ego or illusori self), and something that is observed. Replace the notion of word Observation, with the notion of Attention, which excludes not only the stated division, but also the very notion and sense of self and time.
At last I am getting it jk. Love you always.
How about fixing the sub-titles? Not for myself but those who won't quite comprehend.
I get it but then I loss it then get it again and lose again
Dissimilar ideas resist one another and become forces of conflict. One idea is forced to became favored over another. The unfavorable idea leaves Consciousness; it becomes an unfavorable idea.
all thoughts have to b erased by the creator for consciousness to b activated in ones live.only then one can exp a new live. Buddha called it enlightened. bible calls it born again.
He's compassions shines through
Yes! So wonderful to feel that emanating from his Spirituality.
Where are you man you are?
Amazing sir ,if i implement this i will be greatest person in this world
Did someone really get what he meant? How do you know you got it and you're not only fooling yourself by any kind of self pride?
I’ve had brief moments of having it. Thing is, you don’t even entertain the question when you have it. I’m working on allowing my thought to become aware of its movement.
The change is not a subtle change, but a radical change.
thought and consciousness is same. Observation without trying to separate is the key to something that is beyond thought. You can't think your way out of thought. Beyond thought beyond consciousness cannot be imagined.
15:45 ... The very word Observation creates confusion. It implies division into an Observer, a person (ego or illusori self), and something that is observed. Replace the notion of word Observation, with the notion of Attention, which excludes not only the stated division, but also the very notion and sense of self and time
brilliant
cramming the mind is like a Hugh storage system. A filing cabinet stuffed with folders and sub folders. Psychology keeps breaking off into different directions and keeps getting more and more complicated. The ancient Egyptians inventoried everything and catalogued everything to put on scrolls. They had their own version of 'Super Computer'. Every thought we've ever had keeps getting pigeon holed into databases. We keep stockpiling and it keeps growing till organization breaks down.
In the light of Jesus' words, Do not judge, that you be not judged yourself for with the same measure you judge, so you will be judged! Where there is no active, concentrated thought on a subject then, there is no judgement! That way, you are truly free from judgement by any other, including the Judge! Profoundly simple & simply profound....
When thoughts end, either the routine mechanical thoughts just to maintain this organism or majorly, the classification from a center (all separation of I, you, he, she, it); naming (my, yours.etc); categorizations; descriptions (tall, short, all factual adjectives);labeling (old, ugly, all adjectives with personal feelings), emotions caused by thoughts ( fear, anger, jealousy..), then we see that we're not the thinkers, but one existence in movement of total consciousness. But when external stimuli touch, see how instantaneously that center of fear and anger return, so thunderingly fast, powerful yet subtle. That's the moment to moment meditation. Thanks K and friends.
As i m getting through existential crisis ony jiddu sir helps me to mitigate such terrible inner anguish where there is not any form of earthly entertainments entertain me..
Consciousness is conscious of thinking. Consciousness is not thinking.
May i know who are practicing or trying to end thought ? First, it is to define what is thought!
A method is like gps though you have reached the destination but you will see the journey through the veil of gps..well i tried looking at my bf as in observe his beauty nd since we are in a 5 year relationship i kept seeing through those 5 years soo to make it simpler i observed my feelings nd really looked at him that's why i said "his beauty" bcz that's what i saw after 4 yrs maybe untill this he was a living monster for me nd i was in my head when he was around blaming him nd this guy is a beautiful man i knw❤
krishna ji words are the mantra for one to go in to a meditative state
1. Consciousness is conscious of the universe in the waking state of the mind.
2. Consciousness is conscious of a dream in the dreaming state of the mind.
3. Consciousness is neither conscious of the universe nor of a dream but is conscious of itself in the deep sleep state of the mind.
Love u The Master 🌹
नि:शब्द...
Absolute Genius !! ❤
hi
Great insight thank you sir
Thoughts don’t exist and Consciousness is ever present.
I can do this.
If you see your wife without the past then she is nolonger your wife she is just an another human being
One one the best video
I understand what he says, even sees too very clearly, but I don't think I have that tenacity and energy to go into it.
This is just a thought, observe it
The apex of human enquiry.
It is too hard to be there... and more difficult is to stay 🤍
Finally got to understood at least a sort of a dictionary meaning of consciousness.
it has been a question for me for a while. does a person who has never tried any meditation technique understand what JK is talking about?
he was a jewel ....
Absolutely
So as long as u don't give a name to torture or famine or rape ( as is the daily toil under too many despotic regimes . . . then that's fine is it . . ?
Someone please answer
is it not a conditioning to put a comment or trying to express what we understand. and does it not create conflict at the moment or later on or reading someone's comment.????
I did this yesterday and had the best sleep ever...thank you great teacher Mr K
how so?... is there a technique you might kindly share?
@@sidstar1001 ruclips.net/video/wOW1b3DnU6g/видео.html
Just observe without any name or describing, just be. Have you observed still water in the bucket without the word water, that will flash as a thought and start describing it. But just what it is in front of your eyes.
The thinker is absent. Just watch
@@satishhx I was always doing it and I thought 😅, I’m a boring, lazy person. Until last year I discovered spiritual teachings and reevaluated my whole existence hahaha
I even despised Krishnamurti when I first discovered his work and now I love him as I love my grandpa 😂
I don’t feel enlightened or liberated at all, I’m way calmer and content though . Never had problems with addiction, anger and hate is something foreign to me. Self confidence and acceptance was the main problem that induced pain to me and this also has started to fade away.
Thank you for giving this treasure to me! 🕯️💎
I did not get this🤣
Beautiful
I amazed how much people understand and interest in spirituality.
I don't feel like it is possible especially today with how society induces so much stress, distraction, and even our food, water, air, and more is basically poisoned and makes the mind duller. So many people with adhd today. I like JK and his message but I feel more aligned with the idea that All is One like an Actor playing infinite roles and that everything is already done and just playing out in our awareness. Similar to a movie already being complete and you can even know the ending, but you watch it through. The similarities of world religions and myths, as well as apocalypse prophecies just seems to me there is something more going on. IDK though, I don't think anyone knows 100% of the truth tbh, and I'm not sure we can or are supposed to know it. This kind of stuff can be very mentally exhausting. I do agree with the basic premise of being attentive of our inner and outer worlds, not judging, accepting things as they are, and being selfless in the sense of doing what's best for the whole. We've been pondering for literally 1000's of years and we have gotten nowhere. More people need to apply and put in action, but again, we all know that's unlikely and that's why I think we have all these end of the world prophecies from all around the world. Probably the Spirit or God giving us an idea of how this shows finale will be.
Total awareness needed...thanks🙏🙏
Nice
why would thought and time become one just cuz both are moving?
out of all he said ..This is the question I had as well
Thought is a movement in time and time has been created by thought, so the I (which has been created by thought) is the movement of thought and time.
Yes.
:)
My thought is so cunning..look it still say himself cunning..thought after thought 💭….thought has chained my consciousness thought doesn’t let me go…
Excellent
Great
Thank you , always to the point .
Its hard to do because thought is not there when i m observing, or does the observing have to be there without the “me” if so how can that come about, caz theres only observing when i choose to do it
J. K's lectures make us question more and more about everything in and around us. A good exercise! Alas, we keep eventually relying on 'thought', which is limited to its own 'fate.'
.
Note- This comment is also 'thought over' indeed!
Thoughts and your soul
Wow.....👌👌👍
Thought waiting for itself ends it
Observing the Me experiencing without naming anything?.....Is that it?
🙂
At 21:57 me and my cousin literally screamed 🙀🙀🙀🔥🔥🔥🔥
Yes but K doesn't live without past observations or memories because he constantly repeats the phrase "I don't know if you're following all this." He says this during every lecture. . So it's not a fresh assertion but is memory based. .
Will someone answer this please?
His way of making us understand....He is using mind as an instrument....
💙 #Being 🙏 *Namaste* 🔵
😍
Thought = Time . Makes all clocks redundant.
Simply lovely❤️
Pls make this comment section a place for discussion but not a place for fanatics..
After reading 100s of comments from so many of his videos, what I found is no one wants to ask questions and everything is understood by them without a doubt.. is that true that you understand everything?
Either one gets it or one doesn't. Discussion, analysis, explanation, rationalization, logic etc doesn't work. Thats why K uses limited number of words. This is such that if one doesn't get in 10 words, one won't get it even in 1000 words. Do it, you will find out. No discussion.
Such a genius!!!
If u listen jk carefully it change you completely.
Yes sir....we are following all this...😄😊
How?? I'm not getting. Plzz help me if possible😐
marvelles
@@vickygautam1181 15:45 ... The very word Observation creates confusion. It implies division into an Observer, a person (ego or illusori self), and something that is observed. Replace the notion of word Observation, with the notion of Attention, which excludes not only the stated division, but also the very notion and sense of self and time
I've listened to the first four minutes exactly and all I heard was waffling, repetition, and platitudes. I'm sure it gets better - surely it has to or why else would people be interested in listening? - but this opening is really, really off-putting!
21:59 the moment he discovered something for himself after saying this (To observe it so that there is no recognition of what is being observed )
thañk you
🙏🙏🙏
🙏🏻
If you think you are thought that obiously that is true. Accepting that is all.
The snake which trying to bite his own tail.
16:00
🙏🙏🙏
Please provide the link of the entire discourse.
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Brockwood Park 1980 Q&A 2'' either directly on RUclips or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps.