Why didn't my piano tell me this when I was first learning how to read music? she told me to use the metronome but I always found the metronome tended to scramble my brain while trying to listen to the notes and that metronome beat at the same time. This was great help!!
I had a similar experience. Even though all of my teachers were great, only one of them insisted on learning how to count out loud. I eventually realized that counting out loud is helpful early in the learning process and leads to success with the metronome later on.
As a piano teacher for many years, I was delighted to encounter this informative online lesson on the aspect of rhythmic learning I am passionate about (i.e. counting out loud) I keep saying to my students that until neurosurgeons can perfect a magical brain ultrasound (!), I have no way of finding out what is happening in their heads! I may, myself, use slightly different counting syllables, but I think the basic principles are the same; and you do demonstrate some very useful versions when it comes to counting sections of music containing polyrhythms. In addition to the more mathematical approach, I also use fun lyrics and rhymes to assist in more complicated issues, especially when it comes to ornamentation. There are, of course, loads of other auxiliary exercises that link in and assist the development of rhythm in a piece of music you are learning, and I think you have made reference to some of these when outlining your excellent approach. I just hope that the 'non-believers' will be converted; it all makes great sense. Thank you for your work and very beneficial ideas!
Crystal clear. I see very popular teachers on RUclips who don't push this. My teacher totally puts rhythm first. It's rhythmic fluency, musicality, expressive intention!
@@FlexLessons that is very validating to hear coming from you. I'm pretty sure they skip it because people need to relax, let go, get into a flow state. It's very hard to coach. I've been a job and a half to coach. But it's the whole enchilada. Without it, you're typing.
I’ve found that almost all students strongly dislike counting out loud, especially younger ones. How do you overcome this difficulty and make the process more pleasant? Or convince students that borderline refuse to count. I’ve also found that counting all the subdivisions is very necessary for beginning stages of learning since the longer values tend to get rushed. So totally agree.
It’s just not optional in my studio. Every student learns to count. I randomly quiz them all the time, haha. I am insanely persistent. I believe that is they key. A student who is resistant to the idea will not invest in it if it seems like it is never called upon, so I call upon it very often. Also, success feels good to all students, and counting is often the fastest path to success in a variety of situations, and so I always work to help students experience that sense of success often. I am totally with you on the use of subdivision.
@@FlexLessons i wish i knew about this. I think I gave up on counting out because it makes me lose track of where I am at on the sheet. I should have tried harder
@FlexLessons I agree fully... I never used to be able to count out loud (so wasn't willing either!)... been learning 3 years and my new teacher (about 12 weeks now) insisted I count out loud...no option not to!!! I am so glad as I can do so comfortably and oh the benefits... it really is essential and makes learning a new piece easier in the long run!... I subscribed 😊
I had a wonderful teacher when I was first at college, and he tried to get me to count out loud but didn’t insist upon it…so I didn’t. Someone really needed to make me!!!
Thank you very much. I don’t even know what the counting is but I hear you emphasize on , I got curious since then I watched many video on you tube about counting and rhythm,
Great Video, hopefully there will be more young musicians growing up that build good habits! Rhythm was absolutely my weakest skill which became blatantly obvious when I entered Conservatory.... For anyone looking to pursue music full time whether as a hobbyist or full time musician, it is pivotal you count and the earlier in your studies or age you introduce this habit the more dividends will be paid out in the long term. The metronome is not enough, many people use the metronome almost on autopilot and still go out of time, even when using the metronome you should count! Counting is flexible, like you've mentioned in another video you can count with a sharp direct speaking inflection or count while singing the dynamics in the phrase by going up and down in volume on certain numbers with short breathe pauses in-between. It's absolutely better to have a more rigid absolute sense of rhythm and loosen up later in comparison to having a rubato filled performance with no pulse and trying to clean up the rhythm afterwards. I would say a lot of people also have a fear that playing so strict and in time isn't "musical" when actually the musical image comes across generally better and more "musical" when the beat is adhered too and not stretched out so much.
Excellent video! Firstly clear and concise with appropriate use of technology that does NOT interfere with the message! Also a great explanation and now something I will incorporate into all my practice. More please!
I am questioning myself if I am the only person who have been struggling learning and counting rhythms using the numbers system 1 2 3 4 | 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 | 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4 e and a | 1 and 2 3 4 e and a | I found myself these system is doesn't work for me even though I tried practicing and adapting to it. This system is confusing form me because in this video you showed two pieces with different counting methods In the Polonaise, you count the rhythm, 1 e and a 2 e and a... In the Arabesque, you count the rhythm 1 and 2 and.... like counting rhythms is depending on situation or a piece which makes confusing to me like there is no exact formula to follow unlike on other rhythm counting systems like the Kodaly rhythm syllables which makes me easy to understand. 4/4 Ta Ta Ta Ta | Ta Ta Ti Ti Ta | I am question myself if I am stupid because in the midst of the popularity of the number rhythm counting system and most musicians and music learners could get this and find this easy, then why I can't do it.
I really enjoyed this video and your teaching style. I have been playing piano since my teens and now in my 30s. I learned the basics from a friend’s mother and kind of taught myself over the years. While I can play advanced pieces, I run into a number of problems when the rhythms become very complex. I don’t feel like I properly developed fingering technique and counting of some of the more challenging rhythms. Can you please put together videos that address improving fingering choice & technique? That’d be greatly appreciated.
I am glad you enjoyed this video! In the future, I intend to cover things like fingering technique. However, I will admit that this can be highly preferential from pianist to pianist.
This is a very helpful video but many people (including me) struggle to count while playing in which they probably get confused trying to count and play at the same time even knowing about all the sub-divided notes etc. For example, when I try to play the 8th notes I end up counting them individually like 1 2 3 4 instead of 1 and 2 and. Do you know how to overcome these problems?
This sort of thing almost always comes down to speed. There is some tempo where you will be successful, you just have to be very intentional. At a certain point, you cross a tempo threshold and your playing is more habitual as opposed to intentional, so its important to practice under that threshold. You may also want to work on small bits of material at once. Basically, the way to overcome the problem is to not give yourself too much to handle at once, and you can control that through reducing the amount of material, lowering the tempo, or splitting the hands up.
Thanks for the video. My only issue with counting is that I keep going up...7+, 8+ and then throw myself off so I stopped. Maybe I'll just count like this 1+, 1+, 1+ or 1 e + a, 1 e + a and skip going up the measure.
That happens a lot of folks, especially in the beginning. Usually it means you need to slow down so you can be more present. I'd definitely suggest sticking with the counting that goes up in each measure if you can.
Good question! I suggest using counting to get the timing of the piece set, and then practice with no counting at some point and make sure the piece sounds the same with or with counting, even as you approach performance tempo.
thanks for the video, i found it very useful. i have one question, when you count, when do you take time to breath? i find it difficult to hold the breath and count 1e+a through ... am i doing something wrong?
I try to make my syllables very short so that they are clear and articulate without wasting breath. However, it's totally reasonable to breathe as needed! Also, I generally only subdivide when I have to work something out or need clarity on a passage. Otherwise, I count a larger unit which gives me plenty of time to breathe. I hope that helps!
How do i move to main pulse. I can still hear the sub-div in my head. Some beats have 8-9 notes in the right hand. Or odd hanging notes like 1ee +aaa . I don't know how people deal with these with out counting. I'm kind of the opposite of what you say. I'm trapped in the subdivisions. ...... I know the answer... practice .
It depends on the piece. Provided there is nothing irregular, you can count every other note, and then groups of 4, and ultimately larger groups. I always move through various stages of subdivision in the learning process.
I'm learning to dance, how do I recognise time signatures and beats in songs where I don't have access to the sheet music? Is that possible? Should I be learning the bpm/sheet music on any classical music I'm dancing to? I'd love a video where you listen to random songs and can identify the beats and time signature just from listening and explaining how you did it
That's a pretty cool idea! If you aren't super experienced with classical music, you can still typically figure out if a piece is in 2, 3, or 4 just from listening to where the strong beats are. It might be helpful to know this information about what you are dancing to, especially if you can't hear it.
Louder or emphasized is probably one way of describing it. I would imagine that for dancing, the main thing is to determine if the piece is duple or triple meter. You can do that by counting in 2, 3, or 4 to the pulse until you figure out which of those makes sense with the music, and then situating your movements accordingly. For example, if you listened to a Waltz or Mazurka, you would quickly figure out that these are in triple meter. I hope that helps! @@kozstandsya1494
@@FlexLessons Thanks for that! I really appreciate it! You could probably incorporate this into your lessons by testing your students to count the pulse (while listening instead of playing) without sheet music in front of them, to solidify that they know it. I'll definitely test myself with this, but I think you've helped me finally understand:)
Awesome video, I have been practicing for about 17 to 18 months and only today I started counting out aloud. 1. It is very hard. 2. I find myself signing while counting, rather than counting to a metronomic ryhthm. Is this normal?
It is hard at first! The key is to go super slow and focus on the counting as a first priority. You want to think of the counting as the underlying structure and you sort of "wrap your piece" around it. It's a totally different way of thinking and it will transform you as a musician. What do you mean by signing?
@@FlexLessons I mean I start singing 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + instead of counting. Also, by doing this I feel like a complete beginner haha will it ever get better? It is very challenging.
I am questioning myself if I am the only person who have been struggling learning and counting rhythms using the numbers system 1 2 3 4 | 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 | 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4 e and a | 1 and 2 3 4 e and a | I found myself these system is doesn't work for me even though I tried practicing and adapting to it. Is like I have to be good in math to count rhythms. Is like I have to count rhythms like this 1 + 2 + 3 √4π and use phythagorean theorem and trigonometric functions like and sine and cosine to process rhythms in a musical piece. This system is confusing form me because in this video you showed two pieces with different counting methods In the Polonaise, you count the rhythm, 1 e and a 2 e and a... In the Arabesque, you count the rhythm 1 and 2 and.... like counting rhythms is depending on situation or a piece which makes confusing to me like there is no exact formula to follow unlike on other rhythm counting systems like the Kodaly rhythm syllables which makes me easy to understand. 4/4 Ta Ta Ta Ta | Ta Ta Ti Ti Ta | I feel I am stupid because in the midst of the popularity of the number rhythm counting system and most musicians and music learners could get this and find this easy, then why I can't do it. Is there is something wrong with me? Maybe I am not good in math to process rhythms or Maybe I have no rhythm at all I really need your help That's All Thanks.
I totally understand your frustration. MANY students share your frustration. It really is similar to math. Saying the right numbers in the right situation is only half the battle...you then have to make sure that you speak consistently. However, if you go through this process, it will completely change how you learn music (and how fast) and it will significantly improve your sight reading. Solving for the things that you are confused about will make all the difference! In my video, I showed you how you can use different syllables for different ends. However, both of those pieces that you mentioned can be counted using the quarter, 8th, or 16th. If you would like to chat with me about this, feel free to visit my site (www.flexlessons.com). On the bottom right corner of the screen, there is a little chat button where you can communicate with me and I can assist you further. Thanks for your comment! I am sure many others will appreciate it.
@@FlexLessons I really appreciate your wonderful feedback and I thanked it that it somewhat decreases my frustration on this topic. I would like to thank also for acknowledging my frustration on this. I have a question, you talk about the importance of counting out loud while sight reading, then how about the pitch. What if I get it the rhythms right but I didn't some of the pitches or notes right because of too much focusing on rhythms? I ask this because it seems that this was easy for you but in reality, reading sheet music is hard because we piano players are not like drummers who only read rhythm. We also read the pitches in the score so reading and that is make reading music is so difficult and we need to multi task them all at once while playing. Aside from that, reading sheet music on the piano is difficult as we know that the treble and bass clef have different note labels so we need to consider also these things not only the rhythm.
Great questions. In most sight reading situations, the rhythm is the priority over the pitches. I'm not saying that it's okay to get all of the notes wrong, but you can always leave notes out. When you play is prioritized over what you play. Think of the pulse as a series of containers for you to "place pitches in". The rhythm holds the underlying structure of the piece...it is absolutely core to understanding a piece of music. In almost all cases where a pianist cannot "multitask", the pianist is simply playing too fast for the situation. To build this skill up, sometimes you must go crazy slow (and subdivide accordingly). @@maximuswilliam318
@@FlexLessons Okay! I did it the counting out loud method in my practice right after you replied to me in the comment section. Guess what! It still doesn't work for me and the worst thing is, since I know already the notes in my piece, it made me hit the wrong notes and make mistakes while practicing it again. In short counting out loud, made me practice the mistakes rather to avoid mistakes and develop security in playing. Aside from this, it makes me stop the rhythmic flow and break the groove because when I am counting, I have to pay attention in saying the right numbers. For example you have a measures in 4/4 time signature, you have to say it like this | 1 and 2 3 4 e and a | 1 and 2 and 3 4 | not | 1 and 2 1 2 e and a | 1 and 2 and 1 and 2 because it depends on the time signatures and it must be | 1 2 3 4 | not | 1 2 1 1 | or something in which there is a tendency for me to sound gibberish, inconsistent or like the sound of trying hard to pronounce tongue twister sentences. Lastly, it made my feeling of rhythm robotic and unmusical because as I said you have to think in numbers instead of feeling the groove which I never experience in the Kodaly rhythm syllables which made rhythm very easy for me to understand Ex. Ta Ta Ti Ti Tiki Tiki | Ti Ti Ta-a | which for me, even though there is no pitches, it still sounds groovy and musical. Sorry if I said this due go my frustrations in this rhythm counting system because it doesn't really work fo me but I thank also for your wonderful feedbacks. I have a question, do you also teach ear training and improvisation? or it is more of a sheet music and memorization classical approach? That's all Thanks, Keep up the good work
It’s not something you can try briefly and decide that it doesn’t work. You would have to live with it and invest in it for a while. However, it sounds like you already have a working system…no need to change it if you have no issues dealing with rhythm and pulse. To answer your other questions, at this time, I do not teach ear training and improv. Thanks for the comment! @@maximuswilliam318
In that case, I would suggest counting 16ths on just that part to learn it, and then switch to 8ths, and then ultimately quarters if the piece goes faster than 60 bpm (or so) = quarter. You can always count 8ths in the parts that have 8ths, and 16ths in the parts that have 16ths, once you have worked out your rhythm.
@@FlexLessonsthanks man you just saved me❤ Btw this video is really gold I've watched 10-15 videos around this topic but yours is the most accurate and easy to understand.. Thanks again
Good teaching! But you got me lost when you said that "our smallest note value is 8th note." I thought it should be 16th note. I am just starting to learn, so please forgive me if I sound dumb here.
No worries! When I said that, I was talking about how to count the minuet in G major. In this piece, the smallest note value is the 8th (there are no 16ths in this piece...remember that 16ths have a double beam or double flag). With this in mind, we want to count everything using the 8th note so as to make all the rhythms correct and proportional. Once you do this, you can "zoom out" and count the quarter instead. I hope that helps!
That is true. However, you can still tap or clap your rhythms before hand. While not being able to count while you play is technically a disadvantage, it's also less necessary because you only have one line to worry about at a time as a flute player. One advantage to counting as a pianist is the ability to discover the relationship between the lines.
But, but, but will this create a "metronome" pianist and they loose their creativity. I am an adult amateur piano hobbyist. As an adult, how do you do this and keep your creativity - I can't be a piano player who just plays notes?
It can! But, if a pianist cannot do this, chances are, they are actually leaving essential musicality on the table. With that said, I did release a video a while back which talks about how to use counting in a more musical way. Perhaps you might find it inspiring! ruclips.net/video/7vBrso0n0pQ/видео.html
What is it about time signatures that you feel you are missing? Also, sometimes counting doesn't work (particularly on things that aren't measured evenly or on poly rhythms). I was thinking of making another counting video soon to clarify some things.
I don't really know what they mean except for the common signatures like 4:4 and 2:4. As for counting, I gave up on it. I find it easier to listen to the piece and try to imitate it till it sounds right.
@@MM-wd6ud When I get a chance, I intend to do an updated counting video and I will focus a bit more on time signatures and explain simple vs compound meter (and how to count). Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Than you. Also I wanted to mention how impressed I was by your ability to play a piece perfectly when you hadn't played it since college. If I stop playing a piece for even a week, muscle memory deterioration sets in.
@@MM-wd6ud I appreciate that. However, I put a ridiculous amount of time learning those pieces back in college, and they are probably unforgettable at this point. When it comes to new pieces I am currently working on, I do forget them very quickly if I stop practicing.
Oh no, you aren't counting towards the beat. Try 1// and 2], and 3], and 4], and 1]. This articulates the pulse. As Brian Brown, a student of Oscar Peterson's, once told me: " pulse is like a giant walking in the hallway, raising his foot before he puts it down on the beat." Same with 16th notes: count towards the beat. 1// ta-ta-ta-2], tatata3], tatata4], tatata1]. Children are often taught to count the way it's printed which is misleading and due to music typography limitations of the 18th century. Count aurally, not visually. And it isn't mathematics. Try a Bach invention like 13 to hear how counting this way makes the music come alive. Counting mathematically kills the dance. Leonard Bernstein is of this opinion too. There's a video on RUclips where he discusses that it's in between the notes that counts and he goes on to count and 2, and 3... You are right that counting out loud is very important when one practices. Jean-Paul Sevilla--- Angela Hewitt's mentor and teacher--- insisted upon this in lessons along with naming the notes as one practices and transposing. Counting out loud helps with transposition by focusing on the essential components of echo and rhythm in music, not visual representations that turn musicians into musical mimes are abstract mathematicians. The proportions do matter but not as math, as a dance. Cheers from Ottawa Canada.
I appreciate your thoughts here. For what it's worth, I do believe you can use pretty much any syllables and still "count towards the beat". That has more to do with basic musical skills and instincts than the syllables one chooses to use. Thanks for sharing!
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Why didn't my piano tell me this when I was first learning how to read music? she told me to use the metronome but I always found the metronome tended to scramble my brain while trying to listen to the notes and that metronome beat at the same time. This was great help!!
I had a similar experience. Even though all of my teachers were great, only one of them insisted on learning how to count out loud. I eventually realized that counting out loud is helpful early in the learning process and leads to success with the metronome later on.
As a piano teacher for many years, I was delighted to encounter this informative online lesson on the aspect of rhythmic learning I am passionate about (i.e. counting out loud)
I keep saying to my students that until neurosurgeons can perfect a magical brain ultrasound (!), I have no way of finding out what is happening in their heads!
I may, myself, use slightly different counting syllables, but I think the basic principles are the same; and you do demonstrate some very useful versions when it comes to counting sections of music containing polyrhythms. In addition to the more mathematical approach, I also use fun lyrics and rhymes to assist in more complicated issues, especially when it comes to ornamentation.
There are, of course, loads of other auxiliary exercises that link in and assist the development of rhythm in a piece of music you are learning, and I think you have made reference to some of these
when outlining your excellent approach. I just hope that the 'non-believers' will be converted; it all makes great sense. Thank you for your work and very beneficial ideas!
Thank you for your great comment! Let’s convert the nonbelievers!
Very helpful. My piano teacher never taught me how to count this way. thank you.
Excellent teaching...thank u...subscribed😊
Thanks for subbing! I am glad you find this helpful!
@@FlexLessons more than helpful! And absolutely right! Thank you!
truth... ] counting out loud and relaxed breathing with good body alignment can allow you to juggle singing on top of the puzzle.
Crystal clear. I see very popular teachers on RUclips who don't push this. My teacher totally puts rhythm first. It's rhythmic fluency, musicality, expressive intention!
I have had some really good teachers who still didn't push this. However, I had ONE teacher who did, and it changed my life!
@@FlexLessons that is very validating to hear coming from you. I'm pretty sure they skip it because people need to relax, let go, get into a flow state. It's very hard to coach. I've been a job and a half to coach. But it's the whole enchilada. Without it, you're typing.
Brilliant. Crystal clear. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I’ve found that almost all students strongly dislike counting out loud, especially younger ones. How do you overcome this difficulty and make the process more pleasant? Or convince students that borderline refuse to count.
I’ve also found that counting all the subdivisions is very necessary for beginning stages of learning since the longer values tend to get rushed. So totally agree.
It’s just not optional in my studio. Every student learns to count. I randomly quiz them all the time, haha. I am insanely persistent. I believe that is they key. A student who is resistant to the idea will not invest in it if it seems like it is never called upon, so I call upon it very often. Also, success feels good to all students, and counting is often the fastest path to success in a variety of situations, and so I always work to help students experience that sense of success often. I am totally with you on the use of subdivision.
@@FlexLessons i wish i knew about this. I think I gave up on counting out because it makes me lose track of where I am at on the sheet. I should have tried harder
It’s never too late. I’ll be putting out a lot of examples of different ways to use counting in the future.
@FlexLessons I agree fully... I never used to be able to count out loud (so wasn't willing either!)... been learning 3 years and my new teacher (about 12 weeks now) insisted I count out loud...no option not to!!! I am so glad as I can do so comfortably and oh the benefits... it really is essential and makes learning a new piece easier in the long run!... I subscribed 😊
I had a wonderful teacher when I was first at college, and he tried to get me to count out loud but didn’t insist upon it…so I didn’t. Someone really needed to make me!!!
Thank you very much. I don’t even know what the counting is but I hear you emphasize on , I got curious since then I watched many video on you tube about counting and rhythm,
I am glad to hear that you are curious about it now. Do you still have questions about it?
Great Video, hopefully there will be more young musicians growing up that build good habits!
Rhythm was absolutely my weakest skill which became blatantly obvious when I entered Conservatory.... For anyone looking to pursue music full time whether as a hobbyist or full time musician, it is pivotal you count and the earlier in your studies or age you introduce this habit the more dividends will be paid out in the long term. The metronome is not enough, many people use the metronome almost on autopilot and still go out of time, even when using the metronome you should count!
Counting is flexible, like you've mentioned in another video you can count with a sharp direct speaking inflection or count while singing the dynamics in the phrase by going up and down in volume on certain numbers with short breathe pauses in-between. It's absolutely better to have a more rigid absolute sense of rhythm and loosen up later in comparison to having a rubato filled performance with no pulse and trying to clean up the rhythm afterwards.
I would say a lot of people also have a fear that playing so strict and in time isn't "musical" when actually the musical image comes across generally better and more "musical" when the beat is
adhered too and not stretched out so much.
I appreciate your comment. It sounds like you have discovered the same sorts of things that I have!
Well, I'm glad I watched this! Enormously useful.
Glad it was helpful!
Great lesson!
Excellent video! Firstly clear and concise with appropriate use of technology that does NOT interfere with the message! Also a great explanation and now something I will incorporate into all my practice. More please!
Thanks for your comment and compliment! I will definitely keep this type of content going.
I am questioning myself if I am the only person who have been struggling learning and counting rhythms using the numbers system
1 2 3 4 | 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 | 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4 e and a | 1 and 2 3 4 e and a |
I found myself these system is doesn't work for me even though I tried practicing and adapting to it.
This system is confusing form me because in this video you showed two pieces with different counting methods
In the Polonaise, you count the rhythm, 1 e and a 2 e and a...
In the Arabesque, you count the rhythm 1 and 2 and....
like counting rhythms is depending on situation or a piece which makes confusing to me like there is no exact formula to follow unlike on other rhythm counting systems like the Kodaly rhythm syllables which makes me easy to understand.
4/4 Ta Ta Ta Ta | Ta Ta Ti Ti Ta |
I am question myself if I am stupid because in the midst of the popularity of the number rhythm counting system and most musicians and music learners could get this and find this easy, then why I can't do it.
Damn dude you're Hella good teacher!! Thank you.
You are most welcome!
Really good stuff. This is a weak area for me. Thanks.
So important! Thank you. 🙏
I really enjoyed this video and your teaching style. I have been playing piano since my teens and now in my 30s. I learned the basics from a friend’s mother and kind of taught myself over the years. While I can play advanced pieces, I run into a number of problems when the rhythms become very complex. I don’t feel like I properly developed fingering technique and counting of some of the more challenging rhythms. Can you please put together videos that address improving fingering choice & technique? That’d be greatly appreciated.
I am glad you enjoyed this video! In the future, I intend to cover things like fingering technique. However, I will admit that this can be highly preferential from pianist to pianist.
Outstanding lesson more like a master class. Exactly what I need. Kudos!
Glad this was helpful to you!
You are a wonderful pianist. Lovely touch. Thanks for the tip--rhythm is my weakness.
Thank you for saying that. I will be posting quite a bit of rhythm related content in the not too distant future :)
Thank you so much, this really has helped me a great deal!
I'm so glad!
Great video! True for all instruments.
This is a very helpful video but many people (including me) struggle to count while playing in which they probably get confused trying to count and play at the same time even knowing about all the sub-divided notes etc. For example, when I try to play the 8th notes I end up counting them individually like 1 2 3 4 instead of 1 and 2 and. Do you know how to overcome these problems?
This sort of thing almost always comes down to speed. There is some tempo where you will be successful, you just have to be very intentional. At a certain point, you cross a tempo threshold and your playing is more habitual as opposed to intentional, so its important to practice under that threshold. You may also want to work on small bits of material at once. Basically, the way to overcome the problem is to not give yourself too much to handle at once, and you can control that through reducing the amount of material, lowering the tempo, or splitting the hands up.
interesting Joseph, I had never counted like this. Thank you for the explanation! Really beautiful !
This is THE WAY to count, in my opinion. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for the video. My only issue with counting is that I keep going up...7+, 8+ and then throw myself off so I stopped. Maybe I'll just count like this 1+, 1+, 1+ or 1 e + a, 1 e + a and skip going up the measure.
That happens a lot of folks, especially in the beginning. Usually it means you need to slow down so you can be more present. I'd definitely suggest sticking with the counting that goes up in each measure if you can.
@@FlexLessons Thank you so much for the encouragement.
Thank you for this, excellent lesson.
You're very welcome!
Great video! Once I can play slowly and counting without effort should I speed up keeping on playing counting? Thanks!
Good question! I suggest using counting to get the timing of the piece set, and then practice with no counting at some point and make sure the piece sounds the same with or with counting, even as you approach performance tempo.
thanks for the video, i found it very useful. i have one question, when you count, when do you take time to breath? i find it difficult to hold the breath and count 1e+a through ... am i doing something wrong?
I try to make my syllables very short so that they are clear and articulate without wasting breath. However, it's totally reasonable to breathe as needed! Also, I generally only subdivide when I have to work something out or need clarity on a passage. Otherwise, I count a larger unit which gives me plenty of time to breathe. I hope that helps!
How do i move to main pulse. I can still hear the sub-div in my head. Some beats have 8-9 notes in the right hand. Or odd hanging notes like 1ee +aaa . I don't know how people deal with these with out counting. I'm kind of the opposite of what you say. I'm trapped in the subdivisions. ...... I know the answer... practice .
It depends on the piece. Provided there is nothing irregular, you can count every other note, and then groups of 4, and ultimately larger groups. I always move through various stages of subdivision in the learning process.
I'm learning to dance, how do I recognise time signatures and beats in songs where I don't have access to the sheet music? Is that possible? Should I be learning the bpm/sheet music on any classical music I'm dancing to? I'd love a video where you listen to random songs and can identify the beats and time signature just from listening and explaining how you did it
That's a pretty cool idea! If you aren't super experienced with classical music, you can still typically figure out if a piece is in 2, 3, or 4 just from listening to where the strong beats are. It might be helpful to know this information about what you are dancing to, especially if you can't hear it.
@@FlexLessons thanks for the reply! By the strong beat, is that one that's usually louder or held longer than the others? Do you have an example?
Louder or emphasized is probably one way of describing it. I would imagine that for dancing, the main thing is to determine if the piece is duple or triple meter. You can do that by counting in 2, 3, or 4 to the pulse until you figure out which of those makes sense with the music, and then situating your movements accordingly. For example, if you listened to a Waltz or Mazurka, you would quickly figure out that these are in triple meter. I hope that helps! @@kozstandsya1494
@@FlexLessons Thanks for that! I really appreciate it! You could probably incorporate this into your lessons by testing your students to count the pulse (while listening instead of playing) without sheet music in front of them, to solidify that they know it. I'll definitely test myself with this, but I think you've helped me finally understand:)
I am so glad! Great idea.@@kozstandsya1494
Awesome video, I have been practicing for about 17 to 18 months and only today I started counting out aloud.
1. It is very hard.
2. I find myself signing while counting, rather than counting to a metronomic ryhthm. Is this normal?
It is hard at first! The key is to go super slow and focus on the counting as a first priority. You want to think of the counting as the underlying structure and you sort of "wrap your piece" around it. It's a totally different way of thinking and it will transform you as a musician.
What do you mean by signing?
@@FlexLessons I mean I start singing 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + instead of counting.
Also, by doing this I feel like a complete beginner haha will it ever get better?
It is very challenging.
Singing is helpful! As long as you are singing or speaking the numbers, you are good! @@pianopressofficial
I am questioning myself if I am the only person who have been struggling learning and counting rhythms using the numbers system
1 2 3 4 | 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 | 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4 e and a | 1 and 2 3 4 e and a |
I found myself these system is doesn't work for me even though I tried practicing and adapting to it.
Is like I have to be good in math to count rhythms.
Is like I have to count rhythms like this
1 + 2 + 3 √4π and use phythagorean theorem and trigonometric functions like and sine and cosine to process rhythms in a musical piece.
This system is confusing form me because in this video you showed two pieces with different counting methods
In the Polonaise, you count the rhythm, 1 e and a 2 e and a...
In the Arabesque, you count the rhythm 1 and 2 and....
like counting rhythms is depending on situation or a piece which makes confusing to me like there is no exact formula to follow unlike on other rhythm counting systems like the Kodaly rhythm syllables which makes me easy to understand.
4/4 Ta Ta Ta Ta | Ta Ta Ti Ti Ta |
I feel I am stupid because in the midst of the popularity of the number rhythm counting system and most musicians and music learners could get this and find this easy, then why I can't do it. Is there is something wrong with me? Maybe I am not good in math to process rhythms or Maybe I have no rhythm at all
I really need your help
That's All Thanks.
I totally understand your frustration. MANY students share your frustration. It really is similar to math. Saying the right numbers in the right situation is only half the battle...you then have to make sure that you speak consistently. However, if you go through this process, it will completely change how you learn music (and how fast) and it will significantly improve your sight reading. Solving for the things that you are confused about will make all the difference! In my video, I showed you how you can use different syllables for different ends. However, both of those pieces that you mentioned can be counted using the quarter, 8th, or 16th. If you would like to chat with me about this, feel free to visit my site (www.flexlessons.com). On the bottom right corner of the screen, there is a little chat button where you can communicate with me and I can assist you further. Thanks for your comment! I am sure many others will appreciate it.
@@FlexLessons I really appreciate your wonderful feedback and I thanked it that it somewhat decreases my frustration on this topic. I would like to thank also for acknowledging my frustration on this.
I have a question, you talk about the importance of counting out loud while sight reading, then how about the pitch. What if I get it the rhythms right but I didn't some of the pitches or notes right because of too much focusing on rhythms?
I ask this because it seems that this was easy for you but in reality, reading sheet music is hard because we piano players are not like drummers who only read rhythm. We also read the pitches in the score so reading and that is make reading music is so difficult and we need to multi task them all at once while playing. Aside from that, reading sheet music on the piano is difficult as we know that the treble and bass clef have different note labels so we need to consider also these things not only the rhythm.
Great questions. In most sight reading situations, the rhythm is the priority over the pitches. I'm not saying that it's okay to get all of the notes wrong, but you can always leave notes out. When you play is prioritized over what you play. Think of the pulse as a series of containers for you to "place pitches in". The rhythm holds the underlying structure of the piece...it is absolutely core to understanding a piece of music. In almost all cases where a pianist cannot "multitask", the pianist is simply playing too fast for the situation. To build this skill up, sometimes you must go crazy slow (and subdivide accordingly). @@maximuswilliam318
@@FlexLessons Okay! I did it the counting out loud method in my practice right after you replied to me in the comment section. Guess what! It still doesn't work for me and the worst thing is, since I know already the notes in my piece, it made me hit the wrong notes and make mistakes while practicing it again. In short counting out loud, made me practice the mistakes rather to avoid mistakes and develop security in playing.
Aside from this, it makes me stop the rhythmic flow and break the groove because when I am counting, I have to pay attention in saying the right numbers.
For example you have a measures in 4/4 time signature, you have to say it like this | 1 and 2 3 4 e and a | 1 and 2 and 3 4 |
not | 1 and 2 1 2 e and a | 1 and 2 and 1 and 2
because it depends on the time signatures and it must be | 1 2 3 4 | not | 1 2 1 1 | or something in which there is a tendency for me to sound gibberish, inconsistent or like the sound of trying hard to pronounce tongue twister sentences.
Lastly, it made my feeling of rhythm robotic and unmusical because as I said you have to think in numbers instead of feeling the groove which I never experience in the Kodaly rhythm syllables which made rhythm very easy for me to understand
Ex. Ta Ta Ti Ti Tiki Tiki | Ti Ti Ta-a | which for me, even though there is no pitches, it still sounds groovy and musical.
Sorry if I said this due go my frustrations in this rhythm counting system because it doesn't really work fo me but I thank also for your wonderful feedbacks.
I have a question, do you also teach ear training and improvisation?
or it is more of a sheet music and memorization classical approach?
That's all Thanks, Keep up the good work
It’s not something you can try briefly and decide that it doesn’t work. You would have to live with it and invest in it for a while. However, it sounds like you already have a working system…no need to change it if you have no issues dealing with rhythm and pulse. To answer your other questions, at this time, I do not teach ear training and improv. Thanks for the comment! @@maximuswilliam318
what if the entire song is on eight notes but the few bars at the last are on sixteenth notes
In that case, I would suggest counting 16ths on just that part to learn it, and then switch to 8ths, and then ultimately quarters if the piece goes faster than 60 bpm (or so) = quarter. You can always count 8ths in the parts that have 8ths, and 16ths in the parts that have 16ths, once you have worked out your rhythm.
@@FlexLessonsthanks man you just saved me❤
Btw this video is really gold I've watched 10-15 videos around this topic but yours is the most accurate and easy to understand..
Thanks again
You are welcome! I am so glad this is helpful to you! More people need to really invest in this skill. @@ameer6168
Good teaching! But you got me lost when you said that "our smallest note value is 8th note." I thought it should be 16th note. I am just starting to learn, so please forgive me if I sound dumb here.
No worries! When I said that, I was talking about how to count the minuet in G major. In this piece, the smallest note value is the 8th (there are no 16ths in this piece...remember that 16ths have a double beam or double flag). With this in mind, we want to count everything using the 8th note so as to make all the rhythms correct and proportional. Once you do this, you can "zoom out" and count the quarter instead. I hope that helps!
@@FlexLessons Thanks. You explained it to my level.
GREAT VIDEO! If you're not willing to learn to count out loud, please find another teacher!
Agreed! It is a non-negotiable in my studio.
All good but for a flute player like me all this is impossible.
That is true. However, you can still tap or clap your rhythms before hand. While not being able to count while you play is technically a disadvantage, it's also less necessary because you only have one line to worry about at a time as a flute player. One advantage to counting as a pianist is the ability to discover the relationship between the lines.
But, but, but will this create a "metronome" pianist and they loose their creativity. I am an adult amateur piano hobbyist. As an adult, how do you do this and keep your creativity - I can't be a piano player who just plays notes?
It can! But, if a pianist cannot do this, chances are, they are actually leaving essential musicality on the table. With that said, I did release a video a while back which talks about how to use counting in a more musical way. Perhaps you might find it inspiring! ruclips.net/video/7vBrso0n0pQ/видео.html
When one counts, they are not listening, the sound produced is ignored as a result. A rhythm in the body similar to dance is more effective.
My take: counting a complicated piece is damn near impossible. I wish you had explained time signatures a little bit better.
What is it about time signatures that you feel you are missing? Also, sometimes counting doesn't work (particularly on things that aren't measured evenly or on poly rhythms). I was thinking of making another counting video soon to clarify some things.
I don't really know what they mean except for the common signatures like 4:4 and 2:4. As for counting, I gave up on it. I find it easier to listen to the piece and try to imitate it till it sounds right.
@@MM-wd6ud When I get a chance, I intend to do an updated counting video and I will focus a bit more on time signatures and explain simple vs compound meter (and how to count). Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Than you. Also I wanted to mention how impressed I was by your ability to play a piece perfectly when you hadn't played it since college. If I stop playing a piece for even a week, muscle memory deterioration sets in.
@@MM-wd6ud I appreciate that. However, I put a ridiculous amount of time learning those pieces back in college, and they are probably unforgettable at this point. When it comes to new pieces I am currently working on, I do forget them very quickly if I stop practicing.
Oh no, you aren't counting towards the beat. Try 1// and 2], and 3], and 4], and 1]. This articulates the pulse. As Brian Brown, a student of Oscar Peterson's, once told me: " pulse is like a giant walking in the hallway, raising his foot before he puts it down on the beat." Same with 16th notes: count towards the beat. 1// ta-ta-ta-2], tatata3], tatata4], tatata1]. Children are often taught to count the way it's printed which is misleading and due to music typography limitations of the 18th century. Count aurally, not visually. And it isn't mathematics. Try a Bach invention like 13 to hear how counting this way makes the music come alive. Counting mathematically kills the dance. Leonard Bernstein is of this opinion too. There's a video on RUclips where he discusses that it's in between the notes that counts and he goes on to count and 2, and 3... You are right that counting out loud is very important when one practices. Jean-Paul Sevilla--- Angela Hewitt's mentor and teacher--- insisted upon this in lessons along with naming the notes as one practices and transposing. Counting out loud helps with transposition by focusing on the essential components of echo and rhythm in music, not visual representations that turn musicians into musical mimes are abstract mathematicians. The proportions do matter but not as math, as a dance. Cheers from Ottawa Canada.
I appreciate your thoughts here. For what it's worth, I do believe you can use pretty much any syllables and still "count towards the beat". That has more to do with basic musical skills and instincts than the syllables one chooses to use. Thanks for sharing!
Why spend 5 minutes explaining why count? Surely people watching your video what to learn to count, just let the video speak for itself!
Believe it or not, this is a pretty misunderstood concept and so I felt an introduction was necessary.