I really like the fact that Steve was worried about being seen as the next Ian, and he wound up winning his first HoH by accident during a double eviction... just like Ian
Tbf, only Steve knew it was an accident (unless he told people) and only super fans would remember a detail like that. So the only on in the house at the time that would make the connection would be Steve himself.
@@ameliarose47 yeah. I don’t think this fact contributes to him being compared to Ian at all. I just like the coincidence of how they’re broadly considered the same and also have such an obscure and specific thing in common too.
Nothing wrong with being the next Ian. I hate how dismissive so-called superfans are towards Ian and his win. He proved you don't have to be a total sociopath to win.
@@ninedaysjane2466 Steve didn’t want to be the next Ian because being compared to any former winner is going to increase your threat level and hurt your chances of winning. Like how young women on Survivor are constantly targeted for being “the next Parvati” Now that Steve has won himself, I don’t know if he has any problem being compared to Ian, but I doubt it.
I find it funny Steve is one of the most unpopular winners of Modern Big Brother when he made the exact move that people always make fun of Cody for not doing.
@@galladanite72 idc how close they are in real life. I still would've cut Derrick EASILY plus there was no guarantee he'd be on all stars. If Derrick wasn't gonna be close to him after, then that says a lot about Derrick. Don't be fooled by him
cody and derrick had a final 2 for the whole game and derrick got him to the end. steve doesn’t owe vanessa anything. they didn’t have a final 2 from beginning to end. i probably would’ve done the same if i was cody but idk
True. Flashy players get more credit for entertainment. But under the radar players tend to win because they have less of a target on their back. These shows aren’t about big moves, it’s about socially maneuvering you way through the game.
The network did Steve a disservice with his show time, falling for his under-the-radar act that all the players fell for as well. I think watchers either thought Vanessa was robbed of her victory or didn't care that he won- and I think that is mostly attributed to not showing his long time social game.
That's true but at the same time iirc Steve personally stated he ended up being thankful for that in hindsight since it helped him slip under the radar after BB's season ended and had much less tedious publicity to deal with so I guess its a silver lining xD
100,000%, and that goes for so many players. The public narrative is affected by so many things, such as the edit, fan favorites, etc. that so often players will fall into a public perception that is not representative of the actual truth, and as time goes on and the season falls into the past, the narrative sticks
I remember at the time that there were some ridiculous comments online who think BB was rigged by CBS for Vanessa to win because apparently, she was "guaranteed a poker show on CBS", at least along those lines LOL. And then the conversation shifted by finale night and the comments turned delusional where now people thought she should have won because she "had the best game". To be fair, she did have the best game up until she was evicted, then she's not. Steve just bid his time to strike when the opportunity presented itself, especially after so many failed attempts to take her out. It was a winning move. :)
Steve is probably one of my favorite winners of all time. He's a genuinely good person, and he won comps, took out the biggest strategic threat, and knew the game inside and out before he ever walked through the doors.
I definitely think she would’ve voted for him if the vote wasn’t like 10 minutes after he blindsided her. If he wasn’t f4 hoh and won the veto and voted her out there instead I don’t think she’s bitter
@@wizardkumaanimations9984Her voting for Liz to win even though it was right after she got evicted shows that she is a low-IQ individual, even though she spent all season trying to convince us otherwise 😏
The whole point of the jury is to punish players who dont consider people's feelings. It's literally their whole point to encourage friendly play and punish the most effective and ruthless strategies because if no one likes you at the end, they'll vote for whoever you left at the end in your final 2. It's not "being bitter" it's literally fulfilling the function the entire mechanic is there for. If anything, players voting for "who played the game better" is the bad thing, because it encourages ruthless play, the already better strategy because you could rely on people recognising you "played the better game" (which you didn't, just the more ruthless and heartless one. Its way more skillful to win with a positive jury who actually like you)
@@bye1551 While i agree the social game is important and if you piss off the jury it's only fair that they get bitter But also If you'd rather have someone who did NOTHING win than someone who you don't like but played a very very good strategic game Then you're being a bit of a sore loser at that point tbh
@@tbranson6301 I was completely wrong about Steve. I thought he was going to be more of a Ronnie than an Ian. My only pre-season pick I got right was Derrick.
Fun fact, I go to the same college and am in the same major that Steve was! Some professors recall Steve telling them he had to miss a semester, but he couldn't say what, so people were naturally confused... then, there the whole school was, months later, sitting in the university commons watching him win (there is a video somewhere on RUclips of that, I was in middle school at the time, so clearly I wasn't there in person lol at least I saw it live on tv). I honestly didn't even catch the college and major coincidence until my sophomore year, like 5 or so months ago, when one of the professors saw me watching survivor and brought it up, which I find funny since I've watched the show with my mom since as long as I can remember. He's never brought up or randomly talked about because, why would he be? Anyone who went to school during his time there is long gone pretty much. But when you bring him up, everyone who did know him has nothing but good things to say about him! ALSO, I'm pretty sure he originally went to some top tier music school (Cornell I think) for his trombone playing, but didn't like the classical music aspect and wanted more of the audio engineering stuff, which is why he took a chance and transferred to a much smaller, less popular school (with a great music program!) Take this with a grain of salt, as I of course don't know him personally and don't want to speak for him completely based off of things I've heard.
The idea that Steve "robbed" Vanessa is ludacris. Even more ludacris, the idea that Vanessa was a better player than Steve. She was a different player. Not better or worse, just different.
love how this man keeps accidentally winning. like he can't help himself. imagine being someone so good at winning you literally can't stop yourself from doing it. hilarious
I also wanna point out, Steve indisputably played exactly how you SHOULD. Vanessa might get the best of nearly all but Steve is not one of those ppl and he slowly but surely proved himself. It was worth it
Season 17 was my first big brother season and I remember being so upset Vanessa lost to Steve but this video explaining his game made me finally respect his game for the first time
im glad i could help explain some things! it's totally okay to be upset with Vanessa winning, she played extremely well and was ridiculously good at dominating her way to the end, but i figured i'd do my best to try and explain the other side of the coin that wasn't shown off nearly as well on the show
@@thecamishere4344 yeah I see it now but at the time and for many years I was very bitter about it, but again this video definitely made me respect his game a whole lot more.
I’m glad you made this video. I remember when Steve won the F6 hoh thinking “who’s Steve?” Which is a testament to his strategic execution and a problem with how production chooses to edit their show. I definitely want to watch this season again with this different perspective of his game. Also his backstab of Vanessa at the final three reminds me of Janelle sending Will home at F4 in S7. Taking out the person who was “controlling” you when you have a clean shot.
And you shouldn't, this is revisionist history. It's easy to give credit to a winner after the fact, but luck played a huge role in his game. He's not a good winner and will never be
@@BeatleHead88 He may not be the best winner but I think he's one of the most interesting winners to talk about just because his game was very unique. He had a meat shield strategy which is pretty much having people be targeted before you, I've seen it on Survivor and it was worked perfectly for 2 winners even going back to Season 8
@@BeatleHead88 Why shouldn't someone give him credit? Laying low and letting others get dirty is a bad move? How? He didn't hide in a 37 person alliance like they do now. He did his best to keep everything in front of him. Plenty of winners had luck on their side, same with people who didn't win.
steve is one of my fav winners. everyone always downplays his game which is so mind boggling! this video is great and sums up exactly why i love steve.
I loved watching Steve that season. Mainly because I couldn’t stand how cocky Vanessa was. I wanted Johnny to win but was so happy for Steve because he was my 2nd favorite to watch that season.
1000% agree. Idk why ppl are upset for personal reasons that Steve took out Vanessa. Most satisfying moment ever!! I couldn't stand her either despite respecting her elite gameplay
I hated Vanessa not because she was a good player (credit where credit is due). I hated her for two reasons: 1. She relied on the crying tactic over and over again which is an incredibly cheap move to make people ignore you because they don't want to deal with someone who gets so upset over the smallest things. It's not clever, it's just annoying. 2. She was clearly manipulating everyone she could on purpose, but in the diary room she acted like she was a perpetual victim. If she was at least honest with the audience and said even once that she was intentionally getting into people's heads, I might have respected her game a bit more. I'm glad she lost, and I agree with Steve in that he partially based his decision for final two on who deserved the money more. Liz, despite being a terrible player and an unapologetic airhead, was still a more pleasant person to be around and at least needed the money more.
@@Chronochrome I like Vanessa as a player because I always find aggressive gameplay very good, which is what she does. 1. Vanessa has told a lot of times that the crying was actually real because she doesn't like the feeling of crashing someone else's dream. But of course, she also said that she also used it as a strategy. 2. I agree that she didn't use the DR well, but when she does, it's not much information since the action she does already speaks for itself. Again, I love Vanessa so I'll probably defend her game as much as I could but I can see and understand why people would not like her.
If people actually believe that he just skated by then I think that says even more about how good he played. He could even trick viewers into thinking he wasn't a treat and did nothing
When i saw Steve win after watching his season i had a straight face. I wasn’t excited and didn’t really care. After this video when you showed his winning clip i smiled and clapped. Great video!
I think Steve is the best to play big brother ever. His threat level was 0 throughout the game, he managed the social game in the most brilliant way, and he took out Vanessa, the best player from his season. There are people who never touch the block, win every comp, and win every vote; But none played quite like Steve Moses.
@@LucasC2022 I’m undecided. In the poll I put up, Nicole F came in 2nd. However I may do a new poll with different winners to gage the interest in which winner would be most popular. Orrrr, I may do the BB23 winner
@@Ethanimale I love the fact that two of the first winners you did were controversial. I’d love a video on Lisa, because while in hindsight it’s more accepted she won, many still only see her win as “well the Jury saw Danielle’s DR sessions”.
@@craigresendes2403 Lisa will definitely be a good one to do, because you’re right, so many people still only see Lisa’s win as a Danielle Reyes loss due to an unsequestered jury
It is THIS season and Steve’s win that started my love for Big Brother. I have so much respect for this guy and would love to meet him some day. Such an amazing winner and very well deserved
its so true about the perception of vanessa at first bc i missed watching the finale live that year and misremembered for a while that she won and not steve and then i recently rewatched bb17 (albeit the abriged version) and i was shocked at how awful vanessa was? like yeah im sure strategically good but she was so socially awful (which nobody remembers) it makes me surprised people like her as much as they do. even though i objectively know most people only care about results in the end lol
It is a game and thats part of it, however it needs to be balanced.... at the very end depending on the jury. Its a popularity contest so you dont want those people to hate you as well, social has to part of the strategy. @@footbal218
Loved this video so much, Steve is honestly the player whose game I love and respect the most out of the more recent winners. He really did play an incredible social game and he won when he needed to most! Yes Vanessa is an amazing player but I think she was outplayed in the end and Steve made some very important big moves that brought him to the end. It also says a lot that everyone really did respect his game even if not everyone voted for him. I think if I played BB I would have taken a similar strategy to Steve’s but without going the loner route. That being said, watching season 23, clearly that kind of strategy of trying to be on good terms with everyone can backfire as it did with Frenchie, so might need to adjust accordingly. Either way, amazing video, so glad this guy is getting the attention he deserves!
An incredible social game, LOL! He was bullied by almost all his allies, and was awkwardly and on the bottom and outs of every alliance he was in. And no I am not one of the Vanessa fanboys who is bitter she lost, just don't see how one can conclude this awkward nerd who struggled with relationships was great socially. Ian was also a bit of an awkward nerd but was much better socially, but much worse than Steve strategically. Both were great in comops.
@@douglasanderson3020 because even the jurors acknowledged that he developed a real connection with everyone in the house. He wasn’t really an awkward nerd he was just underplaying his social skills the entire time. I don’t think his social game was flawless but considering how much it helped him in the early game I think it deserves mention! And yes, Steve made it to the end because he won some important comps, but you also have to remember that your social game is not what gets you into a final.
Thank you!! I’m glad somebody is finally giving him the credit that he deserves! I hate how so many people say he did not deserve to win. He totally deserved it.
Steve did annoy some fans with his behavior or because he did not like Becky, but I think a great deal of the anger toward his win is because he didn't do what fans wanted. I remember some fans being furious that he didn't flip and keep Meg, even though he had no real relationship with that side of the house (in spite of trying to have one earlier in the season) and he was probably never going to win with them. And then he was proven right, and managed to get to the end, where he again didn't do what fit the narrative (graciously losing to Vanessa). I've always thought Steve was one of the more underrated winners so I'm glad to see your video.
underrated winner and also an absolute snack. the game/fans always seem to want to award those who are direct attackers, direct liars, etc. but there is something about hindsight that lets us appreciate these more kind of elegant winners. i totally get that the direct players make it easier on the editors to tell a story, but for people who aren't just casual viewers it is really exciting to see players like steve who slowly cast a spell on those around them.
i wonder how many reality TV editors legit predict guys like steve but have to put the Intense Drama onscreen instead of this kind of strategy and they're just sitting with these clips of him like "oh dude's gonna make it. but i'm gonna spend half this season editing him standing around stacking glassware lmao"
Great post!!! In total agreement that Steve was one of the best BB winners ever!!! He played Vanessa perfectly -- recognizing her expertise. He had the perfect combination of Big Brother savvy, ability to ingratiate himself with everybody both in his alliance and among the other players -- (as Shelley commented during the final jury round table), and one of the single best moments of the season was his "pretend crying" when he was responsible for the booting of Jacke -- I didn't see that coming at all. I was convinced he was genuinely crying and the timing of him saying "about 50% acting" was priceless -- one of the best moments in ALL the seasons of BB.
I remember seeing Steve winning when I was younger and not being too happy. As I’ve grown up and read into what Steve’s game was with feeds I loved it. Most of my original hate was cause he cut a top 5 HG of mine but still 😭 fantastic video can’t wait to see more like this!
he is just adorable and clearly has so much heart for the game, you could just tell how appreciative he was for his time on the show and I'm convinced that Vanessa is a worse player than he is by a mile; she made enemies for herself, overplayed at times and had growing tension with those heading to the jury (I have a suspicion she loses to Liz by one vote); overall, Steve is great!
Steve deserved to be in big brother all stars his game is truly amazing I never noticed until this video i watched his season live and was a Steve fan but this makes me even more of a fan now that I completely understand how hard he worked
Steve always talked to himself loved watching that all season 😂😂and Johnny Mac 😂😂Every time he voted different voices was hilarious. Also Good luck Austin 🤣🤣
As a side note, I'd say another winner who I think would be interesting to take a look at is Andy from BB15. I know that season 15 is a strange and somewhat uncomfortable season to go back to, but his game seemed pretty undereditted. The dude worked with houseguests in a season where they were quite prone to playing for themselves and make moves, was pretty much on everyone's good side, was virtually safe from even the MVP twist, and was able to weather the harsh thunderstorm that was McCranda in his favor. He may not be the flashiest winner, but the guy must have known a few tricks about the game.
i remember i loved steve(n) when i watched this live. i thought he was so smart for doing this and blindsided the other players. he truly didn’t get enough credit!
I don’t get saying someone was robbed when they didn’t make it to final 2. It’s one thing if the jury is spiteful, but if you lose before that, you got outplayed. Plain and simple.
Being able to win while not being shown by the producers much because they don't think you will win or have much of an affect on the game. Shows either you got lucky or you lurked in the shadows so well that even the people with all the info go blindsided by your game.
I glad that Steve won but this video helped me gain more respect for him. I do think got way under edited cause I think production didn’t think he’d get far so it hurt everyone’s perception of him.
Steve and Ians games should studied by all who think "theres no way I can win im just some guy" whats better is they played very different games! I called Ian super early and rooted for Steve so hard and I haven't been happier than those 2 guys winning.
Thank you for telling in-depth the greatest untold story of an underated BB legend. Although he had a sophiscated game strategy he doesn't have the same level of fame like Dr.Will,Dan,Derek
Excellent video analysis. Watching this really made me remember one of the things I really appreciate the most about BB17: everyone in the final five of this season did a good job and played well overall. You could make an argument for each of their games, honestly. Even though Vanessa's strategic game was certainly too extraordinary to overlook, Steve's win still feels valid and authentic, and I am satisfied with the result of the season.
This was a really good analysis video, honestly the player that I think would be most fun to see after this is actually rachel riley from bb13 since on paper she should have been the worst performing of all the returnees on her winning season.
Agreed! Steve and Rachel were the only 2 people i was rooting for that actually went on to win the game. Plus i liked Porche too so it was awesome seeing them in the final 2.
This season was so amazing. Such a great cast. 16, 17, 14 and 12 are the best. It's so much funner to watch when the cast is both fun and has several great players that make it hard to root for any one specific person.
I've been watching BB since BB16 and Steve was by far the least talked about winner since I started watching the show. He deserves a lot more recognition for what he was able to do in BB17. He took out Vanessa, who was seemingly going to win the show that season!
I’ve always loved Steve even from Week 1. I stayed away from the fandom after this season because I couldn’t take all the bitterness towards his win. Thank you so much for this video. Might start rewatching this season soon. 🕺
This was one of the only seasons I followed, and I loved seeing the producers edit Steve as the joke of the season and then try to pivot as it got closer to the end.
Still can't believe there was a Big Brother winner from our tiny, remote part of Upstate New York. Only other North Country winner I can think of is Sophie Clark on Survivor.
Wouldn't his social game rating make more sense if it was higher? Like you said, his loner status was PART of his social game. And he executed it well, and it worked.
Steve Moses, Ian Terry and Josh Martinez were my Top 3 Most Satisfying Wins in Big Brother. When Steve evicted Vanessa(who thought for sure he'd take her to Final 2) i wanted to reach into the tv and kiss him.
Love his name you gave him the queen slayer because it sums up how he won taking out one of the best players. I’m excited for jags from bb25 title name. “Bloody Snake” “The bloody winner”
This was really good just as good as the josh video. I would love you doing a video like this for every big brother winner. If I had to chose though the next winner I would want you to do a video on Andy from bb15 because that’s the season I didn’t really watch and I’ve always knew his game was good but would love to see it explained like this. Anyways love your videos man keep it up!
I agree, I felt that, especially of the more modern day winners, Steve's is the least talked about. Like nobody ever says "oh steve played a great game" or even "oh steve played a terrible game". He's like an outlier in terms of what the community talks about because every other winner has stayed in the spotlight one way or another, so I thought it would finally be time to try my part in resurfacing Steve's winning game
Both Steve and Vanessa played amazing games. I loved watching vanessa play and was sad she didn't make it to the end. I think it would be super hard to pick the winner if Steve and Vanessa were final two. Definitely both would have deserved to win.
damn, i forgot how condescending vanessa was... i didn't like her back then, but wanted her to win anyway. great video, steve deserves more recognition.
Ugh I hate Venessa, she is so manipulative it makes my blood boil. She's always victimizing herself, and I do not know how she stayed that long. It's insane
i dont really understand why alot of people say steve didnt deserve to win he played probably the top 3 game of any winner ever in big brother but lets be honest the episodes didnt do him alot of justice especially with the cut of his alliance
Hear me out…… Steve is to Natalie white As Vanessa is to russell Steve and Natalie realized they couldn’t beat them, but had to join them because they were so powerful. Both were appeasing the jury while Vanessa and russell heartlessly blindsided person after person.
For me if I get into the house and win I would be like Steve go back to my life. I just want to be in the house so badly so so badly. I have always said Steve Deserved that win I remember watching that season and thinking this trumpet player is going to win if they don't Evicted him and yeah Vanessa was force to be reckoned with but as said in the video her social game sucked. That's why she lost she is a comp beast but that's not how you win the game
I can't help but love watching Vanessa with all of her over the toppedness. Bring her back. She could be the new jury round table host. She has such a great eye for the game. I've seen her on podcasts and she is amazing. Steve was very smart not to pull a Cody. But we all know he was too clever to do that. Vanessa conceded that Steve made the correct move bc she wasn't planning on bringing him to f2 either.
When the jury explained Steves game I was a fan. I also love nerdy guys so I thought he was the cutest guy there 😅🤣 but I always said that Steve deserved his win no matter what people say.
I really like the fact that Steve was worried about being seen as the next Ian, and he wound up winning his first HoH by accident during a double eviction... just like Ian
😂😂😂
Tbf, only Steve knew it was an accident (unless he told people) and only super fans would remember a detail like that. So the only on in the house at the time that would make the connection would be Steve himself.
@@ameliarose47 yeah. I don’t think this fact contributes to him being compared to Ian at all. I just like the coincidence of how they’re broadly considered the same and also have such an obscure and specific thing in common too.
Nothing wrong with being the next Ian. I hate how dismissive so-called superfans are towards Ian and his win. He proved you don't have to be a total sociopath to win.
@@ninedaysjane2466 Steve didn’t want to be the next Ian because being compared to any former winner is going to increase your threat level and hurt your chances of winning. Like how young women on Survivor are constantly targeted for being “the next Parvati”
Now that Steve has won himself, I don’t know if he has any problem being compared to Ian, but I doubt it.
I find it funny Steve is one of the most unpopular winners of Modern Big Brother when he made the exact move that people always make fun of Cody for not doing.
Cody had a f2 with Derrick and won allstars so he doesn't regret it
@@BilboSwaggins69 He would’ve won 16 if he cut Derek so I’m pretty sure he does regret it lol
@@LucasC2022 If you watch there pod cast of bb 23 he actually doesn't regret the move cause of how close him and derrick after the show
@@galladanite72 idc how close they are in real life. I still would've cut Derrick EASILY plus there was no guarantee he'd be on all stars. If Derrick wasn't gonna be close to him after, then that says a lot about Derrick. Don't be fooled by him
cody and derrick had a final 2 for the whole game and derrick got him to the end. steve doesn’t owe vanessa anything. they didn’t have a final 2 from beginning to end. i probably would’ve done the same if i was cody but idk
It's a shame that the smarter and more subtle players in Big Brother and Survivor don't always get the respect they deserve.
They get called "undeserving."
Erika
Steven was so cool! I squealed when he won
@@BearCobb Literally, isn't it insane that Erika was able to get Deshawn AND Danny to flip on Shantel, and people STILL call her undeserving
True. Flashy players get more credit for entertainment. But under the radar players tend to win because they have less of a target on their back. These shows aren’t about big moves, it’s about socially maneuvering you way through the game.
The network did Steve a disservice with his show time, falling for his under-the-radar act that all the players fell for as well. I think watchers either thought Vanessa was robbed of her victory or didn't care that he won- and I think that is mostly attributed to not showing his long time social game.
That's true but at the same time iirc Steve personally stated he ended up being thankful for that in hindsight since it helped him slip under the radar after BB's season ended and had much less tedious publicity to deal with so I guess its a silver lining xD
So many “I didn’t like Steve until this video” shows how clouded people’s judgements are while a season plays out
100,000%, and that goes for so many players. The public narrative is affected by so many things, such as the edit, fan favorites, etc. that so often players will fall into a public perception that is not representative of the actual truth, and as time goes on and the season falls into the past, the narrative sticks
I only watched Liz
I remember at the time that there were some ridiculous comments online who think BB was rigged by CBS for Vanessa to win because apparently, she was "guaranteed a poker show on CBS", at least along those lines LOL. And then the conversation shifted by finale night and the comments turned delusional where now people thought she should have won because she "had the best game".
To be fair, she did have the best game up until she was evicted, then she's not. Steve just bid his time to strike when the opportunity presented itself, especially after so many failed attempts to take her out. It was a winning move. :)
Changing your physical appearance to make another person believe they have power over you is an insane move. He deserved the win just for that
Fr! Its so subtle too
Steve is probably one of my favorite winners of all time. He's a genuinely good person, and he won comps, took out the biggest strategic threat, and knew the game inside and out before he ever walked through the doors.
What about the time he loves that Liz had anger in her face and desperation as Steve took joy to that
@@JellyJamSquad what?
@@JellyJamSquad You've never been happy that someone else was annoyed, angry, upset, etc etc? If you say no, you're a liar 100%. (:
@@TheCozyGameress bro I forgot I commented that 😂
He definitely would have tricked me “I’m eating fundip :D” I will vote for whoever you want man
That like wave from behind without looking at you
Like ahhh
I laughed so hard when he said that
I needed this to reevaluate Vanessa and your right he didn't steal her win, he beat her fairly to eliminate her
He played the game and even better played her game and beat her at her own game
@@HitsugiHimeHE BEAT HER AT HER OWN GAME
Very disappointed in Vanessa for being a bitter juror and voting for Liz when she fully knew Steve played a much better game
I definitely think she would’ve voted for him if the vote wasn’t like 10 minutes after he blindsided her. If he wasn’t f4 hoh and won the veto and voted her out there instead I don’t think she’s bitter
the vote was JUST after she was voted out tho
@@wizardkumaanimations9984Her voting for Liz to win even though it was right after she got evicted shows that she is a low-IQ individual, even though she spent all season trying to convince us otherwise 😏
The whole point of the jury is to punish players who dont consider people's feelings. It's literally their whole point to encourage friendly play and punish the most effective and ruthless strategies because if no one likes you at the end, they'll vote for whoever you left at the end in your final 2. It's not "being bitter" it's literally fulfilling the function the entire mechanic is there for. If anything, players voting for "who played the game better" is the bad thing, because it encourages ruthless play, the already better strategy because you could rely on people recognising you "played the better game" (which you didn't, just the more ruthless and heartless one. Its way more skillful to win with a positive jury who actually like you)
@@bye1551 While i agree the social game is important and if you piss off the jury it's only fair that they get bitter
But also
If you'd rather have someone who did NOTHING win than someone who you don't like but played a very very good strategic game
Then you're being a bit of a sore loser at that point tbh
Shoutout to Steve for being my only pre season pick who actually won. Never underestimate the nerd Archetype
Same here whale, the only player I've picked that actually went on to win. It felt good being right
Same here, my story is that i picked him because his name was Steve and that was literally it, no photo no interview just the name Steve
@@tbranson6301 I was completely wrong about Steve. I thought he was going to be more of a Ronnie than an Ian. My only pre-season pick I got right was Derrick.
I had Dan Bb10 and Ian bb14 as my winner picks. As well as Steve
Same thing
Fun fact, I go to the same college and am in the same major that Steve was! Some professors recall Steve telling them he had to miss a semester, but he couldn't say what, so people were naturally confused... then, there the whole school was, months later, sitting in the university commons watching him win (there is a video somewhere on RUclips of that, I was in middle school at the time, so clearly I wasn't there in person lol at least I saw it live on tv). I honestly didn't even catch the college and major coincidence until my sophomore year, like 5 or so months ago, when one of the professors saw me watching survivor and brought it up, which I find funny since I've watched the show with my mom since as long as I can remember. He's never brought up or randomly talked about because, why would he be? Anyone who went to school during his time there is long gone pretty much. But when you bring him up, everyone who did know him has nothing but good things to say about him!
ALSO, I'm pretty sure he originally went to some top tier music school (Cornell I think) for his trombone playing, but didn't like the classical music aspect and wanted more of the audio engineering stuff, which is why he took a chance and transferred to a much smaller, less popular school (with a great music program!) Take this with a grain of salt, as I of course don't know him personally and don't want to speak for him completely based off of things I've heard.
The idea that Steve "robbed" Vanessa is ludacris. Even more ludacris, the idea that Vanessa was a better player than Steve. She was a different player. Not better or worse, just different.
Exactly. Vanessa played a great game no doubt. It was almost flawless, but she lost the last HOH and that sealed her fate
you mean ludicrous?
i know that rapper
She objectively worst, cause she lost
I feel like Steve was the perfect player to put against Vanessa and it’s unfortunate for her 😂
love how this man keeps accidentally winning. like he can't help himself. imagine being someone so good at winning you literally can't stop yourself from doing it. hilarious
The look of disappointment into the camera 😂 He did a great job
I also wanna point out, Steve indisputably played exactly how you SHOULD. Vanessa might get the best of nearly all but Steve is not one of those ppl and he slowly but surely proved himself. It was worth it
Season 17 was my first big brother season and I remember being so upset Vanessa lost to Steve but this video explaining his game made me finally respect his game for the first time
im glad i could help explain some things! it's totally okay to be upset with Vanessa winning, she played extremely well and was ridiculously good at dominating her way to the end, but i figured i'd do my best to try and explain the other side of the coin that wasn't shown off nearly as well on the show
for sure. it was my second. i firmly believe vanessa should’ve won, but this video definitely helped me appreciate steve’s gameplay a lot more haha
It was my first season too
Loved that Steve won
Well he took her out fair and square. You cannot be upset at all plus Steve is even a much tolerable and tolerant person at heart
@@thecamishere4344 yeah I see it now but at the time and for many years I was very bitter about it, but again this video definitely made me respect his game a whole lot more.
I’m glad you made this video. I remember when Steve won the F6 hoh thinking “who’s Steve?” Which is a testament to his strategic execution and a problem with how production chooses to edit their show. I definitely want to watch this season again with this different perspective of his game.
Also his backstab of Vanessa at the final three reminds me of Janelle sending Will home at F4 in S7. Taking out the person who was “controlling” you when you have a clean shot.
I didn’t give Steve enough credit during his season. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
And you shouldn't, this is revisionist history. It's easy to give credit to a winner after the fact, but luck played a huge role in his game. He's not a good winner and will never be
@@BeatleHead88 He may not be the best winner but I think he's one of the most interesting winners to talk about just because his game was very unique. He had a meat shield strategy which is pretty much having people be targeted before you, I've seen it on Survivor and it was worked perfectly for 2 winners even going back to Season 8
@@BeatleHead88 Why shouldn't someone give him credit? Laying low and letting others get dirty is a bad move? How? He didn't hide in a 37 person alliance like they do now. He did his best to keep everything in front of him.
Plenty of winners had luck on their side, same with people who didn't win.
@@BeatleHead88 luck plays a role in EVERY winner.
steve is one of my fav winners. everyone always downplays his game which is so mind boggling! this video is great and sums up exactly why i love steve.
He was a genius and was way more skilled than people gave him credit for
"Steve father our babies"
-Johnny Mac
I loved watching Steve that season. Mainly because I couldn’t stand how cocky Vanessa was. I wanted Johnny to win but was so happy for Steve because he was my 2nd favorite to watch that season.
1000% agree. Idk why ppl are upset for personal reasons that Steve took out Vanessa. Most satisfying moment ever!! I couldn't stand her either despite respecting her elite gameplay
Vanessa could have been anything but not cocky lmao
for real wanted Johnny mac and/ or steve to win. was so glad to see vanessa head out
I hated Vanessa not because she was a good player (credit where credit is due). I hated her for two reasons:
1. She relied on the crying tactic over and over again which is an incredibly cheap move to make people ignore you because they don't want to deal with someone who gets so upset over the smallest things. It's not clever, it's just annoying.
2. She was clearly manipulating everyone she could on purpose, but in the diary room she acted like she was a perpetual victim. If she was at least honest with the audience and said even once that she was intentionally getting into people's heads, I might have respected her game a bit more.
I'm glad she lost, and I agree with Steve in that he partially based his decision for final two on who deserved the money more. Liz, despite being a terrible player and an unapologetic airhead, was still a more pleasant person to be around and at least needed the money more.
@@Chronochrome I like Vanessa as a player because I always find aggressive gameplay very good, which is what she does.
1. Vanessa has told a lot of times that the crying was actually real because she doesn't like the feeling of crashing someone else's dream. But of course, she also said that she also used it as a strategy.
2. I agree that she didn't use the DR well, but when she does, it's not much information since the action she does already speaks for itself.
Again, I love Vanessa so I'll probably defend her game as much as I could but I can see and understand why people would not like her.
If people actually believe that he just skated by then I think that says even more about how good he played. He could even trick viewers into thinking he wasn't a treat and did nothing
When i saw Steve win after watching his season i had a straight face. I wasn’t excited and didn’t really care. After this video when you showed his winning clip i smiled and clapped. Great video!
The Queenslayer? More like The Trombonist King. I love Steve.
He very much played a better version of denices game in Philippines tho. Similar to denice he cut her #1 at the end.
well then, I guess Steve's not a floater, he's a lifeguard.
im not even sure if that makes sense in this scenario but it sounds cool. great video!
I like that term; lifeguard sounds cool
More like a sleeper agent
I think Steve is the best to play big brother ever. His threat level was 0 throughout the game, he managed the social game in the most brilliant way, and he took out Vanessa, the best player from his season. There are people who never touch the block, win every comp, and win every vote; But none played quite like Steve Moses.
I can't wait to see other Big Brother Winner videos just like this and Josh
I’m glad! I plan on making one for every winner, although it’ll definitely take me a looooong time to get through all of them
@@Ethanimale Out of curiosity who do you plan on doing next?
@@LucasC2022 I’m undecided. In the poll I put up, Nicole F came in 2nd. However I may do a new poll with different winners to gage the interest in which winner would be most popular. Orrrr, I may do the BB23 winner
@@Ethanimale I love the fact that two of the first winners you did were controversial. I’d love a video on Lisa, because while in hindsight it’s more accepted she won, many still only see her win as “well the Jury saw Danielle’s DR sessions”.
@@craigresendes2403 Lisa will definitely be a good one to do, because you’re right, so many people still only see Lisa’s win as a Danielle Reyes loss due to an unsequestered jury
SUCH a great video. I remember watching this season live but i was younger at the time, so having this season broken down again now was fun to watch!
I was happy when he cut Vanessa. She cried so much after every move that I just couldn’t get into her game.
It is THIS season and Steve’s win that started my love for Big Brother. I have so much respect for this guy and would love to meet him some day. Such an amazing winner and very well deserved
its so true about the perception of vanessa at first bc i missed watching the finale live that year and misremembered for a while that she won and not steve and then i recently rewatched bb17 (albeit the abriged version) and i was shocked at how awful vanessa was? like yeah im sure strategically good but she was so socially awful (which nobody remembers) it makes me surprised people like her as much as they do. even though i objectively know most people only care about results in the end lol
Yeah, I just watched the speedy “genius of Vanessa” video and it’s literally her gaslighting and bullying people
Vanessa sucked lol
It is a game and thats part of it, however it needs to be balanced.... at the very end depending on the jury. Its a popularity contest so you dont want those people to hate you as well, social has to part of the strategy. @@footbal218
I love the fact that Ian and Steve won their seasons.
I never really understood how much strategy Steve used so thanks for making such a comprehensive video!
Loved this video so much, Steve is honestly the player whose game I love and respect the most out of the more recent winners. He really did play an incredible social game and he won when he needed to most! Yes Vanessa is an amazing player but I think she was outplayed in the end and Steve made some very important big moves that brought him to the end. It also says a lot that everyone really did respect his game even if not everyone voted for him. I think if I played BB I would have taken a similar strategy to Steve’s but without going the loner route. That being said, watching season 23, clearly that kind of strategy of trying to be on good terms with everyone can backfire as it did with Frenchie, so might need to adjust accordingly. Either way, amazing video, so glad this guy is getting the attention he deserves!
An incredible social game, LOL! He was bullied by almost all his allies, and was awkwardly and on the bottom and outs of every alliance he was in. And no I am not one of the Vanessa fanboys who is bitter she lost, just don't see how one can conclude this awkward nerd who struggled with relationships was great socially. Ian was also a bit of an awkward nerd but was much better socially, but much worse than Steve strategically. Both were great in comops.
@@douglasanderson3020 because even the jurors acknowledged that he developed a real connection with everyone in the house. He wasn’t really an awkward nerd he was just underplaying his social skills the entire time. I don’t think his social game was flawless but considering how much it helped him in the early game I think it deserves mention! And yes, Steve made it to the end because he won some important comps, but you also have to remember that your social game is not what gets you into a final.
Thank you!! I’m glad somebody is finally giving him the credit that he deserves! I hate how so many people say he did not deserve to win. He totally deserved it.
Steve did annoy some fans with his behavior or because he did not like Becky, but I think a great deal of the anger toward his win is because he didn't do what fans wanted. I remember some fans being furious that he didn't flip and keep Meg, even though he had no real relationship with that side of the house (in spite of trying to have one earlier in the season) and he was probably never going to win with them. And then he was proven right, and managed to get to the end, where he again didn't do what fit the narrative (graciously losing to Vanessa). I've always thought Steve was one of the more underrated winners so I'm glad to see your video.
underrated winner and also an absolute snack. the game/fans always seem to want to award those who are direct attackers, direct liars, etc. but there is something about hindsight that lets us appreciate these more kind of elegant winners. i totally get that the direct players make it easier on the editors to tell a story, but for people who aren't just casual viewers it is really exciting to see players like steve who slowly cast a spell on those around them.
I agree. Steve is an absolute snack.
Steve only lied or redirected perceptions when he needed to. There was no malicious intention there.
i wonder how many reality TV editors legit predict guys like steve but have to put the Intense Drama onscreen instead of this kind of strategy and they're just sitting with these clips of him like "oh dude's gonna make it. but i'm gonna spend half this season editing him standing around stacking glassware lmao"
Great post!!! In total agreement that Steve was one of the best BB winners ever!!! He played Vanessa perfectly -- recognizing her expertise. He had the perfect combination of Big Brother savvy, ability to ingratiate himself with everybody both in his alliance and among the other players -- (as Shelley commented during the final jury round table), and one of the single best moments of the season was his "pretend crying" when he was responsible for the booting of Jacke -- I didn't see that coming at all. I was convinced he was genuinely crying and the timing of him saying "about 50% acting" was priceless -- one of the best moments in ALL the seasons of BB.
I look at Steve in a different light now. He is very underrated.
I remember seeing Steve winning when I was younger and not being too happy. As I’ve grown up and read into what Steve’s game was with feeds I loved it. Most of my original hate was cause he cut a top 5 HG of mine but still 😭 fantastic video can’t wait to see more like this!
he is just adorable and clearly has so much heart for the game, you could just tell how appreciative he was for his time on the show and I'm convinced that Vanessa is a worse player than he is by a mile; she made enemies for herself, overplayed at times and had growing tension with those heading to the jury (I have a suspicion she loses to Liz by one vote); overall, Steve is great!
Steve deserved to be in big brother all stars his game is truly amazing I never noticed until this video i watched his season live and was a Steve fan but this makes me even more of a fan now that I completely understand how hard he worked
MOST UNDERRATED WINNER EVER… So glad you made this video!!!
Steve played the game like no other. Played as being a puppet, but when it all came down to the end he was the puppet master.
I hate how people seem to forget about him! He's always been a favorite of mine!!
Steve always talked to himself loved watching that all season 😂😂and Johnny Mac 😂😂Every time he voted different voices was hilarious. Also Good luck Austin 🤣🤣
Steve went pretty flawlessly from Floater to Gamer in Jury phase. Especially after Johnny Mac re-entered the BB House
“I pick damn Steve” 😂😭
As a side note, I'd say another winner who I think would be interesting to take a look at is Andy from BB15. I know that season 15 is a strange and somewhat uncomfortable season to go back to, but his game seemed pretty undereditted. The dude worked with houseguests in a season where they were quite prone to playing for themselves and make moves, was pretty much on everyone's good side, was virtually safe from even the MVP twist, and was able to weather the harsh thunderstorm that was McCranda in his favor. He may not be the flashiest winner, but the guy must have known a few tricks about the game.
i remember i loved steve(n) when i watched this live. i thought he was so smart for doing this and blindsided the other players. he truly didn’t get enough credit!
I have never watched a single episode of big brother, never cared for it but I am binging all your videos. keep up the great work!
This was the first season I watched the live feeds. The Steve commentary to cam after a Vanessa encounter was what made me root for him.
I don’t get saying someone was robbed when they didn’t make it to final 2. It’s one thing if the jury is spiteful, but if you lose before that, you got outplayed. Plain and simple.
Being able to win while not being shown by the producers much because they don't think you will win or have much of an affect on the game. Shows either you got lucky or you lurked in the shadows so well that even the people with all the info go blindsided by your game.
Just finished the Josh Martinez video, then this drops. Awesome!
I glad that Steve won but this video helped me gain more respect for him. I do think got way under edited cause I think production didn’t think he’d get far so it hurt everyone’s perception of him.
Steve and Ians games should studied by all who think "theres no way I can win im just some guy" whats better is they played very different games! I called Ian super early and rooted for Steve so hard and I haven't been happier than those 2 guys winning.
Had to come back here and spread a little loving to Steve after remembering the very iconic Austin Blind Side vote. "Good luck Austin!" (Claps)
One of the best videos made about BB. Great Job.
Appreciate this a lot, thank you
Moral of the story, Vanessa was one step ahead while Steve was at the finish line. He saw through her mist while others couldn't.
Thank you for telling in-depth the greatest untold story of an underated BB legend. Although he had a sophiscated game strategy he doesn't have the same level of fame like Dr.Will,Dan,Derek
Excellent video analysis. Watching this really made me remember one of the things I really appreciate the most about BB17: everyone in the final five of this season did a good job and played well overall. You could make an argument for each of their games, honestly. Even though Vanessa's strategic game was certainly too extraordinary to overlook, Steve's win still feels valid and authentic, and I am satisfied with the result of the season.
This was a really good analysis video, honestly the player that I think would be most fun to see after this is actually rachel riley from bb13 since on paper she should have been the worst performing of all the returnees on her winning season.
Rachel’s will be interesting to make because there certainly hasn’t been a winner that made it to the end the way that she did lol
Agreed! Steve and Rachel were the only 2 people i was rooting for that actually went on to win the game. Plus i liked Porche too so it was awesome seeing them in the final 2.
I don’t think Steve got a lot of screentime and that is partly why people didn’t realize how well he played
I think just because you take advantage of your appearance on the show doesn't mean you're there for the wrong reasons
These videos are insanely good. Completely changed my mind on him well done.
This season was so amazing. Such a great cast. 16, 17, 14 and 12 are the best. It's so much funner to watch when the cast is both fun and has several great players that make it hard to root for any one specific person.
I've been watching BB since BB16 and Steve was by far the least talked about winner since I started watching the show. He deserves a lot more recognition for what he was able to do in BB17. He took out Vanessa, who was seemingly going to win the show that season!
Great videos! Just discovered these a couple weeks ago and explains a lot. This is maybe the 5th video now I've watched
finally a video that really see how underrated steve is as winner!! thank you!!
I’ve always loved Steve even from Week 1. I stayed away from the fandom after this season because I couldn’t take all the bitterness towards his win.
Thank you so much for this video. Might start rewatching this season soon. 🕺
BIG BROTHER 17 IS EVERYTHING BIG BROTHER IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT CONTENDER FOR THE BEST EVER
great analysis. such an underrated winner
This was one of the only seasons I followed, and I loved seeing the producers edit Steve as the joke of the season and then try to pivot as it got closer to the end.
Still can't believe there was a Big Brother winner from our tiny, remote part of Upstate New York. Only other North Country winner I can think of is Sophie Clark on Survivor.
And it's been 8 years since a New Yorker won Big Brother.
Wouldn't his social game rating make more sense if it was higher? Like you said, his loner status was PART of his social game. And he executed it well, and it worked.
Steve Moses, Ian Terry and Josh Martinez were my Top 3 Most Satisfying Wins in Big Brother. When Steve evicted Vanessa(who thought for sure he'd take her to Final 2) i wanted to reach into the tv and kiss him.
7.5 is low, his game was gorgeous to watch. we have to add points to people whose initial strategies worked out.
Had no idea bout his game, thanks for this
Love his name you gave him the queen slayer because it sums up how he won taking out one of the best players. I’m excited for jags from bb25 title name. “Bloody Snake” “The bloody winner”
This was really good just as good as the josh video. I would love you doing a video like this for every big brother winner. If I had to chose though the next winner I would want you to do a video on Andy from bb15 because that’s the season I didn’t really watch and I’ve always knew his game was good but would love to see it explained like this. Anyways love your videos man keep it up!
I loved Steve so much I rooted for him the whole time lol
His game is so underrated.
I agree, I felt that, especially of the more modern day winners, Steve's is the least talked about. Like nobody ever says "oh steve played a great game" or even "oh steve played a terrible game". He's like an outlier in terms of what the community talks about because every other winner has stayed in the spotlight one way or another, so I thought it would finally be time to try my part in resurfacing Steve's winning game
Both Steve and Vanessa played amazing games. I loved watching vanessa play and was sad she didn't make it to the end. I think it would be super hard to pick the winner if Steve and Vanessa were final two. Definitely both would have deserved to win.
I want a big brother season like bb17. Bb17 is the first big brother season I watched. I love it, great cast of competitors.
I really loved this video, thank you
This was a great video man. Good work
Thanks man, I appreciate it
as a person who has never watched big brother... steve is the GOAT!!!!
damn, i forgot how condescending vanessa was... i didn't like her back then, but wanted her to win anyway. great video, steve deserves more recognition.
This was one of the only season of big brother i watched growing up and damn i forgot how much fun it was
Ugh I hate Venessa, she is so manipulative it makes my blood boil. She's always victimizing herself, and I do not know how she stayed that long. It's insane
More like the queen player. He played Vanessa like a fiddle and had her pinned as the most dangerous player from the start
Such a good video. Please do more of these types of videos on different winners!
STEVE WHAT ARE YOU DOING
*I'm eating fun dip*
i dont really understand why alot of people say steve didnt deserve to win he played probably the top 3 game of any winner ever in big brother but lets be honest the episodes didnt do him alot of justice especially with the cut of his alliance
This is some great BB content!
Hey thanks! Funny timing, I was just watching 41 secrets about Pearl Islands, I love your stuff!
@@Ethanimale Why thank you.
Hear me out……
Steve is to Natalie white
As Vanessa is to russell
Steve and Natalie realized they couldn’t beat them, but had to join them because they were so powerful. Both were appeasing the jury while Vanessa and russell heartlessly blindsided person after person.
For me if I get into the house and win I would be like Steve go back to my life. I just want to be in the house so badly so so badly. I have always said Steve Deserved that win I remember watching that season and thinking this trumpet player is going to win if they don't Evicted him and yeah Vanessa was force to be reckoned with but as said in the video her social game sucked. That's why she lost she is a comp beast but that's not how you win the game
I can't help but love watching Vanessa with all of her over the toppedness. Bring her back. She could be the new jury round table host. She has such a great eye for the game. I've seen her on podcasts and she is amazing. Steve was very smart not to pull a Cody. But we all know he was too clever to do that. Vanessa conceded that Steve made the correct move bc she wasn't planning on bringing him to f2 either.
When the jury explained Steves game I was a fan. I also love nerdy guys so I thought he was the cutest guy there 😅🤣 but I always said that Steve deserved his win no matter what people say.