Can you observe sensation without identifying with it? | J. Krishnamurti
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2021
- Subtitles available in: DUTCH, ENGLISH, SLOVENIAN, THAI
Can you observe sensation without identifying with it? | J. Krishnamurti
Extract from the first public talk in Saanen, 1978.
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Identification is dangerous, so we all must remember this very important point
The ambiguity regarding the uptake of attachments necessary for physical security on the one hand and the slip over into the psychological field resulting in the architecture of the psyche (me) on the other hand happens within the conditioning that pressures you and I to become someone special unto ourselves and worthy of praise from the wider influence of family and society that impels us to conform with its norms and so-called aspirations. This happens around the verbs - ‘to be’ and ‘not to be’ guided by the principles of reward and punishment. So the subtle pressure of conditioning is the psychological danger that goes undetected along with attachments.
I like that, constant sublte pressure can be a tremendous force over time. It´s what makes sailboats go. Likewise we are propelled by the winds of society :)
Adding that conditioning doesn't even have to be subtle anymore for it to work
Inspired writing!! 👌💖
""sensations are natural.
.....
Where there is no identification there is no centre.
.....
So you are discovering that any form of identification Not only with the senses..with the family with the nation..with ideas with conclusions and so on..is the beginning of narrowing down this vast energy and limiting itself..therefore..resisting the vast movement of life.
.......
That identification is the movement of narrowing that vast energy into a narrow channel.
....
So..
Can you observe your senses without any identification?.""
So many thanks..J.K❤️❤️❤️
In real very little things are needed but in our mind we make thing important to feel secure, identified, noticed.
Thank you Sir!
All these people with social media profiles filled with 'identifications' need to watch this.
It saddens me to observe the way people around my environment act now. Before K I was lost and confused about everything. Most people I know are so busy climbing the ladder that they don t even know that they are causing so much grief based on self interest. They are my reflection and I do not wish to be that anymore! Although I m a bit frightening to stand alone I m moving forward.
Man, what a passion that man had, may his energy flow forever....
So we, a bunch of sleepers eventually wake up..🤣😂
Observing without mental action like labeling, judging, critiquing, identifying, etc. 🙏
I sadly don't manage to do that, even when doing nothing and just observing whatever, I keep catching myself describing what I see and telling myself some verbal monologue. Very ingrained habit.
@@kooroshrostami27 keep aside all the knowledge you have gathered lifelong and then see things and ask yourself what do you see are there any labels within the knowledge or database your mind possess ?
@@kooroshrostami27 it can be done it just gonna take awhile Just keep practicing
@@thesage90 True only those will understand it who make efforts as mind going to resists initially and later it become minds/brain habit to see things without label unless we wants to.
K on another level. Many thanks for the upload 🙏
Yes, I find that he held back in many talks and wanted people to 'find out for yourselves', but he was very direct.🙏
This is a miracle of a lesson.
what level was he on? why did he hold a passport which states his nationality lol....he conforms to local laws and over seas laws..not much of an example was he with all his talks of being totally free.. alot of bs and questions on top of questions
@@regidon793 you sir are the reason we need people like K. If you look at your statement and look into it deeply, I'm sure you'll find the answer🙏
Incredible , but makes sense.
Let's give it a try ...
When we want a piece of furniture in a different place we need to push it or lift and carry it. But when the need for change is in the psychological field the laws must be different. Stop thinking over and over the same thoughts, choose something different ... and see what happens.
Excellent exercise for securing Nothing, but the Perception participation. A Book discovered me! “The Awakening Of Intelligence” by pure chance since 1971. Stimulating unknowing relaxation.
Greatest message, about vast energy and narrow energy.
Vipassana is exactly this … observing sensations with equanimity … with the knowledge of its fleeting / impermanent nature ( Anitya) …
But this is not that.
@@endless2804 then what is it
Not at all
Don't Misguide.
Wrong!!! Vipassana is "seeing reality as it is". Vipassana is observing all fenomina, all reality and seeing it as it is.
Observing feelings is vedana-nupasana.
You should go back to your teacher and seek clarification.
🙏Be witness by recognizing the sensations of thoughts and emotions.
I wonder many times, what would have been (my) life meaning without understanding JK!! Thanks for sharing!!!
And I think I wasted my life till I found this wisdom.
Exactly
Oh ! I thought that was only me thinking
One of the clearest and concrete explanations of thought identifying unnecessarily with sensations. He seems to suggest it makes sense for this identification to happen with physical objects (food, clothing, shelter, personal property); but doesn’t make sense with experiences. I get it, but I don’t . As he says at the end, when one discovers this for oneself, that’s when it’s soteriological.
The mind must be fresh when listening to such deep rhetoric
K speaks of actuality which he has clearly in an factual present tense, the now.
This is the core of Buddha's teachings.
Its the core of pretty much every eastern spiritual discipline.
core of nothing r no image.
"my" mind identifies the self with anything ceases observation.
I am a Christian/ I am a Buddhist/ I belong to this or that nation, is quite obvious.
But identifying with sensation into a groove of a particular sense, directed by habits, is it obvious?
Do I know I have obvious habits that are known by others or hidden habits that others don't really notice easily about...? ...
Maybe this is one part of the reason that I have to watch the beginning of my thought -- when the thought arises....
A fraction of nanosecond ....
Can I catch it? Sure I can.
If K did it or Buddha or Jesus did it, I can do, too!
There is an enormous possibility, and that possibility is where K delved into, all his life, to help man into his absolute freedom.
It seems almost impossible to reach his level of seriousness. we just casually listen
Yes,great, like to share experiences...
@@vineetverma546 K said, "The problem a person cannot understand the self is because he comes to understand himself with the eyes of the past. I don't know what the "eyes of the past" meant to be.
But I think it is about anything, good or bad or silly, that can fill his resume and the supporting ideas behind each item traditionally, socially, mentally, psychologically, mechanically ... in the background, etc., which included also is rpride, or depression or self pity and so on...,.
Understanding oneself is the clue, as K said, "If you know how to get to the beginning of the thought, the other is already there," it's not me then but is "the other doing it ...?
Nano second itself is the other ...?
Jesus words come to mind: "My yoke is light to carry and easy to handle." What I need to do is setting the right intention and persevere....
To summarise you
Don’t act from a centre , your action should be intertwined from every random corner.
i.e. Attention / conscious life
@@saketsagar2156 Thank you.
Thank you 🙏🏻 💕
Thanks for uploading
Wonderful. Thank you so much
Brilliantly intelligent!!! Wow!
Just do 10 days vipassana course one will understand what jk is saying .
Are you (thought) identifying with vipassana (form/name/experience) ? Surely this goes beyond?
Rules for physical n Rules for psychological
Are completely different 🙏
When you have this capacity of understanding and this level of intelligence it must be difficult to be around dummies like most of us That must be the reason why enlightened beings retire from society …. fortunately JK stayed
Commenting to help this find whoever it will. For the gratitude of having encountered it.
This is 'Vipassana'
Exactly that's what even I feel.
This man is do intuitively brilliant , impossibke to follow him.
2 hours ago hmmmmm…. Blessings 🙏
Very important lecture! So DISIDENTIFY!!
My bro k my bro you are truth you are absolute you are the light and yet i can't see
What caught me the most about this talk was the fact that this tremendous energy of the universe is being funneled through this being and I'm stuck thinking about how secure I am and how I'm too afraid to move beyond this though process. I'm a warden of my own prison and allow myself freedom enough to go out to eat once and a while, splurge, do drugs when quite literally the power of the universe is animating my body right now. Strange what we are doing right now
Would it be possible to get this full talk? it cuts off before getting real good. Could always put it up on audible too, I listened to the Bohm sessions and they were fantastic.
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Saanen 1978 Talk 1' either directly on RUclips or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps.
alright there was no pressure from him when I was observing, as I did have a thought that the physical needs that I have (which is obvious) is not required psychologically.............. I had that thought before this video came out, but now I'm like re-learning this thing.......
🙏🙏
🙏🏻
Yes, very important disscuion.... identify with out identifyimg, go beyond the words,get the idea of the words forget the word.. effort, with out effort... Thought it self is a thought.
In order to become percuitiant ,the thoughtlessly thoughtless human reasoning should go before it and not oppose it
❤❤❤
Life is style that you wishes. 生活就是你想要的那樣。
Your life is your style what you want.
Life is style. 生活就是自由。
Sentations r evernew but recognition by thought brings past ie Me giving past strength
That is the point.....you say once “I” ask questions!? Why? - Not ask questions? That is the point! Where is the Moon, the pointing finger shows you where, but the finger pointing is not the Moon! That is the “point”. Ask no questions get no lies. It takes no time to get the point, you are not the point or the Moon!? That’s the point. The journey Never ends “and that is the point”!? Peace With oneself, Breathe you are not the breath, look you are not the look, jump you are not the jump....Next Junction..... you are not any of the junctions. Enjoy the journey Breathe is taking while eating - breakfasts, Remembering You are not breakfast. Regards
🙏🙏🙏
❤
From our childhood we were taught what meaningless sensation mean by recognizing and associating ideas to sounds and visual symbols.
When you finally de-identify with sensation you’re simply pulling away your power of perception. It is absolutely easy to do. Ask yourself this question, if I was a day old baby, how would I see this?
The interesting thing that will arise is that ultimately the only constants of your being is your awareness and sensation. Perception came along (taught to us when we were kids; also called conditioning) to create meaning out of what we were sensing. That is ultimately why you can understand these symbols you’re “reading”, which when presented to a day old baby will be utter nonsense.
When we began to perceive things on our own, we began to form attachments to things in our physical reality based on our emotional investments in these physical things.
It’s is very easy to de-identify, when you understand that your power of perception is what has given meaning to everything in your reality. Take it away and all you’re left with is nothing but awareness and sensation, just like a little baby.
❤
You are using the word "perception" a bit oddly. What is the difference between awareness and perception?
What about sexual thoughts with wave of sensation or urge ?
Vipassana
Life is everything, but nothing.你就是一切。
The physical necessities spilling over in the psychological world...
We all must watchful, not to take the matter which is for physical purposes to sycological mind.
19:28 The vast energy is obviously unlimited, unconditioned and therefore universal in nature. The significant thing is that it is centred in all living beings. Even as a human mind knows, understands this vast energy being centred in him or her just as it is centred in others, there comes an instantaneous understanding of the universality of the vast energy. The question of you and I should not occur then, though that Vast energy may be addressed as Christ, Master or Krisna.
This is what the religions of the world mean. What and where lies the doubt then? Arguably, JK is also meaning the same!!
Why we are seeking security?
Security in the outer world is necessary but this has been overtaken physiologically. Money need to be in pocket not in mind
🤯🤯🤯
maybe jk made his best decision to let his vedios to be uploaded on internet
thank you jk trust really thank you
Let all the phisicality and it's needs end up as it is. These should not land up in pstcholigical rehlm!!!! What a wonderful insight
My master you have been my GUIDING AND LEAD KINDLY LIGHT.... Salutation to your divinity.... 🙏
目標就是侷限。you can be greater。
Identification is recognition which is known, past
It's tough
I really don't know what he means by identification with the senses, can someone explain? For example, when I hear the sound of a car outside my window, what would it mean to identify with it?
What arises in you when you hear the sound of the car is it noise desire to possess it, to my understanding this is what you are not to identify with.
Hello Testa,
Is that you? That Nickname? Is there a you, who indentifies with that name?
If I say "What a lousy, studid nickname...!" Are you then hurt? Do you take that person-al?
We humans have learned to identify to all sorts of things to say this is me, Peter, a ... dude, and that is MY car etc. etc.
You understand what I mean with identifying yourself to materialistic things, I am sure.
But we do this also to sensualities. For instance:
If you hear a sound, you then likely THINK; "that's is ME hearing a sound, my body hears it, MY ears are hearing this...."
J Krishanmurti now asks us:
Is it possible that there is an observation, a sound that is observed (or maybe a feeling), WITHOUT this me, this 'person' , the EGO doing the observation?
Is that possible? Is it possible for there just to be a sound? That is for you and me to research....
👍👍👍🇩🇪
Where can i find the rest of this talk ?
Extract from the first public talk in Saanen, 1978.
Can the link to original video please be posted?
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Saanen 1978 Talk 1' either directly on RUclips or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps.
@@KFoundation Just put the source in the description it isn't very difficult.
@@KFoundation yes, that's helpful. Thanks
💜💜💜9.18 VVI
And what does he mean by "thought" identifying with the senses. Isn't it I who identifies with something? Why does he say "thought"? That confuses me.
Or what you not want.
Must be is not.沒什麼是必要的。
K misses the crucial epistemology. What he terms as a "Psychological reality" is fundamentally determimed by the political reality which constrains your thought processes. For example K only oreaches in relatively democratic liberal societies. If he were alive today I eould enquire " why don't you lecture in Saudi Arabia or in Taliban society or set up shop within a Dyesh stronghold..
He wouldn't. . So the question should be why not. ? Another time I'll answer this enquiry.
2:20 pusat terbentuk krn identifikasi
6:20 energi besar ke saluran sempit 7:25 krn membatasi diri maka ada perlawanan
15:00 kebutuhan fisik berpindah ke keamanan psikologis 16:15 mgkn tdk perlu ilusi
12:24 mengapa perlu identifiasi? krn pikiran dlm perubahan konstan dan perlu keamanan, kepastian, stabilitas
I don't see the identification happening during the sensation
Meditation just being aware can help to see identification with sensation in action
Identify with nothing.
if u fee it. its true.
Live sansations without building an "I", an "ego", a "person" (which in etimology means "mask") a character of a novel or a movie, if you prefer, that is fiction, illusion. What I like or dislike. What is good or wrong in a particular, ideological, political, theological perspective. I like chocolate icecream, not hazelnut one so I have a chocolate personality and I gather with the others that love chocolate and I dress like a chocolate. That's very USA way of thinking. I like to do sex with persons of my same sex, so I AM homosexual, or whatever it is, and I join other homosexuals like ME, where I can feel secure. But we are all different one another. There are no two identical individuals in nature. If you like to put it in logic.
Lol i see it
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❤
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