Can psychology be Christian? [CCT Conversations // Eric Johnson & Siang-Yang Tan]
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- Опубликовано: 14 апр 2014
- Some Christians call it "psychoheresy." But are psychological research, psychoanalysis, and psychotherapy really inconsistent with Christian faith and practice? Eric Johnson (So. Baptist Theo. Seminary) and Siang-Yang Tan (a pastor AND a psychologist at Fuller Theo. Seminary) discuss whether there can be such a thing as "Christian Psychology."
Wow I’m majoring in psychology and I’m also a Christian. I didn’t think I would be able to do both but this gave me some hope and I’m going to pray on it. I want to be able to help and be used by God in this field 🙏🏼
You're going to do exactly what you want to do.
Suffering is the door way - those who suffer most are saints- that's in the bible. you are basically glorified in heaven the MORE you suffer here.
@@christinadelacroix2370 hey what verse is that?
How is it going? I’m really interested in psychology and I’m thinking of going into psychology or neuroscience but i have been a bit worried about how that might affect my faith and how it might affect me in general.
@@jadegarrison8668 I’m about to finish my major in psych and i plan on getting my masters. I’m going to be a christian therapist or psychiatrist. I fasted about it and God put it across my heart to become a christian councilor. If you are interested, i 100% recommend!
I have a perspective for everyone commenting saying how psychology and Christianity are opposed, or that "Christian psychology" couldn't be a thing. Psychology is simply the study of the psyche. The word psyche is greek word for soul. God created the Psyche. Why would it be sinful to study it? I definitely don't agree with much of the conclusions os modern psychology but the study itself is not wicked. Peace and light be upon you all from the LORD Jesus Christ.. Great video.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Thank you for your comments. You're playing with a full deck, and operating on the basis of having more than half a brain.
@Michael Hwang That's completely exaggerated. Often secular psychologist substitute soul for mind. I've never heard anyone substitute soul for behavior.
@@cameron.on.canvasthoughts and emotions are part of your soul
@@Jv9569
A soul even if it did exist is not a brain, once the brain dies all your thoughts and emotions are erased, you will be as before you were born.
Such a great job explaining Christian Psychology, also as a graduate student and new intern for counseling the importance of self-care is being emphasized in my school. To have this Christian conceptualization of self-care will help me to remember to rely on God for care. I tend to easily be self-reliant, so I know God has used this video to remind me of his desire to care for me and to remind me to rely on him. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
This is amazing! As a Christian and a Psychologist by profession, here in an Asian country, the stigma is still there - for Christians who would like to seek mental health consultation, but they are afraid to be judged ( as not praying, or reading the Bible, or of weak faith). Thank you for this very great discussion. It makes me more driven to help more people and integrating the Christian faith into my field (of course, with consent). God bless you, us all
Oh hey Shinx! God bless!
@@johnmarimarcelo thank you 😊
I am def. reading your book as Im in masters of psychology now ! thank you .
This deserves way more views and comments than it has received. It is a fantastic introduction to the conversation and has layers to be unpacked by the audience. On another point, after viewing some of the comments below, I think Christian psychology/counseling delves into being truly present with another human being within their various bio-psycho-socio-spiritual contexts. It views a person holistically, and this I think -- is -- biblical. Christian psychology is not the abandonment of good theological practice (such as Dr. Siang-Yang Tan states), rather it is integrative. It addresses necessary authenticity that a person needs and can guide us to connect with our deeper identity within the space of being made in image of God. It further guides us to fears and longings and even invites God into this sacred space as well. Christian psychology/counseling is not a magic wand where a person goes to be "fixed." Life is a journey on the roadway to completion. The good news is that we do not have to be alone on that journey. Christian psychology/counseling is a space where a person's holistic self can be valued and the necessary journey of life can continue though the sharing of one's authentic narratives.
very well put
"Christian Psychology" does not exist
I agree Michael. Very well said indeed. Christian psychology does exist. My view is that therapy/counseling is a sanctification process.
We must understand as Christians that the brain is as much an organ as the heart. It may need medication to function properly. God answered my prayers by providing a Christian psychologist for me and my son. We are both ADHD. He counsels us both on a spiritual level and scientific level. All wisdom comes from God and I believe it is His will for all psychologists to be Christians. Christians need to stop making people feel guilty about seeing a therapist. God provides for our needs in many different ways. Do you have any idea how many pastors commit suicide? Most of those could have been avoided if they felt they could see a professional without being condemned by the church. They know Scripture, but they could have had a problem with their brain that medication could have helped. Instead, they got so depressed, they took their own lives. The blood is on the hands of those who condemn Christians for seeking the help of a professional.
+Beth Ross Thanks so much for your comment, Beth. We're with you that all true wisdom is God's, and it's important for us to receive the best psychology has to offer and seek to integrate it consistently with theological and spiritual truth. Peace to you, Evan Rosa for The Table
Beth Ross AMEN, to that! I am So glad that you were able to find a Christian Counselor!
I think there is no such thing as a Christian psychology; neither Buddhist, communist, or Jewish psychology. Christianity is a religion; psychology is a science. Imagine a Christian astrophysicist who tries to "integrate" astrophysics with the Bible, by saying that the only valid astrophysics is the part that agrees with a religious collection of text written by desert dwellers from two millenia ago. See the absurd?
I understand there are people who are so utterly religious that simply cannot think outside the biblical box. That's fine as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on the rest of society. But please don't try to call yourselves psychologists.
Francisco....What you said is so utterly absurd and comical that I wish youtube had a laughing emoji. CHRISTIANITY is not a religion but a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. It has nothing to do with science but how you treat people and yourself which is VERY psychological..... sometimes there are people so utterly scientific they cannot think outside the scientific box. that is actually not fine because you condemn and wrongfully judge anyone who finds a better way to see the world. (it was scientists who dismissed and accused Marcelino Sanz de Sautuola of being a fraud......only to prove him right many years later... too little too late.) Please feel free to call yourself whatever you like. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. but don't you dare tell others that science and religion don't mix when they have found proof that it does.
Science is not perfect. Science is always changing and rewriting itself..... Christ's love and sacrifice remains the same no matter what.
Francisco Martín Vargas Estrada As a Christian and Science enthusiast... I recognize that the Bible is simply misinterpreted by so many people to the detriment of their own faith. For example, the “seven days” of creation... one day did not mean one day. It’s obvious the earth is not 6000 years old... One “day” was a loong loooooooong time. Dinosaurs are also mentioned in the Bible. The atmosphere itself, when dinosaurs existed, was a hyperbaric one. Vegetation as well as the dinosaurs grew indefinitely it was a FASCINATING planet!!! Along with that, there is scientific proof of flood which covered the entire earth. Etymology is often so overlooked here. So many words, phrases and even actions used and described in the Bible, mean SUCH different things than they did so long ago. On top of that there are many translations which can mislead people into thinking differently as well. There is much to learn and discover about the universe and the Bible. God is GOOD. Jesus is our savior. (Proof exists of his time here on earth as well) Love and prayers to you dear friend. 🙏🏻 🕊 😊
i think I want this. I’ve loved psychology since i was little, but I truly started my journey with Christ around a year and a half ago, and I love God. And i’ve just realised that I could actually find a way to integrate both into psychology. This is beautiful ❤
Christianity and Psychology can definitely coexist, so long as Christ is given preeminence
This video is fanatically helpful. Thank you.
I really enjoyed this conversation!
The BEST Psychology is the Knowledge of the Holy One. As the Spirit says thru Paul writing "Let this MIND be in you that was also in Christ Jesus". God does not just offer you a clean soul, and a soft sensitive heart. He renews your MIND!!! Like a fresh green Tree that receives the Living Water up thru it's roots.
There’s a lot of good in this video I feel it!♥️
Thank you for the wonderful video. Spiritually insightful and helpful to me as i am currently studying Christian counselling in seminary.
10:22 minutes profound statement. As christian counselors we do have a lot to contribute to the discipline of Psychology. We ought not to shy away. Let us stand tall and do the work as professional christians
I'm currently studying clinical counseling and psychology. This is the best explanation and conversation I've heard so far. I love studying clinical counseling and psychology. Colorado Christian University has made this a wonderful learning experience.
This is an excellent discussion! Very helpful.
Siang-Yang Tan makes some really good points
Wonderfully explained. 🤗
Very informative! Thank you!
It is good to hear Dr. Tan again. He is a fully functioning, whole person member of the care and cure of the soul. When I retired from a church ministry to open a Christ centered in- an out-patient center, a friend asked, “Do you still believe in Jesus and salvation now that you have left the church”? I did NOT “Leave the church”. I left being paid by a church. To separate a person from Christian ministry because of professional competence is unbiblical Greek Dualism.
Every psychological theory is based on one or more of 4 views of broken human nature we also find in the Bible. Psychologists and Doctors are always trying to answer the question, “What is principally wrong with people that they act as they do and need assistance/healing?” We Christians ask the same question. “What is wrong with people and what can we do biblically to heal them and foster growth?” Every Psychological intervention is based on the answer and so is every Christian intervention. Dr. Tan, and I, will use almost any intervention because we are “Multi-Modal Theologians who apply Multi-Modal Interventions”. We also equip Lay or Peer Care Givers because we believe every believer contributes positively or negatively to the health of the Christian Community. “The Early Christian Church was the most powerful therapeutic community ever known!” O. Hobart Mowrer, President of the APA.
Tragically, many Christian schools start at Intervention Level rather than the “Basic Theology of Fallen and Redeemed Nature” to develop a Healing Growth Theology. It can end up as a mish mash of theories unhinged from a Whole Person View.
Good thoughts around the code of ethics and counselling those people in your own church, friends and relatives. I really appreciate his thoughts on Christian counselling.
Yes! Integrate! It saddens me that so many Christians cannot see the value in all we are learning about the mind and healing. No one says we should throw out all the new knowledge of how to care for the rest of our bodies, why do they think we should do this with the mind.
Absolutely agree!
Yes I agree. I find that mindset stupid honestly.
One of the biggest problems I see in these Christians that are adamant against Psychology is their innate sense of distrust. We forget that we are ALL fallen and damaged, and some of us are born with lesser instruction by decent parents, or have little understanding because we have low IQs (I'm sure I will get something for saying this, lol) but the bottom line is, if we TRUST the LORD, we ought also to be able to trust his Christian children who were given gifts in the area of "Helps," and that too is biblical. We can TRUST that GOD is watching out for ALL of us because God does not want ANY of us to perish; Hell was never meant for humans, so God has made many ways to reach him, especially when we have been wounded terribly by the world. lt is true, we ought not to ALLOW anyone to think for us, but we can be helped by others to see things a bit clearly when we have not had the fortune to have good around us in our lives.
Glory To God ❤️ #psychologymajor
Beautifully done video loved the interview very hopeful and knowledgeable a pleasure to watch and gain knowledge from thank you. God Bless
John 16: 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Why did this make me cry?
@@RealistNo1 what a lovely comment Lydia! Blessings
I suppose because it resonated with a deeper side of you! :)
GREAT discussion. Is there a podcast on this subject?
very informative and coherent
God bless you !!
i like it
I'm a Christian and I really want to be a psychiatrist... but I take a psychology course, (I'm homeschooled), and my course always gives the "Christian view," of the subjects and it got me to thinking that maybe psychiatry wasn't something that I could do. But I thought about it a lot and I feel really called to it. But I'm just curious to hear what other people think of it, so someone please give me opinions. xoxo
(sorry for a really late response 😂) but maybe a year ago i got really interasted in psychology and i wanted to be a child psychologist but then somehow that faded away and i got so much closer to God and i am a born again Christian and i am trying to figure out what to do in future and i pray every day and tell God that i will do whatever He wants me to. So the other day our neighbour came and my parents and her were talking and she said that someone she knows finist a collage for psychology i i belive that it was Gods way of reminding me what i want to do, actually what He wants me to do in life. I never saw psychology as something bad, it a study of soul and mind, and i truly want to help people whether it's through me being a psychologist or something else, but i pray that God leads us and helps us go where He wants us in life. God bless you & your family ☺❤
Hi there! If others were too late, what should I say, four years in. I am wondering, how did you end up choosing? What did you end up doing?
Here is what Dave Hunt says about this:
ruclips.net/video/1EZZzorX2Sc/видео.html
I will be training and mentoring people who want to do professional Christian psychiatry, counseling or psychotherapy. Contact me to be put on the waiting list.
In my view the controversy centers around the end game. Are we trying to make people feel better about themselves and their lives, or are we ultimately assisting in the sanctification process? If it's the latter, how then does a Christian counselor help a non-believer?
Being a Christian, a human mind is in a delicate state and can be damaged to change its function, but my question is, this being said, can a man in the same delicate state determine the state of the soul? Is psychological determination of who or what a person is by personality a substantial role in determining if spirituality is part of the human mind or a separate body that ministers to the soul?
Wish they hadn't split the audio of the different speakers...
There is no inherent conflict between christianity and science, because a christian would never say 1+1 does not equal 2. So when a christian criticizes science, they are saying they don't believe in facts. It is not science which is a problem, it is when psychologists make their metaphysical and teleological assumptions about "meaning" and "what is healthy" when they will likely diverge from a christian interpretation of a psychological experience. the Christian psychological rubric is faith, hope and love. These can form a guide for all our psychological perceptions, interpretations and actions with a view toward a union with God, self, others and all of reality by grace vs. judgment and control.
i have a question. i want to be a child psychologist. i want to help the kid who were abuse but if it mean that i need to destroy my belief in god i just need to give up in my dream. all i wanted to do is help our youth but i am all confused please help me. i don't know what to do
i feel the same, i am still watching the video so i don't know everything they're talking about but i know that i also want to be a child psychologist and help them.. Just pray about it and He will give you the answers. God bless you! ❤
alex lara As a Christian and a student of psychology, as well as a trauma survivor, I want to share what I have come to conclusion. For me, God uses what he gives us. As I study psychology, I am being open to how God created us, what I can learn about myself, and help others. Everything good comes from God, but it is our own guilt and beliefs we are taught to believe without question can cause us to be blind to the plethora of avenues God helps people to heal as well as lead to salvation. In the end, God is glorified. We can glorify God in how he teaches us and honor him with it. Everything we put our hands to, even our minds, we work for him.
Amen!
Thank you!! The comments here baffle me. We live in a fallen world and people are hurting - Christian psychology is simply how to approach our problems from a Godly perspective.
Amen!
do you have resources in Spanish?
I want to major in art psychotherapy
💯🙏❣ Glory to God Jesus Christ
I think I have found what I have been looking for if only there was one like him in our Parish.
I know many who think and feel like you... Which is why I chose to study Psychology as well after finishing my degree in Theology! Did you end up finding someone near you who is like this?
Are there any truths about human nature that can only be known through God's special revelation?
Suppose there are truths about how to overcome sinful behavior. Are some of those truths found only in God's special revelation?
Holy Spirit most be saw !
If my fellow Christians continue their war against science, then they will be held responsible by God for the Souls they push away from the Faith. All Truth and Knowledge is from God.
I spent years as a hermetic nun so to speak and - the bible is clear- those who drink of the bitter cup of suffering are Saints. St. Paul Suffered acutely...this is the "Way of the Cross' the world is an inverted pyramid. the lowest on earth become the most glorified in Heaven.
I enjoyed watching this video. I am very much against Christian counseling because I was once "addicted" to pornography and sexual sin. I tried everything to quit, including internet filters, accountability partners, Christian and secular counseling, etc., but nothing worked. I ended up getting so frustrated that I told God that I was going to keep surfing porn until He stopped me. Then one day, God changed my heart and gave me a strong passion for purity. The grace of Jesus Christ did something that Christian counseling couldn't do; instantly take away my desire to look at porn. I am still skeptical about Christian counseling, but I do agree with a lot of what Dr. Tan said. Thanks for making this video.
Lee, thanks for your candor and vulnerability. We have to be honest about our natural skepticism in order to understand one another, so kudos for initiating like this. We're very enthusiastic about the ways the Holy Spirit can use people (even counselors, therapists, and scientists) to care for other people. We hope you continue to find strength and peace.
I love this! You basically gave up trying on your own and gave it to God. I still believe in Christian Psychology bc sometimes we simply need to understand what’s going on and Christians need to express themselves ... God has many approaches to heal / deliver people.
God works in many ways, I am so glad God has healed you, amen!
Christian psychology modifies the model of the person by understanding and incorporating the role of the human spirit. I will clarify this in my soon to be launched Transformation Academy which will teach the skills that I incorporate in Christian psychotherapy including proprietary prayerful therapeutic interventions that I have developed. You can find contact information by searching for my name and Christian counsellor or message me.
If you are integrating isn’t that adding to? The Bible says don’t add to or take away
The Holy Spirit or evil spirit or counterfeits, it is either one. 🤔But some Bible teachers, e. g. Derek Prince, one can have both?
Christian Psychologist Doctor Timothy Jennings. 📚 you need to read.
"Could it be this simple?"
"The God-shaped Brain"
"The God-shaped Heart"
As someone who dumped off their Chriatian therapist because they shut me down with their beleifs....no. absolutely. No. Christianity is not objective enough to deal with the human mind.
BO....next question
Psychology, psychotherapy, and psychoanalysis fall (to some degree) under the rubric of "mental alchemy."There's obviously some counsel given that equates with common sense; but when the therapy attempts to explain/categorize a person's thoughts and motives, the respective professionals employing these disciplines, either deliberately or inadvertently cross a line by attempting to discern what only God can understand. Only the Lord comprehends the real person. Mortal man is but a mere guesser -- and quite often, is way off the mark. I'm not judging these two gentlemen but I think the use of the word "psychology" should not be the descriptive for counselling carried out within a purely biblical perspective. On the other hand, placing faith in the theses of ungodly/agnostic/atheistic psychologists/psychiatrists etc. should be avoided at all cost. .
No! Only God knows the true behavior of a person.
Human beings can know the true behavior of a person if they have spiritual discernment.
One is from God the other man
Exactly, why would Christians be spending their time and money towards the counsel of fallen men and their ilk who produced nothing more than theorems, guesses, hypothesis, assertions that are nothing more than conversational and not helpful? The fact that I alone was brainwashed for 7 years by the lies of psychotherapists by taking destructive psychotropic drugs (medication) and therapy after therapy from several different therapists, it already sends a message that these people, no matter what Christian veneer/coating they put into their profession, will only seek what's on your pocket rather than help you with your needs. Bottom line, what Psychotherapists will tell you is the only person who can help you is "yourself." And that is what the Bible opposes.
kigawman It sounds like you've had a really awful experience with psychotherapy. We're sorry to hear that. But we certainly don't think the only person who can save you is yourself, and neither Siang Yang or Eric (in this video) would say that either. All best to you.
The Table | Biola CCT "We" is a plural word where it does not only pertain to you, nor the other person who spoke in the video. I believe you know that your rebuttal by stating "But 'we' certainly don't think the only person who can save is yourself" only holds to your own belief and not for the majority of the Psychotherapeutic/Psychoheresy community, don't you think?
Regardless of whether I watch your video or not, psychology is still rooted within the fallen nature of man and its concepts, theories, disorders, therapies, etc..etc…. do nothing more than to negate the Judeo-Christian worldview AND it is incompatible to juxtapose it!! Despite the translation, Jesus says in Matthew 6:24 - "No man can serve two masters…" Mammon does not only pertain to money but also to riches (I believe you know that, right?). What riches then does psychotherapy have that the God of the Bible *"cannot"* offer? If your justification is to "supplement," why should the Bible be supplemented by the ideas of atheists such as Freud, Jung, Adler, Rogers, etc..etc…??
I agree.. Call me a fundamentalist, but I believe that we have to put God first in hopes of healing. By relying on psychology before you rely on God, you trade a whole God-dependent mindset for a more 'balanced' mindset.
I've been following psyche as a undergraduate student, and it always feel like paying allegiance to the psychology god everytime I think about human solutions through the psychology mindset. Maybe it's just me..
The Table | Biola CCT Some cannot understand the purpose of using tool to get what you need fixed i.e.; the person may require a bit of cognitive behavioral treatment to get them to simply listen to what you are saying. It may take time to get a person to go directly to the word and then there are those who may need psychotherapeutic treatment on a grander scale. It should be understood that have a background in both ideologies can be helpful to the person(s) you are providing counsel to. Remember you may have a disorder that requires that intervention a psychiatrist provides. However; even psychiatrists will tell someone there are other treatment methods out there to help them. Lastly we should remember caregivers of those who are unable to care for themselves and that is where you biblical counseling truly excels. It will always depend largely on who you are dealing with, remember some people need that academic control and they would rather not follow the word of God as they are unable to make an integration. I would say as we continue to help others and use some of those we only learn more, and in the end remember to bath it in prayer.
Let me rephrase these men might not burn in hell long as they repent of psychological idolatry and God showing the ultimate card of forgiveness of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit but after that they must try.
False!!!
If you have a new life in Christ then you interact with the world around you as Christ would and not through the lense of Psychology.