They can't sell there cheapest bikes so lets cancel the cheap ones and there so stupid they will buy the higher priced ones. DUH, That's how you lose half your customers in 10 years. And you give your self a raise for having dumb ideas!
The Motor company never missed an opportunity to produce special and anniversary editions for the Sportster and big twin. Yet they missed an opportunity to market the a 1957 styled Sportster which had the same styling as a big twin. They knew it could sell but the big twin sales would have been sacrificed. Not being in the “look what I got” crowd I still ride my 2003 Sportster.
Harley has loss touch with reality. Harley continues to produce high price bikes that are not selling, sales are slow, Harley won't reduce prices and make basic bikes that cost less. When a company ignores reality, doesn't change and adapt, it fails, it will eventually go out of business.
@@cwag2159 Ghale of Gal's HD gave up her HD Dealership. Now she sells Side by sides.. 4 wheelers Jet Skis ect maybe Japanese motorcycles. Plus she sells and Services Used HD's. Keep HD honest. I hope that Independent shops and Dealers can sell aftermarket parts and do service for a lower price.
I bought my first and last Harley from them.with 1200 miles on it, the bike puked. Dudley Perkins treated me like shit, and Harley wouldn't stand by their bike. Not so sad to see them go under.
You are spot on. Another reason why dealers are closing is because the HDMC has required the larger dealers to conform (upgrade) their stores to the new corporate layout/design. I heard on the grapevine that one dealer said that to recoup the cost of doing so was the equivalent of his next 10 years of net profits. Of course, this assumes that he continues to make profits. HDMC position in this regard is that if you want to continue being a dealer, then you have to comply with the new corporate store layout. Apparently, smaller regional dealerships do not have to comply. One thing is for sure, it's not a great state of affairs that we are talking about this stuff (and have been for a while now) instead of being excited about the new models and how great the company is doing. HDMC only has itself to blame. Their execs are highly paid but they can't see the light, can't read the room, won't eat humble pie admitting their shortsightedness, and won't adopt change in business model to one that works, aka, Triumph, CFMoto, Royal Enfield, BMW and provide a range of motorcycles including ones at reasonable (in the eyes of the consumer) prices. Imagine buying a bike that is very good in all departments that you don't have to upgrade anything, imagine that this bike sells in the thousands in every country with skyrocketing demand. Folks are ordering them because everyone that arrives at the store is already presold - yes, you are imagining the CFMoto 450MT. Where is Harley? well it's got the 500X but instead of reading the market, released it in road format when the market was wanting an Adv bike format and then, didn't make it available in most of its markets. So, sales of the 450MT have gone and continue to go through the roof, whereas sales of the 500X are not.
HD have been getting dealer upgrades as long as I've been riding HD - since 88 - they lost my new bike business however a long time ago and i went with another US retro brand
I could care less mine will turn 20 years old in a few years . They won't work on it after that. They never have any parts. Everything has to be ordered. So it's a no-brainer since I have wait for everything. It would be stupid to buy a original harley part. Which is twice as much for same part that as a rule is made better than a original for half the cost.
The loser at the top called Harley Davidson "a boutique brand". It is not that they can't manufacture and sell bikes for the common man it is that they won't. They lost touch with reality from bad decisions that keep on giving.
the common man is the boomer, people who are the richest generation in history in the west. Now the boomers are getting too old, the younger generation like millennials have less than half the money their parents did. They just priced accordingly, and now the landscape has changed as they've been too slow to adapt
Jockstrap Zeitz probably doesn’t know what food, utilities and rent costs and just assumed everyone has four mansions and a $50k motorcycle is chump change. He is probably the poorest one in his secret circle with a net worth of $28m.
Harley also has a stupid policy of if your bike is older than ten years old they don not want to deal with you and by doing this they are turning away alot of buisness and loyal customers that will now have to go some where else i paid 40,000 for my cvo i love the bike its in great shape and have no desire to buy a new one for 60,000 but when they tell you your bike is obsolete after ten years thats a hard thing to swallow i can go to my local honda dealer and still get parts for 1983 cr 480
And there's the rub...you can't reposition H-D to become a parts vendor because of their established practices of not carrying parts or providing service for motorcycles over ten years old. If no one is buying new models and they won't provide service/inventory for older models, then what parts would they sell?!
This is not just a HD thing. All motorcycle dealers do this. You can still get the parts but they will not work on them. The main problem is the “mechanics” they have in a dealership. They don’t know how to actually fix a bike, they just know how to replace parts.
I live in East Anglia, Lind Harley Davidson was my local dealer until it closed it's doors about a year ago. To me it was no loss, they kept nothing in stock, parts wise, for my 2007 Dyna. I only visited the place once, for an 'open day' that they'd advertised, I wasn't exactly made welcome, car park full of 1 or 2 year old Road and Street Glides with the owners decked out in HD branded gear. I felt that unless you were interested in dropping £50k on a new CVO or similar the dealership weren't interested in engaging with you. I'll stick with my old Dyna and buy my parts from independent suppliers!
I've done a little experiment with Facebook Marketplace and have been following sales of HD motorcycles. So many are with very low miles and not selling at all. Some postings are over a year old! It's plain to see that interest in HDs has declined drastically. 😢
@Gordies-World it's sad that even the classics (once restored and chopped) are at the same price as a 2017 and even close to the 2021s, most between 4-9k
"All roads lead to Harley" had promise, with smaller bikes for younger riders, etc., but this woke German CEO cancelled that and refocused on high profit dad baggers with expensive accessories. I got an Indian Chief instead.
Exactly!! I started with a Suzuki Hayabusa 17 years ago now I ride a Street Glide. But young guys don't ride crotch rockets anymore, so there is no one to take over the mantle and start riding HD motorcycles. This is what this younger generation don't understand, you can't spend your money on drugs and video games and buy motorcycle parts, or make motorcycle payments. Its either one or the other.
@@Toplessghost97 you started on a hayabusa? Lmao. Jesus. I went straight for a low rider S as my first Bike in 2021 and still have it. My buddy recently got a vagina, and a Canadian friend. Also moved into Austin had expressed interest about Harley and Indian.
and what will happen if all the new bikes are electric and they shut down the gas harley built an electric bike called the live wire and they could not give them away and also asked 40,000 dollars and the buyers said no
cause they don't produce products that appeal to the younger riders, which in return allowed the market to open up and Indian started producing motorcycles again.
I am age 73. In 2003 I bought the very lowest priced new Harley that I could buy, a black Sportster XLH883. At the time it was the 3rd most expensive thing I had ever purchased. The first 2 were the mobile home we bought 1 year after we were first married and then the house that we built to rid ourselves of the mobile home. The Sportster was more costly than any car I had ever owned and now at this time I do have a car that cost about $1000 more than the Sportster was priced at. That Sportster price was $6930 with tax and tags. It has been a great purchase and now has 76,000 miles on it. Big Twins? I am not so certain that they are as good bikes as is the Sportster. So, if you buy a Harley, go for the lower end of the price range or go used.
@@ironcast My 1979 Z-28 Camaro was $7,190.00 on the road my 2016 Yamaha FZ-07 was $7,400.00 This I paid more for a 400# Motorcycle than I paid for a 3,500# car with a V-8 not a twin .
I was invited to my local H-D dealer for the launch of a couple of CVOs, one of which was over 55 grand...not one of us at the launch could afford one. I've said for years that H-D should have a parts manufacturing side of the business for all their older models going back to Flatheads as loads of their older models are still running. I'd rather buy genuine parts for my older H-Ds than aftermarket parts. Good video, thanks.
My only reply is why would I buy parts for "legacy" models from H-D when they won't/can't provide service. If the average person is getting their older motorcycle serviced at an independent shop then, it stands to reason, that they would get parts ordered by (or recommended by) said independent.
its o k to think that way i do as well but think of the cost of those part sitting on a shelf not knowing how many will sell and when that is a lot of money sitting there this why any thing you want for anything has to ordered they dont want to be stuck with unsold inventory Harley is already calling my ten year old c v o obsolete i am already waiting two weeks for a simple switch and it cost $350,00 dollars
@hijodelantorchanunya1572 that's where I differ from "the average person" as I do all the work on my bikes be it servicing or rebuilds. When I could get genuine parts I always used them and as they dried up I would use VTwin or similar. If H-D started to make parts again for there older machines I would buy from them. It's all down to personal preference but for me I will always buy the genuine part first for my bikes and cars but if not available I will buy aftermarket. Again it's down to personal preference if you go to a dealer or independent repairer if you can't or won't work on your own machines. I remember buying an aftermarket steering pump for my Transit, 5 of them in a row failed within hours or days of fitting. When I complained about the junk this supplier was selling me I was then told they do supply a better quality pump but as folk normally go for the cheap one they don't normally offer it. Once I installed the dearer pump it worked perfectly and is still working.
Isn’t the current situation resulting from the hype for motorcycles that popped up during covid when soo many motorcycles have been sold, and now the market is totally saturated of motorcycles on the second hand market, plus manufacturers (including new low cost ones) producing way too many motorcycles... there are currently so much more sellers than buyers, we know what happens then.... KTM had 130.000 motorcycles not sold.... how the hell have they been producing so blindly...?
lots of used bikes in the market is good for us you can buy the bike you like for alot less money at the time i bought my cvo used with 16.000km and two years old i paid $34,000 instead of $55,000 for a brand new one and the new 2025 cvo has a list of 65,000 plus fees and taxes to pay 70,000 for any bike is insane!!! MR ZEITZ wants to sell less bikes for more money and thats a bad plan
I ride a honda shadow myself. about 52K miles on it, still riding strong like the day I bought it new at around $8K. Over the last 4 years I saw the increase just in the service labor rate at the dealership jump from $75-$145/hr. for a service that takes about 5 hours, barring any unexpected problems, that's a lot of money just in the service labor cost not to mention parts (and those currently are still fairly affordable. . .for honda's anyway). And with the decrease in tech experience and quality of service (leaving bolts unfastened, tubes disconnected, etc) it's forced me to learn how to maintain and service my own bike just out of my own safety concerns. As more people revert back to doing not only the maintenance on their rides with the intention of keeping them for longer and keeping them running, it's also an attempt to prevent from having to buy a brand new bike, especially since most shops won't service bikes past 10 years old. The amount of money i'm saving and the experience i'm gaining in knowledge of my own bike, I literally can afford to pay for any mistakes i make in learning, and not make them again.
As an older millennial I see a lot of Royal Enfields, Triumphs, the Husky ‘Pilen bikes, getting my peers into biking. The more affordable the better. But, honestly, drivers are so distracted, in extremely insulated cars; Many are giving up on biking.
Yes, I am one of them not to buy a New HD Bike since the one I have does the job. New bike are very expensive, smaller bikes are horrible and small fuel tank, the larger bikes are like an Abram Tank in Traffic / City
Harley davidson lost my respect when a branch closed down, leaving me 300 pounds down and no parts. Love the motorcycles, but Harley davidson just doesn't care about their customers 👍🏻😎
If Harley's bikes performed commensurate with their prices, they would sell. But they don't, not even close. In the meantime Ducati and MV Agusta are selling every premium high-performance bike they can build.
Things are going very well for the HD CEO : Harley-Davidson Inc. chairman, president and CEO Jochen Zeitz more than doubled his reported compensation to $43.3 million in 2022, but $32 million of that is the accounting value for stock awards that depend on the company achieving share-price thresholds in future years.
I bought a harley in 1997 and still run it. The only thing that's ever gone wrong was the gear change spring broke a long time back. Went to the dealership and bought a new spring for around £4.50 and did the fix with a maintenance manual and the help of a friend who was good at mechanics .That spring was probably the cheapest thing in the shop 😅
Would love to know what the CEO and 9 Board members make in combined salaries. Staggering. After they ruin the company they just move on with their golden parachutes and ruin another brand. Refusing to work on product that is 10 years old (planned obsolesents) doesnt help.
Look at it like this: why would you sell your Harley, which you've probably spent a large amount of money on to get it running reliable, and buy a new Harley, when the only progression Harley seems to have made is in hitching their prices. It would mean shelling out a lot of money for a bike that you then have to shell out even more money on to get it running reliable. For Harley owners it makes far more sense to stick with your present bike and as said in the video: new buyers simply can't afford a new Harley.
Explain shelling money out to make the bike reliable? My 3 stock Harley's. Have been very reliable.And I haven't shelled any money out unless I wanted to put options on the bike. So please explain to me what you're talking about, having to shell money out to make it reliable?
Another person who hasn't owned a Harley Davidson, (I always include Mr Davidson,) and who probably doesn't even ride spewing out the same old crap. "They're unreliable" is a bunch of bull. The three I've owned before and my current '07 Road King have been 100% reliable. If you don't ride, you don't know.
Indian and Triumph have better retro appeal, and Honda for break-new-ground cruisers and touring. Moto Guzzi and Yamaha dabbling in both retro and new. Plus weird one-offs that peel people away from absolute brand loyalty like the Ducati Diavel. Meanwhile ADV and sports bikes continue to flow out the doors of dealerships. I mean, in the end the problem is that Harley is like fine china and cable TV. It's not bad. It just has an appeal skewed toward people who were alive to remember the heyday and cultural relevance, plus random younger folk with nostalgia for a time before they were born. Every five years or so they push to skew younger, but it's had limited success. It's not a motorcycle problem at all. It's a long term generational identity issue that all companies with a strong brand eventually faces if they last long enough. Who knows? Vinyl records are making a comeback. Stuff either exits off the stage of relevance or finds a new moment in the spotlight.
Good comment. Don't you mean to say one-OF-a-kind or one OF one, NOT one-OFF target? Just pointing that extra F out so you can correct your 1st paragraph before it's too late!
Well said! Especially at appr. 7:00 where You says "...stick with what we got"! That's what matters in the Harley world nowadays. My 2010 Fatboy have taken me through most of Europe and will continue doing so. If repair is called for...well just do it. But Harley forever stands for me.
Aloha I bought my first HOG shinning shoes at the airport! That was in 1965. I am 74 and still ride a Hog,but nit a new one. I can not dish out the $40K price tag for a product made in another country! The dealers will ,not work on older bikes because they want to sell you new bike. I still ride a Hog but nit a new one. God bless and merry Christmas 🎄
Fair comments , sign of the times , all of my 5 HDS have all been from within the used market , I'd never buy new and this won't change. As an aside I've never had a problem with the used ones I've bought and sold , but back to the point , the market is collapsing. Also up here, I saw recently the Indian dealer in Edinburgh ( Saltire ) has also gone under so it's across the board. Bad times .
Harley prices are way too expensive. I end up buying a BMW R18. In fact two of them because I got $3.5k discount on one and 4K off on the other one. One is Roctane and the other 100 year edition. Plus 0%APR. My son wanted to get a new Harley sportster S, but couldn’t even negotiate $1k off and APR was 9% so he went and bought a BMW R12 NineT scrambler with 0% APR and was able to save $6.5k off only because it was a demo bike with 300 miles on it. We both realized how amazing these BMW machines are and absolutely not going back to the Harley brand. Love love love my BMW bikes.
Dealer charges 500. For new rear tire and tube,2 months out of warranty voltage regulator needed replacement 1 hour to diagnosis and another hour to install,took me 4 minutes to replace and aftermarket part was half the price,terrible service and ridiculous prices for. Everything, im done
A number of Harley Davidson dealers have gone under by me. And I'm in the Chicago market. A huge market for just about anything. None of them, not one, offered a sale on their motorcycles. Some didn't announce that they were going under, until the very last day. Help a customer out? Ain't happening. The remaining dealers got their stock. Harley Davidson can go under for all i care. They don't care about their customers. Karma is real.
We can get a sub 1000 cc really nice bikes for around 10 - 12k€ new (Triumph, Kawasaki, etc). If HD comes and kills the only bike that was close enough, then I just scratch them off the list. The 883 was always cool - somehow they failed to make enough money with them. Apparently RE is working on 750 engine bikes. Now I don't expect them to be announced anytime soon, but they keep moving up the ladder and will attract more and more customers.
I currently have a 2008 fxcwc in perfect condition. it's an everyday rider. I have even rode it back and forth from Gulfport ms to Clearwater fl 3 times since Halloween. I love the bike my wife bought for my birthday in March 2024. I have upgraded a lot of parts and performance and have not once used a Harley Davidson part. I have actually bought some Harley boots and a couple of jackets. But, there are too many part options that are better and less expensive than HD parts. Plus I do all my own wrenching. I can not pay a man to do something that i can do. The only thing I have a service location do is mount and balance tires. I do use the new HD heavy gear fluid in my primary. But amsoil in engine and amsoil vtwin transmission fluid in transmission. I will never use any other oil. I had some top end noise using everything, and then using vtwin 20/50 amsoil, it vanished in less than 100 miles
65 yo American 🇺🇸 Bought my 1st H-D in 1981 . Last Harley - Davidson in 2005 . Love my Twin Cam 88 Road King 🥰 . Don’t want and don’t need a new motorcycle . H-D has lost its way . I’m riding my beloved Road 👑 King into the dust bin of history 🪦 😵
I decided to buy a 1996 Dyna, was looking at later models,, however , my thinking led me to look at old Evo’s. While I could think of at least 20 other bikes that would beat it in every way, I absolutely love this thing,, I can highly recommend them, as long as you like vibration, carburation, doing your own maintenance, average handling(better than I thought it would be) and enough grunt to enjoy,, then I truly have come to believe them to be a good bike. Cheap too. So I’m hoping they do develop a parts centred focus. Or perhaps,, building these old lumps of Evo again??? Surely they’d be cheap to build?? Though exhaust emissions may be a challenge. ??
The easy thing to do... make a deal with Royal Enfield, to sell those parts and bikes at HD dealerships in the USA (for example). It would save the dealerships, and get young riders around their "dream bikes". As for HD building bikes... it's probably better for them to sell each bike "custom" for those that can afford them.
I have a 1999 FXDL. Obsolete parts are getting more common. Some of the outsourced imperial measurements have been lost in translation. 0.75mm isn't 0.025". Wouldn't recommend it to anyone but things really are different on an older Harley. No plans on going to efi.
There is a huge market for small and mid size bikes. Many do not want to slug around on a 800+ pound motorcycle. Harley is missing out on the majority of motorcycle riders. I got caught up in the fad and rode Harley for many years. What irritated me was when I went to the Harley dealer to get OEM replacement parts. They are sold at a very steep price. The package the parts are in says Harley Davidson in large print, and made in China in very small print. You do realize those cheap low quality parts are what Harley used to build the bike in the first place. You can get the exact part sold under a aftermarket brand for often half the price. This is my frustration with Harley Davidson. I ride a BMW now.
Always loved Harleys, thought I'd own one someday . . . but I don't want to slug around on an 800 pound bike that handles and stops not very well. I bought a MT-09 and love the bike. It's a 420 pound traffic master. Handles and stops with precision . . .
You could swap out the name “Harley Davidson” with so many other brands right now and still have for the most part an accurate relevant rant. “KTM”, “Jaguar”, “Nissan”, “Stelantis” all are currently very usable for this rant. So many others will soon be in the limelight… Not unique to HD… Customers and companies who increased their debt during low interest rates are all suffering with high inflation and interest rates. Nothing new, just the scope.
They’re not actually that expensive when you realize how much they were in the 90’s based on income. In 1995 a Dyna convertible sold for $10,991.00 before tax and based on inflation calculator that’s around $22,765.51 in today’s money. Also the 95 Dyna came with the Evolution 80inch v-twin which made around which made around 50 bhp and 65 lbs Now technology and performance is pretty good You can get these bikes for equal or less $22,765.51 Softail Standard $14,999 Street Bob $16,999 Low Rider s $19,999 Low Rider st $23,399 All of these bikes make way more power and if you buy the cheaper bike and can it you will have almost tripled the power of the original. If you think of value and depreciation I would also buy Harley 1995 dynas with decent miles still go for $5-$10k which means in 30 years at a minimum that Bike has held 50% of its value.. I think you average person doesn’t ride in general and most people don’t have disposable income.. the average person buys a Honda Grom.. or a Royal Enfield.. because they are throw away bikes.
I spent the first half of September on holiday in Los Angeles and, of course, did all the usual touristy things including Hollywood Boulevard. The Hollywood Harley-Davidson dealership is located opposite the Chinese Theatre. It doesn't sell bikes, only apparel and other branded merch. If you want a t-shirt or a leather jacket or a bandana, you're spoilt for choice but if you want an actual motorcycle, you're out of luck. I know that there are several Harley dealerships in LA and the surrounding area that do sell bikes, including Laidlaw's which I used to follow on RUclips back about 7-8 years ago, however things aren't rosy even in So Cal. Los Angeles Harley-Davidson, located in Fullerton, closed its doors for good just six weeks ago on 31st October. The problem is that Harleys aren't products built or aimed at the motorcyclist market any more and haven't been for decades. They're Veblen goods like Rolex watches or Ferraris and Lambos; look at me goods like designer handbags; bling on wheels with a touch of outlaw biker menace; lifestyle products for chavs and yuppies who want to shove their wealth in your face. Just look at the people who go to Sturgis and Daytona, their biggest annual rallies.
I just have a feeling that a lot of companies are in trouble not just H.D. artic cat stopped skidoos, bombardier has to get help from their government. A lot of food chains closing down and retail stores. The boom is over we all over the world are being squeezed for all we have. The writing is on the wall!
This means that existing Harley Davidsons will rise up in their worth, I have a beautiful 2003 Heritage Softail Classic, Black & silver 100th anniversary model, I already see these '03 anniversary models going up! $$$
That’s simply stupid. Their primary value is in their brand recognition and the community they produce. It allows them to sell bikes at a premium. No one cares about individual parts.
In 2007 I did buy a Electra Ultra Screaming Eagle new. It was a complete piece of junk. Broke down on the highway before even reaching 10.000 km, cylinders leaking oil. Several times just refused to start. The after sales completely useless. I will never ever own a Harley Davidson again. Never!
I think you are on the right path. They are just too expensive. I think for years the company has had the same customers over and over again every year or two. Used bike prices had dropped. They have 24 models on the floor with less that 500 miles on it for 8k less than new. Those customers can't afford to come back. Not yet anyway.
I live in Atlantic Canada(New Brunswick) We had a Harley Dealership in the Miramichi for decades, now closed. Another one in Moncton, 'Toys For Big Boys' also around for almost 50 years. Toys also sells Honda and KTM. They bought land next to their dealership a few years ago for expansion, but from what I understand, Harley Davidson demanded a separate Dealership for its Bikes. The owner was basically forced to spend millions to open another dealership, as per Harley Davidson specs or lose his dealership. I believe this is the reason many small Dealerships, that also sold other brands, are being forced to shut down unless they spend huge amounts of money on new and separate Dealerships?
in the US there is a price adder for bikes going back to the 80's from $4000-6000. I can go to a favored independent dealership and get it for significantly less with a full mechanic staff. Saw this on an 90's Electraglide, but when going to independent shops the price was up to 2.5X less for similar mileage.
West Coast HD Glasgow seem to be rushed off its feet. There is always events on throughout the year. During biking season the bike nights are always mobbed. Why?... because its for everyone regardless of what type of bike you are riding. If you alienate people what do you expect when your business goes bust. Service dept are brilliant. Love the loyalty scheme which allows you to build up your points so you can then use them to buy things in the clothing and merch dept. I just bought a new helmet with my loyalty points as I had my 2 bikes in for upgrades and service. Bike sales wise, if you want a bike there you'd better be quick. By the time you decide that's the bike you want, its usually gone in about 5 mins, particularly over the weekend. New bike sales don't seem to be an issue. Chap came in and traded his freewheeler trike and bought the 40k tri glide. People seem to come from all over the world. Another guy came all the way over from the states just so he could have a West Coast t-shirt! Personally I have been treated with dignity and respect. Being disabled that means a lot to me. Prices for servicing ect, seem to level peg with everyone else. Actually working out cheaper than other places. Doesn't seem to matter what bike you are riding everyone's welcome at any time.
At 20 years old, I bought a brand new Electroglide, on a landscapers pay. This was 1980. If they can make their bikes that affordable again, they can be saved. Otherwise, there aren't enough doctor and lawyer weekend warriors to buy their ridiculously expensive bikes. The dealership that I worked at 30 years ago just closed its doors this past summer. Sad.
I think I can add some light here. The economy is squeezing many people most middle-class people and working-class people which is 80% of those who still work are literally having a hard time filling their trucks with 100.00 tank of diesel or gasoline their SUV with a $50 or $70 tank full. Not to mention groceries insanely High insurance etc. We just literally don't have enough room for an optional 20 or 30,000 toy, which to everybody but a daily commuter a motorcycle is usually a fancy toy or perhaps a summertime passion. The only people I know well healed enough to spend 20 or 30 grand on a fancy Harley or other high-end motorcycle are retirees who have a strong investment portfolio I eat plenty of money and are not price-sensitive problem is every one of them I know is 60 plus years old and they're not beginning writing and if they're already a motorcycle rider they already have motorcycles in their garage maybe several of them and the idea of them being somehow attracted to a garish full dress highly loaded and also questionably reliable boutique motorcycle is a fantasy they're just literally are not enough of those people around to sell motorcycles to. Our local Harley dealer here in East Texas and every city above 10,000 people has a Harley dealer most of them do have two dozen three dozen bikes out front which they probably sell very few of perhaps a couple of weeks in this very challenged economy. I'm a blue collar business owner and have to watch my savings and spending and I bought a used Suzuki V-Strom motorcycle in perfect condition ironically it was a trade-in at a Harley dealer and I got it out the door from the man who bought it wholesale from the Harley dealer for 3600 I've been riding it every single day just about for 2 years now and it's in perfect running order and checks all my boxes for literally one fourth of the cheapest Harley or maybe 1/8 of a fancy Harley. Also Harley has painted themselves into the corner by only offering cruisers they literally have nothing to offer the dirt bike crowd the sportbike crowd or the ATV crowd which means they are super deep in only one segment of the market and frankly that's a market is aficionados are dying more and more everyday or getting so decrepit and with old age they cannot ride any longer !
I'm not surprised at all this. I test rode an 1100 Sportser about 12 yrs ago at Albury NS W,Australia. I asked what my Kawasaki 900 was worth as trade in and was told, we don't trade in, sell your own. Ok see later..I am nearly 80 yrs and haver never met a car or bike dealer that didn't do trade ins....
I had a conversation with one of the H-D UK marketing team at Motorcycle Live about my concern regarding dealerships closing and broached the idea of them introducing smaller affordable bikes. I was somewhat surprised by the response: "Ferrari don't do that" so you can see that H-D see themselves as a premium brand and feel that they'll survive, time will tell.
A ole mate of mine had a BMW K75 that needed some work done to it , so he took it into probably one of the oldest BMW DEALERS in AUSTRALIA to be looked at . The service manager said to him , no use bringing that bike here for repairs mate , its older than all of the technicians , and they wouldn't know where to start , you will have to take it to an old school BMW MECHANIC , he just laughed at them .
Have owned 7 harleys,last was 22 heritage 114 bought new for 25,000,added 4000. In extras,after two years and 7000 miles was told by dealer my bike is worth 11,000. With maintenance I spent 10,000 per year to own,traded for new honda,will never buy harley again.
You are so right, stopping having a cheaper models is ridiculous and they could make an awesome single cylinder lightweight Harley out of a V twin engine making it a very lightweight speedster for around towns and traffic. HD started off making very good lightweight motorcycles and turned into a heavy overweight and not monetising with the times with modern designs, etc. Dealerships cannot survive just having stock on the floor that’s not moving because people are not interested or do not have the money to purchase. Is far more reliable bikes available on the market from other brands with a lighter weight and easier to handle around cities? HD are awesome long long straight roads and that’s about it .
I worked at the Milwaukee plant installation putting in conveyor line. A friend of mine had to have his H.D. motor rebuild 3 timès. Finally said enough is enough and has it for sale! Want one?
As a Harley Ultra Limited owner I took a ride on a Goldwing, which costs roughly the same. I also took a ride on an Indian, which also costs roughly the same. Both bikes were so superior to my HD in all respects that I’ve now sold my HD and, next spring, will buy either the Goldwing or the Indian. I haven’t made my mind up yet which one… but never again a Harley.
@ Hey my friend, we’re all motorcyclists here, we all appreciate the machines and the experience we share. I keep two bikes in my garage and I change one of them each year. Generally I try a different manufacturer’s model each time. I’ve done this for more than thirty years and never, for instance, sell a Honda and buy another Honda, though I have owned many Hondas over that time. As my career and life experience have developed I eventually found myself able to afford a New Harley UL and if I am honest, I have been very much disappointed with the experience. They have fallen well behind the market with their engineering. So, I’ve just sold my Harley and I’ll probably buy a Honda next, though I am seriously considering a Voge, which is a model I’ve never owned before. Why one earth do you find this upsetting? This is a hobby, it’s not life or death!
Harley Davidson is packaged deal! Buy your bike and get those parts!!! Yup stay tuned! Harley has always been the most customizable bike in history! Car dealerships buying them up and some changes suck!
All my friends are buying e-bikes for $1500 - $3000, and everyone purchased was ridden , and now broken , and not running ! All my friends have had to order parts and still waiting! So much for global products and parts !!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
No one is going to buy parts from H-D when there are so many aftermarket parts suppliers manufacturing superior parts to OE LIND Harley-Davidson in Reading closes and 1HD rises out of their ashes 3 miles down the road Support your local independent 👍
Air cooled sportster should've gotten a head cooled version like the new M8 along with the high performance Buell designed internals. High torque engines with great sounds rule. Design water cooled heads that can be retrofitted. Makes sense to me
I totally agree with the comment that HD needs to sell a different type of motorcycles that are affordable by those that want a Harley for sure. Any true Harley fan should be able to understand that in order for HD to stay in the market needs to sell bikes period. If they can't sell bikes they will as we are seeing now losing tons of money which is closing dealerships and before too long the company as well possibly. One of HD's biggest mistake I feel was the announcement of the Bronx then last second scrap it which was crazy because so many people were wanting to see it and probably buy it. The other thing that's starting to affect HD in a negative way is the dealership closings because that is a buying factor for a lot of riders as to how far or short of a distance there is if there was issues or for services to be done on the bikes. I know for me returning from Strugis and having the engine having issues in the middle of south dakota I had to decide which way to go which was continue to the next dealer because the only two closest dealerships were about the same distance from where I was and I was out of the range for free towing to the dealership so I went towards the one closest to my fathers place. So every move they keep doing right now they may think is saving them money may in fact be costing them even more in the long run instead. good video though over all and crazy that there's been so many dealers there in the UK closing. I know the riders in the Atlanta,GA area just lost another dealership last weekend which now really limits their options for service and repair issues.
Harley tried a budget with the 500 cc model and it never sold. The 2025 Street Bob with the 117 engine may be there savior. I also like the Indian Scout 60. Harley Financing should offer low interest rates for all. Their insurance company is half of other companies. Discount the additional products.
This is interesting what you say about dealers closing down . In Melbourne Australia there is 4 Harley Dealers . 3 are owned by one company that owns dealerships of every other brand . Harley management have made bad decissions on what bikes they promote and support . In 2019 I brought my first New Harley a Softail Slim did 97000kms on that bike with only one gearbox problem that dealership tried to blame me for when it was a well known for. Was fixed under warranty but made me buy my next new Harley at a dealership owned bya different company . A 2023 Nightster Special great bike to ride but Harley Davidson Australia DO NOT PROMOTE or SUPPORT this motorcycle . This bike has been off the road now for 10 weeks over a Electicial problem as they keep no parts in Australia for this bike it could take 6 weeks to get a BCM . they are not even sure thar is the problem . This year I brought a 23.5 CVO Roadglide secondhand from the first Dealership after a change of Management and half the staff at the shop . the CVO with the 121VVT is a awesome bike . The Melbourne Dealerships are all doing well . I know of many people buying the new model touring bikes . You are correct that Harley Davidson need to Listen and build bikes people need and want . They Finally Built the new Touring model the way customers have wanted them for years . The Bronx was a missed opportunity . Here is a Bike I think they should have built instead of the X series of Bikes . A 500cc or 660cc version on the base model Nightster would be a great bike to attact new rides to the brand . Harley Davidson CEO needs to go .
With out extended loans no one would be able to buy most bikes and nearly all cars. It might be my computer but it looks like it’s so cold in your office that we can see your breath.
I think your analysis is spot on. The unresponsiveness of HD leadership to customer complaints about criminal practices by some dealerships going back at least five years is a clear predictor that HD is doomed. It takes a real gaggle of incompetent morons to accomplish the destruction of a company whose main product essentially sells itself. Keep up the good work. I look forward to your videos everyday.👍
Yes, whatever you think of 'the Harley thing', it will nonetheless be a loss to have such a long-standing brand disappear. Not a good sign for the future of motorcycling. I went for an organised ride recently, here in rural South Australia, with about ten others, and H D were the most popular brand represented. But none of them were very recent models - the newest looking one was actually a Kawasaki which looked almost more like a Harley Electra Glide than an actual Harley! Most of the owners, like me, were 'older', and I suspect represented the group you referred to who are 'keeping their older models'. I guess if your offerings are 'steeped in history and tradition', there is less incentive to upgrade to a later model. The emission laws are constantly moving along, and of course these make it harder for these earlier style engines to survive. Air-cooled engines are dying out in the face of these laws, and becoming harder to get passed. Fuel efficiency, emissions and noise issues harder to overcome with the earlier technology. The other thing, aside from the economic difficulties so many nations are facing (in the setting of post-COVID inflation) is the proliferation of alternative makes offering the older-style bikes, like the Triumphs, Royal Enfields and the like. These are what the girls are riding, instead of a Sportster, while their partners keep their older model 'big bore' Harley. So I guess it's a function of emission laws, the type of bikes Harley sell, economic difficulties, and the ageing demographic that buy these things. And yes - the buy-in cost of joining the Harley owners... The arrival of cheaper alternatives from China and India are eating into that market (and their quality is improving while the price remains low) as is the move by many riders (me too) over to adventure-style bikes, as more seek their riding solitude on dirt roads, away from traffic, trucks, police, etc. Yes, Harley offers their Pan-American in that market, but many seek something a bit smaller and lighter as they age. More Transalps and CFMotos showing up at our Sunday coffee gatherings, whereas I have never seen a Pan American in real life. But it is concerning that two brands - KTM and Harley - seem to be falling over at the same time.
i have 6 dealerships with in 200 km of my house but who knows how long they might be around my local dealer ship is very large full of new bikes and merch and have been around for over 80 years and they seem to survive but the prices are getting out of reach
I'm 62 and riding from 16 years - the evolution of motorcycling has evolved from affordable practical functional transport (esp if living in a big city) to expensive toys - toys used for different "fun" activities from cafe type riding to adventure to weekend rides - but with toys there is only so much surplus money at whatever age group - sadly with the cost of living crisis - high inflation + the serious additional costs of obtaining a motorcycle licence over a car licence + higher insurance costs for motorcycles etc the toy is becoming ever more expensive - here Royal Enfield have brilliantly positioned themselves at a good price point + revamped their styles to accommodate various tastes from sport to cruiser to scrambler etc - a clever marketing marriage between great price + style with overall reasonable quality/finishes - the winner here is a motorcycle company which sees this marketing opportunity - CF Moto is another success - people still buy toys - find the sweet spot between price/toy appeal and your motorcycle will sell against the ever changing economic vicissitudes
I’m a 77yr old mechanic / rider in St Louis MO USA with a 2011 Heratige Softail Classic and 2009/ 1200 Custom Sporster. I got rid of my Heratige Softail Classic and kept the Sporster. I bought a Royal Enfield Super Meteor 650 and couldn’t be happier. Harley has gone the way of Boeing, profit first screw the rest of us. PS an oil and filter change heir at a dealer cost $238.00 dollars, what a F ing ripoff.
They can’t sell the volume that they are currently geared to build. It’s going to take them time to reset the factories to a lower volume. One thing they counted on for sales was selling/financing bikes that people couldn’t afford. There loan defaults are outta control. Jocelyn Zeitz set a high price point on the bikes before slimming down the factory production.
They (dealerships) seem to be doing fine in both cz and es. They were never too many to begin with anyway. That said… I keep saying the same thing: they gotta give the “street bob - softail standard” treatment to all models (a not blacked out, 107, affordable version of everything ). Not trying to to become more premium. People are short of money. It ain’t rocket science 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe if Harley Davidson made retro bikes, like Royal Enfield, I think people would be more interested. The bikes they make these days look like they came out of a Cornflakes packet.
Brands Like CF Moto is crushing Harley Davidson also people are moving to dual sport and similar machines. Harley is so inflexible the old Customer are getting older and the brand does not attract the younger buyer. I ride an Indian Scout and just purchased a CF Moto as well to go back to some off road riding at 65 it makes sense for me.
December 2024 was our biggest sales month for over a year with 25 new bikes sold and delivered and 22 used bikes sold and delivered so don’t know what’s happening overseas
Successful companies change with the times. The most successful anticipate trends and adjust strategy to outdo competitors. We'll find out soon enough if Harley Davidson is that sort of company.
I still dig riding my LRS 117. Let HD become a parts co. IDC. One comment said over 30k for a bike is nuts, but 110k for a pieced together so called ford pickup is ok. Whatever makes you happy. :49, maybe you should turn the heater up. A bit chilly in there.
I still recall the prior CEO Levatich who had the “More roads to Harley” strategy to expand into more markets with bikes at a lower price point. And he was pretty much ousted… Sure they made purists happy in the short term, but I feel it was a missed opportunity for growth…
HD & Indian aim at a certain customer base due to the current economy this has slowed down dramatically. Sales worldwide are still increasing as a Whole but well below the predicted sales targets. Areas of the World are still successful in this market. Several issues compounded have caused a problem with sales, price, design, forward planning from the factory and quality of service. For a high end brand a lot of dealers fall short of that service experience but I think that is just the way things are in the UK in general. The main problem is the cost of insurance for new riders the average age of riders has gone from 42 to 54. I feel America will start recovering with the new President but I fear here we are about to see more closures of businesses than ever before.
I read somewhere Suzuki is going to drop dealerships and have "showrooms" and you can view but order online ,not sure about servicing ,maybe contractors? times are changing
Like many brands, HD are mostly bought by old blokes, many of whom are getting too old to ride a big, heavy bike, or who are passing away. I never see many young people riding (or being able to afford) HD bikes. I think the whole motorcycle industry is in for a tough time over the next decade or so.
When I brand starts selling bikes the wrong side of 30 grand there loosing touch with reality
I would say the wrong side of 20k fella bikes have gotten absolutely stupid money
But they have nice Fit and Finish .. and the sound cool .
Quality and dealer service are a bigger issue
The wrong side of $15 grand.
Too much for a tractor 😅
dropping the air cooled sportster was crazy.
It was too expensive
They can't sell there cheapest bikes so lets cancel the cheap ones and there so stupid they will buy the higher priced ones. DUH, That's how you lose half your customers in 10 years. And you give your self a raise for having dumb ideas!
Emissions.....the weapon the elite is using to stop our freedon and shut down car and motorcycle production. Working great so far...
The Motor company never missed an opportunity to produce special and anniversary editions for the Sportster and big twin. Yet they missed an opportunity to market the a 1957 styled Sportster which had the same styling as a big twin. They knew it could sell but the big twin sales would have been sacrificed. Not being in the “look what I got” crowd I still ride my 2003 Sportster.
Right! Like what will women ride now? 😂
Harley has loss touch with reality. Harley continues to produce high price bikes that are not selling, sales are slow, Harley won't reduce prices and make basic bikes that cost less. When a company ignores reality, doesn't change and adapt, it fails, it will eventually go out of business.
...in 2025 without changes at the top.
Just like car and trucks!!
Indian is a better bike! Chieftain Dark Horse!
Dudley Perkins H-D in San Francisco recently closed after being in business over 100 years. Real sad
Not enough Business,, A Terrible Neighborhood or HD was demanding they spend a pile of money on their Building and displays.
Maybe they'll turn it into a Japanese bike dealer so they actually sell bikes. Also sell bikes people want and can afford. We can only hope.
Time for Harley to bow out and make room for the motorcycle manufacturers that want to innovate and take the next step forward.
@@cwag2159 Ghale of Gal's HD gave up her HD Dealership. Now she sells Side by sides.. 4 wheelers Jet Skis ect maybe Japanese motorcycles. Plus she sells and Services Used HD's. Keep HD honest. I hope that Independent shops and Dealers can sell aftermarket parts and do service for a lower price.
I bought my first and last Harley from them.with 1200 miles on it, the bike puked. Dudley Perkins treated me like shit, and Harley wouldn't stand by their bike. Not so sad to see them go under.
You are spot on. Another reason why dealers are closing is because the HDMC has required the larger dealers to conform (upgrade) their stores to the new corporate layout/design. I heard on the grapevine that one dealer said that to recoup the cost of doing so was the equivalent of his next 10 years of net profits. Of course, this assumes that he continues to make profits. HDMC position in this regard is that if you want to continue being a dealer, then you have to comply with the new corporate store layout. Apparently, smaller regional dealerships do not have to comply. One thing is for sure, it's not a great state of affairs that we are talking about this stuff (and have been for a while now) instead of being excited about the new models and how great the company is doing. HDMC only has itself to blame. Their execs are highly paid but they can't see the light, can't read the room, won't eat humble pie admitting their shortsightedness, and won't adopt change in business model to one that works, aka, Triumph, CFMoto, Royal Enfield, BMW and provide a range of motorcycles including ones at reasonable (in the eyes of the consumer) prices. Imagine buying a bike that is very good in all departments that you don't have to upgrade anything, imagine that this bike sells in the thousands in every country with skyrocketing demand. Folks are ordering them because everyone that arrives at the store is already presold - yes, you are imagining the CFMoto 450MT. Where is Harley? well it's got the 500X but instead of reading the market, released it in road format when the market was wanting an Adv bike format and then, didn't make it available in most of its markets. So, sales of the 450MT have gone and continue to go through the roof, whereas sales of the 500X are not.
HD have been getting dealer upgrades as long as I've been riding HD - since 88 - they lost my new bike business however a long time ago and i went with another US retro brand
Nothing new! Been doing this for years and years!!!!!
I could care less mine will turn 20 years old in a few years . They won't work on it after that. They never have any parts. Everything has to be ordered. So it's a no-brainer since I have wait for everything. It would be stupid to buy a original harley part. Which is twice as much for same part that as a rule is made better than a original for half the cost.
The loser at the top called Harley Davidson "a boutique brand". It is not that they can't manufacture and sell bikes for the common man it is that they won't. They lost touch with reality from bad decisions that keep on giving.
It's a Cult Brand,, you have to be willing to pay way more than they are worth .
the common man is the boomer, people who are the richest generation in history in the west. Now the boomers are getting too old, the younger generation like millennials have less than half the money their parents did. They just priced accordingly, and now the landscape has changed as they've been too slow to adapt
@@chrispekel5709 First Generation to have a lower Standard of Living than their Parents. You can thank the Federal
Jockstrap Zeitz probably doesn’t know what food, utilities and rent costs and just assumed everyone has four mansions and a $50k motorcycle is chump change. He is probably the poorest one in his secret circle with a net worth of $28m.
Probably the next JAAAAAG...
Harley also has a stupid policy of if your bike is older than ten years old they don not want to deal with you and by doing this they are turning away alot of buisness and loyal customers that will now have to go some where else i paid 40,000 for my cvo i love the bike its in great shape and have no desire to buy a new one for 60,000 but when they tell you your bike is obsolete after ten years thats a hard thing to swallow i can go to my local honda dealer and still get parts for 1983 cr 480
obsolete even though they're pretty much exactly the same
And there's the rub...you can't reposition H-D to become a parts vendor because of their established practices of not carrying parts or providing service for motorcycles over ten years old. If no one is buying new models and they won't provide service/inventory for older models, then what parts would they sell?!
Same thing for my 1999 shadow ACE. Every time I need something replaced it’s either in stock or will be in a couple days. No problems.
This is not just a HD thing. All motorcycle dealers do this. You can still get the parts but they will not work on them.
The main problem is the “mechanics” they have in a dealership. They don’t know how to actually fix a bike, they just know how to replace parts.
@ false. One of my bikes is a 1999 and my Honda dealer works on it no problem
Inflation, printing money, and governments living large lifestyles off of taxpayers has the world going into a depression .
I live in East Anglia, Lind Harley Davidson was my local dealer until it closed it's doors about a year ago. To me it was no loss, they kept nothing in stock, parts wise, for my 2007 Dyna. I only visited the place once, for an 'open day' that they'd advertised, I wasn't exactly made welcome, car park full of 1 or 2 year old Road and Street Glides with the owners decked out in HD branded gear. I felt that unless you were interested in dropping £50k on a new CVO or similar the dealership weren't interested in engaging with you. I'll stick with my old Dyna and buy my parts from independent suppliers!
I love that the wealthier people buy them, barely ride them and then sell them at a fraction of the MSRP with accessories.
I've done a little experiment with Facebook Marketplace and have been following sales of HD motorcycles. So many are with very low miles and not selling at all. Some postings are over a year old! It's plain to see that interest in HDs has declined drastically. 😢
@Gordies-World it's sad that even the classics (once restored and chopped) are at the same price as a 2017 and even close to the 2021s, most between 4-9k
@@Gordies-World People don't want to sell their HD for less than they owe on it.
Jeaulosy eh????
The sad part is that once upon a time HD was the working man's bike. Today they're only for the wealthy.
They are going through a tunnel I call reality. The motorcyclist as we knew them are mostly aging out , no new riders. 🏍
"All roads lead to Harley" had promise, with smaller bikes for younger riders, etc., but this woke German CEO cancelled that and refocused on high profit dad baggers with expensive accessories. I got an Indian Chief instead.
Exactly!! I started with a Suzuki Hayabusa 17 years ago now I ride a Street Glide. But young guys don't ride crotch rockets anymore, so there is no one to take over the mantle and start riding HD motorcycles. This is what this younger generation don't understand, you can't spend your money on drugs and video games and buy motorcycle parts, or make motorcycle payments. Its either one or the other.
@@Toplessghost97 you started on a hayabusa? Lmao. Jesus. I went straight for a low rider S as my first Bike in 2021 and still have it. My buddy recently got a vagina, and a Canadian friend. Also moved into Austin had expressed interest about Harley and Indian.
and what will happen if all the new bikes are electric and they shut down the gas harley built an electric bike called the live wire and they could not give them away and also asked 40,000 dollars and the buyers said no
cause they don't produce products that appeal to the younger riders, which in return allowed the market to open up and Indian started producing motorcycles again.
I’m 56 and if I bought a new Harley it would be the third most expensive purchase in my life!
I am age 73. In 2003 I bought the very lowest priced new Harley that I could buy, a black Sportster XLH883. At the time it was the 3rd most expensive thing I had ever purchased. The first 2 were the mobile home we bought 1 year after we were first married and then the house that we built to rid ourselves of the mobile home. The Sportster was more costly than any car I had ever owned and now at this time I do have a car that cost about $1000 more than the Sportster was priced at. That Sportster price was $6930 with tax and tags. It has been a great purchase and now has 76,000 miles on it. Big Twins? I am not so certain that they are as good bikes as is the Sportster. So, if you buy a Harley, go for the lower end of the price range or go used.
@@ironcast My 1979 Z-28 Camaro was $7,190.00 on the road my 2016 Yamaha FZ-07 was $7,400.00 This I paid more for a 400# Motorcycle than I paid for a 3,500# car with a V-8 not a twin .
Sold my Harley due to ludicrousl bike and parts prices that’s the problem.😐👍
@joebloggs1583 don’t lie you miss it tho
NO DIFFERFENT FROM BMW OR TRIUMPH.
You are right about people keeping their old bikes. Because of costs.
Forget HD I bought a 2017 Indian Springfield Motorcycle and I love it
I was invited to my local H-D dealer for the launch of a couple of CVOs, one of which was over 55 grand...not one of us at the launch could afford one. I've said for years that H-D should have a parts manufacturing side of the business for all their older models going back to Flatheads as loads of their older models are still running. I'd rather buy genuine parts for my older H-Ds than aftermarket parts. Good video, thanks.
My only reply is why would I buy parts for "legacy" models from H-D when they won't/can't provide service. If the average person is getting their older motorcycle serviced at an independent shop then, it stands to reason, that they would get parts ordered by (or recommended by) said independent.
its o k to think that way i do as well but think of the cost of those part sitting on a shelf not knowing how many will sell and when that is a lot of money sitting there this why any thing you want for anything has to ordered they dont want to be stuck with unsold inventory Harley is already calling my ten year old c v o obsolete i am already waiting two weeks for a simple switch and it cost $350,00 dollars
@hijodelantorchanunya1572 that's where I differ from "the average person" as I do all the work on my bikes be it servicing or rebuilds. When I could get genuine parts I always used them and as they dried up I would use VTwin or similar. If H-D started to make parts again for there older machines I would buy from them. It's all down to personal preference but for me I will always buy the genuine part first for my bikes and cars but if not available I will buy aftermarket. Again it's down to personal preference if you go to a dealer or independent repairer if you can't or won't work on your own machines. I remember buying an aftermarket steering pump for my Transit, 5 of them in a row failed within hours or days of fitting. When I complained about the junk this supplier was selling me I was then told they do supply a better quality pump but as folk normally go for the cheap one they don't normally offer it. Once I installed the dearer pump it worked perfectly and is still working.
Isn’t the current situation resulting from the hype for motorcycles that popped up during covid when soo many motorcycles have been sold, and now the market is totally saturated of motorcycles on the second hand market, plus manufacturers (including new low cost ones) producing way too many motorcycles... there are currently so much more sellers than buyers, we know what happens then.... KTM had 130.000 motorcycles not sold.... how the hell have they been producing so blindly...?
lots of used bikes in the market is good for us you can buy the bike you like for alot less money at the time i bought my cvo used with 16.000km and two years old i paid $34,000 instead of $55,000 for a brand new one and the new 2025 cvo has a list of 65,000 plus fees and taxes to pay 70,000 for any bike is insane!!! MR ZEITZ wants to sell less bikes for more money and thats a bad plan
I ride a honda shadow myself. about 52K miles on it, still riding strong like the day I bought it new at around $8K. Over the last 4 years I saw the increase just in the service labor rate at the dealership jump from $75-$145/hr. for a service that takes about 5 hours, barring any unexpected problems, that's a lot of money just in the service labor cost not to mention parts (and those currently are still fairly affordable. . .for honda's anyway). And with the decrease in tech experience and quality of service (leaving bolts unfastened, tubes disconnected, etc) it's forced me to learn how to maintain and service my own bike just out of my own safety concerns. As more people revert back to doing not only the maintenance on their rides with the intention of keeping them for longer and keeping them running, it's also an attempt to prevent from having to buy a brand new bike, especially since most shops won't service bikes past 10 years old. The amount of money i'm saving and the experience i'm gaining in knowledge of my own bike, I literally can afford to pay for any mistakes i make in learning, and not make them again.
Same here vulcan 1500 purrs at 90k and performing 100times better then HD
As an older millennial I see a lot of Royal Enfields, Triumphs, the Husky ‘Pilen bikes, getting my peers into biking. The more affordable the better.
But, honestly, drivers are so distracted, in extremely insulated cars; Many are giving up on biking.
Yep, I say off the hwys, I ride backroads and city riding...texting idiots are everywhere I look!
Yes, I am one of them not to buy a New HD Bike since the one I have does the job. New bike are very expensive, smaller bikes are horrible and small fuel tank, the larger bikes are like an Abram Tank in Traffic / City
Mistake to buy a HD in the first place.... Enjoy the crap.
The five HD dealerships within 68 miles of me seem to sell more used bikes and “T” shirts these days…
Harley davidson lost my respect when a branch closed down, leaving me 300 pounds down and no parts.
Love the motorcycles, but Harley davidson just doesn't care about their customers 👍🏻😎
If Harley's bikes performed commensurate with their prices, they would sell. But they don't, not even close. In the meantime Ducati and MV Agusta are selling every premium high-performance bike they can build.
Things are going very well for the HD CEO :
Harley-Davidson Inc. chairman, president and CEO Jochen Zeitz more than doubled his reported compensation to $43.3 million in 2022, but $32 million of that is the accounting value for stock awards that depend on the company achieving share-price thresholds in future years.
F Jochen the golf pro.
Here in the States it's not understood how shabby our economy has become. Wow, Black Friday sales are up! Yep, on credit cards I'll wager.
I bought a harley in 1997 and still run it. The only thing that's ever gone wrong was the gear change spring broke a long time back. Went to the dealership and bought a new spring for around £4.50 and did the fix with a maintenance manual and the help of a friend who was good at mechanics .That spring was probably the cheapest thing in the shop 😅
Would love to know what the CEO and 9 Board members make in combined salaries. Staggering. After they ruin the company they just move on with their golden parachutes and ruin another brand. Refusing to work on product that is 10 years old (planned obsolesents) doesnt help.
Look at it like this: why would you sell your Harley, which you've probably spent a large amount of money on to get it running reliable, and buy a new Harley, when the only progression Harley seems to have made is in hitching their prices. It would mean shelling out a lot of money for a bike that you then have to shell out even more money on to get it running reliable. For Harley owners it makes far more sense to stick with your present bike and as said in the video: new buyers simply can't afford a new Harley.
Explain shelling money out to make the bike reliable? My 3 stock Harley's. Have been very reliable.And I haven't shelled any money out unless I wanted to put options on the bike. So please explain to me what you're talking about, having to shell money out to make it reliable?
Another person who hasn't owned a Harley Davidson, (I always include Mr Davidson,) and who probably doesn't even ride spewing out the same old crap. "They're unreliable" is a bunch of bull. The three I've owned before and my current '07 Road King have been 100% reliable.
If you don't ride, you don't know.
Indian and Triumph have better retro appeal, and Honda for break-new-ground cruisers and touring. Moto Guzzi and Yamaha dabbling in both retro and new. Plus weird one-offs that peel people away from absolute brand loyalty like the Ducati Diavel. Meanwhile ADV and sports bikes continue to flow out the doors of dealerships.
I mean, in the end the problem is that Harley is like fine china and cable TV. It's not bad. It just has an appeal skewed toward people who were alive to remember the heyday and cultural relevance, plus random younger folk with nostalgia for a time before they were born. Every five years or so they push to skew younger, but it's had limited success. It's not a motorcycle problem at all. It's a long term generational identity issue that all companies with a strong brand eventually faces if they last long enough.
Who knows? Vinyl records are making a comeback. Stuff either exits off the stage of relevance or finds a new moment in the spotlight.
Good comment.
Good comment. Don't you mean to say one-OF-a-kind or one OF one, NOT one-OFF target? Just pointing that extra F out so you can correct your 1st paragraph before it's too late!
Well said! Especially at appr. 7:00 where You says "...stick with what we got"! That's what matters in the Harley world nowadays. My 2010 Fatboy have taken me through most of Europe and will continue doing so. If repair is called for...well just do it. But Harley forever stands for me.
Aloha I bought my first HOG shinning shoes at the airport! That was in 1965. I am 74 and still ride a Hog,but nit a new one. I can not dish out the $40K price tag for a product made in another country! The dealers will ,not work on older bikes because they want to sell you new bike. I still ride a Hog but nit a new one. God bless and merry Christmas 🎄
Fair comments , sign of the times , all of my 5 HDS have all been from within the used market , I'd never buy new and this won't change.
As an aside I've never had a problem with the used ones I've bought and sold , but back to the point , the market is collapsing. Also up here, I saw recently the Indian dealer in Edinburgh ( Saltire ) has also gone under so it's across the board. Bad times .
Harley prices are way too expensive. I end up buying a BMW R18. In fact two of them because I got $3.5k discount on one and 4K off on the other one. One is Roctane and the other 100 year edition. Plus 0%APR.
My son wanted to get a new Harley sportster S, but couldn’t even negotiate $1k off and APR was 9% so he went and bought a BMW R12 NineT scrambler with 0% APR and was able to save $6.5k off only because it was a demo bike with 300 miles on it.
We both realized how amazing these BMW machines are and absolutely not going back to the Harley brand.
Love love love my BMW bikes.
Dealer charges 500. For new rear tire and tube,2 months out of warranty voltage regulator needed replacement 1 hour to diagnosis and another hour to install,took me 4 minutes to replace and aftermarket part was half the price,terrible service and ridiculous prices for. Everything, im done
The economy dictates how many dealers stay open
A number of Harley Davidson dealers have gone under by me. And I'm in the Chicago market. A huge market for just about anything.
None of them, not one, offered a sale on their motorcycles. Some didn't announce that they were going under, until the very last day.
Help a customer out? Ain't happening. The remaining dealers got their stock. Harley Davidson can go under for all i care. They don't care about their customers. Karma is real.
We can get a sub 1000 cc really nice bikes for around 10 - 12k€ new (Triumph, Kawasaki, etc). If HD comes and kills the only bike that was close enough, then I just scratch them off the list. The 883 was always cool - somehow they failed to make enough money with them.
Apparently RE is working on 750 engine bikes. Now I don't expect them to be announced anytime soon, but they keep moving up the ladder and will attract more and more customers.
I currently have a 2008 fxcwc in perfect condition. it's an everyday rider. I have even rode it back and forth from Gulfport ms to Clearwater fl 3 times since Halloween. I love the bike my wife bought for my birthday in March 2024. I have upgraded a lot of parts and performance and have not once used a Harley Davidson part. I have actually bought some Harley boots and a couple of jackets. But, there are too many part options that are better and less expensive than HD parts. Plus I do all my own wrenching. I can not pay a man to do something that i can do. The only thing I have a service location do is mount and balance tires. I do use the new HD heavy gear fluid in my primary. But amsoil in engine and amsoil vtwin transmission fluid in transmission. I will never use any other oil. I had some top end noise using everything, and then using vtwin 20/50 amsoil, it vanished in less than 100 miles
65 yo American 🇺🇸 Bought my 1st H-D in 1981 . Last Harley - Davidson in 2005 . Love my Twin Cam 88 Road King 🥰 . Don’t want and don’t need a new motorcycle . H-D has lost its way . I’m riding my beloved Road 👑 King into the dust bin of history 🪦 😵
I decided to buy a 1996 Dyna, was looking at later models,, however , my thinking led me to look at old Evo’s. While I could think of at least 20 other bikes that would beat it in every way, I absolutely love this thing,, I can highly recommend them, as long as you like vibration, carburation, doing your own maintenance, average handling(better than I thought it would be) and enough grunt to enjoy,, then I truly have come to believe them to be a good bike. Cheap too. So I’m hoping they do develop a parts centred focus. Or perhaps,, building these old lumps of Evo again??? Surely they’d be cheap to build?? Though exhaust emissions may be a challenge. ??
The easy thing to do... make a deal with Royal Enfield, to sell those parts and bikes at HD dealerships in the USA (for example). It would save the dealerships, and get young riders around their "dream bikes". As for HD building bikes... it's probably better for them to sell each bike "custom" for those that can afford them.
I have a 1999 FXDL.
Obsolete parts are getting more common.
Some of the outsourced imperial measurements have been lost in translation.
0.75mm isn't 0.025".
Wouldn't recommend it to anyone but things really are different on an older Harley.
No plans on going to efi.
There is a huge market for small and mid size bikes. Many do not want to slug around on a 800+ pound motorcycle. Harley is missing out on the majority of motorcycle riders.
I got caught up in the fad and rode Harley for many years. What irritated me was when I went to the Harley dealer to get OEM replacement parts. They are sold at a very steep price. The package the parts are in says Harley Davidson in large print, and made in China in very small print. You do realize those cheap low quality parts are what Harley used to build the bike in the first place. You can get the exact part sold under a aftermarket brand for often half the price.
This is my frustration with Harley Davidson. I ride a BMW now.
Always loved Harleys, thought I'd own one someday . . . but I don't want to slug around on an 800 pound bike that handles and stops not very well. I bought a MT-09 and love the bike. It's a 420 pound traffic master. Handles and stops with precision . . .
You could swap out the name “Harley Davidson” with so many other brands right now and still have for the most part an accurate relevant rant.
“KTM”, “Jaguar”, “Nissan”, “Stelantis” all are currently very usable for this rant.
So many others will soon be in the limelight…
Not unique to HD…
Customers and companies who increased their debt during low interest rates are all suffering with high inflation and interest rates.
Nothing new, just the scope.
They’re not actually that expensive when you realize how much they were in the 90’s based on income. In 1995 a Dyna convertible sold for $10,991.00 before tax and based on inflation calculator that’s around $22,765.51 in today’s money. Also the 95 Dyna came with the Evolution 80inch v-twin which made around which made around 50 bhp and 65 lbs
Now technology and performance is pretty good
You can get these bikes for equal or less
$22,765.51
Softail Standard $14,999
Street Bob $16,999
Low Rider s $19,999
Low Rider st $23,399
All of these bikes make way more power and if you buy the cheaper bike and can it you will have almost tripled the power of the original.
If you think of value and depreciation I would also buy Harley 1995 dynas with decent miles still go for $5-$10k which means in 30 years at a minimum that Bike has held 50% of its value..
I think you average person doesn’t ride in general and most people don’t have disposable income.. the average person buys a Honda Grom.. or a Royal Enfield.. because they are throw away bikes.
I spent the first half of September on holiday in Los Angeles and, of course, did all the usual touristy things including Hollywood Boulevard. The Hollywood Harley-Davidson dealership is located opposite the Chinese Theatre. It doesn't sell bikes, only apparel and other branded merch. If you want a t-shirt or a leather jacket or a bandana, you're spoilt for choice but if you want an actual motorcycle, you're out of luck.
I know that there are several Harley dealerships in LA and the surrounding area that do sell bikes, including Laidlaw's which I used to follow on RUclips back about 7-8 years ago, however things aren't rosy even in So Cal. Los Angeles Harley-Davidson, located in Fullerton, closed its doors for good just six weeks ago on 31st October.
The problem is that Harleys aren't products built or aimed at the motorcyclist market any more and haven't been for decades. They're Veblen goods like Rolex watches or Ferraris and Lambos; look at me goods like designer handbags; bling on wheels with a touch of outlaw biker menace; lifestyle products for chavs and yuppies who want to shove their wealth in your face. Just look at the people who go to Sturgis and Daytona, their biggest annual rallies.
I just have a feeling that a lot of companies are in trouble not just H.D. artic cat stopped skidoos, bombardier has to get help from their government. A lot of food chains closing down and retail stores. The boom is over we all over the world are being squeezed for all we have. The writing is on the wall!
This means that existing Harley Davidsons will rise up in their worth, I have a beautiful 2003 Heritage Softail Classic, Black & silver 100th anniversary model, I already see these '03 anniversary models going up! $$$
They haven't made bikes, just 2-wheeled Buicks.
My Sportster is far far from a Buick. It is also a very good low maintenance motorcycle.
@@ironcast hooray!
That’s simply stupid. Their primary value is in their brand recognition and the community they produce. It allows them to sell bikes at a premium. No one cares about individual parts.
In 2007 I did buy a Electra Ultra Screaming Eagle new. It was a complete piece of junk. Broke down on the highway before even reaching 10.000 km, cylinders leaking oil. Several times just refused to start. The after sales completely useless. I will never ever own a Harley Davidson again. Never!
Shocking. Our local dealer ( in a rural part of central Germany) closed down with hardly any notice.. things are getting worse indeed …
People can NOT afford to pay these absolutely outrageous prices for those bikes. It's that simple.
I think you are on the right path. They are just too expensive. I think for years the company has had the same customers over and over again every year or two. Used bike prices had dropped. They have 24 models on the floor with less that 500 miles on it for 8k less than new. Those customers can't afford to come back. Not yet anyway.
I live in Atlantic Canada(New Brunswick) We had a Harley Dealership in the Miramichi for decades, now closed. Another one in Moncton, 'Toys For Big Boys' also around for almost 50 years. Toys also sells Honda and KTM. They bought land next to their dealership a few years ago for expansion, but from what I understand, Harley Davidson demanded a separate Dealership for its Bikes. The owner was basically forced to spend millions to open another dealership, as per Harley Davidson specs or lose his dealership. I believe this is the reason many small Dealerships, that also sold other brands, are being forced to shut down unless they spend huge amounts of money on new and separate Dealerships?
a lot of people don't have the money anymore to buy a expensive car or motorcycle it's all over the world
in the US there is a price adder for bikes going back to the 80's from $4000-6000. I can go to a favored independent dealership and get it for significantly less with a full mechanic staff.
Saw this on an 90's Electraglide, but when going to independent shops the price was up to 2.5X less for similar mileage.
West Coast HD Glasgow seem to be rushed off its feet. There is always events on throughout the year. During biking season the bike nights are always mobbed. Why?... because its for everyone regardless of what type of bike you are riding. If you alienate people what do you expect when your business goes bust. Service dept are brilliant. Love the loyalty scheme which allows you to build up your points so you can then use them to buy things in the clothing and merch dept. I just bought a new helmet with my loyalty points as I had my 2 bikes in for upgrades and service.
Bike sales wise, if you want a bike there you'd better be quick. By the time you decide that's the bike you want, its usually gone in about 5 mins, particularly over the weekend. New bike sales don't seem to be an issue. Chap came in and traded his freewheeler trike and bought the 40k tri glide. People seem to come from all over the world. Another guy came all the way over from the states just so he could have a West Coast t-shirt!
Personally I have been treated with dignity and respect. Being disabled that means a lot to me.
Prices for servicing ect, seem to level peg with everyone else. Actually working out cheaper than other places.
Doesn't seem to matter what bike you are riding everyone's welcome at any time.
At 20 years old, I bought a brand new Electroglide, on a landscapers pay. This was 1980. If they can make their bikes that affordable again, they can be saved. Otherwise, there aren't enough doctor and lawyer weekend warriors to buy their ridiculously expensive bikes. The dealership that I worked at 30 years ago just closed its doors this past summer. Sad.
I think I can add some light here.
The economy is squeezing many people most middle-class people and working-class people which is 80% of those who still work are literally having a hard time filling their trucks with 100.00 tank of diesel or gasoline their SUV with a $50 or $70 tank full.
Not to mention groceries insanely High insurance etc.
We just literally don't have enough room for an optional 20 or 30,000 toy, which to everybody but a daily commuter a motorcycle is usually a fancy toy or perhaps a summertime passion.
The only people I know well healed enough to spend 20 or 30 grand on a fancy Harley or other high-end motorcycle are retirees who have a strong investment portfolio I eat plenty of money and are not price-sensitive problem is every one of them I know is 60 plus years old and they're not beginning writing and if they're already a motorcycle rider they already have motorcycles in their garage maybe several of them and the idea of them being somehow attracted to a garish full dress highly loaded and also questionably reliable boutique motorcycle is a fantasy they're just literally are not enough of those people around to sell motorcycles to.
Our local Harley dealer here in East Texas and every city above 10,000 people has a Harley dealer most of them do have two dozen three dozen bikes out front which they probably sell very few of perhaps a couple of weeks in this very challenged economy.
I'm a blue collar business owner and have to watch my savings and spending and I bought a used Suzuki V-Strom motorcycle in perfect condition ironically it was a trade-in at a Harley dealer and I got it out the door from the man who bought it wholesale from the Harley dealer for 3600 I've been riding it every single day just about for 2 years now and it's in perfect running order and checks all my boxes for literally one fourth of the cheapest Harley or maybe 1/8 of a fancy Harley.
Also Harley has painted themselves into the corner by only offering cruisers they literally have nothing to offer the dirt bike crowd the sportbike crowd or the ATV crowd which means they are super deep in only one segment of the market and frankly that's a market is aficionados are dying more and more everyday or getting so decrepit and with old age they cannot ride any longer !
I'm not surprised at all this. I test rode an 1100 Sportser about 12 yrs ago at Albury NS W,Australia. I asked what my Kawasaki 900 was worth as trade in and was told, we don't trade in, sell your own. Ok see later..I am nearly 80 yrs and haver never met a car or bike dealer that didn't do trade ins....
No, Harley Davidson does not produce motorcycles. They produce flat black computers.
That's pretty funny!
I had a conversation with one of the H-D UK marketing team at Motorcycle Live about my concern regarding dealerships closing and broached the idea of them introducing smaller affordable bikes. I was somewhat surprised by the response: "Ferrari don't do that" so you can see that H-D see themselves as a premium brand and feel that they'll survive, time will tell.
A ole mate of mine had a BMW K75 that needed some work done to it , so he took it into probably one of the oldest BMW DEALERS in AUSTRALIA to be looked at . The service manager said to him , no use bringing that bike here for repairs mate , its older than all of the technicians , and they wouldn't know where to start , you will have to take it to an old school BMW MECHANIC , he just laughed at them .
Have owned 7 harleys,last was 22 heritage 114 bought new for 25,000,added 4000. In extras,after two years and 7000 miles was told by dealer my bike is worth 11,000. With maintenance I spent 10,000 per year to own,traded for new honda,will never buy harley again.
You are so right, stopping having a cheaper models is ridiculous and they could make an awesome single cylinder lightweight Harley out of a V twin engine making it a very lightweight speedster for around towns and traffic.
HD started off making very good lightweight motorcycles and turned into a heavy overweight and not monetising with the times with modern designs, etc.
Dealerships cannot survive just having stock on the floor that’s not moving because people are not interested or do not have the money to purchase.
Is far more reliable bikes available on the market from other brands with a lighter weight and easier to handle around cities?
HD are awesome long long straight roads and that’s about it .
I worked at the Milwaukee plant installation putting in conveyor line. A friend of mine had to have his H.D. motor rebuild 3 timès. Finally said enough is enough and has it for sale! Want one?
As a Harley Ultra Limited owner I took a ride on a Goldwing, which costs roughly the same. I also took a ride on an Indian, which also costs roughly the same. Both bikes were so superior to my HD in all respects that I’ve now sold my HD and, next spring, will buy either the Goldwing or the Indian. I haven’t made my mind up yet which one… but never again a Harley.
The BMW brand has some cruisers that should embarrass Harley as well
You won't be missed.
@@thejerseyj5479great attitude, speaks volumes.....
@ Hey my friend, we’re all motorcyclists here, we all appreciate the machines and the experience we share. I keep two bikes in my garage and I change one of them each year. Generally I try a different manufacturer’s model each time. I’ve done this for more than thirty years and never, for instance, sell a Honda and buy another Honda, though I have owned many Hondas over that time. As my career and life experience have developed I eventually found myself able to afford a New Harley UL and if I am honest, I have been very much disappointed with the experience. They have fallen well behind the market with their engineering. So, I’ve just sold my Harley and I’ll probably buy a Honda next, though I am seriously considering a Voge, which is a model I’ve never owned before. Why one earth do you find this upsetting? This is a hobby, it’s not life or death!
They do have nice leather jackets, and gloves. I bought several clothes of the HD brand. Good stuff.
Harley Davidson is packaged deal! Buy your bike and get those parts!!! Yup stay tuned! Harley has always been the most customizable bike in history!
Car dealerships buying them up and some changes suck!
All my friends are buying e-bikes for $1500 - $3000, and everyone purchased was ridden , and now broken , and not running ! All my friends have had to order parts and still waiting! So much for global products and parts !!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
No one is going to buy parts from H-D when there are so many aftermarket parts suppliers manufacturing superior parts to OE
LIND Harley-Davidson in Reading closes and 1HD rises out of their ashes 3 miles down the road
Support your local independent 👍
Air cooled sportster should've gotten a head cooled version like the new M8 along with the high performance Buell designed internals. High torque engines with great sounds rule. Design water cooled heads that can be retrofitted. Makes sense to me
I totally agree with the comment that HD needs to sell a different type of motorcycles that are affordable by those that want a Harley for sure. Any true Harley fan should be able to understand that in order for HD to stay in the market needs to sell bikes period. If they can't sell bikes they will as we are seeing now losing tons of money which is closing dealerships and before too long the company as well possibly. One of HD's biggest mistake I feel was the announcement of the Bronx then last second scrap it which was crazy because so many people were wanting to see it and probably buy it. The other thing that's starting to affect HD in a negative way is the dealership closings because that is a buying factor for a lot of riders as to how far or short of a distance there is if there was issues or for services to be done on the bikes. I know for me returning from Strugis and having the engine having issues in the middle of south dakota I had to decide which way to go which was continue to the next dealer because the only two closest dealerships were about the same distance from where I was and I was out of the range for free towing to the dealership so I went towards the one closest to my fathers place. So every move they keep doing right now they may think is saving them money may in fact be costing them even more in the long run instead. good video though over all and crazy that there's been so many dealers there in the UK closing. I know the riders in the Atlanta,GA area just lost another dealership last weekend which now really limits their options for service and repair issues.
Harley tried a budget with the 500 cc model and it never sold. The 2025 Street Bob with the 117 engine may be there savior. I also like the Indian Scout 60. Harley Financing should offer low interest rates for all. Their insurance company is half of other companies. Discount the additional products.
They need to go back to basic air-cooled light weight low-cost bikes like the Sportster and FXR/Dyna which built Harley.
Overpriced poser bike for overweight lawyers.
This is interesting what you say about dealers closing down . In Melbourne Australia there is 4 Harley Dealers . 3 are owned by one company that owns dealerships of every other brand . Harley management have made bad decissions on what bikes they promote and support . In 2019 I brought my first New Harley a Softail Slim did 97000kms on that bike with only one gearbox problem that dealership tried to blame me for when it was a well known for. Was fixed under warranty but made me buy my next new Harley at a dealership owned bya different company . A 2023 Nightster Special great bike to ride but Harley Davidson Australia DO NOT PROMOTE or SUPPORT this motorcycle . This bike has been off the road now for 10 weeks over a Electicial problem as they keep no parts in Australia for this bike it could take 6 weeks to get a BCM . they are not even sure thar is the problem . This year I brought a 23.5 CVO Roadglide secondhand from the first Dealership after a change of Management and half the staff at the shop . the CVO with the 121VVT is a awesome bike . The Melbourne Dealerships are all doing well . I know of many people buying the new model touring bikes . You are correct that Harley Davidson need to Listen and build bikes people need and want . They Finally Built the new Touring model the way customers have wanted them for years . The Bronx was a missed opportunity . Here is a Bike I think they should have built instead of the X series of Bikes . A 500cc or 660cc version on the base model Nightster would be a great bike to attact new rides to the brand . Harley Davidson CEO needs to go .
This is what happens when you make the same bike over and over again there's only so many people that want to ride a cruiser
They discontinued their biggest seller, the Iron 1200 sporty, stupid decision.
With out extended loans no one would be able to buy most bikes and nearly all cars. It might be my computer but it looks like it’s so cold in your office that we can see your breath.
Heating's expensive too....
I think your analysis is spot on. The unresponsiveness of HD leadership to customer complaints about criminal practices by some dealerships going back at least five years is a clear predictor that HD is doomed. It takes a real gaggle of incompetent morons to accomplish the destruction of a company whose main product essentially sells itself.
Keep up the good work. I look forward to your videos everyday.👍
Yes, whatever you think of 'the Harley thing', it will nonetheless be a loss to have such a long-standing brand disappear. Not a good sign for the future of motorcycling. I went for an organised ride recently, here in rural South Australia, with about ten others, and H D were the most popular brand represented. But none of them were very recent models - the newest looking one was actually a Kawasaki which looked almost more like a Harley Electra Glide than an actual Harley!
Most of the owners, like me, were 'older', and I suspect represented the group you referred to who are 'keeping their older models'. I guess if your offerings are 'steeped in history and tradition', there is less incentive to upgrade to a later model. The emission laws are constantly moving along, and of course these make it harder for these earlier style engines to survive. Air-cooled engines are dying out in the face of these laws, and becoming harder to get passed. Fuel efficiency, emissions and noise issues harder to overcome with the earlier technology.
The other thing, aside from the economic difficulties so many nations are facing (in the setting of post-COVID inflation) is the proliferation of alternative makes offering the older-style bikes, like the Triumphs, Royal Enfields and the like. These are what the girls are riding, instead of a Sportster, while their partners keep their older model 'big bore' Harley. So I guess it's a function of emission laws, the type of bikes Harley sell, economic difficulties, and the ageing demographic that buy these things. And yes - the buy-in cost of joining the Harley owners...
The arrival of cheaper alternatives from China and India are eating into that market (and their quality is improving while the price remains low) as is the move by many riders (me too) over to adventure-style bikes, as more seek their riding solitude on dirt roads, away from traffic, trucks, police, etc. Yes, Harley offers their Pan-American in that market, but many seek something a bit smaller and lighter as they age. More Transalps and CFMotos showing up at our Sunday coffee gatherings, whereas I have never seen a Pan American in real life. But it is concerning that two brands - KTM and Harley - seem to be falling over at the same time.
i have 6 dealerships with in 200 km of my house but who knows how long they might be around my local dealer ship is very large full of new bikes and merch and have been around for over 80 years and they seem to survive but the prices are getting out of reach
HD’s have never been cheap, it’s a cost of living issue in the UK, disposable income is at a premium and lifestyle brands are going to struggle.
I'm 62 and riding from 16 years - the evolution of motorcycling has evolved from affordable practical functional transport (esp if living in a big city) to expensive toys - toys used for different "fun" activities from cafe type riding to adventure to weekend rides - but with toys there is only so much surplus money at whatever age group - sadly with the cost of living crisis - high inflation + the serious additional costs of obtaining a motorcycle licence over a car licence + higher insurance costs for motorcycles etc the toy is becoming ever more expensive - here Royal Enfield have brilliantly positioned themselves at a good price point + revamped their styles to accommodate various tastes from sport to cruiser to scrambler etc - a clever marketing marriage between great price + style with overall reasonable quality/finishes - the winner here is a motorcycle company which sees this marketing opportunity - CF Moto is another success - people still buy toys - find the sweet spot between price/toy appeal and your motorcycle will sell against the ever changing economic vicissitudes
I’m a 77yr old mechanic / rider in St Louis MO USA with a 2011 Heratige Softail Classic and 2009/ 1200 Custom Sporster. I got rid of my Heratige Softail Classic and kept the Sporster. I bought a Royal Enfield Super Meteor 650 and couldn’t be happier. Harley has gone the way of Boeing, profit first screw the rest of us. PS an oil and filter change heir at a dealer cost $238.00 dollars, what a F ing ripoff.
They can’t sell the volume that they are currently geared to build. It’s going to take them time to reset the factories to a lower volume.
One thing they counted on for sales was selling/financing bikes that people couldn’t afford. There loan defaults are outta control.
Jocelyn Zeitz set a high price point on the bikes before slimming down the factory production.
They (dealerships) seem to be doing fine in both cz and es. They were never too many to begin with anyway.
That said… I keep saying the same thing: they gotta give the “street bob - softail standard” treatment to all models (a not blacked out, 107, affordable version of everything ). Not trying to to become more premium. People are short of money. It ain’t rocket science 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe if Harley Davidson made retro bikes, like Royal Enfield, I think people would be more interested. The bikes they make these days look like they came out of a Cornflakes packet.
Brands Like CF Moto is crushing Harley Davidson also people are moving to dual sport and similar machines. Harley is so inflexible the old Customer are getting older and the brand does not attract the younger buyer. I ride an Indian Scout and just purchased a CF Moto as well to go back to some off road riding at 65 it makes sense for me.
December 2024 was our biggest sales month for over a year with 25 new bikes sold and delivered and 22 used bikes sold and delivered so don’t know what’s happening overseas
Successful companies change with the times. The most successful anticipate trends and adjust strategy to outdo competitors. We'll find out soon enough if Harley Davidson is that sort of company.
Fartley Wokinson and Wokuar can only sell postcards and shields with writing „In memory of…“
I still dig riding my LRS 117. Let HD become a parts co. IDC. One comment said over 30k for a bike is nuts, but 110k for a pieced together so called ford pickup is ok. Whatever makes you happy. :49, maybe you should turn the heater up. A bit chilly in there.
I still recall the prior CEO Levatich who had the “More roads to Harley” strategy to expand into more markets with bikes at a lower price point. And he was pretty much ousted… Sure they made purists happy in the short term, but I feel it was a missed opportunity for growth…
HD & Indian aim at a certain customer base due to the current economy this has slowed down dramatically. Sales worldwide are still increasing as a Whole but well below the predicted sales targets. Areas of the World are still successful in this market. Several issues compounded have caused a problem with sales, price, design, forward planning from the factory and quality of service. For a high end brand a lot of dealers fall short of that service experience but I think that is just the way things are in the UK in general. The main problem is the cost of insurance for new riders the average age of riders has gone from 42 to 54. I feel America will start recovering with the new President but I fear here we are about to see more closures of businesses than ever before.
I read somewhere Suzuki is going to drop dealerships and have "showrooms" and you can view but order online ,not sure about servicing ,maybe contractors? times are changing
Like many brands, HD are mostly bought by old blokes, many of whom are getting too old to ride a big, heavy bike, or who are passing away. I never see many young people riding (or being able to afford) HD bikes. I think the whole motorcycle industry is in for a tough time over the next decade or so.
New models look nice and decent engine upgrades, for the price