Although I work for a roastery that does not roast for brew method, I completely agree with you that "omni-roast" is not a defined roasting style in terms of being characterised by end temp, DTR or length. It is simply a suggestion by the roaster that the coffee you have can be brewed in many different ways, and is different for everyone, and totally subjective. If you happen to like your filters a certain way that is incompatible with espresso, it makes no sense to roast the coffee so it "sort of" works for both, and vice versa. Where I work, espresso is not a concern of ours at all, we roast until the coffee cups the best it possible can in every area of the scoring chart, and makes the best filter it possibly can. However we do not call them filter roasts. (we are roasting on a Loring like you I believe). I would say half of the time that those roasts are compatible with espresso brewing, albeit occasionally needing a broader mind in terms of the recipe and other factors (higher yield, pressure/water temp etc). They may not be absolutely perfect for espresso, but we don't recommend it to be used for espresso, despite the fact that it does work. Again, espresso is not our concern. It is very much up to our customers to decide what to do with the coffee unless we suggest that espresso just won't work. However I understand that if you intend to specifically provide coffee that can be used for espresso, there will be differences. I'd be interested in showing you some roast curves over email / sending you some coffee if you don't mind furthering the discussion. Our companies work differently but I do think we've got a lot in common.
Likewise my impression of espresso in most coffee shops is a drink that's very strong, but also either very bitter or very acidic and not particularly enjoyable. I was recently in Napoli and was surprised at the shots coming out of what looked like almost burnt beans, and equipment that would probably make speciality coffee fans cringe. The shots had some bitterness, but also some caramel-like sweetness, just a hint of fruitiness. I found it surprisingly enjoyable. Now they're using probably very cheap beans and not the top equipment, but still managed to get something tasty out of it. This just makes me think that properly roasted espresso should be easy to brew well and shouldn't require very expensive grinders or equipment to extract.
Here's a HUGE point of contention: most people tend to drink more than one type of coffee, whether filter and espresso, french press and turkish etc... etc... now we know that buying specific grinders for specific uses makes sense, but most people can't afford that. What would you advise for a budget enthusiast who wants a good espresso and filter grinder? probably around the 400-600$ mark max
Hi Leo, thank you for watching. For Filter (and Espresso) on the same grinder we would go with the new Wilfa Grinder. We actually won a few national brewing competitions using the earlier versions of the Wilfa - which shouldn't cost you more than $40.
How much coffee is "wasted" perfecting a roasting method/technique? So if for ex. , you get a new green coffee, how many batches to get your optimal result?
Hi Maria, Thank you for watching, we would be "wasting" about 5% of the coffee. That being said the coffee is not wasted as the farmer has received payment already and I believe our job is to represent the farmers work as well as we can. Our farmers wouldn't send us coffee that isn't up to the standard we are looking for and we do the same for our clients.
What kind of water do you use for your drip? I've designed my own water fallowing some different online recipes , used volvic but in general I prefer water that is slightly harder. Like volvic mixed with Berlin tap water. Maybe because it has a higher magnesium content. I feel like it's slightly sweeter and more extracted with the coffee I roast. I'm trying to figure out my water brews so it can be tweaked for lighter or medium roasts. This is such a big variable. I've been buying coffee from world class roasters for the last 15 years and allot of it has tasted like shit! About 6 years ago I realized its probably not the roasters but the water. If I had a roasting company I would ship coffee with thirdwave water packs or sell a peak filter so the coffee can really be optimized and everyone can enjoyed the same coffee with flavour profile the roaster intended and not be like " man this coffee taste like shit, how has he even made a name for himself"
Thank you for watching Luke. Water is important, however, we don't believe it to make coffee go from "great" to "bad" unless you are working with incredibly "bad" water. We focus more on the content of minerals than the total hardness. Best of luck in your search.
I was told by an experienced roaster/green buyer that roast degree has no impact on solubility. Are there any studies to refer to this theory of solubility and roast degree or is just a popular opinion coffee professionals have adopted? I personally believe that it is more agreeable to take an espresso roast higher in end temp to bring out more robust flavors that can compliment the milk they are most often served in. Let’s face it, most of Espresso served is an ingredient and to treat it as though it should be akin to a filter coffee (what with all these folks on the pressure profiling bandwagon) I think it is a misstep. Most often a beautiful bright washed coffee that is served in a milk based beverage is either far too subtle, or makes the milk taste sour in some cases.
Thank you for watching. We have a "solubility" record that shows clearly that there is a difference in solubility based on roast degree, however, it is not linear.
@@coffeewithapril What kind of brewing device/extraction did you use for this study. Did you extract all possible soluble material, or did you measure what was extracted in a particular brew set, like cupping bowls?
Although I work for a roastery that does not roast for brew method, I completely agree with you that "omni-roast" is not a defined roasting style in terms of being characterised by end temp, DTR or length.
It is simply a suggestion by the roaster that the coffee you have can be brewed in many different ways, and is different for everyone, and totally subjective.
If you happen to like your filters a certain way that is incompatible with espresso, it makes no sense to roast the coffee so it "sort of" works for both, and vice versa.
Where I work, espresso is not a concern of ours at all, we roast until the coffee cups the best it possible can in every area of the scoring chart, and makes the best filter it possibly can. However we do not call them filter roasts. (we are roasting on a Loring like you I believe).
I would say half of the time that those roasts are compatible with espresso brewing, albeit occasionally needing a broader mind in terms of the recipe and other factors (higher yield, pressure/water temp etc).
They may not be absolutely perfect for espresso, but we don't recommend it to be used for espresso, despite the fact that it does work. Again, espresso is not our concern.
It is very much up to our customers to decide what to do with the coffee unless we suggest that espresso just won't work. However I understand that if you intend to specifically provide coffee that can be used for espresso, there will be differences.
I'd be interested in showing you some roast curves over email / sending you some coffee if you don't mind furthering the discussion. Our companies work differently but I do think we've got a lot in common.
I appreciate how you think out of the box:; inspiring!
Thank you for watching.
Likewise my impression of espresso in most coffee shops is a drink that's very strong, but also either very bitter or very acidic and not particularly enjoyable. I was recently in Napoli and was surprised at the shots coming out of what looked like almost burnt beans, and equipment that would probably make speciality coffee fans cringe. The shots had some bitterness, but also some caramel-like sweetness, just a hint of fruitiness. I found it surprisingly enjoyable. Now they're using probably very cheap beans and not the top equipment, but still managed to get something tasty out of it. This just makes me think that properly roasted espresso should be easy to brew well and shouldn't require very expensive grinders or equipment to extract.
Here's a HUGE point of contention: most people tend to drink more than one type of coffee, whether filter and espresso, french press and turkish etc... etc... now we know that buying specific grinders for specific uses makes sense, but most people can't afford that. What would you advise for a budget enthusiast who wants a good espresso and filter grinder? probably around the 400-600$ mark max
Hi Leo, thank you for watching. For Filter (and Espresso) on the same grinder we would go with the new Wilfa Grinder. We actually won a few national brewing competitions using the earlier versions of the Wilfa - which shouldn't cost you more than $40.
How much coffee is "wasted" perfecting a roasting method/technique? So if for ex. , you get a new green coffee, how many batches to get your optimal result?
Hi Maria,
Thank you for watching, we would be "wasting" about 5% of the coffee. That being said the coffee is not wasted as the farmer has received payment already and I believe our job is to represent the farmers work as well as we can. Our farmers wouldn't send us coffee that isn't up to the standard we are looking for and we do the same for our clients.
What kind of water do you use for your drip? I've designed my own water fallowing some different online recipes , used volvic but in general I prefer water that is slightly harder. Like volvic mixed with Berlin tap water. Maybe because it has a higher magnesium content. I feel like it's slightly sweeter and more extracted with the coffee I roast. I'm trying to figure out my water brews so it can be tweaked for lighter or medium roasts. This is such a big variable. I've been buying coffee from world class roasters for the last 15 years and allot of it has tasted like shit! About 6 years ago I realized its probably not the roasters but the water. If I had a roasting company I would ship coffee with thirdwave water packs or sell a peak filter so the coffee can really be optimized and everyone can enjoyed the same coffee with flavour profile the roaster intended and not be like " man this coffee taste like shit, how has he even made a name for himself"
Thank you for watching Luke. Water is important, however, we don't believe it to make coffee go from "great" to "bad" unless you are working with incredibly "bad" water. We focus more on the content of minerals than the total hardness. Best of luck in your search.
I was told by an experienced roaster/green buyer that roast degree has no impact on solubility. Are there any studies to refer to this theory of solubility and roast degree or is just a popular opinion coffee professionals have adopted?
I personally believe that it is more agreeable to take an espresso roast higher in end temp to bring out more robust flavors that can compliment the milk they are most often served in.
Let’s face it, most of Espresso served is an ingredient and to treat it as though it should be akin to a filter coffee (what with all these folks on the pressure profiling bandwagon) I think it is a misstep. Most often a beautiful bright washed coffee that is served in a milk based beverage is either far too subtle, or makes the milk taste sour in some cases.
Thank you for watching. We have a "solubility" record that shows clearly that there is a difference in solubility based on roast degree, however, it is not linear.
This is fascinating, would you perhaps consider uploading a version to a googlesheet please?
@@coffeewithapril What kind of brewing device/extraction did you use for this study. Did you extract all possible soluble material, or did you measure what was extracted in a particular brew set, like cupping bowls?
@@roasterjoe Thank you for watching Joe, that would be full immersion brews.
Shit! Just kidding, this was fun and very informative.