@@albionpewpew Yes and no. The old interactions don't exist, but there are new ones. There are even scenario-specific ones, like the "Now this is a strong team" zarya voiceline which seems to trigger only if the team comp has 4 tanks or more.
@@GabrielxDesignsame here, not to mention, I don't know if it was the switch to f2p but nobody would stay grouped with the team, so it just turned into a series of 1 or 2v5s while I yell for ppl to group up. I started playing after the announcement of this and the game seems much better, just because more people either join VC, mic or not, or they're actually trying to communicate and group up. I had a single bad match all day this morning :)
@@nuclearsimian3281 the solution there can be a well placed Sombra and other DPS class, nowadays it feels like you lose one member and you've lost the team fight sometimes. Feels a little better now but I've also come back after not playing since ov2 launched
I miss having a tank buddy so much, i just dont think there are changes they can make that will feel as good as just having another tank to synergize with and pick up slack
Dude I keep seeing people on different games and science articles talk about gta6 like what’s the story with that anyways? Like we might even get a kingdom hearts 4 before that lol
The bottom line is this: Tank is not a popular role, but without tank (i.e. tank players) the game dies. They took the least popular role, put a ton of extra pressure on it AND made it miserable to play. How do you fix this? Well, they could find a way to make the role less miserable within 5v5, they could eliminate the role entirely, they could remove role requirement, or they could force nontank players to wait in a longer queue while they find 2 tanks for them to play with. I don't envy the team that has to try to fix this problem.
Everyone has their own one in a million, magic solution that would make the game perfect, but no one talks about how impossible this is for the dev team. I think their experiments and slow changes are the only way the game wouldn't implode while trying to make it "perfect". One drastic move can easily kill a game if it's made recklessly and without thought.
the long que time for tanks isnt cause no one wants to play tanks, tank was fun in 6v6 format, its cause tank feels like trash to play. Its funny cause they changed 2 tank format cause they wanted to cut costs for OWL teams by removing a player and cut tank que times, but in reality tank que times are basically the same as they were in OW1, cause tank is even worse cause they cut the skill floors to rock bottom with the projectile size changes, and increased the tanks health pools. Tank feels so boring to play vs and to play as, it as legitimately easier to kill a tank with their entire team in GOATS meta or double shield than it is to kill a tank SOLO in a 1v1, completely disgusting balancing.
@@jeremysalads7458 Fun is relative... But objectily speaking, people prefer playing damage IN ALL OTHER GAMES. Sure they can make the tank experience better but who says it's more fun in 6v6? I played both and found it more fun to have the extra responsibility of being the ONE tank... After all tank players are into being punished ...no?
@@jeremysalads7458no? Tank que times are the same, yes. It's every other roles que times that was affected. DPS had monsterpus 9 minute que times, while tanks had a snap 30 second ones. And it's because nobody played the tank role. With 5v5 it's solved by literally cutting the amount of tanks needed for the match in half. So it leads to faster que times for literally everyone else
I once talked about the tank problem in another video, but basically I said this: tanking (in general) is a role that nobody likes, because if you make a mistake then the team will blame you, it requires the most knowledge and "leadership" of the entire group, and EVEN IF you manage to get the class to perfection 99% of the time nobody will care. It's, literally, a "thankless" job.
Is it a coincidence that as soon as the Marvel Rivals beta dropped, the exact next day OW released news of 6v6 returning? With the Marvel Rivals beta getting so many positive reviews, the dev’s know that a lot of OW gamers are gonna switch to Marvel Rivals once the full game drops. Blizzard knows they’re going to have to counter Marvel soon, so bringing 6v6 back is the only way to keep their game from losing even more players.
My worries for marvel rivals is that its new and shiny so ofc its fun things are unbalanced and its fun but when metas form and the flood gates are opened to all players then youll start seeing those similar complaints of balance and itll all depend on how the devs balance and react to that and how much content they put out thatll decide if its a true competitor or if itll die within a year im all for competition but its still very early to rlly call it competition against OW
Are we forgetting that a major issue with 6v6 was 2CP? Alot of the issues presented here "poking at the choke" and "waiting for ults to come online" were exaggerated by 2CP. 2CP was basically Chokewatch. 2CP isnt a problem any more (but I do miss Hanamura, Volskya, and Temple of Annubis)
Inherently the core design of Overwatch will always have balance issues. In a world where every different hero has different abilities it can never be truly balanced. It can be brought to a tolerable level. And every now and then something totally broken is actually quite fun.
I agree. The community should talk less about balance and more about inherent issues if they want to change the format of the game. I believe that if they want to keep the solo playstyle that ow2 has become, they need to make a different game.
@@wusaintyes but 5v5 inherently is imbalanced because one role HAS to be better, whether it was 1 tank, dps, or support it doesn’t work. Having exactly the same amount of each role per team allows for a good basis of balance to build from. Therefore 6v6 is a better format
@@psgelcapitan2451 I wouldn't really say that's why 6v6 is the "better format." I think a huge issue is the design of many of the tanks were never meant to be the only tank. Hog, Ball, Dva, etc.... And on that note many of the original heroes altogether are getting left behind by the newer heroes. Just look at Rein's kit compared to say Ram's. Or compare damn near the entire support lineup to Kiri.
One thing is really simple here, DPS has vastly more characters than both Support and Tank. Of course people will gravitate more towards DPS, because it has more options.
Wrong. It has nothing to do with hero selection. Too put it simply, and tank players love to say this as why they dont like 5v5, they don't want to get hit with CC and damage as their job. They want to deal it. Period.
@@ReaveIdono Wrong. I didn't claim what I said was the one and only exclusive cause. What I said isn't wrong, just not the entire truth. But to expand on what I said: Let's say all DPS and Tanks feel equally satisfying to play, logically, more people will gravitate to DPS simply because there are way more options. You might be a Tank player, but you "really like playing Genji"
@Spika94 Do you know what It means to simplify the complex issue down to the single digestible point? It means you are implying this is the reason for the complex issue. Which completely ignores what current Tank players are crying about across all ranks. The fact still remains is Tank players do NOT want to be tanks. They want to be fat DPS because they lack the mechanical skill to play Genji... The Tanks allow them more health to make more stupid mistakes that would get them utterly destroyed on Genji lol.
14:00 - Competitive Open Queue was introduced as "Season 1" during Season 21 (March 5, 2020 - 7 months after the Beta Role Queue in August 2019). There was a "Season 2" of Competitive Open Queue during Season 22, then it merged into core competitive we all know now as just Open Queue alongside the Role Queue for Season 23.
@@daj27 the tank wars are now lol however once 6v6 comes back if there are not a bunch of nerfs for that mode then I fear we will end up with revenge of the tanks lol
You will probably move on after a few games. I don't know if you re one of the cry babies who just complain even though they didnt play ow2 for more than 1 hour, but all those ppl who grave for ow1 are imo looking for those nostalgic ow1 experiences which they won't receive (sadly), I guess. So all those babies - again probably not u but the crying is really annoying - will play a few rounds and abandon the game again and all the work from the devs was basically for nothing 😂 but I'm excited what they gonna do with the 6v6 plan
I love that Aaron is talking to us about this and with so much transparency. As players, its easy to underestimate how much work goes into making any significant changes, and as much as we might go "just add a separate game mode for it," its never that simple.
@@sandyk9300 Yes, they just failed to make OW2; that's all. Most teams would have cancelled the uninspired, unimpressive PvE internally and we never would have even heard about it. But Jeff wrongly believed he was better than the industry and could not fail, and so went up on stage and promised the world AND dropped his previous baby so he could work on the new baby, and failed utterly.
Except it literally is, people did it in the workshop, 6 vs 6 shouldn’t have to take multiple more season to get added back into the game, should be added overnight
Bro loves long speeches. "It all started with the Big Bang", haha. TL;DR is just 4 sentences long. But it was a good look at the evolution of the game though
@@Femboy_Grey Have you tried playing it on PS4? Switch? With 2 Echos copying 2 Ram ults, plus 2 Ram ults, plus 2 Mauga ults? In their new lighting+weather system? They can't just make sure it works 99.9% of the time, because with thousands of games going on at once that means there will be dozens crashing constantly. Note they said *MEMORY* issues, not just performance.
The addition of more unique/niche tank heros, smarter map design/reworks, and reducing CC could all lead to a better 6v6 tank experience and possibly more people queueing for the role
If we’re poking at the choke then couldn’t you argue that’s a map design flaw not a format flaw? Why not make multiple entries for engagements or wider chokes?
I think we can give a big thanx to the 6v6 PUG scene for getting traction on this. That, and everyone throwing their hat into the ring to discuss it, no matter their position.
I think its fine to speculate why they did this but this was decided on already by them before aaron's interview with flats a while ago. He was told not to ask 6v6 questions because they had plans to talk about it already after putting the research and data together to give their input and decisions well. Rivals beta is clearly just coincidence. Having said that, competition is good and it'll definitely get the attention of executives to help the devs in making the choices they want to make.
@@sparquisdesade i didn't unfortunately. Didn't even think about it at the time. Just saw it and went "ha, its off center like it's the end screen for 6v6. Unless it just looks that way because I'm [Ana] sitting down on the righ-no yeah, it's off center"
6v6 Might actually get me to return to the game. OW2 never felt like the 'home' OW1 was. It will be interesting to see the metrics when the test goes live!
Sitting in the choke and having long team fights still exists. 5v5 might have more single impact, but one player holding 50% of the win condition creates a similar issue. For the tank queue issue, I’d look at the top500 leaderboard. In ow1, top500 tank was always gm, usually gm1-gm3. In ow2, it’s in Diamond in NA and EU, and there aren’t even 500 tank players in Asia in Diamond and above with 50 wins.
For people getting super hyped just reading the title: 6v6 is not 100% back yet. They're going to run tests with different 6v6 formats in the game. The tests are for them to gather feedback and decide OW's future. So, 6v6 COULD be back...
@@FatPigeon-6they'd have to play this test and openly show support it's not just inherently gonna get a landslide of people we gotta put in work and try to get new and old players to play it to get enough support to show that people want this
having 6v6 back i'd be fine with but if role queue gets removed i'll never play this game again, i can't go back to being the only support/tank in a team of reaper, hanzo, genji, widow and junkrat
I think we might end up with something similar to other games... A "soft role queue". You'd queue your roles and get a role comp, like 1-3-2 or 2-2-2 or 2-1-3. (Or 3 tanks but that would be very rare and inefficient since few tank mains) Then it would match you with a similar comp. However i think it would usually default to 1-3-2 since most people queue damage. This might also apply to 5v5 though.. and that might also be interesting.. however will also default to one tank. The 6v6 players will see for themselves how many tanks queue and will still be frustrated by the REALITY that exists in ALL GAMES. Just hope this experiment doesn't mess up the game too much... Because there's a silent majority who just play the game and don't complain... Or they just stop playing.
The things 5v5 stans go to say how it’s better. Every single one of them forgets 6v6 sucked at the end was because they abandoned the game to make 5v5.
Content creators fr the biggest bots out there talking about how 6v6 back is just a nostalgia thing and not going to fix anything to a complete flip as soon as blizzard says it might happen.
This was a good Director’s Take. And you know why it was good? He didn’t call a large portion of the Overwatch community flat earthers for feeling the way they do. And why would they do that? It would be absolutely wild of someone to do such a thing and then not swallow their pride and apologize for it.
This a great change. The biggest problem with 5v5 is the fact Tank weaknesses are very glaring. Rein has no range, Hog can't protect his team, doom can't face tank and etc. that's why counterpicking is so prevalent. No amount of buffs can maje up for glaring weaknesses
Who says that it will be 2 tanks? The most popular role is DPS. It makes more sense to be 3dps,1 tank, 2 supports. Why increase the number of tanks when it's the least popular role. And it's not the least popular role because you get focused, it was the least popular role even when there were two tanks.
@@Nube_Negrah it makes all the sense in the world. Why increase The least popular role if you don't have enough people to play it with only having one in the team. And even when there were two it was still the least popular role in the game that nobody wanted to play or pick.
I love how Blizzard tried to imply that people were picking so many damage characters as the reason why they put in role lock, when really it was GOATS they were trying to kill lol
I mean it depends on where you were on the rank ladder. At low diamond and below goats was rarely seen. I'm willing to bet I saw it played 5 times or less that entire time at my rank. For the streamers and pros then sure they saw it every single game. You know what else fixes it besides role lock? The draft mode or hero bans that Freedo has been wanting to see for years.
@castlevaniaking5 My friends and I used to 6 stack and only play goats in low diamond~. Was super fun, but I get that it got stale for the majority of the playerbase due to it sticking around for so long.
That's a really funny statement considering GOATS was never seen in non-stacked lobbies below high Diamond. Why was that? BECAUSE NOBODY PICKED TANK. Why are you trying to throw this revisionist nonsense out like 2018 casual OW wasn't a steamroll simulator, on account of the Shimada/Widow onetricks throwing games by existing?
@@dashieldmasta177 Honestly can't relate to this, been a tank main since i started playing and never looked back since. Played Rein/Zarya through the ladder from low gold up to GM, I've had more non-stacked GOATS than anything else. Not trying to throw any nonsense out, but none of us can deny that Blizz was actively trying to murder GOATS
Marvel Rivals with 6v6 getting all the attention. Overwatch shitting bricks and decided to talk about bringing back 6v6 but bitching about all the upgrades to make 5v5 so that 6v6 wont work lol. With regards to queue time for tank. Just make the tanks interesting to play. Look at how tanks are on Marvel Rivals .
except that wont happen unless the balance team is even worse for 6v6 than 5v5. people didnt get tired of 6v6, they got tired of no content updates, balancing, and a forced stale meta. The only people that want 5v5 back are legitimate terrible players.
I might be one of few or one of many, but I used to play tank a lot, wasn't my main, but would actually queue all roles all the time. But ever since OW2 other than placements, I haven't touched tank.
I like it how it is now. The only thing I would change is the first person into the lobby can pick whoever they want but once the role was filled the heroes in that role would no longer be available
It would be cooler if we didn't have to wait until season 13 to just play test :v but imo jusr drop support for Switch and last gen consoles. Being limited to toasters is crazy
I think there will be more tank players if the format goes to 6v6. I cant say if it will be enough to offset the opening, but I would love to play as a 2nd tank, rather than the sole focus of the enemy team. It feels like I have minimal agency as tank in the current format.
Did you even watch the video? The blog post itself tells us this isn't and has never been the case. Tank is wildly unpopular, queue times are bad exactly because of 2 tank role queue. The cope that somehow shooting zarya bubbles on other tanks or fighting multiple barriers shoved into your face is more fun than the game is right now, and will bring people back is so disappointing. Real evidence doesn't mean anything to 6v6ers and somehow they subjectively also found the slower more restrictive version of the game more fun.
I’m a tank main and haven’t played since they dropped 6v6. If we get this back in comp, I’ll return to hold the front lines for you again, my friend. Miss my tank synergy homies.
@@secretlyaslug2325 yes, however that was prior to adding attack heavy tanks. The prior iteration was defense heavy save hog, or ball who most players dont touch. Now theres doom, junker, mauga. Orissa being shieldless leans to a more aggressive playstyle too. Its now more engaging to be a tank, assuming theres a second to offset the weakness inherent in each.
My friends and I always thought having a "Flex" role would be super useful. A player on a team that has all heroes available. This allows more variety of team comp while still ensuring one or more of a certain role. There were a couple ideas we threw around with this: 1Tank 1Dps 1Support 3Flex. 2Tank 1Dps 1Support 2Flex. I think if they did this it would have to be 2 or more on a team for it to actually impact anything, but it was a cool idea.
I've dropped Overwatch a good while before 2 even came out but due to a lot of upsetting choices and mistakes from Blizzard and the dev team I've refused to give it a try again since it seemed greed and money were the only driving force left behind this game. But I am still keeping up with the news and I would tune in again if they ever cared to fix their flaws. While this does not address the ridiculous monetisation, I do really appreciate the transparency and genuine tone in this blogpost. It doesn't feel like corporate pandering for once and it's truly giving me a bit of hope for this game moving forward. I would love to see a future where Overwatch becomes about creating a fun experience for the casual gamer again, even if it entails a bit of chaos.
This is going to be a hard pill to swallow for you but no matter how many vods you watch and games you play your opinion only becomes more alienated from the majority. The reason why the tips and tricks videos used to work so well was that people loved the base game so much that they were willing to watch videos to be better, and that number affirmation slowly desensitized you to what the actual average player is. The real reason most people played was the passion and personality that oozed from every character dev update and change that overwatch made. The moment they prioritized competitive viability OVER the fun was when the game died. The game lost the main reason it was pulling players in the first place, give balancing opinions all you want but this format of overwatch videos is what killed the game for the majority. 6v6 this 5v5 that, nothing is fully balanced and people continue to prove to game developers that they really don’t know what the game needs just what they want. You want a game thats perfect just for you? Make your own game instead of bitching to game developers who spent thousands of hours more than you studying design principles and working with the actual numbers instead of your biased opinion where, lets be honest, for most people is based on your favorite overwatch creator and no actual thought. And don’t think that I’m saying this because I’ve never cared about the viability of the competitive aspect of the game, for the longest time in overwatch one I was the people watching you and studying vods to improve my gameplay. The only reason I say this now is because of the new perspective I’ve gotten as I get older and have less and less time to constantly study the optimal way to play. At one point I realized that the only reason most people play the game anymore is no longer about liking a character and human interactions but because we think as long as the game is perfectly balanced then the game will be fun again. We ruined the game and I’m forever sad that we made such a passionate team lose the spark that they had in the beginning. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, we crashed the train long ago and are now walking to different destinations thinking each way is the right way. The worst part is that we never even tried fixing the train :/.
Never tried 6v6 and as a tank player I'll be thrilled to try it 😊 I can't explain to you how bad I feel outplaying another tank by miles, cause I know that feeling as when I'm not... There's my whole team who blames only me and no one else when I can't do nothing 😔 Tank is a critical role in 5v5 and I really don't like it. My mental is hecking gone.
That’s what I’m saying bro, back in OW1 I was a tank main but the pressure of solo tank in OW2 burns me out so quick after a few games. Things were so much more fun in the past
As a member of the old guard, a metal rank main tank player for those who still remember what that is. Are you still honestly think that a lot of the people don't want to play tank psychology would be mitigated in 66 because of their new tank design philosophy. It's worth remembering just how few tanks we had access to an OverWatch one and how each of them operated. Adding more tanks that almost universally fit very well into what we used to call the off tank role what's more diverse kits I think would pull a lot of people into the role if the devs and Community got behind something like that. I would love to be able to pull out Rinehart with remata, or Rinehart with junker queen, or run dive lineups with Winston wrecking ball Diva and doomfist obviously we still want them to keep adding more tanks but even with the ones they've added it gives more options to those three core play styles that we have. Even with that, speaking as a main tank player, I never had much issue using my core Heroes with any other tank with the exception of roadhog. For example, I played Winston with just about anything classic Winston Diva dive, Winston wrecking ball splitting gauges, Winston Zaria Double Bubble Winston Ryan and I would play offtake and peel my back line or bubble off Ryan's engaged so he could swing inside bubble, similar deal with old soccer net Orissa where I played like an off tank, Winston Sigma and you could play split where Sigma kind of held a secondary angle with one other team member like a Brig... Yes, full holds at a choke did occur especially at lower ranks, but that was usually as a result of people not responding to the skilled check Heroes it doesn't matter how good you are at the heroes you cannot just run at Bastion behind on Orissa what's Heroes like Cassidy and torbjorn and think you're going to break the choke. That is still happening now, people running at Main like a bunch of lemmings without thinking about what's not working and what are we struggling to deal with. That's a hero design problem of Heroes that have too high of a value floor such as Bastion and Moira
I quit overwatch largely due to the format changing from 6v6 to 5v5. Being moderately casual I feel that 5v5 intensifies the need for everyone to be playing their A-Game every match. You can't have any weak links and it becomes obvious if you're going to win or lose within a minute or two, making the 5v5 format a slog to play. I think 6v6 OW1 allowed a bit more wiggle room for a bad player that 5v5 does not.
I'll be honest I'm team 6v6, and I will admit I'm probably looking back with rose tinted glasses, but I'd gladly go back to 2-2-2, even with the new heroes that have released since. Even if it means slowing the pace of the game down, or increasing my queue times for dps/supp. An example for lower ranks, is in 5v5 i could have a ball or doom as tank, diving into enemy backline, they could be doing gods work back there killing supps, but left our backline to deal with their kaiju of a tank and whether its our teams comp or whatever we get rolled and lose the fight, while our tank managed to get 3 before they died. Especially in lower ranks team comps feel super forced, tanks get forced into a rock paper scissors fight, tank buster dps like bastion dependant on enemy tank, and supp kiri being almost mandatory in a lot of situations. And while the same can be said in the 6v6 especially during must pick meta eras like double shield, or things of that sort, just from 6v6 being added back, it can add a lot more varience and less must pick scenarios, especially the rock paper scissor scenarios tanks have to go through currently. I say this with a grain of salt, and until it releases and gets played enough to find a hard meta. Cause 6v6 while it will bring a whole thing of seen and unforseen issues, being able to have at least at the start of these tests two tanks per team hopefully, will lead to more team play and team fights vesrus watching two kaijus duel and rest of the teams just being spectators, and also less we have a doom one trick and enemy team is running all counters guess this game a ggs loss.
Just an idea I've had but 6v6 open queue, with a min - max of 1-3 for DPS and healer and 1-2 for tank. This way you're guaranteed each role is filled, can play around with team comps depending on your situation, game mode and personal play styles, but also not overload any one role to an unbalanced point. Obviously this would come with its own list of problems but could be an interesting way for everyone to win
Yep. I loved being a main tank now and then but the real fun for me was playing off-tank. Or playing main tank with a very good off tank, something like a Zarya Rein combo.
THIS is why I left OW2, I liked to be able to play off-tank and just ENJOY being a Tank, you know, sometimes DVa, Zarya, opening spaces, but nooooo OW2 became a static job. 😢
People didn’t touch tank because of all the stuns lol. It was a game that needed highly communicative tanks to cycle abilities. Stuns are removed and tanks still requires good ability cycling. But 2 tanks will just make the game better
My guess is they are going to add an option where you can pick two of the three roles to swap between during a match. And they will limit the number of people in a given role to 3 for dps, but keep a limit of 2 for tanks and supports
7:26 Honestly as a tank player I know tank is the least played role and queue times will increase most likely if 6v6 does happen but I would be ok with that as long as it’s not too bad like 30min-1hr long queues
Honestly I think that the best case scenario is that they decide to make both 5v5 and 6v6 supported formats in OW2. If the games being too similar to each other is the problem then the solution is to have more ways to play the game that aren't gimmicks. For those who are unfamiliar with Team Fortress 2, in TF2 casual mode is 12v12, and the two main competitive formats are 6v6 (which has most classes at class limit 2 except for the ones that are very problematic when stacked) and Highlander which is a 9v9 format where each team comprises one of each of the nine classes.
I feel like they’re just going to add an unbalanced shittier version of 6v6 and go “see we told you it wouldn’t work!” Like OFC 6v6 will feel terrible with things like 3.5 sec dva matrix and mauga’s “HAHA.” Not to mention their massive hps
Ya'll are insane celebrating this. Listen - you are celebrating the fact that blizzard took away a paid version of ow1, brought in ow2 to siphon money from people, only to go back to back to 6v6 but keep their money monetizing machine.. dont forget.. no pve. no loot boxes. LOL😅😅😅 and you all think this is a win. Essentially, you are in an abusive relationship and keep going back for more abuse. I blame these content creators who made the issue about 6v6 when the issue is how corrupt blizzard is. If you don't hold them accountable then have fun keep getting it handed to you. FFS wake up.
I feel 6v6 is great! I always feel bad for tanks that are just trying, and they don't have anyone else to team up with. As a support, i always try to be in sync with the other support.
I agree with everything you said... Unfortunately very few actually analyse the game. They'd rather just vent and complain and that is whats seen as 'feedback'.
They introduced open queue ranked as an arcade mode in thr April 14 2020 patch notes. They introduced it as an official competitive mode in the June 30 2020 patch notes.
The slow gameplay of 6v6 is what made many people leave Overwatch previously, combined with the slow leak of content and the impossible balancing that made 1 comp OP for several seasons at a time.
Since OW2 dropped it’s never been the same playing without my duo tank; we’re both tank mains and deciding who gets to play tank when, especially when a new tank drops, is difficult
They went 5v5 to try the WoW dungeon group format but the OW team has always listened to the community feedback, even if it took long to imploment. Nothing wrong with trying to experiment and giving people what they want if things dont work out
Hey all, I've been gone from the game for about 3 years, hoping to get back into it. Good to see that nothing's changed, with a few new characters and an exorbitantly priced shop
I don't care about his points because past all of that I'd still rather play 6v6 over 5v5 any day. The fact that it required strategy is what made overwatch different. Now it's just like every other shooter. It's just who can get the most kills and spend the most money.
part of OW1’s flair and likability was the absolute chaos in a match with the two tanks combo-ing ultimates and coordinating endlessly so this’ll be super exciting to play again 5v5 just doesn’t work in role queue and they always devolve into either: whichever team can get tempo and roll eachother’s first, or whichever has the worse tank
Omg, thank goodness, honestly just as a veteran player perspective- I never had an issue with 6v6, yeah matches were longer, but like...if I don't want a long game just play QP or a different game. Having two tanks just PLAYED and FELT so much better? One tank had a designated peeling job or chasing kills/high ground control or low ground....vs. the other who prioritized staying with the team and would call on the other tank when needed for help or when making plays. When it's just one tank, you're expected to do EVERYTHING and EVERYONE'S job for some reason? Like I can't count the amount of times I play D. Va and its just NEVER good enough to this new player base. Yet, I never see veterans complain when I have them on my team. One tank can't just continuously tank damage with no damage being done to the other team/ not enough pressure from the dps (in the right areas) and most supports don't realize that one ult should be used for assisting the tank where as the other could be for the dps...yet, I see 70% of the time the dps get most resources still? Like it's why I really appreciate the tank buffs. Cause if I couldn't have 6v6, I definitely wanted to be able to actually play the game and do what I need to despite what ever it is others think is more important, their duo, their barely even kd or what... I missed having a tank that shared the same struggles and we'd both work together to just put our brains together and help eachother when it FEELS like we're just not being helped. I've missed 6v6 since it's left. I never wanted it to changed because now it's just come to the point that no matter what I do, nothing I do is right or good enough. Which, I think makes playing the role genuinely unappealing for the tank players that love the role like me or have a favorite character (I love you still Rein Mains, I've never met a mean one) but just refuse to play anymore or some will quit midmatches because I've seen how NASTY people's own teammates get. Which I'm glad the report system is so much better now also, considering I've been harassed outside of the Game even after playing, it's ridiculous what tank players deal with. TLDR: GLAD 6V6 IS GONNA HOPEFULLY RETURN AND BE JUST AS FUN AS IT WAS IN OW
The thing is they'd have to rebalance having two tanks, I think that's probably the biggest endeavor here, balancing two separate formats. I'm kinda excited to see them test other stuff, tho. Maybe we'll get to play some of those team compositions they said they tested during the switch between OW1 and 2.
Plot twist: instead of 2 tanks it's 3 supports
6 healers
@@jameztrekdHealers? Run, they’re coming for you
@@jameztrekd 1 more word, and you will need a healer
@@vgrants1717 IM A SUPPORT NOT HEALER 😤😤😡😡🤬🤬💢💢
I'd rather have razors for teeth than play triple support lmao
"it was your birthday old man so I went easy on you" ~ Zarya to Rein. Would be neat to hear old tank interactions again
Curious. Do those voice lines no longer exist in open que?
@@albionpewpew I think they do still exist
@@albionpewpew Yes and no. The old interactions don't exist, but there are new ones. There are even scenario-specific ones, like the "Now this is a strong team" zarya voiceline which seems to trigger only if the team comp has 4 tanks or more.
Never tapped on a video this fast in my life
ON GOD
I’m telling you lol I seen it on my freaking notification bubble
Legit the case for everyone
FACTS
ONG
As a tank player. 6v6 was fun. 5v5 is a chore.
I'm Flex Tank and Support, and 5v5 was the reason I quit OW. I like to play, not to "work".
@@GabrielxDesignsame here, not to mention, I don't know if it was the switch to f2p but nobody would stay grouped with the team, so it just turned into a series of 1 or 2v5s while I yell for ppl to group up.
I started playing after the announcement of this and the game seems much better, just because more people either join VC, mic or not, or they're actually trying to communicate and group up. I had a single bad match all day this morning :)
Rose colored glasses. I lived through double shield, there were like three Orisa centric comps that were just absolutely horrible to play against.
@@nuclearsimian3281 the solution there can be a well placed Sombra and other DPS class, nowadays it feels like you lose one member and you've lost the team fight sometimes. Feels a little better now but I've also come back after not playing since ov2 launched
@@GabrielxDesign
It was a deciding factor for me too.
The final nail was them completely miss handling the PVE.
So... We're getting Overwatch 1 before Overwatch 2.
We are getting OW1+ 😂
It was always overwatch 1 where have you been
@@Eis7 lol OW2 never existed
@@nex5691 fr
One thing I’ll love about having 6v6 back is tank interactions in the spawn rooms again.
Yeah also less tank pressure
I miss playing with my fellow tank.
Now people can't blame the tank lol
@@Basement_Gnome or atleast they won’t be targeting the one role with 1 player as the point of fault lol
I especially miss tank ultamite combos, like grav and dva bomb
The thumbnail was evil it looked exactly like an official overwatch thumbnail 😂
9v9 3 tanks 3 dps 3 healers
Dmg queue times 30 mins😂
Honestly, 7v7 (no role queue) would be awesome still and allow for the creativity the game used to have
SUPPORTS
@@thekillers1stfanWhat if it was role que but the 7th person is a flex role
Dude no 3 v3 one tank one dps and one support
6v6 is the only reason i'll play Overwatch again. Gave up on the game since Season 1 OW2
same.
Same!
SAMMEEE!!
I miss having a tank buddy so much, i just dont think there are changes they can make that will feel as good as just having another tank to synergize with and pick up slack
Wild to get overwatch 1 again before gta6
Somewhere I've lost a bet. damnit
a step in the right direction but no where near back to overwatch 1.
Dude I keep seeing people on different games and science articles talk about gta6 like what’s the story with that anyways?
Like we might even get a kingdom hearts 4 before that lol
@@AquaMusica305The games been in development since king tut was alive so it’s a meme that everything comes out before gta 6
That’s tough
6vs6: You couldn't live with your own failure, where did that bring you? Back to me
I got the reference
I understood that reference
@@TheLususNaturae I thought it what the Titanic said to Rose at the end of the movie
@@TheLususNaturae Oh cmon, you had to have chuckled at that.
@@sparquisdesade Jack: “Fine. I’ll do it myself”
6v6, FINALLY... I CAN HEAR REIN AND ZARYA INTERACTION IN SPAWN ROOM AGAIN!
return of the BUBBLECHARGE
Can’t wait to hear the JQ ram and mauga interaction with other tanks!
I can play junker queen as a legit off tank now 👏
Just go open que and you can do that.
Ooooh, bubblecharge has been sorely missed.
The bottom line is this: Tank is not a popular role, but without tank (i.e. tank players) the game dies. They took the least popular role, put a ton of extra pressure on it AND made it miserable to play. How do you fix this? Well, they could find a way to make the role less miserable within 5v5, they could eliminate the role entirely, they could remove role requirement, or they could force nontank players to wait in a longer queue while they find 2 tanks for them to play with.
I don't envy the team that has to try to fix this problem.
Everyone has their own one in a million, magic solution that would make the game perfect, but no one talks about how impossible this is for the dev team. I think their experiments and slow changes are the only way the game wouldn't implode while trying to make it "perfect". One drastic move can easily kill a game if it's made recklessly and without thought.
the long que time for tanks isnt cause no one wants to play tanks, tank was fun in 6v6 format, its cause tank feels like trash to play. Its funny cause they changed 2 tank format cause they wanted to cut costs for OWL teams by removing a player and cut tank que times, but in reality tank que times are basically the same as they were in OW1, cause tank is even worse cause they cut the skill floors to rock bottom with the projectile size changes, and increased the tanks health pools. Tank feels so boring to play vs and to play as, it as legitimately easier to kill a tank with their entire team in GOATS meta or double shield than it is to kill a tank SOLO in a 1v1, completely disgusting balancing.
@@jeremysalads7458 Fun is relative... But objectily speaking, people prefer playing damage IN ALL OTHER GAMES.
Sure they can make the tank experience better but who says it's more fun in 6v6? I played both and found it more fun to have the extra responsibility of being the ONE tank... After all tank players are into being punished ...no?
@@jeremysalads7458no? Tank que times are the same, yes. It's every other roles que times that was affected. DPS had monsterpus 9 minute que times, while tanks had a snap 30 second ones. And it's because nobody played the tank role. With 5v5 it's solved by literally cutting the amount of tanks needed for the match in half. So it leads to faster que times for literally everyone else
I once talked about the tank problem in another video, but basically I said this: tanking (in general) is a role that nobody likes, because if you make a mistake then the team will blame you, it requires the most knowledge and "leadership" of the entire group, and EVEN IF you manage to get the class to perfection 99% of the time nobody will care. It's, literally, a "thankless" job.
Is it a coincidence that as soon as the Marvel Rivals beta dropped, the exact next day OW released news of 6v6 returning? With the Marvel Rivals beta getting so many positive reviews, the dev’s know that a lot of OW gamers are gonna switch to Marvel Rivals once the full game drops. Blizzard knows they’re going to have to counter Marvel soon, so bringing 6v6 back is the only way to keep their game from losing even more players.
This is why competition is good.
@@Cruxis_Angelno? This isn’t competition, it’s smoke and mirrors, and you’re falling for it, again.
Marvel rival isn't even good
My worries for marvel rivals is that its new and shiny so ofc its fun things are unbalanced and its fun but when metas form and the flood gates are opened to all players then youll start seeing those similar complaints of balance and itll all depend on how the devs balance and react to that and how much content they put out thatll decide if its a true competitor or if itll die within a year im all for competition but its still very early to rlly call it competition against OW
@@jwash87Overwatch isn’t even that good
Are we forgetting that a major issue with 6v6 was 2CP? Alot of the issues presented here "poking at the choke" and "waiting for ults to come online" were exaggerated by 2CP. 2CP was basically Chokewatch. 2CP isnt a problem any more (but I do miss Hanamura, Volskya, and Temple of Annubis)
Bro dive match ups on Volskya was unmatched
that and double shield meta was a nightmare to balance. Now Orisa is reworked, it should be fine...?
UNLESS RAM/SIGMA IS THE NEW DOUBLE SHIELD META
Are we also forgetting they are bringing back overwatch 1 again.....like literally....there was no point in making the a 2
Would love to have those maps back. Miss them very much
The majority of issues with 6v6 involved que times and player agency, not 2cp. They go over this a lot in the blog.
it instantly went all over my screen once i looked at the notification on my phone
I don’t wanna know what that “It” is 😂
My phone caught fire like a switch trying to run 6v6
@@SpaceBxrr semen
This is where the fun begins.[or torment]
@@sparquisdesadeI played on the switch with 6v6 and it runs just about the same as 5v5
Inherently the core design of Overwatch will always have balance issues. In a world where every different hero has different abilities it can never be truly balanced. It can be brought to a tolerable level. And every now and then something totally broken is actually quite fun.
I agree. The community should talk less about balance and more about inherent issues if they want to change the format of the game. I believe that if they want to keep the solo playstyle that ow2 has become, they need to make a different game.
So much of what was used to justify 5v5 could be solved with more regular (and better) balancing and design. It's not the format itself per se.
I agree wholeheartedly. The answer is not as simple as 6v6.
@@wusaintyes but 5v5 inherently is imbalanced because one role HAS to be better, whether it was 1 tank, dps, or support it doesn’t work. Having exactly the same amount of each role per team allows for a good basis of balance to build from. Therefore 6v6 is a better format
@@psgelcapitan2451 I wouldn't really say that's why 6v6 is the "better format." I think a huge issue is the design of many of the tanks were never meant to be the only tank. Hog, Ball, Dva, etc.... And on that note many of the original heroes altogether are getting left behind by the newer heroes. Just look at Rein's kit compared to say Ram's. Or compare damn near the entire support lineup to Kiri.
One thing is really simple here, DPS has vastly more characters than both Support and Tank. Of course people will gravitate more towards DPS, because it has more options.
Because most people wanna play damage anyways.. lol it's not chicken or the egg. It's just simple fact of life... We gotta admit it.
Damage is more fun.
Wrong. It has nothing to do with hero selection. Too put it simply, and tank players love to say this as why they dont like 5v5, they don't want to get hit with CC and damage as their job. They want to deal it. Period.
@@ReaveIdono Wrong. I didn't claim what I said was the one and only exclusive cause. What I said isn't wrong, just not the entire truth. But to expand on what I said: Let's say all DPS and Tanks feel equally satisfying to play, logically, more people will gravitate to DPS simply because there are way more options. You might be a Tank player, but you "really like playing Genji"
@Spika94 Do you know what It means to simplify the complex issue down to the single digestible point? It means you are implying this is the reason for the complex issue. Which completely ignores what current Tank players are crying about across all ranks.
The fact still remains is Tank players do NOT want to be tanks. They want to be fat DPS because they lack the mechanical skill to play Genji... The Tanks allow them more health to make more stupid mistakes that would get them utterly destroyed on Genji lol.
14:00 - Competitive Open Queue was introduced as "Season 1" during Season 21 (March 5, 2020 - 7 months after the Beta Role Queue in August 2019). There was a "Season 2" of Competitive Open Queue during Season 22, then it merged into core competitive we all know now as just Open Queue alongside the Role Queue for Season 23.
The shroud of the balance team has fallen. Begun, the 6v6 wars has...
@@solidzaku2 begun the the tank wars have
I sense a disturbance in the meta…
I just watched this movie last night, laughed so hard
I can hear the theme already...
@@daj27 the tank wars are now lol however once 6v6 comes back if there are not a bunch of nerfs for that mode then I fear we will end up with revenge of the tanks lol
As someone who has over 3000 hours on Overwatch & stopped playing a year ago, if they bring 6v6 back ill consider playing again
Same here homie.
I'm about to go from 2 games a day before wanting to smash my tv to actually fully playing OW again
I haven’t played in years. I can’t wait to return. I miss those peak times. The moment 6v6 comp returns, I’m queuing back in.
You will probably move on after a few games. I don't know if you re one of the cry babies who just complain even though they didnt play ow2 for more than 1 hour, but all those ppl who grave for ow1 are imo looking for those nostalgic ow1 experiences which they won't receive (sadly), I guess. So all those babies - again probably not u but the crying is really annoying - will play a few rounds and abandon the game again and all the work from the devs was basically for nothing 😂 but I'm excited what they gonna do with the 6v6 plan
who cares man you're an oldhead just let it go
I love that Aaron is talking to us about this and with so much transparency. As players, its easy to underestimate how much work goes into making any significant changes, and as much as we might go "just add a separate game mode for it," its never that simple.
except.....its overwatch 1 again.....4 years for this?
@@sandyk9300 Yes, they just failed to make OW2; that's all. Most teams would have cancelled the uninspired, unimpressive PvE internally and we never would have even heard about it. But Jeff wrongly believed he was better than the industry and could not fail, and so went up on stage and promised the world AND dropped his previous baby so he could work on the new baby, and failed utterly.
Except it literally is, people did it in the workshop, 6 vs 6 shouldn’t have to take multiple more season to get added back into the game, should be added overnight
Bro loves long speeches. "It all started with the Big Bang", haha. TL;DR is just 4 sentences long. But it was a good look at the evolution of the game though
@@Femboy_Grey Have you tried playing it on PS4? Switch? With 2 Echos copying 2 Ram ults, plus 2 Ram ults, plus 2 Mauga ults? In their new lighting+weather system? They can't just make sure it works 99.9% of the time, because with thousands of games going on at once that means there will be dozens crashing constantly. Note they said *MEMORY* issues, not just performance.
Wait... I thought 6v6 was LITERALLY flat earth???
It turns out, the earth may indeed be flat! Take that lemon earthers!
The addition of more unique/niche tank heros, smarter map design/reworks, and reducing CC could all lead to a better 6v6 tank experience and possibly more people queueing for the role
Oh, 6 Torbs with armor packs, how I miss thee.
Armor packs were a mistake
Come get chor' Amor! : D
IMMMMMMM GIVIN IT ALL IVE GOT
I miss armor. They should add a mode where everyone has their original abilities
@@wingedbluj1674why
If we’re poking at the choke then couldn’t you argue that’s a map design flaw not a format flaw? Why not make multiple entries for engagements or wider chokes?
Facts cause if you’re making it a one way in choke point it’s definitely map design
THIS!!!!!
For some reason maps feel way too small for 2 tanks, ow1 felt like there was enough space but it feels like the maps have shrunk
Dive would become very very strong
shhh they'd rather gaslight you into thinking it was a 6v6 issue
I think we can give a big thanx to the 6v6 PUG scene for getting traction on this. That, and everyone throwing their hat into the ring to discuss it, no matter their position.
Funny this comes the day after marvel rivals beta launch too lol
It's because they now have competition showing a better game and a better format. And people noticed.
@@chuddolomite5 No they don't lmao.
I think its fine to speculate why they did this but this was decided on already by them before aaron's interview with flats a while ago. He was told not to ask 6v6 questions because they had plans to talk about it already after putting the research and data together to give their input and decisions well. Rivals beta is clearly just coincidence. Having said that, competition is good and it'll definitely get the attention of executives to help the devs in making the choices they want to make.
Your arguments for keeping 5v5 are so bad blizzard has to be paying you
Overwatch 1 Season 1 Rein veteran here...the sun will shine on me and my zarya once again...
KNEW this was coming last night when my end of game winning team lineup was off center like a 6th person was missing
Wait, what? No way... did you grab a screen cap?
@@sparquisdesade i didn't unfortunately. Didn't even think about it at the time. Just saw it and went "ha, its off center like it's the end screen for 6v6. Unless it just looks that way because I'm [Ana] sitting down on the righ-no yeah, it's off center"
Ya same thing happened to me
6v6 Might actually get me to return to the game. OW2 never felt like the 'home' OW1 was. It will be interesting to see the metrics when the test goes live!
Sitting in the choke and having long team fights still exists. 5v5 might have more single impact, but one player holding 50% of the win condition creates a similar issue.
For the tank queue issue, I’d look at the top500 leaderboard. In ow1, top500 tank was always gm, usually gm1-gm3. In ow2, it’s in Diamond in NA and EU, and there aren’t even 500 tank players in Asia in Diamond and above with 50 wins.
If they add rewards for queuing tank or other roles (mythic coins or overwatch coins) more people might be more incentivized to pick different roles.
Did you watch the video? They've tried countless things and nothing ever made the slightest difference
@@josuebarboza9809 that doesn't mean they give up trying new things though
I don’t know about anybody else, but if I were able to get mythic coins for playing tank, I would definitely do it
The phara mercy synergy was far more oppressive to your average ow player than any tank synergy. I know, I was average.
We might be so back
For people getting super hyped just reading the title: 6v6 is not 100% back yet. They're going to run tests with different 6v6 formats in the game. The tests are for them to gather feedback and decide OW's future. So, 6v6 COULD be back...
Well they would be idiotic not to add it back. A vast majority of the overwatch community would come back
My idea is to bring back 6v6 once a month for 5 days in a quick play hacked every month, and if you don't want to play it, just play comp.
6v6 is the way. OW peaked in 16-18 when it was open queue 6v6.
They’ll push it through or lose to marvels game.
@@pablosnackbar6417Woah you're saying that Overwatch peaked when it was a new game, winning game of the Year awards? You're blowing my mind here.
@@FatPigeon-6they'd have to play this test and openly show support it's not just inherently gonna get a landslide of people we gotta put in work and try to get new and old players to play it to get enough support to show that people want this
having 6v6 back i'd be fine with but if role queue gets removed i'll never play this game again, i can't go back to being the only support/tank in a team of reaper, hanzo, genji, widow and junkrat
I think we might end up with something similar to other games... A "soft role queue".
You'd queue your roles and get a role comp, like 1-3-2 or 2-2-2 or 2-1-3. (Or 3 tanks but that would be very rare and inefficient since few tank mains)
Then it would match you with a similar comp.
However i think it would usually default to 1-3-2 since most people queue damage.
This might also apply to 5v5 though.. and that might also be interesting.. however will also default to one tank.
The 6v6 players will see for themselves how many tanks queue and will still be frustrated by the REALITY that exists in ALL GAMES.
Just hope this experiment doesn't mess up the game too much... Because there's a silent majority who just play the game and don't complain... Or they just stop playing.
19:09 no the reason why so many players left was the lack of updates and content to re-release an inferior version of the game.
The things 5v5 stans go to say how it’s better. Every single one of them forgets 6v6 sucked at the end was because they abandoned the game to make 5v5.
It would be funny if they had something like a request role swap in role que so that people that say “let’s see you do better” get proven.
How the turn tables
huh?
@@chingatu6644table turn how now
@@chingatu6644office reference
How tables the turn
Tables how turn the
Content creators fr the biggest bots out there talking about how 6v6 back is just a nostalgia thing and not going to fix anything to a complete flip as soon as blizzard says it might happen.
My face has lit up again over the past 6-7 years of playing this game I’ve never been so happy
This was a good Director’s Take. And you know why it was good? He didn’t call a large portion of the Overwatch community flat earthers for feeling the way they do. And why would they do that? It would be absolutely wild of someone to do such a thing and then not swallow their pride and apologize for it.
He basically opened his heart telling the whole development process since day 1 😢
This a great change. The biggest problem with 5v5 is the fact Tank weaknesses are very glaring. Rein has no range, Hog can't protect his team, doom can't face tank and etc. that's why counterpicking is so prevalent. No amount of buffs can maje up for glaring weaknesses
It’s just a test run dude.
@@nycempirestate4689 this is still a great change in direction. And ppl are going to naturally know it's better
Who says that it will be 2 tanks? The most popular role is DPS. It makes more sense to be 3dps,1 tank, 2 supports. Why increase the number of tanks when it's the least popular role. And it's not the least popular role because you get focused, it was the least popular role even when there were two tanks.
@@chrisb5000 this makes no sense lmao
@@Nube_Negrah it makes all the sense in the world. Why increase The least popular role if you don't have enough people to play it with only having one in the team. And even when there were two it was still the least popular role in the game that nobody wanted to play or pick.
Marvel rivals has them shook
No ones gonna play that shit lol
@@jpuc5568 everyones literally playing it lol. Cope harder tho.
@@jpuc5568why do you not want competition?
@@kyleledeadboi6810bro saw Samito and Flats playing, and he thinks everyone is playing it lmao🗿🗿🗿
@@youngty7174 most ppl are on the game tho
Had to double check it wasn’t April 1st
I love how Blizzard tried to imply that people were picking so many damage characters as the reason why they put in role lock, when really it was GOATS they were trying to kill lol
I mean it depends on where you were on the rank ladder. At low diamond and below goats was rarely seen. I'm willing to bet I saw it played 5 times or less that entire time at my rank. For the streamers and pros then sure they saw it every single game.
You know what else fixes it besides role lock? The draft mode or hero bans that Freedo has been wanting to see for years.
@castlevaniaking5 My friends and I used to 6 stack and only play goats in low diamond~.
Was super fun, but I get that it got stale for the majority of the playerbase due to it sticking around for so long.
That's a really funny statement considering GOATS was never seen in non-stacked lobbies below high Diamond. Why was that? BECAUSE NOBODY PICKED TANK. Why are you trying to throw this revisionist nonsense out like 2018 casual OW wasn't a steamroll simulator, on account of the Shimada/Widow onetricks throwing games by existing?
@@dashieldmasta177 Honestly can't relate to this, been a tank main since i started playing and never looked back since. Played Rein/Zarya through the ladder from low gold up to GM, I've had more non-stacked GOATS than anything else. Not trying to throw any nonsense out, but none of us can deny that Blizz was actively trying to murder GOATS
Bring back the gooooooooooooats baby!
Marvel Rivals with 6v6 getting all the attention.
Overwatch shitting bricks and decided to talk about bringing back 6v6 but bitching about all the upgrades to make 5v5 so that 6v6 wont work lol.
With regards to queue time for tank. Just make the tanks interesting to play. Look at how tanks are on Marvel Rivals .
can't wait for them to change it back to 6v6 only for people to say that they want 5v5 back in 1 year after they get tired of that too
Took the words out of my mouth.
except that wont happen unless the balance team is even worse for 6v6 than 5v5. people didnt get tired of 6v6, they got tired of no content updates, balancing, and a forced stale meta. The only people that want 5v5 back are legitimate terrible players.
@@jeremysalads7458 good thing people will definetly not complain about queue times
@@biggreenmantis5639 surely *clueless*
6v6, open queue, no hero limits. When the first 2 changed, I moved to mystery heroes. When 5v5/OW2 was introduced, I stopped playing.
I haven't looked at an OW video in 4 months. But this might get me back into the game
I might be one of few or one of many, but I used to play tank a lot, wasn't my main, but would actually queue all roles all the time. But ever since OW2 other than placements, I haven't touched tank.
I like it how it is now. The only thing I would change is the first person into the lobby can pick whoever they want but once the role was filled the heroes in that role would no longer be available
It would be cooler if we didn't have to wait until season 13 to just play test :v but imo jusr drop support for Switch and last gen consoles. Being limited to toasters is crazy
I think there will be more tank players if the format goes to 6v6. I cant say if it will be enough to offset the opening, but I would love to play as a 2nd tank, rather than the sole focus of the enemy team. It feels like I have minimal agency as tank in the current format.
Did you even watch the video? The blog post itself tells us this isn't and has never been the case. Tank is wildly unpopular, queue times are bad exactly because of 2 tank role queue. The cope that somehow shooting zarya bubbles on other tanks or fighting multiple barriers shoved into your face is more fun than the game is right now, and will bring people back is so disappointing. Real evidence doesn't mean anything to 6v6ers and somehow they subjectively also found the slower more restrictive version of the game more fun.
@@secretlyaslug2325stop being logical, they don't do that around here
I’m a tank main and haven’t played since they dropped 6v6. If we get this back in comp, I’ll return to hold the front lines for you again, my friend. Miss my tank synergy homies.
PLEEEEEAAAASE DEAR GOD LET ME PLAY OFF TANK DVA AGAIN
@@secretlyaslug2325 yes, however that was prior to adding attack heavy tanks. The prior iteration was defense heavy save hog, or ball who most players dont touch. Now theres doom, junker, mauga. Orissa being shieldless leans to a more aggressive playstyle too. Its now more engaging to be a tank, assuming theres a second to offset the weakness inherent in each.
There is actually no way we are getting ow1 back LMAO WE REALLY HAD YEARS OF NO CONTENT FOR NOTHING HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
My friends and I always thought having a "Flex" role would be super useful. A player on a team that has all heroes available. This allows more variety of team comp while still ensuring one or more of a certain role. There were a couple ideas we threw around with this: 1Tank 1Dps 1Support 3Flex. 2Tank 1Dps 1Support 2Flex. I think if they did this it would have to be 2 or more on a team for it to actually impact anything, but it was a cool idea.
I've dropped Overwatch a good while before 2 even came out but due to a lot of upsetting choices and mistakes from Blizzard and the dev team I've refused to give it a try again since it seemed greed and money were the only driving force left behind this game.
But I am still keeping up with the news and I would tune in again if they ever cared to fix their flaws. While this does not address the ridiculous monetisation, I do really appreciate the transparency and genuine tone in this blogpost. It doesn't feel like corporate pandering for once and it's truly giving me a bit of hope for this game moving forward. I would love to see a future where Overwatch becomes about creating a fun experience for the casual gamer again, even if it entails a bit of chaos.
This is going to be a hard pill to swallow for you but no matter how many vods you watch and games you play your opinion only becomes more alienated from the majority. The reason why the tips and tricks videos used to work so well was that people loved the base game so much that they were willing to watch videos to be better, and that number affirmation slowly desensitized you to what the actual average player is. The real reason most people played was the passion and personality that oozed from every character dev update and change that overwatch made. The moment they prioritized competitive viability OVER the fun was when the game died. The game lost the main reason it was pulling players in the first place, give balancing opinions all you want but this format of overwatch videos is what killed the game for the majority. 6v6 this 5v5 that, nothing is fully balanced and people continue to prove to game developers that they really don’t know what the game needs just what they want. You want a game thats perfect just for you? Make your own game instead of bitching to game developers who spent thousands of hours more than you studying design principles and working with the actual numbers instead of your biased opinion where, lets be honest, for most people is based on your favorite overwatch creator and no actual thought. And don’t think that I’m saying this because I’ve never cared about the viability of the competitive aspect of the game, for the longest time in overwatch one I was the people watching you and studying vods to improve my gameplay. The only reason I say this now is because of the new perspective I’ve gotten as I get older and have less and less time to constantly study the optimal way to play. At one point I realized that the only reason most people play the game anymore is no longer about liking a character and human interactions but because we think as long as the game is perfectly balanced then the game will be fun again. We ruined the game and I’m forever sad that we made such a passionate team lose the spark that they had in the beginning. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, we crashed the train long ago and are now walking to different destinations thinking each way is the right way. The worst part is that we never even tried fixing the train :/.
As soon as I saw this on Twitter I immediately thought "that bald dude from YourOverwatch is gonna hate this" lol
He's not married to 5v5 he's was just stuck defending mostly... Still doesn't mean 6v6 will be a magic bullet like everyone thinks it will be.
Never tried 6v6 and as a tank player I'll be thrilled to try it 😊
I can't explain to you how bad I feel outplaying another tank by miles, cause I know that feeling as when I'm not... There's my whole team who blames only me and no one else when I can't do nothing 😔
Tank is a critical role in 5v5 and I really don't like it. My mental is hecking gone.
Trust me grab yourself a tank buddy and play together it will be Soo much fun
That’s what I’m saying bro, back in OW1 I was a tank main but the pressure of solo tank in OW2 burns me out so quick after a few games. Things were so much more fun in the past
As a member of the old guard, a metal rank main tank player for those who still remember what that is. Are you still honestly think that a lot of the people don't want to play tank psychology would be mitigated in 66 because of their new tank design philosophy. It's worth remembering just how few tanks we had access to an OverWatch one and how each of them operated. Adding more tanks that almost universally fit very well into what we used to call the off tank role what's more diverse kits I think would pull a lot of people into the role if the devs and Community got behind something like that. I would love to be able to pull out Rinehart with remata, or Rinehart with junker queen, or run dive lineups with Winston wrecking ball Diva and doomfist obviously we still want them to keep adding more tanks but even with the ones they've added it gives more options to those three core play styles that we have. Even with that, speaking as a main tank player, I never had much issue using my core Heroes with any other tank with the exception of roadhog. For example, I played Winston with just about anything classic Winston Diva dive, Winston wrecking ball splitting gauges, Winston Zaria Double Bubble Winston Ryan and I would play offtake and peel my back line or bubble off Ryan's engaged so he could swing inside bubble, similar deal with old soccer net Orissa where I played like an off tank, Winston Sigma and you could play split where Sigma kind of held a secondary angle with one other team member like a Brig...
Yes, full holds at a choke did occur especially at lower ranks, but that was usually as a result of people not responding to the skilled check Heroes it doesn't matter how good you are at the heroes you cannot just run at Bastion behind on Orissa what's Heroes like Cassidy and torbjorn and think you're going to break the choke. That is still happening now, people running at Main like a bunch of lemmings without thinking about what's not working and what are we struggling to deal with.
That's a hero design problem of Heroes that have too high of a value floor such as Bastion and Moira
I quit overwatch largely due to the format changing from 6v6 to 5v5.
Being moderately casual I feel that 5v5 intensifies the need for everyone to be playing their A-Game every match. You can't have any weak links and it becomes obvious if you're going to win or lose within a minute or two, making the 5v5 format a slog to play.
I think 6v6 OW1 allowed a bit more wiggle room for a bad player that 5v5 does not.
With Marvel Rivals being 6v6 and their biggest competitor now, this makes the most sense.
I'll be honest I'm team 6v6, and I will admit I'm probably looking back with rose tinted glasses, but I'd gladly go back to 2-2-2, even with the new heroes that have released since. Even if it means slowing the pace of the game down, or increasing my queue times for dps/supp. An example for lower ranks, is in 5v5 i could have a ball or doom as tank, diving into enemy backline, they could be doing gods work back there killing supps, but left our backline to deal with their kaiju of a tank and whether its our teams comp or whatever we get rolled and lose the fight, while our tank managed to get 3 before they died. Especially in lower ranks team comps feel super forced, tanks get forced into a rock paper scissors fight, tank buster dps like bastion dependant on enemy tank, and supp kiri being almost mandatory in a lot of situations. And while the same can be said in the 6v6 especially during must pick meta eras like double shield, or things of that sort, just from 6v6 being added back, it can add a lot more varience and less must pick scenarios, especially the rock paper scissor scenarios tanks have to go through currently. I say this with a grain of salt, and until it releases and gets played enough to find a hard meta. Cause 6v6 while it will bring a whole thing of seen and unforseen issues, being able to have at least at the start of these tests two tanks per team hopefully, will lead to more team play and team fights vesrus watching two kaijus duel and rest of the teams just being spectators, and also less we have a doom one trick and enemy team is running all counters guess this game a ggs loss.
W
I'm excited for the testing
the mauga cage into sig ult is gonna go wild
good. its about time combo's do something instead of getting mitigated by a single support ability
Just an idea I've had but 6v6 open queue, with a min - max of 1-3 for DPS and healer and 1-2 for tank.
This way you're guaranteed each role is filled, can play around with team comps depending on your situation, game mode and personal play styles, but also not overload any one role to an unbalanced point.
Obviously this would come with its own list of problems but could be an interesting way for everyone to win
I would queue for tank again if I wasn’t the only tank.
True. The game might need half the tanks, but about half the tanks don’t play tank anymore
It’s good for hyper competitive people like me but bad for casuals
Yep. I loved being a main tank now and then but the real fun for me was playing off-tank. Or playing main tank with a very good off tank, something like a Zarya Rein combo.
if they bring 6 v 6 back. I can finally off-tank once again. YIPPEE!!
As much as I'm thankful for Aarons post.... like I said... it IS all talk until its actually in the game.
You mean be DPS? That shit is one reason 6v6 had problems, people like you not doing YOUR DAMN JOB AS A TANK!
THIS is why I left OW2, I liked to be able to play off-tank and just ENJOY being a Tank, you know, sometimes DVa, Zarya, opening spaces, but nooooo OW2 became a static job. 😢
Let’s not forget, people didn’t want to play tank but in OW1 I don’t think adding another tank is gonna really change that
I won't touch the tank role in overwatch 2 unless I'm in open queue which I rarely play, however in overwatch 1 I actually enjoyed the tank role.
People didn’t touch tank because of all the stuns lol. It was a game that needed highly communicative tanks to cycle abilities. Stuns are removed and tanks still requires good ability cycling. But 2 tanks will just make the game better
man if only there are way more tank options to choose from in ow2.
Think about the tank matchups
People didn't play tank because dps had twice as much in the roster and they didn't balance the game. Next question
My guess is they are going to add an option where you can pick two of the three roles to swap between during a match.
And they will limit the number of people in a given role to 3 for dps, but keep a limit of 2 for tanks and supports
Everything he mentioned about the positives of 6v6 is what we want back damnit. THAT was fun.
I prefer 5v5, feels less frenzied. Not a huge fan of 6v6 or tanking
Exactly…6v6 ain it.
Same here it's the main reason i never really got into ow in the first place. I cannot understand the hype behind it.
Bro is fighting shadows in anticipation of arguing with Samito in the podcast.
I CAN FINALLY PLAY OFFTANK AGAIN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
7:26 Honestly as a tank player I know tank is the least played role and queue times will increase most likely if 6v6 does happen but I would be ok with that as long as it’s not too bad like 30min-1hr long queues
Honestly I think that the best case scenario is that they decide to make both 5v5 and 6v6 supported formats in OW2. If the games being too similar to each other is the problem then the solution is to have more ways to play the game that aren't gimmicks.
For those who are unfamiliar with Team Fortress 2, in TF2 casual mode is 12v12, and the two main competitive formats are 6v6 (which has most classes at class limit 2 except for the ones that are very problematic when stacked) and Highlander which is a 9v9 format where each team comprises one of each of the nine classes.
I feel like they’re just going to add an unbalanced shittier version of 6v6 and go “see we told you it wouldn’t work!”
Like OFC 6v6 will feel terrible with things like 3.5 sec dva matrix and mauga’s “HAHA.” Not to mention their massive hps
Dude this guy just talks
Ya'll are insane celebrating this.
Listen - you are celebrating the fact that blizzard took away a paid version of ow1, brought in ow2 to siphon money from people, only to go back to back to 6v6 but keep their money monetizing machine..
dont forget.. no pve. no loot boxes.
LOL😅😅😅 and you all think this is a win.
Essentially, you are in an abusive relationship and keep going back for more abuse.
I blame these content creators who made the issue about 6v6 when the issue is how corrupt blizzard is. If you don't hold them accountable then have fun keep getting it handed to you.
FFS wake up.
No, actual plot twist. 6v6 but it’s 1 Tank, 3 DPS, 2 Support
I feel 6v6 is great! I always feel bad for tanks that are just trying, and they don't have anyone else to team up with. As a support, i always try to be in sync with the other support.
Too godamn late
OW is back
So back
I agree with everything you said... Unfortunately very few actually analyse the game. They'd rather just vent and complain and that is whats seen as 'feedback'.
They introduced open queue ranked as an arcade mode in thr April 14 2020 patch notes. They introduced it as an official competitive mode in the June 30 2020 patch notes.
This was a really well written blog and a good insight into their thought processes. They should be more open like this more frequently.
The slow gameplay of 6v6 is what made many people leave Overwatch previously, combined with the slow leak of content and the impossible balancing that made 1 comp OP for several seasons at a time.
Since OW2 dropped it’s never been the same playing without my duo tank; we’re both tank mains and deciding who gets to play tank when, especially when a new tank drops, is difficult
They went 5v5 to try the WoW dungeon group format but the OW team has always listened to the community feedback, even if it took long to imploment. Nothing wrong with trying to experiment and giving people what they want if things dont work out
Hey all,
I've been gone from the game for about 3 years, hoping to get back into it. Good to see that nothing's changed, with a few new characters and an exorbitantly priced shop
I don't care about his points because past all of that I'd still rather play 6v6 over 5v5 any day. The fact that it required strategy is what made overwatch different. Now it's just like every other shooter. It's just who can get the most kills and spend the most money.
part of OW1’s flair and likability was the absolute chaos in a match with the two tanks combo-ing ultimates and coordinating endlessly so this’ll be super exciting to play again
5v5 just doesn’t work in role queue and they always devolve into either: whichever team can get tempo and roll eachother’s first, or whichever has the worse tank
Omg, thank goodness, honestly just as a veteran player perspective-
I never had an issue with 6v6, yeah matches were longer, but like...if I don't want a long game just play QP or a different game.
Having two tanks just PLAYED and FELT so much better? One tank had a designated peeling job or chasing kills/high ground control or low ground....vs. the other who prioritized staying with the team and would call on the other tank when needed for help or when making plays.
When it's just one tank, you're expected to do EVERYTHING and EVERYONE'S job for some reason? Like I can't count the amount of times I play D. Va and its just NEVER good enough to this new player base. Yet, I never see veterans complain when I have them on my team.
One tank can't just continuously tank damage with no damage being done to the other team/ not enough pressure from the dps (in the right areas) and most supports don't realize that one ult should be used for assisting the tank where as the other could be for the dps...yet, I see 70% of the time the dps get most resources still? Like it's why I really appreciate the tank buffs.
Cause if I couldn't have 6v6, I definitely wanted to be able to actually play the game and do what I need to despite what ever it is others think is more important, their duo, their barely even kd or what...
I missed having a tank that shared the same struggles and we'd both work together to just put our brains together and help eachother when it FEELS like we're just not being helped.
I've missed 6v6 since it's left. I never wanted it to changed because now it's just come to the point that no matter what I do, nothing I do is right or good enough.
Which, I think makes playing the role genuinely unappealing for the tank players that love the role like me or have a favorite character (I love you still Rein Mains, I've never met a mean one) but just refuse to play anymore or some will quit midmatches because I've seen how NASTY people's own teammates get.
Which I'm glad the report system is so much better now also, considering I've been harassed outside of the Game even after playing, it's ridiculous what tank players deal with.
TLDR: GLAD 6V6 IS GONNA HOPEFULLY RETURN AND BE JUST AS FUN AS IT WAS IN OW
1 Tank + 2 dps + 2 support + 1 jack of all trades that can swap to any hero regardless of role would be interesting
This just makes it obvious that tank as a class is fundamentally a problem in a game like this. And their solution was to just double down.
The thing is they'd have to rebalance having two tanks, I think that's probably the biggest endeavor here, balancing two separate formats. I'm kinda excited to see them test other stuff, tho. Maybe we'll get to play some of those team compositions they said they tested during the switch between OW1 and 2.