Understanding Espresso - Brew Temperature (Episode #5)
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2020
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Развлечения
Those close-up shots are so stunning. Not only are you clear, knowledgeable, and enjoyable to watch, your filmmaking is flawless. The world of coffee is lucky to have you as a voice.
James Hoffman b-roll is always perfect and the a-roll is always perfectly lighted
Nothing to add
Dammit, James, stop teasing us with those coffee porn shots! XD
Your filming is to the glory of coffee art.
"those close up shots" - it is a "coffee industry" looking at you. Your reaction - it is exactly what these shots made for.
Some takeaways:
- As always, the key here is repeatability - it is important to keep temperature (profile) the same for shots, so you can mess with the other factors
- Hotter = More extraction (more bitter) - Colder = Less extraction (more sour)
- Lighter roasts need more heat, darker roasts need less heat
- Use a temperature according to your roast level, to be in a good ballpark, then MAYBE fine tune it as the last thing to round out your shot
- Temperature profiles could induce some magic, results may vary
I think the biggest takeaway is that temperature changes, Especially sub 1C don’t make much of a difference. Other variables are far more impactful
85-90 : darker
roast
88-92 : medium espresso
roast
90-95 : lighter
roasts
Make 1C changes at least
Well said
This comment should be pinned. I got lost in the video and had difficulty getting the conclusions.
profile also means extraction pressure
I'm still consistently mesmerized by how cool his sweaters are.
Jumpers in the UK are best in class. Nothing cuts the damp of winter in England quite like a wool jumper.
Need them in full 4k glory!
Lol barf
i bet it has a good temperature profile
Anyone know where to find similar ones?
1:07 James trying to convince us that guy is not just him with a mustache on.
HAHAHA
Genius
damn man u fbi!
Genius
Lol it might be, who knows 😂
Sometimes I wish I hadn’t gone down the rabbit hole of how complex chasing coffee flavours can be🤔
But then I play with it on days off and I love how many subtlety’s and nuances you can find in different roasts.
Thank you James for opening up this world for me🙏🏼
James because of your reviews I bought myself a really wonderful coffee machine for my homebar. From now on I'll enjoy amazing espresso every day and I will make espresso cocktails even better! Thank you for you wonderful content!
Have you tried Mr Black instead of Khalua for espresso Martinis? I am loving this combo it's delicious.
@@UncleSkiBum I can't get Mr.Black where I'm based (yet!) but I did make my own coffee liqueur, because Kahlua really is too sweet (you can see it in my Revolver episode). A slightly different approach to James' coffee amaro, but that's the beauty of mixology if you ask me.
What machine did you get?
@@jimrobinson9979 Yes, inquiring minds want to know! What machine did you get? 😉
@@davidhunternyc1 and Jim I bought Sage the Barista express. I was choosing between Lelit Anita and this Sage. Amazing coffee so far! Since all the bars are closed I missed good coffee.
The way James said have a great day, in combination with that smile, really made me feel like he genuinely wanted me to have a great day. Such a nice chill guy.
James : understanding Espresso, brew temperatur.
Me as Mokapot user : leave group.
Lol
Do not despair, its possible to tweak brew temp in the moka by using a different initial water temperature! See this experiment ruclips.net/video/ObkjKlJe68A/видео.html and this paper www.msc.univ-paris-diderot.fr/~phyexp/uploads/Moka/article1.pdf
@@Spiun666 yeah, thanks dude
James has a video for that.
@@alanlansdell7533 i'll search that. Thx.
I've been binge watching his videos, now I look at coffee at a completely different way. I am now a coffee nerd as well.
Finally, I have a use for the phrase "fluffier espresso".
Just wanna say, your videos this year have turned me into a real coffee nerd, and I really appreciate that.
Oh the irony. I got a Nespresso pre-roll ad
Wonderfully clear, as always. James, you DO have a gift, the ability to communicate as if speaking to the individual, as opposed to the gathered masses. It also helps that you know of what you speak. Cheers.
Brew temperature is one of the things why I recently bought the Eagle One Prima! Can't wait to play with the temperature and the information you've shared. Thank you James!
Please do a video on decaf coffee!! My heart struggles so I can’t handle any caffeine at all, but still love coffee😊 And I feel like decaf gets a lot of hate by the coffee community
I do believe it's coming soon
Doesnt decaf still have caffeine in it..
@@alexgalaxynexus If so, it's certainly a lot less.
The New York Times science section did on article on decaf coffee a long time ago. Decaffeinated coffee can have "up to" 75% of the caffeine as the caffeinated versions. Different coffee producers and even individual batches from the same line of coffee yields different caffeinated levels. To take out all of the caffeine in coffee will leave the coffee essentially tasteless. People who say they are allergic to caffeine and then order decaf coffee are full of BS... but let's see what James has to say. I could be wrong. ☺️
@@davidhunternyc1 haha okay, well I have some doctors and ECG’s that would prove otherwise😂 but that being said I can definitely tell when the decaf I’m drinking has higher trace amounts of caffeine, and can only tolerate decaf at all on my good days... but I shouldn’t have to justify my heart problems to a stranger who read a New York Times article
Just discovered your channel!! EXCELLENT videos, James! I have recently become more confident in pulling temperature-sensitive (for my tastes!) shots with my Flair espresso maker, and as a lover of dark roasts, bringing the temperature down has opened up the flavors beautifully. Thanks for creating really well-done videos, sir. Hope you have a happy Christmas and New Year!!
This is excellent - thank you. Had been getting consistently underwhelming bitter espresso and flat whites from my Oracle Touch. Dialled it down from 93 to 89 and it tastes infinitely better
I have the same problem with my Oracle Touch. Taste has been a bit bitter/? Burnt. Tomorrow I’m gonna try lower temperature on my dark roast beans and see if it tastes better.
Thank you so much for talking about altitude! Living in a place where water boils at 93 degrees, I was concerned about that issue while getting into my espresso journey. I'm sure if I had really put my head to it, I would have come to the same realization, but it was encouraging to have you put those worries to rest.
Thank you for this video James. I had recently bought a darker roast coffee then I was used to and didn't really enjoy it as much as my usual roast. Even after getting my ratio and grind settings where I liked it. I then watched this and realised it was a darker roast and tried turning the temperature down to 88 degrees from the 92 that I was used to and it improved my shots to the point I now very much enjoy the darker roast. Keep up the great and informative videos, it very much helps the people who aren't experts and need a reminder of what to try to get the most enjoyment out of our espresso.
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This brings back memories, temp surfing on my old single boiler brasilia club... grateful to have a pid double boiler now!
I would not have been able to move into espresso brewing as easily and quickly without your kjnd words as well as so many others!
New machine and all!!
Grinder due in days
So very thankful!!
I recently made the change from 88C to 90C on my machine in work and started weighing every shot to closely monitor ratios and the difference has been outstanding. Using a medium roast Ethiopian sidamo, with 18.5g shots with around 26-28 second brew times. The temperature change brought out more of the fruitiness while bringing the sourness to an enjoyable level. Also, thank you for all of the work you do on this channel, a lot of your content has been very useful to me in learning more about everything coffee 👍
James! My shots have improved immensely since I started watching your videos. Thanks so much!
The reason why this channel is so popular, is because there are so much variables to control when making espresso. When you are in a home environment and are only making a few espresso shots each day, the circumstances to get consistency in technique, temperature and aging of coffee are far from ideal and I would argue almost impossible, hence the name god shot. There is much too little attention for this, because most people advertising and explaining are also selling machines and equipment. It is the same with HiFi really. Temperature (profile) stability is important, but most cheaper 1-2k HX machines will have such dramatic differences in heat build up or cooling down in a home environment that the water running through the puck is much more impacted by timing and external factors, than it is by the set PID temperature.
I've discovered so many cool songs by watching James' videos.
This has been super helpful! Especially after installing PID on my Silvia V6.
Today an Aeropress video would be the best Christmas present ever.
I'd love to see a video on cleaning coffee grinders: how? how often? it's effect on flavor (can you taste when you need to clean?) Once I experimented with all kinds of recipes, ratios, grind sizes, temps, beans, etc and couldn't shake an unpleasant bitterness. Turns out I needed to clean my grinder and the bitterness from old oils was hiding all the nice coffee flavors. I had to laugh at all my "failed" experiments, but I imagine plenty of people out there aren't cleaning their grinders often or at all and have similar issues.
Your insight are always helpful. I really enjoy your rigorous scientific approach and how you manage to explain the concepts. I got my Gaggia Classic pro after your review and I am pleased with it! Hi from Québec!
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A very informative video. Also made falling asleep possible for me last night. Rewatching now.
Can't say I have any saying about brew temperatures, yet. Still learning the deeds, but fortunately the algorithm led me to your channel and I have been learning a lot about coffee.
The only good thing about the lockdown was that I started to drink more espressos at home and by consequence the Nespresso didn't handle my coffee habits and broke, which was a good thing. I bought what I now understand is an appliance and not a true coffee machine and used an old blade grinder that my parents have, to grind beans I'm buying from one of the old coffee houses in Lisbon.
In the process I learned more about these old coffee shops and how it mixes some of my country's history around coffee. A big part of it it's now something to be proud of.
But I found that there's a regular roasting, still using old German firewood roasters in Lisbon and more or less every two weeks I'm buying different coffee and taste it.
But through your videos I found that grinding size matters. Already did an investment on a Rancilio Rocky and in a near future I'm planning to buy an entry level coffee machine.
Hopefully I can share my thoughts about this subject. For now I keep learning.
Thank you so much for your videos and how clear you explain all subjects.
I also appreciate how kind you are for your giveaways to coffee lovers who can't afford. That's also very generous from you. Kudos for you! 🙏🏼
Thanks for the hard work!
Always inspired by your videos James. Thank you
It's always super fun to hear you talk about the early days of the internet where all the good online coffee science was being done in user groups and little-known BBSes.
I bought your book as an auto-Christmas present! It will be many, many years before come close to your love and knowledge of coffee, but I definitely feel I've set off on the path
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Once again my level of understanding espresso has jumped up a notch. My takeaway is that for people like me who don't have a pid of temperature control we need to find the right roast for our machines.
Now I just need to work out how to measure the temperature of my brew water.
Another excellent and informative visa @James Hoffman. I have been recommending your espresso videos to several friends and coworkers who are just starting into espresso at home. Thanks for continuing to put out quality content.
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@@stephengardner9512 certainly doesn't sound like sir James
Hi James Hoffmann!
Hope you read this message. I am learning a great deal about coffee watching your videos.
I started weighing and timing while brewing following the V60 method video.
Looking forward to more videos.
Thanks again!
Welcome to the game friend! I'm sorry about your wallet.
@@rafaelmonteirorodrigues4672 Very right. I don’t own a V60, something similar. But the method is awesome!
I like your intro sequence with the bubbles and stream. It's very evocative - I can almost smell it :D
Nicely summarized James. For those of us with La Pavoni's we usually literally add a temperature strip to our group head so we can monitor the outside temp of the head. Frequently the first shots pulled by an inexperienced owner will be awful, because they didn't get the head up to temp first.
I have a Pavoni too, and for some time I got a bit obsessed with strip temp differences with actual inside head temp and the result extracted temp. I tried some ways to measured them, but there was so many inconsistencies that I gave up and now I just hope for the best, pulling the lever until it reaches 90 in the strip. Have you got any opinion or advices to give on the particular? Thank you!!
Production quality is constantly rising!🔥
Very helpful analysis that became pertinent once I installed a PID on my machine. Thanks!
Terrific video! Thanks for sharing all your knowledge like this. I built a group head heater for my espresso machine - now I have separate control over my boiler temp and my group head temp and it's really been a game changer for me. Before my mod, that machine always started a shot with cooler temp and then got hotter as the shot progressed - the opposite of what I wanted. Now I can get that initial hotter temp that cools as the shot progresses OR I can set it to hold a constant temp thru the entire shot. I'm going to have to try your 80C experiment - sounds interesting!
I got rid of my Rancilio Silvia for a flair espresso for control of temperature and pressure alone. Achieved much better shots
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I have a book recommendation for those who enjoy the Understanding Espresso series. 'Espresso Coffee: The Science of Quality' by Andrea Illy is my go-to, the charts in it alone are amazing, and I dig through the glossary to answer a lot of my questions quite often. It covers a lot of things I don't often see discussed.
Thank you for making this video 😊
I always enjoy the insights---thanks.
Ballpark numbers:
85°-90° C, dark roast
88°-92° C, medium roast
90°-95° C, light roast
Also, higher temp. → lower acidity.
Hi, James! Great video. I was just wondering if you might consider making a video on how different group heads affect thermal stability. My head is spinning thinking about saturated, semi saturated, E61, with or without PID… So grateful for your expertise, I love how much I can learn from you!
Great video. Will try this with my PID.
James, because of your reviews and wonderful content you have inspired me to buy my first espresso machine. I can’t wait to get everything up and running and start experimenting to find the perfect brew for me.
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James, that opening espresso shot is probably your best yet
It really is utterly divine.
Great series! I wanted to brush up on my basics before my Flair 2 arrives.
Great video discussion. I recently started experimenting with roasting high altitude central American varieties to lighter roasts. Most of my coffee I roast at medium City and up to 2nd crack depending on the origin. While trying light roasting (think caramel colored product) I found at 205ºF in my Profitec Pro, I was getting some what sour and thinner bodied shots. Afte playing with dose and tamp a while I couldn't seem to get the shots I was looking for and I actually had several instances of the puck hanging in the brew group when I removed the portafilter. I started increasing the temp by 5ºF steps and never did get the results I was after but did notice differences with the temp changes. This is all using an espresso machine and no pour over brews were attempted with the lighter roasts. I may go back and try the lighter roasts with pour over and see what I get. My original espresso machine was an Expobar Office Lever which was notorious for 215º brew temp, so I had to constantly fllush and surf to get the temp down for brewing. I got adept at it, but after years of messing with it, I finally bought a PID dual boiler machine and what a difference. Dialing in was so much faster and I get consistently great shots.
Thanks it’s really great information. What I like to add here is temperature increases or speed up the solubility which means increase extraction and vice versa.
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THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN WAITING FOR
I was looking forward to watching this video because I have had some noticeable changes with lower setup changes (~0.6 degrees Fahrenheit) and I use temperature changes to adjust ratio at times without touching dose, if that makes sense. It seems to me that temperature effects the "power" of the water going through the puck; you can slow down extraction by reducing temperature a bit (or increasing for opposite effect as you mentioned) I tend to use those changes to fix ageing coffee so lower temperature as it ages to keep things balanced. I usually brew fairly dark old-school espresso so the bitter notes tend to come through for me as it ages. Great video as always! Thank you for making these.
I enjoyed this series within a series. I am grateful to be more knowledgeable than when I started. How about doing a video on brewing pressure to cap off this series 🙏
Finally someone who mentioned the altitude issue! Ever since I’ve been reading and watching videos about espresso - I don’t own my own machine yet - I’ve been wondering whether it would be possible to make a decent espresso when living high up on a mountain. Thanks!
That opening shot!
nice vid - thanks for sharing your thoughts
Great discussion on temperature. I'm using a superauto Philips Carina so my adjustments are limited, but I was messing with my grind settings and just wasn't getting any clarity or flavor profile at different grind settings. Either muted and ashy or too sour. Dropping the "aroma" setting or temp seemed to help me. Now that I have this super auto I really just want a real machine, I have a nice grinder but I never got a machine to match it. Anyways I'm enjoying watching your content again, amazing to see the growth in your channel. Happy New Year!
I started to brew espresso at a lower temp and in my opinion it's less sour. thank you for explications. I am watching your videos over and over again to get a better understanding! thank you!
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Great class lecture from Professor James today. 😁
I have to say that lockdown this year has made me a lot more interested in coffee. It was always part of my day to buy an Americana at least once a day and maybe more if I was travelling. But since watching your videos things have changed and I’m questioning the flavour taste and consistency of my Perkulator coffee... i’ve got the cheapest electric grinder from Lidl and a £10 per Q later but I’m now doing my best including removing the jug and using it as a brew for one cup.. but I’m always amazed how different ways of making coffee give a very different results....
cheers mate!
Really useful video, I'm getting more sourness on a cafelat robot and kinu than I'd like, I'll definitely let my kettle cool off a tad!
I am relatively new to espresso and use a Europiccola and despite having recently fitted the temperature strips, I’m aware that if the temperature varies slightly between shots, for example if I’m distracted, the results can be very different.
However, there are so many other variables - beans, grind, tamp, pull - I have no real idea what impact the temperature factor is really playing.
Actually, I just think I have no idea generally - but I’m having fun ☺️
Thank you James! I recently bought an ECM Synchronika after playing with the Sylvia with (self-)installed PID for two years. A proper machine being able to hold a constant temperature for sure makes a huge difference.
Thank you for the great overview on brewing temperature! Definitely helps finding the right windows for different roast levels.
Could you please also say something about the growth altitute of the coffee and the brew temperature?
I was fiddling around with temperatures today because my little hot-rodded 6-bar "Barista" branded Saeco Via Venezia was pulling better tasting shots than my vintage ECM HX with the same grind (Ethiopian Harar, light roast). Long ago I had lowered the temp(via pressurestat) on the ECM and as it turns out, it was running way lower temp at 85-88c while the Saeco was making 93c at the onset of brewing. Now the big ECM is back on par! (set at constant 9 Bar btw) A couple of observations -- Without a Scace thermocouple device, you can measure the brew temp by folding a thermocouple wire over the rim of the basket and inserting it into the portafilter basket -- a bit fiddly but doable. Also it's quite difficult to measure accurately without limiting flow since the high-flow will make the brew temp change quickly, even on the HX machine. I used some Aeropress Mini filters to slow down the flow a little. Your DVM/D-Thermometer may have some lag measuring temperatures and you may want to make several observations after letting your machine come back up to temperature between each measurement.
While I just am using a SMEG which isn’t a machine I’d presume you approve of, I was still able to use the information I’ve learned from you to make some observation based tests and changes to using my machine. Thank you. I’m pulling a MUCH MUCH better espresso ☕️ from my machine and know so much more for the futures whenever I have the time to upgrade. I bought the SMEG as Covid put my partner and I out of work because sitting in a coffee shop and having an espresso or a flat white is one of the greatest joys in my life. With the shops closed and the budget tight, I bought this machine early on so we could continue to have the best espresso I could given the situation. I wish I’d discovered you earlier on but I’m grateful to you for being a resource out there. 🤗
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James, awesome vid as always... always throwing a wrench into my espresso to make me wanna learn more about my espresso taste and shot. :)
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Thanks a lot James for wrapping up this topic in such a comprehensive way. I use a HX machine with a pressurestat and a thermostat-controlled grouphead heater, both with a dead band and therefore, you might think, highly inconsistent. However, I feel that running a temp-surfing/cooling flush greatly brings down the error of margin from what I can taste. Whether it runs at 92 or 95 degC I don’t know and don’t care really, as long as it is consistent to my taste buds. With this machine, I feel grind setting and brew ratio are worth experimenting with rather than trying to manipulate temperature by longer or shorter cooling flushes.
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This was such a great video very informative.
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Fascinating!! I would love to hear your thoughts on brew temperature for pour over and aeropress coffee. I love that I can dial in the temperature very precisely on my Brewista kettle!
I only changed temperature twice a year on my lever machine. It was in a not very well isolated room, so in the summer I would lower the temperature by two degrees compared to the winter to compensate for the lower heatloss of the enormous grouphead. I always noticed it when my brewtimes would increase or decrease dramatically when the room cooled down or heated up, not so much by taste. With my other machines I almost never change the temperature.
I take my espresso machine hiking so that altitude info was very useful!
James your hair is always on point
Really like your video it is really informtive!
TnX James
Hi James , on the matter of using Distilled Water to moisten grounds to reduce static vs Filtered Water, and a poorer flavour with the distilled water. Years back when we used the early mini-paper pod machines at Rapido we tried using Distilled water to reduce limescale build up. The coffee was undrinkable, with zero crema and massive over extraction. A percentage of mineral is essential to get a good espresso. So - your trial results make sense, even with just a tiny spray . .
I WANT THAT SWEATER!
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I realise with a lot of experiments that the Roast level Is not the only factor for changing the temperature the coffee bean itself is also a factor because the bean could have a perfumy note while it's dark roasted so when i tried it in lower temperature it became flat and a little bitter than i locked all the variables and then done some experiments and the result was that 95 C was the sweet spot so a think the temperature scale according to a roast level is not a perfect scale
whenever he mentions that giveaway I cry a little bit because I most certainly cannot afford a grinder but I also don't live in one of those 39 countries 😢
Which country are you in?
@@thecatofnineswords Egypt
@@3omar_a7maad Can we arrange some internet magic to get you a grinder?
@@thecatofnineswords what kind of magic?
That's a great sir they help me for my Frist interview i really thankful too you really amezing tips giving for me thankyou sir I really appreciate 🙏🙏
The intro b-roll 😍😍
Me….never drinking a swig of coffee before quarantine…down the rabbit hole into Coffee Science…WOW! I’m happy I’ve arrived though 😊
What was really interesting for me, was group head temperature on my La Pavoni. Before I got a temperature strip I would flush my group head until there was a nice, uniform stream of water through the shower screen. Some of my shots ended up a bit bitter, especially if I made few in a row. After installing the temp. strip it turned out that the GH would get way too hot during that flushing. What I find most important is being aware what exactly is going on during the shot. That way you can really be as consistent as possible. I have to try upping the temp. a bit for lighter roast coffee. As always, great and very informative video. Keep up the good work :)
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Hi James, We just discovered you... What a pleasure. I spend the last 5-6 hr and expect to watch more in your site.
I absolutely love how you explore the brewing to the, well molecular level.
This is not a complaint who am I to complain about videos so well made!!
Your videos are so detailed and dedicated!
I think for the less involved or less able to explore gears I wish you would have reviews in the likes of Best 'grinder' or 'maker' to help the less fortunate so we do not make unfortunate choices.
We love coffee. I am really loving the
I wish I could get RoK grinder for example but for us it is a big expense.
I wish you would have vids saying best 3 "xyz" tool under 100 pounds then best under 300 etc.
We really cannot afford making a mistake and well since we just discovered you we missed all your great give-away.
If easier you could message me. We love coffee, well need it!, but with the current situation we just cannot afford any mistakes.
Cheers,
Alain, Vancouver BC.
This video “broke my head“
You said you were curious about our comments. I think you're the god of espresso, man
Great video. I have always used a PID and I do find that I can significantly change the flavour of the espresso by moving the temperature up or down 1, 2, 3, or more degrees. I can have a very big impact on acidity or bitterness. The shot can get more complex or more boring. I don't think I would want an espresso machine that doesn't offer temperature control.
oh dear, that's why I suddenly have problems with darker roasts! When I had a medium roast, I changed the temperature to 95°C (which tasted great) but never changed it back when switching to a dark roast.
I have a dark roast at the moment and just pulled one at 84c and it was spot on! I've also gone to 98 for lighter roasts and they're also good! Personally I think the whole 88-96 is just a safe range to get started. Same with the 25-30 second rule, it's just a safe starting point.
Another great video thanks
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She's excellent at what she does, tell her i referred you to her. Her strategies are top notch.🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷✔✔
Contest Entry: I’d love to win, my current grinder for my pour overs is a spice grinder. Love your content!
For the last 8 weeks I have been pulling the same shot. Everything fine, minor variations in flavor. Then one shot was outstandingly good. I have no idea what was different.
I've been listening to James Hoffman for couple of years now and love his analysis and the way he thinks about coffee. I'm really sorry I'm saying this but this looks like an advertisement for Eagle one.
I have a 1992 gaggia baby and a sette 30 as m a budget man and its the best home set up. The reason why as theres no need for coffee waist and if i get within 2s i will always get a great espresso. If i strive towards perfection it just seems unattainable and not worth it. I wish i could get perfect espresso every time but thats not possible. I just settle with great.
I’m mokapot user with pre ground coffee for my daily dose. Planning to goes into espresso machine soon and watching all the videos from James are really helpful for beginner like me. Would like to have the grinder to kickstart my hobby.
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+1.....(8....0....7) ....7....7....0....2....7....0....6
She's excellent at what she does, tell her i referred you to her. Her strategies are top notch.🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
And just like that: Another thing to worry about. Thanks, James ;)
Thanks for watching, Get in touch with my manager on WhatsApp regarding to make millions for you in Bitcoin
+1.....(8....0....7) ....7....7....0....2....7....0....6
She's excellent at what she does, tell her i referred you to her. Her strategies are top notch.🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷✔✔
Such a great topic that I feel can sometimes be overlooked more so than not! (Totally not talking about myself) 😷