Nikon Z9…is it CHEATING???
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The Nikon Z9 has a mode that allows you to shoot 120 Frames Per Second Small Jpegs...but is it cheating? Let's take a closer look at some of the images I captured to help decide. Each JPEG file is around 3.6 megabytes, it's small, but is it good enough to get a 17x22 print from it?
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#FroKnowsPhoto #JaredPolin #NikonZ9
Is it cheating to shoot 120 fps for stills?
Jared, in your opinion is the Z9 better, the same or not as good then the R5/6 regarding the auto Focus?
Not really. I bet when the EOS 650 came out there were people asking if AF was cheating too. 🤷♂️
Nope, and even if it “was”, so what?
Probably the same oldies who think shooting digitally or using auto-focus is cheating.
I don't think it is, just shows the tech is getting better and better on the cameras.
I'm curious...Why would you ever use this burst mode vs shooting 8K video and pulling frame grabs that will be at least as big? You say it's better than pulling stills, but In video, you can shoot in log which gives you more latitude for grading than a baked in jpg. You can grade the shots in your NLE before exporting the frame grab. You won't ever have a buffer issue as you will with shooting stills, and, you have a video file too just in case that can be helpful down the road even if you initially think you only need stills for a project.
You know the world is falling apart when the raw master is shooting jpeg.
He even cropped a few videos ago. Definitely end times.
"Is it cheating" The fact that Photographers (comments not Jared) are still asking this in 2022 is mind blowing.
That's like saying "Is traveling 90 mph in a car cheating because you didn't raise a horse and build your own Wagon to travel 15 Miles a day"
Anyone who asks this a gatekeeper and should never under any circumstance be taken seriously.
I was actually pretty impressed with how little distortion there was on the ball
And Nikon colors are so beautiful, you dont need to edit those jpegs as much
“Spray and pray” and shooting JPEG all in one video. What a time to be alive.
Very nice work, Jared. A buddy mine is a sports shooter and he snap bridges JPEG‘s to the social media person at the university he shoots for. I think this feature will be great for that because you don’t need huge files for that and he can really catch the moment this way. Also, I appreciate you mentioning that the R6 has great auto focus, not just the R3 and R5 that often get all of the attention while the R6 has virtually the same system as the R5.
I could imagine that the ball swings when hit by the racket, even if it has a longer flight phase. This means that the ball may not be round in the flight phase. But whether rolling shutter or not, completely negligible. great video
120fps stills IS cheating....just like digital is cheating over film like 35mm is cheating over glass plates is cheating over daguerreotypes.
Any time there's a leap in tech, the "old guard" will dismiss it as being too easy, too much 'dumbing down,' or cheating, just because they had to put in more effort. It's a petty and selfish argument that's made about any sort of tech advancement.
In my day we didn't have computers and the internet to tell people that they were a bunch of babies that have it easier than we ever did! We had to harass them for having better tools face to face! In the snow! Uphill, both ways! And we did it while singing patriotic songs about Hoover while we did it!
Photography in general is cheating over painting! And acrylic paints are cheating over oils! And oil paint is a cheat over egg tempera. And getting any of them in a squeeze tube is a cheat over grinding one's own pigments and mixing them in whichever medium in a bowl! And all of that are cheats over scrawling on a cave wall with some leftover firewood.
Looking at the world with our own eyes is cheating 🤣
I don’t see it as cheating, but I do see it being a double edged sword. It makes it easier to capture that “perfect” moment but you are sacrificing some other stuff to get there. Personally, I think it is more of a headliner gimmick that I would probably use very little, but is perhaps useful for say sports photographers who don’t need large files and instead something they can send off quickly.
@@trekkeruss I agree. Pro sports photographers today need to shoot fast to catch the "decisive moment" AND be able to upload those files quickly to their editors for posting to the web. They are a key target market for the Z9 and those 3MB JPEG files at 120 FPS fit those needs perfectly.
I like how this is about photography and not about the Z9. Great content 😎👍
When I switched from film to Digital back in the day, everyone said digital is cheating. Go figure.
Understand that the baseball will deform and deflect quite a bit due to compressions and rebound of the ball. It is a flexible system and under this sort of impact load it will oscillate in shape. I have numerically modeled this sort of thing for engineering projects for a large sporting goods manufacturer.
Yes.
People just don't like how tech can make your job easier, until they own the tech.
hey mr polin my photo teacher played one of your videos and I proceeded to say your intro to a T and everyone kinda looked at me. but it was cool
winning!!! which video was it?
@@froknowsphoto ill try to find it real quick
@@froknowsphoto The Secret "MATH" of Photography | How to set Shutter Speed, Aperture, ISO (Photography Hack) it was pretty helpful
Jared, have you thought about doing a video on high quality home printers? I'd like to see that. Kudos! Great shots, great content! I learn so much from you!
On film, 40 years ago, I ONCE captured the moment slighly after the bat hit the ball. Unforetable for me. (This ain't cheating! I would have gladly given up the priviledge of buying and developing 400 rolls of film to get that shot which, coincidentally, did NOT affect the game or a penant race-totally insignificant to the actual participants and fans.)
I’m getting the Z9, setting it to Meow, and shooting 120 fps with the volume set to 11.
just don't do it on mating season.
@@wirawijoga7006 🏃♂️ 🐈 🐈⬛ 🐈⬛ 🐈 🐈⬛ 🐈
🤣👍
Good video. Thank you for your hard work JP. Very clear and precise. I think the AF will get better with a few firmware tweaks here and there. Still very good.
It's nice to see you giving well deserved props to Jared👍.
As for using silent mode...you can simply plug in a set of earbuds. Only you will then hear the sound.
Should be great to pair bluetooth headphones. :-) I would love it.
Which is great when you have to call a paramedic or firefighter to come unravel you from the twisted cords around your wrists!
Yes, that's hyperbolic, but I move my cameras WAY too much when I'm shooting to want to deal with earbuds plugged in or even a dongle for a wireless pair.
It's not cheating. That's like saying any advancement in photography was cheating. Do we want to brag about mastering the tools we have or do we want to get the best shot? Certainly, there is something to be said about the joy of finding the shot and the process of achieving it. But if you want something done and your livelihood is on the line, use the tech you got...
@@secoTheSonicFan 6:44 he asked the question. I'm adding to the conversation.
This reminds me of some pple comparing digital not as gd as film. More megapixel in film resolution. If not using manual mode, U r lik a half photograher or 1/4 photographer.
Looks like that first batter shot was just after hitting the bat, not before, catching the compression distortion of the ball off the bat.
The Arctic Pro Luster is my go to. The 17x25 paper is nice because the image is just a bit bigger.
Hard to know you are shooting? Is there no shutter button? Must be a pain to have a black out free viewfinder and silent shutter.
You’ve never shot with one of these have you.
You mentioned getting lucky. Years ago shooting a Pennsbury-Council Rock softball game with a Minolta X-GM w/MD-1 motor drive I caught a single shot of the softball just as it hit the batters elbow. I’d probably over use the 120fps feature now if i had it…lol. But it has its place for sure. It wouldn’t be the deciding factor in selecting a camera though at least for me.
1999 for me CR
120 fps is good to have , never know when that science experiment or once in a lifetime flicker of an event occurs.
Use the tools at your disposal to make your photography next level. I wouldn't shoot at 120fps myself but if it helps you get the photo(s) you need than do it.
For those shooting wildlife it’s awesome for birds in flight to get additional wing positions. Here’s a snowy owl in flight video ruclips.net/video/aDX3rC7-nnw/видео.html
Speaking of what happens to a ball when making contact with a bat, I'll relate this short story: When I was in grad school at Purdue in the '70's, Scott Dierking was the RB for the Boilermakers (after Purdue, he had a decent career with the Jets). In a pick-up softball game, Dierking came to bat. I've never seen a softball hit so hard or so far. When the ball was finally retrieved, it was split open, ripped apart at the seams. So, a hardball can be compressed (and a softball can suffer far worse) during contact with a bat...
Well said, RAW and Straight...
Have the Z9 since 23.12. and itz my best Nikon ever - since Decades and all Bodys.
Your lucky to shoot with all 3 Systems.
I did this 45 Years ago with Canon Nikon Minolta Olympus - it was amaizing different.
The first Zoom on the Market - the first Winder out....all Sensations...
The Sony might be better, i have only Sony Video Cams and im impressed since Decades but thats for Video !
Canon has Super Lenses and great Bodies.
Im happy with the Z9
And i like Jarred, cos what he says is also my Opinion, so itz always inspireing to see him
I do like the Speech about the RED and cut out Frames done since long time .....
Nuff Vibe....
Even BBC Wildlife Photographer of the Year doesn't print bigger than what you did, so its pretty amazing you can get a useable image at that many FPS. In wildlife photography often unrepeatable things happen, so as long as you have enough warning that the cheetah is about to chase something, you could switch to this mode and get the perfect moment! Still not sure though, it would be tempting to use the 20fps, which is still huge frame rate, and hope to get a high MP raw instead.
I really like the tone of the images. Great color. Great moments of capture. That Z9 is a true workhorse.
Hi Jared - slightly off topic, but compressed RAW, yay or nay? Do you use it in general?
That thumbnail of you on the sidewalk with the camera between your legs is my all time favorite….pure science…lol
Me too
It depends on the value of the moment: WS, G7, Bot 9th, 3-2...yea I want 120 fps.
I've gotten the ball just as it it rebounds off the bat, even in film, and both the ball and bat shows distortion of it's shape.
Great video. When are you releasing a "how to set up a Z9. " video ?
What do you mean you don't know if you are shooting or not? Don't you need to push the shutter release button to shoot? Unless your finger and your head is disconnected, you will know that you are shooting. It's like driving a car and saying you don't know if you are pushing the gas pedal.
Knock knock, whose there, Jared, Jared who, Jared who always Shoots RAW and sometimes JPEG 🤣🤣🤣 come on it's funny 🤗
I’ll thumbs up the comment. It made me smile 😆
Oddly enough, horseracing has always used high speed (not sure of the speed) shots at the wire. in this case, the quality of the photo wasn't the issue, the accuracy was. Point being: high spped photography (as high as you could get at whenever was the time) has always been essential to sports (since there where cameras at any rate). Faster has always been better in this venue.
There's a guy who reviewed a lens that was custom made for photo finishes in horse races. It was a 400MM f/2 and it was a beast! It was made back in the days before digital but was adapted to a Canon EF mount. I can't recall the reviewer's name but he has an accent and it's not Matt Granger.
I looked it up and it was Christopher Frost. The lens was 22 pounds!
You can set in silent and have lines on both sides indicating you are shooting
What? No cat sound for 120fps? That would sound awesome!
Nice! There is a visual cue that you can turn on in silent mode to let you know it is is shooting. At 120fps I'm sure it just stays on but at least you know.
???? It just says 120 top and bottom right remaining. Those are the only visuals
Custom setting D13 will show you visually that you are taking a photo in silent mode but it doesn't work at 120FPS. Weird. It could at least turn on to let you know the shutter is depressed. At 20fps it works fine and aligns with the shutter sound. Interesting.
Does it really matter? When someone looks at the photo, are they really thinking about the camera settings? Is it a photo that makes you appreciate the moment or not? THAT is the only important question.
Perfect use case here. Can't wait to see the review of the 100-400
It's fine, most of these photo will be shared on social medias, wedsides and newspapers anyway, the resolusion doesn't matter.
Hey Jared... my big question is, Can you export those frames into a video? because that would be cool for hybrid wedding photographers.
I couldn't imagine culling that many shots just for a few seconds. When I hit air shows, I'm shooting 1500-2500 shots a day on a D500 jpg only.
Great work, was really interesting
Cheating is when some mobile phones paste a photoshopped moon into your night shots lol
Hi Jared ,have you heard about the Sony sensor inside the Z 9 ?
Jeez, finally some other brand other than Olympus (that I know of) discovers the miracle of retractable lens hoods.
It's so nice to not have to reverse your lens hood every time you switch lenses and place them in your bag.
Nikon were doing this on some lenses years ago...
I’m
Not following.
That isn’t a retractable lens hood on the 100-400. It’s reversed and Jared was pulling the lens zoom by hand which looked like it was the lens hood being retractable.
Unless you’re of course joking and it went over my head….
The Nikon 300mm AF-S F/4 D has a retractable hood. I have the Japanese "white" version of it. Pull the hood out and turn to lock.
@@cryhavoc38 180mm f2.8D has similar
Jared, have you used CaptureOne?
Skittles is the best one!
I guess eventually high speed video (say =>8K?) will replace still photography when it comes to shooting action, and sport photographers will technically become videographers?
I do believe a robot chimpanzee can now replace Jared.... I don't think I'm hiring you anymore Jared.... Alfred!!! GET ME a robot chimpanzee!!!
I'm going to tell you how to shoot action in low light situation.
Get fast aperture lens, send it to maximum open, bump your ISO high and bump your shutter speed )))
People who know how to set up the camera for correct image output don't have any problems with JPEG output. It saves a lot of unnecessary editing and post processing time.
Such a lane dead argument that went out 10 years ago.
@@froknowsphoto Of course, this is the expected answer for someone who is trying to sell Lightroom Presets.
Hey Jared nice video. I want to ask you why you are underexposing the images as I saw from the EVF. Thanks in advance!
Whatever you saw would have been unintentional. Plus it’s vari aperture lens which messes with exposure
Will you be a doing a settings tutorial video?
Also, if a friggin' small JPG looked fine at 11x17 then that 24MP R3 photo should look just fine at 48 x 72. I'd still like to see a test of it though.
@Epic Story And that's why I keep bugging Fro to take the Pepsi Challenge on this. He's got sponsors. Maybe he can talk Printique into making him a big print like that from the R3.
Here's the thing: I've actually printed 24x36 with a 22MP camera, specifically the 5D Mark III, and it looked just fine. I hadn't upscaled it or anything of the sort but it still looked just fine. Most people aren't going to print much bigger than that, but it *IS* an option from time to time so I want to know at what point we're breaking the ability of the available MP to deliver the goods. The reason I want to know is because they continue to offer 20MP options on high end cameras and I want to know if I have to forgo those options in favor of more MP in case I happen to want to print something that large. TL;DR, I want to know my options here.
@@swistedfilms 72" for 6000px on the long edge, is only 83.33ppi. We don't necessarily need 300ppi like the old days and maybe 120ppi might appear similar to 300ppi of old? If so, you'd get 50" x 33.33" in very nice quality, I'd imagine. Maybe there's a professional digital printer reading this thread who could chime in and advise on how low the res can be these days and still look good. It's years since I was involved in printing anything.
@@cooloox that's why I'm hoping that Fro can get a sponsor to settle this once and for all. I know that prints that size are rare, but that isn't the point. I've done prints at 24 x 36 with 22 MP from the 5D Mark III and it looked fine. But would that same shot look better had I used my 5DSR? I want answers, and I know Fro probably wants those answers too.
You need 4x the pixels to double your linear resolution. So all else being optimal a 24mp photo would only be able to be printed about 50% larger than an 11mp photo.
@@TechnoBabble okay so about a 16 x 24 for a 24MP photo. But I've printed at 24 x 36 with a 22MP photo and it looked fine. So was I not seeing the imperfections on it or was I just viewing it at a sufficient distance? I want answers and we need to test this.
I per order mine from Allens camera in late oct still no Z9 suxs
Jared, how much do you think the Af will improve with firmware? They seem to have the hardware horsepower to achieve the focusing capabilities that rival Sony and Canon, but they may be still lagging a bit in the firmware to fine tune the unit and continue developing further.
Jared are you sure this video was shot on the R5? it looks different than past videos and much better. what had changed?
Interesting video and amazing technology even though it's not quite perfect AF.
I'd love to know on the R3, what CASE do you use if any to fine tune the 'stickiness' and tracking of the AF?
Either 1 or whichever one I need at the time.
But mostly 1
Could be the ball is not 100% round because it's flying at high speed and is deforming.
*shrug*
But when you shoot 120 fps w jpegs, do you change your shirt first? Its good to be so open minded.
Dude!!!! are you gonna review the Panasonic GH6 or you don't with the sonic peeps?
May be the biggest cheat is the first I-phone… almost anybody can take great pictures from their paquet phone!
Cool! 120 fps would be handy sometimes
hi jared, thanks for the video. btw, are you have tried new firmware of the z6 and z7 series ?
Wrong shirt for the video but the shirt still looks good
Jared, in your opinion is the Z9 better, the same or not as good then the R5/6 regarding the auto Focus?
Z9 is close.
This Z9 R5 and R6(no longer have this one) owner thinks the Z9 is better. Although it’s not perfect and there are some areas I hope improve.
@@ryanb8736 thank u
The ball can be warped getting hit and coming off the bat. I get that with a shutter.
After watching tons of your reviews! I have decided to get a sony a7 2 as my first mirrorless camera and invest most of my budget into GLASS, GLASS, GLASS...Thank you for packing your channel with so much great content.
120fps with AF, it's still impressive.
Looking forward to the 100-400 video!
lol your T-shirt reads you shoot RAW but you show us JPEG images ?
I came here to learn about the z9 not to hear about filter packs….
If this cheating, what about Eye-AF?
If you watch the video before you comment….
@@froknowsphoto Watching the video before comment is also cheating :)
It's not cheating, but maybe makes photography less fun. I don't think anyone will be shooting this way in street photography, for hobby at least
But is it cheating to hit those 11mp JPEGs with Topaz Labs... hehe...
yes .....withe nikon you can shoot Jbg
Olympus OM-1 does 120 fps at 20 megapixels RAW, but their buffer is smaller so it can't hold as many. It's the only mid-priced camera that has a stacked sensor. $2,200 for that and $7,500 fir that insane 150-400mm lens and you're shooting the cover is Sports Illustrated. Do they actually still print that magazine?
And their sensor is the size of a nat
@@froknowsphoto Shouldn't that be gnat as in Gannett?
@@allencrider No
Agree on the Nikon Z9 AF vs Canon. R5 has stickier AF (and I assume R3 is even better), but unlike Z6/7, Z9 AF is plenty good for my purposes. Very happy Nikon has a horse back in the race -- and very much appreciate the camera's other qualities such as shutterless design, dual CFe type B cards (none of this Micky Mouse mixed card business or stupidly expensive underperforming cards with limited capacity on a high-frame rate, 8k capable camera), built-in GPS, and insane battery life. Fantastic camera -- does every thing very well or better.
Have both R5 and Z9. Z9 is superior with AF overall, tracking, real “stickiness“ not talking overlay but actual shots in focus , subject recognition (distance and eye af). Only area I’ve found R5 performs over Z9 is it seems to recognize the eye of more species of birds and occasional situations where birds are in dense foliage.
If that's cheating then so is shooting digital because you can check if you got the shot without having to go home and spend a day in a darkroom developing film.
It's a tool to get the job done. If your job is to sit in the dug-out and nail a photo of the batter every time he takes a swing, then you're using the tool that you need to get the job done. If you're shooting olympic diving, and you need to get the shot of the diver breaking the water, and then get that shot off to your media pool so your organisation is the first to market with that image, then your using the tool to get the job done.
Somebody else in the pen with a DSLR who can't even see what they are taking a photo of while they're taking the photo might get jealous, but that was their choice.
In the hands of good photographers it’s awesome.
Just a note: if you do shoot for publication, a preset will get you fired. SOOC images only. You can drop, but that's just about all you can do.
And yeah, people have been getting bat on ball shots since speed graphic days. It just takes good timing.
Is it actually a problem if "anyone" could take a great photo?
Not snarking you.
Printing nikon pics on canon printers lets go
As the Z is a symbol of Russian support for the war in Ukraine, you should send me that Z9 and the Z-Mount lenses so that I can responsibly dispose of them. Thank you for your cooperation.
Z = good?
not in Ukraine lol
People who say it's "cheating" are the same ones that spend an hour editing fake skys in their photos.
This is not cheating my Xwife cheated after 20 years ,now that's cheating! LOL
Think about it, shooting JPEG's is like shooting slide film back in the day.
Not really.
@@froknowsphoto When you shot slide film, which I did for a few decades once you shot the film and sent it in there were no changes.....What's your experience with slide film?
@@MyNorthAmetican40 You can definitely edit a JPEG way more than you could manipulate slide film.
So you’re basically pulling out frames from a movie clip. Sort of cheating.
Talented photographers will always find a way to separate themselves from amateurs. Bringing better tools to the masses will raise the floor and ceiling of amateurs and professionals alike!
Well, the Z9 ain't exactly designed for masses...
@@pierrevilley6675 My intent was that new photography technology in general makes everyone take better photos including pros. A lot of comments here make it sound like pro photographers are getting screwed over because “an amateur could do that”. Plus the tech will trickle down. Maybe in 2030 I’ll be able to afford a camera that can do what the Z9 or A1 or R3 can do
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Time to change the T-shirt to "I shoot 120 FPS"
Good post.
what a clickbait title. Its not about NIKON, but if users cheats by holding the button down to take a burst in order to get the perfect shot.
Oh right it’s not about Nikon as I discuss and show the 120 fps in action and discuss making a print from it. What I clickbate comment.