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@@jayblack8132: In some cases where people are complaining, the scenes are simply asynchronous, though; that's nothing new, and can be frequently observed throughout the entire series. Didn't check to see if that's the case here or not, though.
@@jayblack8132: Like I said, I haven't personally checked whether it's inconsistent myself, but "hand-waving" skips of time where people travel is very common (happens throughout the entire series), and I'm not sure that isn't the case here.
I have undertood you finished watching the entire series on their Patreon channel. So I can write spoiler here. The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
@@Wraiven22bro I saw their Twitter and he looked tall af, he's a true spartan lol, unless pudgey is really short which is okay, but spartan looked over 6 foot 3 tbh lol cuz in 5'8"
Lol I still dont understand why he just kept fighting. I'm mean once everyone was on Drogon he had every opportunity to climb on but he just kept fight and making his way further away. Almost like he wanted to just die there. Lol
@@annjenkins2677It is really stupid and I'm shocked we only got a calm "Jon get on the Dragon now" from Pudgey. The first time I watched it I screamed at the TV "JON WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING?!" And the worst part is that with a bit of editing it could've been fine, we did not need that dramatic stare down between Jon and the Night King.
@@hopemikaelson9223 yeah I can't believe neither one of them were like get the fuck on the dragon. Because that's exactly what I was yelling but I added " you dumb fuck where the fuck are going " Lol
@@716olli716 that's one of the weaknesses of storytelling in seasons 7 and 8... In the early seasons we mostly saw everything happen in real time. No flashbacks, no big time jumps, at least not within the same episode. If someone left a location in episode two, then we'd see them traveling in episode three, that kind of thing. It helped keep everything in the moment.
@@neospock5034yeah, right, that's why we see Cersei and Jaime in KL in literally the first episode and then in Winterfell, like 10 minutes later, eh? 🤣
@@annjenkins2677bad writing excuse considering Sansa and Arya already know how much of an untrustworthy slimeball littlefinger is. No reason for them to fake fight each other when they have a million reasons to execute him as soon as they retook winterfell
The best part of this show in these later seasons is definitely the dragons. Watching the cinematography of the dragons in action is always something to behold. Glad you two are still enjoying yourselves, it makes the reaction enjoyable.
That's what D&D were counting on. Screw the writing, let's make an action flick. After 6 seasons they knew the fans loved those dragons, so they used them to get fan reactions and bring in fans who didn't care about the show or books. They just like action and shit blowing up. It turned into WWE. I agree with Puggy on it was time. It's just how we got there. We lost people throughout this series but 10 stupid things didn't have to happen first. Thoros was one of my favorites and Benjin was a fake Cold Hands for fan reaction, but they were B and C characters. If the show got more popular after killing Drogo and Ned, the could have killed Jorah or Tormund.
@@clownafra6088people screeched for so long how this show was only about "tits & dragons" and then when they give you just tits and dragons everyone complains lol i feel so bad for D&D and what a daunting task it must've been to finish this series only to have all these people shit on their work. Those guys were tireddd you could tell 😆
That would've solved like 80% of the issues in this episode. Specially because they planned this stupid plan at Dragonsone and it was Tyrion's brilliant idea. I guess you could say he didn't really care about sending Jon to his death and didn't expect Danny to go running after him 😂 Ah what the hell, it sucks no matter how you look at it.
@hopemikaelson9223 ehh I kinda liked it even with the obvious flaws.. but like the original plan of Tyrions is so idiotic. Every plan he has failed.. like just fire him at this point. And tyrions first bad idea was leaving Daario in essos. At least he gave Dany good advice.
1:09 *Dany was absolutely raised as a Targaryen.* Just because she grew up in exile doesn't negate that. Her brother drilled it into her, and she heard about her family from other people. That's like saying Theon wasn't raised as Greyjoy because he grew up in Winterfell, and Ned & Robert weren't raised as Stark & Baratheon because they grew up in the Eyrie. When you are from a prominent House, growing up away from home doesn't erase your family heritage and upbringing. You are reminded of it constantly.
@@niccologregorutti Care to elaborate? Especially on Ned. Being part of a family doesn't mean you all have the exact same personality and value everything equally. Ned still subscribed to the Stark values, and Theon was proud of being a Greyjoy, even if there are Ironborn values that he seem to not embrace. Family values and country values don't necessarily overlap. Also you could say the same thing about Yara/Asha, even though she grew up in her home with her family. In the books, she wants to rule the Iron Islands, but her vision is to surrender and make peace with the North, so they can unite and beat the Lannister. She understands that taking over Westeros and taking over the North is folly! Would her father have done the same? No. Does that mean she's not a true Greyjoy or a true Ironborn? Also, no.
Absolutely the BEST explanation of anyone! People will ALWAYS be who they are. It is their choice. And you can have all the best council or help along the way, but in the end, you are who you are.
@@Mic-Mak Aeron,Balon and Asha follow the Ironborn tradition,they pray the drowned god,their way of life is pillaging and ravaging. Theon on the other hand doesn't seem to care about the tradition of the Iron Islands,his pride comes from being part of a noble family and the son of a Great Lord,the fact that his family is the Greyjoy of the Iron Islands doesn't seem to be that important to him until he comes back home. Ned was raised in the Vale,and he is completely different from Rickard,Lyanna,Brandon, and the old Lords of Winterfell,much more ambitious,wild and cruel. On the other hand it's clear the influence that Jon Arryn had on him,Ned is very honourable,honest and chivalrous,even though his real family was much more hotblooded, and wild. Ned resembles more the Arryn than the Starks of the past,except for him praying the old gods and passing the sentence himself
@@JonnyQuest64 Even if not number 1 on your list. she is up there for millions of us. i would also have her as best ever. and every day that goes by makes this more obvious. resonated with the entire world. and to say emilia is an icon is an understatement!
Ah, Beyond the Wall, the episode where they invented teleportation, where they taught the wights to swim and where it was revealed that there's a hardware store beyond the wall.
Isn't Eastwatch a port? Exactly where one would expect to find heavy chains? And wights don't swim, but there's nothing stopping them just trudging along the lake bed - it's not as though they are going to drown.
Teleporting existed before you just had to be rich to use it like varys and littlefinger . By season 7 they developed the technology to teleport people a lot cheaper so everyone could do it. Also really developed the plot armour this season, Thank god as our heroes have got a lot more stupid and that would have got them killed in earlier seasons.
Dany spent the first 5 years of her life in the house of a nobleman in Bravos, or so she believed, because it is vague in the books and it creates a big deal about Danny's identity(but that's another story.) She remembers it as "the house with the red door and the lemontree outside her window". When her protector died and Robert 's reign was established in Westeros, she and Vicerys were kicked out of the house with the red door and they traveled along all the Free Cities, to find allies or hospitality. That's why Vicerys was called "The beggar King". They lived in the streets for 8 years as beggars, hunted by Robert's assassins, or that's what Vicerys believed. He was telling Dany stories about Westeros, Dragons, Kings and knights, but he was abusing her every time he got mad. They were so hungry, that he had to sell his mother's crown, to get money and food and after that he totally snapped. After these 8 years they found hospitality for six months in the house of Illyrio Mopatis and we know the rest. In the books it is not the Iron Throne Daenerys wants. All she wants is to go back to "the house with the Red door and the lemontree outside her window", witch symbolizes the warm, happy, safe childhood she had never Known. She literally searched for it checking the doors in Meereen. Her heart longs for the family and love she never had, the belonging, the companionship and that is the ideal she's been working towards her ASOIAF arc. I strongly recommend RUclips theory videos about the House with the Red Door-In Deep Geek makes an excellent job. (I am not him, I am a fan of him)
The passage of time in season 7 was absurd, and it was so evident in this episode. Gendry had to run back to Eastwatch - not sure how far that was, but certainly at least few hours of running. Then they had to compose a message and send the raven. The raven had to fly around 2000 miles to Dragonstone, then Dany had to fly that 2000 miles + however far north of the wall they are (and somehow find Jon and the others having never been there before), and all of that happened in the space of a few hours overnight...
nothing to see here just Gendry running 30 miles in half a day in heavy snow, and Dany and the Raven covering a 3,000 mile round trip in a day :'D Edit: Also, this is where the show takes a random turn to a 'Men are Stupid' vibe, even though Tyrion, Little Finger and Varys are 3 of the smartest people on the planet at this point in time.
Littlefinger's not stupid. He just didn't know that the Starks had a Bran. Bran is kind of a cheat code. If there was no Bran, then who would be there to call out Littlefinger on his bullshit? No one.
@@williamshelton4318LF is blinded by his desire for her when it comes to Sansa. All these characters are only human after all and being smart under certain circumstances and with regard to certain things doesn't make 'em immune to being complete idiots when it comes to others (and it should probably make me way more mad than it already does that in times of movies / TV being full of super heroes and Mary Sues and people complaining (!) about that all the time, the same people still can't appreciate GoT, not noticing how different it is from those other things!), just one of many, many examples for "fans" not getting the point at all 🙄
I remember when this came out, everyone was laughing at how silly and cliche this episode was. Especially how it basically shrunk Westeros to the size of New York. Not to mention how Jon fell into a frozen lake and lived.
Aye, especially when you think back to those conversations with Thorne in S1 about how deadly the cold was in winter north of the Wall. "You don't know cold" LOL!
It's not about loving cruelty, it's that this episode was so full of plot holes and the whole mission was so incredibly stupid that it felt like it betrayed everything that made the show great. P.S. Arya was so incredibly out of line and basically downright cruel to Sansa this episode
@@reddeaddave4675 The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
Yes, The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
Dany may seem like she's being difficult with Jon but if you notice she's given him everything he's asked for even though he hasn't once offered her anything in return. He refused to bend the knee and she still allowed him to mine the dragonglass and offered her own men and resources to help him. He refused to bend the knee again in the cave and she still valued his opinion, trusted him when he asked her to and agreed to the wight hunt meaning she was open to helping him fight his war if he brought one back. Then she brought all 3 of her dragons to save his life when she could've just as easily left him to die. If you think about it politically, she really had no logical reason to save him. Tyrion was technically right. From her perspective as a Queen, Jon's claiming himself as King of one of her kingdoms, refusing to bend the knee or help her win her war so just leaving him to die would be the smart political choice to win her war as quick and easy as possible and gain control of the North. Jon knows this too, but she didn't. Then he got her dragon killed and she didn't blame him for it, instead she tried to stop him feeling guilty about it then gave him her word that she would help fight his war with the Night King. All up until this point Jon has offered her absolutely nothing in return for anything she's given him and she gave up asking him to bend the knee in exchange for her help an episode ago (she never even mentioned it when agreeing to the wight hunt) so I think she has been more than reasonable tbh, even if she comes across as cold because she's trying to protect herself and Jon knows this. He knows she's been the only one to make any sacrifices. That's why he bends the knee even after she gave him everything he asked for. All of this is just happening in the subtext of the story and not the actual dialogue which is annoying because it's really not obvious unless you pick each scene apart. It's one of the many reasons people just couldn't understand this storyline when it aired, myself included.
How was it Jon's fault that her dragon died? It was Tyrion's plan for them to go get proof of the white walkers and Dany approved the plan. Jon was covering the others all getting on the Dragon and nothing Jon did caused the Dragon's death The group were still in the process of climbing up when the Dragon was brought down. None of them were expecting that the Dragons were in any immediate danger while flying around at the time. Then when they realized the danger Jon told Dany to leave him and go before she lost another dragon Everyone involved made choices that at the time they were making said choices felt it was worth the risk The Dragon was a casualty of war
Cersei is petty because she doesn't believe ice zombies are coming to destroy them? Would you believe it? An episode ago, Dany doesn't believe it either. Give Cersei a break.
When Dany said "he's too little for me" she was being defensive because Tyrion saw thru her, knowing that not only was John interested in her but that she was interested in John. Hence the reason she was stressing abt John risking his life going beyond the wall. lol and even tho she said he's to little for me defensively Tyrion knew she liked him lol. Her actions proved how she really felt about him as opposed to her words lol
The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
37:54 The fact that you were emotionally unaffected by Rickon's death, or the Sandsnakes's death is, to me, a testament to the show's poor writing. Those deaths did not land the way they were supposed to land for most of the audience. They didn't even land for the characters because we never see the Starks mourn Rickon, or even Dany mourn Viserion in S8. It's very unrealistic, not just to the show but to real life.
Sad to see your GoT journey is nearing the end but it's been so fun rewatching with you both. The discussions before and after make experience even richer and you guys are a top-tier reaction channel. Would love to see you guys tackle Chernobyl, The Glory, or whatever series you'd have good banter about, like this one.
37:20 It's not just about the show not being faithful to the books. There are critics who have never read the books, and immediately saw the dip in quality after S4, and consistently pointed out the problems after. A great example is Lili Loufbourow. Her writing about the show is nothing short of fantastic! You also gotta remember that the vast majority of disappointed fans have not read the books.
Honestly I felt a shift in season 4. The showrunners got more focused on epic moments and power-duos over everything else. Things really didn't start falling apart though until the end of season 5.
32:59 welp, you're right there Spartan. It is literally not possible to kill a dragon like this. The writers just thought it would be cool for the night king to have a dragon. Also, in the books the dragons aren't able to go over the wall💀💀
I never understood how the whole zombie dragon worked. How did they get the dragon out of the pool. How did they ever turn the dragon? Didn't viserion catch fire as he went down. U can't raise the dead if they were burnt.
After you've had time to digest this episode....ask yourself three questions. 1) where did the walkers get the chains from ? 2) did the whites plan all along to get a dragon and this was just part of the plan? and last but not least, 3) if the walkers can't swim...who swam down with these crazy heavy chains and attached them to the dragon? That will eat at your brain of a couple days.. LOL
Thank you Spartan and Pudgey for an excellent reaction to my favorite TV series. I ❤ that regardless of what others say about not enjoying the later seasons, you don't allow it to influence your opinion.
They’ve already finished the show lol ain’t nobody influencing anything at this point. I mostly enjoyed this season, I am interested to see they’re reaction to next season however lol
I love this from Spartan and Pudgey! Because honestly It is so annoying at this point. Like, we get it, a lot of people hate everything after season 4. Then why are you looking through reactions on RUclips of what traumatised you so much years after? Just leave and let the rest of us enjoy
@@mindshiftershub.or maybe you could just leave the comment section since you can't enjoy what the people who support this content think about the show
LOL Gendry ran to the wall, sent a raven to Dragon Stone, Danny fly her dragons all the way back to North of the wall, all that in less than 1 night. They must have some super sonic ravens and dragons.
Add to that the fact that Dany has never been to the wall, so how did she even know where to go? How long would it take her, flying around randomly, to spot a group of wights from the air (given that they just look like a dark mass even from camera height). And why the heck hasn't she made some kind of apparatus to hold on to? How many hours in a row is she supposed to be able to grip these six inch spines while wearing gloves?
@@Springheel01 It's a giant flippin' wall that runs completely across the north of the continent. It's rather hard to miss. You guys are starting to grasp at straws finding more reasons to hate the show.
@@ms_scribbles Yeah but once you get to the wall, how big is beyond the wall ? it seems huge with lakes, mountains, caves and plains...There is no way someone not familiar can locate anything with that weather and without any cold protection or ways to properly grab on the dragon
This was the first episode that really disappointed me. This is when they abandoned logic for great visuals. The last shot was great until you start to wonder where all those chains came from. The visual of the island was terrifying, but the waiting around goes against the “character” of the wights, who previously jumped off cliffs without thinking of consequence. This is when the writing duo should’ve had group discussions.
I don't understand why, in an episode full of irrational events, people think that chains being available in a port town is somehow out of place. What do people imagine anchors are connected to?
I like the part where the night king decided to spear the smaller dragon 500 feet in the air. Instead of the bigger dragon laying down right in front of him with people riding the dragon
"If it was season 4 he would've died" yeah, and you guys don't see anything wrong with this? 😂 if it was still book-based a lot of the characters would've died already, but now there's only plot armor, only the "bad" guys die.
Let's be fair; Sparta did confess right at the start that he didn't do this "shades of grey" stuff, he's all "Huzzah, the hero prevails over the bad guys!" and to hell with realism. He literally says _"If it was season 4 he would've died"_ like it's a _good_ thing!
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 yeah, i got that the two of them are like this lol you just have to watch their arcane reactions to Really get it 😂 they didn't like it basically bc there was no strong male character, only like Vi(which he couldn't connect with) and Vader who died🤷🏻♀️ I'm actually surprised that he really likes Korra.
You really have to feel for Daenerys at this point. If she exercises caution and strategy, she suffers losses. But if she goes right at it with her dragons, she again suffers losses. She is in a pressure cooker, and right now Jon is the only way out. He is the only one who understands her situation and can help her find a way to victory over all of the enemies north and south.
@@seancarroll5803 that's even weirder. the ending is marmite, you either love it or hate it. that feels like a filtered take to not piss people off on either side.
From here all the errors the writers made in earlier seasons come together to just make the plot absolutely broken - even basic stuff like they didn’t know dragons can’t go north of the wall
That "You're the fastest!" line to Gendry makes me Laugh aloud EVERY time!!!! Like, what???? You guys can now re- watch HOTD with greater appreciation for the Targaryen Family lineage that is noted at the start of House of the Dragon episode 1. It is pretty cool to see all of the people who led to Dany and Jon. I really hope they eventually cover the Blackfyre rebellion too!
@@alzer6467 - I love how everyone makes fun of the time compression, as if we need to watch them on the boats, sitting around for days while at sea, and then getting ready at the Wall, or the dead waiting for possibly days before realizing the ice was thick enough, in order for the time to have passed. He knew him for longer than "20 minutes," he saw him in the battle when they grabbed the wight. Did he show some good burst running out to ambush the dead? Jon's a seasoned battle commander. He can make a rough assessment of his speed. What would be his basis for thinking anyone else is faster? Except for Tormund, he didn't know any of them longer than Gendry. Just based on Gendry being the only one besides Jon who isn't an older f--k, you can probably make that guess and be right.
Dumb and Dumber edited out the part where Gendry informed Jon, he won Gold in the 40 yard dash, when he was in highschool. That's why Jon knew: He was the fastest!
Imagine how long they were on that rock in the middle the lake: they marched for days, so lets say it took Gendry 1 day to run with his superhuman stamina, then the raven from the wall to Dragonstone lets pretened it only took 2 weeks, then Dany on the Dragan which is stronger and faster than a crow but still has several hundred miles to fly....
realistic doesn't equal cruel. Loses are meaningless if they weren't realistic. I wouldn't like it even if all of them were killed illogically. But I hate it when they do somethings extremely unrealistic.
37:08 Although I'm sure it's not the only reason, I think _part_ of why you feel this way is because you're bingeing the show, and you're so into the spectacle that you have a blind spot for what's not working. When one watches the show week to week and takes the time to think it over and engage with the discourse around each episode, you're far more likely to see the gaping problems. Not long ago, I binge-watched *_The Good Wife_* for the first time. After a couple of seasons, I started reading reviews after every 1 or 2 episodes on the AV Club. They made me realize something that I had yet to pick up, which is that 2 main characters who interacted all the time in the past, had stopped interacting after 10+ episodes, because allegedly, the actors couldn't stand each other anymore. Once I noticed it, I couldn't unsee it, and indeed it caused a lot of narrative issues. I had felt that the quality had gone down past S5, but I missed a lot of the signs, in part because I was bingeing, but probably also because I was watching it for the first time, and wasn't engaging in deep critical thought after every episode.
This is very true, I notice people who binge watched the show don't have much of a problem with the final 2 seasons and I think one of the main reasons is the amount of time we waited between seasons. Especially the 2 years between S7&8, most people were already disappointed with S7 so to get those final 6 episodes we got in S8 just felt like a major insult. The community aspect around a show is a big factor too, like you point out, and GOT's community aspect online was huge at the time. Engaging in the discussion of the show or even just reading it after the fact can definitely change your watching experience of a show. For me I've found it's best to stay out of fandom discussion places because more often than not it ruins my watching experience of the show. Especially when there are fan wars or "teams" that everyone fights over. It's so exhausting when you just wanna discuss something you enjoy.
If someone's already going in with a negative attitude and has nothing better to do you mean. I watched the show an episode a week and a season a year back then and I didn't notice most of the flaws people pointed out (as far as that's even actually what they are, I mean). The point of a show is to be enjoyed and if it manages to do that, logic flaws / plotholes or not, it can't actually be that bad or (!) badly written, can it? (Especially (!) if people binging it as one, minus the ridiculously high anticiparion and expectations it couldn't possibly live up to, are obviously enjoying it MORE!)
@@Golladan Actually, it "kinda" does, yes (I mean, people are even discussing whether one should keep calling "The Room" a bad movie when so many people enjoy it so much and that's pretty much the most extreme example of "so bad it's good" one could think of; the fact that it's unintentionally (!) one of the most hilarious comedies doesn't mean that's not what it is; had Monty Python done something like that, people would have unironically praised it as hilarious). I mean how the f do you define "bad" in a movie / TV show if not as a lack of enjoyabilty, doesn't really make sense. Don't tell me it's 'cause it's got plot holes, as if you don't find those in pretty much every show / movie (if you don't have anything better to do than actively look for them). And all that's not even taking into account that they're by no means enjoying it in a "so bad it's good" kind of way, as unintenitonally funny or something, but are genuinely intrigued by the plot, the twists etc., so...
I’ve been enjoying this watch through but not sure I can stomach these last couple seasons again. Just too heartbreaking what they did to the greatest show to ever exist.
You are soo VERY arrogant. The ending makes TOTAL sense and the show was working to that end from the FRIST episode. You are just too butthurt that YOUR favorite didn't become King. That is arrogance at it highs!!
"what they did to the greatest show to ever exist." lol. even if GOT maintained its quality from early seasons, it's not close to the greatest show to ever exist. one of those actually greatest shows will be what they're replacing GOT with, and then they'd know what a top quality show is like.
@@skeeyee1643 not even close. take the series they're choosing to replace with GOT next for example, Breaking Bad. even season 4 or season 5 of Breaking Bad alone is way beyond GOT seasons 1-4 combined, and I say that as someone who loved GOT seasons 1-4.
“The ice was breaking cause my mans balls were dropping on it” just caught this during my second time watching this video haha… You guys crack me up! Love your channel. Good luck and be well ♥️✌🏻♥️
This episode is such a weird peice of TV. Every aspect of this episode is amazing.. outside of the clear "Why!?". It's shot amazingly/the cgi is stunning/the acting is amazing/the music is perfect.. But none of this makes any logical sense, from Gendry who's never been in a cold climate all his life able to run that distance back in that time.. Danny getting the raven, then flying in record speed, and also having cold resistance that high up in the air.. To the clear there's 0 point in doing this.. I think the show needed a big action set piece for the season to close so they were pushed into doing something stupid to apease the network. And to be fair aside from episode 9 of season 1, they have done the epic battle for almost every season. The biggest reason I want to see the books finished is to see what GRRM does in this section of the story.. I assume the ending will be very similar, but this part is so fucking random and out of place.
To appease the network? Mate, the network and everyone else would've loved to have more seasons and more episodes, it was completely Benioff & Weiss who were done with the show and wanted to move on to other things (well good luck, who wants them now?). They wanted to get to the end so everything happens in 2x speed and any pesky logic that would slow things down or make things impossible is thrown away.
@@mvprime8 It's far more complicated than that. Likely started during season 4, and we saw it in season 5. Season 7/8 were just an extention of the issues starting way back. A network wanting more episodes/seasons isn't always a good thing. D&D are at fault for part of this, but they also brought us seasons 1-4. Which are incredible seasons. The books were still in play during season 5, so the books running out isn't the issue.
@@Fauss I think we'll have another reason for them to either be at the wall, or go over it. Since Danny losing one of her Dragons and becoming an ice dragon seems like something GRRM would write
@@traviscue2099 I mostly defend the show from the haters but this episode does seem to have been written to answer someones question of "How do we give the Night King a dragon?". If the books eventually have a dragon turn this way, I hope it is made a little less obvious.
I found you two not long ago and I have to say watching GoT through your eyes is an absolute joy and a lot of laughs (and tears Pudgey!!). I haven't reached this point yet; just started S5, but I wanted to hopefully have you two see this comment and know that you're doing a fab job, love you two, can't wait to catch up to where you are now in the postings.
I can't lie. I am loving all the complaints coming about the nonsense that was the last two seasons in particular. Dan and Dave really rushed this like idiots.
This has been debunked actually. The production wasn't rushed. What you're trying to say is that the pacing of the plot was too fast but it has nothing to do with rushed production.
@@OswinPond No it isn't. Yes the pacing was also too fast but this was symptomatic of the writing being rushed in the first place. Obviously there had to be a reason why the pacing was too fast! Most likely because the writing was rushed...What other reason is there?
Don’t agree with the guys perspective on Dany not listening to Tyrion. She literally just lost her two major territories and allies, and he broke her trust. Different motives for each character and it’s uneasy listening to criticism toward a woman who achieved so much without these male advisors who can’t separate their personal motives from their actual jobs… Just noticing the pattern of bashing Dany in almost all of the reaction videos. It feels a little misogynistic.
I hated the fight between Sansa and Arya. Arya was being so petty imo, acting like they're still children with season one issues. She talks about Sansa standing there in that pretty dress and betraying their family- she didn't do anything to save their dad either. Both were children and helpless. And Arya literally served under Tywin herself. Why? Because she did it to survive, just like Sansa in King's Landing. It just gave me whiplash when it made both sisters act like they did in season one, when we know just how far they've both come.
35:08 _Dany taking Jon’s hand is also a nice moment that would have worked really well had their mutual attraction been depicted with anything like consistency. You can see the concept here. On Dany’s part, of all her suitors, Jon’s the only one who has any idea what the dragons mean to her, so he’s the only one who can comfort her in her grief; on Jon’s part, he finally sees that Dany really would put everything aside to save the realm, and with this all the barriers between them are down. The patchy leadup robs this moment of the support it needed._ *-TURTLE PACED*
The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
@@hokagedlo6133 That's not true. Average height for males in the US is 5'9". Any way you cut it, Jon Snow is a little fella. Look at his interactions in season 1 with a real man: Jamie Lannister. Jamie dwarfs over him. No woman would take Jon Snow over the likes of Jamie Lannister, Khal Drogo, Daario Naharis (either actor), or even an aging Jorah Mormont. Regardless of whether you think Dany is pretty or not, she is at the top of the social structure and as such has many extraordinary well-endowed suitors. She doesn't need to settle for average much less below average.
@@jesses5463 It was definitely a weird comment. Jon Snow is not a short character in canon. While book Jon Snow is still young and growing (I believe he is only 16 or 17 when he is stabbed at the end of Book 5?), he is never described as particularly small for his age. In fact, the only mention I remember regarding his height is that he is taller than Robb but skinnier, and both of them are shorter than Joffrey when Joff visits Winterfell. As far as the show goes, with camera angles and other aspects of "film magic," etc., most show fans had not really noticed that Kit was particularly short. So it was definitely noteworthy to me and most of my friends and family, who were book fans before the show started airing and who had been watching since S1E1. As the later seasons were airing, we had several conversations about how it felt like D&D couldn't resist taking digs at Kit, constantly writing dialogue that picked at his height or his "little pecker" or anything they could make fun of. To the point where it felt cruel. Like bullying. It's no wonder that Kit had mental health issues by the end of the show.
"That must be the quickest raven evah! " legit made me laugh 😅 Yup, Spartan, it was an equivalent of an Email. Oh, and it gets even better then that, just you wait! 😁😁
@@orphanedhanyou Its generaly agreed that the last few season become incredibly badly written, contrived and nonsensical. And even if that raven flew for several days off screen, it makes even less sense, as it would mean the crew up there behind the Wall stood on that frozen lake and fought zombies for weaks, or a full month or so untill the Dragons got up there. No food, no warmth, no sleap. Its so riddiculous I can hardly believe it even now 😅
I agree with every criticism of the writing but there is one major issue that few people ever mention....Cersei cannot be trusted under any circumstances. Even if she knew about the white walkers, you can't trust Cersei anyway - which makes this entire plan/plot completely pointless and stupid.
This is the point fans think every single second was shown on screen, that just because dragons didn't cross the wall in the books means they CAN'T vs the dragons REFUSED to go, that riverbanks are always shallow, that armor weighs hundreds of pounds, these 'fans' ARE IDIOTS.
There was a book before GOT called the Ice dragon. By GEORGE R MARTIN. Once Danny went with her dragons to save them, I knew what was coming. Heart breaking
Earlier Seasons weren't full of "cruelty" like Spartan said. They were full of REALISM when it came to the jeopardy that the Characters were in. Remember how KHAL DROGO died...from an infection after purposefully pushing himself millimetres too far into a blade! Also, no-one disregards the fact that episodes like this are entertaining, especially first time round whilst not thinking, however, episodes like this broke Game of Thrones own in-universe rules in a plentitude of ways:- - One such thing, as many will point out - FAST TRAVEL. It took from multiple episodes to multiple years for people like Arya & The Hound to travel short distances compared to those travelled in this episode. Also, what these final 2 Seasons entail in terms of travel is that everyone gets to their destination before they entertain any jeopardy, whereas things could and often did go wrong DURING the journey from one place to the next. That's totally gone now. - They used to follow the amazing writing rule of "SHOW, DONT TELL" when it comes to characters falling in love. You could feel Jon & Ygritte's chemistry through the screen, the little looks they gave each other, we all knew they loved each other before Orell ever even asked Ygritte if she did. Now they just "TELL, DON'T SHOW "... You could take Cersei's question to Brienne about if she loves Jaime or not out of the show and 99% of people would categorically tell you that Jaime and Brienne are in love with each other & they've never once uttered those words. It's all been SHOWN via interactions, conversations, little looks here and there etc. Take Davos and Tyrion's scenes where they're TELLING Jon & Dany that they're in to each other & making it obvious that they're gonna fuck, out of the show and you'll see that Jon & Dany haven't shown a single iota of chemistry between themselves or that they like each other. You'd fully think they actually quite hate each other and are reluctantly working together so Jon can get his Dragonglass mined. All-in-all, I don't wanna keep going on, but I could point out a lot of other things (like the fact that Sansa never gave Jon the option of Littlefinger's army even when he explicitly asked her "THEN WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE ME DO?" But blames him for "not listening to her" and Jon never has pushback against that 🤦). These really push towards this episode and others in this Season & Next not being "amazing writing" or a "masterpiece" like Spartan exclaimed. Especially comparing to Hardhome which is one of the most perfect episodes in TV History. This may have been exciting but it's an insult to say it's on par with Hardhome lol.
"this episode was a 10/10 masterpiece" - both of them it's a shame to think they're reacting to Breaking Bad next. they don't deserve to watch a show that's actually that good lol. they should stick to action stuff or marvel or something simple like this.
This was the episode where the wheels really started falling off for me - the writer's corner cutting just to hit a bunch of plot points within the limited number of episodes they forced HBO to buy became clearly evident.
they said the long night was a perfect episode as well, I corrected them on patreon wth everything wrong with the episode and they even admitted that i was correct about the issues
Arya and the viewers forget that Sansa was imprisoned in the Red Keep. She played courtesies to try and bargain for her father's life . She had no protectors at all.
Remember this, Dany agreed to help jon without him bendig the knee Jon decided to bend the knee Remember this... They are going to shape this as if Dany forced jon to bend the knee so she would help him That she cares about the throne more , meanwhile she abandoned that quest & went north to fight the others, tried to take it peacefully & didn't rush it But d&d try so hard to twist it Especially in how Sam talks abt it w' jon
Right, all the things they did to make Danny look so bad ruined the show writing, even others characteres had their story changed to something that doesn't make sense
Nah, they won't. Apparently they think it makes sense that she snapped because "that is the Targaryen way" and "Rhaenyra had that same look in her eye after they killed her son" 😂😂😂 At least that's what they said in the livestream. I bet Spartan will be PISSED because Jon wasn't named King, but that's about the extent of it.
@hokagedlo6133 Her story in the show will be the same in the books. Hopefully, it's done better, but that was Martin's ending. All the main things that happened in the end came from him. Unless he's rewriting it based on people's response, which I doubt, she will go mad queen in the book.
I hear you. Yes, she did. And because she saw the wights herself, she sees the bigger threat. But once that's accomplished she 100% pivots back to her blind ambition. I think Dany snapping at the end and burning all of KL (these are not spoilers since they've watched the whole series) and then saying to her armies that they're going to do the same to Winterfell & all of Westeros makes no sense. BUT let's not pretend that she wasn't totally focused on sitting on the iron throne. Her feeling threatened but Jon was absolutely believable.
some things about viserion's death: 1) dany was using his colours (viserion was known as the "white dragon") 2) Rhaegal and viserion spent much of their time together and when viserion falls, the other follows him almost until the ground 3) although drogon didn't spent so much time lately with his brothers, his scream when viserion was shot was painfull to watch
12:11 I think it’s absolutely fair to say Jon lost the battle of the bastards. “He put in the work” - yeah, unnecessarily. He jumped the gun. Sansa begged him to hold back and wait and he stubbornly refused and got himself in that mess that the Knights of the Vale had to bail him out of. All because he refused to listen to Sansa. Jon has had many accomplishments but that battle was probably his biggest failure.
Jon was not "stubborn" and he did not "refuse to wait" to start the battle. He has absolutely no reason to wait, because Sansa was being deceptive. He literally asked her where he could get the extra men he needed, and she bare lied to his face. All you Sansa-shippers, answer me this - if she won the BoB _despite_ Jon's actions, why hadn't she called up the Knights of the Vale and got the win beforehand?
I'm one of the few who love Season 7, 8, and the ending. It's a bit rushed here and there with some convenient plot devices, but as a whole it's great. Season 7 and 8 are kind of the 'third act' like you'd see in a movie, where it is more action-oriented and full of big moments. The pacing as a whole, from Season 1-8, is great in my opinion. People get too worked up.
I agree. There are definitely some criticisms to be had in the last few seasons, but to be fair, there are criticisms to be had in all the seasons. But no one wants to talk about those. The show isn’t perfect (it never was), but I still enjoyed myself all the way through.
The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
THANK YOU FOR yet another awesome reaction! When Spartan said "I wish I could cry" I felt that 😂 I also really enjoyed the zoom in edits, it felt hilarious for some reason.
31:04 I understand that you want to see Jon on the dragon, but Rhaegal would never come back for him, he has no connection with Jon. Remember that dragons don't form a bond with a human simply because they have Targaryen blood. Drogon didn't immediately allow Daenerys to ride him. D&D kinda forgot about it in the next seasons 🫠
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I personally really liked season 7 and 8 although the pace was increased but means there more action. Cant be cheap annimating those dragons
The title should say "breathe", by the way.
@@jayblack8132:
In some cases where people are complaining, the scenes are simply asynchronous, though; that's nothing new, and can be frequently observed throughout the entire series. Didn't check to see if that's the case here or not, though.
@@jayblack8132:
Like I said, I haven't personally checked whether it's inconsistent myself, but "hand-waving" skips of time where people travel is very common (happens throughout the entire series), and I'm not sure that isn't the case here.
I have undertood you finished watching the entire series on their Patreon channel. So I can write spoiler here. The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
When Spartan kept getting bigger when he was talking about Jon Snow not being little had me in bits 🤣
lol
Me too! 😂😂😂😂
Is Spartan short? I would still think he was 😮💨 even if he was 5’ but now I’m curious
@@Wraiven22bro I saw their Twitter and he looked tall af, he's a true spartan lol, unless pudgey is really short which is okay, but spartan looked over 6 foot 3 tbh lol cuz in 5'8"
That line he’s too little is such sh;t modern Hollywood writing, oh Jon has to be the 6,7,8 rule for me, lol what a joke
All that rowing really built up Gendrys cardio
Plus he's really excited to be in snow the first time in his life
Fun fact: he ran most of it on his hands using his upper body strength from YEARS of ROWING when his legs got tired.
Shout out to Ramin Djawadi for the amazing music start to finish, the theme when the dragons arrive is so beautiful and triumphant
Absolutely! The night this episode aired, that scene when Dany rode Drogon with Ramin's phenomenal music playing gave me chills.
his favorite character is dany so you can tell he really puts effort into her themes
Everything he does is amazing. I also love his music in Iron Man and Pacific Rim. It’s so different from Game of Thrones but equally amazing!
I got see Ramin in concert and he played the Targaryen theme on electric guitar and it was amazing!!
Imagine being Dany and losing one of your kids to save Jon just so he can run off and STILL not get on board Drogon
Yeah, that is something that could drive you crazy, eh?
Lol I still dont understand why he just kept fighting. I'm mean once everyone was on Drogon he had every opportunity to climb on but he just kept fight and making his way further away. Almost like he wanted to just die there. Lol
@@annjenkins2677It is really stupid and I'm shocked we only got a calm "Jon get on the Dragon now" from Pudgey. The first time I watched it I screamed at the TV "JON WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING?!" And the worst part is that with a bit of editing it could've been fine, we did not need that dramatic stare down between Jon and the Night King.
@@hopemikaelson9223 yeah I can't believe neither one of them were like get the fuck on the dragon. Because that's exactly what I was yelling but I added " you dumb fuck where the fuck are going " Lol
Jon knew he had to come home hurt and almost dead or else babygirl would be mad at him lol
"That must be the quickest raven ever". Everyone apperently learned to teleport in season 7 so its all according to the plot!
LOL! They figured a Raven is too slow, so they sent a Peregrine Falcon with the message instead!
Birdy has gone supersonic! LOL
Time goes by, we just don't see it on screen. Why would we waste episodes on travel in season 7
@@716olli716 that's one of the weaknesses of storytelling in seasons 7 and 8... In the early seasons we mostly saw everything happen in real time. No flashbacks, no big time jumps, at least not within the same episode. If someone left a location in episode two, then we'd see them traveling in episode three, that kind of thing. It helped keep everything in the moment.
@@neospock5034yeah, right, that's why we see Cersei and Jaime in KL in literally the first episode and then in Winterfell, like 10 minutes later, eh? 🤣
I never comment on videos.. But "The ice was cracking because my mans mammoth balls were fuckin droppin on the ice" had me DYING
Perfect
The white outfit Dany is wearing is one of my favorites of the series
For sure! Costume and production designers did their jobs well through the end of the series.
It looks horrendous
@@Nova03463 opinions
@@Heather61776 it looks like a Pyjama and does not fit into the World of Westeros at all
@@Nova03463 again, opinion
"Bran can do something, can't he?"
Yeah you'd think
Um yup he does. That's how Sansa and Arya have all the info on Littlefinger.
@@annjenkins2677bad writing excuse considering Sansa and Arya already know how much of an untrustworthy slimeball littlefinger is. No reason for them to fake fight each other when they have a million reasons to execute him as soon as they retook winterfell
@@orlog3343 ok
@@orlog3343 True but it’s fun watching them troll him
@@orlog3343without mentioning Littlefinger's IQ reduction by at least 40 points following season 6. Just a terribly managed character
When I saw his joy at seeing Danny leave with the 3 dragons I thought.... "Ooooh poor poor children, this will be painful!"
The best part of this show in these later seasons is definitely the dragons. Watching the cinematography of the dragons in action is always something to behold. Glad you two are still enjoying yourselves, it makes the reaction enjoyable.
Yes, in spite of this shows flaws it still has the best "live action" dragons I've ever seen.
Also the wardrobe, cgi & cinematography etc. Some absolutely gorgeous shots in S8 especially. Basically everything but the plot 😅
That's what D&D were counting on. Screw the writing, let's make an action flick. After 6 seasons they knew the fans loved those dragons, so they used them to get fan reactions and bring in fans who didn't care about the show or books. They just like action and shit blowing up. It turned into WWE. I agree with Puggy on it was time. It's just how we got there. We lost people throughout this series but 10 stupid things didn't have to happen first. Thoros was one of my favorites and Benjin was a fake Cold Hands for fan reaction, but they were B and C characters. If the show got more popular after killing Drogo and Ned, the could have killed Jorah or Tormund.
@@clownafra6088 I only got 30 minutes into the D&D movie. Don't recall any dragons, but perhaps they come later.
@@clownafra6088people screeched for so long how this show was only about "tits & dragons" and then when they give you just tits and dragons everyone complains lol i feel so bad for D&D and what a daunting task it must've been to finish this series only to have all these people shit on their work. Those guys were tireddd you could tell 😆
22:20 Although I don't like anything about this mission and its execution, Spartan's childlike excitement is always a delight!
Same. I actually enjoy their reactions to the show at this point more than I enjoyed the show itself.
@@TheReDeeMeR1988huh?
@@TheReDeeMeR1988huh
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 huh?
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 huh
when Pudgey said "NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR NOR" i felt that
Pudgy saying no in her Australian accent is the only reason I’m subscribed
"NOERRR!!!"
I thought they were from New Zealand
it's like "NAURR!"
and Spartan's "YUCK"
I'm Aussie. They're definitely from Australia. Spartan has the greek/serb influenced Aussie dialect. @@sequoia1171
The Night King just scored himself a rare Blue Eyes Wight Dragon. 😅
10000 pts for you 😊
"They're gonna revive the dragon!"
"Noooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!"
It would have made sense if Dany was at the wall prepared to come pick them up as part of the plan.
There ya go.. but that’s just you putting more logical thought into it than the writers did.
That would've solved like 80% of the issues in this episode. Specially because they planned this stupid plan at Dragonsone and it was Tyrion's brilliant idea. I guess you could say he didn't really care about sending Jon to his death and didn't expect Danny to go running after him 😂 Ah what the hell, it sucks no matter how you look at it.
@hopemikaelson9223 ehh I kinda liked it even with the obvious flaws.. but like the original plan of Tyrions is so idiotic. Every plan he has failed.. like just fire him at this point. And tyrions first bad idea was leaving Daario in essos. At least he gave Dany good advice.
it made no sense in first place
Or at the very least they could have taken a raven with them and then gendry wouldn’t have had to run back
1:09 *Dany was absolutely raised as a Targaryen.* Just because she grew up in exile doesn't negate that. Her brother drilled it into her, and she heard about her family from other people. That's like saying Theon wasn't raised as Greyjoy because he grew up in Winterfell, and Ned & Robert weren't raised as Stark & Baratheon because they grew up in the Eyrie. When you are from a prominent House, growing up away from home doesn't erase your family heritage and upbringing. You are reminded of it constantly.
You're right, however Theon and Ned are not exactly what a Greyjoy and a Stark should be according to their family's history
@@niccologregorutti Care to elaborate? Especially on Ned. Being part of a family doesn't mean you all have the exact same personality and value everything equally. Ned still subscribed to the Stark values, and Theon was proud of being a Greyjoy, even if there are Ironborn values that he seem to not embrace. Family values and country values don't necessarily overlap. Also you could say the same thing about Yara/Asha, even though she grew up in her home with her family.
In the books, she wants to rule the Iron Islands, but her vision is to surrender and make peace with the North, so they can unite and beat the Lannister. She understands that taking over Westeros and taking over the North is folly! Would her father have done the same? No. Does that mean she's not a true Greyjoy or a true Ironborn? Also, no.
Absolutely the BEST explanation of anyone!
People will ALWAYS be who they are. It is their choice.
And you can have all the best council or help along the way, but in the end, you are who you are.
@@Mic-Mak Aeron,Balon and Asha follow the Ironborn tradition,they pray the drowned god,their way of life is pillaging and ravaging. Theon on the other hand doesn't seem to care about the tradition of the Iron Islands,his pride comes from being part of a noble family and the son of a Great Lord,the fact that his family is the Greyjoy of the Iron Islands doesn't seem to be that important to him until he comes back home. Ned was raised in the Vale,and he is completely different from Rickard,Lyanna,Brandon, and the old Lords of Winterfell,much more ambitious,wild and cruel. On the other hand it's clear the influence that Jon Arryn had on him,Ned is very honourable,honest and chivalrous,even though his real family was much more hotblooded, and wild. Ned resembles more the Arryn than the Starks of the past,except for him praying the old gods and passing the sentence himself
Indeed: Dany was absolutely NOT "raised as a slave"
emilia clarke as dany is the single best casting all time. what an incredible woman emilia is. icon
one of the worst characters in the show and this is the whole show im talking about, not just the last few seasons
emilia single handily made dany most popular character on earth. incredible really
@@seancarroll5803 you fuming bro dany is most beloved in the world. a staggering gap to second place in this franchise.
Ignorant take
@@JonnyQuest64 Even if not number 1 on your list. she is up there for millions of us. i would also have her as best ever. and every day that goes by makes this more obvious. resonated with the entire world.
and to say emilia is an icon is an understatement!
Dany, Jon and Tyrion have enough XP that they put it all into plot armor and fast travel abilities but at an intense intelligence debuff
Ah, Beyond the Wall, the episode where they invented teleportation, where they taught the wights to swim and where it was revealed that there's a hardware store beyond the wall.
Isn't Eastwatch a port? Exactly where one would expect to find heavy chains? And wights don't swim, but there's nothing stopping them just trudging along the lake bed - it's not as though they are going to drown.
"Can they swim"
"No"
"Good"
I guess D&D Kinda forgot
Beyond the Wall Depot. Open 24/7
Teleporting existed before you just had to be rich to use it like varys and littlefinger . By season 7 they developed the technology to teleport people a lot cheaper so everyone could do it.
Also really developed the plot armour this season, Thank god as our heroes have got a lot more stupid and that would have got them killed in earlier seasons.
You don’t swim on ice you walk on it
I love that Jon's answer to everything amounts to "1v1 me right now! Bitch you won't!"
I mean it's not a bad plan when you're great with a sword.
@@BhBc8f8it’s a bad plan when you can’t take on thousands of undead with a sword. He acts like the NK is just as dumb as him
Spartan is adorable with how giddy he got. 😂I’ve never seen him so happy.
Forreals its so infectious, to think of all the times I used to troll him at the very beginning, I take it all back
Dany spent the first 5 years of her life in the house of a nobleman in Bravos, or so she believed, because it is vague in the books and it creates a big deal about Danny's identity(but that's another story.) She remembers it as "the house with the red door and the lemontree outside her window". When her protector died and Robert 's reign was established in Westeros, she and Vicerys were kicked out of the house with the red door and they traveled along all the Free Cities, to find allies or hospitality. That's why Vicerys was called "The beggar King". They lived in the streets for 8 years as beggars, hunted by Robert's assassins, or that's what Vicerys believed. He was telling Dany stories about Westeros, Dragons, Kings and knights, but he was abusing her every time he got mad. They were so hungry, that he had to sell his mother's crown, to get money and food and after that he totally snapped. After these 8 years they found hospitality for six months in the house of Illyrio Mopatis and we know the rest. In the books it is not the Iron Throne Daenerys wants. All she wants is to go back to "the house with the Red door and the lemontree outside her window", witch symbolizes the warm, happy, safe childhood she had never Known. She literally searched for it checking the doors in Meereen. Her heart longs for the family and love she never had, the belonging, the companionship and that is the ideal she's been working towards her ASOIAF arc.
I strongly recommend RUclips theory videos about the House with the Red Door-In Deep Geek makes an excellent job. (I am not him, I am a fan of him)
The passage of time in season 7 was absurd, and it was so evident in this episode. Gendry had to run back to Eastwatch - not sure how far that was, but certainly at least few hours of running. Then they had to compose a message and send the raven. The raven had to fly around 2000 miles to Dragonstone, then Dany had to fly that 2000 miles + however far north of the wall they are (and somehow find Jon and the others having never been there before), and all of that happened in the space of a few hours overnight...
This is where the show just goes completely off the rails
It started from season 5
I think fully off the rails is next season, but it's a train wreck in progress the whole time
It started veering off the rails during season 5. Even the faults in the railway line started to appear in season 2.
@@Al-ji4gd i think it was pretty solid seasons 1-4, 5-6 was a real dip in quality, then 7-8 is just digital cancer
How long - if ever - do you think it will take S&P to notice? Given that they describe this episode as "a masterpiece", I'm guessing never.
nothing to see here just Gendry running 30 miles in half a day in heavy snow, and Dany and the Raven covering a 3,000 mile round trip in a day :'D
Edit: Also, this is where the show takes a random turn to a 'Men are Stupid' vibe, even though Tyrion, Little Finger and Varys are 3 of the smartest people on the planet at this point in time.
Littlefinger's not stupid. He just didn't know that the Starks had a Bran. Bran is kind of a cheat code. If there was no Bran, then who would be there to call out Littlefinger on his bullshit? No one.
Gendry Maratheon was the best joke of Season 7.
Tyrion becomes a dick joke specialist
Don't forget the Night Kings magical swimming zombies who happened to have 3 massive chains to raise the dragon out of the lake 😂
@@williamshelton4318LF is blinded by his desire for her when it comes to Sansa. All these characters are only human after all and being smart under certain circumstances and with regard to certain things doesn't make 'em immune to being complete idiots when it comes to others (and it should probably make me way more mad than it already does that in times of movies / TV being full of super heroes and Mary Sues and people complaining (!) about that all the time, the same people still can't appreciate GoT, not noticing how different it is from those other things!), just one of many, many examples for "fans" not getting the point at all 🙄
Arya forgetting she served tywin and missed the opportunity to kill him is one symptom of the fall of got imo
I remember when this came out, everyone was laughing at how silly and cliche this episode was. Especially how it basically shrunk Westeros to the size of New York. Not to mention how Jon fell into a frozen lake and lived.
Aye, especially when you think back to those conversations with Thorne in S1 about how deadly the cold was in winter north of the Wall. "You don't know cold" LOL!
The change of emotion from Dani showing up to the night king grabbing the ice spear…. 😂
It's not about loving cruelty, it's that this episode was so full of plot holes and the whole mission was so incredibly stupid that it felt like it betrayed everything that made the show great.
P.S. Arya was so incredibly out of line and basically downright cruel to Sansa this episode
As I said before, so why don't you complain about the plot holes BEFORE the show passed the books?
@@boki1693 i'm curious , what plot holes?
@@reddeaddave4675 The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
Yes, The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
It’s all subjective at the end of the day
After 7 seasons, I was used to seeing almost anything on this show. Flaming zombie bear still caught me a bit off guard.
Apparently "@matthewanderson2162" is the Hound's RUclips handle.
😆😆 ... that was a "big fxcker"
an 11 feet tall 1700 lbs real life monstrosity but also undead and burning is peak horror
Dany really sacrificed everything to save Jon. Let’s put respect on her name
Uhm no
@@thatswhatithought6519then you’re just hating for no reason at all lol
@@thatswhatithought6519 she is the most respected fictional character on the planet
Dany may seem like she's being difficult with Jon but if you notice she's given him everything he's asked for even though he hasn't once offered her anything in return. He refused to bend the knee and she still allowed him to mine the dragonglass and offered her own men and resources to help him. He refused to bend the knee again in the cave and she still valued his opinion, trusted him when he asked her to and agreed to the wight hunt meaning she was open to helping him fight his war if he brought one back. Then she brought all 3 of her dragons to save his life when she could've just as easily left him to die. If you think about it politically, she really had no logical reason to save him. Tyrion was technically right. From her perspective as a Queen, Jon's claiming himself as King of one of her kingdoms, refusing to bend the knee or help her win her war so just leaving him to die would be the smart political choice to win her war as quick and easy as possible and gain control of the North. Jon knows this too, but she didn't. Then he got her dragon killed and she didn't blame him for it, instead she tried to stop him feeling guilty about it then gave him her word that she would help fight his war with the Night King.
All up until this point Jon has offered her absolutely nothing in return for anything she's given him and she gave up asking him to bend the knee in exchange for her help an episode ago (she never even mentioned it when agreeing to the wight hunt) so I think she has been more than reasonable tbh, even if she comes across as cold because she's trying to protect herself and Jon knows this. He knows she's been the only one to make any sacrifices. That's why he bends the knee even after she gave him everything he asked for. All of this is just happening in the subtext of the story and not the actual dialogue which is annoying because it's really not obvious unless you pick each scene apart. It's one of the many reasons people just couldn't understand this storyline when it aired, myself included.
How was it Jon's fault that her dragon died?
It was Tyrion's plan for them to go get proof of the white walkers and Dany approved the plan.
Jon was covering the others all getting on the Dragon and nothing Jon did caused the Dragon's death
The group were still in the process of climbing up when the Dragon was brought down.
None of them were expecting that the Dragons were in any immediate danger while flying around at the time.
Then when they realized the danger Jon told Dany to leave him and go before she lost another dragon
Everyone involved made choices that at the time they were making said choices felt it was worth the risk
The Dragon was a casualty of war
@@williamshelton4318 the blood relation thing? 🤣🤣 marrying another targaryen is the best prospect she could possibly wish for.
Agreed
Um shes trying to recruit him as a ally.why would he give her anything?
@@baronhomer1 nope. He needs her.
And way down we go 😅😅😅
Everytime I see the dragon die it brings tears to my eyes
Cersei is petty because she doesn't believe ice zombies are coming to destroy them? Would you believe it? An episode ago, Dany doesn't believe it either. Give Cersei a break.
Also as a reminder, Ned didn't believe it either. He killed the deserted who saw White Walkers and thought he was a mad man.
When Dany said "he's too little for me" she was being defensive because Tyrion saw thru her, knowing that not only was John interested in her but that she was interested in John. Hence the reason she was stressing abt John risking his life going beyond the wall. lol and even tho she said he's to little for me defensively Tyrion knew she liked him lol. Her actions proved how she really felt about him as opposed to her words lol
The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
37:54 The fact that you were emotionally unaffected by Rickon's death, or the Sandsnakes's death is, to me, a testament to the show's poor writing. Those deaths did not land the way they were supposed to land for most of the audience. They didn't even land for the characters because we never see the Starks mourn Rickon, or even Dany mourn Viserion in S8. It's very unrealistic, not just to the show but to real life.
you 2 are funny AF, you were both catching flies quite a few times this episode. Spartan almost lost his boyfriend.
Rewatching this episode gives me a migraine and PTSD
Its the worst episode of the show for me.
Then....don't watch it?
@@ms_scribbles I don't want to, but eh intrusive thoughts ig
Sad to see your GoT journey is nearing the end but it's been so fun rewatching with you both. The discussions before and after make experience even richer and you guys are a top-tier reaction channel. Would love to see you guys tackle Chernobyl, The Glory, or whatever series you'd have good banter about, like this one.
37:20 It's not just about the show not being faithful to the books. There are critics who have never read the books, and immediately saw the dip in quality after S4, and consistently pointed out the problems after. A great example is Lili Loufbourow. Her writing about the show is nothing short of fantastic! You also gotta remember that the vast majority of disappointed fans have not read the books.
Lili who?
Honestly I felt a shift in season 4. The showrunners got more focused on epic moments and power-duos over everything else. Things really didn't start falling apart though until the end of season 5.
Omg Goku was in the show this episode, teaching Danny and her dragon instant transmission 😂😂😂
🤣
You could even hear the sound it makes "pfchinnnn" 😂
35:18😂😂😂😂 I was cracking up when Spartan kept getting big.
32:59 welp, you're right there Spartan. It is literally not possible to kill a dragon like this. The writers just thought it would be cool for the night king to have a dragon.
Also, in the books the dragons aren't able to go over the wall💀💀
Yes! Silverwing disobeyed alysanne whenever she tries to go beyond the wall!
There also isnt a night king in the books iirc. The white walkers exist but in a very different way
@Joseph-- Please read the novels and Fire and Blood and you'll see what I mean 💀💀
@@Noone91875 yes exactly😭
I never understood how the whole zombie dragon worked.
How did they get the dragon out of the pool.
How did they ever turn the dragon?
Didn't viserion catch fire as he went down.
U can't raise the dead if they were burnt.
Gendry: Westeros Marathon Champion
After you've had time to digest this episode....ask yourself three questions. 1) where did the walkers get the chains from ? 2) did the whites plan all along to get a dragon and this was just part of the plan? and last but not least, 3) if the walkers can't swim...who swam down with these crazy heavy chains and attached them to the dragon? That will eat at your brain of a couple days.. LOL
" Jon and him are always having stare offs , it's beautiful "
Good Time's lol .
Thank you Spartan and Pudgey for an excellent reaction to my favorite TV series. I ❤ that regardless of what others say about not enjoying the later seasons, you don't allow it to influence your opinion.
They’ve already finished the show lol ain’t nobody influencing anything at this point. I mostly enjoyed this season, I am interested to see they’re reaction to next season however lol
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 People have been bitching about the show for a long time already in these comment sections lol. It's kind of obnoxious
I love this from Spartan and Pudgey! Because honestly It is so annoying at this point. Like, we get it, a lot of people hate everything after season 4. Then why are you looking through reactions on RUclips of what traumatised you so much years after? Just leave and let the rest of us enjoy
@@andrewmatos8300 I feel ya, I don’t think the bitching should have really started until about this point in the series lmao
@@mindshiftershub.or maybe you could just leave the comment section since you can't enjoy what the people who support this content think about the show
LOL Gendry ran to the wall, sent a raven to Dragon Stone, Danny fly her dragons all the way back to North of the wall, all that in less than 1 night. They must have some super sonic ravens and dragons.
Add to that the fact that Dany has never been to the wall, so how did she even know where to go? How long would it take her, flying around randomly, to spot a group of wights from the air (given that they just look like a dark mass even from camera height). And why the heck hasn't she made some kind of apparatus to hold on to? How many hours in a row is she supposed to be able to grip these six inch spines while wearing gloves?
@@Springheel01 I'm willing to let that point go because the Hound did highlight the mountain that look like arrow head.
@@Springheel01 It's a giant flippin' wall that runs completely across the north of the continent. It's rather hard to miss.
You guys are starting to grasp at straws finding more reasons to hate the show.
@@ms_scribbles Yeah but once you get to the wall, how big is beyond the wall ? it seems huge with lakes, mountains, caves and plains...There is no way someone not familiar can locate anything with that weather and without any cold protection or ways to properly grab on the dragon
And the fact that dragons can’t go over the wall because of the magic, but you know D&D just kinda forgot
This was the first episode that really disappointed me. This is when they abandoned logic for great visuals. The last shot was great until you start to wonder where all those chains came from. The visual of the island was terrifying, but the waiting around goes against the “character” of the wights, who previously jumped off cliffs without thinking of consequence. This is when the writing duo should’ve had group discussions.
I don't understand why, in an episode full of irrational events, people think that chains being available in a port town is somehow out of place. What do people imagine anchors are connected to?
they abandoned logic back when Arya survived the bridge stabbing
I like the part where the night king decided to spear the smaller dragon 500 feet in the air. Instead of the bigger dragon laying down right in front of him with people riding the dragon
"If it was season 4 he would've died" yeah, and you guys don't see anything wrong with this? 😂 if it was still book-based a lot of the characters would've died already, but now there's only plot armor, only the "bad" guys die.
Don't forget the nameless redshirts
Let's be fair; Sparta did confess right at the start that he didn't do this "shades of grey" stuff, he's all "Huzzah, the hero prevails over the bad guys!" and to hell with realism. He literally says _"If it was season 4 he would've died"_ like it's a _good_ thing!
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 did he really say that at the start, do you remember which episode so i can see it, I must have forgotten
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 yeah, i got that the two of them are like this lol you just have to watch their arcane reactions to Really get it 😂 they didn't like it basically bc there was no strong male character, only like Vi(which he couldn't connect with) and Vader who died🤷🏻♀️ I'm actually surprised that he really likes Korra.
You really have to feel for Daenerys at this point. If she exercises caution and strategy, she suffers losses. But if she goes right at it with her dragons, she again suffers losses. She is in a pressure cooker, and right now Jon is the only way out. He is the only one who understands her situation and can help her find a way to victory over all of the enemies north and south.
these two are going to defend the final season, i just know it
they finished the show and in one of their livestreams they said they didnt love the ending but also didnt hate it
@@seancarroll5803 that's even weirder. the ending is marmite, you either love it or hate it. that feels like a filtered take to not piss people off on either side.
And that’s fine if they do.
@@kitlow2970”You either love it or hate it.”
Wrong.
Spartan’s reaction to Dany arriving is my favorite part of this video.
From here all the errors the writers made in earlier seasons come together to just make the plot absolutely broken - even basic stuff like they didn’t know dragons can’t go north of the wall
Funny, how you guys don't mind that everyone has just unlocked fast travel! 🤣
I love it, I've never seen Spartan that emotional 💗
That "You're the fastest!" line to Gendry makes me Laugh aloud EVERY time!!!! Like, what????
You guys can now re- watch HOTD with greater appreciation for the Targaryen Family lineage that is noted at the start of House of the Dragon episode 1. It is pretty cool to see all of the people who led to Dany and Jon. I really hope they eventually cover the Blackfyre rebellion too!
ha, he only met the guy 20 minutes earlier.
@@alzer6467 They must have cut out the scene where they had a foot race to determine who was fastest LOL!
and Gendry's probably never run through (or even seen?) snow in his entire life
@@alzer6467 - I love how everyone makes fun of the time compression, as if we need to watch them on the boats, sitting around for days while at sea, and then getting ready at the Wall, or the dead waiting for possibly days before realizing the ice was thick enough, in order for the time to have passed.
He knew him for longer than "20 minutes," he saw him in the battle when they grabbed the wight. Did he show some good burst running out to ambush the dead? Jon's a seasoned battle commander. He can make a rough assessment of his speed.
What would be his basis for thinking anyone else is faster? Except for Tormund, he didn't know any of them longer than Gendry. Just based on Gendry being the only one besides Jon who isn't an older f--k, you can probably make that guess and be right.
Dumb and Dumber edited out the part where Gendry informed Jon, he won Gold in the 40 yard dash, when he was in highschool. That's why Jon knew: He was the fastest!
Spartan is so angry about the height comment, and pudgey is laughing about it XD
I couldn’t handle it when Viserion was as taken down. I screamed like Ellaria Sand did when Oberyn died
Your reactions are awesome. Love you guys. All the way from South Africa. Big shout out to both of you😊
Ahh hey fellow South African! I'm from CPT!
My fellow South African, I'm from cpt
Hy fellow citizens I'm from JHB
Imagine how long they were on that rock in the middle the lake: they marched for days, so lets say it took Gendry 1 day to run with his superhuman stamina, then the raven from the wall to Dragonstone lets pretened it only took 2 weeks, then Dany on the Dragan which is stronger and faster than a crow but still has several hundred miles to fly....
realistic doesn't equal cruel. Loses are meaningless if they weren't realistic. I wouldn't like it even if all of them were killed illogically. But I hate it when they do somethings extremely unrealistic.
37:08 Although I'm sure it's not the only reason, I think _part_ of why you feel this way is because you're bingeing the show, and you're so into the spectacle that you have a blind spot for what's not working. When one watches the show week to week and takes the time to think it over and engage with the discourse around each episode, you're far more likely to see the gaping problems.
Not long ago, I binge-watched *_The Good Wife_* for the first time. After a couple of seasons, I started reading reviews after every 1 or 2 episodes on the AV Club. They made me realize something that I had yet to pick up, which is that 2 main characters who interacted all the time in the past, had stopped interacting after 10+ episodes, because allegedly, the actors couldn't stand each other anymore. Once I noticed it, I couldn't unsee it, and indeed it caused a lot of narrative issues. I had felt that the quality had gone down past S5, but I missed a lot of the signs, in part because I was bingeing, but probably also because I was watching it for the first time, and wasn't engaging in deep critical thought after every episode.
This is very true, I notice people who binge watched the show don't have much of a problem with the final 2 seasons and I think one of the main reasons is the amount of time we waited between seasons. Especially the 2 years between S7&8, most people were already disappointed with S7 so to get those final 6 episodes we got in S8 just felt like a major insult. The community aspect around a show is a big factor too, like you point out, and GOT's community aspect online was huge at the time. Engaging in the discussion of the show or even just reading it after the fact can definitely change your watching experience of a show. For me I've found it's best to stay out of fandom discussion places because more often than not it ruins my watching experience of the show. Especially when there are fan wars or "teams" that everyone fights over. It's so exhausting when you just wanna discuss something you enjoy.
If someone's already going in with a negative attitude and has nothing better to do you mean. I watched the show an episode a week and a season a year back then and I didn't notice most of the flaws people pointed out (as far as that's even actually what they are, I mean). The point of a show is to be enjoyed and if it manages to do that, logic flaws / plotholes or not, it can't actually be that bad or (!) badly written, can it? (Especially (!) if people binging it as one, minus the ridiculously high anticiparion and expectations it couldn't possibly live up to, are obviously enjoying it MORE!)
@@janhommer Something can be bad and still be enjoyable (see Sharknado). That doesn't make it not bad.
@@Golladan Actually, it "kinda" does, yes (I mean, people are even discussing whether one should keep calling "The Room" a bad movie when so many people enjoy it so much and that's pretty much the most extreme example of "so bad it's good" one could think of; the fact that it's unintentionally (!) one of the most hilarious comedies doesn't mean that's not what it is; had Monty Python done something like that, people would have unironically praised it as hilarious). I mean how the f do you define "bad" in a movie / TV show if not as a lack of enjoyabilty, doesn't really make sense. Don't tell me it's 'cause it's got plot holes, as if you don't find those in pretty much every show / movie (if you don't have anything better to do than actively look for them). And all that's not even taking into account that they're by no means enjoying it in a "so bad it's good" kind of way, as unintenitonally funny or something, but are genuinely intrigued by the plot, the twists etc., so...
@@janhommer I mean, "so bad it's good" is still bad. It's right there in the name.
I guess it's all subjective. So what makes something good or bad?
I’ve been enjoying this watch through but not sure I can stomach these last couple seasons again. Just too heartbreaking what they did to the greatest show to ever exist.
You are soo VERY arrogant. The ending makes TOTAL sense and the show was working to that end from the FRIST episode. You are just too butthurt that YOUR favorite didn't become King. That is arrogance at it highs!!
"what they did to the greatest show to ever exist."
lol. even if GOT maintained its quality from early seasons, it's not close to the greatest show to ever exist. one of those actually greatest shows will be what they're replacing GOT with, and then they'd know what a top quality show is like.
@@rudy_4ierif it maintained its quality from after the 5th season, it absolutely would be the best show ever created
@@skeeyee1643 not even close. take the series they're choosing to replace with GOT next for example, Breaking Bad.
even season 4 or season 5 of Breaking Bad alone is way beyond GOT seasons 1-4 combined, and I say that as someone who loved GOT seasons 1-4.
@@rudy_4ier I love breaking bad and as a whole it’s def better but their peaks are just as good. Also The Sopranos is better than Breaking Bad imo
“The ice was breaking cause my mans balls were dropping on it” just caught this during my second time watching this video haha…
You guys crack me up! Love your channel. Good luck and be well ♥️✌🏻♥️
This episode is such a weird peice of TV. Every aspect of this episode is amazing.. outside of the clear "Why!?". It's shot amazingly/the cgi is stunning/the acting is amazing/the music is perfect.. But none of this makes any logical sense, from Gendry who's never been in a cold climate all his life able to run that distance back in that time.. Danny getting the raven, then flying in record speed, and also having cold resistance that high up in the air.. To the clear there's 0 point in doing this.. I think the show needed a big action set piece for the season to close so they were pushed into doing something stupid to apease the network. And to be fair aside from episode 9 of season 1, they have done the epic battle for almost every season. The biggest reason I want to see the books finished is to see what GRRM does in this section of the story.. I assume the ending will be very similar, but this part is so fucking random and out of place.
I promise you that this "mission" will never be in the books :)
To appease the network? Mate, the network and everyone else would've loved to have more seasons and more episodes, it was completely Benioff & Weiss who were done with the show and wanted to move on to other things (well good luck, who wants them now?). They wanted to get to the end so everything happens in 2x speed and any pesky logic that would slow things down or make things impossible is thrown away.
@@mvprime8 It's far more complicated than that. Likely started during season 4, and we saw it in season 5. Season 7/8 were just an extention of the issues starting way back.
A network wanting more episodes/seasons isn't always a good thing. D&D are at fault for part of this, but they also brought us seasons 1-4. Which are incredible seasons. The books were still in play during season 5, so the books running out isn't the issue.
@@Fauss I think we'll have another reason for them to either be at the wall, or go over it. Since Danny losing one of her Dragons and becoming an ice dragon seems like something GRRM would write
@@traviscue2099 I mostly defend the show from the haters but this episode does seem to have been written to answer someones question of "How do we give the Night King a dragon?". If the books eventually have a dragon turn this way, I hope it is made a little less obvious.
One of the costliest writing holes
Dragons don’t go beyond the wall :(
The plot armor was shining strong in this one! 🤺
I found you two not long ago and I have to say watching GoT through your eyes is an absolute joy and a lot of laughs (and tears Pudgey!!). I haven't reached this point yet; just started S5, but I wanted to hopefully have you two see this comment and know that you're doing a fab job, love you two, can't wait to catch up to where you are now in the postings.
thank you! we are glad you're enjoying along with us 🙏🏼
Ooooyayyy! The portals appeared.
I can't lie. I am loving all the complaints coming about the nonsense that was the last two seasons in particular. Dan and Dave really rushed this like idiots.
This has been debunked actually. The production wasn't rushed. What you're trying to say is that the pacing of the plot was too fast but it has nothing to do with rushed production.
@@OswinPond If the production wasn't rushed then the writing certainly was.
@@ARD-lk5pr The writing is part of the production. The pacing is too fast is the word you're looking for
@@OswinPond No it isn't. Yes the pacing was also too fast but this was symptomatic of the writing being rushed in the first place. Obviously there had to be a reason why the pacing was too fast! Most likely because the writing was rushed...What other reason is there?
@@ARD-lk5pr bad writting lol
Yes, thank you so much Daenerys for trying to save Jon, we lost Vizerion and thanks to Tyrion's master plan.
Don’t agree with the guys perspective on Dany not listening to Tyrion. She literally just lost her two major territories and allies, and he broke her trust. Different motives for each character and it’s uneasy listening to criticism toward a woman who achieved so much without these male advisors who can’t separate their personal motives from their actual jobs…
Just noticing the pattern of bashing Dany in almost all of the reaction videos. It feels a little misogynistic.
I hated the fight between Sansa and Arya. Arya was being so petty imo, acting like they're still children with season one issues. She talks about Sansa standing there in that pretty dress and betraying their family- she didn't do anything to save their dad either. Both were children and helpless. And Arya literally served under Tywin herself. Why? Because she did it to survive, just like Sansa in King's Landing. It just gave me whiplash when it made both sisters act like they did in season one, when we know just how far they've both come.
35:08 _Dany taking Jon’s hand is also a nice moment that would have worked really well had their mutual attraction been depicted with anything like consistency. You can see the concept here. On Dany’s part, of all her suitors, Jon’s the only one who has any idea what the dragons mean to her, so he’s the only one who can comfort her in her grief; on Jon’s part, he finally sees that Dany really would put everything aside to save the realm, and with this all the barriers between them are down. The patchy leadup robs this moment of the support it needed._ *-TURTLE PACED*
The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
Take a shot everytime "this ripped me", "what a legend", and "what a weapon" is said. hahaha
Bro it’s so funny how Spartan got so offended when Dani said he was too small for her 😂
He must really be the biggest Jon snow fan ever😂
Yeah it was a very weird line to put in the script. Kit is 5' 8". And Dany was with Drogon and Dario before so I get it but what a strange line.
@@Hollygli Well, yeah... 5'8" is small for a full grown man. Especially when Dany's first love was as massive as Drogo.
@@ms_scribbles it's actually not the average height for men in the US is lower than 5'8 lol
@@hokagedlo6133 That's not true. Average height for males in the US is 5'9". Any way you cut it, Jon Snow is a little fella. Look at his interactions in season 1 with a real man: Jamie Lannister. Jamie dwarfs over him. No woman would take Jon Snow over the likes of Jamie Lannister, Khal Drogo, Daario Naharis (either actor), or even an aging Jorah Mormont.
Regardless of whether you think Dany is pretty or not, she is at the top of the social structure and as such has many extraordinary well-endowed suitors. She doesn't need to settle for average much less below average.
@@jesses5463 It was definitely a weird comment. Jon Snow is not a short character in canon. While book Jon Snow is still young and growing (I believe he is only 16 or 17 when he is stabbed at the end of Book 5?), he is never described as particularly small for his age. In fact, the only mention I remember regarding his height is that he is taller than Robb but skinnier, and both of them are shorter than Joffrey when Joff visits Winterfell.
As far as the show goes, with camera angles and other aspects of "film magic," etc., most show fans had not really noticed that Kit was particularly short.
So it was definitely noteworthy to me and most of my friends and family, who were book fans before the show started airing and who had been watching since S1E1. As the later seasons were airing, we had several conversations about how it felt like D&D couldn't resist taking digs at Kit, constantly writing dialogue that picked at his height or his "little pecker" or anything they could make fun of.
To the point where it felt cruel. Like bullying.
It's no wonder that Kit had mental health issues by the end of the show.
Nice that she doesnt get frostbites or freeze flying in air fast speed that must be extremely cold....
"That must be the quickest raven evah! " legit made me laugh 😅 Yup, Spartan, it was an equivalent of an Email. Oh, and it gets even better then that, just you wait! 😁😁
This isn't 24. Not every second is on screen.
@@orphanedhanyou Its generaly agreed that the last few season become incredibly badly written, contrived and nonsensical. And even if that raven flew for several days off screen, it makes even less sense, as it would mean the crew up there behind the Wall stood on that frozen lake and fought zombies for weaks, or a full month or so untill the Dragons got up there. No food, no warmth, no sleap. Its so riddiculous I can hardly believe it even now 😅
I agree with every criticism of the writing but there is one major issue that few people ever mention....Cersei cannot be trusted under any circumstances.
Even if she knew about the white walkers, you can't trust Cersei anyway - which makes this entire plan/plot completely pointless and stupid.
This is point where D&D proved they didn't care anymore.
This is the point fans think every single second was shown on screen, that just because dragons didn't cross the wall in the books means they CAN'T vs the dragons REFUSED to go, that riverbanks are always shallow, that armor weighs hundreds of pounds, these 'fans' ARE IDIOTS.
The books left off when Dany was backing to Meeren after her first ride on a dragon.
There was a book before GOT called the Ice dragon. By GEORGE R MARTIN.
Once Danny went with her dragons to save them, I knew what was coming. Heart breaking
in the books the dragons cannot pass north beyond the wall
Earlier Seasons weren't full of "cruelty" like Spartan said. They were full of REALISM when it came to the jeopardy that the Characters were in. Remember how KHAL DROGO died...from an infection after purposefully pushing himself millimetres too far into a blade!
Also, no-one disregards the fact that episodes like this are entertaining, especially first time round whilst not thinking, however, episodes like this broke Game of Thrones own in-universe rules in a plentitude of ways:-
- One such thing, as many will point out - FAST TRAVEL. It took from multiple episodes to multiple years for people like Arya & The Hound to travel short distances compared to those travelled in this episode. Also, what these final 2 Seasons entail in terms of travel is that everyone gets to their destination before they entertain any jeopardy, whereas things could and often did go wrong DURING the journey from one place to the next. That's totally gone now.
- They used to follow the amazing writing rule of "SHOW, DONT TELL" when it comes to characters falling in love. You could feel Jon & Ygritte's chemistry through the screen, the little looks they gave each other, we all knew they loved each other before Orell ever even asked Ygritte if she did. Now they just "TELL, DON'T SHOW "...
You could take Cersei's question to Brienne about if she loves Jaime or not out of the show and 99% of people would categorically tell you that Jaime and Brienne are in love with each other & they've never once uttered those words. It's all been SHOWN via interactions, conversations, little looks here and there etc.
Take Davos and Tyrion's scenes where they're TELLING Jon & Dany that they're in to each other & making it obvious that they're gonna fuck, out of the show and you'll see that Jon & Dany haven't shown a single iota of chemistry between themselves or that they like each other. You'd fully think they actually quite hate each other and are reluctantly working together so Jon can get his Dragonglass mined.
All-in-all, I don't wanna keep going on, but I could point out a lot of other things (like the fact that Sansa never gave Jon the option of Littlefinger's army even when he explicitly asked her "THEN WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE ME DO?" But blames him for "not listening to her" and Jon never has pushback against that 🤦). These really push towards this episode and others in this Season & Next not being "amazing writing" or a "masterpiece" like Spartan exclaimed. Especially comparing to Hardhome which is one of the most perfect episodes in TV History. This may have been exciting but it's an insult to say it's on par with Hardhome lol.
"this episode was a 10/10 masterpiece" - both of them
it's a shame to think they're reacting to Breaking Bad next. they don't deserve to watch a show that's actually that good lol. they should stick to action stuff or marvel or something simple like this.
This was the episode where the wheels really started falling off for me - the writer's corner cutting just to hit a bunch of plot points within the limited number of episodes they forced HBO to buy became clearly evident.
THIS!
they said the long night was a perfect episode as well, I corrected them on patreon wth everything wrong with the episode and they even admitted that i was correct about the issues
Spot on.
Arya and the viewers forget that Sansa was imprisoned in the Red Keep. She played courtesies to try and bargain for her father's life . She had no protectors at all.
Sorry Spartan but Jon did loose the battle hahaha it’s okay to admit that
Remember this, Dany agreed to help jon without him bendig the knee
Jon decided to bend the knee
Remember this... They are going to shape this as if Dany forced jon to bend the knee so she would help him
That she cares about the throne more , meanwhile she abandoned that quest & went north to fight the others, tried to take it peacefully & didn't rush it
But d&d try so hard to twist it
Especially in how Sam talks abt it w' jon
Right, all the things they did to make Danny look so bad ruined the show writing, even others characteres had their story changed to something that doesn't make sense
Nah, they won't. Apparently they think it makes sense that she snapped because "that is the Targaryen way" and "Rhaenyra had that same look in her eye after they killed her son" 😂😂😂 At least that's what they said in the livestream. I bet Spartan will be PISSED because Jon wasn't named King, but that's about the extent of it.
172 years before Daenerys targaryen. Don't forget GRRM loves this character she is the prince and the books will do her justice
@hokagedlo6133 Her story in the show will be the same in the books. Hopefully, it's done better, but that was Martin's ending. All the main things that happened in the end came from him. Unless he's rewriting it based on people's response, which I doubt, she will go mad queen in the book.
I hear you. Yes, she did. And because she saw the wights herself, she sees the bigger threat. But once that's accomplished she 100% pivots back to her blind ambition. I think Dany snapping at the end and burning all of KL (these are not spoilers since they've watched the whole series) and then saying to her armies that they're going to do the same to Winterfell & all of Westeros makes no sense. BUT let's not pretend that she wasn't totally focused on sitting on the iron throne. Her feeling threatened but Jon was absolutely believable.
the dispense of logic is epic.
So many complaints are so easily explained away.
some things about viserion's death:
1) dany was using his colours (viserion was known as the "white dragon")
2) Rhaegal and viserion spent much of their time together and when viserion falls, the other follows him almost until the ground
3) although drogon didn't spent so much time lately with his brothers, his scream when viserion was shot was painfull to watch
I remember yelling at the hound after he threw the second rock lmao I was like noooooooo
Pudgey @ 20:33 Look how dark it is.
Miguel Sapochnik: I was born in it, molded by it.
12:11 I think it’s absolutely fair to say Jon lost the battle of the bastards. “He put in the work” - yeah, unnecessarily. He jumped the gun. Sansa begged him to hold back and wait and he stubbornly refused and got himself in that mess that the Knights of the Vale had to bail him out of. All because he refused to listen to Sansa. Jon has had many accomplishments but that battle was probably his biggest failure.
Jon was not "stubborn" and he did not "refuse to wait" to start the battle. He has absolutely no reason to wait, because Sansa was being deceptive. He literally asked her where he could get the extra men he needed, and she bare lied to his face. All you Sansa-shippers, answer me this - if she won the BoB _despite_ Jon's actions, why hadn't she called up the Knights of the Vale and got the win beforehand?
Spartan be like "OH MY GOD! I LOVE DANY!!!"
Pudgey be like "Mmm hmmm"
I'm one of the few who love Season 7, 8, and the ending. It's a bit rushed here and there with some convenient plot devices, but as a whole it's great. Season 7 and 8 are kind of the 'third act' like you'd see in a movie, where it is more action-oriented and full of big moments. The pacing as a whole, from Season 1-8, is great in my opinion. People get too worked up.
I agree. There are definitely some criticisms to be had in the last few seasons, but to be fair, there are criticisms to be had in all the seasons. But no one wants to talk about those. The show isn’t perfect (it never was), but I still enjoyed myself all the way through.
The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
I love how the nightking found giants chains out of nowhere
THANK YOU FOR yet another awesome reaction! When Spartan said "I wish I could cry" I felt that 😂 I also really enjoyed the zoom in edits, it felt hilarious for some reason.
31:04 I understand that you want to see Jon on the dragon, but Rhaegal would never come back for him, he has no connection with Jon. Remember that dragons don't form a bond with a human simply because they have Targaryen blood. Drogon didn't immediately allow Daenerys to ride him. D&D kinda forgot about it in the next seasons 🫠