Debate w/ YouTubers Angry At xQc And Hasan
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- xQc and Hasan kicks off another react content drama. DarkViperAU takes shots at Destiny but refuses to talk to him. Mauler talks w/ Destiny and Aba drags in Mutahar AKA SomeOrdinaryGamer to fight Destiny on his react content takes...
Are Reactions Harming Channels? (INTRO VIDEO)
► • Are Reactions Harming ...
Date: 30 July, 2023
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00:00:00 Teasers / Intro
00:00:33 Are Reactions Harming Channels? Necrit
00:04:28 xQc and Hasan's Lemmino react video go viral
00:08:19 Streamers are talentless hacks
00:17:29 "Paid in exposure"
00:20:10 August is retarded
00:27:28 DarkviperAU poisons well against Destiny
00:28:26 Destiny goes through his tweets
00:32:16 DarkViperAU calls Destiny a dishonest actor
00:44:06 xQc viewers watch his videos for him and not the videos
00:48:29 DarkViperAU refuses to talk to Destiny despite call ou
00:55:45 Destiny's solution
01:00:06 Can DarkViperAU not tell the difference?
01:02:01 Destiny investigates CGP Grey DMCA situation
01:08:38 Destiny loves how petty CGP Grey is
01:09:53 Nuking channel narrative is false, you can give uploader option to avoid copyright strike
01:12:44 Destiny was an OG react content hater
01:14:45 MadSeasonShow's proof against react channels
01:15:46 Destiny talks to Mauler
01:47:53 Aba drags Mutahar into stream
02:04:17 Will there be backlash against streamers that DMCA?
#destiny
#politics
#debate
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Are Reactions Harming Channels? (INTRO VIDEO)
►ruclips.net/video/ATvQ8amYmlY/видео.html
Look into the super mega shit
Lolol you seem surprised that men are becoming completely unhinged and just losing their chit online.
Depends on how the reaction is done. Some of them do, some of them don't. But the glorious leader (peace be upon him) decided that it is heresy to have a slight disagreement with him on one small niche issue. So he took a massive shit on his own principles-- I mean nothing happened Bing Chilling!
@@WordUser what's this man's email. I must hear his opinion on. This shiz
If they upload their reaction to RUclips like XQC maybe? Depends
Biggest thing I hate is when reaction channels don’t link the original video or give original credit. It’s really scummy
Yeah that’s the least you can do. And you should probably do it on screen
Probably more lazy than anything.
Depends on the content. There were a lot of political reaction channels that linked videos of people saying dumb stuff then they screamed about harassment but then they scream about not getting credit then they stopped linking them. There really is no winning in some situations. As for lets say an internet historian video there is no reason not to link his channel.
Also these charts they are linking to show their views went down are dumb. They need to look at the channel views because when Asmondgold watched an internet historian video I didn't go and immediately watch it again on his channel i watched every other one of his videos. He was a streamer I didn't know of I wouldn't know of and I would of never watched his content if Asmond didn't first. Then I watched 30 of his videos.
@@molkereis8626well at that point you have a line between reaction and response videos. There is no excuse not to have a link in a reaction, and damn near most of the time you should have it anyway in a response
@@molkereis8626yea usually that's because they get hate but in general when your reacting to content and not have a negative opinion on it then the least these lazy fucks can do is link the video lol.
Hasan's chair won this debate.
"It's time for the top of the hour 30 minute ad break.." Hassan (probably)
TRUEEE
Jokes aside, Hasan's reactions are always 3x the length of the original video, meaning he's pausing non-stop to talk about what just happened in the video (reacting). He puts so much more time into reacting than other streamers (like xqc). It gets annoying sometimes and I actually go find the original video because I can't take that much commentary
What was that guy doing with his right hand
@@profess0r513I’ve watched some in 2021-22 and a lot of the extra time was him being one guyed
My favourite argument is-
The streamers stream for like 10 hours a day and they need some filler in between.
Like nobody is forcing you to stream for 10 effing hours.
But what about their free money farming 🥺
some streamers do have contracts on how long they have to stream for
@@korglewhich they voluntarily signed, yes
Any and every streamer will counter with the "you are incentivised to stream more" argument. What needs to happen is the streamers just need to NOT upload the reaction
Also as if it's anybody else's problem but the streamer's. It's actually a pathetic mentality.
Mauler and Aba being in the same call is such a wild crossover
ikr
Facts a great crossover
I feel like Destiny's stream is one of the few places where we get crazy crossovers on like a semi regular basis
It helps that a lot of youtubers watch Destiny content sometimes since it covers a wheelhouse of content created for older audiences, which covers RUclipsrs.
@@KamiAnimeS1kinda pointless they do completely different content
If a streamers reaction to getting DMCA’d is “yeah I probably deserved that”, they knew in the back of their mind that they didn’t do enough to transform the content. XQC deserves the criticism, streamers put the burden of claiming or sending takedown notices on the creators so that they don’t have to adopt better practices and they can navigate in the most monetarily beneficial way possible.
That's the craziest part isn't it. X pretty much admits he's in the wrong and pretty much agrees that he's stealing people's work, but his excuse is that copyright laws are ambiguous, so he can get around it. As far as I know, he never makes a single defense that what he's doing isn't thievery.
They don't understand that most youtubers hate the DMCA system, the amount of times I've seen them talk about having to cut a 2 hours video in 2 minutes stretchs to understand what's the problem with the DMCA detection on youtube so that they can remove it, only to receive a green light, upload it, and have youtube flag their video anyway. So they probably would never want to use that system, even if they're right
it's so much easier to do the right thing and not play someone else's video if you're not going to transform it, just take some copyright free content that's made to fill the gap in the boring parts of your stream and play that
@@igorpedro8995 If react content creators cause a new detect copyright system to be implemented because they exploited react content too much, that's on nobody but them. There clearly needs to be a solution when the people in the wrong don't give a shit and won't change on their own. It's why these things happen. And yes, these systems do suck and we would be better off without them, but it's a product of their own doing when it inevitably does happen.
@@F34RDSoldier805Is there any proof react content hurts the original content ? The guy in the first 5 min explained this pretty nicely.
@@lemni4799 Explained it with no proof. I get so many reaction videos recommended by these streamers I don't even care for. You have to understand how recommendations on RUclips work and then spew this bs that it doesn't hurt original creators.
I think if the person reacting just engages with the content, then it’s not a problem. When they’re eating or going to the bathroom, it’s just filler for their stream and helps no one
Yupp and also i think they shouldn't post these stuff on RUclips also.
Yes. Want a good example of how it should be done. Watch Asmongold's content. When he watches a 19 min video, he usually turns it into a 40 min video and after he finishes reacting, he spams the person's video link in his chat. But the thing is, streamers are to lazy to do the bear minimum and link the video in their chat alone. X for example. People have told him many times, post link in chat, and he gets visually annoyed and throws a small hussy fit at the notion that would take 5 seconds to put the link in chat. It's actually pathetic. If all reactors were like Asmon with his reacts, nobody would be complaining. There is a reason nobody is complaining about Asmon after all.
@@F34RDSoldier805 can you give the name of "x"
Casual Willy mac W
@@deepakkc555 xQc
Nothing says you’re confident about your position like banning everyone who disagrees.
Nah man it's cause "THEY ACT LIKE PEOPLE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF" (they are)
@@UkiyoIkouhow lmao
does he ban "everyone who disagrees" or people that make stupid points?
he literally did a banwave banning everyone that disagreed with him@@elimousseau4557
@@elimousseau4557everyone who disagrees
Destiny: "Where are the legions of RUclipsrs complaining about this"
Also Destiny: "Why are 3 youtubers talking to me simultaneously about this issue that two other youtubers started discourse on"
man 5 whole people, remind me how many more youtubers there are and oh i wonder are their any youtubers that thinks react is fine, or maybe even good, i do wonder.
@@CoreStarterI also wonder how many thinks its fine, why dont you get that info?
@CoreStarter I wonder how many don't think it's right to do so. This game can go forever the main point being a bunch of people are ok with it but there's also many that aren't.
@@CoreStarter Why does it matter that some people are OK with someone using their IP without permission if others are not? If the reaction doesn't meet fair use, (many of them do not) then the number of people complaining is really a moot point. The law does not care at all about how most copyright owners react if a plaintiff brings a clear case of copyright infringement.
@@jakej2680the law of copyright is at the discretion of the person whose copyright is being infringed about if the so called injured party isnt being harmed or isnt filing a suit against him you cant just say the law is being broken because that law works when the injured party comes forward.
The funniest thing is that Hasan and Destiny all agree that they shouldnt watch peoples youtube content on stream without permission. They just dont want it to impact them so they say "oh the youtuber needs to contact me and I wont do it again"
na hasan and destiny assume that most people like/want/don't care for reacts to their stuff (this is demonstrably true), if someone put up a banner or something on their vids saying DO NOT REACT then neither of them would react to such a channel. and if it were proven that most people DONT want reacts or if their own assumption became this then they wouldnt react to anything without explicit permission. Think of it like guys who dont harass women cause they assume women dont want that vs guys who harass women because they assume women want that
@@swiggersyolo5748 If you are in the react community, obviously people are going to be reacting to each other so it's all good (although Hasan said he'd strike people who make him look bad). That doesn't have much to do with reactors reacting to long form content.
@@michaelh878 whether it has anything to do with reactors reacting to long form content is obviously not clearly established and changes nothing about their inherent assumptions, i agree the best possible scenario is for everybody watching the stream to click a link to the 2 hour video and lower the volume while they watch the react with the og video on in the background but that is not something that will ever happen. easiest solution is to create opt-in/out checkbox for people. also not sure wtf hasan striking retards has to do with anything but good for him
They constantly talk about a variety of things that "should" happen.
Streamers should compensate the creators of videos they use on stream! They should make sure they have permission! But when you ask them if they would start doing that, the excuses start getting rolled out. XQC literally wanted RUclips to invent a proprietary tool to put a "timer" on RUclips uploads that blocks reactions. Destiny said he'd like a tool that lets you easily send a creator a donation for their video, instead of going through the trouble of asking for their paypal info. Like, how about you just don't fucking steal it? How come people have to make new avenues to not only permit you to continue stealing, but also steal with the least possible friction?
@@ImortalZeus13 what do you mean by ''steal'', if i make a video talking about how the earth is flat and globeheads are pedophiles does somebody need my permission to react to the video? must i be compensated? keep in mind if they dont ''react adequately'' i could certainly copystrike them regardless for ''stealing content'' or ''not transforming it''
Destiny perma-banning people that disagree with him is kind of childish behavior imo. React streamers stealing content is a debate topic and if you don’t agree with someone on the other side of a debate why ban them instead of explaining why they are on the wrong side?
He knows on some level that he's wrong.
@@Voltrocwhere is he wrong?
sad thing is that before his lefty ark he was saying he is proud his community is not a circlejerk and he likes criticism he gets on his subreddit. When the lefty drama happened he suddenly changed his tune because half of his subreddit started to criticize him and he didn't want to deal with it like before so instead he changed his stance to "Do you just ban people who disagree with you when you feel its not warranted? YES! CHADFACE.jpg"
Now he bans anyone who doesn't bend backwards to not accidentally trigger him with the justification that he will unban you very easily too.
The whole culture on the subreddit changed, even the meme " o7" and pls no ban under even slightly critical posts speaks to how easily triggered he gets.
Shit like that used to only happen during league streams.
@@Voltrocwhere is he wrong? I’ve seem most of the arguments people have been making and all of them are stupid asf
@@Voltroc Please point out where he is wrong. I can point out why he bans people easily though. Everyone who is banned tries to impose their emotional arguments to Destiny as fact or be bad faith intentionally.
Mauler was clearly right and did a much better job than most at discussing this.
Agreed
@@HALF_DAY facts
@@HALF_DAYhe is very practiced at this convo
Longman good
What was he right about? He barely had a strong position on it.
One of the topics I actually feel destiny is wrong on but he's so confident in his own beliefs, good luck getting him to budge
Everyone draws the line right below where they stand.
Cope.
I think he did pretty well with fleshing out his reasoning throughout the video.
Like most people using ad blockers hurt the creators more than large creators using other people's content and not being transformative enough.
And that the outrage shouldn't be as big as it is etc
@@BlueEyesWhitePrivilege That's such a good phrase
@@BlueEyesWhitePrivilege Obviously. If you think what your doing is ok then your going to do it. It's basic logic.
I don't think enough weight has been given to the argument that if a youtuber DMCAs a streamer, especially a popular one, there can be grave consequences. Sure, they most likely WILL get that person to stop reacting to their content. HOWEVER, I think it's fair to say that even when that happens that streamer can go hard on Twitter and say something like:
"Wow really? I just thought your video was good and wanted to share it with MY audience. I can't believe you DMCA'd me over this like a bitch! Don't worry, I'll never react to any of your content again, all you had to do was ASK."
And then most likely that streamer's audience and a bunch of other people will drag the youtuber and his channel through the mud
100%, the pressure that a big streamer and their audiance can give to a small creator is a massive dmca deterrent, i don't know how Destiny is unable recognize that
@@justaamateur6533 He's probably blinded by his own perspective. Destiny has been in so many dramas and cancellation attempts that something like this wouldn't matter much to him, he would just probably let it die down. Also DGG is pretty militarized as well so if anyone comes looking for a fight Destiny's fanbase would put up quite a resistance.
That is not the case with the average streamer/youtube content creator. Most just put out their stuff not expecting a considerable response and thus don't react well to controversy or drama involving themselves.
Moreover, you probably DMCA one of their re-upload channels and not even their main channel. This means there are no repercussions to the streamer. They have dozens of those channels and they can restart them as and when they want because you will run out of DMCA budget and not their mindless wealth.
@@justaamateur6533yes, very small youtuber Lemino will have a really rough go of it 🙄
@@shyamsingla716 if you are worried to claim a wrong channel, file a DMCA against the person, they have contact info after all, this isn't the big take you think it is, RUclips/twitch literally has to respond to DMCA since if they don't and they lose in court, they can have their safe harbor protection revoked
Destiny in medieval Europe be like :
“If there is so much exploitation then why is there not a revolution ? Clearly there’s nothing wrong with having a monarchy”
What a way to not listen to the argument at all. With your shitty example there is obviously not a guarantee that things work out, whereas a DMCA claim will 100% give you a result in a couple of minutes. I don't get these fkin analogies...
“If so many people are unhappy with the king, why don’t they just speak up” 😂❤
i mean there were many peasant revolutions when their land owners exploited them, that was a lot of the 14th century in france
Even if I don't agree with Destiny take, it's a bad analogy. Why exploited people aren't just revolting? Because they would die, it's that simple. Kings had armies to protect themselves from bunch of peasants so abolishing authority was always bloody path and you are likely to die for that.
Going the DMCA route you can have individual impact by just copystrike the fuck out of streamers who react to your content and you can have probably massive impact by combining this effort with other youtubers. Since DMCA strike doesn't take a lot of time to make why wouldn't they do it? Copyright laws exists and DMCA is there to protect you. You are in the right here so just enforce it using this tools. If enough youtubers made effort to use those tools then maybe reacting would be less of a gray area and was clearly banned.
Idk it makes sense to me to DMCA streamers. Rather than making tons of videos how unethical it is to steal views just fight them directly since you have tools to do it. If you have legal rights to something wouldn't you just sue someone if it was piss easy to achieve?
@@Harevald
1)Some creators are idiots who believe in “Pay in exposure”…
2)The creators who do take action such as CGP Grey get shit from Destiny and have their reputation ruined…
Lemmino: works 12 months on one video
Destiny: “A small amount of work”
From the way he speaks he is probably just disconnected from this issue. The problem with non-transformative content isn’t the “view stealing” because of a lack of reaction, it’s because they often rip content without credit or even crop usernames out.
Where do you draw the line then? 1 second? 1 minute? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year?
That's why he said a small amount, because it's a 1 hour video spread over a year.
He probably doesn't know how much research Lemmino did for that video.
He's talking about the react streamers not the original creator.
@@driftstratus I feel like when we say "make money *off of* something" we are referring to another source we are making money off of not ourselves, so that's how I read that.
Huh
It's funny to me that Destiny is caught on the same side of the shitstorm as Hasan, I think the fact that he has to implicity defend Hasan while defending himself is like 50% of the reason he is so mad about this lol.
Defending Hasan is enough to make any rational person upset.
Destiny the KING of hyperbolic overreactions telling other people they are overreacting about something. A classic.
well he would know then, no?
@@leoyoman no because In this same stream he sperged out a few times about random shit that doesn’t matter. He just has a huge blind spot or he knows and doesn’t care.
@@55ibman oh, i thought both of us were being sarcastic.
It appears quite clear to me that his overreactions are memes.
@@leoyoman yeah bro every time he gets mad it’s just a meme. It’s definitely why he can’t hold on to friends in the streamer space and it definitely does not reflect on his behavior at all.
@@55ibman you are kinda proving my point, a lot of people dont get how he thinks and it makes it hard for him to keep friends. You are of course the expert
7:00 isn't that precisely what DarkViperAUs original point was? You can make from scratch like 1 high quality vid per month. But you can react to 10 a day. So your channel gets way way way more impressions if you just react. If you want to play youtube meta, why even create anything?
The easiest thing to do is have a streamer ask for permission. In every other industry artists get paid when their content gets used to generate money for another party.
@iaqh that's irrelevant to my argument. He is still making money off content that does not meet the criteria of fair use.
@@iaqhThat’s irrelevant and holds no merit whatsoever. Let’s say most of his viewers do watch his videos for his personality for arguments sake though. If that’s the case then what detriment does him simply not reacting to a video or simply asking permission to stream it cause him?
Also saying it benefits the creator more because “he’s doing it for free” as if he’s doing it out of the kindness of his heart and not because of a lack of creativity is insane.
It would be cool if RUclips would add a feature so that when you upload a video, you could choose whether or not you want to allow people to use the content on their own channel. If you do, the react channels are also able to select that they used content from another video and tag which one. THEN make the ad view count be split between the two channels so that the original content creator is getting compensation as well.
@@user-jt6rh8xy6nJust because it could benefit the creator doesn't mean it's 'out of the kindness of his heart'
I know destiny is a react streamer but I didn’t expect him to be this bias and make these dog shit arguments. Most of them can just be turned around and used against him. For example he brings up exposure actually being a good and sometimes preferable form of payments and then 15 min later goes on to say consumers are unlikely to switch platforms and how they’re behaviours are different. So then exposure means nothing? If someone isn’t likely to jump from twitch to go watch a RUclipsr than his whole exposure argument is null.
Why do you think destiny has all these dogshit arguments yet he was in a room with 3 pretty intelligent content creators and they couldn’t call him out on them?
Is unlikely and never the same? The rate of conversion can be low and still useful. I mean Destiny has probably put himself in front of millions of people over the last year and he “only” gained 300K subs? 300K subs is massive. Also no even if someone doesn’t completely switch platforms that doesn’t mean they don’t watch videos from another platform. I watch YT, sometimes I’ll also watch twitch if something interesting is happening, but mostly YT.
@@daviddavidson6278 did I say never? He was the one who said exposure can be preferable to monetary compensation. But who who would want the exposure if the fans are unlikely to go check out their stuff? Doesn’t make any sense.
@@TwilightCovenant If its just unlikely then its fine as people are unlikely to watch your content if the streamer didn't watch it. Again, Destiny has gained 300K subs from "unlikely" conversion, but that doesn't mean exposure can just be disregarded.
@@daviddavidson6278 When did Destiny ever gain "300K" subs from an "unlikely" conversion. It's literally just organic growth from his youtube channel. Destiny has 11 million monthly views, while Mutahar has only 15 million despite having over double the subscribers. His channel has blown up from his content being recommended to people on youtube not "exposure." Exposure from reaction content has literally proven not to work in any significant capacity. Those three people did call him out, but destiny has severe belief perseverance. Destiny established a strong stance at the beginning whilst not having done any research. He shifted the argument that creators should just DMCA, when the last creator to do so had lost tens of thousands of subscribers for doing so. Big creators should just not react to entire videos on stream, including him.
@@venerables Destiny gained those 300K subs by going on dozens of redpill shows and dozens of podcast. He was viewed by millions of people and he only got 300K, is that 300K supposed to be insignificant now? Should he regret going on all those shows for free, being paid in just "exposure"? 75% growth in 1.5 years is just organic growth? I don't think the YT algorithm is that good, but lets just say that 100K subs came from organic growth, that means he only got 200K from going on those shows. Should he regret going on all those shows?
When did he shift the argument that creators should DMCA? It seems like what was covered was that DMCAing is super easy to do and heavily biased towards the DMCAer. Which last creator are you talking about? Is this another Alinity situation? Or are you talking about CGPGrey who got a terrifying 1.3K twitter post, but still majority support?
Again we're at the argument he gave at the beginning, if creators don't like big streamers watching their content why don't they DMCA? Its because creators have access to their view analytics and recognize the great help streamers are in their channel. Why do you think all the people complaining are third parties and not the creators themselves?
Well guys, if it's not affecting you directly you aren't allowed to care
Hurray! Trans rights, Ukraine, abortion, it's all gone now! Thanks, Destiny!
He's saying that it's weird to complain about something that the creators who are suffering from this aren't complaining about.
Like he said, where are the many smal creators that are DMCAing larger creators? If the victims of this "stolen content" aren't making a big fuss about it why make any of it at all? But you're tryna be all bad faith
@@tecategpt1959 so you're saying there is a victim. You know that the state still prosecutes perp even if the victim is ok with what happened.
Or are you saying that if the victim says it's cool, then it's ok to do bad things to them and other people shouldn't care?
@@tecategpt1959The problem with asking "why dont the small channels just dmca", is that you're ignoring the fact that small channels can get a ton of shit from the audiance of a big reaction streamer, which can scare the og creator from using dmca.
It's similar to how video game companies have quietly agreed to not dmca lets plays and streams of their games in fear of getting shit from the audiance of the creator whose lets play they took down
@@justaamateur6533 and so like destiny said, if that's really a problem, why nor try contacting the streamer and tell them that they need to PayPal them a 50 to watch the video.
Or tell them that they can't watch any of their videos anymore. Then threaten them with DMCA.
Sorry, Destiny but it's my first time disagreeing with you. People like to pretend to not be affected because if they do DMCA, even a channel that's bigger than them. We already know what happened before. Some smaller content creator tried, and that big creator they DMCA'd sent their rabid fanboys to harass them 24/7.
Keep making things up and pretending that's a good argument for anything.
Reactions are not stealing views unless it's Asmongold or xQc uploading a reaction to a video that just dropped hours ago. There is no real argument to be had, you're lost.
@@DogshitArgument and you haven't presented any logical argument either so don't pretend like you are correct.
@@DogshitArgumentit's stealing content though. Point blank period.
@@DogshitArgumentHow am I making things up? A certain former WoW streamer did this to a small creator, and had his rabid fanbase attack whoever threw that DMCA strike. Now that video is still up there just to spite the victim. Small creators are mad but cant do anything about it, because of the size of the creator they wanna sue and the unjust consequences they will sow.
Edit: I wouldnt say direct attack, but you know how fanbases are. They would do anything for their favourite streamer even attack anyone who sais otherwise without their consent.
You must be new if this is the first thing you're disagreeing with 😂
31:40 I feel like Destiny really underestimates the type of backlash/harassment a small creator could receive from someone like xQc's audience. 🤔
Even if Hasan or xQc never go after a person for making a DMCA, there's still a decent chance that rabid fanbases could find out and attack the creator anyway.
You'd be surprised how much small creators get defended if a big channels fans go after them i.e. Dream.
@@johnark4723that defense doesn’t mean much against the bigger fan base though
I feel like you really overestimate the amount of juicers who would do that. It's basically taboo to do that in xQc's community, and he's made it a point that anyone who chat-hops is shamed
@@sumicmusic it doesn’t really matter. People are still going to do it, and most streamers don’t go through near that amount of effort to stop it
You know you're off to a good faith start when destiny says people would be equally angry at react streamers as they would be if they found out the Clintons raped fifty kids
He is right. People already either think they did or would defend them no matter what the evidence is.
@@michaelh878 there's a massive difference between those two things and he's drawing the comparison specifically to poison the well, followed up by calling them unhinged.
Not to mention he's using the most extreme actors to paint everyone with
I do think the comparison Destiny made at the star, was a crappy comparison. It's only purpose was to say that he feels people are overacting.
But I also think trying to make a terrible comparison to say people on one side are over reacting, is different than hyping an individual to be a bad character, then presents their argument. I personally find the later more deplorable, but both could change for the better.
Realistically, there are a lot of problems between how the communities of each socially media platform interact with each other. And I think this particular discussion is happening again once more, since Twitch has been in hot water for decisions the last few months, and some major YT copystriked some of them within the last few weeks...
Overall, I kind of hate the good faith, bad faith discussion since it removes the intricacies of the topic to simplify talking points.
Stay positive yall
His point was that people on Twitter are so up their own asses that the reaction to this basically non-issue is almost as large as it would be to some major world news. You don't have to take what he was saying 100% literally, it was a slightly hyperbolic example to illustrate a point.
Destiny's take away is that if you are not affected by it you shouldnt care
Okay.. But.. you can still criticize something even if it doesn’t effect you directly..
@@ThySheepie agree 💯
@@ThySheepiethat's why it's stupid. It's not even an argument, it's just a logical fallacy
So you just didn't watch the video then😂
"Unbelievably minor issue" - Reactions to this issue: Bobfilms makes a tweet, Destiny makes a 2 hour video about it. Who is really over reacting
Why would I watch the original video if I already seen someone react to it? That would be a waste of my time
For real, the new take has been "Me personally, I'll watch the reaction then want to watch the original video." Which is either 🧢, or they are like 13 year olds saying it
@@albypls901if i see a reaction to something i watch the video first then the reaction so i can see the person’s thoughts on it
Honestly this is a major Destiny L. It'd be better if Destiny admits he has a horse in the race and bites the bullet. Also, i find it hard to believe Destiny is approaching in good faith when he starts the segment with tackling the worst arguments from the anti-react side (opposite of steelman but not strawman).
Unlike dark viper who started his video in the goodest of the faiths
@@suryapratapsinghraghav640except it is fucking Twitter! I don't think destiny isn't nuanced on Twitter I don't think MOST people are.
@@Musaxen literally every tweet he drops man, i think a perfect example would be one of his spousal abuse takes. Sounds dumb as fuck. Baits a women on to destroy her with some reasoning.
@@mikemills326Fair point but Destiny's twitter takes weren't exactly good faith or quality either. Plus its a meme in the community that Destiny often backtracks and moderates Twitter takes on stream after pushback 😂
@@Musaxenevery day
Started of by assuming that everybody who had an issue was a unhinged psychopath, you immeditaly started banning rows of people calling them stupid and your defense was complete and other dog shit with phrases like 'why dont they just dmca' 'there is no evidence react content diminishes the original creators view count' and 'it is just such a minor issue' i'm actually proud to see most of ddg realized how incredible unfair you where being, almost like watching hassan abi
And this is comming from the guy who is "pro free speech" and who claims to have no insecurities.
W destiny
The fact that you think him saying that "there is no evidence" is a dogshit phrase proves how incredibly braindead you are. Idk how you compare destiny to hasan when evidence literally doesn't matter to you. You're closer to hasan than destiny will ever be.
@@KingHalikDid you just compare free speech to getting a ban on someones subreddit?
I'm hoping you're joking.
@@RealFreedomMGhe’s not, I don’t even know why he bought “insecurities” into this either. Seems to be big mad at our glorious leader, should probably be lined up against the wall imo.
Please don't burn Mutabridge
if its gotta go its gotta go no exceptions
Agreed 😢
@@warguy6474buwn it down, down to the gwound
Never underestimate Stevens ability to be petty
@@jimmojam7211 we dont make exceptions for friends here
Eager to see what kind of cognitive dissonance Destiny takes for this; he's absolutely one of those no effort "react" streamers half the time.
The other half is great reacting like this vid.
Half the time I joined his stream is typing "BORING" cause he is playing autism 2 world tree creator
Destiny has the most boring reactions and has the nerve to call himself entertaining and funny.
I don’t watch his stream for eight hours of the day, but that is just not true from what I’ve seen. Usually he is reacting to a video with some about politics or ongoing drama, and he can provide some amount of commentary. I’ve only ever seen him silent when he is sent some stupid shit on Twitter that he doesn’t care about, and that is a minority of the time.
You weren't here for the Factorio Arc.
Geez, this is the worst take from Steven, it almost feels like a totally different person. I'm shocked at his level of bad faith on this, and I think he knows he's in the wrong based on how defensive he's getting
I'm not on twitter so maybe the reaction is really as crazy as he said, but I cannot get over the fact that people constantly ignore the fact that this is clear copyright infringement in many cases. It is just absurd to ignore the fact that people have a legitimate reason to be upset over their IP being stolen, *regardless* of the effect it has on views or subs or whatever. I'm not sure what his opinion is on IP as a concept, maybe he just doesn't believe in copyright? That's the only way I personally could rationalize it.
Yea thats what happens when your livelihood gets threatened because you’ve built a part of it in extremely bad faith
@@Flapjack3734 "something something can't convince someone when he gets paid to do not that thing" - whatever asshole wrote _The_ _Jungle_
rip on all the redditors that were banned
Nothing of value was lost luckily.
Who and when
o7
Why would they be banned?
@@Yuh_mamabecause of dumb comments
Viper is clearly in the right here. Relying on ad hominem rather than refuting viper's claims is classic destiny.
I love watching grown ass men whinge about why it should be okay to steal other people's content.
As long as you meet the criteria for fair use under copyright law, it isn't theft.
@@nickchivers9029
Which it doesn't.
Streamers are lucky the youtubers they steal from don't have the money to afford lawyers.
@@billieeisenhower406 dmca them then lol
what are they stealing exactly?
@@epic7608 pretty much there content without adding any input.
And the more people telling him he’s wrong, the more confident he gets.
I love this about destiny so much
That's the dumb ass recipe isn't it? My mother in-law loves that one
Double-Downstiny
Conflict is money to tiny, every time someone tells him he is wrong he just hears the cash register.
Darkviper or Destiny
D is clearly in the wrong here.
The only way he's wrong is if somebody gives concrete evidence that reaction videos are cannibalizing the viewership from the og videos.
@@nighthawk2548but people don't need evidence, it sounds good to them so that's evidence enough, seems like a new really easy way to tell who has a functional brain.
@@nighthawk2548it's stealing and it's not protected under copyright. If walking into Wal-Mart in San Francisco and taking products is bad free booting someone else's created content is also bad.
@@nighthawk2548prove to me that me stealing from the target in the nice neighborhood that experiences almost 0 theft is bad.
Then once you prove that, prove that no one who watches reaction streams would have ever watched the original video without the stream.
@@nighthawk2548not Just the OG video's but evers original content on the site are effected. Just read all 14 pages of the essay (the last part is an i side joke)
I STILL have heard no reason why react streamers stealing content is fair and should be allowed. Or even why it's not stealing at all. All react streamers seem to not even go against the notion that it is, in fact, stealing content. All that is made off of that fact is "but...." arguments. The only things that should ever be asked is, "is this stealing content" if yes then it should be "do i have permission to react to this content". It should stop there. These streamers seem to justify stealing in so many ways it's just so weird and out of touch. There is just no consideration for who they're taking from. Just the fact that they are using other's hard work for money or even to grow their own brand in the way they do is just weird in itself. Of course that is completely ok if they have permission or the content creator doesn't care. But the excuses or justifications i hear are just so eye rolly. Like the one i hear from Ludwig, "streamers have to stream for 8 to 10 hours, so they need way to fill that gap somehow". But how does that justify stealing other people's work and why should that be anyone else's problem but the streamer's? Streamers want to have it so easy... But again, i haven't heard a genuine or good reason why stealing other people's hard work for themselves is ok. Not one good reason.
When someone makes a claim, they have to support that claim. The reason react streamers don't have the obligation to "explain why it's not X" is because no one's substantiated the claim that it is "X". Any creator that's bothered by this and feel their work is being stolen and their channels being harmed can just DMCA and anyone outside of that creator claiming it needs to substantiate it. Otherwise, it's nothing but useless virtue signaling.
Fair use policy should answer your question.
@@damedusa5107literally
They're basically saying "I'm famous so I should be allowed to steal shirts. I'm repping the brand after all."
Is piracy stealing?
I lost a lot of respect for Destiny after he went on a babyrage and banned like half of his subreddit and long time viewers as well as followers for lightly disagreeing with him on THIS SINGLE ISSUE! Even the poeple who asked clarifying questions weren't spared!
Also what about the "If they aren't complaining hard and loud enough for me, then you are wrong to try to help them" claim? Like for kind of argument is even that?! How could you even utter those words as a self proclaimed women's and trans right's activist?
Would you be a bad person in an alternate world for advocating for women's rights if all women were turned into birthing-slaves and none of them complained? They didn't protest loud enough so screw you for trying to help them I guess!
His subreddit is insane. All that is left is people that agree with him on nearly every issue.
He does this while claiming that his subreddit is a safespace and that he is not insicure.
That he tries his best to steelman his opposition and is against unreasonable censorship.
What afucking joke!
@@user-eg5yy7vs9s He did break his own principles hard on this one. By the looks off it it was due to him becoming too emotionally invested since he himself engaged in this kind of iffy behaviour!
Nah fr tho, even the most harmless question gets you being called retarded and getting banned.
Destiny ignores the main argument of importance.
If Asmongold is soaking up a boat load of impressions with low quality react content (which is legally stealing in most cases), not only would those impressions have gona to someone else (not necessarily the video being reacted to, which is fine), but also Asmongold gets to become a curator of the greatest hits of RUclips, greatly outpacing the workload of an honest creator.
The ones that are most hurt by react content are actually not the ones being reacted to, those people usually receive a (usually super) small benefit, which is why it's against their immediate interest to DMCA. The ones most hurt are the ones NOT being reacted to. They're getting impressions and opportunities taken away by reactors. This is why reaction content is a net negative for YT and hurts the integrity of the platform.
Just because you cant prove theres a relationship between a reactor getting the view instead of the video that they're reacting to, doesnt mean that the viewer wouldn't become a consumer of some other kind of content. Even if they just go and read a book instead, they'll eventually finish that book and buy another book. They'll (likely) become consumers of ethically created content instead.
There is literally no moral or legal difference between reacting to 90 day fiancée and some random dudes YT content.
So they curate good content and people are happy, but you're not because you think somehow this is harming anyone/everyone?
Who is being harmed, name the harm. Stop vaguely alluding to "well there is like, they could be watching other stuff!" because this is incredibly weak. I can't imagine claiming this is the main argument you're mad Destiny isn't addressing, how lost in the sauce must you be?
90% or more of the xQc or Asmon viewers are just gonna watch them play games, if that's all there was. You're crazy if you believe otherwise.
Interesting views from both comments above.
I am conflicted on this one since I feel like the issue is that if both sides could compensated for the action of reaction content, none of this discussion would matter.
But their is no system in play that benefits both parties.
FeelsBadMan
EDIT:
I also think that their is the opposite effect where sometimes I watch a RUclips video, and want another opinion on it, so I seek a reaction video on it.
@@DogshitArgumentstealing content and labour is theft. That's the issue and it does not benefit the platform of Content Creators nor the original channel, especially if it's re-upload by the Reactor or Fans of the Reactor.
@@TapDat52K You could still do response vids. Those are fair use. When we talk about reaction content we're specifically talking about the "stream dump" style:
First ever viewings, little to offer or add to the content, non scripted, no knowledge on what is going to be said in the video, with the reactor often figuring out their take on the content in real time while watching with their audience. People often mention the length of the reaction, but to me, that doesn't matter, Asmongold rambles, ALOT. He can double the length of a video while offering almost nothing new to the conversation. I think he believes this somehow makes it ok, or masks what he does, but it really doesn't.
There are some notable exceptions, like if the video is about you. If DSP wants to react to detractor content, he should be able to in any format he wants imo. But that would ofc make it tricky for YT to make a system wide change to prevent this stuff if they allowed for that.
@@ProxiProtogen look at his name bro, he's doing some sort of LARP where he's intentionally making bad arguments, that's the point.
My problem is that it's unfair for people to put time and labour into making content, only to have streamers watch it and reap benefit while doing no work. It's parasitism to the highest degree, and Destiny is among the worst of them.
Don't know if he's the worst as most of the stuff he reacts to isnt long form content but no effort panels and interviews and people's reactions to other low effort stuff.
what benefits
@@epic7608 money
@@epic7608not having to do stuff to entertain their audience.
It's like those parents that give the child an iPad and f off so they don't have to take care of their duties.
@@albinopenguin2520 I don't find xqc entertaining, but I would be a fool to say he isn't, he clearly has built an audience that watch him religiously.
I love how Destiny can’t even face admitting that reaction streams are effortless, he call them ‘relatively low effort’ just own it and admit its the easiest, laziest form of content in the business
Nah, there's always easier things to do, filming a cat video is way easier.
Reaction videos require so much editing sometimes, to knock off copyright
It's actually hard to keep that many thousands entertained for 10 hours a day. At a certain point you run out of things to say
@@kinghassy334yeah and when that happens you stop streaming. You don’t get to just keep making money off other people’s work because you’re tired.
yeah it's like people are forcing you to stream 10 hours a day.
@@muninnsays9296 If you're tired you can just "react" to other peoples videos and still make money.
Im amazed that even when presented with obvious immorality, Destiny couldnt be pushed by MauLer to admit it was wrong. I figured thisbwas a non issue for most.
Sometimes he reasons his positions and acts accordingly, but more often lately he acts and then reasons backwards to defend that no matter what he actually says about his principles.
@@DudokX Yeah, he's usually pretty good about that.
I figured this issue was a no brainier, which is why I was surprised at him using the standard bad faith arguments streamers use.
Not to mention his overreaction in banning people pushing back on him.
He did admit that it's wrong though.
there are many wrongs in this world, some of them are acceptable and i personally think this is one of them, no one is stealing anything its just people getting mad that streamers get free content
@@st0nks309 "No one is stealing anything" then where is this "free content" coming from genius. It's stealing, and quite obviously illegal which is why Destiny changed his position.
This is literally the path towards creating new broadcasting rights.
It’s overdue imo, but if I had to guess it’ll be like this for a looooong time. YTers are incentivized to protect their content the same way a movie studio is… but a large group of individuals will always be less organized and focused than a corporation. A company like Disney is an economic machine design to hold and protect IP, and get the lobbying done to make that happen.. very unlike the disorganized set of YTers.
@@eeyun5279fr
@@eeyun5279the thing is react content generally helps you tubers. If u use tiktok at all this is abundantly clear and that's with straight up rips, no transformation. I think the only argument u cud make is uploading some1 stream b4 that particular segment of content is uploaded on the original creators channel
IMO these issues are already clearly covered by current copyright law, but the problem is that the "correct" avenue to resolve them (the justice system) is far too difficult and expensive of a method for almost everyone with a claim. This is really a wider problem with the justice system in general, and especially with new developments on the internet that it just can't keep up with.
It actually frustrates me how you almost never hear people discuss the actual legality of reactions, because they are often so obviously IP theft and many of these cases would be very simple wins for the plaintiffs if actually brought to court. So ultimately the situation is that we have streamers stealing from creators and, unintentionally or not, exploiting their own wealth and influence to discourage them from pursuing justified legal action.
Obviously not every react is IP theft, some streamers do try in good faith to work with creators, and some of the blame is also on the nature of the justice system. I can certainly understand that streamers see this as an out-of-nowhere attack on something that has been common practice for a long time, and is even not an issue for many creators. This, however, does not excuse the streamers for grasping at any excuse they can think of to ignore the fact that they are exploiting those with less power in an unjust system.
Sure, you can come up with ways to recompensate creators afterwards, but you are still legally (and IMO morally) on the hook when you don't get prior permission and someone who's copyright you infringed upon is upset about it. The only way to make sure you avoid this is to always get prior permission, which is something that it honestly seems like most streamers view as too onerous to commit to doing.
At the end of the day it's hard not to view this as a group of people who have been (knowingly or not) getting away with something for so long that they are unable to consider the fact that they are objectively guilty.
Went off on a tangent but I kinda hope this doesn't lead to new laws because I'm always apprehensive of these types of regulations. IMO they often lead to more problems than they solve.
@@jakej2680 the issue is usually it's clearly legally wrong but weirdly it benefits the og creator most of the time if it has any impact at all
He secretly wants to play league again so bad, and using a league news guy for the intro just proves his secret nasty desire!
Mauler convos are the best, keep them coming.
Timestamp pliz
@@WL1264check the description m9
HEIL LONGBONG
HEIL TONALD
HEIL THE ALMIGHTY DON
I blame Mauler for my descent into nerd culture after I came across a years-old video in which he perfectly dissected the disaster that was GoT season 8. Then I found Nerdrotic and don't have to watch movies any longer
@@m4anowyeah when Nerdroric doesn’t descend into culture war brainrot (which is very rare) he can be pretty informative.
Longman’s videos are basically movies themselves, having a movie clip for every single thing he says takes so much work you just gotta admire it
React content has always felt really shady to me. React streamers have always kind of reminded me those people, who when they had to do a group research and presentation project for a college class, didn't help or contribute in any way but just showed up on presentation day to read off the powerpoint or note cards someone else made for them and gets an A as well.
I don't know, I do hope something is done about react content, because it does feel kind of shitty knowing that someone might spend weeks or months putting together a pretty awesome video only for some big streamer to play it on their stream, occasionally make a remarke or nod their head and then just make way more money than what the original content creator made.
Could not have used a better word myself then 'shady' it's a perfect description. It's not the worst thing in the world but to act like there is just 0 harm is crazy. Also asking for stats when it's clearly a VERY hard topic to get accurate stats on.
XQC deserves the criticism
Destiny has such a large ego he can’t even see when he’s wrong. What a shame
Why is destiny so confident that adblock is obvious lost revenue when the truth is 80% of the people using adblock would NEVER watch the video if it were plastered with ads? It's the same argument he's making against react content not losing revenue
Facts. I browse Twitch semi casually, but the moment ad-block stops working I stop acessing the site all together. Is terrible having to wait 3 or 4 ads before you even know what the stream is about.
While Destiny's right about a lot of things, on this I'm pretty sure his perspective is tainted by being on the side it kinda screws over, and seeing the "harm" done to content creators in terms of them being offered less for their ads. But no, he's just objectively wrong. The internet would be a hellscape without ad block. We already have to put up with monetization through gacha and subscription on everything up to and including internet routers and televisions.
As soon as he said that shit I knew this whole vid was gonna be full of cognitive dissonance.
destiny used his react andy jujitsu to handle these debates
August is desperately trying to keep his job I see
They had a debate before and DarkviperAU was extremely reasonable. He made the arguments Destiny is making these days. First time in a long time where I think Destiny is simply wrong and clouded in his judgement by his own interest. Possibly because of self preservation. Hope they can have a real discussion like the one in the past
Destiny probably got really mad that Darkviper hardcore poisoned the well for a minute before getting into the arguments ("Destiny is not a good faith actor")
@@LordDungeonMasterBecause he wasn’t a good faith actor in this case - calling out reality is poisoning the well LMAOOOO
Imagine Destiny not being able to react to anything anymore lol.
@@subashirawait what did he do that wasn’t good faith? I actually don’t know lol.
Yet not one point about destiny saying something wrong. Just that "I think" statements regurgitated over and over again, so the idiots can do the "destiny is wrong" ciriclejerk.
Darkviper's thesis on react content years ago, and the examples he brought up in this video were laughably bad. But who cares?
Not the youtube viewers who have been fed "react is bad" shit for so long, they're actually unable to comprehend there being an alternative answer.
It's the responsibility of the "reactor" to gain permission from the original creator before using their work. It's not the responsibility of the creator to "threaten" a DMCA, they're 100% in the clear to go with the biggest nuke ever.
My issue with it personally is that it damages youtube as a platform. If I watch a video from an original creator then the algorithm says "Hey he likes videos like that, I'll find other videos like that" which is normally good, but now I have 7 copies of that video by different react streamers that I now have to avoid.
RUclips will have to crack down on it at some point because that doesn't make me want to stick around and watch more videos and that is what they want... they want you to keep watching so you see more advertisements.
I literally just did the do not recommend this channel option for asmongold and stopped having this problem.
@@Lizard1582yeah no people are just utterly hopeless these days lmao. RUclips gives them ways around it and they fiddle their thumbs like lost children. Either that, or they need some sort of confirmation bias to keep their beliefs.
I dont watch xqc, or hasan, so those react videos don't come up. When the jfk video dropped, it stayed in my recommended feed for a couple days, and I never got anything from react streamers. And if I see one of them pop up, it's an instant "dont recommend channel".
@@Lizard1582 good, I did the same, that doesnt mean they arent stealing, and doesnt mean that they will stop stealing.
This is so unbelievably bad...
Destiny in the late 19th century:
I don't see why women not voting is such a problem, there aren't many women complaining about it
Destiny doesn't make the connection at 43:25 that this is how the market works on RUclips when those reactions are reupload and take up finite impressions on someone's recommended feed. He also ignores the fact that if these react streamers couldn't react to anybody's, or most people's content, they couldn't be live for upwards of 10 hours most days just doing literally nothing, so they would be live less, necessitating those would-be viewers to do something else, and some of those people will go and watch other content creators. The fact that these streamers, or someone in their communities reupload the reactions on RUclips matters because the original content is also on RUclips. So the point Destiny makes about views being different in terms of weight and value across platforms is irrelevant in the discussion of react streamers reacting to RUclips videos.
"necessitating those would-be viewers to do something else, and some of those people will go and watch other content creators."
That last part is what he is contending with. Yes, those viewers may go do something else, but there is absolutely 0 proof that a significant portion of that audience would end up watching a video that XQC would react to. They may go play video games, they may talk with friends on Discord, or they may even clean up their kitchen. I don't know why so many people are making the assumption that every minute an XQC viewer doesn't spend viewing XQC's stream, that's a minute they would have spent viewing another person's content. That's not necessarily true. And even if it was, that doesn't mean they would end up watching whatever video XQC decided not to react to.
That is the thing everyone has failed to proof. And there's also the counter argument that reactions may actually make XQC's audience more aware of certain creators, which could actually help channels gain more subs and viewers in the long run. This isn't as simple as people are trying to make it out to be.
@@Alex_Johnson_ I chose my words very carefully. I fully understand typical viewers of a stream wouldn't watch other content creators in every case. That's why I said some of those people will. And I'm not at all concerned in the direct impact reacting has to a specific video, in terms of that video losing out on more views than it would've gotten otherwise, I am concerned with the greater creator economy as a whole. And if massive multi million viewers channels such as asmongold weren't able to spend 10+ hours a day reacting to other people's hard labor without their express permission beforehand, the regular viewers of those channels on RUclips and twitch would seek alternate media avenues. Even if that means they're watching something like asmongold's non react content. The problem is the absolute Herculean advantage these reactors have over everyone else when they exploit the hard work of hundreds of others without consent to fuel their own greed.
@@jobo1799 Yes, but if these streamers made react content 100% of what they do, but they only streamed for 4 hours a day instead of 10, their viewers also would have more time to go and watch other people content. So the issue here doesn't seem to simply be to react content, but that these streamers stream for long hours and that takes away watch time for other creators? I feel like that's a pretty weak argument. If the argument was that streamers are directly hurting the creators they are reacting to, that's something I would be sympathetic towards if there was actually evidence for it.. But the idea of being mad at streamers basically because they have a lot of viewers while doing really lazy content is something I honestly just don't give a shit about.
@@Alex_Johnson_ the problem isn't that they have massive viewership, or that they make lazy content. It's that their business model requires them to literally exploit the labor of hundreds of others without their consent. It would be the same problem if a smaller streamer also made reaction content, the only difference being the larger ones have a greater impact on the market. These creators are able to cannibalize the market by flooding it with more content that original creators could ever make. It's a two fold issue, they're popular because they can produce so much low effort content that is literally just market substitutes for other people's creative works. It's completely unfair and they know it. There is an inherent badness in the act of reuploading someone else's work without consent for personal gain. And the unfortunate part is the more successful a reactor becomes, the more they are able to react to more people's creative works without consent.
@@Alex_Johnson_ imagine a business owner that operates a perfectly ordinary business, producing t shirts. They are only one person, or they have a team of people working with them that they pay, it makes no difference. Now imagine a second business owner that is able to produce even more t shirts, for cheaper, and at a much faster rate because they use slave labor to manufacture their shirts. Of course there's nothing wrong in the inherent outcome of the second business owner being far more successful, but instead in the means they achieved that success with. I apologize if it seems I'm being condescending, I just wasn't sure I was completely clear where the inherent problem lies.
A video with Mauler that isn't 17 hours long, Longman bad
I think my favorite argument was "viewers don't jump platforms" almost every react streamer gets linked videos from...their chat, even Dman. There's so much weird shit he's saying about this, I expected him to do what he always does, ya know, steelman the arguments against his position. He also said something along the lines of "if your argument was about copyright thats fine, no one gives a fuck about that" Ironically enough that's exactly the comment that got me banned, simply pointing out that its theft, and he's against theft. There's much more to say, but for whatever reason he picks out the dumbest fucking arguments in chat and on twitter to respond to. Then on Reddit he doesn't do anything to argue against what could be a good argument, he just bans it. Such a weird shift from what he usually does.
my guess is that this is a "i can't change my mind in the middle of debate" type thing. in a few days or weeks he will probably agree with the other side of this debate or have a stronger defense of this position. happens with his vegan arguments or abortion arguments too. (as in the get progressively stronger.)
It's because he's a react streamer himself. Literally every react streamer is defending this in the most disingenuous ways for obvious reasons. They like reacting and people are trying to stop that from happening, therefore obviously, they will defend it to the death. It is what it is. This is just a WE vs THEM situation depending on what you believe in and there is no actual compromising.
Destiny routinely does this whole dialogue tree with every topic, where he pretends that nobody actually cares about any position or belief except for him. They’re always ‘virtue signalling’ or ‘larping’, unlike him, the genius logiclord who has totally thought through every single nuance and angle of a position (which by happenstance always ends up being contrarian to whatever he perceives is the ‘mainstream’ take at the moment.) It’s no surprise to see it here in regards to copyright lmao
Him and hasan are more alike then people think😂
@@Vin_Venture896 okay no? yes this take is shit but doesn't mean he is a contrarian. usually he does have a thought process (although sometimes it does get hindered) and a lot of the time people do virtue signal. are there many other examples of this?
Remember when everybody hated the Fine Bros for making reaction content? Man I miss those days, now people are defending multi-millionaire “content creators” doing the same shit for no reason other than being sheep
Thought they hated them for trying to trademark react content itself.
They're drama was around copyrighting the word 'React'. Otherwise, Jinx was probably the biggest offender within that era and is a good point to bring up when referencing people and their problems with react content going far back before streamers
People didn't hate the Fine Bros for making reaction content. In terms of react content, their content is such a far cry from what XQC or Jinx got in trouble for. Homie, they tried to get in trouble for trying to copyright reaction videos as a whole.
Watching an old video on your stream is not that harmful, probably is even beneficial to some extent but watching a brand new video and what's more uploading it whole to your own youtube channel hours after it came out is fucking insane. I am not against all react content, I enjoy the more tasteful reactors like VTH but reacting to and uploading brand new videos without much value added is absolutely a problem. Leaving videos run for your audience without being in the room is also scummy. High effort content like lemmino requires so much time to make, he only uploads once or twice per year, so seeing people just rip that and put it basically unchanged on their youtube the same day is evil to me.
Lately Destiny has this weird thing against people who perceive something is not fair even if that doesn't harm them personally or whatever. I feel its from his opposition to the anti billionaire rhetoric from the left. He for some reason has to defend that because it allows him to shit on people he loves to shit on Twitter. He is basically becoming reactionary to the reactionary left. Or at least that's the energy I get from his Twitter and some stream content. But he can absolutely do better because he did and still sometimes do even today. He has to be in calm mood and if he gets triggered by a tweet or some clip chat links him it's over.
What would be one claim he made in this video that you think was insincere or made out of spite?
The only thing that comes to my mind is the way he treats the hypothesis of "react content takes views away from original creators" as obviously not true unless stats are provided.
I don't think it's that crazy to assume they could harm creators, but I also think it's reasonable to doubt that's the case. Especially after the arguments presented. I do think it's true most react content I've consumed, I wouldn't actually have watched the original video without the reaction.
@@ernestopedraza Watching the entirety of someone's video, no matter how much commentary you provide is still likely not fair use and illegal. That's profiting off of someone else's work.
@@venerables I agree with the essence of your comment. If I just rip off someone's content (maybe add some minimal inconsequential things so it's not exactly the same) and benefit from that. You can call it copying, pirating, free booting, it could be legal or illegal. It's probably a bad thing.
I think, though, that in some cases people can add enough value that it would be fair for them to earn money from it, even if the original content wasn't theirs. Not from a legal, bit from an "ethical" kind of perspective, do you agree?
Like let's say someone records a two hours interview with some expert historian in a language that is almost extinct, but I happen to speak it, copy the video and spend a week subtitling it so people can benefit from it. Would it be unethical for me to accept donations from people thankful about it? What if I split it with the person that recorded the interview? What if I split it with the interviewee and interviewer, organizer of the event, etc? What if they didn't want the content to ever be translated?
@@ernestopedraza As for your first point, no matter how much value you add, if you provide the entirety of someone elses video its likely not fair use. Per googles own definition from their offiical site "Borrowing small bits of material from an original work is more likely to be considered fair use than borrowing large portions." For how ethical it is in my own opinion, I would have to see the video for myself.
The second hypothetical you have is likely fair use if its for education and non commercial purposes.
@@venerablesyeah, but what is or isn't fair use, as I understand, would be determined by a court. I don't see the point bout arguing about a legal definition, because if tomorrow a law passed saying "everything is fair use" you would still not like the facts of streamers stealing content.
I understood you consider that regardless of all context and how much value is added, it would still be unethical to use 100% of someone else's content. And I'd like to test that with some extreme hypotheticals, if you allow me.
Let's say a psychologist makes a one hour breakdown of a 10 seconds TikTok that gives very general bullet point advice on how to cope with the death of a family member. In this breakdown, the psychologist provides valuable and well-sourced information, common difficulties that people deal with and gives practical tips on how to overcome them, etc. Would you consider that an immoral use of the material?
Or let's say there's a very funny series that used to be transmitted in the past but all footage got damaged to the point is unwatchable, the company that made it doesn't exist anymore and the videos float around RUclips. I collect them all and put a lot of effort into restoring them, then upload them in perfect quality for people to enjoy. Regardless of the legality. Would you consider that an immoral act? The series is 100% entertainment and not education in any way.
I’m sorry but Destiny was being really bad faith at the beginning
He has no moral argument and directly profits from this
18:48 Gaming is definitely less lazy than reacting. You still have to at least movie your hands to game and focus.
In some reaction streams, the streamer leaves the room for a minute leaving the video on.
I think with gaming it's different than consuming any other media. You can have completely different experiences with games. You might attach yourself to a character, vibe with the story, you could be great or terrible at it, make different choices altogether, etc. Some people watch gaming because the person is really good or really bad at it. you can't exactly do that with movies or videos.
You can't be at the top of the gaming domain without working extremely hard honing skills and building interesting content to put your skills to use. Reactions surpass all that.
An incredibly important details is that if you are just reacting on stream and want to say its okay then fine .
But theres streamers that literally make youtube channels of them just reacting
I hope MauLer and Destiny's full reaction to the JayExci video gets posted on this channel, lots of great points there.
Regardless, MauLer has the perfect approach towards Steven, he slowly changes his mind argument by argument, the dude has so much patience and insight it becomes straight up cathartic to listen to him sometimes. I might be biased (and based), but I feel like MauLer is the best orbiter anyone could wish for.
Have you watched the episodes of sitch and adam's show with mauler ? He usually stays away from left/right political discussions, and even on those appearances he doesn't say much about this kind of topic (the last vaush destiny discussion they reviwed for example) but I really like whenever he's on that show.
Yeah mauler has a really buttwry smooth approach to discussions, he makes it obviously clear what he's talking about and wants to tackle at any point, and doesn't let go of it
mauler is a sub humans as the anti-woke crowd
His talents are kind of wasted on his long-form criticism and podcasts taking 3 hours to get through a 15 minute video. Can't say his reactions aren't transformative though.
I’m glad Mauler Showed Destiny that screen share. Now he can react to content with Orbiter so they can argue amongst themselves while he gets all the revenue
The irony of Destiny reacting to Darkviper is pretty good here. If he gets dmca from this it will give me a good chuckle.
Appropriate that MauLer's section is the longest one.
I wonder how Destinty would feel if someone ripped one of his entire debate streams with the occasional reaction.
Did happen already and he just made a video on it
Its obvious that react meta is a result of how twitch works. To become famous you MUST stream for long amount of time. Reacting to a video is the easy mode where you fill time with interesting video without doing anything. To stop the stream is to risk your fans going to someone else. Its kinda how amazon workers are forced to pee into bottles, technically they can just not do that, but then they would get fired which would be worse for them.
The reason people are fine with responding to other people is that its usually fair use (like criticism, or rebuttal of an argument). Obviously example of the cave video still wouldn't have been a good reaction, almost as if a political commentator should not react to a story of a guy dying in a cave.
Comparing react content to amazon warehouse workers is a beautiful analogy. Also hilarious cause I'm less grossed out by piss in a bottle than "reactors"
Yeah although I hate reaction content and think it's blatant stealing I do think there's a bit of nuance when it comes to politics and news. That being said reactors also seem to have some CEO mindset where they go "Ahh that's just how the game is played" when taking advantage of systems allowing them to stream other people's content without being punished. Strangely enough they seem to understand why streaming paid content like movies or anime is bad (despite doing it anyways) yet they think just because youtube content is free to watch they also think it should be free to distribute.
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l Its not strange though, 'paid content' is owned by big corporations that will come down the cease and desists. Unlike small channels they will not be afraid to take you to court. Hell they would probably be willing to do that to actual fair use criticism cases where only small amount of footage is even used.
Me personally, I think channels that exist solely to pump out reactions are unethical, as its kinda like AI art thing, you turned something beautiful into a job. You are no longer doing it because you enjoy but because you have to pay your bills with it. I do have a soft spot for 1k sub channels that are doing it as a hobby, even if unethical I don't see them doing too big a harm since it fills my niche.
I do see value of reactions (either as you the viewer being friendless so other person reacting fills the void or as an expert explaining his field like Legal Eagle or that army dude that sounds like he is going off on an irrelevant tangent but by then end makes you feel like you learned something new. Just checked his yt channel is 'MHGR') so I would personally don't think that they should be deleted as a concept.
They use that "we have to stream for so long every day" like that's a justification for stealing people's shit without permission and say as if that's anyone else's problem but their own. Streamers have gotten so comfortable having it easy and have gotten used to making a career off of other people's shit. Or they started off their career off of other people's shit and that's all they know. It became part of their nature, so when people attack it, they feel like their world is crumbling down and get desperate in defending a side with no good defense.
@@runelt99 Yeah as Muta said not *all* react content is bad. It's just nowerdays people associate "react" content with bucket hat Jinx (idubbbztv content cop) rather than the older transformative H3H3 stuff.
As long as the react content doesn't replace the original in the market then it should be fine. Ideally the react content not showing the entire video would entice the viewer to seek out the original in it's entireity.
As others have pointed out if the reaction video is like an 80% or more match then maybe there could be a system to make all the ad revenue go to original content creator instead.
If you hear Destiny say calm down or list stupidity as an actual point of contention be prepared for no value statements to be made for like 20 minutes straight
This was a great stream. I love collaborations with destiny and Mauler. And it was fire when Aba and some ordinary gamer, jumping in!
What was so good about the collaborations between them?
@@lampad4549 Mauler is well-spoken, very informed on the topic, and isn't inflammatory toward Destiny. I enjoyed the convo a lot
@@monkeymode13 yup, especially since it seems like Mauler respects destiny
There is a big difference between a ABA & Preach video where they talk for 2 minutes between 30 seconds Jubelee clips and XQC putting a 30 minutes video while he eats is DoorDash order. Obviously need to be a distinction, the two are clearly not the same.
I think the putting on content while leaving is absolute garbage and even with streamers I like I instantly turn off their shit. But when talking about whether it is harming the original content, I disagree, since there is not even stats to point out any significant amount of views being stolen ever. There was a video xqc reacted to a few days ago about a dense city complex and pretty much left for the entire video, which the original content creator posted a time lapse of, together with a graph of his view count. There was no spike in his graph indicating it helped his video, and I think it's complete dogshit to do videos while gone. But what the graph also didn't show was any views being stolen, it was a super normal view progression like you see on a ton of videos
its insane to me that anyone could see darkviper videos and even read his essay and actually disagree with him, the dude literally proves his point so clearly in every single god damn video he uploads about this shit
and I am surprised a huge amount of the people are on his side, i would guess most would be a contrarian like destiny is being and just pretend viper is WRONG or smt
Hope that supply of copium never ends. Most generic idiots would love to be on the anti-react side, they're just surprised that there's never been any concrete proof(except speculation from people like darkviper) about how youtube works. No one except youtube knows how youtube works
@@A_3000dark vipers argument is that the limited set of impressions on the platforms go to reactors instead of real content. This is obviously a fact, not speculation
i can say personally, that i will watch 5 different streamers react to the exact same video and sometimes I will peak at the video if there are some interesting elements (chad chad or jubilee is a good example). For the most part, I either won't watch the video at all because it's boring without the social interaction of the stream
@@TheButterAnvil For the millionth time, we are in a debate bros comments section, my friend. So save your breath.
Dark viper isn’t just against bad reactions, he’s against reaction content period, which is an extreme take. It’s insane to me that so many people even take him seriously.
Imagine being so out of touch with reality that you think you need to bring "studies" to prove that streaming someone elses content is bad lmao.
Enormous Destiny L.
Because there are so many other conflating factors. It seems like streamers watching content does support the original video, it seems like that wasn’t ever seriously attacked. If it is neutral and doesn’t help or hurt that is also fine as then no harm is done and on it gain. The only issue would be if it harms the original poster and that needs to be studied.
“I’m not putting those chemicals in my body, I don’t need a study, that’s just common sense!”
@@daviddavidson6278my issue is that Destiny is pretending there needs to be harm for it to even be bad lool. You're a lazy thief regardless of whether or not they were harmed.
The only bone I'll throw out is that any creators who don't use DMCA *deserve* to be stolen from.
Because he’s autistic and simps for authority. He needs an absolute straight line to come to any conclusion rather than using any semblance of common sense or deductive/inductive reasoning
as someone who watches destiny
I agree with you.
destiny is COPING hard here.
@@daviddavidson6278 Would it be OK to steal someone's car while they aren't using it to make money as an uber driver assuming the wear and tear addition is minimal?
I think aba and preach do reacting the most ethically. They are extremely transformative and never show the majority of most videos and tell you where to watch the original content
57:17 that's similar to what we did in the mlp brony furfig community. since a lot of animators were having lazy pngs react to their stuff in full. minus the money. should of did the money part.
Destiny L
dgg redditors waking up to see their accounts getting tiananmen squared
34:50 Is Destiny being mindfuly ignorant here? Like does he really believe that the people watching him react to something on stream will watch it again somewhere else? I know that people do this because I do it myself, if I know a streamer is reacting to something I will not prewatch that video and just wait for them to do it. Yes, people do that they will not watch original content on purpose and wait for their streamer to do it.
14:50 "Just DMCA the streamer" doesn't work for RUclips where the problem is currently being fought over though or am I wrong? Isn't RUclips's copyright system still shit?
@@daasnahk5058 Right, so if a user like Sniperwolf doesn’t credit usernames, it’s hard for those creators to fight it because the system is flawed when dealing with that. -He seems a bit disconnected here- well to be fair he is only talking about streamers specifically so that isn’t true lol
O7 to everyone that posted on the subreddit and sent donos only to get banned. Styrofoam arc is here with a vengeance.
Muta is one of the most genuine, normal dudes on youtube.
Shouts out to SomeordinaryGamers
he is just some ordinary gamer dude
Lol no
@@6minecraftendermancan you explain why?
@@6minecraftendermanWhy not?
All I hear and see is a fellow react streamer squirming and making excuses to save his own bottom line. It will be funny once these original content creators start taking down these leeches by DMCAing them.
Pretty much lol. And in classic Destiny fashion he will never admit he's wrong.
The moral wrong is in the unrealized gain that rightfully belongs to the video maker. For example, if a streamer uses a video to entertain their audience while they go afk for 20 minutes the video maker should have made money for that. So it's not about the "harm" as destiny keeps talking about, it's about the lack of gain.
The reason why creators aren't dmca striking is because they are falsely concluding that the value of the extra eyes on their channel is a fair deal for the "free" entertainment their video is providing to the streamer using it. The person who ought be "winning" in this deal is the video maker, meaning they ought receive the sweeter end of the deal or at the bare minimum even. The reason is because they are the ones who actually created the good or the majority of the entertainment which creates the value. The car salesman doesn't make as much as the person who actually owns the car.
Bottom line is, if a content creator makes a video and someone like XQC or Hasan "rents" it for their massive production, that video maker should basically be celebrating because of the amount of money they just made from that. My solution is simple, say a streamer reacts to an hour long video of a creator, that streamers average hourly stream earnings including sponsors, ads, donations, everything. 50% of that hour should go to the creator at the very least.
You would still have demand and supply in this kind of system, right? Would a streamer find the worse transaction worth the time, or would they simply move on to another video maker that offers their videos for less? Eventually, with a binary system like that, you would get video makers that let streamers react to them for small benefits vs. video makers that get little to no reactions or benefits at all, unless their content is deemed worth the cost. The only difference maker would be some concrete evidence that reactions generate negative engagement, meaning a binary system like “yes they can react or no they can’t react” would have an actual benefit. But we already have that system with RUclips, and video makers are generally free to decide whether they want it or not.
@@cadenceew7933 Well to start youtube should offer creators a little button they can click like an on off switch for each of their videos that indicates if they're okay with people reacting to it. Further, youtube should make it mandatory for IF a video with that button was reacted to for it to be linked in the description, and if the creator said no reactions for the vid to automatically be dmca'd. After such a system is in place, the value the reactor should be obliged to give should be a static % of the net earnings. I guess of the video, but in theory it would be a % of whatever the $/minute the streamer makes based on the # of mins. But yeah, I agree what you outlined would be a problem to avoid because creators have too big of bargaining power.
@@XanEli1 I think that makes sense, but would be hard to calculate with streaming, and how much the video actually contributes to the money earned by the streamer. Maybe it could be some percentage of ad revenue, but cross-platform costs and subscriptions would be extremely hard to calculate. Another problem is if a streamer were to react to a tiktok, or a tweet, or some other form of content that generates a reaction but only for an extremely small fraction of time. Or if someone reacts to someone reacting to someone, and how that monetary split would be calculated. Otherwise, I don’t know how easy it wold be to implement that kind of thing with videos on RUclips, but it totally makes sense. Cheers.
@@cadenceew7933 Yeah I agree with everything you said ofc. The issue you're talking about is one of practicability, if the conversation was restricted to morality the answer remains clear imo.
Thats a really good way of putting it!
Didn't Destiny call those who wanted to pirate the Harry Potter game to be cringe, and such action takes away potential profit the studio / developers could've gotten otherwise? It's the same concept here isn't it? In fact, you could easily argue that it's worse in XQC / Hasan / Destiny's case, as they aren't just pirating for themselves; they're pirating for hundreds of thousands of people per video. Let's face it, most of these lazy reacts (including many of Destiny's nowadays) are pretty far from fair use. Playing the video and occasionally pop in a sentence or two is stealing.
Is a let’s play stealing?
@@shanecoyle8053since games are interactive, no. That is something you cant get by watching a video. However watching a video gives the same experience, whether you are watching the original, or through a reactor.
@@shanecoyle8053no because video games are interactive. simply playing it is inherently transformative, even moreso depending on the game. like minecraft or rogue-likes. but to further that point, lets plays are traditionally edit heavy. they usually feature large amounts of editing so you’re not even getting the full experience of the game in most cases. although this isn’t always true.
compared to xqc or any other react streamer uploading a whole ass video, no editing, no commentary, no anything. its night and day.
The easiest solution would be for the reactor to have to contact the original creator to to ask permission and/or to work out a revenue split with the og creator.
would you make the same argument for games? should i need to ask Nintendo's permissions before uploading a playthrough, think hard about this one cause its a pretty aligned anaology, plenty of games a playthrough could pretty convincingly, possibly even in a court of law, be considered a substitute, if i upload a longplay of tlou1 with no commentary have i made a substitute of that game? could sony and naughty dog argue i hurt their sales, ideally no, because people want to engage with the content directly, same with a youtube video, people watching a streamer react arnt watching for the content of the reacted video, many times people watching the stream have _already_ seen the original and want to see whatever streamers reaction, and people who just want to watch the video probably dont want to watch asmongold for example turn a 1h50m video into a 6 hour stream of him pausing for 5 minutes to say "uh huh" and going on an unrelated tangent (why do people watch asmongold again?)
@@CoreStarter
The last time I read up on this it seemed to be the consensus among copyright lawyers that let’s plays were not fair use. Companies allow them, typically explicitly, to be streamed. So that isn’t the best analogy. A better one would be films or television.
@@CoreStarterGames are interactive, that is something you can not get by watching a video. Meanwhile watching a video remains the same, even if you watch it through a reactor.
Great editing August, working over time to keep that job!
Gotta earn that 40%!
making 5 figures a month editing videos isnt a job, same way making 7 figures a year streming isnt labour. maybe career? still doesnt sound clean to me. i think we need new words for these hotshots.
@@Desdress u just wish you were august
@@Desdress someone is jelly
@@EpicbubbleNITE even destiny wishes he was august.
and im glad for august being august. no hate. just dont call it a job. like his alarm goes off at 7:30 he then comutes 30 mins to office, sitting at his cubicle, getting stressed by his boss, trying to find some value or meaning in his tasks, only to get back home at 6 all sweaty and burned out.
Destiny is so wrong here it's hilarious lmao.
The entire time, while watching DV's video, he tried making the argument that twitch viewers wouldn't be watching random youtube videos in the time-frame where streamers don't watch youtube videos. DV was talking specifically about the youtube audience, that would get exposed to the uploaded reactions instead of the original content, because that also gets pushed in the algorithm alongside normal, long form videos. If a youtube viewer gets a reaction recommended and watches 1 reaction, this type of video is gonna get promoted to them all the time, robbing the normal creators from the spot on the recommended tab.
Also the DMCA argument DV presented is valid. 2 years ago, xQc got a DMCA from NBC for streaming the Olympics. He actually fkn counterclaimed it, so if he's that stupid, what's stopping him from doing the same to a 50k sub youtuber? Even if the youtuber wins, the continuous costs of having a lawyer on payroll would drain their bank account so hard, they could be bankrupt. Also, don't forget that the reactors could send their minions to harass and bully the youtuber for issuing a DMCA in the first place. Believe it or not, there are people who don't want to subject themselves to death threats over a DMCA.
xqc counterclaiming that _wasn't_ stupid though, from the literal text of the DMCA commentary is transformative and qualifies _anything_ for fair use, you people are all just so brain rotted from decades of disney and other huge media corporations abusing the ever living fuck out of DMCA and frequently just using illegal SLAPP suits in states with trash anti-SLAPP laws to stop people from doing _anything_ they don't want to their stuff, legal or not. react content is legal, and reacting over the brand new disney movie would also be legal if DMCA wasnt written so poorly and we had a better legal system in the US that wasnt so easily abused. (a flaw basically every other country shares because lobbying exists basically everywhere)
how do you know that these youtube viewers would watch or have the of vids in their algorithm? this just seems like a way to justify this take by saying what might happen when we don't know. people will only want the reactors reaction and wont be interested in others content. they will probably have other interest that will take over their algo and a random video essay wont pop up.
I would be on ur side if not for all of ur if statements like how can all of u guys use that as ur main argument and not back it up with evidence. sure its hard but that doesn't mean u can just state it like its true. the argument on backlash is the only one I'm considering cause I don't pay attention to most drama and don't know the culture. don't people watch reaction content for the reactor not the content tho? no stealing because the original wouldn't get the views but may get the views because the reactor watches it?
@@BOO00R i checked this myself. made a fresh google account and started browsing youtube. after watching ~30 normal, algorithm-pushed videos, i came across one xqc reaction on the recommended tab without going out of my way to type it in the search engine. the video was called "why oppenheimer deserves his own movie | xqc reacts". watched the 30 minute, uncut reaction and after finishing the video, i went to the home page and refreshed. now, out of 12 videos in the first two rows, i had 3 xqc reaction videos. the recommended tab 100% takes watchtime into account and if it sees you being engaged in a video, it'll push the same type.
@@tititamasese5498 the problem arises when the reactor is dry as a brick, doesn't engage with the content, or just straight up walks away while the video is playing. the main offenders like hasan and xqc just don't have anything interesting to say, so they use the original videos as adderall subway surfers gameplay for their viewers to hold them in.
Creators and viewers give fairly reasonable takes on react content and Destiny's first thought is "this is just an attack on streamers!!" And then goes on to say RUclipsrs are just totally lost without a script as if most of them aren't already live streaming, they just aren't doing it for 12 hours a day because they aren't as ego driven.
Imagine being that self-centered, dude is absolutely lost so far in his own ego that he forgot to pretend like he's not a narcissist.
Pretty cringe post man ngl fam
The takes aren't reasonable. The only evidence points towards this content helping the original creator. Maulers best argument is "well it doesn't necessarily benefit the og creator so we should er on the side of caution" the truth is the evidence leans towards react content helping the og creator. Most of the ppl upset are coping
@@alexanderacheson2961 it doesn't matter if it helps or hurts the original creators, the fact is if someone doesn't want a streamer making thousands by unlawfully streaming copyright content then that creator has every right to criticize the reactors and so does everyone else. They even catch Destiny with this in the video when he admits that it's OK to take the videos down, but somehow it's still not fair for everyone to call out the lazy reactors??
@@TheStatisticalPizza destinys argument is ppl don't rly care and every1 is just virtue signalling. His argument rests on the idea that ppl aren't DMCAing bcus it's against there interests. Nobody is making the legal argument. Ppl are making a moral argument. If creators want to strike streamers they can legally, nobody ever said they can't. Ppl r arguing whether DMCAing is morally and pragmatically good/bad. All the evidence points towards react content being beneficial towards the original creator which is why most don't care or DMCA. Mayb u watched the wrong vid
@@TheStatisticalPizza not a single person is making the legal argument and you're either an idiot or disingenuous if ur trying to claim that's the point of contention here
I've been waiting for MauLer to have this chat with Destiny for over two years.
Me as well.
same, now we wait for their interstellar debate haha
one day...
@@nowone666 Oh Nough
@@nowone666still waiting on the atla debate but that's never going to happen cause mauler spine broke after that
It was pretty underwhelming given how much energy mauler had in his video now that he talks to destiny has such a soft position on it.
10 seconds in and in the intro Destiny calls DarkViper retarded, great argument, so I will just save myself 2 hours and 28 minutes here and close the video.
Don't forget to dislike the video PwP
That will definitely save you braincells
I think the law is pretty clear here. You can't just take someone work, re-upload it in its original quality with some commentary over it, without license to do so. Short clips, shown in lower resolution as part of a larger transformative work would be acceptable.
Im reacting to Destiny reacting on RUclipsrs reacting to XQC reacting to JFK assasination video. this madness needs to stop
We need to go deeper with reacting to comments reacting to Destiny reacting on RUclipsrs reacting to XQC reacting to JFK assasination video.
I will react to that
ok, so can't google just say to credit the youtube vid owner when referencing it? pretty simple! and people who don't do this can get reported and get strikes.
I think the coolest solution to this problem would be for youtube to implement a react feature where it's like twitch squad streams where you see both at the same time. That way it would give the original and the react video the watch time. A system where if the streamer pauses the video to talk, it also pauses the video they're reacting to. It's a gigantic win for the original content creator. At that point they would be begging streamers to react.
This is the core of it all; workers should be paid fairly for their work.
I'm sure you understand, but many others need to continue to see this point when put into context of a possible solution like yours to understand. Still, a small critique. Equal watch time and views for a streamer as the original video will still end up benefitting the streamer more, since it will keep you on their channel and not the original creator, so the original still has to rely on a boost in the algorithm to bring more views from elsewhere. But, at least it would get that original video the total views and watch time of everyone in that stream. This then still has the trouble of uploading that reaction to RUclips, of which the original video would still be harmed in views and watch time, ultimately hurting it in the algorithm. But it's a better idea than what we currently have.
I wonder if destiny wasn’t borderline a react streamer would he have a different opinion
Is opinion is fully consistent idk why you would even bring this up. As soon as you give evidence of reaction videos screwing over the og creators he'll gladly agree with creators dmca striking reactors. The problem is that nobody has the evidence.
@@nighthawk2548I’m sympathetic to Dark Vipers argument that the real problem is it harms the entire ecosystem of content creation through theft so downstream it harms every type of creator that isn’t a react streamers and Dark Viper gave plenty of evidence.
I used to be in the “react content isn’t bad” boat. I thought DarkViperAU was completely off. But I’ve completely flipped on this lately.
I just feel so disheartened that DarkViperAU, someone I’ve followed for a few years and had the pleasure to exchange words with back-and-forth briefly, would just back down from talking to Steven over this. I think both were mean to eachother, and maybe I just feel the impact of two streamers I deeply enjoy, yell at eachother and it just makes me sad, but uh.. yeah, definitely disappointed in Viper for not discussing this with Steven directly. I feel butthurt At him, for acting this way.
I’m sorry for the long winded monologue, I have a mix of being a good writer and also halacious(can’t spell) at getting to my point. Rip learning disabilities
I would flip on it and think react content was bad if only someone on this planet linked me some sources with data to back this up, but so far no one has done that. The point about a viewer being taken from an interaction pool and therefore being pulled away from the original video has zero sources or data to back this up. This is mostly "I think" statements. Do you really believe someone who watches their favorite streamer is gonna turn the stream off because there is no reaction right now and look up random videos? The ability to understand how viewers behave is not present in his video at all in my opinion. Not even talking about all the other things like the DMCA stuff where a content creator is guaranteed to get a take down and have the support of a ton of people on this platform in doing so.
@@ThySheepieI do get you but Mato isn't really at fault here. It's not smart to just debate someone on an issue when you have clearly and completely laid out your position in a video that the person refuses to watch. At that point it's just a public stunt to shame Mato for his lower debating skills in the heat of the argument.
Okay, I’ve seen the light over the past week. I still feel like a lot of react content is just shameless theft (a lot of also clearly fair use and transformative) But DarkViperAU is so insufferable that it makes me stop caring about this debate completely