Model 3 Vs Model S Motor
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Tesla motors, named after the genius inventor Nikola Tesla, used his evergreen invention of induction motors in their EV line. Well, not until the model 3 came up with a superstar motor-the IPMsynRM. IPMsynRMs are proven to be the ultimate solution for EVs to achieve high-speed performance. So, let’s see how the versatile induction motors compete against the latest entry - IPMsynRM motors.
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Cool video, but a small correction: the Model S Plaid is the only version that uses the carbon fiber sleeve. The other models just limit the RPM
Came to the comments to look for this. Thanks
New model x also uses the carbon sleeve motors
@@xWinstonski Correct. I forgot they started to ship the refreshed X too 😅
I was gonna say, the model 3 isn't even close to the S Plaid, yet they are using a complex in house developed, tested and implemented motor in the model 3? I knew it didn't sound right, makes more sense this is put in higher end models, like the S Plaid and the future Roadster
I think some of the changes for the 2022 model year for 3 and y include using the plaid motor, but only on the performance trim. So, model 3 and y performance will get this new plaid motor soon!
Man, people are smart.
Busy on it since the 18th century.
Engineers are ;)
They can be. Sometimes. 😏
That’s been my reaction to every one of their videos, especially the magnet train
@@MP-ut6eb everyone is, humans are stupid so we think those who work with the complex symbols involved in mathematics are smart. Intelligence runs rampant everywhere, not just where society wants to notice it.
I feel that it would have been good to mention at least once what IPMsynRM means. It stands for Interior Permanent Magnet syncronous Reluctance Motor.
And what does the Reluctance par tell us?
@@markgritzan2841 Magnetic flux wants to find the path of least reluctance, this is how they get the motor to turn.
brain left the chat. so i start practicing for 2 h
This channel is perfect for people who like learning thru visual explanation. I really appreciate the work and effort put into making these videos. Thanks!
You need to watch Veritasium’s video about NOT being visual learners. We learn mostly by hearing. Visuals are just a plus. And no, you are not an exception. Watch the video!
@@superleggenda lol,was thinking of that video too
@@superleggenda III and and Ireland in the the first time IN The UK and Ireland in the the first time IN The d ďď d ďd
@@ntsuabtsab8655 …what?
Guy who created this channel and team is a indian
This is great! It shows how in real engineering, solving even one small problem through innovation causes another problem, and you have to solve that too... and finally an optimized solution is used. Engineering is not easy; that's where interdisciplinary knowledge is useful. My respect to the genius of Nicola Tesla for coming up with the idea of rotating magnetic field and creating induction motors using it. I have difficulty imagining any field :).
By the way, my respect also to Lesics team for presenting the knowledge of sophisticated engineering to the students in the most interesting way. I am sharing this channel with all the students I know.
Engineering is about finding the Perfect compromize.
Pretty sure the model 3 is using ultra high strength steel sleeving, it's the new model S which uses carbon fiber sleeving.
@E Van it could accelerate faster if it wasnt a four door 4,700lbs beast, kinda crazy to think about
@@sovietdies i could fly if it wasnt for gravity.
Yeah, and the Plaid doesnt use induction motors on the rear. Its just the M3P motor with the carbon sleeve.
@@sovietdies From 0-60 it's limited by friction so no, but after 60 shaving weight would sure make a big difference.
@E Van It's 1.99 with 1ft rollout substracted (when you use the laser detectors on the track) and 2.1 from a standstill (when you use the Dragy)
I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of the IPMsynRM with the Lucid motor, both look to be new levels of efficiency in EV motors but different approaches.
Me trying to sleep
My brain: IPMSynRM IPMSynRM IPMSynRM
Thanks a lot for making this video. You explained the complex concept in very simple language. It was easier to absorb concepts because of the self-explaining animations.
A way to get around the curing process is to first cure the resin system at a lower temperature to not affect the magnets. You can install a keeper tube (Made from cast iron) around the rotors which keeps the atoms aligned. This would need a post cure for the resin system to reach its required properties... but the rotor will still be magnetised.
Why reupload?
This is such cool info! I learn new stuff all the time. I love the details.
Great video as usual.
Feedback: The brake pad assembly doesn't rotate with the wheel; easy fix to further polish your excellent videos.
I can't unsee that now
Good eye
not the easiest fix because the wheel model and brake assembly model is one big model
Very in depth and informative video, great work!
Thank you for such an informative presentation, with good animation.
Great video perfection, Elon was not kidding when he said that this particular motor was special.
Good video , May I ask any resources about IPMsynRM , and Thank you so much
the Tesla inspired induction motor is more friendly to the Earth's environment when manufactured at the massive scale that could supplant all ICE ground transportation (the raw materials required)
Model 3 dual motor variants use the IPMsynRM on rear axle and induction motor in the front, not only IPMsynRM
This improves efficenciy, because the induction motor can just run without power with no recuperation, so no loss of energy when only the rear motor is needed.
Model S and X were other way round before Plaid (IPMsynRM in the front @Raven)
Dont know how it is now with the 2021 Model S & X
You've got yourself a like just because you didn't ask for one.. and because you have a great content. Thank you
Nicely explained, thanks!
PMSM are also used in Indian EV cars Like Tata vehicles known as Ziptron technology , while the old school Induction motors are used in Non Ziptron vehicles like Tigor EV with low power capcaity. The Innovation done in reluctance torque to support the motors performance is genius method , as in older generation motors the Reluctance torque used to fight against the torque produced by motors. By simply changing the angle of current;s orientation to the magnetic field , the reluctance will also support the motors performance by doing so.
Most awaited video thank you 👍
Can the IPMSynRM design be made in an outrunner configuration? It seems like it would be easier to cool that way, assuming air cooling on the PM and Reluctance portion would be sufficient when it is on the outside.
It can't, not enough "meat" behind magnets so not enough flux weakening
Surface (not internal) permanent magnet motors are readily available in outer-rotor (outrunner) configuration, but they're not popular. Since much more cooling is needed for the stator than for the rotor, making the rotor easier to air-cool isn't really an advantage... and a surface PM motor doesn't have useful reluctance torque.
@@brianb-p6586 I was thinking that the stator could be liquid cooled, and being stationary would not need a high-speed water-tight seal.
@@vodiak Right, the plumbing for the stator is easy either way, but it's good to have a large cooled shell wrapped around an outer stator rather than trying to cool the small central core of an inner stator. All modern EV motors have a liquid-cooled stator.
very well explained! thanks!
Can you do a video on regenerative braking? I've seen a couple others, but I'm still confused.
This video is incredibly well done
Sir plz make videos explaining current transformer (CT), voltage transformer (VT) & circuit breaker (CB) in power transmission
the video is really cool. But please when showing a graf put data in the x axis aswell. how do I know if the diference in speed is 1km/h or 20km/h
This is my prediction for the carbon sleeve:
Build the carbon fiber sleeve separately using mold.
Cool the metal rotor to make it shrink.
Insert the shrunk rotor into the carbon sleeve.
So it's reverse of train wheel installation (expand the outer sleeve by heat then insert it into wheel axis)
Or insert the neodymium magnet after rotor is sleeved
Cool the rotor? Steel becomes brittle and more likely to fracture at frigid temperatures unless mixed into expensive alloys. Have you ever used heat shrink tubing? That's how tight it is.
Did you even watch the video? Magnets at an angle?
Funny how at the end of the video approx 7:16
The wheel and brake caliper are in sync while turning, 😂 lol
They do it on blades turbines for extra strength web binding cald stringer and a robotic system that winds precisely perfect laps so no imperfections are made and then after using this they heat treat it with air activation too with ambient air or a lil higher but not enough to melt magnesium anyway that's what I know working in the carbon and blade industry for ten years they also have to use a ultrasonic system that uses water so they can see if any cracks bubbles or overlaps that are out of tolerance like looking for improper welds on pipes really cool technology
Excellent educative video. I assume the IPMSynRM must be very expensive given the complex engineering process behind its manufacturing.
It's no more complex than any other synchronous 3-phase interior ermanent magnet motor, and that the most comm9n motor type in modern EVs
I've definitely going to share this video. Minor issue, the models for the Model 3 and S are swapped.
thank you very much! very intresting!
Is there a place where can I learn more about mechatronics in relation to vehicle? To be specific in transmission area of a vehicle
Great explanation, thanks
What programs do you use for animations?
I have a TESLA M3P from 2020 which in the product description has one of each engine. is it an advantage or a disadvantage?
very explanatory, but why did you re-upload
excellent explanation...thanks.
I think a disadvantage would be increased manufacturing cost due to complicated and proprietary carbon fiber compression winding and low repairability if the permanent magnets become demagnetized due to a defect in the cooling and due to their more complicated cooling. The advantages may still outweigh this downside though
I agree but it don’t think the advantage is worth it. Its a bit of a gamble on Tesla’s end. I installed motors for years at Fremont and cost savings also had a major impact on decision making. It’s not a flaw in silicone valley it’s a feature!
@@blayzehazetrh
Very interesting, could you do a more indepth video on how the IPMsyRM works, I feellike the physics part there was a bit quick 😅
They did in an earlier video:
ruclips.net/video/esUb7Zy5Oio/видео.html
Don't be afraid to look at their channel...
7:23 You mean to say they have a two point higher efficiency. This case it is approximately 2% but that’s just by chance.
Please explain how an EMP works and what are the measures to be taken to protect an electric appliance from an EMP
What software is used for these visuals?
This video seems out of date, it fails to mention Axial Flux SynRM motors that are more torque & power dense than these Radial Syn RM motors.
So high performance carrs, and eVtols are adopting Axial Flux.
I wonder if the curing process involves a vacuum machine. It be like trying to boil water without heat, the only way to do that would be to introduce a vacuum to get the liquid to boil at a very low temp.
It's amazing how Tesla made the IPMsynRM which can change the world of EVs
Would like to know about the kind of motor used in other EVs from popular brands like BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and Audi. BMW iX is one such promising car.
Most of them use Internal permanent magnet design. their designs of rotor varies. you can watch Munro's videos on this topic. he gives a details overview of all drive trains of these companies
@@getartsywithyogita8291 : Thanks.
As far as I know, Tesla is the only one using induction motors, all others use IPM motors (not just for EVs but for hybrids as well). However, there are some that uses IPM-SyncRM for even longer than Tesla. The BMW i3 is an example of this.
I believe BMW are looking at separately excited synchronous motors. Like a conventional interior permanent magnet synchronous motor (IPMSM, with no reluctance effects), but with an electromagnet rotor instead of a permanent magnet one. The Renault Zoe has been using this design since its first model. Its biggest benefit is that it eliminates the need for expensive (and politically-fraught) rare earth magnets. Its biggest downside is that, like the induction motor, it loses energy as heat in the rotor, and needs to be cooled for effective operation. The separately excited SMs are less efficient than the IPMSMs, but I believe they're marginally more efficient than induction motors.
Most manufacturers are using IPMSMs (without reluctance effects). Expect this to change as electric powertrains move from low-volume luxury vehicles to high-volume mass-market vehicles, and/or China start constraining the supply of neodymium and dysprosium. Separately excited motors and reluctance motors - especially ones that use aluminium alloys instead of copper - will probably become more common.
Renault uses separately excited motors
Battery powered cars are the future, but I don't get the feeling of my old school 1971 pickup and working on it with my son
Change is the only constant in this world. If you resist you’ll suffer
Hey folks at Lesics ... great job guys ... was really looking for this kind of video on the internet but couldn't find until now ... can u suggest books or courses that I can take so to learn in great detail about these electric motors ' construction , FEA and design ?
Yessss... That 3 am contenttt ..
Please make more videos on Electric and solar vehicles!!🙂
Great video!
It would be great to describe VW's DC motors used in ID.3 etc., and compare to Tesla's.
They are not really dc, all modern ev's use three phase ac motors.
VW uses internal permanent magnet synchronous motors, essentially the same as the Model 3.
@@brianb-p6586😊no
@@jopabolit VW now also uses induction (asynchronous) motors, with just PM in RWD models (such as the ID.4 RWD) and one axle PM and the other axle induction in AWD models (such as the ID.4 AWD)... just like the Tesla Model 3 and Y.
Both induction (synchronous) and synchronous PM motors are AC, not DC. No one uses DC motors in EVs.
@@brianb-p6586tesla battery bad
3:03 reminded me of venom in Spiderman 3
how much will it impact the cost of the final product? this is the crucial info we all would like to know.
Seems The IPMSYNRM are made using the COPV method used in aerospace
Thank you!
Imagine a plaid model 3 with dual carbon wrapped rotors!! 😅
I want a ludicrous or plaid model 3 that would be amazing
Thank អរគុណ
That animation is well done.
I imagine the carbon sleave wrapping process is similar too, if not the same as the process developed to produce the fuel tanks for the now defunct Lockheed VentureStar AeroSpike project.
Or similar albeit a smaller scale like Boeing wraps the 787 fuselage.
Can you please go through Lucid's motor?
graduate level video..very excellent
Could you make a video about Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive?
Very informative.
I would bet that Tessa us curing the composite motor overwrap with an electron beam or laser. Electron beam might be tricky because of the magnetic field but there is no reason that a prepreg carbon tow couldnt be cured with laser heating. Minimal heat input focused on the carbon would mean that there is almost no chance of heating the magnets.
Solid lifters, pushrods, Holley Double Pumper carbs.... Good times
then: hey dude whats that engine you got there? It's a blown big block buddy, it kicks ass
now: excuse me no gender having person, can I ask what motor your vegan electric car has? Sure it is a WF-C5790DWF/4 PRO PLUS 12S MAX
just doesn't sound the same, does it
@@darius2640
When the glass packs pop, the panties drop.
Please make video on working of Impuse turbine and reaction turbine... Please explain thoroughly 😊... Please... Please... Please
Nice explanation 😍
spyros panopoulos emotors and cells, next level
I prefer the induction motor because it has no magnets that require limited availability elements, is of more rugged and simple construction and there's no reason to care about speed as there's no need to go past 100km/h or to climb a hill very quickly, the induction motor also doesn't require very complicated cooling as shown in this video
I Wonder why most ev makers are going with the 1st one then
@@Dota2funny the video said that pm synchronous motor is used mostly by high performance ev makers, not the cheap and mass market oriented ones
Actually induction motor do require complicated cooling as both rotor and stator heat up significantly. IPMSynRM - not so much, rotor heating is greatly reduced, reducing need for complicated cooling.
@@volodumurkalunyak4651 video said opposite😄 however I'll stick with the induction 3 phase as no relatively rare and hard to source rare earths are required
@@GABRIEL-dz9mh video also states 96% efficient vs 98% efficient and maximum rotor temperatures at 80°C vs 100°C. 98% efficient with maximum rotor temperature 80°C is easier to cool than outher combination.
Only I noticed the "star of David" shape in this motor?
I this case it's the "star of Elon"
The weakness in the new motor is that it uses rare earth permanent magnets. Elements that are resource limited, and are both expensive and subject to supply chain problems.
Lol, they are not rare. Dont get fooled by the name. Agree with supply chain problems though.
@@romansenger2322 while neodymium is the second most abundant of the rare earth metals at 38mg per kilogramme of the earth crust. The largest deposits are in China, making it as rare as the Chinese want it to be.
I understand China has placed an embargo on its export, as it is considered a strategic material.
Is that sufficiently rare for you???
@@nigeljohnson9820 no, its rare.
@@romansenger2322 the world's total production of neodymium is approximately 7000 tons per annum.
@@romansenger2322 They are rare, why? Because we produce thousands tons of those elements while needing millions.
So if I have an induction motor there's no trees on the side of the road :(
And you will also fade away slowly inside the car.
Won't the extra layer of carbon fiber cause deterioration in running power factor and hence more current drawn by the motor?
Good information 👍 .
When you talk about resistive losses, you should say "i-squared r" not "i-two r"
It's a bot reading text
Wow... just 3 months ago your Axial Flux Motors video claimed that was the ideal solution...
Lesics What motor is better suited for electric aircraft, the IPMSynRM or axial flux motor ?
axial flux motor. because of its high power to weight ratio. next video coming up on that in 10 days.
@@getartsywithyogita8291 actually, whatever is more efficient and requires a smaller battery. There's little relevance in having a lighter motor if most of the weight comes from the battery anyway.
thankអរគុណបង
I don't understand why science feels boring in the class whereas it's very fascinating in this youtube video
Post detailed video about electric vehicle Motor controller
Vấn đề khó khăn là nguồn năng lượng .
Khi xe hết pin ,thời gian sạc đầy pin rất lâu . Đây là một điểm trừ so với động cơ đốt trong
Didn't even hear about IPMsynRM motors before this video😅
Nice learning tool!
i prefer IM over IPM.
When talking about electric car, it becomes weaker and weaker while it will be used in hard environment, the battery, and now the motor.
Thinking about high temperature places !!! Using expensive and rare magnet just to get some extra battery saving and torque!!
Amazing information
Index
05:32 Torque vs Speed performance comparison between IPM SynRM and Induction motors
How does the conductive carbon fiber interact with the spinning magnetic fields? Is there any induced current?
Since the permanent magnets are synced with the rotating magnetic field, from the perspective of any conductor on the rotor, the RMF is still, so no induced current. There might be a little induced current when speed changes, and it helps rotor and RMF sync up quicker, but rotor doesn’t rely on it, unlike induction motor. That’s why sync motor is more efficient than async motor. But there is possibility that the permanent magnets lose the magnetic property, by heat or external alternating magnetic field. So induction motor is more reliable.
@@joy2000cyber The same can be said about the rest of the rotor right? If what you say is the case, why do the bridges matter to begin with?
In the animation it also seem like the rotor is "sliced" vertically, likely to limit the eddy currents in the radial direction. It feels like the continuous carbon fiber sleeve would conduct the electricity radially.
What gives?
They spin at the same rate so no current is induced, there’s no changing magnetic field. Induction motors need the “slip” to generate current which in turn generate the magnetic field that causes rotation.
@@H1tman47 Yes, the rotor is built of many thin steel plates, but to stop eddy currents in the axial direction.
Wonderful!!
Question now is, can you replace the induction motor with this newer motor? Would it work well in hybrid vehicles? Or is this only good in an all electric vehicle?
An induction motor has lower freewheel drag, which makes it a better choice for occasionally used additional motors on an AWD system.
Most hybrid vehicles already use synchronous PM motors.
So in the end Tesla ditched induction motor (it was strange to me they used one due to low efficiency) and wen for PMSM like everyone else.
well, the power to weight ratio in an elecric motor isn't doing much of a difference if you ask me. it is a couple kilos different whilst having a battery that weighs many hundreds of kilos.
Weight is a none issue. Everybody who had calculations at school regarding rolling mass knows this. It's about aerodynamics.
@@HermanWillems Excessive mass can be an issue if you are interested with the car's handling performance. By having a lighter car, it will be easier to turn, downforce would have more of an effect, suspension systems would work better, and the tyres would have better grip and an extended lifespan as well. Basically, having a lower mass means a lower moment of inertia, which would greatly improve a car's handling performance. That is why Formula 1 teams are obsessed with removing as much mass as possible.
Also, another thing to note is the importance of how that mass is packaged. If the packaging is compact, the radius of gyration (gyradius) will be lesser, which would improve handling characteristics. However, this comes at the cost of possibly reducing the lifespan of the powertrain components because they are much closer to each other and the heat that is given off from particular components (for example, the motor, which both internal combustion engines and electric motors, do give off quite a bit of heat) will have an easier time finding its way to the other components.
In summary, mass and its distribution is critical to automobile engineering.
Excellent engineering
Magnets. How do they work?
Thanks
Looks like the new synrm motor is 6 phases, isn’t it?
Thank u