Botched refueling ends up in disaster at Las Cruces Airport, New Mexico - Golden Eagle N51RX
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- An Air Ambulance Cessna 421C with a medical crew and one patient, destined for Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, couldn't make the journey because of a very inconceivable mistake. Don't forget to sub and like for more videos!
This is becoming my favorite aviation incident channel. This guy could have uploaded one of the dozens of incidents that every single channel covers and probably gotten more views. In the short term.
In the long term he will do as well as any of them because of covering crashes such as this one.
Spare me another deep dive into Tenerife, AA 191 or JAL 123. I’ve seen enough. Show me something new. Like this one.
Agreed,, I like these short sharp vids which tell us in the title or early on what caused the crash, I rarely watch any long rambling vids where we have to skip to the end to find out what the cause of the crash was.
This video struck awfully close to home with me! As a young copilot for the Swiss Regional airline Crossair we used 412C's on some of our thinner routes. On one very hot day in July, we had to fuel up in Milan Malpensa before flying to Lugano Switzerland, which was just a short hop of 20 minutes. While the captain was in the FBO, I was preparing the cockpit and studying the passenger manifest, when I watched the fuel truck pull up to our Golden Eagle. Since I was studiying the all the papers and manifests, I looked outside the window and it took a few seconds until the glaring sign on the fueling truck's side registered in my brain: It read Jet A-1!!! Well, I must have broken the world speed record for the time it takes to leave the cockpit, running back along the cabin and jumping out of the aircraft to yell at the fueler to immediately stop the process. Alas there must have been already a good 100 liters of Jet A-1 in the one tank by then. After I finished yelling at the fueler I asked him how in heck he started filling this airplane wit A-1?? His answer, hold your breath, was: "but it says turbo power on the side of the engine nacelle!".. I was speechless. We then proceeded to empty this tank and thoroughly flush it of any residue of Jet A-1. Hadn't I seen this I wouldn't be relating this story today... But there for the grace of God went I plus the captain plus the passengers.. This still sends a shiver down my spine... Half a year later we transferred to turbine airplanes, namely the famous Metro III and later the SAAB SF-340.
Why is the nose so long on this model?
@@stevehuffman1495 There are some Systems, the nosewheel well, the heat exchanger, plus a quite useful baggage compartment. It still is one very fine airplane! HTH Charles
Not a pilot, but old mechanic, a half gallon of kero in the gas would clean all the carbon off the valves and piston crown. In your car. What do A&P mechs do? Think Walter Matthau.
Sir, I am not a pilot, but I have watched many videos of plane crashes. So that makes me 😅 *informed* idiot, I have watched enough videos to know the three key words: aviate, navigate, communicate. One airflight video channel owner(1) has advised that if the pilot had simply flown the plane straight ahead it would not have stalled and crashed. He has also mentioned numerous times about how difficult turning back to the airport can be. I don’t know what to say about the right engine, but do you think that if he had simply prepared to land on that flat area it would’ve worked out? Thanks for the video.
(1) Dan Gryder, experienced pilot and owner of *Probable Cause,* on RUclips
@@charlesschneiter5159 So your in the cockpit doing a check list? Before the aircraft is fueled
Fly the aircraft.all the way into the crash landing, per Bob Hoover. Loss of thrust does not equate to a stall. That is pilot error. He was surrounded by flat desert. Plenty of space to land, nose down, straight ahead, per Dan Grider, "Probable Cause." So sad, a mid-time pilot with no understanding of physics.
Thank you. I was just about to point out that this stall was entirely voluntary. Perhaps their patient was in critical condition? Well guess what? Now they're all dead.
Dan Gryder is a law suit loser. And obnoxious.
The stall happened because the pilot was pulling back on the yoke to cover more ground.
Good call. Also, a 421 had GITSO 520Ms.
The graphic showed a C-402. Not a big deal, the C-421 has rounded windows as it’s pressured and the engines have a bulge in the front as there is a reduction gear up there. Just for information.
I'm a pilot and losing an engine or engines does NOT mean you will end up in a stall !!
Exactly!
"The low altitude and slow speed of the aircraft prevented the pilot from maneuvering to prevent it from entering the imminent stall" ... This is total B.S. ... A stall is 99% sudden death at low altitude... Any pilot with a lick of common sense would prevent a stall at low altitude at all cost. Even a rough crash landing at least has a chance of survival. Allowing the plane to stall at low altitude is just plain stupid... low altitude did NOT prevent the pilot from maneuvering ... Whoever wrote this text is or should not be piloting a plane anytime soon ....
You are correct!
And level the wings
Yes, any kid on a computer flight sim knows that if there's a sudden loss of power you should push the nose down to maintain airspeed and glide straight ahead into the nearest open space.
It's because using the ailerons in a turn messes up the airflow over the inside wing which is always the one that stalls.
That terrain looked pretty good for an emergency landing.
@@tungstenkid2271 In airplane wing design, the wing root (nearest the fuselage) always stalls first then progresses to the wing tip as the angle of attack increases. It's called washout. That still allows roll control with the ailerons up until the whole wing stalls. Then it's all over.
Absolutely no reason to stall the aircraft. It's called down elevator. As a flight instructor I had a private pilot I was checking out stall an aircraft on a go around by only using half throttle. I sat up so fast and jammed the throttle in and pushed the carb heat off at the same time with my pinky. I then pushed the nose to the ground and leveled off at 2-3 feet above the ground, built up speed and climbed out. Never waste time on the radio until the situation is totally under control. There is not a damn thing the controllers can do to help you, the load is on you. Professional pilots should spend at least an hour a day reading the NTSB reporter and become familiar with all the things that can go wrong. I did that everyday for 2 hours. I would read a story of a crash, then sit there with my eyes closed imagining what I would do in the same circumstance. It paid off in spades as I found myself in a similar situation and got myself out of it.
This strikes close to home for me. I used to be a flight medic. That reg number looks very familiar. I may have either been on that A/C or met it before. Our program sustained a loss of a BK-117. Pilot switched to a dry tank. Auto-rotated into the ground. No loss of life, but pilot was in rehabilitation for months afterwards finally gaining the ability to walk again. One reason I left that field was there are way too many programs willing to fly in weather that is below minimums. Hospitals don't help. They do what we called "helicopter shopping". Weather bad?? Keep calling until one accepts. Pilots may sometimes be forced (either by the program or self-forced) into accepting a mission in bad weather due to patient aquity. The pilot should think only of crew safety, not completing the mission at any cost. Any crew member in a properly run program should have the ability to say NO to the mission. You have to think of weather where you are at, where you are picking up, at you destination and everywhere in-between. There have been missions where we were picking up and weather closed in. Sometimes we would call the local EMS to transport us to our destination and the pilot would wait out the weather. It sucks to go into I-IFR. Easy to lose situational awareness and make a CFIT, strike a tower or power cable. I've lost too many of my EMS family. We have to remember that we did not make the patient sick and crashing does not make them better. Old saying "There are old pilots, there are bold pilots. But there are no old bold pilots." There is no room for cowboys here. My 2¢.
There are many old bold pilots. Military, crop dusters, Bush pilots. But There are no Stupid old bold pilots..
The fueler should have been charged with involuntary manslaughter, 3 counts.
Why?
@@davidsmiths5471 He is trained to NOT make this mistake. I fueled aircraft for 5 years and had a close one but caught it in time. The aircraft fuel tank was not properly labeled.
@@arnenelson4495 Everyone makes mistakes! You almost did and you are blaming the labeling! The FBO and pilot dropped the ball on this tragic day!
@@davidsmiths5471
Because u can LOOK at the plane and kno it is NOT a jet nor a turbo prop , DOES NOT take jet fuel.
Anyone that clueless shud not be allowed to work in aviation.
@@michaelmoon8856 I hope your not on any flight line with that type of thought process! See a person that uses common sense in their everyday life! Would know ANY DOUBTS about which fuel goes into anybodies aircraft! Would ask the person or wait till they were present!
40 gallons is not enough for 3 hours of flight, must have had another 40 gallons already onboard
That was what I thought too!
Maybe 40 per side
The fueler claimed that fuel type was not specified??? Geezuschryst, what the phuck are the hiring standards at this FBO?
DEI baby DEI....get ready for more. The Jet A nozzle doesn't fit into the Avgas fuel filler receiver. In order to get that fuel in that plane he, or she would have had to go slow holding the filler nozzle out almost pouring it and aiming. Seriously dumb...I worked line in high school then in Santa monica...this happened to a plane at Supermarine Aviation there filled by one of the old timer fuel guys. Crazy.
$15 and hour refuelers are supposed to know what kind of fuel each aircraft should take?
Including conversions?
It is the pilot's responsibility to specify the fuel type and quantify, and make very sure that he got what he ordered, and that the fuel caps are in place.
Geezuschryst, Mark is a phucking fool. Not a (good?) pilot.
Reply
@@Ackermanmedia Was this refueler a DEI hire?
Geezuschryst, what the phuck are the hiring standards at this charter company that allows their aircraft to be refueled without pilot supervision.
Was the pilot a DEI hire, he failed to supervise the fueling of his plane, Is he now a dead DEI hire?
DEI hires are not required to know the difference between jet fuel and av gas.
Wasp pilots are required to not trust GED work.
This is on the FBO
Can't tell.
The aircraft depicted in this video is a Cessna 402C powered by Continental TSIO 520 VB engines. When an aircraft stalls it referring to the wing not the engine.
My heart especially goes out to the family of the patient that perished in this incident. May you eventually find peace of mind. It may take a while, but you will find it if you seek it.❤
The same thing happened back in'91 where a CV-240D was fueled with Jet-A instead of 100LL. It was fueled by my old Supervisor of a FBO at CAK. It made it a about a 1/4 mile off of the end of RWY 19 before impact, no fatalities. I was able to walk up to the wreckage still smoldering. Company went out of business.
Did the pilot confirm that the aircraft was properly fueled?
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky He signed off on the ticket but the lawsuit killed the company.
@@williampeel3688 The pilot signed off that he got the correct fuel?
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky Yep, the receptionist gave him the ticket. He signed and paid for the fuel. Should have paid attention as at the time there was big price difference between 100LL and Jet-A.
@@williampeel3688 He paid with his life.
i like the reading better than AI voice and background music ill be back...
I heard there's a saying among military jet pilots as they walk out to their planes for takeoff-- "Today is the day I'll have to eject" which gets them into the right mindset of not leaving it too late to punch out.
Likewise prop-plane pilots could adopt the same mindset (especially twin-engine pilots) by thinking as they walk out to their planes- "Today is the day my engine will quit on me" to mentally prepare themselves.
I lived in Las Cruces at the time. Negligence and incompetence seem rampant in the work force there. Sad that people died 😢
I worked the flight line at a small FBO back in the 70s, we had everything from C150s, Piper Navajos, up to MU2s, Sabreliners, King Airs, etc.
My team and I were always cognizant of never making this mistake.
It's unforgivable.
Who is responsible for order the correct fuel type?
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky
The pilot flying the airplane is responsible, but we were pretty airplane knowledgeable and we could discern between a piston engine and a turbine engine.
The trick and I worked the line at Midway airport in Chicago for 46 years,retired in 2016, turn the prop,if there is resistance your a recip engine,if the prop moves freely,it’s a turbine!
@@rocketman4438 Your pimply faced new hires?
Keep your hands off the propellor.
“Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect” - Captain Alfred G. Lamplugh
Many many years ago I was a line boy. We never put fuel in anything without written orders or the pilot standing there.
As it should be.
Really ,find that hard to believe!
@@davidsmiths5471 If the pilot was not there they had to place the order through he front desk who filled out an order sheet which was passed to us. Probably not so much to make sure the right fuel but to make sure the front desk got paid.
We did have an incident with a corporate jet that did not get the prist order right and that caused some problems so they were real careful about fuel orders..
@@jamess5154 This happened by poor training and management of the FBO!
@@jamess5154 So as an expert FBO person, why didnt anybody question why prist was not order? Any your also saying you or anybody has never refueled an aircraft with out someone watching!
DEI hired ramp rat ?
ANY fueler not adequately trained and supervised know by the appearance of the aircraft what type of fuel should be used is danger and the pilot should monitor closely. I had a fueler at oil to my Cessna 206 on day years ago and the idiot forgot to put the dipstick back in place. I was an idiot for not check that the cap was secure and took off. Eventually oil started stream out of the engine cowling. I turned around and landed immediately. A preflight walk around is not complete unless you check for what a fueler or mechanic has done to your aircraft. Never assume that they know what they are doing. Ever!
I don't think DEI was a thing in 2014.. The onus of this accident is squarely on the captain. He was onsite for fuelling and he let the plane fall out of the sky.
That was not supposed to happen, due to changes made after the 1970 Air Acres Martin 404 crash in Atlanta.
Warning labels were made mandatory, and jet fuel nozzles are designed not to fit in Avgas receptacles.
But it still happens.
So then you would think it's the company doing the refueling and training
In the US, things may be different now: the Jet Fuel nozzle is like a duck bill; it can NOT fit into a AvGas filler neck. The Jet Fuel nozzle is too big.
It depends on the age of the aircraft as Corvair had huge fueling necks. Some were converted to turbo props but you just can't miss a huge radial engine and cowl with oil leaks. I was an Avionics Tech for Prowlers in the '80s and our first deployment we had both piston and jets. Second deployment and the piston CODs were gone.
Nothing like having avg gas next to 2 million gallons of JP-4
The closest thing similar in my life was when a gas station attendant filled my 70 something Oldsmobile diesel with gasoline. I caught the mistake barely as I saw the attendant hang up the nozzle. They drained the tank and schooled the attendant. The gas filler tube says "diesel fuel only" and I was in the "diesel only" lane. Diesel Olds sedans were new and not usual.
There is nothing in the accident report that indicates a stall/spin.
The aircraft was in a generally eastbound direction and level when it hit the ground. Consistent with a takeoff from RWY 26.
It turned over and caught fire when impacting the ground.
It sounds more like an emergency landing and then they hit something that inverted and smashed up the aircraft with a rapid post crash fire when fuel hit the overhead engines.
The only pilot mistake I cans see is failing to check what fuel you got.
The FBO had not fitted the recommended larger nozzle and it sounds in the report like the fuel guy had inadequate training for the job and was the only one on duty.
Very realistic visuals. Thanks
@@mendel5106 except for the refueling truck! Would have been in front or back of the aircraft to be refueled
@@davidsmiths5471 I was talking in general compared to other channels. Take a deep breath 🫁
Absolutely heart breaking!
Terrific animation..!
Wow! Still hard to understand how this can happen! Godspeed to those who perished 🙏
May the families of the crew have at least some solice that they perished helping others❤❤❤
That was really sad and horrible! RIP everyone.
Was the fuel/gas cap placard in english?what kind of knuckleheads are they hiring to fuel planes,jets,helicopters out in New Mexico?
Don't know how you can even put a jetA nozzle into that type of aircraft!
I learned to fly at Las Cruces. On the hot days you had to think light thoughts to get the C-152 off the ground (it seemed).
Oh this is So Sad
R.I.P. to All the Poor Souls on Board 🌹
Same thing happened to Bob Hoover and his Shrike Commander.
But Bob Hoover and his Shrike Commander didn't stall and spin into the ground. 😉😇😀
It wasn't a very inconceivable mistake. I didn't even have to hit play to guess that they got a load of Jet A in the tanks. "Botched refueling" was all I needed to see.
Back in the days before self-service took over service stations, a guy drove into my uncle's Texaco station with a car that sounded like Tito Puente was banging the timbales under the hood. He refueled at a station up the road, and the attendant evidently mistook the kerosene pump for the regular one.
Eighty Deuce
Nice work on the video...
Had a 421c Golden Eagle which is distinguished by a hump on top of cowling because it is a geared engine. I think this might be a 414. Regardless, with over 500 hours in 421, I never let my plane or BH-206 Jet Ranger be fueled unless I observed…..yes, even in snow or rain.
The black smoke was a dead giveaway. Also, I realize it’s a computer generated video but Pilot never feathered first failed engine. Always observe fueling.
Even though Jet-A was in the fuel tanks, there was just enough avgas in the fuel lines to get the aircraft into trouble before the jet-A shut the engines down. It still might have been a survivable incident. Interstate 10 was available as well as a frontage road along the interstate. Returning to the airport on one engine was a viable action. But when the 2nd engine failed, abort that option and land "straight ahead". The airport is on the north side of I-10 and the crash site is on the south side of I-10. With that, I'm thinking that I-10 and the frontage road might have been the best option even though a potential hazard with a power line cutting across the landing area of the roadways. But with all post accident comments, hindsight is 20/20. My IP drilled into me that total engine failure shortly after takeoff is always lower the nose and land "straight ahead", never return to the airport. Fly the aircraft.
great animation, the re-feuler should have seen props on the engine as he pulled next to it.
Really
What's really neat ! You are clueless! If a DC-3 or B-29 lands at a FBO explain how you refuel them??
@@davidsmiths5471 Why am I clueless, the NTSB concluded the wrong fuel was installed, and cap was labelled for avgas.
@@tombeck2792 I understand all that! You stated the props? Now answer my Dc-3 B-29 question!
Psssst, your ignorance is showing. Piper's newest trainer uses jet fuel. Not to mention thousands of of turboprops. You would refuel based on props? You are a fool.
it can happens to anyone, but as a pilot double and triple checking it s so crucial , but unfortunately lot of pilots so call "experience " makes the style of fatal mistake. On the ground I know ppl put in their cars diesel instead a average gas , when only requieres normal , this is the first time I heard about this type of massive mistake.
Continental, not Lycoming.
This was an entirely survivable incident. (yes, I am a multiengine pilot, yes I am qualified to comment, Yes, I have flown 421's.).
The aircraft should not have "stalled" unless the pilot tried to stretch the glide and lost too much energy and got too slow.. Better to land under control off airport than to lose all ability to fly at too low a speed , lose control, and crash.
ALWAYS watch them refuel., always make sure it is the proper fuel, always sample the fuel after refueling. Any one of those would have caught the error.
This was a failure on the pilot.
You are a qualified to comment if you have survived a similar accident.
Yea, easy to blame a dead pilot! The idiot who was refueling should be able to read - or was this a case of employing someone who could not read English in NM? It will take a lot to convince me the pilot was there when the refueling was taking place - watching in other words! This more seems like a blame the pilot as he cannot contradict the technician and they do not want to accept liability, at any cost!
WOW
The pilot in command (PIC) is ALWAYS the first, last and only person in charge of the aircraft and its safe operation. He can deligate tasks but the pilot retains responsibility to ensure it's done properly.
@@danburch9989 So what's your point?
@@davidsmiths5471 The pilot shifted the responsibility of getting the correct fuel to the lineboy and he assumed the lineboy put in the correct fuel
@@danburch9989 So you skip the the FBO that trains the line person and their supervision that tragic day! An FBO that has safe guards in place ,this never happens! Correct nozzles,signage on every truck! Trucks parked in different areas! The list is long
When I was in flight training back in the ‘90s at Las cruces with VY flying club we had a student pilot miscalculate his fuel consumption coming back from Arizona . We found him bout 15 miles west of LRU , he managed to find a dirt road to set down on but hit a berm & flipped the plane on its back . Student was humiliated but fine. Flying was simpler & way less expensive back then .
This identical situation happened here in Spokane with a craft from Canada being refueled at SFF. Instead of 100 LL avgas, the FBO goofball put jet fuel in. The craft departed SFF on 22R, losing power shortly after and crashing and killing the sole occupant and pilot. The craft, a Piper PA46-350 was destroyed on Feb 22, 2015
The goofball pilot is responsible for what is aboard their aircraft.
Who trained the goofball?
if i wanted to read about it i would buy the book
1. Any fuel truck driver worthy of the title needs little more than a glance at the engine nacelles to know its NOT a jet.
2. The last statement (The low altitude and slow speed...) was written by someone who knows nothing about flying airplanes... get the nose down (keep it above VS) keep the wings level as possible, fly it to the crash site. Simple.
The pilot is responsible for aircraft safety. That's it. He should have inspected the fuel supply on delivery. He was responsible for the aircraft and the passengers. RIP
If you leave an aircraft on any FBO they are responsible for that aircraft
@@davidsmiths5471 The pilot has the primary responsibility for what is in the tanks. Be it Jet A, AvGas, water or air.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky Please explain how's that actually works if the pilot is not there!
The refueling truck operator should have also noticed the label and refrain from pumping the jet fuel, he well knew was being transported.
So then actually the company is at fault and the FBO!
I’ve never heard of, in 35 years of flying, about a pilot NOT stipulating the type of fuel in a fuel order, regardless of how obvious the type requirement might be. I guess, my point is, I doubt that the pilot didn’t state the type…but he’s not here to refute the fueler’s claim.
Just curious, so you never came into an FBO late ,parked your plane, and just said give 30 a side and kept going??
The different filler neck size prevents filling jet fuels into an ac gas openings. The fueling contractor had a fueling contract with the military to fuel their airplanes. They do not have that safety measure built in. That made possible to dispense jet fuel into an av gas tank. They lost the fueling contract
So that's on the FBO!
The aircraft shown is a Cessna 402C, not a Cessna 421C. Lycoming never manufactured the GTSIO-520; TCM or Continental did. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the PIC to ensure his aircraft has been fueled with the correct fuel. I trained many line service techs over the years; WHY are aircraft still being mis-fueled?
My large model airplanes have deadsticked too many times to count over the years. Alway, always keep the nose down and fly to a landing spot. Airspeed is paramount.
I work for a 4 letter Gov agency that has an aviation program. A Government representative is always is present while fueling. This person #1 confirms the fuel type #2 confirms fuel caps are in place and locked!
This is apples and oranges as Im describing an automotive engine and aircraft engines are of course different.
I ran out of gasoline while driving, but had a couple gallons of diesel in the back that I used for a steam pressure washer. I put it in the tank, the engine started and while it had less power than normal and smoked, it did run.
I dont know how different jet fuel is from diesel, but Ive heard they are similar.
It was probably running on more gas than diesel.
The pilot does not know what kind of fuel the plane uses? Just unbelievable!
Pilot tried the impossible turn with the usual consequences.
2,432 flight hours, but can't be bothered to sump the tanks....wow
You don’t sump freshly fueled tanks.
I wonder if sumping would have noticed the fuel,the jet fuel would have been on top of the fluid,the engines ran for 10 minutes on the ground and then got in the air.
@@greysheeum You supervise the fueling of your aircraft, you do not not leave it to some pimply faced kid in a go nowhere job. Always sump, two or three times, after fueling.
@@nedsackmann2215 Gas weighs 6 pounds per gallon. Jet fuel weighs closer to 7. You take on big load of fuel it will soon be in the sump.
@@AlbertHess-xy7kyHow's that work actually!
The model in this simulation is not a 421C. It is a 402C! 421 has gear driven engines with a hump above the prop shaft.
Such an important distinction...
I suspected they would probably have loaded jet fuel into the fuel tanks… From day one we are taught as pilots to maintain airspeed… This was probably a very survivable situation.
after a refuel, how about looking in the tank to verify pretty blue color, and then sump the fuel to verify pretty blue color with no random stuff at the bottom...
As I remember a 421C burns 20 gph per side so 40 gallons is an hour of fuel, not three hours. With proper leaning you could get it down to 15 gph but 40 gallons would not do three hours.
I doubt the fuel tank was completely empty when the pilot ordered the 40 gals of fuel. Most likely he added that amount to ensure fuel reserve in case he had to divert ot an alternate airport.
@@danburch9989 True, but my point was the OP stated the pilot added three hours worth of fuel which clearly isn't 40 gallons.
@@cbonz7734 The OP may just be stating facts from the incident report without second guessing the reasons for the 40 gal. I don't think the OP is a pilot or he would have known that 40 gal = about 1 hr flight time at 75% power give or take.
Unleaded gasoline for cars was introduced in 1975, and fuel tank openings had a RESTRICTOR which would ONLY allow the correct fuel nozzle to be inserted. Why not have a similar setup for the various types of aviation fuel? Nobody likes to admit it, but we sometimes act like idiots, so we NEED Idiot-Proof systems. And get RID of the poisonous LEADED fuel already!
A good FBO the trucks would have different nozzles from jetA ,100LL, helicopters! Labeling on the trucks and size to
What IQ do you need as a fueler to recognize the difference between a jet and a prop aircraft? Sounds like his excuse was “Hey he watched me and and he he didn’t tell me I was doing it wrong…It’s not my fault!”
Do you know what a turbo prop burns?
@@lbowsk This isn’t a turboprop if that’s what you’re talking about. It’s an opposed 6 cylinder piston engine.
@@MrCrystalcranium I am well aware of that. You questioned why a guy would put jet A in a propeller driven plane. And I am simply pointing out that not all props burn Avgas.
Hey guys, the question is how did he get the much larger and flattened jet A nozzle into the smaller and round avgas filler neck?
Aviation gasoline (avgas) nozzles are small and round and fit into smaller opening fuel filler ports while jet fuel nozzles are larger and flattened like a duck's bill, requiring a larger fuel filler port.
@@patricnoKThe truck may not have a duck bill nozzle. In fact, I haven’t seen a flat jet fuel nozzle at an FBO in a good while.
Same old story as in countless other vids; the pilots try to turn back and stall, it's killed lots of pilots who don't seem to have heard of the old aviation saying- "Never turn back".
It's because using the ailerons in the turn messes up the airflow over the inside wing which is always the one that stalls.
A fuel man that cannot read warnings on the fuel caps doesn't know the difference between a gasoline-powered engine and a jet engine you have to be kidding me
What warnings were on the the caps? You expect a $15 an hour fuel person to to know the difference between a gasoline-powered engine and a jet engine? Piston engines use jet fuel. You have to be kidding me.
A pilot does does not check his fuel receipt, and sniff the tanks.
He is dead.
You have to fly the airplane all the time. I would bet that the pilot was not present when the refueling was completed either. Always be present when having the airplane refueled.
Just like at a car gas station, the two different fuels should have handles of different colors (for example red pump handle for "avgas " and green for "jet fuel") and it should be common knowledge which is which. This would have prevented this tragic matter, which was SO easily preventable.
How do you tell which fuel goes in which plane? Are fuel caps different colors for different types??
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky I believe he said the fuel cap or pump said "avgas" on it
Even losing both engines doesn’t make an aircraft stall. It takes a pilot not able to handle an emergency to inadvertently stall.
Losing both engines make aircraft go down, stalls are common, no one wants to go down.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky stalls and spins are certain death.
This “cartoon” is a joke!
So many inaccuracies and misinformation.
1. Not a stall spin/vmc impact, but a low angle impact. Notice the vertical propellor blade. Aircraft “slid into the ground”. Broke up and burned.
2. Not a C421C but a C404 depicted. Non geared engines, square windows- non pressurized.
3. 40gal is not even 1hr of fuel for takeoff and climb. I always planned 50gph for first hour and 40gph thereafter.
As a 18,000hr CFI,CFII, MEI, AND a Vehicle and Boat accident reconstruction expert, I felt my intelligence was insulted.
A M/E aircraft don’t normally roll and stall with both engines out. Though, given the density altitude and loading of the aircraft, the flight performance would have been marginal.
Whoever did this production can do better!
This proves once again to me why I have no interest in general avaiation.....too many other people you have no control over who can easily kill you.
You have control on commerical?
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky True, but the level of competence is much higher in commerical. Everybody is in general avaiation no matter what level of competence.
@@jeffro221 Same goes for driving. You have no control.
Over Macho Grande?
No.. I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande! Those wounds run pretty deep.
The decision to proceed is yours.
How does this happen? So very sad! RIP to all who perished.
This struck home, I didn’t know about is crash before today, I’m going to research Pilot Martinez, I have a sneaking suspicion I know him from my time in the New Mexico State Police.
Stewart AFB New York hauling a lot of Army cadets. They’d just converted an avgas truck to JP4 .
Id prefer a voice over actually.. but nice work.
That airplane has 375 horsepower turbocharged. If it's not heavily loaded, it can fly with one engine with no problem. We did it before😅 we used to call that airplane the hanger queen for sure, good plane but I didn't like the design of the fuel system running through the turbocharger when it's red hot according to the video he turned towards the running Engine which is good but he didn't feather the engine shut down. RIP
He allowed his plane to be mis-fueled.
Democrat, Equity, and Inclusion hire…
The fueler should have been charged with manslaughter. 😮
You can easily smell the difference from 20 feet
The pilot should have lowered the nose to maintain airspeed. No power means no turns!! A controlled off airport landing is better than a stall spin crash. Also, 40 gallons in a twin would not be enough fuel unless the tanks were at least half full. R.I.P.
He lost me before take-off. No chance 40 gallons = 3 hours for TWO 540s. That's less than 7 gph per engine ignoring taxi, run-up, climb out and reserve. All of which further reduce flight time.
Graphic image is a Cessna 402C
How and why did this aircraft stall? He had an entire desert to land in yet stalled the aircraft and killed everyone.
Being a technical head and past aircraft engineer the 520 engine belongs to Continental not Lycoming
No one puts fuel in my plane without me standing there. Maybe it is the right fuel truck, but maybe the storage tank at the airport just had a fuel delivery and it was the wrong fuel put into the storage tank.. I have to see the first squirt from the nozzle and smell the fuel before I let them go ahead and pump it. And I am the one that puts the fuel cap back on and closes the hatch. Been banging around in airplanes most of mt life and what I do was learned from others who paid the price for not paying attention.
This not the pilot's fault. It was pimple faced $12 and hour GED .
It's like a diesel car fueled with petrol and vice versa
Lousy cap needs to be relabeled, "Gasolina de Aviación Solamente"
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My thoughts are, fuel truck operators need some basic education in identifying aircraft types, and they also need to communicate with the pilot and confirm the type of fuel that is onboard the truck. An operator needs to state whether it is Jet-A, Avgas and probably octane rating if Avgas, even though today it is mostly 100 octane. Although I am not a pilot, and don't know all that much about different models of aircraft, a superficial glance at the shape of an engine nacelle will almost always identify whether the engine is a gasoline powered, reciprocating engine or jet-A powered turboprop and a fuel truck operator needs at least that much knowledge.
40 gallons is not enough for 3 hours of flight. More like 1.5 hours.
The pilot should have noticed sky high EGT's. The pilot was irresponsible.
Stewart AFB New York hauling a lot of Army cadets. They’d just converted an avgas truck to JP4 . 8:11 8:11
Can't manufacturers use different filler connections, one kind for jet fuel and a different one for AVGAS?
When did this happen? Resident of Las Cruces question
I don't understand this . With plenty of open desert and roads why not take a chance on a forced landing?
You were not there.
Jet fuel is essentially Diesel. I doubt that it damaged the engine, it simply requires more heat to ignite than gasoline, so the engines stopped running when there was not enough avgas remaining in the system.
The pilot should have sumped the tanks to verify that the fuel was blue and smelled like avgas.
There was no reason to stall. He panicked and pulled back to far and/or turned too steeply.
So he sumps the tanks what comes out
@@davidsmiths5471 Jet A. Like water Jet A is heavier than AvGas
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky So you think it just removes AVgas! From all the lines and little sump pipes! Then please explain how this aircraft was able to fly at all?
@@davidsmiths5471 It does not remove, it displaces, Jet A is much heavier. There was still AV gas in the fuel system.
@@davidsmiths5471 Sniff test.
I ruined a perfectly good lawnmower by putting two-cycle fuel into it instead of gas. That’s a mistake that you only make once.
Stewart AFB New York hauling a lot of Army cadets. They’d just converted an avgas truck to JP4 . 8:11
Bad pilot all the way around. No reciept verification which he absolutely got and paid NO attention to. Then for sag's he has no sense of wings level glide and slide down onto the desert floor. This crash at 700 feet was completely avoidable. It did not mean hard over, wing stall, down into the ground! Thats pilot error!!
Starts with the FBO then just snowballed
Did the pilot feather the props and push the nose over ? Looked like an impossible turn back . No , I’m not a pilot I just watch a lot of Dan Gryder and his probable cause channel . A needless tragedy nonetheless.
Dan Gryder is criminal, he steals things. He loses court cases, like Trump.
I would assume jet fuel restrictors incorporated on the airplane tanks could have avoid this accident
Avgas nozzles are smaller than Jet A nozzles. The system is not fool proof. The pilot was a fool. The line boy has pimples.