How Ending Temperature & Development Time Influence The Cup When Roasting Coffee
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2024
- I use the LINK Coffee roaster to demonstrate how ending temperature & development time influence the cup when roasting coffee. The LINK is the perfect roaster to perform this task. Not only is it reliable, and accurate, but it performs remarkably well. I used the same profile curve and first crack time and temperature for 3 roasts. The only difference was the development time and ending temperature. Even though the changes were minimal between the 3 roasts, I could taste the difference in the cup.
This is the 3rd video in my "Profile Series" and I am using the same Honduran Coffee - thecaptainscoffee.com/product... which has been delicious.
A special thank you to GH Grinding & Brewing Solutions - ghgbs.com/collections/link-ro... for letting me borrow their roaster to share my experiences. Use the link above if you are interested in buying the LINK.
If you want to learn how to use the Nucleus LINK Coffee Roaster, see these excellent step-by-step guides:
Roast Rebels - • How to roast the best ...
Introduction to the Nucleus LINK - • Nucleus Link Sample Ro...
How To Use The Link - • Nucleus Link complete ...
Beginners Guide To The Nucleus LINK - • The Nucleus LINK | Beg...
I have some free resources available at my Buy Me A Coffee website including the Coffee Roasting Profile Worksheet and some Artisan Profiles - www.buymeacoffee.com/virtualc...
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0:00 How Ending Temperature & Development Time Influence The Cup When Roasting Coffee
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big fan of the link and the kafflogic. The link or the roest will be added to our roastery soon. Great video.
That is an interesting decision to make Trevor. LINK or Roest..... Tim Wendlboe uses the Roest. It literally counts 5 cracks and then automatically marks first crack.
Time and temperature win again. another great video good sir!
Yes they do :-). Thank you for your kind comment and encouragement.
I just wanted to say " thank you ,Mike for this amazing experiment. Keep up doing great job.🙏🌹
you are very welcome Ateyah. I'm glad it was helpful for you. Thanks for being a subscriber!
I have the Kaffelogic Nano and it's an amazing roaster; I've done over 400 roasts in it. KL have just introduced the live logging feature with their firmware/software. Thx for the comparison between this and the LINK
Thanks for watching and sharing Rosemary. You are very welcome.
Very interesting experiment. I will definitely be more conscious of development time and temp. Thanks for the good work!
Glad it was helpful for you Larry. Thanks for watching!
Since I first saw the Kaffelogic and later the Link roaster, I've been very interested in them. I love that they can be so controlled and consistent. Thanks so much for making this video. Also very important about the subtle differences in the times and temps.
Hi Jason. Yes, very interesting roaster. It is a swiss watch.... Nuggets that i really appreciated about this video are the impact of density and process on the first crack temperature. I'm going to be paying a lot more attention to this when I roast. I'm glad you liked my video!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Absolutely a game changing roaster for many. I feel that because of it's simplicity and good electronics, this little roaster will be excellent for learning every aspect of roasting. The variables are so easily controlled and documented.
Thanks again for this!
Hi Mike,
There are flavored coffee beans like vanilla coffee beans, how do they do that ?
Could you please make a short video about this ?
Thanks again Mike.
Hi Mshah, roasted coffee is placed in a rotating drum and a flavored spray is applied to the beans. I’ve never done that before.
Really interesting Mike. Even though I'm at the low tech end of rhe roaster spectrum, basic principles still apply, which I've learned from following you. Lately I've been experimenting with lower development times. I've never been as low as 12%, but I am going to give it a go. Hearing your comparisons of the three was really interesting.
Glad it was helpful J. This video is a wondering path down the rabbit hole of coffee roasting. The it is a lot of fun if you want to take the time to experience it.
I think the focus should be on moisture loss, not just development percentage if you want to experiment with this. The reason why is because "development percentage" doesn't really help you by itself. Temperature and the resulting moisture loss along with the roasting profile/curve will influence the taste. It is possible to have an underdeveloped bean if you are using higher temperatures and are flying through the roast. So, If you experiment, pay attention to moisture loss and the ending temperature as way points. Sure you can include the development percentage but that will be influenced by your profile.
This will help you in the long run because when you start to taste the same coffee with a similar curve but have a different ending temperature the moisture loss% and bean color should start to help you find a preferred ending temperature for that specific coffee. Then, you start roasting a different coffee and experiment with different moisture loss and ending temps with that coffee and you might find you prefer a different ending temp/moisture loss%. So, i guess that means you have a different profile from one coffee to the next..... and down the rabbit hole we go ;-)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Makes complete sense. No one variable alone is the all-powerful. Couldn't be that easy! That's what makes it so fun, rabbit hole and all. Thanks Mike.
I love all your videos. They are very informative. Thank you very much. I have the link roaster and it’s been doing a very good job for me, but I cannot figure out how to manipulate the software as in adjust the development stage and temperatures is there anyway you could do a video on their software I’m not really able to find one that can help an old man out. truthfully, even if I could find a video, I probably wouldn’t understand it. You always take the time to explain things in a way that is easier for me to absorb.😂
Hi Charles, thanks for watching and your kind comments. Age has nothing to do with it. Their software is not really intuitive BUT once you figure it out or someone tells you how to do it , then it becomes a little easier to understand.
Having said that, go through the process of selecting the profile like I did on the video. Once you do that and click the pencil, you are directed to the graph in the studio. Now, look down at the bottom right where it says "recommended level =" and you can increase that time. You will also notice the level name appears like "light medium, medium, dark". This is one way to increase the development time. By its design, the temperature fill increase over time because it is following the curve.
Now, if you want to change other parts of the profile i think you can click on the bean temperature curve and drag it to whatever position you want.
I hope that makes sense. Give it a try and let me know if it works.
Thank you, I will
Really insightful video, thanks for making! Question: for beans that have a fair amount of size variance, do you have any efficient way of sorting prior to roasting, or do you just roast as is?
For the most part I don't pre-sort. I guess I should but I don't have that much time and for me, the impact on the roast isn't that significant. I'm sure I could benefit from doing this but I don't. I do sort out defective beans after the roast for some coffees and i always try and pull out the quakers because they will affect the taste of the cup.
Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber Mike.
I noticed a major difference in the 3rd roast in the side by side photos. The seam that goes through the seeds were much wider opened than the other 2 roasts.
Good eye. Yes, if you look at the second roast you can see a little bit of opening taking place but the 3rd roast it really opens up. Thanks for pointing that out. Very interesting...
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I think this is why the dark roasts have little to no chaff left on the coffee after roasting. The seed has swollen so much and the seam has opened so far that it releases or burns up the exposed stuff that's usually caught in the seam of the more tightly packed lighter roasted coffee seeds.
yep, I think you're right!
I see you got the Aillio Bullet roaster too in the background. Please demo the roaster on your next video!
❤
I am borrowing a friends bullet and there will be some bullet videos coming. I’ve got a couple ahead of the bullet. Thanks for watching.
Well, I wouldn’t say that you compare development times. For me you did light, medium-light and medium roast. For comparing development time you should aim for the same color with different developments. That means short development should have highest temperature, and longest development should have lowest temperature at the end.
Interesting. I think that would be a good experiment. So keep the First Crack temperature the same and the ending temperature the same, and simply change the amount of time in development.
For this video i included both ending temperature and development time. The LINK did this automatically when I simply increased the development percentage. I think that was because the LINK was using the same curve? What do you think?
Thanks for sharing and watching Alek.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab first crack temp the same, try development time of 1 minute, 1:30 and 2 minutes. It would be the easiest to have simple color meter on hand to grind and measure color. You would find out that for longer development times you will need lower temperature to get the same color comparing to 1 minute development.
It’s great experiment to see what development can do to coffee.
On the other hand you can perform different experiment of the same development time and different end temperature to see how coffee behave.
When comparing roasts always use the same profile to the moment when you need to do change. For example when comparing development times as we’re talking, everything that happens to first crack stays the same. If you don’t do that your experiment is not valid because you don’t know actually what have changed.
I hope it’s clear for you. I’m not native speaker 😉
Your english is very good. Thank you for your reply. I did use the same link profile for all 3 roasts except I increased the development time by adjusting the "roast level" option which increases the development time. Becauase it is following the same curve, the temperature increase followed. I understand your suggestion and appreciate you taking the time to explain. Did you say you roast on the LINK? What roaster do you have?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I just had some time to play with it (not enough to be expert).
I roast samples with Ikawa, do trial roasts with Aillio Bullet, and our production roasters are PROBAT p25 and Diedrich cr70.
What elements of the ikawa roast are you using to translate to the bullet? I'm curious because I've been looking for an analytical methodology to do this going from an air roaster to a drum roaster. I'm using color, moisture loss as my temperature comparison. The Shape of the curve is the other. If you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate that.
I like that you mention the flavors are all somewhat in the medium roast spectrum, since there are chocolatey notes even in the lightest of the suggested development amounts.
I've noticed that the Link develops the outer bean to this level, but then the inner bean is less developed, so we can get chocolate or in my opinion roasty flavors while also being very lightly roasted (sometimes like 100 Agtron ground color, and also sometimes weight loss being signficantly less than 11%). I suppose it's done this way to have all of the profiles acting for the purpose of being sample roasts, discerning bean defects as well as origin flavors, while also increasing sweetness so it's enjoyable for those who like medium roasts at the same time.
For my tastes, I prefer to not discern the roast so much, and also prefer a more developed inner bean. So, I've been working on trying to make adjustments within Link Studio for that. Not successful yet! I think the overdevelopment of the outer bean might have a lot to do not just with the end temp but also the fan profile being a bit too high before and through first crack.
very interesting Niccolo. Thanks for sharing that. Have you opened up the bean (cracked it open after the roast) to see the color. I did that with these 3 roasts and I didn't notice any underdevelopment. That isn't to say it isn't happening to you but I didn't experience that. I did see a lot of variation in the lighter roast when comparing from bean to bean BUT I think this is normal for this particular bean. I had noticed this when roasting on the Kaleido M2.
I don't have a color meter yet but I'm hoping I might get one this year. We'll see how the money goes.
What are you adjusting in your profile, development time or the overall curve?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks for the response!
I'm thinking it's underdeveloped inside based on weight loss (sometimes 9%), flavors (sometimes a bit more on that side for certain coffees at the lowest development suggestion percentage, grassy etc rather than fruity as the coffee should be), and then the Agtron will have a large difference between whole and ground, and the ground color can be extra light rather than in the light range. But it's right on the edge of underdevelopment. Lowering the development % on the Link beyond what's recommended definitely gets into underdeveloped territory.
I just saw your video on adjusting at the end for light roasts with a clean cup, and have been starting to experiment with those types of ideas.
My approach is going to be playing around with changing first crack time by adjusting a profile's overall temperature to get the desired level of acidity and brightness, then with the preferred tasting roast, moving on to choosing a best tasting end temperature (and setting up the machine so that it ends by that temp, rather than by a time), and then adjusting development time after that to get in the right flavor range I want, by manipulating the curve in Link Studio.
So far I've played with adjusting fan settings, as some Kaffelogic people and Rob Hoos (his blog post on the Ikawa) pointed to that being a good way to tone down roastiness. I've gotten some mixed results, and it's been a lot of trial and error.
Ideally, if I could figure this out, I could just have a few steps that people can do off of the advanced dial in profile, to get the "quite light yet fully developed, with no roastiness" flavor profile. I've got a ways to go due to lack of experience.
Thanks for sharing that detailed response. The 12.7 percent on the LINK gave me great results for the density profile it assigned. Measuring the time in Milliard, it seems a little short based on my experience with drum roasters and the Fresh Roast BUT I'm going to experiment with the middle phase and hopefully show something in my next video.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I look forward to checking it out!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thought I'd come here and tell you: with the new Addis (version 4) update, I've found that Filter D might be an ideal profile for lighter tasting roasts with even development. I've had really promising results when comparing it to Omni, and Filter E and C profiles, on a washed Colombian Gesha coffee - more elegant, brigher, fruity, and floral than the others. Haven't tried it with naturals, or decaf yet.
Hi Mike, I recently got a Link roaster and am hoping to start learning how to roast my own coffee. I find the Link software a bit confusing and don't want to tweak too many settings in case I mess things up. For example, I liked one of the built-in profiles on the roaster but wanted to tweak some parts of it, such as increasing the temperature during the drying phase or aiming for a longer development time. For some reason, after I made the adjustments to the curve, the roast would end before reaching the target development time.
Would you be up for creating a video showing how to make adjustments using an existing profile? Thank you!
Hi Jane. Congratulations on your link roaster! I’m sure you’re gonna have a lot of fun with it and roast some great coffee. Unfortunately, I had to return the link to the manufacturer. I would reach out to The captains coffee. David is a link distributor and also puts out videos regarding the link. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.
Hi Jane, I am also interested in the Link. But I checked a few websites and they were all sold out. Wondering if you could tell me where to buy it. Thx!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi Mike, no worries!
With the behmor 2000ab roasting a pound of coffee, could I do manual p5 til browning then go p4 til fc or if I keep it at p5 will it overheat, I am trying to replicate my small batch sizes to big batch sizes
Hi Carson, Sorry for the delay in response. If you insist on roasting 1 lb per batch, i would roast manually at full power, up to 305 and then lower power to P4. If temps still continue to climb, go to P3. Hopefully you will be approaching first crack by then.
The problem with replicating small batch with large batch is the timing of the phases.. Your roasts will take longer and the temps won't climb nearly as quickly because you are roasting twice as much coffee. It's a little more complicated than that but it is the short answer.
Sorry I can't give a better answer.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab no that was perfect, thank you so much!
I have a question, if the greens beans have let's say for the sake of the example 10% moisture how can they loose 12-14-15% moisture? And beyond that, if you ever measure roasted beans moisture they will read 3-5% moisture, so what is going on?
Thanks for watching and your question. Actually, that is a great question. Moisture content in the green beans is just that, the moisture content.
The moisture percentage loss after roasting is the percentage of weight loss when comparing the weight of the roasted coffee with the weight of the green beans. These are two different types of measurement.
The green beans moisture content is measured by an expensive electronics device capable of measuring moisture content in the structure of the cellulose of the seed.
The moisture loss I mention, which I use to help me understand color and ending temperature, gives me a pretty clear picture of roast level. It is not the amount of moisture left in the bean after roasting.
I think it can be a little confusing so I’m glad you asked that question. I probably should have said something in the video.
Thanks again for taking time to ask.
Any thoughts on doing a roast development video on 20-25% development time which is what Scott Rao thinks is ideal in comparison to the roast development %'s you have in this video using the Link? It strikes me how high his range is in comparison to what I would normally default to. I have played with driving down temperature to extend development time so that I can still hit medium roast on a 20% dev. coffee and have had mixed results on my Behmor. The link would give us far better use case data to drive understanding.
Hi Todd,. I’m not going to disagree that Scott did include the 20% in his commandments but I think he may have changed his view on that.
Regardless, I don’t want the development percentage to be the focus. My point in the video was development time and temperature. I have always been in favor of using development percentage but more recently my attention has been on development time, temperature and color.
Scott Rao did talk about development percentages of 20% in his books but more recently you can go to his blog and see that he does some roast coffee with a short development time as in this example development time of 45 seconds of a seven minute and twenty-eight minute roast. That is a little over 10% I think. Notice on his chart how he doesn’t use percentages, just times. I’ve enjoyed his coffee. It is excellent. I’ve tasted his freshly brewed coffee at the SCA workshop last year and his coffee purchased from Prodigal.
www.scottrao.com/blog/2023/9/20/consistency-in-roasting
I’m not going to argue for or against longer or shorter development. It is a personal choice.
My point of the video was; subtle changes in roasting temperatures and development time can be tasted. They do impact the cup. It was easier for me to do this video with the link and the unedited profiles are geared toward sample roasting.
Regardless the development percentage I believe the point is still the same.
I hope my response was helpful answering why I chose the lower development percentages. Thanks for your comment and for the suggestion to compare development at a higher range. I’ve got a limited time with the LINK and I hope to do a video on the middle phase. Any thoughts on that I should consider? Let me know and I will see how I might incorporate them into my video.
This is very helpful, thanks. For the middle phase the thing about the Link is that it is going to do it for you, as you know. So teaching from the profile you program in and showing the differences so that the person who has to go manual because they cannot afford a $1,800 home roaster would be beneficial I think. It will be impossible for the person on a behmor or a popcorn popper to replicate of course; yet if we can learn through data scenarios that effect taste in the cup based on what happens when the middle phase is lengthened versus when it is shortened on the opposite end of the spectrum is perhaps how a video like that can be helpful? @@VirtualCoffeeLab
Yes, that is what I had planned. Honestly, that was what I was trying to accomplish in this LINK video and all of the videos I do. I try and have concepts we can all apply regardless of our roaster. In an upcoming video you will see me use a DIY roaster which cost under 100 bucks .
Regarding my comment in my last reply to you about development percentages, I found the quote from Scott when he was asked "What has changed in coffee roasting the in the past 30 years" and What beliefs did you once hold and decide were wrong". He shared (very honestly) and it is a really really interesting article. I'll share the link at the end of this reply. in this post he addresses many of the topics we talk about as home roasters. Here is his quote:
Scott Rao says "The most famous (or infamous) advice in The Coffee Roaster’s Companion is a recommendation to drop coffee at a DTR of 20%-25%. Was that a mistake? Perhaps in delivery, but not in substance. Do I roast to 20%-25% DTR? Not often. Huh? At Prodigal, for example, we use an air roaster and average lower than 12% weight loss per batch. We’ve occasionally neared 20%, but most roasts end up with much lower DTR. How do I square the advice in CRC with my current approach? It’s simple: CRC was written for all of the world’s roasters, not just the 1% who roast the lightest. We light-roast lovers tend to live in a bubble and sometimes forget that perhaps 99% of the world’s roasts are dropped after first crack has ended, and most of those are dropped during second crack. In CRC, I invented the concept of DTR, and I made a recommendation that is fitting for a very large proportion of the world’s roasters. Of course, if you choose to be in the extreme 1% of a spectrum, typical approaches may not work well for you. "
www.scottrao.com/blog/2023/10/6/what-changed-in-coffee-over-the-past-30-years
I didn't share this to prove anyone right or wrong, but to clear up any sort of conversation that we have to roast to 20%DTR. That is what I love about roasting coffee. We can craft the roast to our desired roast level. Pretty cool stuff. Thanks again Todd for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate the interaction.
I get it, I am a light to medium guy as well. For me the interest is in what your next video will be; like I said before, I play with how to extend the roast development so that it is getting higher while still staying medium, about 14% coffee loss.@@VirtualCoffeeLab
So what does someone get from the Link in comparison to Kaffelogic Nano 7 for some $700 more? Do they do the same recipe saving and recipe sharing? To me, the power would be the ability to order from Captains Coffee and get a community of shared recipes that you can program into the machine on the specific bean you just got delivered. Can Nano 7 do that as well?
Hi Todd, the LINK approaches the profile differently. A first crack temperature is determined based on bean density, which the link app determines with the use of their proprietary density tube. Over 300 profiles come with the link as well as the studio to create custom profiles. The software is different and I don’t think the profiles can be shared with the nano. It also comes with a very durable pelican type carry case.
Thanks for the info and for the videos, you do a great job, keep up the great work!@@VirtualCoffeeLab
Did the development classifications match the roast? For me mine says it’s medium light but it turns out to be very light so I have to develop much longer than the recommendation (possibly humidity since I keep beans at 68%?).
The ending temperature is also a variable you can adjust. Try increasing the ending temp 2 degrees.
Generally speaking, the Honduran coffee color appears a little lighter than some coffees I’ve roasted. Looking strictly at the moisture loss as a measurement and comparing that with other roasting machines I think the results are different. The 12.5% moisture loss on the middle roast tastes very similar to the 13.5% on the Kaleido M2’s. The only explanation I have is one is a small volume air roaster and the other is a drum roaster with 4 times the capacity?
As far as classifications go, they seem to vary from one source to another. Which source are you referring to? SCA, Rob Hoos? Just curious.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab So when you change the recommended level at the bottom of the app, it will show you the Link Studio targeted classification next to the temperature - thats how you raise the final temperature and extend the development time. For post roast analysis I use an DiFluid Omni and the SCA Agtron scale.
Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand what you meant. On the Studio is is called "recommended level". As far as taste goes, the development level did match the taste within the spectrum of origin notes. As I mentioned in the video, none of these roasts fell into the classification of a dark roast coffee like most might think. There was no "roasty" notes on these roasts. Here is what the studio levels displayed:
10% was a MEDI-LIGHT
12.7% was MEDIUM
15.7% was DARK
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Ok thank you, very helpful. I think the recommended level and their classification must be based on a certain humidity because it is never accurate. Obviously it's what is in the cup that matters and it's easy enough with this roaster to develop a little longer and then consistently do the same thing over and over again. Love the video because it shows how on this roaster, seconds matter - which has been my experience with it - so it's good to see someone much more experienced play with it - feel less crazy, lol. Thank you!
Not sure about "more experienced", especially with this roaster. Have you created custom profiles? I'm assuming you started with an existing profile and then modified it in the Studio right?
Do yoy have videos roasting robusta coffe from Panama Rep?
Hi Felix. Unfortunately I do not. Sorry about that.
I don’t think I do. I have roasted Panama coffee but I don’t remember roasting it here on my channel.
Is the link software for a Mac and part of the $1850 purchase price for the Link? Thanks
The link app for the phone which tells you the profiles first crack temperature and the link studio software are free. They have a pc and a Mac version. nucleuscoffeetools.com/products/link/ and scroll all the way down the page to the downloads.
By the way, it also comes with the carrying case. See the url I pasted above
I have a Link and, yes, it runs on a Mac as in included in the price. The only glitch on a Mac is that you have to cmd-right click to install because they are not verified developers.